36th Parliament, 1st Session
EDITED HANSARD • NUMBER 121
CONTENTS
Friday, June 12, 1998
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | GOVERNMENT ORDERS
|
1005
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | CANADIAN TRANSPORTATION ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION AND SAFETY
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Bill S-2. Committee of the whole
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Paul DeVillers |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Amendment
|
1010
1015
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Motion for concurrence
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. David M. Collenette |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Third reading
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. David M. Collenette |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Lee Morrison |
1020
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Michel Guimond |
1025
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Ms. Angela Vautour |
1030
1035
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Charlie Power |
1040
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | NATIONAL PARKS ACT
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Bill C-38. Third reading
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Fred Mifflin |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Andy Mitchell |
1045
1050
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Keith Martin |
1055
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS
|
1100
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | SMALL BUSINESS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Carmen Provenzano |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | BILL C-397
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Eric Lowther |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | THE ENVIRONMENT
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Charles Caccia |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Andrew Telegdi |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Ms. Jean Augustine |
1105
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | GOVERNMENT SPENDING
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Lee Morrison |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | R-2000 PROGRAM
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Roy Cullen |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | ABITIBI
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Pierre Brien |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | CANADIAN CENTRE FOR EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Ms. Beth Phinney |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | THE SENATE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Derrek Konrad |
1110
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | THE SENATE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Steve Mahoney |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | FIREFIGHTERS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Rick Laliberte |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | CHIAPAS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mrs. Maud Debien |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | HOUSE OF COMMONS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Peter Adams |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | YOUTH UNEMPLOYMENT
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Gilles Bernier |
1115
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | ACCUEIL BONNEAU
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Denis Coderre |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | LIBERAL PARTY
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Ken Epp |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | NATIONAL DEFENCE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Miss Deborah Grey |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Herb Gray |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Miss Deborah Grey |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Herb Gray |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Miss Deborah Grey |
1120
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Herb Gray |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Leon E. Benoit |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Herb Gray |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Leon E. Benoit |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Herb Gray |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | CANADA INFORMATION OFFICE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Alfonso Gagliano |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Alfonso Gagliano |
1125
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Stéphane Bergeron |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Alfonso Gagliano |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Stéphane Bergeron |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Alfonso Gagliano |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | THE ATLANTIC GROUNDFISH STRATEGY
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Bill Blaikie |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Fred Mifflin |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Peter Stoffer |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Fred Mifflin |
1130
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | THE ECONOMY
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Scott Brison |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Tony Valeri |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Scott Brison |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Herb Gray |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | NATIONAL DEFENCE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Art Hanger |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Herb Gray |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Art Hanger |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Herb Gray |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | ATLANTIC GROUNDFISH STRATEGY
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Yvan Bernier |
1135
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Fred Mifflin |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Yvan Bernier |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Fred Mifflin |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Mike Scott |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Jane Stewart |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Mike Scott |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Jane Stewart |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | CONTRABAND TOBACCO
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Yvan Loubier |
1140
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Tony Valeri |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Yvan Loubier |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Tony Valeri |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Jack Ramsay |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Marcel Massé |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Jake E. Hoeppner |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Marcel Massé |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | SCRAPIE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Ms. Hélène Alarie |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Gilbert Normand |
1145
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | FOREIGN AFFAIRS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Ted McWhinney |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | FISHERIES
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. John Duncan |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Wayne Easter |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. John Reynolds |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Wayne Easter |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Ms. Angela Vautour |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Alfonso Gagliano |
1150
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | MEXICO
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Dick Proctor |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. David Kilgour |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | YEAR 2000 PROBLEM
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Jim Jones |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Walt Lastewka |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Jim Jones |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Ronald J. Duhamel |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | YOUTH EMPLOYMENT
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. John McKay |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Marcel Massé |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Darrel Stinson |
1155
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Jane Stewart |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | HOUSING CONSTRUCTION IN NUNAVIK
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Claude Bachand |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Jane Stewart |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Gordon Earle |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Jane Stewart |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | POSTAL SERVICE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Mark Muise |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Alfonso Gagliano |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | THE SENATE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Rob Anders |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Herb Gray |
1200
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | JEAN-LESAGE AIRPORT IN SAINTE-FOY
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Michel Guimond |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. David M. Collenette |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | ATLANTIC GROUNDFISH STRATEGY
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Yvon Godin |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Fred Mifflin |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | INDIVIDUAL MEMBER'S EXPENDITURES
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO PETITIONS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Peter Adams |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Finance
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Maurizio Bevilacqua |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | FEDERAL LAW-CIVIL LAW HARMONIZATION ACT, NO. 1
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Bill C-50. Introduction and first reading
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Fred Mifflin |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | CRIMINAL CODE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Bill C-51. Introduction and first reading
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Marcel Massé |
1205
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | BANK ACT
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Bill C-428. Introduction and first reading
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Réal Ménard |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Don Boudria |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Motion No. 12
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | PETITIONS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Young Offenders Act
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Peter MacKay |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Marriage
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Peter MacKay |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Gun Control
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. John Duncan |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Marriage
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. John Duncan |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Copyright
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay |
1210
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | The Senate
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Bill Blaikie |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Multilateral Agreement on Investment
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Bill Blaikie |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Copyright Board
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. John McKay |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Tobacco Act
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Charlie Power |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Prostitution
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Eric Lowther |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Justice
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Pierre Brien |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Multilateral Agreement on Investment
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. John Solomon |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Marriage
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Andrew Telegdi |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Mike Scott |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Employment Insurance
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Claude Bachand |
1215
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Criminal Code
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Gordon Earle |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Marriage
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Darrel Stinson |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Middle East
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Dick Proctor |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Immigration
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Dick Proctor |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Multilateral Agreement on Investment
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Dick Proctor |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Peter Adams |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Peter Adams |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Harbance Singh Dhaliwal |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Don Boudria |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Motion
|
1220
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Fisheries and Oceans
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Peter Adams |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Motion
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Public Accounts
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Peter Adams |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Motion
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | GOVERNMENT ORDERS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | NATIONAL PARKS ACT
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Bill C-38. Third reading
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Mark Muise |
1225
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Rick Laliberte |
1230
1235
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Citizenship and Immigration
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Peter Adams |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Motion
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | GOVERNMENT ORDERS
|
1240
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | NATIONAL PARKS ACT
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Bill C-38 Third reading
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay |
1245
1250
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Lee Morrison |
1255
1300
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Rick Laliberte |
1305
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Deepak Obhrai |
1310
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Hon. Don Boudria |
1315
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Lee Morrison |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Mr. Rick Laliberte |
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
|
![V](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/b_stone1.gif) | Appendix
|
(Official Version)
EDITED HANSARD • NUMBER 121
![](/web/20061116181453im_/http://www2.parl.gc.ca/common/images/crest2.gif)
HOUSE OF COMMONS
Friday, June 12, 1998
The House met at 10 a.m.
Prayers
GOVERNMENT ORDERS
1005
[English]
CANADIAN TRANSPORTATION ACCIDENT INVESTIGATION AND SAFETY
BOARD ACT
The House resumed from June 10 the consideration in committee of
Bill S-2, an act to amend the Canadian Transportation Accident
Investigation and Safety Board Act and to make a consequential
amendment to another act, Ms. Thibeault in the chair.
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 1 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 1 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 2 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 2 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 3 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 3 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 4 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 4 agreed to)
[Translation]
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 5 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 5 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 6 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 6 agreed to)
[English]
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 7 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 7 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 8 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 8 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 9 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 9 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 10 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 10 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 11 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 11 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 12 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 12 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 13 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 13 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 14 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 14 agreed to)
[Translation]
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 15 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 15 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 16 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 16 agreed to)
[English]
(On clause 17)
Mr. Paul DeVillers (Parliamentary Secretary to President of
the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of
Intergovernmental Affairs, Lib.): Madam Chairman, I move the
following amendment to clause 17:
That the following words be removed from paragraph 28(a)(i):
“or a control facility for aviation operations”;
And that the following words be removed at line 17 from
paragraph 28(1)(b): “or a control facility for aviation
operations”.
[Translation]
And the French version reads as follows:
—l'article 28(1), à la ligne 5, en enlevant les mots «par une
installation de contrôle des opérations aériennes», et à la
ligne 12 en enlevant les mots «installation de contrôle des
opérations aériennes».
1010
[English]
These were amendments that were made when this bill was at the
Senate. There has been concern about the amendments. The
amendments raise serious concerns for Transport Canada and the
new NavCan corporation. Both are very worried that they will
lose access to information which is essential to carry out their
respective safety roles. The CATCA president, after discussion
with the union's executive, stated that the CATCA would not
oppose the removal of Senate amendments and NavCan requested the
opportunity to explain its concerns in more detail to the
Standing Committee on Transport only if the amendments in
question were not removed. Therefore, I have moved that they be
removed.
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall the amendment carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Amendment agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 17, as amended,
carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 17, as amended, agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 18 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 18 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 19 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 19 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 20 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 20 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 21 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 21 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 22 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 22 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 23 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 23 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 24 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 24 agreed to)
[Translation]
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 25 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 25 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 26 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 26 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 27 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 27 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 28 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 28 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall clause 29 carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Clause 29 agreed to)
The Assistant Deputy Chairman: Shall the title carry?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: On division.
(Title agreed to)
(Bill reported)
1015
[English]
Hon. David M. Collenette (for the President of the Queen's Privy
Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs,
Lib.) moved that the bill, as amended, be concurred in.
(Motion agreed to)
[Translation]
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): When shall the bill be read
the third time? By leave, now?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
Hon. David M. Collenette (for the President of the Queen's Privy
Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs)
moved that the bill be now read the third time and passed.
[English]
Mr. Lee Morrison (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Ref.): Madam
Speaker, on November 4, 1997 the deputy chairman of the Senate
committee on transport and communications made a rather
remarkable statement with respect to Bill S-2: “We will be
making history this afternoon in that this is the first bill we
will be dealing with ab initio since this is a Senate bill. We
will then pass it along to you in whatever form that may be”.
What a satire of parliamentary democracy. The unelected,
unaccountable troughers in the other place are initiating
important bills and sending them off to us, in whatever form that
may be.
I admit that Bill S-2 does not differ to any great extent from
its previous incarnation as Bill C-86 in the 35th parliament. But
in theory the senators could have done anything they wanted with
this bill and sent it off to us here. That is wrong. I fondly
hope we will not see in this parliament any further bills with
the letter S prefixing them.
The Senate should be limited to its function of providing sober
second thought, and even in that role it is illegitimate because
of the manner in which its members are chosen. Only yesterday
the Prime Minister had the effrontery to appoint five more,
thumbing his nose at public opinion. However, Bill S-2 is a
housekeeping bill and it is basically sound. It does have a
couple of failures which I would like to bring to the attention
of the House.
In section 4 which specifies the terms of employment for board
members and establishes that there shall be no more than five, of
whom three shall be full time members, there is no provision for
a transparent merit based system of appointment. Members will
continue to be chosen at the discretion of the minister, just as
they are for a plethora of other boards and agencies.
This one in common with, for example, the National Parole Board
and the Immigration and Refugee Board, has the capacity to do
harm if the wrong patronage choices are made. There has to be a
better way.
The second fault is that this board will continue to have the
discretion to not investigate fatal accidents if it feels that
such an investigation would be unlikely to lead to a reduction in
risk to persons, property or the environment. But if no
investigation is made how can such presumptions be reasonably
made? Of course to investigate more accidents the TSB would need
more money. It would need more investigators. Its current
investigative staff is only 135 and its budget for 1998-99 is
only $22 million.
One has to question the priorities of a government which has
hundreds of millions of dollars for grants and forgivable loans
to corporations that build aircraft but only a pittance to
determine why aircraft crash. Bear in mind that although air
crashes are spectacular, the TSB also must put together the
puzzles of fragmented trains, ships and pipelines.
1020
Those 135 investigators are stretched too thinly. I urge this
government to remedy the situation.
Bill S-2 does not address the intrinsic problems of the board
but its defects that I have drawn to the attention of this House
are defects of omission rather than of commission. Reform
members will therefore support it as a housekeeping exercise.
Ms. Marlene Catterall: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point
of order. There have been consultations among the parties and I
think you would find unanimous that during the present sitting
when the questions are put for third reading of Bill S-2 and Bill
C-38, in each case it shall be deemed to have been carried on
division.
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): Is that agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
[Translation]
Mr. Michel Guimond (Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, BQ): Madam
Speaker, I want to say from the outset that our party fully
supports the idea of proceeding this morning with the second and
third readings of the bill.
No one wishes to see any accident happen in the transportation
sector. However, if some unfortunate accident does occur during
the summer and requires a quick intervention by the Canadian
Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board, it will
now be possible—thanks to this bill—to have improved
investigations to—as I mentioned in a previous speech—make
sure that prevention measures are complied with.
When an accident occurs, we would like to make sure, through the
recommendations that may be made following a serious and
impartial investigation, that such accidents do not recur. Once
again, the purpose of this measure is to protect the health of
Canadians and Quebeckers, who have confidence in our
transportation industry. So, let me emphasize again that our
party agreed to the quick passing of this bill, before the House
adjourns for the summer.
As I mentioned before, I think it was last Friday in my speech
at a previous stage, our party regrets that this bill was
initiated in the Senate by unelected representatives, political
hacks, both Liberals and Conservatives, who think they have the
authority to impose legislation on this House.
In Canada, we have a bicameral system. We hope this system can
be replaced, but we have our doubts. Surveys in Quebec have
shown that the vast majority of Quebeckers—74% or 78%—want to
see the Senate abolished, whereas the rest of Canada wants a
triple E Senate, a strengthened Senate.
This confirms what the Bloc Quebecois has been saying for a long
time, namely that the system does not work. We are telling Quebeckers
who want to see the Senate abolished and to recover part of the
$54 million they pay in taxes for that institution that Quebec's
political sovereignty is one way to achieve that goal. The
Senate would no longer exist.
1025
We deplore the fact that this bill was introduced in the Senate
and that the government did not seize this opportunity to fix an
archaic and outdated system whereby members of these
quasi-judicial bodies are appointed by the governor in council.
We know what this means.
For those who are watching us and who do not know, the governor
in council is the patronage machine of the PMO which determines
who are the most loyal friends of the government. We may think
of Senator Ross Fitzpatrick, who was the fundraiser for the
Liberal Party in the western provinces—
Hon. David M. Collenette: A distinguished Canadian.
Mr. Michel Guimond: Evidently, we are hitting a nerve. The
Minister of Transport had not said a word since I began, but
when I mentioned the name of Senator Ross Fitzpatrick, the smoke
started to rise.
I will continue.
Hon. David M. Collenette: He is a great Canadian.
Mr. Michel Guimond: We know that Senator Ross Fitzpatrick, who
was a Liberal Party bagman in the West, was made a senator by
the Prime Minister. That is a reward.
We think the government should have taken advantage of this bill
to ensure that members of these boards are appointed on the
basis of merit alone, not as a political reward.
As for political rewards, there are sometimes ambiguities.
If people are wondering why a well-known Conservative was
appointed by the Liberal Party, it was to give the appearance of
transparency.
In the Mulroney years, there was the hon. Ed Broadbent, former
leader of the New Democratic Party, who was appointed to a human
rights office in Montreal. Appointing someone from another
party helps divert attention from the 30 appointments from their
own party.
There is the example of the member for
Beauport—Montmorency—Orleans, whom I had the pleasure of
defeating in the 1993 election. He occupied the position you
now hold, Madam Speaker. I am referring to Charles DeBlois.
With the help of Marc-Yvan Côté, a well known political organizer
in the Quebec City region, he was appointed to an immigration
commissioner position in Montreal.
People wondered how a candidate who had been a
Progressive-Conservative for five years could be handed a reward
like that by the Liberal Party.
It is the classic example. They appoint one from the other gang
and then feel free to appoint 30, 40 or 50 of their own.
The best example of all is the chairperson of this
transportation safety board. His name is Benoît Bouchard. He
was the Minister of Transport in the Mulroney years. Just
before the Conservatives were defeated—they were obviously headed
for defeat in 1993—Mr. Mulroney appointed him Canadian ambassador
to Paris. The Liberal government, having its own political
appointee in mind for the Paris embassy—Jacques Roy—brought Mr.
Bouchard back to Ottawa and appointed him chairman of the
transportation safety board.
This is another way of appointing someone of a different
political stripe, so that we can appoint 30, 40 or 50 others of
our own.
That about wraps it up for me. I would like to take this
opportunity to wish Quebeckers, Bloc Quebecois members, and
members of our teams who work both in the ridings and in Ottawa,
a pleasant summer. Rest up with your friends and families. I
am sure that your families would want you to take care on the
highways and waterways. There are always unfortunate accidents.
I know that your families would rather have you alive and well.
Enjoy the summer.
[English]
Ms. Angela Vautour (Beauséjour—Petitcodiac, NDP): Mr.
Speaker, the safety board act was originally passed by the
Mulroney government in 1989.
It brought a number of different federal bodies responsible for
transportation safety under the same roof.
1030
The NDP opposed the original act for three reasons. First, a
newly created safety board was underfunded and underequipped to
carry out its broad mandate to investigate all air marine, rail
and pipeline accidents.
Second, the act allows ministers and interested private
companies to review drafts of the board's reports and submit
comments. This unduly influences the board's final reports and
compromises the board's independence.
Third, the original act did not adequately protect the privacy
of workers who gave testimony to the board. Without privacy
workers were at risk of retribution if their testimony was
damaging to their employers.
Bill S-2 is an act to amend the original Safety Board Act. Most
of the changes are of technical nature to clarify language and
adapt the act for technological advances. We support these
aspects of the bill. There are some new provisions in the bill
to extend privacy protections to people who give testimony to the
safety board. We support this because it addresses one of the
three reasons the NDP opposed the Safety Board Act in 1989.
However, despite these positive changes we still oppose Bill S-2
because it makes a bad act even worse.
The safety board is still underfunded. Across the country there
were over 2,000 air marine, train and pipeline accidents last
year. Yet the safety board only employs 135 people to
investigate these occurrences. Even though many of these
accidents do not require in-depth investigation, the board
nevertheless has a massive backlog. The backlog is so bad that
the board has had to start rushing its investigations to catch
up. This is a threat to public safety. The board requires more
funding so it can hire more investigators to properly safeguard
the health and safety of Canadians.
Bill S-2 would allow the government to turn some of the safety
board appointments from full time into part time positions. This
would leave the board with even fewer working hours. The
dedicated public servants of the Transportation Safety Board of
Canada are coping as best they can. The Liberals owe it to
Canadians to give these public servants the resources they need
to do their important work.
By far the worst aspect of Bill S-2 is that it puts a shroud of
secrecy over the process by which private companies are allowed
to influence the safety board. It is bad enough that they are
allowed to review draft copies of the board's reports and make
submissions.
Bill S-2 would make these submissions secret. If the private
submissions of the safety board were not unduly influencing the
board there would be no reason to hide them from the Canadian
people. This process is elitist and anti-democratic. The
Canadian people depend on the safety board for their health and
safety when travelling. They have a right to know what these
private companies are saying to the safety board.
The entire process of Bill S-2 has shown how out of touch the
Liberals are with the Canadian public. First they introduced the
bill in the Senate, a patronage ridden and anti-democratic
institution that the Canadian people have no confidence in. The
bill makes a bad piece of legislation even worse by putting a
shroud of secrecy over the safety board and thereby compromising
its independence.
The provisions of the bill to hide private sector submissions to
the safety board are scandalous. The very fact that they have
this opportunity to influence the board is a farce. The Liberals
should have used this opportunity to remove this ridiculous
provision from the act. Instead they are trying to hide it from
the Canadian people.
Canadians rely on the transportation safety board to make sure
that the rails, skies, waterways and pipelines of the country are
safe. Transportation safety is vitally important to the movement
of goods and passengers across the country. People need to be
sure that the board is doing its job effectively if they are to
have confidence in travelling or doing business in Canada. Thus
the Liberals owe it to Canadians to make the safety board
transparent and accountable.
1035
Mr. Charlie Power (St. John's West, PC): Madam Speaker, I
rise to speak today on behalf of our caucus to support Bill S-2.
It is an act to amend the Canadian Transportation Accident
Investigation and Safety Board Act and to make consequential
amendment to another act.
The Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety
Board Act was passed by parliament in June 1989. The act
established an independent federal agency, the Canadian
Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board, or as it
is commonly known the TSB.
The TSB has the mandate to investigate accidents into marine,
rail, pipeline and air modes of transportation. A major feature
of the TSB is its independence from the regulator, Transport
Canada, and from all other departments of government. Its sole
objective is to advance transportation safety, and this is indeed
an admirable objective.
The original Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and
Safety Board Act contained a provision in section 63 of the act
that required the mandatory review of the operation of the act.
This review was initiated in January 1993 by the Canadian
Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board Act Review
Commission and its report was tabled in parliament in 1994.
Meanwhile the Moshansky commission of inquiry into the March 1989
accident at the Dryden airport had completed its work and made
recommendations pertinent to the Canadian Transportation Accident
Investigation and Safety Board Act.
Bill S-2 is the result of these changes suggested by both the
Dryden investigation and by the Canadian Transportation Board
Accident Investigation and Safety Board Review Commission. Bill
S-2 proposes to do some tidying up of the already very solid
piece of legislation.
Bill S-2 was introduced in the Senate on September 30, 1997. It
went on to the Senate transportation and communications committee
in which Bill S-2 received three amendments. One of these
amendments was made by the Progressive Conservative senators whom
at this time I would like thank for their hard work on this
important piece of transportation safety legislation.
The Progressive Conservative amendment made in the Senate now
allows the TSB to have two part time members. The current board
consists of only four members and has one vacancy due to some
trouble in finding a fifth full time member. The new provision
is to allow part time membership as a positive step in
maintaining a healthy TSB.
Liberal senators made two amendments to Bill S-2. One was a
very good one and one was a very poor amendment. The first
Liberal amendment was a transitional clause which ensures that
pending or ongoing legal proceedings would be able to continue
once the bill is passed. This is a positive move which protects
against any gaps while Bill S-2 comes into force.
The second amendment made by a Liberal was not such a good idea.
In fact it was so bad the Liberal government is now back-tracking
and asking to have the amendment deleted. The amendment deals
with the protection of land line recordings made in air traffic
control systems.
The amendment was made without legal advice without
transportation safety board consultation or, as far as we can
tell, without consulting anyone about the possible the
detrimental impact this amendment could have. The unintended
affect of this amendment would deny the employer and the
regulator access to information which the government has admitted
is “necessary to ensure the quality and safety of some elements
of air traffic service”.
The government in this case was asleep at the wheel. It should
have been better prepared to deal with the bill. It has been a
long while in the making. To let this occur shows just how
little force that the government has had on the issue. It has
been promised that the government will delete the amendment
today. I hope it does that today because it is important that it
should be done.
We are on top of the transportation safety issues in Canada and
we will be ensuring that this legislation and any future safety
legislation passed by the House will be positive step for Canada.
In conclusion, I should also like to note that our party's
transportation critic, the hon. member for
Cumberland—Colchester, has done an extensive investigation into
the bill. It has been found to be solid and should warrant our
support.
While it somewhat irregular for a bill which has been referred
to a standing committee to brought back to the House without
allowing the committee to do its work, hear any witnesses or
perform the valuable work of parliamentary committees, we will be
supporting this move today with regard to Bill S-2.
The reason for this is the need to give the transportation
safety board the necessary changes to fine tune its operation as
well as to make minor although important changes to the governing
act. These changes will increase transportation safety for all
Canadians. For this reason the Progressive Conservative Party
will be supporting a quick passage today.
1040
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): Is the House ready
for the question?
Some hon. members: Question.
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): The question is on
the motion for third reading of Bill S-2. Pursuant to order made
earlier this day, the motion is deemed carried on division.
(Motion agreed to, bill read the third time and passed)
* * *
NATIONAL PARKS ACT
Hon. Fred Mifflin (for the Minister of Canadian Heritage)
moved that Bill C-38, an act amend the National Parks Act, be
read the third time and passed.
Hon. Andy Mitchell (Secretary of State (Parks), Lib.):
Madam Speaker, I am pleased to have an opportunity to rise today
on third reading of Bill C-38, an act to establish Tuktut Nogait
National Park.
I begin my comments by repeating something I said in the House
yesterday. I thank all members from all parties who worked
diligently in committee and otherwise toward the passage of this
piece of legislation and toward an important objective that we as
Canadians all share, the establishment and continuing
establishment of our national parks system and toward fulfilling
what is a very important goal and objective for all Canadians,
the protection of special places in the country.
This park will join the family of 38 national parks to date and
will, as I said, work toward the completion of our national parks
system to ensure that we have the representation of at least one
park in each of the 39 natural regions designated across Canada.
These are indeed special places. In this case of Tuktut Nogait,
the process that has been developed in this park is being put
forward to protect the bluenose caribou herd, the core calving
grounds of the caribou herd, and to protect the tundra landscape
of the northern Arctic. It is one of the most beautiful and
spectacular locations in Canada, particularly in Canada's north.
The establishment of this park has been a very long, extensive
and public process in arriving at the place where we are today.
The original idea for this national park was in 1989 when the
community of Paulatuk undertook a study. It came to Parks
Canada, to the federal government, and suggested that one way to
protect the area was through the establishment of a national
park.
From that point there was a period of some seven years of public
hearings, negotiations and discussions so that in 1996 all
parties were in a position to sign an agreement to establish the
national park. What we are doing with the bill is taking that
agreement and bringing it under the National Parks Act.
Since that agreement has been signed a management board
committee has been established to oversee the park. It includes
representatives of the local community as well as of Parks
Canada. This is a full management procedure by which to manage
the park. I am pleased that the board is up and running and
providing us with timely advice on the operation of the park.
I will not speak too long to this issue but there are four key
points I want to make briefly.
1045
One is the importance of establishing this park to protect the
important calving grounds of the bluenose caribou herd. This was
one of the raisons d'etre for the establishment of the park. The
science which we have seen shows clearly that the park is used by
the caribou for their calving.
It helps us as a government and as Canadians to fulfil an
international obligation which we have talked about. This
government and Canadians have been very insistent with our
American counterparts that they protect their caribou on the
Alaskan side of the border. We have worked diligently within
Canada to ensure that we have protected the calving grounds. We
have asked that the Americans do this. To date their land in
Alaska, commonly known as the 1002 land, still does not have full
protection. I think we are sending a very clear message
internationally that we are willing to stand behind our
international statements by protecting the caribou here in
Canada.
I touched on my second point in my introduction. This park
establishment is going along in terms of an agreement that all
parties came to in 1996. This agreement was made, and there has
been some discussion about this, knowing that there was an
anomaly in that area that would indicate there may be some
mineral potential.
In 1994 the resource company itself was part of that decision by
voluntarily, at the request of the Inuvialuit, relinquishing its
mining claims to that area. We understand that this was not
because it was not an area that there may be mineral exploration,
we did not think that the area was not valuable, but a collective
decision was made that we would protect this area despite the
fact that it may have some mineral potential. That was the
decision. It was not made in ignorance. It was a conscious
decision made to protect a very special place in Canada and to do
so knowing full well what the results of that may be.
I also want to touch very briefly on the status of Tuktut Nogait
as it stands today. There have been some suggestions that this
is not really a national park and that any concern over
protecting the integrity of agreements is not a real concern.
Many of what we commonly call our national parks are in exactly
the same status as Tuktut Nogait is prior to the passage of this
legislation. Places like Pacific Rim in British Columbia,
Grasslands in Saskatchewan, Pukaskwa in Ontario, Gros Morne in
Newfoundland all are more or less in the same legal status as
Tuktut Nogait is today.
It is important that we demonstrate clearly that we are going to
protect the integrity of the boundaries of our national parks.
If we were to move away from that and say we would entertain
logging interests in one area, oil and gas interests in another
area or mining interests in another area, then we would have
great difficulties.
We decide collectively as Canadians to protect certain special
places in this country. As the Secretary of State for Parks, I
had the honour and the responsibility of ensuring the integrity
of those decisions.
This last point is one which I spoke on briefly yesterday at
report stage. We are committed as a government to work with the
local community to ensure that it has an opportunity to develop
economically in terms of the park. We have made a commitment
that we will be spending some $10 million over the next several
years with the establishment of the park.
We have also said clearly that we are going to work to ensure
that the native community, the local community, has the first
opportunity for the jobs that are being created in that area. We
are also working with the Government of the Northwest Territories
to ensure that we can proceed with the economic development. The
fact is that some 80% of that mining potential I talked about
earlier is outside the park and may present an opportunity as
an event that may unfold in the future.
1050
In conclusion, I am pleased that we are about to pass this
legislation and see another important part of our national parks
system come to fruition.
Mr. Keith Martin (Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, Ref.): Madam
Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak on Bill C-38. The Reform
Party will be supporting it in our efforts to support
conservation in Canada. However, I am greatly disappointed in
the activities of this government over the past year with respect
to protecting our endangered species and our parks.
I wonder if the hon. secretary of state knows that what is going
on in the Arctic today is truly a tragedy. Teratogenic and
carcinogenic materials in the form of radioactive isotopes are
coming across to the northern Arctic. They are poisoning the
Inuit people who live there. Those materials are bioaccumulating
in the flora and fauna and causing serious trouble for the
environment. Some of these isotopes will not go away for
hundreds of thousands of years. We hear absolutely nothing about
it yet the government has been warned repeatedly over the years.
I would strongly recommend the government look into that.
Over 240 species are at risk in Canada today, including the
prothonotary warbler, beaked whales, Mississauga rattlesnakes,
black-footed ferrets, Vancouver Island marmots and many others.
The people who are trying to preserve these species are not
getting the help they require.
The minister of heritage has taken a knee-jerk response to
Banff. She has done the exact opposite of what she should be
doing. She should be enabling the people of Banff to generate
the necessary funds to not only protect their wild spaces but
also to expand the park.
I have heard the hon. secretary of state speak eloquently about
this so he knows very well that the degradation of our
environment and the destruction of our habitat seriously threaten
endangered species. In a nutshell, we have to give endangered
species a home. We cannot kill them. We have to protect them
and we have to work with the people to do that.
There are many serious threats, from the destruction of our
habitat to trafficking. Canada is one of top 10 countries in the
world in the international trafficking of endangered species.
There is trafficking of tiger parts, black rhino horn and many
other endangered species around the world. That is not part of
the Canadian legacy and it is not something we should be proud of
having within our midst.
There is the issue of lack of support for our conservation
staff. There are difficulties and jurisdictional problems
between the feds, the provinces and the municipalities.
These issues have to be cleared up in a very substantive way for
many reasons. One reason is that we have derived many medicinal
and other benefits. We will derive more in the future if we can
preserve these species for the benefit of all, not to mention the
philosophical benefits of being able to give to our children what
we have received from our parents.
There are some sensible solutions. What has worked around the
world has been to get parks and wild spaces to generate their own
funds. If parks and wild spaces can earn revenue, that revenue
can be ploughed back into the parks. This is a very sensible and
eco-friendly way to preserve and expand the parks.
Buffer zones could be created around the parks and the people
living in the surrounding areas could derive benefits. When the
people in the surrounding areas derive a benefit from the park
they can use the area as a poaching buffer zone around the park.
Different parks around the world have used this strategy. It has
worked very well in Central America and elsewhere.
It could also be a very useful way of engaging developing
countries in creating revenues in an eco-friendly way. Parks in
south central Asia and Africa could generate revenues that would
benefit the people in the surrounding area in a sustainable way.
It enables people to support themselves.
1055
In terms of the jurisdiction of the environment we have to clean
that up. Currently federal regulations only cover 4% of the
Canadian land mass. Species do not know boundaries. They cross
over municipal, provincial and national boundaries. They need to
be protected within that context. We have to remove the
jurisdictional entanglements that prevent strong legislation from
coming forward to protect our endangered species.
The trafficking situation is appalling. We have to have enough
conservation officers and we have to give them the powers to
enforce the laws. They are not getting the support of the
justice system. They must do this for Canada to end its
miserable legacy that it has before the world in being a conduit
for wild animal parts.
I recognize that there are no new moneys, but funds can be
generated through using the parks in an eco-friendly way. One
example is to put a 2% levy on hotels deriving benefits from the
parks. Those moneys could be poured back into the parks for
conservation measures, habitat protection, extending the habitat,
doing scientific research and education. In this way we would not
have to ask the government for more money. The money would be
there.
Hunting is actually useful. I do not hunt as I could never kill
anything, but as has worked in the past, if money could be
derived from hunting, those moneys which could be quite extensive
could be poured back into the parks and used to preserve many of
the other species. It might sound cold hearted but it is
pragmatic and it does work.
We also have to deal with enforcing our obligations under CITES,
the Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species.
We are a signatory to this convention but as I said before, we
have been an embarrassment with respect to our enforcement of
those issues.
We have a number of opportunities within our midst. The power
of the federal government is enormous. It has to sit down with
its provincial counterparts to establish jurisdictional
differences. Perhaps it would be best for the federal government
to take the responsibility and work with the municipalities. It
also needs to work with farmers and land owners. They could be a
natural support for conservation measures. Where that has been
done on the prairies it has worked very well.
Generally speaking land owners do not want to see the decimation
of the biodiversity within their midst. They would like to see
that preserved for many reasons, yet they need people to work
with them. If the government could manage to work with them then
we would be able to expand our biodiversity and use the private
land owners as friends rather than as enemies. This could be a
useful way of expanding today's situation.
I will go back to the situation on trafficking. We live in a
world that is intertwined; what happens half a world away affects
us here at home. Canada has taken a leadership role in signing
international treaties on biodiversity in the past. The world
needs a leader in working with other countries in this area.
We have to put aside our prejudices and deal with some very
pragmatic ways in which we can support our environment. Yes, it
does take money. One of the things we could examine is that the
environment can generate revenues in an environmentally sound,
pragmatic and sustainable manner and those moneys could then be
poured back into the environment.
When the minister prevented development within the city
boundaries of Banff, that was not sensible. This did not involve
an encroachment on the park. The minister could have taken a
leadership role. She could have said that it would be allowed
within the park so long as it fit certain federal regulations
with respect to the environment. If the minister had done that
and taken a leadership role in putting forth sensible ways for
the park to generate revenues which could be poured into the
conservation measures, Banff National Park would be stronger
today.
The Deputy Speaker: I am sorry to interrupt the hon.
member but I think he knows what time it is. He will have plenty
of time to complete his remarks after question period. We will
now proceed to Statements by Members.
STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS
1100
[English]
SMALL BUSINESS
Mr. Carmen Provenzano (Sault Ste. Marie, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business and the
Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association have announced a
joint initiative that will help make unincorporated businesses
more competitive and improve health care coverage for up to one
million Canadians.
Small businesses are the backbone of the Canadian economy. This
is why our government has produced a number of initiatives
designed to ensure continued growth in the medium and small
business sectors.
The government's 1998 federal budget introduced measures that
permit unincorporated, self-employed business owners to deduct
the cost of supplementary health and dental coverage as a
business expense. This is a major step toward placing them on
the same footing as other Canadian businesses.
The joint CFIB and CLHIA announcement brings this important
initiative full circle.
I congratulate the Minister of Finance for his leadership in
this regard. I commend the Canadian Federation of Independent
Business and the Canadian Life and Health Insurance Association
for responding so positively.
The result of this co-operative and innovative effort—
The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member for Calgary Centre.
* * *
BILL C-397
Mr. Eric Lowther (Calgary Centre, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
taxpayers in my riding of Calgary Centre expect safe streets in
their communities when they step out of their homes, day or
night.
That is why when street prostitution and the intimidating
criminal element it attracts surfaced in one of these communities
these resourceful Calgarians said “No way. Not here”.
They went to their elected officials at all levels of
government. They made it clear that they want results, not buck
passing.
After consultation and review of the recommendations from the
experts, I have submitted Bill C-397. This bill has the
documented support of all three levels of government, the Alberta
justice minister and local and business communities.
On May 19 I contacted other municipalities across Canada to see
whether they felt their communities would benefit from Bill
C-397.
The response has been encouraging, including a letter of support
from fellow Canadians in the city of Rimouski, Quebec.
Calgarians and Canadians urge every member of this House to
support this bill and contribute to safer Canadian communities.
* * *
THE ENVIRONMENT
Hon. Charles Caccia (Davenport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the
Ontario environment ministry is allowing dombind to be spread on
country roads, a practice that has dangerous consequences.
Testing has shown a dramatic rise in dioxin levels on rural
roads treated with dombind, a thick, sticky material made from
pulp and paper waste.
It contains toxic substances, including dioxins, which are
harmful to aquatic life, soil organisms, cattle and humans.
The Ontario government has issued a licence allowing dombind to
be sprayed until next December. The licence to use dombind,
otherwise known as the black liquor, should be revoked because of
its potential harm to drinking water and the ecosystem.
* * *
RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT
Mr. Andrew Telegdi (Kitchener—Waterloo, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the University of Waterloo and the consortium Watpark
recently announced progress in the development of a 200 acre
world-class research and technology park on campus.
Companies such as IBM Canada Ltd. and the Evergreen Foundation
are participating in this consortium. This high tech park will
encourage the creation or relocation of research-based companies,
provide attractive employment opportunities in the high tech
sector for co-op students and graduates and produce long term
financial benefits that will help the university to enhance the
quality and relevance of its programs.
I applaud this private and academic sector partnership for its
initiatives that will be of great benefit to the Waterloo region,
Ontario and Canada.
I also congratulate this Liberal government, the Ministers of
Finance and Industry and the Secretary of State for Science,
Research and Development for their support of the R and D sector.
* * *
MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS
Ms. Jean Augustine (Etobicoke—Lakeshore, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I rise today to congratulate an outstanding
parliamentarian on his 25th year in public life.
Over these 25 years, Canadians have watched his move from a
scholar to a politician dedicated to championing issues of social
justice.
His commitment in this area is exemplified by his leadership
role on the land mines treaty and his fierce determination to
protect children from all types of abuses, including those which
are a consequence of war and labour exploitation.
Lloyd Axworthy's understanding of public service for the common
good is one of the many reasons for the longevity of his career.
I commend him for his dedication to and appreciation of public
life, for his work in the House of Commons and on behalf of his
constituents.
I call on my colleagues to join me in congratulating the hon.
Minister of Foreign Affairs. Congratulations, Mr. Minister.
1105
The Deputy Speaker: I must caution the hon. member not to
refer to hon. members by name, but by their title.
* * *
GOVERNMENT SPENDING
Mr. Lee Morrison (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, the Minister of Health would have us believe that there
are no funds available to compensate hepatitis C victims, but in
his previous portfolio he had no difficulty committing the
government to a loopy firearms registration scheme that will cost
hundreds of millions of dollars for no discernible benefit, a
scheme that has already cost far more than his initial estimate
with nothing yet to show for it.
There are no funds for victims of governmental ineptitude and
hundreds of millions available for useless and repressive
bureaucratic exercises.
The chairman of the Toronto police services board reported a 40%
drop in the criminal use of firearms in the last four years. Just
as this government continues to ignore the indignation of rural
people, it is ignoring the fact that firearms are not a problem
in our largest city.
Priorities, boys and girls. Priorities.
* * *
R-2000 PROGRAM
Mr. Roy Cullen (Etobicoke North, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, an
hon. member stood in the House last week and blamed the federal
government's National Building Code and its R-2000 program for
the so-called leaky condo crisis in British Columbia.
The R-2000 program is not to blame. There is absolutely no
evidence to indicate that the use of air vapour barriers is a
problem in the lower mainland or elsewhere in Canada. There have
been no wall failures reported in R-2000 certified buildings in
British Columbia.
The R-2000 program provides a basis for the design and
construction of new homes which are more energy efficient. All
R-2000 homes must comply with local and provincial building
codes. CMHC, NRC, key stakeholders and the B.C. community are
working together to come up with appropriate technical solutions
that can be applied to repairs of affected buildings.
I am pleased also to inform the House that, based on research
done by NRCan scientists, new seismic hazard information will
become part of the year 2000 national building code.
* * *
[Translation]
ABITIBI
Mr. Pierre Brien (Témiscamingue, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I would like
to point out that tomorrow is the 100th anniversary of Abitibi's
annexation to Quebec.
On June 13, 1898, the area around Abitibi, which had belonged to
the Northwest Territories, joined Quebec following 25 years of
discussions between the governments of Canada and Quebec.
An organizing committee under the aegis of the
Abitibi-Témiscamingue cultural committee is co-ordinating an
impressive number of commemorative and other activities, which
will be taking place throughout the summer and continue until
next winter.
In addition, the committee plans to organize a conference in the
fall on Abitibi's annexation to Quebec.
I congratulate the Abitibi-Témiscamingue cultural committee on
this venture and I would like to point out that the people of
Abitibi and my region are proud to belong to Quebec now and for
always.
Happy celebrations.
* * *
[English]
CANADIAN CENTRE FOR EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS
Ms. Beth Phinney (Hamilton Mountain, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
on Monday the Canadian Centre for Emergency Preparedness will be
hosting its eighth annual world conference on disaster management
in Hamilton.
Every year leaders in the field of emergency response examine
lessons learned from the past year's worse natural and man-made
disasters.
This year's conference features the eastern Ontario and Quebec
ice storms, the Alberta fires and the Red River flood.
Emergency Preparedness Canada administers the joint emergency
preparedness program and the disaster financial assistance
arrangements program on behalf of the federal government.
This Liberal government has given tremendous support to ice
storm victims and to those affected by the Alberta fires and the
Red River flood victims. This emergency preparedness program is
simply another way the Liberal government is helping Canadians in
time of need.
* * *
THE SENATE
Mr. Derrek Konrad (Prince Albert, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, we
have now been working together in this House since September and
I must say it has been a pleasure working with everyone here over
this period of time.
But as I say this on what appears to be our last day in this
House before a three month recess, still nothing has been done
about Senate reform. The Reform Party has remained committed to
the idea of a triple E Senate and will continue to push for
Senate reform.
The Prime Minister said that he is in favour of Senate reform,
but yet just last night he snuck in five new senators. Shame. A
whole session has gone by and still the Prime Minister has done
nothing on the matter.
The vast majority of Canadians want Senate reform and want to be
able to have a say in who represents them in the upper chamber,
no matter how popular they may be. Canadians must have a voice.
Mr. Speaker, I think you will agree that it is time for the
government to start listening to Canadians and to get real.
* * *
1110
THE SENATE
Mr. Steve Mahoney (Mississauga West, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
yesterday parliament welcomed its newest left winger, the hon.
“big M” Frank Mahovlich.
Over an illustrious career, Frank Mahovlich scored 626 goals,
was selected to nine all-star teams and was on 6 Stanley Cup
winners. He has been a hockey hero in the two historic hotbeds of
the Canadian game: Toronto and Montreal.
He was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1981, Canada's
Sports Hall of Fame in 1990 and received the Order of Canada in
1994.
He has the kind of talent we need here in Ottawa: someone who
knows how to stick handle, how to win in the corners and how to
finish the play.
Indeed, we would put our “big M” up against the official
opposition's “little M”, Preston Manning, any day of the week.
The Deputy Speaker: If hon. members could restrain
themselves somewhat, it would be easier for the Chair to hear
breaches of order that are committed by members such as the hon.
member who just mentioned a member of this House by name. I urge
all hon. members to comply with the rules and only mention the
title of the member or the constituency name, rather than the
name of the member.
* * *
FIREFIGHTERS
Mr. Rick Laliberte (Churchill River, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I
rise today to pay tribute to thousands of men and women across
northern Canada who are fighting forest fires. All Canadians owe
a great debt of gratitude for their courage, discipline and
resourcefulness.
In Churchill River hundreds are fighting fires in northwestern
Saskatchewan communities such as Île-à-la Crosse, Buffalo Narrows
and La Loche. In northern Alberta they protected Swan Hills. In
the Yukon they are fighting fires around Haines Junction and
Whitehorse.
The federal government should recognize the valuable resources
available across Canada to meet the challenges of natural
disasters. As a nation we have faced many tragedies, like the
Manitoba flood and the ice storms of 1998. These disasters could
be addressed by the firefighters of northern Canada.
Today I extend thanks to all the firefighters in northern Canada
for protecting our communities.
* * *
[Translation]
CHIAPAS
Mrs. Maud Debien (Laval East, BQ): Mr. Speaker, we were
distressed to learn of the resignation of Mgr. Samuel Ruiz as
the head of the national mediation commission in Chiapas.
With 40 years' service to the Indian communities in Chiapas, the
Bishop of San Cristobal was acting as mediator between the
Zapatistas and the Mexican authorities. His departure and that
of all the members of the commission heighten fears of further
military intervention in Chiapas.
The pressure, insults, attacks and criticism from as high up as
President Zedillo sabotage every effort by Mgr. Ruiz to bring
peace.
We regret the departure of this man of peace, especially since
we heard reports this morning of a number of deaths in Mexico.
We hope that the Government of Mexico will express its intention
to reach a negotiated solution in stronger terms. According to
the recommendations of the Mexican national human rights
commission, relocating the military would be a first step.
* * *
[English]
HOUSE OF COMMONS
Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this
has been a successful year for parliament. We introduced 56
government bills into the 36th Parliament, compared with 45 in
the last year of the previous parliament and we did this in a
much more complex political environment in the House of Commons.
Bills passed by the House of Commons since February include the
1998 budget legislation which established the Canadian Millennium
Scholarship Foundation, amendments to the Canadian Wheat Board
Act and the Canada Labour Code, and legislation to create a new
parks agency. These issues were complex and controversial and
involved intensive work by MPs on the floor of the House and in
committee.
We succeeded in moving forward on a large and difficult agenda
because of the hard work of members of parliament, improved
planning by the House leaders and better co-ordination between
the House and the Senate.
* * *
YOUTH UNEMPLOYMENT
Mr. Gilles Bernier (Tobique—Mactaquac, PC): Mr. Speaker,
according to figures provided by human resources development, the
minister has cut funding for summer career placements in New
Brunswick by over $300,000 from last year.
On Wednesday the minister mistakenly suggested that the funds
were cut because the unemployment rate for youth has dropped in
New Brunswick. The minister needs to check his facts. His
department's own numbers show that youth unemployment in New
Brunswick is up 2% from last year to 21%.
Finding a summer job is the only way many New Brunswick students
can afford to pay for the skyrocketing costs of education. Many
small businesses, non-profit organizations and municipalities can
only hire students with the help of government programs.
Unfortunately, because of the minister's cuts to summer job
programs there are students across New Brunswick who will not be
able to continue their education this fall.
1115
Last year the Liberal Party lost two-thirds of its seats in
Atlantic Canada and it seems to me it has learned nothing.
* * *
[Translation]
ACCUEIL BONNEAU
Mr. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, at this very
moment, the funeral ceremonies for the three victims of the
accident at Accueil Bonneau are being held in Montreal's
Notre-Dame Basilica.
I join with all my colleagues in the House of Commons in
offering our most sincere condolences to the families and
friends of the victims.
Accueil Bonneau makes a magnificent contribution to the lives of
thousands of disadvantaged Montrealers.
The three victims can never be replaced, but many courageous and
determined volunteers have already rolled up their sleeves to
ensure that these good works will continue.
Our thoughts go out at this time to the three who lost their
lives in this terrible accident, to whom we must be grateful for
their unceasing devotion to humanity.
Fortunately, however, thanks to the great solidarity shown by so
many Quebeckers in the hours since the tragedy, the work of
Accueil Bonneau will go on.
* * *
[English]
LIBERAL PARTY
Mr. Ken Epp (Elk Island, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, it is the
end of the semester and it is time to give this Liberal class its
evaluation.
For fulfilling the election promise to elect a senator,
f. The Prime Minister makes appointments and makes
excuses.
For fixing the Young Offenders Act, f. The assignment is
now over one year late.
For providing hope to victims of crime, f. They only talk
but nothing has been done.
In basic accounting, f. They are listing items in the
expenditures column that should not be there according to the
auditor general.
For cutting government spending, f. They cut mostly in
transfers to provinces.
For caring and compassion, f. For fixing up the problems
in the military, double f. For planning to reduce the debt
and interest payments, f. For attendance in the House,
d. For respect and deportment, f.
With ten fs and one d they fail. The next class,
the Reform class, will pass.
ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
[English]
NATIONAL DEFENCE
Miss Deborah Grey (Edmonton North, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, it
took a lot of courage for Private Ann Margaret Dickey to come
forward and tell her story of abuse in the military, but what has
been the reaction of the minister of defence? He blames the
victim. Instead of following up on Private Dickey's complaints,
the minister has the nerve to come forward and question her
credibility.
Why should any woman ever come forward with allegations of
sexual assault in the military when she knows she will be put on
trial by the minister, his department and the media? Why is
that?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the head of the national investigative service, Colonel
Patricia Samson, confirms that an investigation is under way into
the allegations referred to by the hon. Reform member.
This investigation is carried out by a body at arm's length from
the chain of command. I suggest we let the investigation take
its course and not raise it in the House of Commons in a way that
may prejudice its appropriate and successful outcome.
Miss Deborah Grey (Edmonton North, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
we would love to let the investigation take its course, except
the minister spoke out and talked about zero tolerance and how
terrible it is for any sexual assault to occur. Then he had the
nerve to come forward and taint that investigation by saying that
her whole story is not credible.
I want this minister to answer the question. Why should any
woman ever come forward with allegations of sexual assault when
she will have to go on trial by the minister, his department and
the media?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I do not accept the insinuations and premises of the
hon. member's question.
The minister said on behalf of the government that we want to
have a professional and harassment free atmosphere for all
members of the Canadian armed services.
That is why, following the recommendations of the Somalia
commission and former Chief Justice Dickson, the government set
up the arm's length national investigative service which is
actively looking into the allegations in question.
Miss Deborah Grey (Edmonton North, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
the biggest barrier to women coming forward with these kinds of
allegations is absolute fear that they will not be believed, and
the government knows it.
Dickey has run up against this problem at every turn for two
years. First of all it was her commanding officer. Then it was
the military investigators. Now it is the minister himself who
is blaming her and asking about her credibility.
When will one of these so-called defenders of human rights over
there stand and tell the minister that he cannot deal with sexual
assault victims by blaming the victims?
1120
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I do not think we can accept the insinuation of the hon.
member that the minister is saying we should blame the victim.
It is not my understanding of what he said at all. In fact the
minister is very interested in making sure the investigation is
carried on properly under the leadership of Colonel Patricia
Samson, head of the national investigative service at arm's
length from the chain of command.
If the hon. member believes that there should not be
interference in an investigation in a way that harms those who
make complaints, she should not be raising it wrongly in the way
she is in the House of Commons today.
Mr. Leon E. Benoit (Lakeland, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I
frankly do not believe what we are hearing hear today.
The Deputy Prime Minister is saying that he cannot comment on
the case because it is under investigation. Yet the minister is
commenting on the case to all the media right across the country
and he is blaming the victim.
How could Private Dickey ever get a fair hearing when the
minister is questioning her credibility through the media right
across the country?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I do not agree with the hon. member's interpretation of
the minister's words that he is blaming the victim. I do not
think he is doing that at all.
In any event, the minister is not directing or running the
investigation. It is being carried on at arm's length by the
national investigative service under the command of the chief
provost marshal, Colonel Patricia Samson, herself a member of the
same sex as the complainant.
Mr. Leon E. Benoit (Lakeland, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, maybe
the minister ought to read the newspapers today. The headlines
say that the minister is blaming the victim, and the minister is
blaming the victim.
The minister has prejudiced the case. He has questioned Private
Dickey's testimony in public. Now Private Dickey cannot possible
get fair treatment within the military system.
I want to ask the government what specific plans it has. What
will the government implement to give Private Dickey a fair
hearing outside the military justice system?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, at this stage an investigation is under way at arm's
length from the chain of command of the armed services. The
investigation is not completed.
My hon. friend's questions would make more sense if they were
asked once the investigation was completed. He wants to play
this out in the headlines. I do not think that is fair to the
complainant or any complaint of this kind.
* * *
[Translation]
CANADA INFORMATION OFFICE
Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski—Mitis, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
recently, the Prime Minister gave the Minister of Public Works,
the chief Liberal organizer in Quebec, responsibility for the
Canada information office, the CIO.
This morning we learn in the papers that the minister intends to
use the CIO's considerable resources to get involved in the
upcoming election campaign in Quebec.
Will the Minister of Public Works confirm what we learned from
the Canadian Press agency this morning, namely that the CIO will
be hugely involved in the upcoming election in opposition to the
current Government of Quebec?
Hon. Alfonso Gagliano (Minister of Public Works and Government
Services, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, what I said in the interview to
one journalist is that, first of all, the upcoming election in
Quebec is a provincial one, not a federal one, and that, if the
Government of Quebec or any other political party were to
misinform people about the Government of Canada, we would be
there to provide the facts. That is all.
However, I am surprised the member is asking the question,
because her leader said all Bloc members would be canvassing
door to door in the fall as part of the election campaign. So
they can get involved, but we cannot—
The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member for Rimouski—Mitis.
Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski—Mitis, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
canvassing door to door is one thing, but using the $20 million
of the CIO in the campaign is something else.
Some hon. members: Hear, hear.
Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay: This government is arrogant. It thinks
it has a monopoly on the truth. In a democracy, its not
uncommon to have different takes on the same reality.
Infallibility is to be found in Rome, not in Ottawa.
Will the Minister of Public Works confirm that his government
once again intends to exceed the spirit of the legislation on
political party funding, as happened in the 1995 referendum
campaign with Option Canada?
Hon. Alfonso Gagliano (Minister of Public Works and Government
Services, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we have no intention to exceed any
legislation, electoral or other.
What we are saying is that, as the Government of Canada, we are
entitled, and Canadians are entitled to know the facts as they
are and not the versions the separatists want them to hear.
1125
So if they spread untruths, we will clarify things. That is
what we are saying.
I would like to tell the member that if she wants to tell me
about the honeymoon of the Bloc Quebecois and the Reform Party,
I would be happy to spread that around Canada.
Mr. Stéphane Bergeron (Verchères, BQ): Mr. Speaker, not only is
the Minister of Public Works and main organizer of the Liberal
Party in Quebec responsible for the CIO, but now he is also
co-ordinating all government publicity.
What is the reason behind this odd co-incidence, which means that
the main organizer of the Liberal Party in Quebec now has
responsibility for the entire federal government propaganda
machine?
Hon. Alfonso Gagliano (Minister of Public Works and Government
Services, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I see that separatist Bloc members
are beginning to get worried even though the election campaign
is not yet under way in Quebec. Can you imagine what they will
be like when it begins?
As president of the cabinet communications committee, I
co-ordinate the government's activities and information and
ensure that all ministers of the Canadian government speak with
one voice. It is not a propaganda machine. Propaganda is part
of the mentality of the separatist Bloc members who want—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
The Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The hon. member for
Verchères now has the floor.
Mr. Stéphane Bergeron (Verchères, BQ): Mr. Speaker, does this
mean the main organizer of the Liberal Party in Quebec is
telling us that Ottawa does not trust Jean Charest any more than
it trusted Daniel Johnson and that it prefers to run the next
election campaign in Quebec itself?
Hon. Alfonso Gagliano (Minister of Public Works and Government
Services, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, we have great
confidence in Jean Charest. It was the separatist Bloc members
who began attacking Jean Charest, even while he was still a
member in this House, as soon as he announced his intention to
run for the leadership of the Liberal Party of Quebec and to
become the next premier of that province.
We have nothing to learn from these members, who are here for
one reason only, and that is to break up Canada.
* * *
[English]
THE ATLANTIC GROUNDFISH STRATEGY
Mr. Bill Blaikie (Winnipeg—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker,
my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.
The post-TAGS package that has been offered by the Liberals and
that has been made public in recent days shows that the
government just does not seem to get the severity of the crisis,
of the social catastrophe, that is facing our coastal
communities. Many thousands of Canadian families and their
communities are facing a form of extinction.
When will the government appreciate the full gravity of the
situation? When will it commit the kind of political will and
resources that it has not yet being willing to do?
Or, is this most recent proposal just as trial balloon sent up
to make Brian Tobin look like a hero when he eventually
negotiates an increase in this inadequate sum?
Hon. Fred Mifflin (Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary
of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency), Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the hon. member knows that the government is not in the
habit of responding to media speculation. The hon. member also
knows that members on this side of the House are working very
hard and very assiduously with the provincial governments to come
up with a program.
The government is working flat out to finalize a program to
restructure the fishery and to reorganize the program in such a
way that those who are in need will get the necessary adjustment
programs.
Mr. Peter Stoffer (Sackville—Eastern Shore, NDP): Mr.
Speaker, that is why, with remarks like that from the veterans
affairs minister, the people of Atlantic Canada have no trust in
the government.
The government has had six years to come up with a comprehensive
package for the people on the east coast and those in Quebec.
Why is the government abandoning its responsibility for the
people on the east coast? Why, in God's name, will it not do
something for those people now?
Hon. Fred Mifflin (Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary
of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency), Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I assume with that rhetoric there is some emotion. I
know there is a lot of emotion; I live in Atlantic Canada and I
have relatives in the business.
The government's record for looking after those in the fishery
is pretty good and I expect it will continue to be in the future.
* * *
1130
THE ECONOMY
Mr. Scott Brison (Kings—Hants, PC): Mr. Speaker,
yesterday the share value of Canada's dollar hit record lows.
Our floating exchange rate is being used by this government as a
camouflage for flawed domestic economic policies. One of the
forces exerting downward force on the Canadian dollar is that 20%
of Canada's debt matured this year and yet this government has
yet to commit to firm debt reduction targets.
When will this government commit to those firm debt reduction
targets that would send out the appropriate message?
Mr. Tony Valeri (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there are a number of factors
that have been impacting on the performance of the dollar
recently, lower commodity prices and the uncertainty about
economic developments in some Asian countries.
However, let us be clear that the underlying fundamentals are
behind a Canadian economy that remains strong. The OECD, for
example, estimates that Canada will have the best fiscal
performance in the entire G-7. Output and employment growth have
been robust and inflation continues to be low. We are on a track
that will continue to see this country grow right into the next
millennium because the fundamentals are right.
Mr. Scott Brison (Kings—Hants, PC): Mr. Speaker, this
government's leadership is sounding very similar to the former
leadership in Indonesia, blaming the guys in red suspenders for
the weakness in the Canadian dollar.
I would ask this government to do what it has done over the past
four years and take advice from a Conservative because this
government has used Conservative policies, including free trade,
the GST and the deregulation of financial services in
transportation, to reduce the deficit.
I now beseech this government to again take advice from a
Conservative and provide this country with the leadership it
needs. We need reduced taxes and we need a commitment to lower
debt to provide the strength for the Canadian dollar in the long
term.
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, if we took advice from the Conservatives we would still
have a $42 billion deficit. If we took advice from the
Conservatives we would still have unemployment at least 3% higher
than we have today. If we took advice from the Conservatives we
would have record high interest rates and inflation.
Canadians say to the Conservatives no thank you, they do not
need any more of that kind of advice.
* * *
NATIONAL DEFENCE
Mr. Art Hanger (Calgary Northeast, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, in
the videotape of Private Dickey's interrogation or interview by
military police officers she was told that the investigation
would be dropped or suspended unless she came up with more
evidence of sexual abuse.
What kind of investigative unit would ask the victim to go out
and gather her own evidence in order to bring her attacker to
trial?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the investigation continues as confirmed by the chief
provost marshal, the head of the national investigative service.
Why does the hon. member not let the investigation continue and
at the end of the investigation questions of that sort, if
necessary, can be gone into further?
Mr. Art Hanger (Calgary Northeast, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
the hon. Deputy Prime Minister should have informed the defence
minister of that caution before he spoke out to the media.
This investigation sucks. I was an investigator with the police
department for 12 years and the investigation conducted by the
NIS is shoddy at best. Victims of sexual assault need to know
that their complaint is going to be handled fairly and
professionally.
How can any victim of sexual assault be convinced that their
complaints will be properly—
The Deputy Speaker: I urge all hon. members to be
cautious in their use of language both in the questions and in
the answers.
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I am sure that when the hon. member was a police officer
conducting investigations for 12 years he did not engage in a
debate with third parties and the press about how he was doing
his work.
I ask the hon. member to apply to this situation the same
approach he took in conducting his investigations, not conducting
and debating them with third parties but carrying on his work so
that the investigation would not be prejudiced.
Why is he asking in a way that is aimed at prejudicing the
investigation instead of letting it come out with a fair and
reasonable conclusion based on the investigation?
* * *
[Translation]
ATLANTIC GROUNDFISH STRATEGY
Mr. Yvan Bernier (Bonaventure—Gaspé—Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Pabok, BQ):
Mr. Speaker, this morning, we read in the papers that the
government is about to announce a $550 million program to replace
TAGS.
1135
This paltry measure represents only 25% of the previous program
and is considered definitely insufficient by angry fishing
communities.
Is the deputy prime minister aware that a mere $550 million to
replace the Altantic Groundfish Strategy will not nearly be
enough to placate the angry and dispirited fishers from the
Magdalen Islands, from the Gaspé area and—
The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Veterans Affairs.
[English]
Hon. Fred Mifflin (Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary
of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency), Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I think the hon. member knows this is pure speculation
and I am not going to comment on that.
We are very much aware of the situation. We have heard him and
members in the House. We know each other and I think he knows
that when this program is finalized it will address those issues
he and other members of the House are concerned about
The government is working very hard to put this program together
and it will be announced in the very near future.
[Translation]
Mr. Yvan Bernier (Bonaventure—Gaspé—Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Pabok, BQ):
Mr. Speaker, of course, people speculate when they see that the
members opposite are taking too much time to react.
By setting aside a mere $550 million to replace TAGS, the
Minister of Human Resources Development is only deferring the
problem, since it will take just six months to go through this
money.
Does the government realize that, with only 25% of the budget of
the previous program, it will be unable to take proactive
measures to reorient the fish workers and will only point them
towards civil disobedience?
[English]
Hon. Fred Mifflin (Minister of Veterans Affairs and
Secretary of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency),
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I know the hon. member is not given to
alarmist statements and superlatives that would exacerbate the
situation.
We are very much aware there is a lot of anxiety in the Atlantic
provinces and in Quebec. This process takes time because we have
to consult with the province. We have to make sure we take the
time to get it right because this has to be an excellent
strategy. It has to be right and it has to be done soon.
* * *
ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS
Mr. Mike Scott (Skeena, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, the minister
of Indian Affairs knows that the Delgamuukw decision has created
a great deal of uncertainty in British Columbia. She knows that
the native summit is claiming 100% of the province and she knows
that some bands are now taking action to stop logging and mining.
The minister says the way out of this is to negotiate, but that
process to date has not produced any results.
How long does she think British Columbians will have to wait to
see a resolution to this problem?
Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern
Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, not only I think the right
approach is to negotiate aboriginal rights, it is the people of
British Columbia, 9 out of 10, who say that the appropriate thing
to do is settle land claims at the negotiating table.
It is the business community in British Columbia that
understands settling land claims will add to the GDP of the
province.
It is the supreme court which directs us to find in these modern
times an appropriate way to reconcile aboriginal rights and
directs us to do it at the negotiating table.
Mr. Mike Scott (Skeena, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, it is the
business community in British Columbia that said not one more
nickel of investment in that province until this issue is
resolved.
The track record of the government is zero in seven; seven years
of negotiating, not one agreement, over one hundred bands that
qualify to be in negotiations.
The people of British Columbia deserve to know. How long will
they have to wait to see this uncertainty cleared up and the
question of land ownership in British Columbia resolved once and
for all?
Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern
Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, let us clarify another
thing. If we want to talk about the B.C. business community, let
us look at what Milton Wong, a prominent B.C. business person,
said about the treaty process.
He said that through the treaty framework we can establish a
social, political and economic certainty that will encourage
investment in British Columbia and therefore be of enormous help
to business communities across the province.
We have made progress. When we took office there was one table
in action, now there are over 50. There are 30 that have
frameworks of action in place and we are proceeding to agreements
in principle.
* * *
[Translation]
CONTRABAND TOBACCO
Mr. Yvan Loubier (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
yesterday, the Government of Quebec announced that it would
replace the QST with a specific tax collected at the source by
manufacturers and wholesalers, which would go a long way toward
solving the cigarette contraband problem on native reserves and
would allow the Quebec government to recover lost revenues from
uncollected taxes.
My question is for the Minister of Finance. Does the federal
government intend to harmonize its policy what that of Quebec by
replacing the GST with a specific tax collected at the source on
tobacco products?
1140
[English]
Mr. Tony Valeri (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, certainly the federal government
is concerned about illegal activities and continues to work
closely with the provinces and law enforcement agencies to
control the sale of contraband goods.
However, we are not in favour of removing the GST on tobacco
products. We feel that only goods essential to the well-being of
Canadians should be exempt from sales tax such as basic food
items, prescription drugs and medical devices. Clearly tobacco
products do not fall into this category.
[Translation]
Mr. Yvan Loubier (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, BQ): Mr. Speaker, in
five years this government has done nothing to fight
contraband, to eliminate this black market estimated at $6
billion a year according to the auditor general.
It is a lot easier to take money from the employment insurance
fund, to take money from the unemployed and the sick, than to
fight contraband.
There is a simple solution to that problem. Will the minister
apply this intelligent solution proposed by Quebec, a practical
solution that would allow the government to recover millions of
dollars in uncollected taxes on contraband cigarettes?
[English]
Mr. Tony Valeri (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as I said, the federal
government is concerned about illegal activities. I said quite
clearly that we will continue to work closely with the provinces
and also with law enforcement agencies to control the sale of
contraband products.
Quite clearly I stated earlier and I will restate that this
government is not in favour of removing the GST on tobacco
products. We will remove the GST on those products which we feel
are essential to the well-being of Canadians. Again, tobacco does
not fall into that category.
* * *
ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE
Mr. Jack Ramsay (Crowfoot, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, we have
now learned that the RCMP used money derived from the drug trade
and organized crime to finance its Montreal based money
laundering sting operation because of a lack of government
funding. This lack of resources also contributed to the overall
failure of this important undercover operation.
Why has the government denied the RCMP the resources to do its
job? What has the government to say about the use of money
derived from the drug trade and organized crime to finance
portions of this operation?
[Translation]
Hon. Marcel Massé (President of the Treasury Board and Minister
responsible for Infrastructure, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as the
solicitor general indicated yesterday, he has asked the RCMP
commissioner to make a complete review of this case. He will
then make the appropriate decisions based on the full report
that will be provided to him.
[English]
Mr. Jake E. Hoeppner (Portage—Lisgar, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, RCMP informant John McKay was an agent working on a
smuggling investigation in Manitoba called operation decode.
After receiving death threats, including a sympathy card sent to
his mother, McKay asked for protection and was denied. He was
murdered within months.
I would like to ask this government why the RCMP did not protect
the life of John MacKay. Something is very wrong.
Hon. Marcel Massé (President of the Treasury Board and
Minister responsible for Infrastructure, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
in the absence of the solicitor general I will take note of the
facts that were brought forth by my hon. colleague and ask the
office of the solicitor general to answer in writing as soon as
possible.
* * *
[Translation]
SCRAPIE
Ms. Hélène Alarie (Louis-Hébert, BQ): Mr. Speaker, 8,000 sheep
have been slaughtered in Quebec in an effort to eradicate the
sheep disease called scrapie. This measure was taken without a
full report from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, and for a
disease that does not affect human health. Producers are
desperate for help.
The industry is still waiting for an answer from the Minister of
Agriculture. What does the government intend to do to help the
sheep industry, and when will it act?
Hon. Gilbert Normand (Secretary of State (Agriculture and
Agri-Food)(Fisheries and Oceans), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I thank the
hon. member for her interest in this issue.
Scrapie is indeed a problem that greatly concerns the Department
of Agriculture and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. Between
7,000 and 8,000 sheep were slaughtered, and we are currently
conducting an economic analysis with the industry to change
certain criteria and see if any compensation is possible.
Breeders currently receive $150 for ordinary sheep and $300 for
purebred sheep. However, this is not a crop insurance, but an
incentive to report sick animals.
* * *
1145
[English]
FOREIGN AFFAIRS
Mrs. Rose-Marie Ur (Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the situation in Kosovo is rapidly deteriorating with
thousands of refugees fleeing their homes. The international
community has an obligation to act and to act quickly. Will the
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs report
to the House on what precise actions this government is taking to
help stabilize the situation in that troubled region of the
world?
Mr. Ted McWhinney (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Foreign Affairs, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we are concerned about
the level of violence and the plight of refugees in that region.
At this moment the foreign minister is meeting with the G-8
foreign ministers and we are agreeing on collective measures.
These include security enhancement in neighbouring countries and
an immediate increase in humanitarian aid.
At the national level we have frozen all Serbian Yugoslav assets
in Canada and we have banned all export of funds to Serbia
Yugoslavia but we will act in concert. It is a grave problem for
one of the most delicate areas of the world.
* * *
FISHERIES
Mr. John Duncan (Vancouver Island North, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, we see on the front page of the Globe and Mail
that the minister of fisheries is going to throw more money at
the fishing industry. We agree that money is necessary but there
must be a plan on how to spend it.
The all-party fisheries committee tabled a plan for the west
coast over two months ago but we still have no direction from the
minister. Now we are only two weeks away from the start of the
salmon season. Why is the minister so reluctant to address the
particular problems of the industry?
Mr. Wayne Easter (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Fisheries and Oceans, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the minister is not
at all reluctant to address the problems in the salmon industry.
He has met with fishermen consistently. He has gone through the
fisheries committee report and he certainly thanks the committee
for the report.
The other day the minister announced a conservation framework to
protect and rebuild B.C. coho stocks starting with more action as
needed to protect and restore the salmon habitat itself. More
action is needed to address the structural problems in the
commercial fishery, including overcapacity and economic
viability.
Mr. John Reynolds (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, Ref.):
Mr. Speaker, the former and present ministers of fisheries have
watched the demise of the east coast fishery in Canada to the
shame of all Canadians.
Can the minister or the government advise this House of what
they are doing differently in British Columbia to make sure we do
not have the problem in British Columbia five years from now that
we presently have in eastern Canada?
Mr. Wayne Easter (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Fisheries and Oceans, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it is obvious the
member opposite has not been following what the government has
been doing on a number of fronts as opposed to what has happened
in the past when he was a member of the former B.C. government
before he became a Reformer. We are taking strong conservation
measures. We have learned some lessons from the demise of the
Atlantic cod. As the Minister of Veterans Affairs answered
earlier in relation to the ongoing TAGS problem, we are looking
to address that, to address the structural problem, economic
difficulties and community problems.
* * *
[Translation]
EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
Ms. Angela Vautour (Beauséjour—Petitcodiac, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I
must say that, during my first year here, I learned one thing:
we need a surgeon in the House to perform heart transplants,
because the Liberals have no hearts.
We hear ministers who keep saying that Canadians are proud of
the employment insurance reform. I am here to tell you that this
is not the case.
There are people in my region who are hungry, there are children
who live in poverty, there are workers who lose their jobs, and
then there are Liberals who try to defend their reform.
With a $17 billion surplus, when will the Liberals show some
leadership and start thinking—
The Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of Public Works.
Hon. Alfonso Gagliano (Minister of Public Works and Government
Services, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources
Development answered that question many times.
The employment insurance reform has allowed seasonal workers,
women and young people to accumulate the hours of work required
to qualify for employment insurance. The system works. In those
areas where it does not work, the minister is looking at other
options and waiting for the reports to make the necessary
adjustments.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
Hon. Alfonso Gagliano: But the hon. member would rather shout
than listen to the answer.
* * *
1150
[English]
MEXICO
Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I was a
member of the parliamentary delegation in Mexico last month. I
think all of us were pleased to hear the minister of the interior
of that country assure us that his government would never resort
to violence to end the insurrection in Chiapas. However, deaths
of nine more Mexicans on Wednesday shattered such bland
assurances.
My question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. When will
the Government of Canada show some intestinal fortitude not only
by condemning publicly its NAFTA ally, but also by suspending its
export credits and other agreements unless there are ironclad
commitments immediately against the Government of Mexico to stop
this war against its indigenous people?
Hon. David Kilgour (Secretary of State (Latin America and
Africa), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for
Palliser for bringing this latest matter to my attention
yesterday outside the Chamber.
The member knows very well that the government is extremely
concerned about what is going on in Chiapas. We met with him and
with the members of the delegation last week as he will recall. I
can only assure him in the minister's absence that we continue to
monitor the situation very, very carefully. I thank him for
bringing this matter to the attention of the House.
* * *
YEAR 2000 PROBLEM
Mr. Jim Jones (Markham, PC): Mr. Speaker, a serious
situation exists in the marketplace today. It is so serious that
it undermines the race against the clock that government and
industry have been waging against the year 2000 millennium bug.
Incredibly it is still possible for consumers to unknowingly
purchase Y2K non-compliant computer products.
My question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Will he agree to
set a date for Y2K compliance of all computer hardware and
software devices and incorporate it into the Canadian Standards
Act?
Mr. Walt Lastewka (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Industry, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member opposite knows
full well that the work on the Y2K program has been extensive
within this government and outside with business and industry.
The continuous programs as brought forward by the Monty report
and the soon to become Statistics Canada report on the progress
of the Y2K program is very effective for making sure that this
country is ready for Y2K.
Mr. Jim Jones (Markham, PC): Mr. Speaker, that is an
unacceptable answer. Caveat emptor is an unacceptable response
to an issue of this magnitude. Governments and business continue
to invest too much money and effort into this battle against the
millennium bug to accept such a hands-off approach. October 1,
1998, sell any Y2K non-compliant product after this date and pay
the price. What is wrong with this solution?
Hon. Ronald J. Duhamel (Secretary of State (Science,
Research and Development)(Western Economic Diversification),
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as has already been indicated every
single initiative by the government has been undertaken to make
sure that there is no Y2K problem in the year 2000.
Internally and externally we have been communicating with all
the people with whom we do business. We have been advising them
of the problem and it is up to them to take the action required.
In fact, they can do so even more easily as a result of the
announcement of the Minister of Finance yesterday. They can now
deduct those initiatives. They can demand that these items be
compliant and they will do so.
* * *
YOUTH EMPLOYMENT
Mr. John McKay (Scarborough East, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my
question is addressed to the President of the Treasury Board.
Canada's youth unemployment is nearly double that of any other
age group. Thousands of young Canadians are looking for work to
complete their education.
As the largest employer in the country, can the President of the
Treasury Board tell this House what this government is doing to
alleviate this desperate situation for students?
Hon. Marcel Massé (President of the Treasury Board and
Minister responsible for Infrastructure, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
as part of the federal public sector youth internship program, 94
interns are now acquiring skills at federal worksites in Halifax,
Montreal, Toronto, Edmonton and Vancouver. This year we are
creating an additional 551 internships for graduates, 579
internships for non-graduates and our target of 1,130 is being
met. This is an excellent example of co-operation between the
federal government and non-government organizations in assisting
Canada's youth.
* * *
ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS
Mr. Darrel Stinson (Okanagan—Shuswap, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, the minister of Indian affairs has stood in this House
and has said that the B.C. treaty process is working. She knows
full well that when she met with the interior chiefs they said no
to the B.C. treaty process due to the supreme court decision in
the Delgamuukw case.
I would like the minister to state in this House today whether
she believes that that supreme court decision is creating great
uncertainty in the province of British Columbia, not only with
the investment sector but also with all the Indian bands in B.C.
1155
Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern
Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as far as I am concerned the
only thing creating uncertainty in British Columbia are the
members of the Reform Party. They have yet to provide any kind of
credible solutions to the issue of settling land claims. They
have nothing that is workable. They have nothing sustainable. I
would like to quote Chief Joe Mathias of the First Nations Summit
who said “Reform's so-called solution is terribly misguided and
will create a lot more chaos and economic uncertainty than
presently exists in the system”.
* * *
[Translation]
HOUSING CONSTRUCTION IN NUNAVIK
Mr. Claude Bachand (Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Speaker, my question is
for the Minister of Indian Affairs.
The federal government has already acknowledged the importance
of making up for lost time as far as home construction in
Nunavik, Northern Quebec is concerned. Yet it stopped funding
housing construction in 1995, and Quebec continues to do this on
its own.
Does the minister realize that, apart from not helping solve the
housing crisis in Nunavik, her inaction contravenes the James
Bay Agreement, which the federal government itself signed.
[English]
Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern
Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, indeed implementing the
James Bay-Northern Quebec agreement is a priority for this
government and it has to be done in partnership with the province
of Quebec.
The issue of housing is one that is great and is spread across
this country. Making sure that aboriginal communities have good
basic housing, water and sewers is fundamental to their capacity
to participate in the Canadian society.
We are working in partnership with the First Nations and in most
cases with the province of Quebec to proceed with continuing to
alleviate this issue.
* * *
ABORIGINAL AFFAIRS
Mr. Gordon Earle (Halifax West, NDP): Mr. Speaker,
residential schools operated with the philosophy of “killing the
Indian in the child ”. It is time the government showed
leadership by directly addressing the multitude of court cases
launched by survivors.
In light of the recent B.C. court decision assessing
responsibility to both government and the churches, will this
government instigate formal talks involving survivors and the
churches to try to arrive at a speedy and satisfactory solution,
or will the government allow the pain and frustration of the
survivors to be drawn out over years of court battles?
Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern
Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this government has taken
concrete action with regard to the issue of the residential
school strategy. On January 7th along with my colleague the
interlocutor we announced Canada's response to the royal
commission. In that we presented a statement of reconciliation
to aboriginal people where we identified to those people who
suffered physical and sexual abuse at residential schools that it
was not their fault. In addition to that we identified $350
million of new money to help communities and assist them in
beginning the healing process that is the legacy of the
residential school system.
* * *
POSTAL SERVICE
Mr. Mark Muise (West Nova, PC): Mr. Speaker, Canada's
aging population is increasingly choosing to relocate to senior
citizen complexes. Many of these seniors find access to their
postal services difficult especially during winter conditions.
Could the minister responsible for Canada Post tell this House
whether steps have been taken to ensure that all senior citizen
complexes are provided with postal delivery?
Hon. Alfonso Gagliano (Minister of Public Works and
Government Services, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, Canada Post
Corporation is looking into this to ensure that senior citizen
residents are receiving the appropriate mail. In New Brunswick
because of the change of the restructuring of the 911 we are
looking at each individual case. We want to ensure everyone
receives their mail and especially that seniors receive their
mail where they live.
* * *
THE SENATE
Mr. Rob Anders (Calgary West, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, the
Prime Minister appointed five new senators yesterday, including
the former president of the Liberal Party's Judy LaMarsh fund and
a former special assistant to the Liberal Minister of Finance.
Both are unelected and therefore unaccountable.
Will the Prime Minister stop electing Liberal fundraisers to
patronage positions? I ask the Deputy Prime Minister, will the
PM recognize the will of Canadians and appoint the senators
elected in Alberta on October 19?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the people appointed to the Senate pursuant to the
requirements of the Constitution are people of distinction in
their communities with respect to community work and work in
their professions and businesses. We should be pleased that
people of that calibre have agreed to serve in the Senate.
I do not think Canadians want the Reform approach of electing
people for life without the ability to do anything about it until
the age of 75.
1200
If there are people worried about the left wing of the Liberal
Party, they should be reassured by the appointment of Senator
Mahovlich.
* * *
[Translation]
JEAN-LESAGE AIRPORT IN SAINTE-FOY
Mr. Michel Guimond (Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, BQ): Mr.
Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transport.
The Jean-Lesage International Airport in Sainte-Foy is one of the
airports listed for privatization by the end of this year.
Can the minister give us a progress report on the negotiations
under way, and promise us that the deadline will be met?
Hon. David M. Collenette (Minister of Transport, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, it is obvious that the government must follow the
timetable for transferring the airports to the local
communities.
Negotiations are currently under way between the
parties in Quebec City, and I intend to see this concluded
within the next few months.
* * *
ATLANTIC GROUNDFISH STRATEGY
Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie—Bathurst, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the rumour in
this morning's papers is that the government would give the
Atlantic provinces and Quebec $550 million for TAGS.
In the month of May alone, thousands of people stopped
qualifying for TAGS. They were no longer eligible.
My question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Will those who
have lost their eligibility for TAGS be able to qualify, or is
it just going to be the ones who go off it in August?
[English]
Hon. Fred Mifflin (Minister of Veterans Affairs and Secretary
of State (Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency), Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I can tell the hon. member with respect to the dollar
figure that it is pure speculation. I also want to tell him that
this program will restructure the fishery and will look after all
those who need it the most.
The Deputy Speaker: That terminates question period for
today. Just in case we adjourn later today, I hope all members
get a chance to do some fishing this summer.
* * *
INDIVIDUAL MEMBER'S EXPENDITURES
The Deputy Speaker: I have the honour to lay upon the
table the document entitled “Individual Member's Expenditures”
for the fiscal year ended March 31, 1998.
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
[Translation]
GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO PETITIONS
Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table, in
both official languages, the government's response to 30
petitions.
* * *
[English]
COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
FINANCE
Mr. Maurizio Bevilacqua (Vaughan—King—Aurora, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both officials
languages, the seventh report of the Standing Committee on
Finance entitled “Report on Tied Selling—Section 45.1 of the
Bank Act”.
* * *
FEDERAL LAW-CIVIL LAW HARMONIZATION ACT, NO. 1
Hon. Fred Mifflin (for the Minister of Justice) moved for
leave to introduce Bill C-50, a first act to harmonize federal
law with the civil law of the Province of Quebec and to amend
certain acts in order to ensure that each language version takes
into account the common law and the civil law.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and
printed)
* * *
[Translation]
CRIMINAL CODE
Hon. Marcel Massé (on behalf of the Minister of Justice) moved
for leave to introduce Bill C-51, an act to amend the Criminal
Code, the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act and the
Corrections and Conditional Release Act.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and
printed)
* * *
1205
BANK ACT
Mr. Réal Ménard (Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, BQ) moved for leave to
introduce Bill C-428, an act to amend the Bank Act and the
Statistics Act (equity in community reinvestment).
He said: Mr. Speaker, I again introduce a bill calling on the
banks to invest in the community, that is, to strike a balance
between deposits received and loans made, particularly for
disadvantaged communities.
I am optimistic that I will have the support of all my
colleagues in the House.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and
printed)
* * *
[English]
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA
Hon. Don Boudria (Leader of the Government in the House of
Commons, Lib.) moved:
That hours of sitting and order of business of the House on
Thursday, September 24, 1998, shall be those provided in the
Standing Orders for a Wednesday:
That the Address of the President of the Republic of South
Africa, to be delivered in the Chamber of the House of Commons at
10.20 a.m. on Thursday, September 24, 1998, before Members of the
Senate and of the House Commons, together with all introductory
and related remarks, be printed as an appendix to the House of
Commons Debates for that day and form part of the records
of this House; and
That the media recording and transmission of such address,
introductory and related remarks be authorized pursuant to
established guidelines for such occasions.
The Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to
adopt the motion?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
(Motion agreed to)
* * *
PETITIONS
YOUNG OFFENDERS ACT
Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC):
Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure, pursuant to Standing
Order 36, to present a petition on behalf of the constituents of
Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough with respect to changing the
Young Offenders Act.
They call upon parliament to inject, among other things, greater
measures of parental responsibilities and to make changes to the
Young Offenders Act that will increase accountability by youth
involved in crime.
It gives me great pleasure to table the petition in the House
today on behalf of my constituents.
MARRIAGE
Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC):
Mr. Speaker, I have a second petition also from the riding of
Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough calling upon parliament to
reaffirm the concept of marriage to ensure that the traditional
concept of marriage is preserved and protected in Canada.
I also table this petition on behalf of my constituents.
GUN CONTROL
Mr. John Duncan (Vancouver Island North, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, I have a petition with 25 signatures from Courtenay and
Campbell River in my riding.
The petitioners ask parliament to repeal Bill C-68 and to
redirect the funds for registering firearms into more cost
effective measures such as more police on the streets, more crime
prevention, more suicide prevention, more women's crisis centres,
more anti-smuggling campaigns and more resources for fighting
organized crime and street gangs.
MARRIAGE
Mr. John Duncan (Vancouver Island North, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, I also have two petitions signed by individuals from
Campbell River, Courtenay and Comox in my riding.
The petitioners are asking parliament to enact Bill C-225, an
act to amend the Marriage Act and the Interpretation Act, to
define that a marriage can only be entered into between a single
male and a single female.
[Translation]
COPYRIGHT
Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski—Mitis, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I wish
to table a petition on behalf of the Society of Composers,
Authors and Music Publishers of Canada, better known as SOCAN,
calling on the government to respect the principle of collective
management of copyright and requesting the Minister of Industry
to immediately appoint a judge to chair the Copyright Board,
thus giving effect to Parliament's intention that the board be a
competent and objective quasi-judicial tribunal.
1210
[English]
THE SENATE
Mr. Bill Blaikie (Winnipeg—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker,
I have a number of petitions to present today, the first one
being a petition of many hundreds of names gathered by an
organization in my riding called People in Equal Participation.
The petition calls upon parliament to take measures to amend the
Constitution of Canada in order to restructure the Senate of
Canada to become more effective and efficient in carrying out its
role within the federal government and to reduce the number of
senators from 104 to three regional representatives per province
or territory, totalling 36 elected senators.
MULTILATERAL AGREEMENT ON INVESTMENT
Mr. Bill Blaikie (Winnipeg—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker,
as I have on many previous days I have literally thousands and
thousands of names to present on petitions having to do with the
multilateral agreement on investment. They keep on coming in
from across the country. Even though the MAI negotiations have
been somewhat stalled, people realize that the battle against the
MAI continues.
They call upon parliament to reject the current framework of MAI
negotiations. They instruct the government to seek an entirely
different agreement by which the world might achieve a rules
based global trading regime that protects workers, the
environment and the ability of governments to act in the public
interest.
COPYRIGHT BOARD
Mr. John McKay (Scarborough East, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I
have the honour to present on behalf of the member for
Parkdale—High Park a petition calling upon the Parliament of
Canada and the Minister of Industry to strongly reaffirm its
commitment to chair the copyright board immediately upon a
judgment with respect to parliament's intent.
I would appreciate if it could be accepted by parliament.
TOBACCO ACT
Mr. Charlie Power (St. John's West, PC): Mr. Speaker, I
wish to present a petition on behalf of my colleague for
Burin—St. George's.
The petition, signed by several hundred Newfoundlanders, is
asking the House of Commons to reject any bills that would weaken
the sponsorship provisions of the Tobacco Act, a petition that
both the member for Burin—St. George's and I enthusiastically
support.
PROSTITUTION
Mr. Eric Lowther (Calgary Centre, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I
have another petition to introduce from Calgarians concerned
about offences related to prostitution. They feel that section
213 of the Criminal Code should be a hybrid offence so that these
offences could be prosecuted as either a summary or indictable
offence.
They call on the government to make such a change and give
authorities greater flexibility to address the problem of
prostitution.
I currently have Bill C-397 which proposes to make these very
changes and the petitioners encourage every member to support
Bill C-397.
[Translation]
JUSTICE
Mr. Pierre Brien (Témiscamingue, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I rise today
to table part of a petition signed by 10,000 people from
Abitibi-Témiscamingue and elsewhere in Quebec. This petition
came about because of the events at Taschereau on May 4, 1998,
in which two people lost their lives.
This petition calls for a review of the criteria for granting
parole under certain circumstances.
I will forward the full petition to the Minister of Justice so
that she may proceed and give these people satisfaction.
[English]
MULTILATERAL AGREEMENT ON INVESTMENT
Mr. John Solomon (Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, NDP): Mr.
Speaker, I am pleased to present a petition today from a number
of people across the country with respect to the multilateral
agreement on investment.
These people are very concerned about the fact the negotiations
that happened in the past were secret. They are very much
opposed to the fact that the Government of Canada is encouraging
one Don Johnston in charge of the OECD to continue to negotiate
this sort of agreement in secret without any authority.
They ask parliament to reject the current framework of the MAI
negotiations. They instruct governments to seek an entirely
different agreement by which other people can be included with
respect to drawing up this agreement, not just Don Johnston and
the Government of Canada.
MARRIAGE
Mr. Andrew Telegdi (Kitchener—Waterloo, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I have a petition signed by 52 petitioners in support of
Bill C-225, an act to amend the Marriage Act and Immigration Act,
so as to define in statute that a marriage can only be entered
into between a single male and a single female.
Mr. Mike Scott (Skeena, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased
on behalf of constituents in Smithers and Takla in my
constituency of Skeena to table a petition.
The effect of the petition is that a marriage can only be
legally defined as the union of a single male and a single
female.
[Translation]
EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
Mr. Claude Bachand (Saint-Jean, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I have the
honour of tabling a petition signed by over 1,000 ice storm
victims. These are workers who lost their jobs during the first
two weeks of disruption caused by the ice storm.
The petitioners are asking Parliament to abolish the two-week
waiting period before getting a first employment insurance
cheque.
1215
CRIMINAL CODE
Mr. Gordon Earle (Halifax West, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I have the
honour of tabling a petition pursuant to Standing Order 26.
[English]
This petition signed by over 100 people deals with the
provocation defence currently used in femicide, wife slaughter
cases.
The petitioners point out that such a defence unjustly focuses
the criminal trial from the behaviour of the accused to the
behaviour of the victim. The petitioners indicate that the
defence is not consistent with community values and with the
requirement that males take responsibility for violent behaviour
toward women.
The petitioners request that parliament review and change
relevant provisions of the Criminal Code to ensure that men who
act violently toward women take responsibilities for their
actions.
MARRIAGE
Mr. Darrel Stinson (Okanagan—Shuswap, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, it is my pleasure to table a petition from 38
constituents who are opposed to possible new definitions of
marriage.
They ask the House to enact Bill C-225, an act to amend the
Marriage Act to ensure that marriage could only be entered into
between a single male and a single female, an issue very
essential for preserving the basic building block of society
which is the family.
MIDDLE EAST
Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I have the
honour and privilege today to introduce three petitions.
The first one is on behalf of my colleague, the member for
Vancouver East. It relates to the Middle East and specifically
requests that there be a recall of all Canadian military
personnel and equipment now taking part in the blockade of Iraq
and use all possible diplomatic pressures to urge the United
Nations to end the sanctions against Iraq. This petition has been
signed by 224 Canadians.
IMMIGRATION
Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the second
petition is on behalf of my colleague, the member for Yukon,
and consists of 344 names.
The petitioners call on parliament to instruct the government to
re-evaluate its policy with respect to undocumented convention
refugees in Canada class and consider implementation of the 1996
recommendation of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and
Immigration on this matter.
MULTILATERAL AGREEMENT ON INVESTMENT
Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I have a
petition with 72 names from the residents of Palliser expressing
ongoing concern about the multilateral agreement on investment,
on which we have already heard from my colleagues for
Winnipeg—Transcona and the member for Regina—Lumsden—Lake
Centre.
* * *
QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER
Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this
is something of a special occasion.
The following questions will be answered today: Nos. 21 and 94.
.[Text]
Mr. Peter MacKay:
Which ministers of the Government of Canada visited the
Drummondville-Trois-Rivières vicinity between August 2, 1996 and
June 2, 1997?
Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Gouvernment in the House of Commons, Lib.): I am informed as
follows:
The following ministers and secretary of state visited the
Drummondville-Trois-Rivières vicinity between August 2, 1996 and
June 2, 1997: Minister of Citizenship and Immigration; Minister
of Human Resources Development; Minister of Industry; Minister
responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board; President of the
Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of
Intergovernmental Affairs; Prime Minister; President of the
Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure;
Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the
Regions of Quebec).
Other ministers and secretaries of state reported that they did
not visit the Drummondville-Trois-Rivières vicinity between
August 2, 1996 and June 2, 1997.
Mr. Peter MacKay:
With regard to the application by the province of Nova Scotia to
Revenue Canada for a $16 million refund to compensate a tax
overpayment made by Nova Scotia Power, Inc. when it was a crown
corporation: (/a/) what is the status of the review of this
application by the Department of Justice; and (/b/) when will the
department release its decision, if it has not done so already?
Hon. Harbance Singh Dhaliwal (Minister of National Revenue,
Lib.): The provisions of section 241 of the Income Tax Act, on
confidentiality of information, preclude the disclosure of
information without the taxpayer's consent.
[English]
Mr. Mark Muise: Mr. Speaker, I rise on point of order. First
I thank the hon. parliamentary secretary for answering Question
No. 21. I am also wondering if we could possibly know when we
could expect an answer to Question No. 94.
Mr. Peter Adams: Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to say that we
just did.
The Deputy Speaker: I trust that clarifies that matter.
Mr. Peter Adams: Mr. Speaker, I ask that the remaining
questions be allowed to stand.
The Deputy Speaker: I that agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
* * *
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Hon. Don Boudria (Leader of the Government in the House of
Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, all parties have been consulted.
I wish to seek unanimous consent for the following. I move:
That immediately after Bill C-38 is disposed of, Government
Order, Government Business No. 15 shall be deemed carried and the
House shall thereupon adjourn.
This is the item previously agreed to among House leaders in
terms of the allocation of opposition days, restoring the closure
motion, to adjourn and so on.
(Motion agreed to)
* * *
1220
COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
FISHERIES AND OCEANS
Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there
has been consultation and I think you will find agreement for the
following travel orders. I move:
That 10 members of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans
be authorized to travel to Iceland for approximately five days
during the period September 12 to September 19, 1998 in relation
to the committee's study of management of the Department of
Fisheries and Oceans, and that the necessary staff do accompany
the committee.
The Deputy Speaker: Does the hon. parliamentary secretary
have the unanimous consent of the House to propose this motion?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: No.
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS
Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there
have been consultations and I think you will find consent for the
following motion. I move:
That five (5) members of the Standing Committee on Public
Accounts and two (2) staff persons of the committee be authorized
to travel to Yellowknife, Northwest Territories to attend the
nineteenth annual conference of the Canadian Council of Public
Accounts Committees to be held in Yellowknife from August 15 to
18, 1998.
(Motion agreed to)
GOVERNMENT ORDERS
[English]
NATIONAL PARKS ACT
The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-38, an
act to amend the National Parks Act, be read the third time and
passed.
Mr. Mark Muise (West Nova, PC): Mr. Speaker, it gives me
pleasure to speak on Bill C-38, an act to amend the National
Parks Act by adding Tuktut Nogait national park to the list of
national parks in schedule I of the National Parks Act.
Tuktut Nogait is located in region 15, tundra hills, as
designated by Parks Canada in its national park systems plan.
This region is highlighted by a number of spectacular features.
More than 95% of the region is tundra, rock barrens where only
the hardiest plants can survive. Wildlife in this region is
mainly comprised of summer migrants. Musk ox, wolves and caribou
can be found in this region. It is also the home of one of the
rarest birds in Canada, the Eskimo curlew.
All this is to say that this park will play a critical role in
helping to conserve Canada's biological diversity through the
protection of the bluenose caribou herd, concentrations of tundra
peregrine falcons and rich niches of vegetation.
Tuktut Nogait is Canada's newest and fifth largest national
park. The passage of Bill C-38 brings Canada's park system one
step closer to completion. It is this government's objective to
have a national park in all 39 natural regions of this country by
the year 2000. It is also a very unique national park in that it
was a community that initiated the idea of the national park.
Most candidate sites are identified by Parks Canada.
The Inuvialuit are to be praised for their conservation efforts.
In fact, 29% of their lands are protected areas whereas the
government has not even achieved its goal of setting aside 12% of
our lands as protected areas.
Six parties entered into agreement to establish Tuktut Nogait
national park in June 1996, the Canadian government, the
Government of the Northwest Territories, the Inuvialuit Game
Council, the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, the Paulatuk
Community Corporation and the Paulatuk Hunters and Trappers
Committee.
While they were negotiating the agreement and at the time they
signed that agreement the Inuvialuit groups understood that it
would be possible for them to make changes to this agreement in
the future.
Last winter the IRC approached the federal government to ask
whether it could modify the boundaries of the park to allow for
mineral development. The government's response was to wipe the
dust off the Tuktut Nogait park agreement and attempt to slip it
through parliament.
All parties agreed to the passage of Bill C-38 in principle but
were preoccupied by the request made by the Inuvialuit Regional
Corporation to remove 415 square kilometres of the established
16,340 square kilometres to permit mineral development.
The government and conservation groups have argued that this land
which represents only 2.5% of the park falls within the core
calving ground of the bluenose caribou herd.
1225
During first reading of this bill I told members of the House
that I was in favour of this bill in principle. I thought then
and I still do that we cannot start carving up parts of our
national parks for any reason. Immediately following my remarks
I was contacted by the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation to advise
me of the Inuvialuit point of view.
It quickly became apparent that this issue was not as cut and
dry as members of the House were first led to believe. It was
very important for me to hear both sides of the story so I urged
the committee to hear witnesses affected by the park. It was an
honour for me to meet with the representatives of the IRC and
from the community of Paulatuk when they appeared before the
Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.
The committee was told that they had been lobbying the
government for the past six months because they see the
development of a mine as the way to end the dependence of their
people on social assistance. The community of Paulatuk has a
population of approximately 300 people. The majority of those
residents are under age 25. The people of Paulatuk have
traditionally lived off the land. They understand the danger
that might be posed by a mine but they argue that the development
of the mine could help their people.
Being from a region where many people have had to diversify due
to the downturn in fisheries I can certainly appreciate the
Inuvialiuts' difficult situation. However, my initial decision
has not changed for a number of reasons.
First, the agreement was signed by all parties. Second, since
only 10% of the anomaly lies within the boundaries of the park, I
really do not understand why it is imperative for them to develop
that portion. They would be much better to develop and exploit
the remaining 90%.
The Inuvialuit also argue that the Tuktut Nogait is not a park
but a proposed park.
I told witnesses and I have said in this House my party is not
against mineral development. On the contrary, we support mining
and other development in the north. However, I feel that
changing the boundaries for Tuktut Nogait to allow for mineral
exploration after the agreement has been signed would set a
dangerous precedent for this and the other seven national parks
that are not protected under the National Parks Act.
In my humble opinion if we start decreasing or
reducing the boundaries of our proposed parks for immediate
benefits, we will be short changing future generations. Our
children's children deserve the right to enjoy our national parks
and national treasures, be it the right whale in the Bay of Fundy
or the bluenose caribou herd in Canada's north.
Although I am in favour of this bill, I am not in favour of the
way this government has treated the people of Paulatuk. The IRC
and the people of Paulatuk ask this government for time to
explore the prospects of mineral development pursuant to their
understanding of section 22.1 of the Tuktut Nogait agreement
which states: “Any party may request a review by the parties of
part or all of this agreement. If all the parties agree, they
shall initiate the review within 90 days of the request”.
This government's cavalier response was to ignore the IRC's
request and to try to whisk this through the House. Will this
government ever learn to treat people with respect and dignity?
Furthermore, this government has recently shown yet another double
standard.
While arguing that mineral development in Tuktut Nogait would
have a negative ecological impact on the environment, it is
allowing Canadian Pacific Hotels to build a 156,000 square foot
conference centre and hotel expansion on the shores of Lake
Louise.
This is the latest but not the last announcement in the new
development boom in Banff National Park. How can this government
expect Canadians to take it seriously on environmental issues
when it flip-flops from one park to another?
Mr. Rick Laliberte (Churchill River, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I
rise today to lend support on behalf of the New Democratic Party
to Bill C-38, an act to establish a national park and establish
the boundaries of Tuktut Nogait.
The process began with a letter on March 10, 1989.
1230
The Wildlife Management Advisory Council of the Northwest
Territories wrote to the minister responsible for Parks Canada
and proposed a study to consider the possibility of creating a
national park in the vicinity of Bluenose Lake.
The context of the request was for the Paulatuk community
conservation plan. The plan identified caribou and particularly
the protection of the calving grounds of the bluenose herd as the
foremost conservation concern for a community that has for
generations depended for their livelihood on the caribou herd.
Indeed, as mentioned throughout the debate on this bill, the park
name, Tuktut Nogait, means caribou calves in the Siglik dialect
of the Inuvialukton.
Seven years of analysis, consultation and negotiation followed.
There were extensive discussions with local stakeholders,
including the Paulatuk community corporation, the Paulatuk
trappers and hunters committee, the elders committee, the
government of the Northwest Territories, the Inuvialuit regional
corporation and the Inuvialuit game council. These consultations
led to an agreement signed in Paulatuk on June 28, 1996.
The federal government and the territorial government, together
with the four other parties, agreed and the boundaries were set.
That was the start of the birth of a park.
Then, after much fanfare, nothing happened. The federal
government moved on with more paper signing, without follow up or
action.
Suddenly Tuktut Nogait became an issue again. Over the winter
the mining company that had removed exploration from within the
park boundaries changed its mind. The anomaly proved to be a
worthwhile investment within the boundaries.
Suddenly some of the local stakeholders who were looking at the
environmental impact it would have on their communities were
willing to take a risk on an economic venture into mining, and
stating this whole concern under a park agreement, as the parties
had agreed they wanted to make a change. It was quite a
confusing state of affairs.
But the main problem was created by the government dragging its
heels, especially when it knew that money would have to be spent
to start the park. The government was not fulfilling the promise
it had made.
The risks were not limited to the potential loss of critical
area within the proposed park. The principle of developing
within national park boundaries has opened up a great issue.
Canada witnessed just last fall the Cheviot mine case in which a
huge strip mine will be developed beside the national Jasper
Park, a very prestigious world heritage site. That brought a
terse response from UNESCO, asking the government to reconsider
and reverse its decision to allow a mine to be located at such
close proximity to a pristine valley.
In this decision the minister used his discretion and as a
result the fish habitat was damaged. It was the spawning ground
for the western bull trout and it has been a sacred tenet of
environmental protection to keep such a crucial species in this
country.
This brings us to an important point as parliamentarians today
consider Bill C-38. We must consider the remaining natural
regions that are not protected. Failure to do so would be a
great demise.
I bring members back to the Tuktut Nogait National Park. The
existing park boundaries, as presented in Bill C-38, will create
a park inside a settlement region, the Inuvialuit settlement
region.
This region and the majority of its community members have
compromised their settlement of lands to create a national park.
But the federal government and the parks agency people, as they
will soon be called if the parks agency bill is passed, have
promised that Tuktut Nogait will protect the integrity of the
bluenose herd.
There are other proposed boundaries to this park which involve
the Nunavut settlement region and the Sahtu Dene settlement
region. Why are those proposed regions not included in the bill?
Why does it not state that the Tuktut Nogait National Park will
be a huge protected area involving three settlement regions?
1235
Principles of co-management are part of the commitments the
government is making with the people of northern Canada,
especially in the northern region where economic wealth is based
on traditional lifestyle. For the economy to change to an
eco-tourism based economy for the protection and enhancement of
the national park with potential mineral development in that
area, co-management and community involvement are required.
The agreement included a parks agreement which stated that the
Inuit impact and benefits agreement would be considered when this
national park comes into being. Employment and training
opportunities must be considered.
All these issues will have a major impact on this community and
on the northern region. The integrity of the ecology, the
history and the biodiversity of our country must be protected for
future generations as we create national parks. Development is a
crucial risk for these national parks. We are witnessing
decisions on requests being made for the Banff National Park. We
must take these into serious consideration and not make decisions
for the sake of the economy.
The root of the word economy is eco, which means your home. We
know what money means, so it means the home of your money. But
ecology means the home of your environment. Without this
environment and this vast country we call Canada there would be
no money made, there would be no people calling it their home.
This environment and this land must be respected. The national
parks are a sacred way of protecting this land for future
generations. They keep in tact the many generations of
sustainable development that the aboriginal peoples of this world
and this land have retained for their people. That sustainable
development or that non-parasitic way of utilizing the land and
resources for our own immediate needs without putting back is a
crucial lesson for future generations.
I call upon other parties to take heed. The investments we make
as a nation are not necessarily from park created revenues. As
the Reform Party was quick to point out, the integrity of a park
should be maintained by revenues created from within it. We must
find investment from other sources within this country to
maintain the integrity of the national parks of the far north
which will never have the same revenue base which Jasper, Banff
and other national parks have the privilege of creating.
This federal government has dragged its feet in creating this
park, which has resulted in some controversy in a community that
has other vested interests for economic reasons. It must also
deal with the inequity. It must deal with the Nunavut settlement
region and the Sahtu Dene settlement region to include the whole
park boundary as originally proposed and not just within the
Inuvialuit settlement region.
I am happy to state that we are in support of Bill C-38 which
would begin the creation of the Tuktut Nogait National Park. The
other settlement regions will contribute further boundaries and
further vast tracts of land to protect the integrity of the
bluenose herds and the integrity and the biodiversity of that
land, so that it will remain sustainable for future generations
of the north. May the ecology of this country not be compromised
for the sake of the economy.
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
[English]
COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION
Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there
have been consultations among the parties and I believe you would
find unanimous consent for this order of reference:
That the House give its consent to an order of reference to
travel to allow the Chair of the Standing Committee on
Citizenship and Immigration to visit Canadian and national
immigration offices in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Thailand and Thai
refugee camps from June 26 to July 11, 1998.
The Deputy Speaker: Does the hon. parliamentary secretary
to the government House leader have the unanimous consent of the
House to propose this motion?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Deputy Speaker: The House has heard the terms of the
motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
(Motion agreed to)
GOVERNMENT ORDERS
1240
[Translation]
NATIONAL PARKS ACT
The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-38, an
act to amend the National Parks Act, be read the third time and
passed.
Mrs. Suzanne Tremblay (Rimouski—Mitis, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I rise
today at third reading of Bill C-38 introduced by the Minister of
Canadian Heritage and entitled, after our motion at report
stage, an act to amend the National Parks Act and establish
Tuktut Nogait park.
The aim of this bill is to create a national park in the
Northwest Territories, more specifically, in the Inuvialuit land
claim settlement region.
To understand the situation fully, members have to know that, in
1984, the federal government signed an agreement with the native
peoples traditionally occupying and using the region of the
Beaufort Sea. This agreement was known as the Inuvialuit Final
Agreement and accorded the Inuvialuit ownership of part of the
lands they claimed.
In exchange for their transferring to the crown their interest
in other lands they claimed, the Government of Canada undertook
certain obligations with respect to the Inuvialuit living in the
region. This agreement was implemented with the 1984 passage of
the Western Arctic (Inuvialuit) Claims Settlement Act.
As part of the obligations the federal government undertook with
respect to the Inuvialuit, the agreement provided, and I quote
“The granting or setting aside for the Inuvialuit of certain
lands in the designated region, their right to hunt, to trap and
to conduct certain commercial ventures there”.
So, the government begun negotiations concerning the
establishment of a national park in this region in 1989 partly
to honour its obligations to the Inuvialuit.
The six parties involved in the negotiations were the federal
government, the Government of the Northwest Territories, the
Inuvialuit regional corporation, the Inuvialuit game management
council, the Paulatuk community corporation, and the Paulatuk
committee of hunters and trappers.
In 1996, after seven years of negotiations, the parties to this
lengthy process signed the agreement to create a national park
in the region covered by the Inuvialuit land claim, in the
vicinity of Paulatuk, Northwest Territories. The short title
for that agreement is the Tuktuk Nogait agreement.
In the Siglik dialect of Inuvialukton, Tuktut Nogait means
“caribou calves”, which is not surprising since the park is at
the heart of the Bluenose caribou herd's calving grounds.
As everyone knows, the reason for creating a park is that it
protects a specific geographical aspect.
The 16,340 square kilometers of Tuktuk Nogait Park will
represent the natural region of tundra hills.
It is characterized by a rich biodiversity, for its hills and
valleys offer lush vegetation and therefore an excellent habitat
for the caribou and muskox. Its many cliffs and ramparts
provide ideal nesting areas for birds of prey.
Within the park are archaeological sites which confirm that
there was a human presence thousands of years ago. There have
been settlements in a large part of the park at various times
over the last millennium.
The region provides visitors with an opportunity to discover
untouched Arctic landscapes, and to observe wildlife and plant
life. Activities include hiking, camping, birdwatching, nature
watching and photography.
According to the agreement, the objectives of the park's
creation are as follows. First, to protect the Bluenose caribou
herd and its calving and post-calving habitat.
Second, to protect in perpetuity a natural area in a region of
tundra hills, and encourage the public to understand and
appreciate the region in such a way as to leave it intact for
coming generations.
1245
Third, to promote co-operation among the Inuvialuit, the
Government of Canada and the Government of the Northwest
Territories in planning, operating and managing the park.
Fourth, to encourage and support the creation and maintenance of
jobs and businesses in the region by permitting hunting within
the park solely for subsistence purposes.
Fifth, to promote greater understanding and respect for the
Inuvialuit cultural heritage and the natural surroundings of
this nation.
Sixth, to create an environment suitable for long term research
on the ecological and cultural history of the park.
And, seventh, to preserve the park's ecological integrity.
The park will be managed jointly with the Inuvialuit community.
The park's board of management will comprise five members, two
appointed by the Inuvialuit, two by the federal
government—including one on the recommendation of the Northwest
Territories government—and a chair appointed with the approval
of all parties.
The park board of management will reconcile the various
objectives of natural preservation, economic development and
respect for native traditions.
The agreement provides for the formulation of a training and
community assistance plan to help the residents of Paulatuk
develop tourist and economic resources for the park, the
priority hiring of qualified Inuvialuit employees and the
priority awarding of contracts to Inuvialuit businesses that
meet the terms of the contract on the provision of quality goods
and services.
In short, the establishment of the Tuktut Nogait park should
benefit the Inuvialuit community and all Canadians by protecting
and developing this region for generations to come.
However, the park project recently was the focus of a dispute
between the Inuvialuit and the government.
On February 19, Inuvialuit Regional Corporation CEO Nellie
Cournoyea wrote the Secretary of State responsible for parks,
asking him to revise the park boundaries.
In light of recent information on the geological possibilities
of one region, which occupies 2.5% of the park's area, the
Inuvialuit were asking to have that area excluded from the park
in order to allow future development.
On March 25, the Secretary of State responsible for Parks wrote
back denying the request to review park boundaries.
Since then, things have speeded up. On March 30, the government
introduced Bill C-38 at first reading. It was debated at second
reading on April 3. On May 26, 28 and 29, the Standing
Committee on Canadian Heritage held hearings on the bill.
On June 1, a clause-by-clause examination of Bill C-38 was begun,
and yesterday, June 11, we passed it at the report stage, while
today we have moved on to third reading.
The rapidity of this process, given that the agreement was
signed two years ago and that nothing had been done since then,
makes us uncomfortable.
We regret that some information was not available to us,
particularly the text of the final Inuvialuit agreement and its
implementing legislation. As well, we got the text of the
Tuktut Nogait agreement only very belatedly.
The very brief hearings did not allow us to get a complete
picture of the situation and to fully weigh the arguments of the
parties involved.
Let us look now at the arguments from both sides.
For the Inuvialuit, the mining potential represents a much
needed opportunity for economic development for their community.
They were convinced they could obtain a revision of the park
boundaries under section 22.1 of the agreement, which states
that the agreement may be revisited with the consent of all
parties.
There has been no environmental assessment proving that mining
would compromise the park's integrity. The Inuvialuit were
prepared to accept the findings of a study on this.
1250
The agreement will give the Inuvialuit the means to preserve
their cultural identity and values, while participating fully in
society and in the economy.
In section 16 of the agreement, the federal government undertook
to promote full Inuvialuit participation in the northern
Canadian economy, and Inuvialuit integration into Canadian
society through development of an adequate level of economic
self-reliance and a solid economic base.
From their point of view, the refusal to amend the park's
boundaries constitutes the loss of an opportunity to realize
their economic development without having to rely on federal
government subsidies.
For its part, the government is opposed to re-opening an
agreement that took seven years to negotiate. It does not wish
to amend the boundaries because this could set a precedent and
lead to other requests for changes in unmanaged parks.
The government often holds out the park plan to protect caribou
breeding grounds as an important and vital argument.
Canada is also trying to limit mining projects on the American
side of the border.
The park's board of management has asked the government to go
ahead and create the park.
Both sides' arguments have merit and it is difficult to decide
clearly which option would most benefit all three groups, the
Inuvialuit, the federal government and the general public.
It is hard to decide whether the environmental or the economic
arguments should take precedence, because a number of questions
remain unanswered.
Here are some of these questions.
Will changing the park's boundaries as requested by Inuvialuit
officials compromise the main objective sought in creating the
park, which is the protection of the Bluenose caribou herd and
its calving and post-calving habitat?
Is the area affected by the change a sensitive area that is
essential to the park?
What would have been the results of environmental impact studies
on mining projects in that area?
Are the prospects of sustainable and long term development for
the Inuvialuit community as a whole—through the creation of the
park and their participation in its management—better than
those provided by a mining project in a part of the territory
that is supposed to become part of the park?
In spite of all these unanswered questions, the government
decided to go ahead with the creation of the park, with the
boundaries that were originally set. I deplore the fact that the
government could not find a compromise that everyone could live
with.
There is no doubt that the creation of the park will have a
positive environmental and economic impact on the region, but we
will have to make sure the Inuvialuit are not penalized by the
government's decision.
This is why I urge the secretary of state responsible for parks,
and also his colleagues for Indian Affairs and Northern
Development, Natural Resources and Human Resources Development,
to make particular efforts to meet the federal government's
commitments under the Inuvialuit final agreement, which are to
promote the Inuvialuit's full participation in northern Canada's
economy, and to help them reach an adequate level of economic
self-sufficiency.
[English]
Mr. Lee Morrison (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, I will be dividing my time with the member for Calgary
East.
Creation of the new park of Tuktut Nogait is a good idea. We
should have some tundra hills preserved for posterity. However,
I would hasten to point out that this site certainly is not
unique. There are hundreds of thousands of square kilometres of
virtually identical terrain. The boundaries that were
arbitrarily developed are not necessarily the ideal ones. It is
very unfortunate that they were established without any
environmental assessment and without a resource inventory.
As a matter of fact, with respect to the resource inventory,
there was a mining company with exploration rights on a portion
of that park. It was proposed as the hon. member for
Rimouski—Mitis has just explained to have a small portion of the
proposed area removed so that the mining company's exploration
program could proceed.
The proposal by the Inuvialuit was actually presented by no less
a personage than Nellie Cournoyea.
1255
Nevertheless the government in its wisdom has decided to press
on. The mining company was pressured to “voluntarily”
relinquish its rights and here we are. It is the usual story of
urban know it alls from central Canada dictating to the local
people with respect to parks.
Unlike the great parks of the Rocky Mountains which have
negligible mineral potential, Tuktut Nogait may contain
economically important deposits. Nobody knows because nobody has
ever made a serious effort to find out.
Fortunately future generations will be able, I suppose if it is
deemed in the public interest, to change the boundaries of the
already established park. But why not start out correctly from
the very beginning? There should have been an assessment. This
should be true of any new park.
There should always be an economic and environmental assessment,
a cost benefit study to decide where the park should precisely be
and then cast the boundaries in stone. Do not just draw lines on
maps and say “Gee I think it is a good idea to have a park
here”. It requires a bit of science and a little thought.
As far as the possible disturbance of the bluenose caribou by
this exploration proposed in two and half per cent of the park is
concerned, my personal observation is that caribou are quite
compatible with human activity. I have seen them browsing in the
shadow of a mine headframe. It is well-known that prospectors or
explorers in the barren lands have had their tents knocked down
because the caribou find that they are very convenient rubbing
posts. Caribou are not shy animals; they are anything but.
The local people regard them as being a little on the dumb side
and easy pickings for hunters. There is not much glory, not much
honour, going out and shooting a caribou. It is like going out
and milking a cow on the farm.
Talking about interfering with local people, just a few days ago
our revered heritage minister vetoed a very carefully thought out
and democratically approved development plan in Banff park. The
local people looked at this very carefully. They decided what
they felt was needed, decided what was suitable for their own
particular environment. But no, our heritage minister gets up on
her white horse, comes roaring in and says “They shall not do
it. Never”.
The same people in Banff had to fight for years to preserve
their airstrip. Fortunately they were able to enlist the
assistance of the Canadian Air Line Pilots Association who
pointed out that the airstrip in Banff as well as the one in
Jasper are very important for safety reasons, for emergency
landings.
They have been able to keep the airstrips but one wonders what
the furore was about. Both of these parks are bisected by a
highway and a railway. They were going to shut down a little
3,000 foot grass strip, which is highly essential to the
preservation of human life, because somebody got a bug in their
ear. Anyway, that battle has been won.
Hopefully when the present minister is sent to her reward with
whatever patronage appointment she will get, this airstrip will
again be returned for the local people to use. There are people
in Banff who fly and use their aircraft for search and rescue.
They have done so for many years.
Eventually I think they will get their airstrip back. It
probably will revert to the situation which existed wherein they
did the maintenance work at no cost to the federal government.
Since these airstrips are going to be strictly for emergency use,
the federal government's parks department will have to cut the
grass and plough the snow.
I have another example of the local people being run over
roughshod by Parks Canada.
1300
This one is rather near and dear to me because it is in my own
riding, the Grasslands park in southern Saskatchewan. The local
people are really frightened by this vast area of ungrazed
prairie which is beside their farms and ranches. This is a
powder keg, a potential fire hazard of unparalleled proportions.
They have begged and pleaded with Parks Canada to allow limited
grazing of cattle in that park.
The natural condition of the prairie land is to be grazed by
large ungulate. They used to be called buffalo. We have no
buffalo any more. So not only does the prairie grow wild and
present this terrible fire hazard, but it is deteriorating
because in the natural balance certain species tend to overcrowd
the others when ground is not grazed. Any rancher knows this,
but the academic geniuses in Parks Canada who have never probably
seen a cow or a buffalo or a blade of grass do not know what is
happening out there.
The same parks people also continually get into unpleasant
situations with the local people simply by being bad neighbours.
They unlawfully impound stray livestock, for example. They
refuse to participate in the maintenance of line fences. They
say “that is your problem”.
On one occasion they actually were convinced under great duress
to put up a fence. A fence the local ranchers had moved off the
survey line for generations was then placed exactly on the survey
line right down the middle of a creek. Brilliance. So naturally
the first spring it went away and there was no fence at all and
the rancher had to rebuild the fence back on his own land.
The problem with stray livestock was taken seriously enough
that the local municipal government has passed the only open herd
law in Saskatchewan that I am aware of. You can now run your
cattle anywhere, including on your neighbour's front lawn,
between I think October 1 and April 1, simply because Parks
Canada is so obdurate that they will not get along with their
neighbours.
I have to leave some time for my hon. colleague but I could go
on for a long time about people at Parks Canada, some of my
favourite whipping people.
Mr. Rick Laliberte (Churchill River, NDP): Mr. Speaker,
I find it hard to restrain myself from commenting in respect of
other members.
I take exception to the hon. member's statements on a number of
occasions. The first is that there is no honour in hunting. I
beg the member to reconsider this. Sport hunting and sustenance
hunting are two different forms of hunting.
When northern people enter the tundra and kill a caribou to
bring home and feed their child and sustain life for their
family, for their generations to come, there is no greater honour
than entering the woods, surviving the elements and bringing back
the meat and the sustenance for that community or for that
family. One does not need honour to be up in a chopper with a
telescopic gun aiming at unprotected species on the ground.
There is no honour in that. But when you sustain your family,
when you hunt for the privilege of honouring and respecting the
land, there is great honour in that.
We no longer have buffalo, as the hon. member said. There was no
honour when the hunters climbed on to the trains and used
automatic weapons and killed and piled buffalo bones on the banks
of Wascana Lake, as it was later created. Wascana means piles of
bones.
[Editor's Note: Member spoke in Cree]
[English]
There is no honour in that. But when you retain the national
parks and the integrity of the national parks, there is some
security for the future generation. They can see in the past
what ecological measures were taken.
1305
I challenge the member to travel along the west coast of the
United States. He will see the cathedral red woods standing in a
protected area of northern California. Then he will arrive in
Oregon where it is clearcut.
In terms of resource inventory, environmental impacts and
challenging Parks Canada to retain its integrity and resources
this costs money. The Reform Party time and time again has tried
to be accountable. This government has made cutbacks that have
had an impact on Parks Canada. Let us invest and put money in
our budgets to retain the future of our parks.
Mr. Lee Morrison: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member should dig
out his ears and listen to what other speakers are saying.
When I spoke of the caribou being an easy mark, I was not making
any disparaging references to native people. I have had
conversations along this line with Inuvialuit people who know
that the caribou is a stupid animal and easy to shoot. That is
all I said. Please pay attention.
The member was talking about wiping out the buffalo with
automatic weapons. That would have been quite a trick inasmuch
as automatic weapons were not developed until about 20 years
after buffalo were nearly extinct. But that is a sideline.
Mr. Deepak Obhrai (Calgary East, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I
have risen on this bill on many occasions and talked about the
importance of national parks in Canada for future generations.
We have supported this bill in the past. We are now aware of the
controversy that took place about taking out a portion of the
boundary due to the mineral finds in them.
I would say that both sides have good arguments. I would like
to agree with my colleague from Cypress Hill who said future
generations can change this if so desired. Although he says let
us do it right in the first place, I would venture to say that at
this time, due to the fact that this area has also been
identified as a calving ground for the bluenose caribou, we not
change it.
It is important to recognize that national parks are an
ecological treasure. We are the custodians of this ecological
treasure for our future generations. Therefore the Reform Party
says we should support the concept of environmentally sensitive
zoning.
The Reform Party supports cost effective and efficient
initiatives that protect and preserve Canada's wildlife and
wilderness areas for future generations to enjoy. Based on this,
my party is in agreement with this act and will support this
because it follows what we support.
However, I would like to talk on another point on Parks Canada.
This is the user fee, the entrance fee into the national parks. I
come from the riding of Calgary East which is at the foothills of
the greatest natural treasurer we have in Canada. It is the
Banff National Park at the foot of the Rockies. A tremendous
amount of traffic goes through that park.
Over the 20 years since I first came to Canada I have marvelled
at that area. I have noticed time after time that the user fee
keeps rising.
1310
Today it has come to the state where there are serious concerns
as to what is the aim of this national park. One U.S. ranger
said U.S. parks are set aside for the specific purpose of being
available for all people, not specific people who can afford to
go there.
We support our national parks as they are our national treasures
for all Canadians. We should not raise the user fee to a level
where only those who can afford to go can. That has happened. I
do not go frequently to Banff National Park but I did at one
time. Now I do not because of the high cost of going into my own
national heritage. This is a cause for concern.
Imagine going through Banff and having to use the washroom. Our
bodies do not say we are in a national park and cannot go to the
washroom unless we have paid the user fee. If we have to go and
we stop we are liable to a $2,000 fine.
As was quoted in the Calgary Herald one out of four cars
going through Banff National Park does not pay the fee. Why? Do
we think they do not wish to comply with Canadian laws? Nonsense.
They do but the user fee is too expensive.
I am asking the government to consider that user fees for
national parks is not revenue generating. We pay taxes. Taxes
have not been reduced. Therefore this government should not use
user fees as another form of taxation. It is important we
recognize this fact.
User fees should be at a level where all Canadians can afford to
go into national parks to enjoy themselves. Members of parliament
have just been given pay raises of 2% so I presume they can
afford to go to national parks. But I am talking about general
usage.
My party supports this bill. We agree with this bill.
I would like to wish a happy summer to all my colleagues in the
House. Go back to your constituencies and work for your
constituents. I would like to pass a motion to adjourn the House
for the summer.
The Deputy Speaker: That will happen in due course in any
event. Before questions and comments, the hon. government House
leader.
Hon. Don Boudria (Leader of the Government in the House of
Commons, Lib.): I want to take a moment to thank Mr. Speaker,
all occupants of the chair, our very able staff from the clerks
to the pages and all the support staff on Parliament Hill for the
excellent help given to all of us during this session. I wish my
very best to all hon. members of this House.
I think each one of us has deserved a bit of a break, some more
than others perhaps if I can put it that way, but it has been an
excellent session. I congratulate all hon. members and hope they
will work very hard doing constituency work until we get back in
the fall.
1315
Mr. Lee Morrison (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, I would like to ask my colleague a question not so much
for my own benefit but for the benefit of members in the House,
most of whom are central Canadians who have never seen Banff.
What is the current day rate to enter Banff National Park? I
also remind my colleague that it is pretty difficult to maintain
accessibility of the public to a park when all that money is
needed for Bombardier.
Mr. Deepak Obhrai: Mr. Speaker, yes, it is pretty
expensive. I have the 1996 rate, which I think has gone up, by
the way. It says $6 for adults but I think it has gone to $10
per day for adults, if I am not mistaken.
I remember when I was there it used to be $1 per day. Now it is
$10 per day and $10 per day is pretty expensive. It is $75 a
year to go to that national park. Again I appeal to the
government to revisit that fee.
Mr. Rick Laliberte (Churchill River, NDP): Mr. Speaker,
I have two points to make. The Reform Party spoke about its
support for the ecological integrity of the Arctic region. This
park is certainly one way of guaranteeing it.
This past week we had a motion ready to be introduced on an
international agreement on persistent organic pollutants that
affect endangered species of northern Canada. Why would his
party not support an international agreement on persistent
organic pollutants?
I congratulate all members on the successful parliament of the
last year and ask them to enjoy our national parks. I look
forward to a safe summer.
Mr. Deepak Obhrai: Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the
question. I think everyone is concerned about pollutants and the
ecological damage done to national parks.
I was born right next to national parks in Africa and I treasure
national parks and animals. I share the sentiment that we should
be very careful to ensure that pollution does not damage our
ecological environment.
The Deputy Speaker: Is the House ready for the question?
Some hon. members: Question.
The Deputy Speaker: The question is on the motion for
third reading of Bill C-38. Pursuant to order made earlier this
day, the motion is deemed carried on division.
(Motion agreed to, bill read the third time and passed)
* * *
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
June 10, 1998—Leader of the Government in the House of
Commons—That, when the House adjourns following the adoption
of this motion, it shall stand adjourned until Monday, September
21, 1998, provided that, for the purposes of sections (3) and (4)
of Standing Order 28, it shall be deemed to stand adjourned
pursuant to section (2) of the said Standing Order and provided
that on any day prior to June 24, 1998, if any Standing Committee
has a report ready for presentation in the House, the said report
may be deposited with the Clerk of the House and shall thereupon
be deemed to have been tabled in the House; and that the Order of
the House of June 8, 1998, regarding motions pursuant to Standing
Order 57 and Standing Order 78(3) is rescinded and that the Clerk
of the House shall be directed to prepare amendments to Standing
Order 81 that will provide as follows:
1. The number of allotted days in each year is changed to twenty-one,
with seven allotted days in each supply period; of the
twenty-one, not more than fourteen may be used for votable
motions;
2. On the last day in the supply period ending not later than
June 23, until 6:30 p.m. the House shall consider an opposition
motion as on all other allotted days and at 6:30 p.m. all
questions necessary to dispose of the opposition shall be put and
any division requested deferred to 10:00 p.m. and from 6:30 p.m.
the House shall consider motions respecting estimates and any
bill or bills based thereon, provided that at 10:00 p.m. all
questions regarding the Business of Supply shall be disposed of
in the manner presently provided for by the Standing Orders; and
That, after the Clerk has obtained the approval of the House
Leaders of each recognized party to the text of the said
amendments, they be deemed to have been adopted by the House.
The Deputy Speaker: Pursuant to order made earlier this
day, Government Business No. 15 on today's order paper is deemed
carried.
(Motion agreed to)
The Deputy Speaker: On behalf of all occupants of the
Chair, the hon. member for Saint-Lambert, the hon. member for
Edmonton Southwest and Mr. Speaker, may I thank the government
House leader, the hon. member for Calgary East and the hon.
member for Churchill River for their best wishes and say how much
we wish all hon. members a very safe and enjoyable summer.
[Translation]
I wish all members and employees of the House a very good
summer.
[English]
Accordingly the House stands adjourned until Monday, September
21, 1998, at 11 a.m. pursuant to Standing Orders 28(2) and 24(1).
(The House adjourned at 1.18 p.m.)