36th Parliament, 2nd Session
EDITED HANSARD • NUMBER 17
CONTENTS
Wednesday, November 3, 1999
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| STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS
|
| VETERANS WEEK
|
| Mr. Jerry Pickard |
| WAR VETERANS
|
| Mr. Peter Goldring |
| RURAL HEALTH CARE
|
| Mr. Peter Adams |
| TAKE OUR CHILDREN TO WORK DAY
|
| Ms. Sarmite Bulte |
| PORT OF VANCOUVER
|
| Mr. Dale Johnston |
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| WAR VETERANS
|
| Mr. John Richardson |
| VETERANS WEEK
|
| Mrs. Marlene Jennings |
| LE GUIDE DES PAPILLONS DU QUÉBEC
|
| Mr. Ghislain Lebel |
| NORTEL
|
| Mr. Raymond Lavigne |
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| AGRICULTURE
|
| Mr. David Chatters |
| WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION
|
| Mr. Bill Blaikie |
| MADAM JUSTICE BEVERLEY MCLACHLIN
|
| Mr. Ted McWhinney |
| INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM
|
| Mr. Maurice Godin |
| DIAMOND MINING
|
| Mr. Gerald Keddy |
| HELLENIC REPUBLIC
|
| Ms. Eleni Bakopanos |
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| ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
|
| AGRICULTURE
|
| Mr. Preston Manning |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| Mr. Preston Manning |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| Mr. Preston Manning |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| Miss Deborah Grey |
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| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| Miss Deborah Grey |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| ECONOMIC STATEMENT BY MINISTER OF FINANCE
|
| Mr. Gilles Duceppe |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| Mr. Gilles Duceppe |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
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| Mr. Michel Gauthier |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| Mr. Michel Gauthier |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| CHILD POVERTY
|
| Ms. Alexa McDonough |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| Ms. Alexa McDonough |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
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| TAXATION
|
| Mr. Scott Brison |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| Mr. Scott Brison |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| Mr. Monte Solberg |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| Mr. Monte Solberg |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| ECONOMIC STATEMENT BY MINISTER OF FINANCE
|
| Mr. Paul Crête |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
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| Mr. Paul Crête |
| Hon. Jane Stewart |
| RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT
|
| Mr. Charlie Penson |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| Mr. Charlie Penson |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| AIR TRANSPORTATION
|
| Hon. Herb Gray |
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| Hon. Herb Gray |
| TRANSITIONAL JOBS FUND
|
| Mrs. Diane Ablonczy |
| Hon. Jane Stewart |
| Mrs. Diane Ablonczy |
| Hon. Jane Stewart |
| PLUTONIUM IMPORTS
|
| Ms. Jocelyne Girard-Bujold |
| Hon. Ralph E. Goodale |
| FOREIGN AFFAIRS
|
| Hon. Charles Caccia |
| Hon. Lloyd Axworthy |
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| AGRICULTURE
|
| Mr. Howard Hilstrom |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| Mr. Howard Hilstrom |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| Mr. Dick Proctor |
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| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| Mr. Dick Proctor |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| TRANSFER PAYMENTS TO PROVINCES
|
| Mr. André Bachand |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| Mr. André Bachand |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| ANTI-TOBACCO ADVERTISEMENTS
|
| Mr. Gurbax Singh Malhi |
| Mr. Yvon Charbonneau |
| AGRICULTURE
|
| Mr. Rick Casson |
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| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| OFF RESERVE ABORIGINAL PEOPLE
|
| Mr. André Bachand |
| Hon. Ralph E. Goodale |
| AGRICULTURE
|
| Mr. John Solomon |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| TAXATION
|
| Mr. John Herron |
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| CULTURE
|
| Ms. Colleen Beaumier |
| Mr. Mauril Bélanger |
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| PRESENCE IN GALLERY
|
| The Speaker |
| The Speaker |
| THE LATE ALFRED PULLEN GLEAVE
|
| Hon. Lorne Nystrom |
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| Hon. Ralph E. Goodale |
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| Mr. Roy Bailey |
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| Mr. Daniel Turp |
| Mr. Rick Borotsik |
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| Mr. Wayne Easter |
| ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
|
| GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO PETITIONS
|
| Mr. Derek Lee |
| INTERPARLIAMENTARY DELEGATIONS
|
| Ms. Colleen Beaumier |
| COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
|
| Procedure and House Affairs
|
| Mr. Derek Lee |
| NATIONAL DEFENCE ACT
|
| Bill C-298. Introduction and first reading
|
| Mr. Inky Mark |
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| FAMILY FARM COST OF PRODUCTION PROTECTION ACT
|
| Bill C-299. Introduction and first reading
|
| Hon. Lorne Nystrom |
| CANADA ENDANGERED SPECIES PROTECTION ACT
|
| Bill C-300. Introduction and first reading
|
| Hon. Charles Caccia |
| HOMEOWNERS' FREEDOM FROM DOUBLE TAXATION ACT
|
| Bill C-301. Introduction and first reading
|
| Mr. Ken Epp |
| CRIMINAL CODE
|
| Bill C-302. Introduction and first reading
|
| Mr. Jay Hill |
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| CRIMINAL CODE
|
| Bill C-303. Introduction and first reading
|
| Mr. Jay Hill |
| COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
|
| Fisheries and Oceans
|
| Mr. Derek Lee |
| PETITIONS
|
| Agriculture
|
| Mr. Rick Borotsik |
| Telephone Services
|
| Mr. Peter Adams |
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| Canada Post
|
| Mr. Peter Adams |
| Cruelty to Animals
|
| Mr. Peter Adams |
| Taxation
|
| Mr. Ken Epp |
| Child Pornography
|
| Mr. Ken Epp |
| Immigration
|
| Mr. Gary Lunn |
| QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER
|
| Mr. Derek Lee |
| MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
|
| Mr. Derek Lee |
| GOVERNMENT ORDERS
|
| SPEECH FROM THE THRONE
|
| Resumption of debate on Address in Reply
|
| Hon. John Manley |
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| Mr. Pierre Brien |
1600
| Mr. Inky Mark |
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| Mr. Rick Laliberte |
| Ms. Jocelyne Girard-Bujold |
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| Mr. Inky Mark |
| Mr. Réal Ménard |
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| Mr. René Canuel |
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| Mr. John Godfrey |
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| Mr. Peter Adams |
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| Mr. Peter Adams |
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| Mrs. Marlene Jennings |
1700
| Hon. Lorne Nystrom |
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| Mr. Rick Laliberte |
1710
1715
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| Mr. Myron Thompson |
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| Mr. Inky Mark |
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| Mrs. Marlene Jennings |
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1745
| Mr. Scott Brison |
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| Mr. David Pratt |
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1800
| Mr. Myron Thompson |
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| Mr. David Price |
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| Mr. Peter Adams |
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| Ms. Angela Vautour |
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(Official Version)
EDITED HANSARD • NUMBER 17
HOUSE OF COMMONS
Wednesday, November 3, 1999
The House met at 2 p.m.
Prayers
1400
The Speaker: As is our practice on Wednesday we will now
sing O Canada, and we will be led by the hon. member for Saint
John.
[Editor's Note: Members sang the national anthem]
STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS
[English]
VETERANS WEEK
Mr. Jerry Pickard (Chatham—Kent Essex, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, Veterans Week will offer Canadians an opportunity to
honour the sacrifices of our veterans.
I wish to pay tribute to the more than 1.4 million Canadians who
stood in harm's way to safeguard our freedoms and liberties, and
in particular, Chatham-Kent born Pilot Officer Leslie Peers, who
gave his life during World War II while assisting the French
resistance fighters.
Last July, Canada and its allies gathered in France for a
memorial service. This was the first time in 55 years that a
Canadian delegation set foot on the gravesite to officially
commemorate the valiant efforts of Pilot Officer Peers and his
six crew members.
This weekend will be another first. French resistance fighters
are presenting to the Royal Canadian Legion Branch 28 in
Chatham-Kent their battle flag. I am told that no French battle
flag has ever left France unless taken by an enemy in battle.
Canada stands proud. The bond between Canada and France
endures. We remain very proud of our veterans.
* * *
WAR VETERANS
Mr. Peter Goldring (Edmonton East, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
Canada's proud war veterans are now, and should remain, the
recipients of the enduring respect of all Canadians for the very
high price for peace paid this century past.
We parliamentarians fully recognize that our existence and
privileges enjoyed today are due to the efforts of Canada's war
veterans and their 110,000 fallen comrades resting throughout the
world.
We wish to support greater recognition of Canada's wartime
contributions on this passing of the most violent century of all
time.
We ask all Canadians to observe a two minute wave of silence to
begin in Newfoundland, sweeping across the country in a silent
wave through each time zone.
We parliamentarians of Canada should proclaim our support and
pledge to encourage a two minute silence in our constituency at
the 11th hour of the 11th day in the 11th month of 1999.
* * *
RURAL HEALTH CARE
Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the
Minister of Health and the new federal rural health directorate
have been working hard to tackle the special health problems of
rural Canada in towns like Peterborough.
The national summit on rural health research in Prince George
brought together all stakeholders in rural health care.
There are, in effect, two health care systems in Canada: one
for the big cities and one for the rest of the country. While it
is clear that some major health facilities have to be in cities,
there is no reason that basic rapid response modern care cannot
be available to all Canadians. It is the task of the federal
government to make sure that our health care system is available
to all.
I urge that Health Canada be given the resources to translate
its fine preliminary work into action. This will improve health
care for all rural Canadians.
* * *
TAKE OUR CHILDREN TO WORK DAY
Ms. Sarmite Bulte (Parkdale—High Park, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, today is bring your children to work day. It is an
opportunity for them to experience various occupations by
shadowing their parents and friends. This is vital, as it allows
children to broaden their horizons as to what the future may hold
for them.
My daughter Lara Treiber and her friend Sofie Faga are spending
the day accompanying me. They will experience my life as a
member of parliament on Parliament Hill. The day will include
attending committee meetings and question period. They have come
to meet and share the ideas and experiences of others.
All young Canadians participating in this event will have the
opportunity to learn that in today's world there is a recipe for
success. It encompasses education and creative energy. It
inspires courage and the ability to envision the future and
recognize the challenges that still lay ahead.
As parents today we must lead the way and set an example for
others and for those who follow in our footsteps. I commend
everyone who has chosen to bring a child to their workplace for
the day to share the knowledge and experience they have acquired.
* * *
PORT OF VANCOUVER
Mr. Dale Johnston (Wetaskiwin, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
farmers and west coast shippers are nervously watching the clock
today to see if last minute talks will avert work stoppages that
threaten to halt their shipments and decimate their earnings.
At the port of Vancouver a long simmering dispute between the
Maritime Employer's Association and the longshoremen's union
threatens to close that port by next week.
A shutdown could see $89 million a day in Canadian trade
disappear down the drain.
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Why should farmers worry? After all, did the Liberals not
decree that grain like the mail must go through? But wait, there
is a wrinkle in this Liberal labour plan. If the grain does not
reach the port it cannot be shipped out. A contract dispute
between Agricore and the Grain Services Union could stall
shipments from 400 Alberta and Manitoba elevators by next week.
When will the government recognize that last year's tinkering
with the labour laws did not work? It is time to give labour and
management the tools to solve their differences—
The Speaker: The hon. member for Perth—Middlesex.
* * *
WAR VETERANS
Mr. John Richardson (Perth—Middlesex, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, as we are about to enter a new century, we can well
imagine the excitement felt by all Canadians at the turn of the
last one. We were a small nation in almost everything but size
and promise.
Yet shortly after the century began the first world war would
take 60,000 of our citizens. They would die at Regina Trench,
Passchendaele, Vimy Ridge, Beaumont Hamel and Courcelette, to
name a few of the battlegrounds that continue to mark our
history.
Their sacrifice would indelibly mark Canada as a nation that
could be called on to help stamp out oppression and occupation
wherever it occurred.
Today there are very few first world war veterans that remain
with us. They are national treasures. We must not let their
passing dull our memory. Long may we honour those who died so
long ago so that their children and their children's children
might inherit a great nation. We, their inheritors, pledge to
keep their stories alive for the children of the 21st century.
* * *
VETERANS WEEK
Mrs. Marlene Jennings (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, the highest military award for bravery in the
Commonwealth is the Victoria Cross and on it are inscribed two
simple words, “For Valour”. Since the theme of Veterans Week
this year is “A Century of Valour”, it is appropriate to
acknowledge that on a per capita basis Canadians have won more
VCs than any other Commonwealth nation.
[Translation]
The first was awarded to Alexander Dunn for heroism in the
Charge of the Light Brigade. Our 95th and last Victoria Cross
was awarded posthumously to Robert Hampton Gray for a successful
attack on a Japanese warship an hour before the Americans
dropped the atomic bomb on Nagasaki, which brought World War II
to an end.
[English]
In war and in peace Canadians have answered the call to duty.
The fact that so many VCs were awarded to our citizens is
symbolic of the bravery of all those who represented our country
under the most difficult of circumstances.
* * *
[Translation]
LE GUIDE DES PAPILLONS DU QUÉBEC
Mr. Ghislain Lebel (Chambly, BQ): Mr. Speaker, this summer an
important work on the butterflies of Quebec and Labrador by
Louis Handfield, a notary in Mont-Saint-Hilaire, in the beautiful
riding of Chambly, was published. It comprises 1,100 pages of
text and colour plates.
It is the outcome of thirty-five long
years of research and observation and thousands of hours of data
collection; it is destined to become an encyclopedia of
knowledge in this field.
When I attended the book launch, Mr. Handfield spoke of his one
regret: the lack of co-operation by Heritage Canada, which does
not allow specimens to be collected in national parks.
On behalf of Mr. Handfield, and in the name of science, I call
upon Heritage Canada to make an exception to this ban for
entomologists research and studies.
I must again express my admiration for Mr. Handfield, a modest,
frank and straightforward gentleman and for his work, which is
sure to be a priceless reference tool for at least the first
hundred years of the new millennium.
Congratulations, Louis, for this wonderful contribution to
natural science.
* * *
NORTEL
Mr. Raymond Lavigne (Verdun—Saint-Henri, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, a
major announcement was made by Nortel yesterday. It is going to
invest close to $340 million in facilities in Canada, creating
1,450 specialized occupation positions in Montreal and 850 in
Ottawa.
The company is doing so in order to meet the constantly growing
demand for optical telecommunications products to be used with
the Internet, this being an area in which Nortel is considered a
world leader.
The Canadian government is delighted with this good news for the
economy, since it proves that conditions are right for new
investments such as this one announced by Nortel. These
conditions give confidence to key economic decision makers.
* * *
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[English]
AGRICULTURE
Mr. David Chatters (Athabasca, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, farm
families in northern Alberta are suffering terribly because of
this summer's extreme drought conditions.
Many of the municipalities in the province of Alberta have
declared this region a disaster area. This should qualify
affected drought areas for federal tax deferral on the sale of
breeding livestock.
The federal minister of agriculture responded by recommending to
the finance minister that he approve tax deferral for farmers
affected by the drought. The finance minister must be just too
interested in spending his multibillion dollar EI surplus to
notice the troubles of farmers. So far there has been no
response.
These farmers have suffered enough hardship. The very least the
finance minister could do is step up and help these farmers by
giving them desperately needed access to the tax deferment
provision.
* * *
WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION
Mr. Bill Blaikie (Winnipeg—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker,
the plan for the WTO meeting in Seattle in December is to
liberalize investment, agriculture and services, thus allowing
the public sector, including education, water, health care,
social and postal services, fire and police services, to be
eventually carved up by multinational corporations.
The NDP along with the Canadian Labour Congress and many other
Canadian groups and individuals oppose further liberalization of
the WTO. We demand that investment and services be taken off the
table and that Canada's ability to govern itself for the sake of
all and for the purposes of social justice be compromised no
further than has already been the case as a result of NAFTA and
the current WTO rules.
It is time for the Liberals to rethink their uncritical approach
to the current model of globalization. Canadians want to have
their policies decided by their elected representatives, not by
WTO bureaucrats or even ministers who take their advice from the
global corporations.
* * *
MADAM JUSTICE BEVERLEY MCLACHLIN
Mr. Ted McWhinney (Vancouver Quadra, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
we welcome the announcement of the forthcoming promotion of Madam
Justice Beverley McLachlin as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court
of Canada. She will be the first woman to be appointed to the
chief justiceship.
Her early teaching work in the law faculty of the University of
British Columbia was followed by service on the County Court of
Vancouver and the Court of Appeal of British Columbia. She had
been Chief Justice of the B.C. Supreme Court prior to her present
appointment on the Supreme Court of Canada.
We salute Madam Justice McLachlin's demonstrated qualities of
classical legal analysis, coupled with a recognition of the
practical possibilities and also the limitations of judicial
activism in social and economic policies.
As a trained philosopher as well as a jurist, Madam Justice
McLachlin offers great promise for her new role of leadership of
the Supreme Court of Canada.
* * *
[Translation]
INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM
Mr. Maurice Godin (Châteauguay, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I speak for
the municipalities in my riding, including those of Mercier,
Châteauguay, Delson and Saint-Constant, which sent me resolutions
and are calling for the immediate implementation of a second
infrastructure program, as was mentioned in the latest throne
speech.
The first program, funded a third by the federal government, a
third by the provinces and a third by the municipalities, was
really successful because the federal government fully respected
provincial jurisdictions, which it unfortunately does not always
do.
The riding of Châteauquay is impatiently waiting for the federal
government to give back some of its many budget surpluses taken
from the provinces so we may finish two projects begun some 20
years ago: the renovation of the Saint-Constant railway museum
and highway 30 in the direction of the 401 to take some pressure
off the south shore bridges to Montreal.
* * *
[English]
DIAMOND MINING
Mr. Gerald Keddy (South Shore, PC): Mr. Speaker, diamond
mining in the Northwest Territories is an exciting, productive
new industry that began with the development of the Ekati mine
last year. Now the Diavik diamond mine in the Lac de Gras area
outside Yellowknife is hoping to receive government approval to
continue its development process.
When these two mines are in operation Canada will become the
fourth largest diamond producing country in the world. These
mines and other potential diamond sites provide a much needed
source of revenue for the territorial governments as well as
employment opportunities for all northerners. The Ekati mine is
expected to be in operation for 20 to 25 years and represents a
$1 billion investment.
The Diavik project is currently waiting to find out if further
environmental reviews will be undertaken. Diamond mining is
environmentally friendly, but companies are awaiting ministerial
approval. Hopefully it is soon coming.
* * *
HELLENIC REPUBLIC
Ms. Eleni Bakopanos (Ahuntsic, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the
Minister of External Affairs of the Hellenic Republic is
currently on an official visit to Canada. His presence
symbolizes the warm ties that bind our two nations.
1415
While in Canada the minister reiterated his guiding principles
of stability, democracy and unity worldwide and particularly in
the Balkans. In endorsing these laudable principles we as
parliamentarians should also support his efforts to establish a
permanent Olympic truce, suspending all hostilities during all
Olympic competition to serve as the seed to greater world peace.
Canada-Greece relations have been strengthened by the efforts of
the Hellenic foreign minister and our foreign minister who have
been working closely together to promote democratic principles,
peace, unity and to combat injustice everywhere, thereby
continuing to build on Hellenism's legacy of noble statesmen.
As a Canadian parliamentarian of Hellenic origin, I am proud of
the continuous efforts for peace and the promotion of human
security of both my birth country, Hellas, and my adopted
country, Canada.
[Editor's Note: Member spoke in Greek]
ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
[English]
AGRICULTURE
Mr. Preston Manning (Leader of the Opposition, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, the Prime Minister of Canada now says that there is no
farm crisis. He sits behind his desk, orders up some statistics
from his officials and comes to the conclusion that the crisis
has disappeared. He never bothers to talk to farmers and their
families. He never bothers to visit the farms. He simply
calculates the crisis out of existence.
When did the Prime Minister become so disconnected from western
Canadians that he is more willing to listen to federal number
crunchers than he is to farmers themselves?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the Prime Minister is very concerned about the farm
crisis. He is certainly willing, as he has already demonstrated,
to listen to farmers and their representatives. That is why he
was willing to have a very early meeting when a delegation came
from western Canada involving premiers and people of all
stakeholder groups. That showed the Prime Minister's interest,
which continues, in working with all concerned to find a fair and
reasonable solution to this serious matter very soon.
Mr. Preston Manning (Leader of the Opposition, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, thousands of Canadian farmers are staring bankruptcy in
the eye and wondering how on earth they will get through the
winter. Thousands of farm children are suffering along with
their parents, wondering how their families are going to make it
at all. Meanwhile in Ottawa the Prime Minister and his minions
are putting together a $47 billion spending spree but cannot even
deliver the $900 million in emergency aid to keep farmers afloat.
How many farmers have to lose their farms and face bankruptcy
before the government and the Prime Minister will acknowledge
there is a crisis?
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, when the opposition party said that we
should not support farmers and that we should cut the ministry et
cetera, this government came to the aid of farmers to the extent
of $900 million. We have changed the program since then to
include and to give more support.
The numbers the hon. member talked about were numbers people in
the western delegation were fully aware of. They were aware of
that before they came. If they did not share that with their
premiers then they would have to ask that question to the
provincial officials that came to visit last week.
Mr. Preston Manning (Leader of the Opposition, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, talk about priorities being out of control. According to
sources, the federal government is spending $125,000 per person
on illegal migrants, but when hard-pressed Saskatchewan and
Manitoba farmers come looking for emergency assistance, the
government says that there is no crisis and no need for help.
If the Saskatchewan and Manitoba farmers were to get in a rusty
boat and throw their Canadian passports overboard, would they
qualify for $125,000 in capital grants this fall?
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, in 1998 and 1999 alone the the federal
government and the Manitoba and Saskatchewan governments provided
$984 million in assistance through the safety net programs to the
farmers in those two provinces. When we add the AIDA support for
1998 and 1999 we will be adding another $550 million worth of
support to producers. It is not enough. We wish we had more. We
wish we could find more resources. We are looking at it and we
are doing all that we possibly can with the resources available.
Miss Deborah Grey (Edmonton North, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
how much more than a $95 billion surplus would be good enough for
the minister?
1420
The Prime Minister and the minister say that things are really
rosy, that the farmers should be celebrating and dancing in the
streets. I was just in Saskatchewan and those people are really
hurting. It does not take long to figure it out.
I spoke with a family who has been farming on that farm since
1910. The young fellow who is farming it now will not last
through this generation. His three boys are probably going to
have to move off the farm.
Why will the Prime Minister not go out to Saskatchewan and talk
to them on their home turf, face to face and tell them things
really are not so bad?
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the hon. member.
Did she tell that young farmer what the Reform Party's policy
was?
Miss Deborah Grey (Edmonton North, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
funny darn thing. He was a Reformer and he is proud of our
policies.
The Prime Minister may think that food happens to grow at the
supermarket, but we know that real families are behind all that
real food production.
Farm families are in deep trouble and the minister knows it.
They need help and what do they get? They get the Prime Minister
telling them things really are not as bad as they seem, and the
fact that they are losing their farms is just part of a positive
trend that is sweeping the prairies and it feels so good.
When will the Prime Minister go out there and tell these people
face to face that it is just happy days are here again?
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I note that the hon. member said the
individual was a Reformer. I can understand why. Maybe the
farmer she spoke to had read the Star Phoenix on August 16
of this year in which the hon. member who just spoke said that
more subsidies for Canadian farmers are not the answer.
* * *
[Translation]
ECONOMIC STATEMENT BY MINISTER OF FINANCE
Mr. Gilles Duceppe (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, BQ): Mr. Speaker, at
first blush, the Minister of Finance seems to be sitting very
pretty.
He is proposing tax cuts and new programs, but he is forgetting
the gaping hole in this lovely scenario, the $33 billion he is
not giving back to those who are providing direct services to
the public, i.e. the provinces.
When will the minister plug this hole and give back to the
provinces the money he cut?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, first
of all, although there were cuts in transfers very early on,
these cuts were not as extensive as those inflicted by the
provinces on municipalities, as was the case in Quebec, for
instance.
Second, in last year's budget, we increased the health transfer
by $11.5 billion over five years. We also increased
equalization payments, and Quebec alone received an additional
$1.4 billion in such payments.
Mr. Gilles Duceppe (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, BQ): Mr. Speaker, these
cuts amounted to $932 million in cash transfers. That is much
more than what the municipalities were cut, as the Minister of
Finance is well aware. The Minister of Finance is not naive.
He can do the math; what matters is what he does with the money
once he has it.
The truth is that cash transfers have decreased. The federal
government has more money than responsibilities.
How can the minister stand by while those providing direct
health, education, and social services to the public do not have
the funds needed to do the job, and those with no responsibility
for these sectors build up surpluses? That is the problem.
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Once again, Mr.
Speaker, the member is talking about health, but we increased
health transfers by $11.5 billion last year.
As for the universities, research and development, we
established the Canadian Foundation for Innovation, 33% of the
funds from which will go to Quebec.
In the throne speech, we announced new research chairs, which
all universities were quick to approve. It is very clear that
the federal government is assuming its responsibilities and we
will continue to do so.
1425
Mr. Michel Gauthier (Roberval, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of
Finance of Canada, since being appointed, has taken $32 billion
away from the provinces. That is fact. It is undeniable.
In
yesterday's economic statement, the Minister of Finance talked
about a lot of things, but said nothing specific about indexing
the tax tables.
Can the minister not make a commitment now to tell taxpayers
what they want to hear, that he will be indexing their tax
tables?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we
are going to do a lot more than that. We are going to look at
what we have already done. Next year, the government will have
cut personal income tax and compensated for indexing at least
four or five times.
Mr. Michel Gauthier (Roberval, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the Minister
of Finance is swimming in billions in surplus. Could he explain
how, on matters not under his jurisdiction, matters of
provincial jurisdiction, such as childhood, the family and
education, he took it upon himself to make announcements, but
was unable to be more specific about tax cuts?
On the subject of the announcement he has just made and the
transfers to the provinces, does the minister not realize that
he should have been specific on these two points and that it is
his duty to tell the public today just what he is going to do?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I
indicated our intention very clearly yesterday not only to cut
taxes, but to lower taxes for the middle class and those most
disadvantaged.
So, I put the question to the hon. member. Why did the Bloc
Quebecois, in its political statement on taxation, refuse to
lower taxes for the most disadvantaged, for all those earning
less than $30,000?
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
The Speaker: Order, please. The hon. leader of the New
Democratic Party.
* * *
[English]
CHILD POVERTY
Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, tax cuts
versus new investments. That is a debate about how to deliver
help. But the question is not about how; it is about who, as in
who most needs help. On that question the government is totally
confused.
Why has the number of children living in poverty in this country
increased each and every year since the Prime Minister came to
office?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the hon. member's facts are quite wrong. If one looks
at the last published numbers, those for between 1996 and 1997,
the number of children living in poor families has actually
declined from 21.1% to 19.8%.
Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, we are
talking about lives. When the government cares and it wants
results, it sets targets. The government set targets for deficit
reduction. Now it is setting targets for decreases in taxes for
high income earners.
Why are there no targets for family farms in crisis? Why are
there no targets to rebuild health care? Why are there no
targets to eliminate child poverty to ensure that all our
children get the best possible start in life? Is it not really
because the government just does not care?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, anybody who has watched what this government has said
and done over the course of the last five years will understand
the very deep feeling of concern that we have for families living
in poverty, for farm families in this country, and to improve the
lot of the ordinary Canadian.
That is why we put another $2 billion in the national child tax
benefit. That is why we have increased CAPC. That is why we
increased the prenatal nutrition program. That is why we have
increased head start. The fact is that this government has acted,
and it has acted consistently.
* * *
1430
TAXATION
Mr. Scott Brison (Kings—Hants, PC): Mr. Speaker, the
Prime Minister has told Canadians that they should move to
another country if they want real tax relief.
Does the finance minister share the views of the Prime Minister
that if Canadians want real tax relief they should leave Canada?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, that is not what the Prime Minister said.
The Prime Minister said that it is the responsibility of
government, while setting an economic climate so that the private
sector can create jobs, to take care of those who cannot help
themselves. It is the responsibility of government to alleviate
the plight of children in poverty. It is the responsibility of
government to provide accessibility to universities. It is the
responsibility of government to take care of Canadians so that
they too have an equal opportunity to succeed.
Mr. Scott Brison (Kings—Hants, PC): Mr. Speaker, what
we have not heard is the Prime Minister say that it is the
responsibility of government to reduce taxes.
The finance minister's economic statement stated that tax
reduction was a priority, not an afterthought. Yet in the Prime
Minister's recent Speech from the Throne there was only half a
page devoted to tax reduction and 24 pages devoted to $32 billion
worth of new spending.
The Prime Minister wrote the throne speech. The finance
minister wrote the economic statement. The question Canadians
are waiting to be answered is who will be writing the budget.
Will it be the free spending, 1970s style Prime Minister, or will
it be the wannabe, tax cutting finance minister?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, whether it be the throne speech, whether it be the
economic update yesterday or whether it be the budget, it will be
the government that will respond and the government will speak
with one voice.
Mr. Monte Solberg (Medicine Hat, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, at
the end of the finance minister's live show yesterday in London,
we were left with two hard facts. The first is that on January
1 taxes will go up. The second is that the only detailed plan
the government has is for $47 billion in new spending.
My question is for the finance minister. Yesterday in London
why is it that we had lights and we had cameras but we had no
action on tax relief?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the lights are out across the opposition benches.
Let me simply explain that yesterday was a fiscal update. The
taxes and the details of tax reduction are done in budget. I
would certainly ask the hon. member to be part of the finance
committee and to consult with Canadians. I look forward to the
recommendations of the finance committee and I look forward to
the budget in February-March.
Mr. Monte Solberg (Medicine Hat, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
fine words but they will not pass the paste up test for most
Canadians.
We are seeing a 15 cent cut in EI premiums but a 40 cent hike in
CPP premiums on January 1, a big tax hike.
Canadians want some tax relief right now. Their taxes are still
going up. If the minister has supposedly cut taxes already, like
he claimed yesterday, why is it that Canadians are not seeing it
on their paycheques?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): First, Mr.
Speaker, of course they are. They have seen a 3% reduction
toward the elimination of the surtax. They have seen a $675
increase in the threshold below which Canadians do not pay any
taxes. We now have a situation where a family of two earning
$30,000 pays absolutely no federal taxes. Where a family is
earning $50,000, there is 15% decrease in taxes.
Those happen to be the facts. What we have also said is that in
each and every budget, beginning with the next one, we will
continue on that path.
* * *
[Translation]
ECONOMIC STATEMENT BY MINISTER OF FINANCE
Mr. Paul Crête (Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques,
BQ): Mr. Speaker, in 1993 one million children in Canada were
living in poverty. This year, the figure is over 1.5 million.
Yesterday, the Minister of Finance bemoaned their situation when
presenting his economic statement.
Can the minister tells us whether this terrible increase in the
number of poor children in Canada is the result of Canada's good
economic performance or of the accomplishments of the Minister
of Finance since 1993?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there
is no doubt that we are enormously concerned that there are
children living in poverty. This is, moreover, the reason my
colleagues in Cabinet have expanded several very significant
programs.
1435
I would like to mention a few: a $2 billion increase in the
national child benefit; an improved child care tax credit, for a
total of $45 million yearly; expansion of the community action
program for children by $100 million yearly. And we will
continue to—
The Speaker: The hon. member for
Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques.
Mr. Paul Crête (Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques,
BQ): Mr. Speaker, how can the minister shed a tear for poor
children when he himself has contributed greatly to child
poverty by excluding thousands of unemployed people from
employment insurance benefits, thus impoverishing their
families?
[English]
Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, employment insurance is a program which
provides benefits to Canadians who were working and who now find
themselves without work. Let us understand that $7 billion a
year goes to families with children through the national child
benefit and the child tax credit. Those are part of the legacy
of the government.
* * *
RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT
Mr. Charlie Penson (Peace River, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, in
spite of the hundreds of millions of dollars that the government
spends on research and development, Canadian companies are still
at the bottom of the heap when it comes to R and D spending.
Yesterday, the finance minister's response was to throw more
money at the problem. That is not the answer. The answer is to
bring down the government's sky-high taxes.
When is the industry minister going to convince his colleagues
to do just that?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, we have the most generous R and D credits of any
industrial country and they are working very well.
At the same time, we have outlined the approach we intend to
take to tax reduction. We intend to make personal income tax
reduction the priority. We intend to make families with children
a priority within that. We also made it very clear that the
government intends to move on business taxes to make sure that we
have as competitive an area as possible when we have the room to
manoeuvre to do so.
We understand full well the necessity of improving R and D. The
issue really is why does the Reform Party not understand. Why
has it opposed every single measure the government has brought
forth in that area?
Mr. Charlie Penson (Peace River, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, no
matter what the finance minister says, there are many prominent
Canadians who just do not agree.
Two weeks ago, Quebec economist Pierre Fortin gave this advice
to the government “Reduce the public debt and cut taxes”. He
did not say spend. He said cut taxes.
What exactly is keeping this message from getting through?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, what is stopping the results of what we have done from
getting through to the other side?
Let us talk about the debt to GDP ratio. In the last two years,
Canada has had the most substantial drop in the debt to GDP ratio
of any industrial country. That is what we have done. We have
cut income taxes. We have cut them in each of the last three
budgets. We are three years ahead of where the Reform Party said
it would be if it were in office, but of course it will never be
in office.
* * *
[Translation]
AIR TRANSPORTATION
Mr. Michel Guimond
(Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île-d'Orléans, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
the government refuses to admit that it gave Onex assurances
that the 10% rule would be changed, even before parliament was
brought into the picture and before Onex made its offer on
August 24.
However, a memo dated August 16, 1999, states that Onex was
seeking a commitment from the Minister of Industry, the Minister
of Transport, and the Office of the Prime Minister that the 10%
rule would be dropped before going ahead with its offer. What
does the government have to say about this?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the
hon. member is mistaken. The government gave no such assurance.
He is quoting from documents provided by Onex, and I repeat
that the government gave no such assurance.
Mr. Michel Guimond
(Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île-d'Orléans, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
this is extremely serious. The government refuses to admit what
it did but, according to this memo, Onex did indeed require that
the government drop the 10% rule before making its offer.
1440
Will the government admit that it knowingly gave Onex a leg up
by promising in advance to amend the legislation so that Onex's
offer would meet legal requirements?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we
made no such promise. The information contained in the hon.
member's memo is false. We gave no such assurance.
* * *
[English]
TRANSITIONAL JOBS FUND
Mrs. Diane Ablonczy (Calgary—Nose Hill, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, the sorry saga of improper dealings with transitional
jobs fund moneys in the Prime Minister's riding continues.
The human resources department set up two unusual trust funds to
keep from having to cancel a TJF grant the Prime Minister
announced for a company that soon after headed for bankruptcy. We
have now learned that both trust funds broke treasury board
guidelines and one even illegally violated the Financial
Administration Act.
Why was helping out the Prime Minister more important than
honouring legal financial controls?
Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's question gives me the
opportunity to remind the House of the importance of the
transitional jobs fund. Over a period of three years, the
government has invested $300 million and leveraged that into $2.7
billion, creating 30,000 jobs for Canadians.
The program works and it works well for Canadians.
Mrs. Diane Ablonczy (Calgary—Nose Hill, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, the jobs fund works well for the Prime Minister.
The point is that it is not being legally and properly
administered. This minister is responsible and does not seem to
care beyond just some nice cant about how good the fund is.
Well the fund is being mismanaged. It is Canadians' money and
the minister should start paying attention. What is she going to
do about the mismanagement of the fund?
Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, let us clarify that the program is
available to all areas of Canada where unemployment has been
extremely high and it has been progressive.
In terms of the projects that the hon. member was referring to,
they were managed appropriately. They went through the
acceptable review process. That has been fully addressed.
* * *
[Translation]
PLUTONIUM IMPORTS
Ms. Jocelyne Girard-Bujold (Jonquière, BQ): Mr. Speaker, there is
unanimous opposition to the plan to import plutonium.
In fact, the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs rejected it
in December 1998, and public opposition is growing. Yet the
government is determined to carry out MOX trials at Chalk River
as early as next month.
My question is for the Minister of the Environment. How can the
minister initiate a debate on the route the plutonium will take,
when the House has not yet voted on the appropriateness of
importing it?
Hon. Ralph E. Goodale (Minister of Natural Resources and
Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, all countries have a duty to support nuclear
non-proliferation. Through Canada's nuclear sites, we can make a
real contribution to world efforts for disarmament.
[English]
On this issue, the Canadian government has sought public views
on the shipment of these samples. We have briefed local
officials. We have held public forums. We have provided all
answers to all questions. We have provided a public comment
period. All of that input is now being weighed very carefully by
the government and particularly by the Department of Transport
before a final decision is taken.
* * *
FOREIGN AFFAIRS
Hon. Charles Caccia (Davenport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my
question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.
Canadians believe it is urgent that we protect Canada's water
from removals and exports. Can the Minister of Foreign Affairs
inform the House when he plans to introduce legislation on bulk
water exports and removals?
Hon. Lloyd Axworthy (Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, there is no question that this is a crucial issue.
The government has been following a three-track approach.
First, the Minister of the Environment has been working with his
provincial counterparts to develop a broad domestic consensus.
1445
Second, we were co-operating with the United States through the
International Joint Commission. A report has been tabled.
Third, and perhaps most important, I intend very shortly to
bring in amendments to the International Boundary Waters Treaty
Act which will provide very effective protection for Canadian
water and make sure that we cherish this very important resource
for Canada.
* * *
AGRICULTURE
Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, in the 1997 election I ran against a Liberal cabinet
minister by the name of Dr. Jon Gerrard on the Reform platform
for agriculture. I am here and he is there.
The Prime Minister must be the only one who believes that
Saskatchewan's farm income has improved by $400 million
overnight. Certainly no farmer I know will see the benefit of
this bureaucratic—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
The Speaker: Order, please. The hon. member can put his
question.
Mr. Howard Hilstrom: With these numbers that have
apparently been cooked up in the last few days, why is the Prime
Minister hiding the truth about the farm income crisis?
The Speaker: We are getting very close in the use of our
words such as hiding the truth in this kind of question period. I
would ask the hon. member to withdraw the words hiding the truth.
Mr. Howard Hilstrom: Mr. Speaker, I withdraw hiding the
truth.
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, when the same process involving the same
officials and all the same parties were used to put numbers and
projected income for farm income together in July, the hon.
member and his party did not say that they were bogus numbers or
that they were cooked up.
Exactly the same people were involved. The numbers are a little
better because there were increases in crops, increases in the
use of NISA programs, et cetera. I am sorry the hon. member is
disappointed that there was a bigger crop in the west this year,
for example, than was anticipated in July.
Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, the agriculture minister should know that when forecasts
are made up by economists and Statistics Canada they use
conservative figures that are realistic.
What has happened is that the figures are now reflecting the
most optimistic thing the Prime Minister can think of: farmers
are doing well; they have $1.5 billion.
Why are they still out there suffering and losing their farms?
Has the Prime Minister chosen to listen to bureaucrats instead of
farmers?
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I will repeat. The very same process
with the very same people in the very same organizations that put
the numbers together in their projections for July of this year
were used and were involved, including the officials in each of
the two provinces that were involved in July, will be involved
for next February, and were involved in these.
Those officials have been involved in this process since October
15 of this year. They were fully aware, full participants and
had their input. Changes were made—
The Speaker: The hon. member for Palliser.
Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, last
month's update for prairie provinces on the 1999 farm income
forecast has finally been public.
For Saskatchewan the net farm income will be significantly below
the five year average. In fact it will be significantly below
the five year average for next year as well.
Why did the government hide behind these numbers as an excuse
not to give either hope or relief to farmers when they were here
on Parliament Hill last week?
1450
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there was no hiding behind any numbers at
all. I would have to assume that the officials in the provinces
cleared those numbers with their politicians. If they did not, I
guess the member should ask those politicians why their officials
did not share them with them.
The numbers are better than projected in July of this year. We
are all glad of that. That does not take away from the fact that
a number of producers are hurting out there. That is why we
continue to look at and continue to make changes to assist in
every way we possibly can.
Mr. Dick Proctor (Palliser, NDP): Mr. Speaker, why does
the minister confuse the issue? Why does the government not
commit to helping prairie farmers who have been decimated by the
slashing of agriculture domestic support payments proposed by
these folks over here and readily accepted by you guys instead
of—
The Speaker: Order, please. I ask the hon. member to go
directly to his question.
Mr. Dick Proctor: Farmers cannot compete with the foreign
subsidies which we know they are facing. I would simply ask the
minister what he will do about it and when.
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we have done a lot about it. We would
like to do more. Yes, we would. We have been continuing to make
changes to assist more producers, and we are not done making
changes yet.
* * *
[Translation]
TRANSFER PAYMENTS TO PROVINCES
Mr. André Bachand (Richmond—Arthabaska, PC): Mr. Speaker,
yesterday we learned that within three to five years, $25 to $35
billion dollars would be spent, or invested, in existing or new
programs.
My question is for the Minister of Finance. Is he open to the
idea of reinvesting these billions of dollars into transfer
payments to the provinces, or is he shutting the door
permanently on any new possibility of transfer payments to the
provinces?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, all
the hon. member needs to do is to look at what this government
has done in the past two years.
The first thing we did after eliminating the deficit was to
increase transfer payments to the provinces.
Mr. André Bachand (Richmond—Arthabaska, PC): Mr. Speaker, the
minister has a problem. Between now and 2003 or 2004, transfer
payments will be at the same level as they were before the cuts.
With his surplus and his great 40-day consultation, is he
prepared to consider new amounts for transfer to the provinces?
A number of programs administered by the provinces within their
own areas of jurisdiction are in difficulty. Is the minister's
mind open or closed to the idea of transferring more money to
the provinces in coming months or years?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this
is the same question, for which I have the same answer. When
the past actions of this government are examined, what was done
last year for example, there has been a $11.5 billion increase
over five years. It is very clear that the federal government
is prepared to assume its responsibilities.
Now, as far as the committee's recommendations are concerned, I
am most anxious to hear what it has to say to us.
* * *
[English]
ANTI-TOBACCO ADVERTISEMENTS
Mr. Gurbax Singh Malhi (Bramalea—Gore—Malton—Springdale,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the health minister.
Health Canada has produced a new series of anti-tobacco
advertisements.
Since some 45,000 Canadians died from tobacco related diseases
last year, could the minister explain what the government hopes
the new ads will accomplish?
Mr. Yvon Charbonneau (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his
question.
[Translation]
In reality, when it is said that 45,000 Canadians die each year
from tobacco-related diseases, this means one adult in four dies
in this way. This is an extremely serious situation, and we
have spent about $120 million in the past four or five years on
anti-smoking campaigns.
The series of ads to which my colleague is referring was very
effective, and we want to go even further in our anti-smoking
campaign.
* * *
[English]
AGRICULTURE
Mr. Rick Casson (Lethbridge, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
yesterday the finance minister told Canadians that there should
not be a debate about numbers. At the same time the Prime
Minister has chosen to hide behind some very slippery numbers.
1455
The farm crisis is not about numbers. We have to get past that.
It is about people. It is about families. It is about parents
who cannot afford to take care of their children. It is about
losing a way of life that has existed in the country for
generations.
Why is the government choosing to stand behind some slippery
numbers instead of facing the people they are destroying?
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we have not stood behind numbers. We
come out with facts when the facts are there. We explain those
facts in co-operation with everybody else.
Because we do not believe in providing no support like the
Reform Party does, we put forward $900 million. We have changed
the program and we are not finished announcing support yet. I
look forward to providing even more assistance.
* * *
[Translation]
OFF RESERVE ABORIGINAL PEOPLE
Mr. André Bachand (Richmond—Arthabaska, PC): Mr. Speaker, the
federal government is ignoring its responsibilities by failing
to include native people not living on reserves in its programs
and funding.
In the Marshall decision, the government is once again giving a
restrictive interpretation to the decision by the supreme court
in refusing to consider off reserve aboriginal people.
Why is the Minister of Indian Affairs content to be responsible
for aboriginal people living on the reserve but not those living
off it?
[English]
Hon. Ralph E. Goodale (Minister of Natural Resources and
Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the legal responsibility in the law with respect to
first nations people living on reserves is clearly with the
Government of Canada.
In relation to other aboriginal peoples, the solutions that we
need to find in the country to enhance our relationship with
aboriginal people and improve their quality of life is a
partnership arrangement involving not just the Government of
Canada but also the provinces and all others, including those in
the private sector who can make a genuine contribution.
We all need to take this issue fundamentally very seriously.
* * *
AGRICULTURE
Mr. John Solomon (Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, NDP): Mr.
Speaker, the agriculture minister's farm income projections for
Saskatchewan are deeply flawed.
Saskatchewan government officials say that input costs like fuel
have skyrocketed, not dropped like he says. Revenues will be
less than he claims on durum and other items. So far there have
been $325 million in errors and counting. In western Canada
there have been bogus projections from a discredited Liberal
government.
At least Trudeau was honest enough to just give us the finger.
Why will the minister not admit that there is a real farm income
crisis and announce some real farm aid now?
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we recognized that a long time ago. That
is why we have done what we have done. That is why we are
continuing to find ways in which we can do more.
* * *
TAXATION
Mr. John Herron (Fundy—Royal, PC): Mr. Speaker, in
yesterday's economic fiscal update the Minister of Finance
claimed the government was committed to helping children.
The minister can start helping children by introducing the
option for parents to jointly file their income tax returns using
a separate tax table or incorporating the concept of income
splitting.
Will the finance minister commit today to investing in the best
proven institution for children, the Canadian family, and permit
the option of joint filing or income splitting for those Canadian
families who choose to do so?
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, a Commons subcommittee held hearings and submitted a
report on this matter last spring. It was a very valuable report
and one that the government has certainly taken into
consideration.
The finance committee will now be out. The hon. member is
certainly welcome to make representations. As before, we will
listen to what the finance committee has to say.
* * *
CULTURE
Ms. Colleen Beaumier (Brampton West—Mississauga, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, last spring the trade subcommittee travelled across
the country listening to the concerns of Canadians pertaining to
the protection of our culture.
In the upcoming WTO negotiations in Seattle what action is the
Canadian government taking to ensure our independence to
determine and maintain our own cultural policy?
[Translation]
Mr. Mauril Bélanger (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Canadian Heritage, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for
her important question, particularly so on the eve of this round
of negotiations at the World Trade Organization.
Canada has taken a leadership role in this. The Minister of
Canadian Heritage is currently in Paris. With her French
counterpart, under the aegis of UNESCO, she is chairing a round
table on cultural diversity.
In addition, we are very proud to be associated with the
Government of Quebec in launching the coalition for cultural
diversity under Robert Pilon. We wish him both strength and
success.
* * *
1500
[English]
PRESENCE IN GALLERY
The Speaker: We have a distinguished guest with us
today and a distinguished group of people.
I draw the attention of hon. members to the presence in our
gallery of His Excellency George A. Papandreou, Minister of
Foreign Affairs of the Hellenic Republic.
Some hon. members: Hear, hear.
The Speaker: Also today in the gallery we have a
group of teachers from all parts of our country who are
participating in the Fourth Annual Teachers' Institute on
Canadian Parliamentary Democracy.
[Translation]
The objective of this forum is to promote better understanding
of the Canadian political process.
[English]
Please welcome these teachers who are educating the next
generations of Canadian citizens.
Some hon. members: Hear, hear.
The Speaker: Today we are going to hear tributes for a
former New Democratic Party member of parliament, Alf Gleave.
* * *
THE LATE ALFRED PULLEN GLEAVE
Hon. Lorne Nystrom (Regina—Qu'Appelle, NDP): Mr.
Speaker, I would like to say a few words of tribute to a former
colleague of ours, Alf Gleave, who at the age of 88 passed away
in August of this year.
Alf Gleave was the member of parliament for what was known then
as the riding of Saskatoon—Biggar. I had the honour in 1968 to
be his seatmate. He was 58 years old. I thought that was pretty
ancient at that time as I was 22. I am beginning to see that it
is a lot younger now than it used to be. Alf Gleave was a
wonderful person to have as a seatmate.
He was elected to parliament in 1968.
He was re-elected in 1972 and sat in the House until 1974.
1505
Before he entered politics Mr. Gleave was a farmer. He farmed
near the town of Biggar, Saskatchewan from 1938 until 1972. When
he was elected to parliament he immediately became very well
known, partly because he was the former president of the National
Farmers' Union of Canada. When he was elected in 1968 he was
chosen immediately as the chairman of the New Democratic Party
caucus and he served in that position for a number of years.
In 1968 and 1969 we had a debate which was a bit like the debate
we are having now. It was a debate over a farm crisis, mainly
over what we called in those days tough and damp wheat or tough
and damp grain. He quickly became a national figure, leading
that debate in the House of Commons at a time when debates on
public policy centred much more so in this place than they do
today. He was a leader in that capacity for a long time.
Alf Gleave was born in Ontario, but he moved to Saskatchewan
when he was six years old. He farmed as a young man and he
continued to farm until 1972. Before he entered politics he was
the president of the National Farmers' Union of Canada, and
before that he was the president of the Farmers' Union of
Saskatchewan from 1949 until 1954. He was also a director of the
Canadian Federation of Agriculture. In 1964 he was appointed as
a member of the Economic Council of Canada. He was also a
director of the Saskatchewan Power Corporation and a number of
other organizations in the province of Saskatchewan.
Between 1959 and 1962 he served as an advisor to the federal
government during the international wheat agreement negotiations
in Geneva, Switzerland. Those were very important negotiations,
which meant a lot to prairie farmers as they obtained an
agreement for the export and sale of grain around the world.
He was also very active in the co-operative movement, the
general co-op movement, the Saskatchewan Wheat Pool, the credit
union movement in our province, and indeed across the country.
After his political career ended in 1974 he remained very active
in many of the organizations that he had been active in before.
He was also a regular columnist, having a bi-monthly column in
The Saskatoon StarPhoenix on agricultural issues through
much of the 1970s and 1980s. He was energetic. He was always
involved. He always spoke with a great deal of compassion on
issues concerning rural Canada, western Canada and agriculture in
particular.
In 1991 he wrote a book called United We Stand. As Mr.
Gleave passed away at the age of 88, he was up in years when he
wrote this book. It is one of the more comprehensive histories
that I have ever read of prairie farmers between 1901 and 1975.
Mr. Gleave was always very active. He was very effective in
advancing the philosophy that when farm people and rural people
are better off, the people in the cities and the towns across
this country are also much better off, and that when the economy
is strong on the farm, the economy of the country is also strong
because agriculture indeed is the very foundation of our economy.
I can remember him rising beside me through those six years,
asking questions and making speeches which employed that
philosophy time and time again.
I would like to express on behalf of myself, my party and I am
sure all members of parliament who knew him, our great respect
for a very decent human being and for a very intelligent human
being. He was a very passionate advocate of the causes of the
farmers of this country, both before he got into politics, when
he was in politics and after he left politics.
I also want to extend our condolences to his wife Mary, who was
always at his side, to his family and to his many friends, not
only in Saskatchewan, but indeed right across Canada.
Hon. Ralph E. Goodale (Minister of Natural Resources and
Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, it is with great respect that I rise in the House today
to speak of the passing of a man who gave his life and his energy
to the well-being of the people of Saskatchewan and the people of
Canada, Mr. Alfred Pullen Gleave.
Though born in West Zorra Township in Ontario, Alf Gleave's
heart and home were on the prairies.
Living in Biggar, Saskatchewan, with his family from 1918, he was
first and foremost a farmer and very proud of it. He built his
life in this honourable profession, so inherently important to
the province of Saskatchewan. The farming community, in turn,
looked to him for leadership on many issues. He was a life
member of the National Farmers' Union. In the first 20 years of
his working life he served as a director and then president of
the Saskatchewan Farmers' Union and then the National Farmers'
Union respectively. His dedication to farming will be fondly
remembered by the people of the Biggar district and indeed by
farmers all across Canada.
1510
His deep commitments carried Mr. Gleave into the political
arena. From 1968 until 1974 he was the elected member of
parliament for the constituency of Saskatoon—Biggar. A member
of the New Democratic Party, Mr. Gleave earned the respect of
members from all parties. He was chairman of the NDP caucus from
1968 until 1972 and served as the party's agricultural critic.
His priorities were always clear in his writing, in his speeches
and in the issues that he chose to pursue locally, nationally and
internationally. One could never have any doubt about where he
stood.
It is fitting, I suppose, that we mark his passing at a time
when a federal byelection is under way to fill a vacancy in the
House for the very riding which he once represented. Always a
competitor, Alf Gleave would be thoroughly enjoying the race.
On behalf of the Government of Canada, I want to join all hon.
members in extending our sympathies to his wife and family, as
well as his very broad circle of friends.
Mr. Roy Bailey (Souris—Moose Mountain, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, on behalf of the people of Saskatchewan, members of
parliament from Saskatchewan and the party that I represent, I am
pleased to pay tribute to a man who not only came from
Saskatchewan and made Saskatchewan people proud of his efforts,
but a man who, like so many people from my province, was proud to
come from that province which often suffers great adversity.
As has already been mentioned, he was a grain farmer, but his
interests, like so many grain farmers, went beyond the actual
farm itself. Alf wanted to do something for all of Saskatchewan.
His quest and his goal was to do just that.
He served as president of the Saskatchewan Farmers' Union as
well as the National Farmers' Union. He gave much of his time
and provided Canada with much insight into the agricultural
situation in Saskatchewan. As my hon. colleague from
Regina—Qu'Appelle mentioned, he also served on many boards,
sometimes in an advisory capacity. He was indeed a credit to
Saskatchewan.
I bring to the House a quote of Alf's. He wrote that each
generation must fight for what it wants because good things do
not just happen. That statement was never more true than it is
today. That is exactly why we will find a real fight going on in
all of Saskatchewan, in all of the west, in the hope of saving,
in many cases, fifth generation farmers from complete disaster.
Farmers who lived through the thirties did not just complain
about the living conditions; they went out and did something
about them. Sometimes adversity brings about strong character.
That is exactly what Alf Gleave gave to Canada, to the House and
to the New Democratic Party.
I am proud to have lived very close for 12 years to the seat
that Alf represented in the House.
1515
It was Alf's sincerity, courage and dedication that has made a
tremendous example for people to follow that goes beyond
political parties.
On behalf of my party and on behalf of all of the people in the
House, I want to extend our condolences to his family and to
everyone everywhere in Canada who remembered him fondly.
[Translation]
Mr. Daniel Turp (Beauharnois—Salaberry, BQ): Mr. Speaker, on
behalf of the Bloc Quebecois, I too wish to pay tribute to
Alfred Pullen Gleave, who sat as a member of the New Democratic
Party in the House of Commons from 1968 to 1974 and represented
the riding of Saskatoon-Biggar.
A farm producer, grain farmer and seed grower by profession, he
was a member of agricultural unions and, as the member for
Regina—Qu'Appelle reminded us earlier, was president of the
Saskatchewan Farmers Union and the National Farmers Union.
As he wrote in the introduction to his autobiographical United
We Stand—Prairie Farmers 1901-1975:
[English]
“Political action was an extension of the farmer's movement. I
used it as well as I could to advance western Canadians'
interests in general and the farmer's movement in particular.”
[Translation]
During the six years he sat in the House, he was an ardent
defender of farmers and a formidable member of the Standing
Committee on Agriculture. He was a feisty MP, as my colleague
and friend, the hon. member for Winnipeg-Transcona, just told me.
He was particularly interested in issues having to do with the
price of wheat, farm marketing boards, price controls and
inflation. He served as president of his party's caucus and
also served a leader, David Lewis who, like his predecessor,
Tommy Douglas, was, in his words, and I am again quoting from
United We Stand, “an outstanding man”.
To a man whose efforts gave meaning to the slogan “Humanity
first” of the CCF, the forerunner to the New Democratic Party,
to the man who also toiled on behalf of his family, his
constituents and his fellow citizens for
[English]
“a more secure and bountiful life for themselves by working
together, by sharing the load”,
[Translation]
members of the Bloc Quebecois pay a final tribute, and to the
family and friends of the late Alf Gleave, present their deepest
condolences.
[English]
Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon—Souris, PC): Mr. Speaker, it
is with great honour that I rise on behalf of the Progressive
Conservative Party to pay tribute to the New Democratic Party
member of parliament who served his constituency of
Saskatoon-Biggar with great dignity and professionalism.
I did not realize until today that the member we are paying
tribute to, Mr. Gleave, was a seatmate of the member for
Regina—Qu'Appelle. I suspect that Mr. Gleave had a great sense
of humour. I suspect he had a great deal of endurance. I wish he
had more years in the House so that he could have passed on some
of his experience to the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle.
Mr. Gleave gave years of his life working for the people of
Saskatchewan, whether it was through his involvement with
co-operatives, as president of the Saskatchewan Farmers Union or
as a member of this House.
I did not know Mr. Gleave personally but I know people like Mr.
Gleave, an individual who took farming as a profession, an
individual who had pride in what he did by working the land. He
was a man who worked for his community, a man who worked for his
neighbours and a man who worked for his profession, that of being
a farmer. I know people, as do members of the opposition and the
government, just like Mr. Gleave.
Mr. Gleave died this past summer at the age of 88. His words of
advice during his tenure as member of parliament still ring true
today. As was mentioned by the member of the Reform Party, and
which is important to repeat, Mr. Gleave talked about how each
generation must fight for what they want because good things do
not just happen.
Good things come to people through hard work, endurance and
perseverance. I would have loved to have had the opportunity to
work and to sit in the House with Mr. Gleave because what I read
and hear of him is more of those traits that I wish more
individuals in the House and certainly in this society would
have.
1520
I extend my condolences on behalf of the Progressive
Conservative Party to the surviving members of the Gleave family.
I would personally like to thank Mr. Gleave for all the years of
his public service.
Mr. Wayne Easter (Malpeque, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I will
say a few short words and add to what has already been said in
terms of paying tribute to Alf Gleave.
I remember him very well as a friend and, to a certain extent,
as a mentor. He was president of the National Farmers Union and
worked in the House as a member of parliament. His interest was
certainly the farm and he adopted the motto that people are
important.
As a young individual in the farm movement in the early
seventies, there were several people who inspired me to become
involved in public life. Alf was one of those people to me.
I had many sessions with Alf over the years, but after coming
here in 1993 as a member on the government side and as a member
of the standing committee on agriculture, it was not unusual at
all to see Alf in his older years sitting in the agricultural
committee room listening to the hearings. He was interested in
what all sides were saying. He gave some us on the government
side a lot of criticism at times for some of the things we were
doing, but his belief showed through in terms of how important it
was that programs and benefits be applied to the farm sector.
I join with all others here today who have recognized Alf Gleave
for his life's work. I also extend my condolences to his family.
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
[English]
GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO PETITIONS
Mr. Derek Lee (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table, in
both official languages, the government's response to six
petitions.
* * *
INTERPARLIAMENTARY DELEGATIONS
Ms. Colleen Beaumier (Brampton West—Mississauga, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present to the House, in both
official languages, the report on the meeting of the Asia-Pacific
Group of the Inter-Parliamentary Union held in Ulaanbaatar,
Mongolia from July 26 to July 31, 1999.
* * *
COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
PROCEDURE AND HOUSE AFFAIRS
Mr. Derek Lee (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I
have the honour to present the sixth report of the Standing
Committee on Procedure and House Affairs regarding the selection
of votable items for Private Members' Business in accordance with
Standing Order 92.
* * *
NATIONAL DEFENCE ACT
Mr. Inky Mark (Dauphin—Swan River, Ref.) moved for leave
to introduce Bill C-298, an act to amend the National Defence Act
(Snowbirds).
He said: Mr. Speaker, I would first like to thank the hon.
member for Red Deer for supporting my bill.
Canada's air demonstration team, the Snowbirds, are a national
symbol to all Canadians. Its mission is to demonstrate the
skill, professionalism and teamwork of the Canadian forces to the
public. The Snowbirds are without equal around the world and are
great ambassadors of Canada.
Today I am pleased to introduce my private member's bill which
amends the National Defence Act so that the Snowbirds will remain
forever a part of Canada's armed forces and Canada's military
heritage.
1525
On behalf of all Canadians, I ask all members of the House to
support the bill to protect the future of our Snowbirds.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and
printed)
* * *
FAMILY FARM COST OF PRODUCTION PROTECTION ACT
Hon. Lorne Nystrom (Regina—Qu'Appelle, NDP) moved for
leave to introduce Bill C-299, an act to provide cost of
production protection for the family farm.
He said: Mr. Speaker, this is a very appropriate bill
introduced on a day when we just paid tribute to Alf Gleave, who
was the former agriculture critic of our party and the National
Farmers Union president.
The bill provides a formula where farmers would be guaranteed
their cost production, not just on crops that are produced in
this country, but also livestock that are produced in this
country. In other words, it would be a long range farm program
where there would be stability for the farmers based on a formula
that reflects their actual input costs.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and
printed)
* * *
CANADA ENDANGERED SPECIES PROTECTION ACT
Hon. Charles Caccia (Davenport, Lib.) moved for leave to
introduce Bill C-300, an act respecting the protection of
wildlife species in Canada from extirpation or extinction.
He said: Mr. Speaker, the committee on the status of endangered
wildlife reports that in Canada 339 species are at risk of
extinction and habitat loss is the number one cause. Yet there
is no federal law protecting the habitat of Canada's endangered
wildlife.
The bill aims at: first, protecting all endangered species and
their habitat; second, identifying species at risk and the
factors that threaten them and their habitat; third, making it an
offence to harm, disturb or kill endangered species or their
habitat; fourth, setting the stage for federal-provincial mirror
legislation.
The bill serves as a benchmark for the government legislation
soon to be introduced. Seven years ago, Canada signed in Rio the
convention on biological diversity. In view of Canada's
commitment to the world community and the fact that a recent poll
found that eight Canadians out of ten are in favour of strong
endangered species legislation, I urge the government to act
without delay.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and
printed)
* * *
HOMEOWNERS' FREEDOM FROM DOUBLE TAXATION ACT
Mr. Ken Epp (Elk Island, Ref.) moved for leave to
introduce Bill C-301, an act to amend the Income Tax Act
(deduction of property taxes paid in respect of a principal
residence).
He said: Mr. Speaker, when homeowners pay their property tax
they pay it with money on which they have paid income tax. For
example, if they have a $2,400 property tax bill, they have to
earn $4,000 in order to pay it.
We are opposed to double taxation and so I am introducing this
private member's bill which would do away with that anomaly. It
is based on the principle that Canadian taxpayers should not have
to pay taxes on money that they earn for the sole purpose of
paying taxes.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and
printed)
* * *
CRIMINAL CODE
Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Ref.) moved for
leave to introduce Bill C-302, an act to amend the Criminal Code
(conditional sentencing).
He said: Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague
for Wild Rose for seconding my bill.
Conditional sentencing was introduced in the 35th parliament in
the former Bill C-41. Since that time, tens of thousands of
conditional sentences have been handed down.
Most of these sentences are for petty crimes. However many have
been handed down for crimes as serious as sexual assault,
manslaughter, drunk driving and drug trafficking.
1530
In 1997 the B.C. Court of Appeal stated in a decision regarding
conditional sentencing that “if parliament had intended to
exclude certain offences from consideration it should have done
so in clear language”.
My bill does precisely that. It lists the offences to be
excluded from any possibility of receiving a conditional
sentence. The justice minister wants Canadians to wait for the
supreme court to decide whether or not conditional sentences are
appropriate. I believe these decisions are to be made in
parliament with direction from Canadians, not the courts.
A recent national poll states that 84% of Canadians are in
favour of this bill. I encourage all members of parliament to
support the bill and the overwhelming view of the majority of
Canadians.
The Deputy Speaker: I commend the hon. member for the
speed with which he moved through his remarks, but I remind all
hon. members that the purpose of their speech on introduction is
to give a brief explanation of the purpose of the bill, not to
make a speech.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and
printed)
* * *
CRIMINAL CODE
Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Ref.) moved for
leave to introduce Bill C-303, an act to amend the criminal code
and the Young Offenders Act (capital punishment).
The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member for Prince
George—Peace River, on a succinct explanation.
Mr. Jay Hill: Mr. Speaker, I was trying to be as succinct
as the hon. member for Davenport earlier.
Again I would like to thank my hon. colleague from Wild Rose for
seconding the bill. I believe that Canada should hold a binding
referendum on capital punishment so Canadian people, and not
political parties, can decide whether or not it should be
reinstated.
A Reform government has pledged to do this. However the
Liberals do not believe in allowing Canadians to exercise that
much power. Today I am reintroducing my bill to reinstate the
death penalty for adults convicted of first degree murder. In
addition, the bill also imposes a range of stiff sentences for
youths convicted of murder.
Not all murderers deserve the death penalty, but in most heinous
cases such as Clifford Olson, Paul Bernardo and a Karla Homolka
the punishment must fit the crime.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and
printed)
* * *
COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
FISHERIES AND OCEANS
Mr. Derek Lee (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, there
have been consultations among House leaders and I think you would
find unanimous consent for the adoption of the following motion:
That the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans be authorized
to travel to Prince Edward Island, Halifax, Moncton and the Gaspé
during the week of November 21 to 27, 1999 for the purpose of its
study on the implications of the September 17 supreme court
decision on R. v Marshall on the management of the fisheries in
the Atlantic region and that the necessary staff do accompany the
committee and that sufficient funds be allotted for the travel.
The Deputy Speaker: Does the hon. parliamentary secretary
have unanimous consent to move the motion?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Deputy Speaker: The House has heard the terms of the
motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
(Motion agreed to)
* * *
PETITIONS
AGRICULTURE
Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon—Souris, PC): Mr. Speaker,
there has been a lot said in the House recently about the
ineffectiveness of the AIDA program, the farm crisis, and the
questions and non-answers from the minister.
I have the pleasure to present two petitions today totalling 181
pages of signatories from Manitoba and Saskatchewan who say that
the AIDA program does not truly reflect the true needs and
requirements of western Canadian farmers.
The petitioners are asking for the immediate removal of the AIDA
program and to have it replaced with an acreage payment that
would be implemented immediately so farmers could have some
support and assistance over the next number of months.
I would like to put the petition forward to the House.
TELEPHONE SERVICES
Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have
spoken in the House before about the lack of telephones in a part
of Peterborough county.
1535
I now present a petition on behalf of scores of people in the
county who say that whereas Canada is the most connected country
in the world and whereas Canadians pioneered telephones and
telephone service, it is extraordinary that there are homes in
southern Ontario, specifically on Peterborough County Road 40,
that do not have telephone service. A short drive from the city
of Peterborough there are families with children without
telephones. They have telephone polls at their gates and there
are homes with phones a couple of kilometres away.
Therefore the petitioners call upon parliament to intervene on
behalf of these people through relevant federal departments, the
CRTC and Bell Canada.
CANADA POST
Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have
a petition from rural mail carriers and people concerned about
them. They point out that rural mail carriers often earn less
than minimum wage. They have working conditions reminiscent of
another era.
Therefore the petitioners call upon parliament to repeal section
13(5) of the Canada Post Corporation Act.
CRUELTY TO ANIMALS
Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I
present another petition on behalf of many scores of citizens in
the Peterborough area. This brings the total to many thousands
who are concerned about cruelty to pets.
As members know a dog was horrifically dragged in Peterborough
county this summer and severely injured. The petitioners point
out that in the criminal code these animals are simply regarded
as property and offences against them are little more than
property offences.
Therefore they call upon parliament to work toward swift and
effective action that works to modernize Canada's laws dealing
with crimes against animals, and that the penalties for such
actions be made strict enough to act as a deterrent against such
behaviour.
TAXATION
Mr. Ken Epp (Elk Island, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I have
several petitions to present today. The first one adds 32 more
names to those families who choose to raise their children at
home with one of the parents staying home with them. They are
calling for an end to the discriminatory tax practices with
regard to that choice.
CHILD PORNOGRAPHY
Mr. Ken Epp (Elk Island, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, my second
petition adds 279 names to the approximate 3,500 received from my
riding and the over 300,000 names tabled in the House on the
issue of child pornography.
They plead with the government to take whatever measures are
necessary to reinstate immediately the criminal code provision
which makes the possession of child pornography illegal.
IMMIGRATION
Mr. Gary Lunn (Saanich—Gulf Islands, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
I am honoured today to present a petition on behalf of over
10,000 people not only of Saanich—Gulf Islands but also of
Victoria, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca and all other ridings of
British Columbia.
The petitioners are calling upon parliament to enact changes to
our immigration law so that people arriving on our shores, in our
airports or coming across our borders who are not bona fide
refugees can be sent home immediately without delay.
The petitioners advocate that legislation be enacted requiring
refugee claimants to demonstrate through identification,
documentation or any other means that they are genuinely fleeing
persecution. If they are unable to do so they should face
deportation immediately without delay.
* * *
QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER
Mr. Derek Lee (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I ask
that all questions be allowed to stand.
The Deputy Speaker: Is that agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
* * *
MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Mr. Derek Lee (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we
had intended to try to deal with item P-1 today. Under the
circumstances I would ask that all Notices of Motions for the
Production of Papers be allowed to stand.
The Deputy Speaker: Is that agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
GOVERNMENT ORDERS
[English]
SPEECH FROM THE THRONE
RESUMPTION OF DEBATE ON ADDRESS IN REPLY
The House resumed from October 18 consideration of the motion
for an address to Her Excellency the Governor General in reply to
her speech at the opening of the session.
Hon. John Manley (Minister of Industry, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, at the outset of my remarks, as we are responding to the
Speech from the Throne that opened this session of parliament, I
would once again like to thank the people of my riding of Ottawa
South for their continuing support. I believe it is a great
privilege to serve as a member of the House of Commons and I am
proud to serve my constituents, as well as the people of Canada,
in my capacity as Minister of Industry.
1540
I am also very proud to have the opportunity to respond to the
Speech from the Throne which I believe lays out a balanced agenda
and establishes a solid foundation for the government to move
forward into the 21st century.
It is among the chief responsibilities of the Minister of
Industry to try to prepare the nation for the challenges of the
future, knowing that what the world we will face in a decade will
probably differ from the nineties even more than this decade has
differed from the eighties. This is the reason I have dedicated
myself over the past six years to helping foster innovation,
science, research and development, and connectedness.
[Translation]
Year by year, our government has endeavoured to help Canadians
build a new economy through policies and programs whose sights
have been set on the 21st century.
For example, we invested a billion dollars in the Canada
Foundation for Innovation to help build the research
infrastructure in Canada.
We created the Canada millennium scholarship fund. This January,
we will begin generating over 100,000 scholarships each year to
low- and middle-income post-secondary students.
We launched an Information Highway agenda—Connecting Canadians—to
make Canada the most connected country in the world by the year
2000. Let is looks at some of the results.
[English]
In Rankin Inlet in the High Arctic people have made the
transition from an isolated and remote community to the global
exchange of ideas and commerce. The Internet gives them a window
on the world and opens an opportunity for them to express
themselves to the world.
In Dawson Creek, British Columbia, Gordon Curries, working out
of his home office, beat out the competition from the big
international publishing houses to win the contract to produce
the official coffee table book on the Olympic Games in Atlanta.
In York, Prince Edward Island, Vesey's Seeds has used electronic
commerce to increase sales equivalent to opening a brand new
store with none of the overhead costs that would have been the
case otherwise.
Lanark County in Ontario, not far from Ottawa, has its model on
its website that speaks of the ability of the net to make
distance irrelevant. “Ten seconds to Tokyo, ten minutes to the
cottage, what a life” is its slogan.
[Translation]
Our policies, our priorities, and our investments have made an
impact on the lives of Canadians. But the government can make
investments in tomorrow because it has restored sanity to the
nation's finances today.
Canadians enabled us to achieve a balanced budget because they
were prepared to endure sacrifices, allowing us to consider how
to allocate surpluses rather than how to reduce deficits.
The Speech from the Throne continues to build on these
investments. It continues the same balanced approach that has
succeeded so well over the past six years. At the same time, it
commits this government to keeping the ratio of debt to GDP on a
permanent downward track, and it promises a multi-year plan for
tax reduction.
[English]
I would like to speak about an important objective of the throne
speech, creating a dynamic economy for the 21st century. Our
goal is as simple as branding Canada as one of the most forward
looking and innovative nations in the world.
When future generations look back at the turbulent years on the
cusp of the new millennium, they will see that some nations
thrived in the midst of change. They rallied to the new demands
of creating knowledge and applying it to new products and
processes. When those future generations look back at who
thrived in the transition to the new millennium, they will
conclude that Canada was the place to be.
The 1999 Speech from the Throne reinforces the government's
commitment to its long term strategy for building a more
innovative economy.
By deepening its action in five priority areas of its
microeconomic agenda: connectedness, innovation, marketplace
frameworks, trade and investment, the government continues its
drive to ensure that Canada is a winner in the globalized
knowledge based economy. It will make major investments in
productivity enhancing actions, productivity that will continue
to sustain one of the highest standards of living in the world
and improve the quality of life of all Canadians.
1545
[Translation]
With the Chairs in Research Excellence program, the government
has committed to work with the universities to create 1,200 new
21st century chairs in research excellence over the next three
years. We have set a goal of 2,000 of these new chairs in
research excellence. The chairs will enable Canadian
universities to continue to attract the best graduate and
post-doctoral students that can create real excitement around
research in Canadian universities.
Research will be collaborative. In the 21st century, research
will not be a solitary pursuit, conducted in the isolation of
separate ivory towers. It will involve team-building and
co-operation, domestically and internationally, so that
innovation moves through the continuum from pure research to new
products and processes. We will foster international
collaboration and networking by Canadian researchers in
universities and institutes, including the federal research
facilities.
In the area of technological development, we will encourage the
development of technologies in every phase of the innovation
continuum. This includes research collaboration in genomics,
climate change and advanced engineering, trade promotion for
biotechnology, information technology, and environmental
technologies.
[English]
On market development, we will help to find new markets for the
products of Canadian innovation and ingenuity. We will help to
ensure that new innovations developed by researchers in our
universities and government laboratories translate into new
products in the marketplace.
Foreign investment is investment that brings with it
technological innovation and improved access to the markets of
our trading partners. It is investment that helps make Canadian
industry more forward looking and more outward looking. We will
replicate the highly successful team Canada model of trade
initiatives and with our partners in business and the provincial
governments will create investment team Canada.
In the Speech from the Throne we stated our commitment to make
the investment community more aware of the unique opportunities
for investment and growth in Canada. We said: “We will
modernize legislation to make it easier for global corporations
to locate their headquarters in Canada”. Consistent with this
commitment, we will put forward amendments to the Canada Business
Corporations Act to ensure that it provides an operating
environment that can attract and retain the world's best firms.
[Translation]
In particular we will propose to reduce the current residency
requirement for the board of directors of companies incorporated
under the Canada Business Corporations Act from a majority to
25%.
This requirement will not apply to corporations where there are
ownership restrictions. We recognize that a modern framework
legislation must provide globally-oriented Canadian companies
with the flexibility to build their global markets, investments
and partnerships for the benefit of Canadians and jobs in
Canada.
I am very pleased that many initiatives in the Speech from the
Throne advance an agenda that has been a personal priority for
me in my six years as industry minister. I refer to the
Connecting Canadians initiative.
1550
We have already gone a long way to making Canada the most
connected nation in the world. Last March, Industry Canada's
SchoolNet program linked a three-student school in Pictou Island,
Nova Scotia, to the Internet.
[English]
With that, Canada achieved a visionary goal. Every Canadian
public school, first nations school and public library wanting to
be connected by the SchoolNet partnership has been brought on
line. Canada has won a race where speed was of the essence. It
is a race where the countries of the world that can train their
populations with Internet skills will enjoy the benefits of a
knowledge based economy. We are the first country in the world
to build such an extensive education network, a network that
connects these schools and their communities to the world.
In this session of parliament, we will push forward on the next
phase of our SchoolNet program. We will increase classroom
access to high speed Internet service. We will stimulate the
production of Canadian multimedia content and applications.
We will recruit up to 10,000 young people to help Canadians to
become better users of the Internet. These young people will
train those in their communities who want to learn how to go on
line and how to use the wealth of information that is available
to them in that medium. They will help small businesses set up
websites and use e-commerce. They will ensure the community
access sites have the expertise needed for the delivery of
government services over the net.
[Translation]
A fundamental goal of our Connectedness Agenda has been to make
government a model user of the information highway—to become
known around the world as the government most connected to its
citizens. We aim to achieve this by 2004.
We will do this, in part, through an Internet site that will
serve as a personal gateway for Canadians wanting government
information and community content. The Internet site will also
lead the world to Canadian businesses.
Finally, I do not want to leave the topic of our Connectedness
Agenda without emphasizing our commitment to finishing the work
we started in the last session to make Canada a centre of
excellence in e-commerce.
By the end of the year 2000, we intend to have the most
attractive policy environment for electronic commerce in the
world. We are building a policy framework that deals with:
encryption technology, public key infrastructure, consumer
protection, electronic signatures, equitable tax treatment of
virtual transactions, and standards to ensure the
interoperability of networks and applications.
[English]
These are the cornerstones of electronic commerce. The
government has reintroduced and the House has adopted the
personal information protection and electronic documents act. It
will protect personal and business information in the digital
world and recognize electronic signatures. It is part of our
vision to connect Canadians, to promote innovation in Canada and
to brand Canada as a world leader in the knowledge based economy.
The Prime Minister has challenged Canadian businesses,
especially small businesses, to take advantage of the
opportunities for electronic commerce. He has challenged all
sectors of Canada's economy to capture 5% of the world share of
e-commerce by 2003. That would equate to $200 billion in
business every year.
The government has looked at the opportunities of the future as
well as the challenges. We have identified the gaps that remain
in our ability to meet those demands. Through a comprehensive
agenda of policies and programs, we will fill those gaps. We
will fill them with targeted programs and at the same time
continue the prudent, balanced approach to making the best
possible use of taxpayers' money.
In this way we make Canada the place to be for all those who want
to be part of a dynamic, forward looking, knowledge based
economy.
1555
I want especially to commend the vision shown by the Prime
Minister in promoting an agenda that looks forward to how
Canadians will prosper in the next century. His vision has
ensured that the government's agenda is built on programs that
will promote science and technology, research and development,
and skills and knowledge. He has promoted an agenda for
innovation. With this vision, Canada will be the best place to
live in the next century.
[Translation]
Mr. Pierre Brien (Témiscamingue, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the minister
has given us a long argument on behalf of the positive role the
new technologies will play in the life of tomorrow. That is
very true.
Regardless of where we live, whether Latulipe, Sainte-Germaine,
Montreal, Toronto, or anywhere else, access to technologies like
the Internet brings us all closer together. We have access to a
great deal of information. In theory, this gives many people an
equal opportunity.
In reality, however, a problem is becoming more and more
obvious. I would like to ask the minister's opinion on it
Among other things, with telephone deregulation, which is not
without its drawbacks, we are beginning to realize that, within
a few years, the basic rate for service in areas serviced by
certain telephone companies will be close to $40, while it will
be half that in other areas.
Since access to the Internet requires a line and connection, is
the minister not concerned that people in some areas will have
to pay twice what others are paying to be hooked up to this
technology?
Municipalities and schools will be connected, certainly, but
more and more people want access at home as well. Some of them
will have access via their phone line, while others will have an
Internet line as part of their basic service. According to the
latest CRTC decision, Internet service will have to be part of
the basic service.
Is the minister concerned by the fact that the charges for basic
telephone services will be twice as high in some areas as in
others, depending on the company providing service? In my
region, basic service has risen to over $30, while it is around
the $20 mark in other regions. In two years, it will be $40 for
us, and $20 for them.
Is the minister not concerned about this trend? Does the
Minister of Industry intend to intervene, and not just to rely
on CRTC decisions in this area?
Hon. John Manley: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's question is a
good one.
First off, I will say that introducing competition into the
telecommunications sector has produced significant benefits.
There have been reductions in price, especially for long
distance calls. Our rates are now lower than those of the
United States, where there is a flurry of rate reductions.
Competition is so strong here in Canada that the rates for most
Canadians, and this has been the case for a long time as well in
Europe, are lower than in the United States. This is a factor
of competition between Canada and the United States that is so
favourable to us that we can look for investment.
Problems remain. In more rural or remote regions, the cost of
services is higher.
There are differences in prices because competition has lowered
them for long distance calls. We are in a price adjustment
period. We continue to have the greatest access to telephones
in the world, with an access rate of some 99%.
1600
So almost everyone has access to the telephone system. As
mentioned, the CRTC has decided to include in the definition of
basic service, access to the Intranet through a local line.
That means as well, digital service and single service. These
changes will come.
In situations like the one mentioned in Question Period, where
significant differences exist in a very small region, I advise
him to raise the matter with the CRTC. It has the power to
investigate and solve problems when it is satisfied that there
is an affordability problem or there are unjustified situations.
That is a short term response.
In the long term, we have to be the most connected country in
the world, and I totally agree that we will have to concern
ourselves with providing access for everyone, not only at home
but also, and immediately, in community access centres, schools
and libraries.
[English]
Mr. Inky Mark (Dauphin—Swan River, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
there is no doubt that the Internet is the future not only for
this country but for the world. Along with it comes a lot of
problems in people getting access.
I understand one of the biggest problems is the infrastructure
development for the Internet as well as for cable television.
Municipalities are encountering that right now with the private
sector at times having perhaps perceived or non-perceived
direction from CRTC to basically trespass or take access from
municipalities without actual municipal permission.
How does the minister see that problem and how could it be
resolved?
Hon. John Manley: Mr. Speaker, situations do arise
occasionally. Fortunately it is not that often when we consider
how much development is occurring at the present time in
essentially rewiring our urban areas with fibre optic facilities,
in many cases replacing the cables that were already there or
providing additional cable services, or, and this has sometimes
been even more problematic, providing the cells for wireless
service in prominent locations in enough places in a locality.
The policy that has been followed is one that tries to co-operate
as fully as possible with the municipalities, both in terms of
obtaining access and corresponding with local concerns with
respect to zoning and other considerations.
I think at the end of the day the necessity that every citizen
has to the availability of telecommunications services is one
that takes a high level of precedence. Where it is not possible
to reconcile, sometimes it is necessary that access be determined
by other means.
In a municipality if there is the need to put in significant
upgrades to services, I think it would be a very short period of
time before citizens became sufficiently demanding of those
services. Municipal governments as well would be anxious to find
ways to satisfy that.
It is also important to remember that the cost of those services
needs to be taken into account in our competitive position.
Probably every municipality in Canada is always looking for new
ways to earn some revenue, but it is important that we not build
on to the cost of telecommunications services too many additional
charges which then render our costs higher than those elsewhere,
not just between municipalities but between Canada and the U.S.
where that cost advantage is so important to attracting
investment.
1605
Mr. Rick Laliberte (Churchill River, NDP): Mr. Speaker,
this whole interconnectedness the Minister of Industry talks
about seems to be a deregulation allowing corporations to allow
Canadians to be interconnected. What is the purpose of it? We
can have a nice highway system, a nice telephone system and nice
computers, but if we are still unemployed, if we are still
without the basic necessities for our families, what is the whole
purpose of this interconnectedness?
In light of deregulation, I would like to pose another question.
If I were a fisherman in northern Saskatchewan wanting to sell
pickerel somewhere, I could easily find some buyer through
e-commerce, but the freshwater fish industry is regulated under
freshwater fish marketing rules. I could not go to
interprovincial or international trade because of the fish.
Maybe that is something the minister would like to comment on,
the fishing industry, interconnectedness and the purpose of this
whole exercise we are going through in Canada.
Hon. John Manley: Mr. Speaker, I do not know about
freshwater fish marketing, but I do know about fishermen in Nova
Scotia who went to the local community access site when there
were no fish for them to chase in the seas. They were able to
complete their high school education by having access by computer
in those situations to that learning, and doing it in such a way
that was more respectful of their self-esteem than asking them to
go into classrooms where perhaps they have children.
I have been able to see the situations in small communities
across Canada where all kinds of electronic commerce
opportunities are being pursued. I mention Gordon Currie from
Dawson Creek, British Columbia whose clients are not necessarily
in British Columbia. One is the Atlanta Olympic Committee.
Others are in Hong Kong, Europe and around the world.
This is all about the jobs of the future. We all share a
concern for the people who are challenged in finding jobs in the
current economy, who have perhaps worked in an industry that has
closed down. This is all about where the jobs are going to be in
the next 10 years and how we can create them. It is about how we
can give our people the skills and access to the technology they
will need to fill those jobs that are certainly going to be
created in a world economy. We hope to see them created in
Canada first and foremost.
[Translation]
Ms. Jocelyne Girard-Bujold (Jonquière, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I wish to
inform you that I will be sharing my time with my colleague, the
hon. member for Hochelaga—Maisonneuve.
I am pleased to take part in today's debate on the Address in
reply to the Speech from the Throne. As the Bloc Quebecois
environment critic, I will primarily focus on the promises made
by the federal government in that area and on the initiatives
that it should be taking to ensure sustainable development and
preserve nature for the benefit of future generations.
I want to preface my remarks with quotes from a document
published this year by the federal government, entitled
“Survey on the Importance of Nature to Canadians”.
This survey, which involved 86,000 Canadians aged 15 or over,
confirms the importance of natural resources, fauna and flora
for a vast majority of people. Indeed, it shows that, during the
1996 reference year, 29 million Canadians and Quebecers, or 85%
of the population, took part in nature-related activities, for a
total of 1.5 billion days. These nature-related activities
generated 191 million trips and expenses totalling $11 billion.
All these figures are telling me two important things. First,
Canadians and Quebecers are keen participants in nature-related
activities.
This is why we must preserve our fauna, forests and protected
areas, so that we can all continue to fully enjoy them.
1610
Second, these activities have a significant economic impact,
whether we are talking about outdoor activities, sports or the
tourism industry. Regardless of what those who believe ecology
is not compatible with economic development may think, the fact
is that our environment is a profitable asset that must be
preserved and developed.
Unfortunately, since it took office in 1993, the Liberal
government did very little to protect the environment. Its rare
initiatives were primarily designed to encroach on provincial
jurisdictions and strengthen the federal government's control
over natural resources rather than truly protect the environment.
The only good news is that the Liberal government seems to have
woken up, probably having realized that it should not head into
the next election empty-handed. But yes, let us take a quick
look at a few of the measures proposed in the throne speech.
The government promises to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
While the Liberals initially promised in their red book to
reduce emissions by 20% by 2005—that is right, 20% by the year
2005—we recently learned that greenhouse gases have instead gone
up by 20% since 1990.
That is why Bloc Quebecois members will continue to make every
possible effort to hold this government—because this is
essential—to the commitments it made in Kyoto, to set itself
specific goals and to take firm action to achieve them.
The government also intends to protect endangered species. We
will continue to denounce interference in provincial
jurisdictions and the lack of resources to monitor and protect
endangered species. Instead of setting national standards, the
federal government should provide funding—that is what it should
be doing—for preserving the habitats of these endangered species.
The most sensible proposal in the throne speech was the one to
clean up contaminated federal sites. Finally, a ray of hope.
The government has been promising to do this for years.
Finally, it seems prepared to go ahead. I am giving it the
benefit of the doubt, but I intend to keep a close eye on
developments.
This should be the priority of the federal government: to clean
up its own backyard before telling the provinces what to do with
theirs. This clean-up should also include sites contaminated by
the Canadian army, such as those in my riding of Jonquière.
As I see time is passing, I will deal with a very important
matter left out of the throne speech, that of genetically
modified organisms. The Canadian position on the matter of the
negotiation of the protocol on biodiversity is unacceptable.
Over 100 countries are prepared to sign an agreement to regulate
the labelling, import and export of genetically modified
organisms, primarily plants, and a liability clause for
companies regarding damage to the environment caused by their
products.
Unfortunately, Canada is part of a small group, with the United
States and four other countries, that is blocking these
negotiations because they are bent on putting exports ahead of
the health of Canadians and the security of their environment.
I will close my remarks with a look at the decision by Jean
Chrétien to permit the import into Canada of a fuel containing
plutonium, also known as MOX.
I held a press conference this morning to oppose the import of
this product from the United States and Russia, without public
consultation on the principle.
I pointed out as well the unresolved problems of storing
radioactive waste once the MOX has been used as a fuel in
nuclear plants.
1615
I can only deplore the attitude of the Minister of the
Environment in this matter. While he should be concerned about
clean sources of energy and sustainable development, the
minister has presented nuclear energy as an attractive solution
that would reduce greenhouse gases. The minister has even
advocated exporting Canadian nuclear technology abroad.
When I questioned him on the subject of his government's
proposal to import some one hundred tonnes of plutonium from
Russian and American nuclear arms, the minister had nothing to
say.
I hope he will quickly change his course in this matter, as in
others, and attend to his mandate as Minister of the
Environment. For this and a number of other reasons, I must
tell the government it is time to act on the environment. It
must do so to give future generations a safe environment.
[English]
Mr. Inky Mark (Dauphin—Swan River, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
I listened with interest to the member's comments on safeguarding
the environment.
We know that the old bill, Bill C-48, currently called Bill C-8,
the act respecting marine conservation areas, will be coming back
to the House at report stage hopefully by the end of this month.
I see that the Bloc has tabled many amendments to delete all the
clauses in that bill.
Reform believes in a very balanced approach to protecting our
environment. We believe in sustainability when areas are to be
designated for conservation or protection.
I have a question for the Bloc member. What is the Bloc policy
on sustainable development regarding the environment?
[Translation]
Ms. Jocelyne Girard-Bujold: Mr. Speaker, I thank
the hon. Reform member for his question.
For those of us in the Bloc Quebecois, everything related to the
environment is very important as far as sustainable development
is concerned, because it is important to pass a healthy
environment on to future generations.
Since 1993, this Liberal government has made huge cuts in
funding to the Department of the Environment. One need only
think of Bill C-32, which was passed during the last parliament.
We will recall the general opposition there was to that bill.
The government pushed it through with a gag order.
We submit that it is important for everyone, the general public
and all parliamentarians, to be involved in everything that
affects the environment. These are the priorities I defend, and
shall always defend, on behalf of the Bloc Quebecois.
Mr. Réal Ménard (Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, BQ): It is always a
pleasure, Mr. Speaker, to take the floor when you are in the
chair.
I would like to express our great disappointment with this
throne speech. I believe it can be characterized quite simply
as a throne speech offering little in the way of concrete
solutions to people's concerns. It is the mark of a government
that is coming to the end of its time.
I invite the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs to reflect on
this, and I trust that he will have some questions to ask me at
the end of my speech, because I am always pleased to exchange
views with him. I invite him to remember how different things
would be in this House if the Bloc Quebecois were not here to
promote the legitimate interests of Quebec.
If we were not here, the government would be left to its own
device, with its rather monolithic view of Quebec. I am taking
this opportunity to tell you that we will not let the government
interfere in the referendum debate.
I am well aware that, if it were up to the Minister of
Intergovernmental Affairs, given his penchant for controversy—and
I believe he will allow me to say this—he would want to legislate
here, in this parliament, on the referendum question, even
though, as we all know, Quebec already has a referendum act. The
decision will be made in a democratic fashion.
1620
Guess what percentage of Quebecers took part in the 1995
referendum? Some 93.5%. This compares favourably to the figures
obtained where voting is compulsory.
I am asking the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs to calm
down a little, to control himself, to not add fuel to the fire
and to accept that this issue will be dealt with by the National
Assembly and by Quebecers, who will have to make a choice.
Incidentally—and this will be of interest to my friend, the
Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs—this past weekend I
attended a congress with the rank and file in my riding of
Hochelaga—Maisonneuve. Whenever my constituents were given the
opportunity to vote for sovereignty, they did so in very
interesting numbers.
I am not an illegitimate son of sovereignty. I am a natural son
of sovereignty, considering that every time the people in my
riding of Hochelaga—Maisonneuve had an opportunity to vote for
sovereignty, they did so. In fact, the minister know who the
first Parti Quebecois member elected at the National Assembly
was. We will recall fondly that it was Robert Burns, who now
sits on the bench.
I want to tell the House about a victory for democracy that took
place in Hochelaga—Maisonneuve. I put the following idea, which
will interest the minister, to those attending the congress. In
the coming days, I would like to campaign to have the Commission
des institutions convene a constituent assembly with a four-fold
mandate.
First, I would like Quebecers to be consulted about the wording
of the next referendum question. Naturally, it would still be
up to the National Assembly to decide whether or not to adopt
it, but it would be interesting for Quebecers to be consulted.
This would prevent the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and
all the other ministers in this cabinet from saying that the
question is not legitimate, because it would be based on what
people wanted.
Second, I would like a constituent assembly to look into what
could be called “new democratic practices”. In a sovereign
Quebec—it should not be long now—what kind of ballot do we want?
How can we ensure that decision-making is a truer reflection of
representation? These are questions that could be raised in the
context of a constituent assembly.
Third—and I know that the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs
will be interested in this as well—we must give some thought to a
question facing modern nations. This is not something limited
to Quebec or Canada. It is a question that I would say all
modern nations must consider. How are we to define “citizen” as
a concept? In Quebec, the view which I think is most widely
held right now is that, in a sovereign Quebec, citizenship will
be defined in relation to participation in a shared public
culture.
This shared public culture has a number of components. First,
of course, it must be rooted in French. The language of
democratic participation in a sovereign Quebec will of course be
French. Naturally, we hope that there will be wide
participation in democratic life and in institutions. We also
hope to benefit from the contribution of other communities in a
context of genuine collaboration and mutual dialogue.
A constituent assembly could therefore make proposals for the
wording of the referendum question, examine the issue of new
democratic practices, and consider the concept of citizenship by
consulting people about participation in institutions.
I myself spent a few days in the United States and was trained
by former congressman Kennedy, who has since left political
life—but I confess I had nothing to do with it—and he explained
very clearly to me the benefits of a law that, in the end,
permits American legislators to measure the involvement of banks
in poor communities.
I must say, to my great satisfaction, that this proposal was
greeted with barely contained enthusiasm. It will now make its
way through the regional bodies to the Bloc Quebecois Year 2000
congress. I would very much like the Minister of
Intergovernmental Affairs to agree to exchange views with me on
these matters.
Now, returning to the Speech from the Throne, although I do not
believe I have ever strayed away from it totally, finally, as
far as the government's constitutional strategy is concerned, we
can see an imprecise outline of the underlying agenda of the
Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.
1625
I would once again caution him against the desire to legislate
here, in this parliament, on a matter that does not concern him
in the least. Moreover, I am told that the minister—a likeable
man, as is common knowledge—is a man becoming increasingly the
only one on side with his strategy. I trust that we will have
the opportunity to discuss this together, he and I.
I would have liked to have seen some concrete measures contained
in this throne speech, lacklustre as it is, with no bite, no
relief, a total lack of imagination.
What would prevent the government from including in the Human
Rights Act—not in the Charter, since this would require an
amending formula, as we know—social condition as a forbidden
grounds for discrimination?
Seven provinces already have such a thing in their legislation
or in their human rights codes, and it would be a formidable
weapon in the battle against poverty. We are very well aware
that social condition refers to people's degree of wealth, their
position in society, their place in the means of production.
What would have prevented the government from passing
legislation, as the United States did in 1977, on community
reinvestment by the banks?
The Americans have what they call the Community Reinvestment
Act. I myself spent a few days in the U.S. and was instructed by
former congressman Kennedy who, since then, has left politics—
and I had nothing to do with that—and who explained to me in
very practical terms the benefits from this Act, which basically
allows American lawmakers to measure the banks' involvement in
disadvantaged communities.
I will now focus on another issue, namely tainted blood. This
is a stigma, a matter of shame for all parliamentarians. So
long as the government does not correct the situation, there
will be a pall over all of the House of Commons. The government
ought to correct the situation, and I am referring, naturally,
to the Krever commission.
This is a scandal, a real catastrophe.
In the early 1990s, Canadian blood supplies were contaminated
for all sorts of reasons. It is nevertheless true that, in its
report—a report not prepared by the Bloc Quebecois, a report by a
royal commission of inquiry that cost taxpayers millions of
dollars and needed to be called—the Krever commission called for
a no fault compensation system. That means that everyone
contaminated either through a transfusion or through the use of
blood products would be compensated.
I would like everyone to stay, but acknowledge that is
impossible. I know that those who must leave always do so out
of necessity. I would have liked a debate with the minister,
but that is not possible. We will have it in other forums.
I think he may be a bit afraid of a confrontation with me, but
that is part of parliamentary life.
I close by saying that I wished the Krever commission had been
heard and that we were establishing a compensation plan without
regard to the fault of those contaminated before 1986 as for
those contaminated before 1990. It is a matter of humanitarian
consideration. Quebec and Ontario have already compensated
these categories. The government is turning a deaf year, and I
think it is shameful it is taking such an attitude.
Mr. René Canuel (Matapédia—Matane, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I
congratulate the hon. member for Hochelaga—Maisonneuve for his
fiery speech. Even the minister he called upon was listening
carefully.
1630
Usually, we cannot tell. The minister appears not to be
listening. This time, however, he paid great attention to the
message delivered by my colleague.
I would like to ask a question to my colleague, a very
thoughtful man who is very sensitive to the plight of the
poorest of the poor in our society. I too work with the
disadvantaged and the poor in my riding of Matapédia—Matane.
Since my riding is in a remote region, communications are not so
good. Major companies and multinationals are reluctant to come
to my riding, if only because the airport is located in Mont-Joli
and it takes close to one hour to get to the airport from my
home.
Given the transportation services available, this is already a
problem.
I clearly recall the case of a local plant. The owners said “We
are leaving the plant in Quebec City, because if we move it
further east, it will mean an additional half-hour drive, because
there is no air service, and half an hour is a long time for
business people”.
The hon. member talked about a sovereign Quebec, and I know that
he has given a great deal of thought to this issue. How could we
be a little more sensitive to the plight of the poor and remote
areas? How could we treat them better, just as the people in
Montreal, Quebec City or the Abitibi region are treated?
Mr. Réal Ménard: Mr. Speaker, the question makes a lot of sense
and deals with sensitivity, as members will have realized.
My colleague began with a reference to our friend the Minister
of Intergovernmental Affairs, who is plagued by constitutional
matters. If he took the trouble to listen more closely to the
opposition parties, I think he would see a certain light that is
sadly lacking in his caucus. That having been said, on the issue
of poverty, I think that it involves all parliamentarians.
Why do we want to become sovereign? Because we are a nation,
but we are also a nation that believes strongly in social
justice. Right now, even the best governments that have sat in
the National Assembly have been unable to implement a genuine
policy of resource distribution and full employment.
They have been unable to do so because monetary policy is
decided in Ottawa. The major levers for regulating the labour
market are in the hands of the Minister of Finance, and the
Government of Quebec has tools that are very secondary but that
make dialogue between the parties impossible.
Members are well aware that the countries—I am thinking of Sweden
and Norway—that have come close to achieving full employment have
been successful in getting employers, union representatives,
representatives of community groups, educators and, of course,
economic decision makers to sit down together, to agree on a
certain number of objectives, and to implement them. In a
federal system such as ours, this is not possible.
I will give an example.
It is well known that the federal government has turned around
and deprived the provinces of close to $11 billion in transfer
payments. Do members think that this began with a dialogue and
that the provinces were involved in these macroeconomic
decisions? Of course not. This was authority speaking. It
shows that federalism is incompatible with the full employment
policies that Quebec will implement when it gains control of all
these levers as a sovereign state.
[English]
Mr. John Godfrey (Don Valley West, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I
will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Peterborough.
In a sense my remarks directly relate to what was just said.
[Translation]
My speech will deal mainly with early childhood, and the
challenge of finding the means to work along with the provinces.
I believe we can make considerable progress together.
[English]
How can we as governments, federal, provincial and territorial,
work together with communities to support children and their
families, particularly very young children, so that the
development of those children can be as good as we can
collectively make it? That is my subject.
1635
The reason I have chosen that subject, in the context of the
Speech from the Throne, is something which the Prime Minister
said in his response to the Speech from the Throne. He said
“Together with the provinces we have begun to put in place the
national children's agenda to improve supports for families and
children. I believe this work has to be accelerated. So do
provincial premiers. We must move as quickly as possible from
talk to action. Today I challenge all governments to have in
place by December 2000 a federal-provincial agreement consistent
with the social union framework to strengthen supports for early
childhood development, an agreement on principles and objectives
on measuring outcomes and reporting to Canadians and an agreement
on a five year timetable for increased federal and provincial
funding to achieve our shared objectives”.
The challenge is how we can do such a deal. How can we work
with the other governments in the country to do the right deal
and not just any deal for children? How can we do it in about 14
months? How can we do it by December 2000?
I think the only way we can conceive of a deal is to think of it
as sort of a national project for all of our children.
We have a number of elements of success in place already. The
first is perhaps the whole question of knowledge. What do we
know about optimum developmental paths for all children,
particularly those in the zero to six population? As the finance
minister said yesterday in his annual economic update, quoting
Dr. Fraser Mustard, “There is powerful new evidence from
neuroscience that the early years of development, from conception
to age six, particularly for the first three years, set the base
for competence and coping skills that will affect learning,
behaviour and health throughout life”.
The science also tells us that an additional factor for success
is what we do at the community level. It is not simply a
question of socioeconomic status, it is what happens at the level
where we all live and breath, the level of the neighbourhood.
Social cohesion is a positive factor which goes beyond income in
explaining why some kids do better than others. There was a
recent article in the Globe and Mail on Port Colborne,
Ontario which talked about “wovenness” as being the magic, the
secret which takes us beyond income into good results for kids.
The first asset that we can bring to the table is the knowledge
base which is growing exponentially in this area. The second is
that the provinces are increasingly on side. It was
extraordinary to hear the recent Speech from the Throne from
Ontario in which the lieutenant governor said these words on
behalf of her government:
Your government believes that, to realize their full potential,
children must get off to the best possible start in life. The
most important period of development is the three years
immediately following birth. That is why it is so important to
nurture and support children's development from the moment they
are born.
Building on the pioneering work of world renowned expert Dr.
Fraser Mustard and child advocate the Hon. Margaret McCain, the
government is committed to a bold new initiative that ultimately
will extend early development opportunities to every child and
parent in Ontario. Recently announced demonstration projects are
merely the beginning. Your government is determined to remain
the national leader in early child development.
That is the Government of Ontario. It is surprising perhaps to
some, considering its other social policies, but that is a great
one.
We know that in British Columbia the Hon. Moe Sihota recently
announced a major new initiative in the area of child care and
invited federal participation once again.
[Translation]
We are very familiar with the case of Quebec, which made a
societal promise to its children, particularly its very young
ones, with its $5-a-day child care centres. They are a kind of
gold standard for the rest of the country. They are the summit
we are all striving to reach, to use the vocabulary of social
union.
[English]
We can find allies among the provinces across the country.
In a meeting held in Kananaskis with the social services
ministers as recently as October 26, ministers said the
following:
Ministers also reviewed joint work currently under way in both
social services and health sectors on early childhood
development, including possible areas where governments can work
together. Ministers agreed that this work should form the basis
for responding to the federal government's invitation in the
Speech from the Throne to work together in this area. They
committed to working with federal, provincial, and territorial
ministers of health to move forward as quickly as possible on
early childhood development.
1640
The next day their counterparts, the ministers who constitute
the provincial-territorial council on social policy renewal, made
the same point:
Ministers stressed the urgent need for action on children's
issues, building on the leadership taken by provinces and
territories and the co-operative work with the federal
government. Ministers emphasized the need to move forward on the
national children's agenda.
Now seems to be the time for us all to go forward, as we have
the provinces enthusiastically responding to the Speech from the
Throne.
Of all the assets we can bring to the table, including our own
efforts, the knowledge base and the provinces, the greatest
assets surely are the communities themselves. Communities are
where we live and breathe. Communities are where our children
develop through schools, through play contacts, through all of
the things which make life worth living in our private lives.
I find this the most exciting part. This morning I was at a
breakfast meeting in Ottawa-Carleton with the Success by Six
group, an extraordinary alliance spearheaded by the
Ottawa-Carleton Board of Education and the United Way, bringing
together 85 different entities, agencies, the voluntary sector
and government departments, to work together to improve outcomes
for the zero to six population. The spirit of enterprise and
excitement in the room of working together to produce a kind of
seamless web of services so that all children and their parents
will be given optimum support was tremendous. It was heartening.
We have in the nation's capital a demonstration project, one
chosen by the Ontario government as well.
Last week I was in Toronto with a similar group, called the
Early Years Action Group, from North York. It is happening
across the country. In Vancouver we can find Opportunities for
Youth. In Montreal we have Un Deux Trois Go. In other words, we
have a huge resource base.
We have allies like the United Way of Canada, which we are aware
of this month as its flags are fluttering across Canada to remind
us of the annual campaign. This network covers 87% of Canada.
There is a huge sector of civil society that wants to participate
in the national children's agenda.
What do we need to do? We need a deal which is something like
the Canada Health Act. The Prime Minister talks of objectives
and principles. We also need a deal which deals with outcomes.
The Prime Minister talks of outcomes and accountability in public
reporting. We need a deal which has money. The money has to
come in the form of an early childhood development services fund,
with resources coming from the provinces and the federal
government, accessed by communities after they have determined
what they need to do the right job for kids from birth to six, so
that those children will be ready to learn and ready for life by
the time they enter the school system.
That is what we need to do. It means that we have to sign on a
group of provinces. It means that we have to see working
examples in the next 12 months of how communities can work
together, such as they are doing in Ottawa-Carleton and in
Ontario in general.
We need a plan which focuses on all children and, as Minister
Marland of Ontario said the other day, a plan which is
affordable, available and accessible to all children.
We have a huge task to complete this part of the promise of the
Speech from the Throne. It will involve all of us in all of our
communities doing our best to work with the provincial
governments, the federal government, communities and the
voluntary sector to make this dream of a national project of
making all of Canada's children as ready to learn as they
possibly can be by the time they enter school a reality.
Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I
listened with great interest to the remarks of the member for Don
Valley West. I know of his personal commitment to this area.
1645
I would like to recognize the member's share in the development
of the points in the Speech from the Throne which we now think of
as the children's agenda. We just heard that he has a
fundamental understanding of the area, as well as an
understanding as a member of parliament on what needs to be done
to push things of this sort through.
I thought it would be interesting if the member could give us
some sense of the work and the proposals of the subcommittee
dealing with the children's agenda and youth at risk which he
chaired in the previous parliament. Could he give some sense of
that? Also, could he give us his thoughts on how that
subcommittee might proceed, or is it going to proceed? What is
it likely to do between now and the budget when we hope that many
of the things in the Speech from the Throne will become engraved
in stone?
Mr. John Godfrey: Mr. Speaker, the subcommittee to which
the member referred is a subcommittee of the HRD committee. It
is the subcommittee on children and youth at risk. So far we
have only been able to produce an interim report.
First it is important to say that we are an all-party committee
populated by real supporters of children. It has gone beyond
partisanship. We are really working together on a common
purpose.
What we have tried to do is to understand both risk factors for
children, but also what are the best developmental pathways; what
can we know from the science base about what works and how we can
make sure that that knowledge gets across the country. The task
for us between now and the budget, should our committee be
reconstituted by the all seeing wisdom of the chairman of the
human resources development committee, is to focus on the
unfinished business.
We must determine what it is that we can do by way of
encouragement and demonstration to show how communities are
already doing this and that this is not an abstract reality.
There is a huge amount of enthusiasm across Canada for this. The
committee can highlight the successes and give us heart so that
we may make national what we have been doing so successfully in
communities across Canada.
Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am
very pleased to speak in the debate on the Speech from the
Throne. I am very proud to have the opportunity to speak on
behalf of the people of the Peterborough riding and the city as
well as our country. It is a great honour. Each time this
occurs it makes me proud. I work hard so that my constituents
will be equally proud of me.
The Speech from the Throne is being described as one which sets
out the government's children's agenda. We assume that we are
now moving toward a budget based on the Speech from the Throne
which is going to be focused on children.
I would like to take a different approach from that of my
colleague from Don Valley West who just spoke.
It is true that there was a huge emphasis on children in the
Speech from the Throne. It is also true that this was not
sudden. It was not something that was pulled out of a hat. It
is something that has been developing. We heard one aspect on
the work of the subcommittee of human resources development. It
is something that has been going on since the Liberal government
was elected in 1993.
I was particularly impressed by something when we began those
three years of cuts, those horrific years when all Canadians paid
the price of the staggering $42 billion deficit that we inherited
from previous governments. One of the things I remember in that
first year of the cuts was that in my riding, when money was
being taken out of the system in great quantities, new money
appeared for prenatal and postnatal care.
There was new money to support centres in which parents could
learn to nurture their children in the best possible way. Even in
those dark years the foundations for this Speech from the Throne
and for what I hope will appear in the budget were already being
laid.
1650
I have a document which summarizes the Speech from the Throne. I
will try to give some of the context for the so-called children's
agenda. The context includes the fact that we have to consider
parents and families before children are conceived and born. I
have mentioned prenatal care and some of those aspects which we
have been doing. It is mentioned again in the Speech from the
Throne.
Then we have to think of the children themselves, which my
colleague was just talking about. My colleague said in great
detail that we have to work with the provinces and there are
signs that the provinces are going to work with us.
We are going to make a third investment in the national child
benefit. There are now billions of dollars in the national child
benefit. These funds go directly to children and their families.
My only regret is that in Ontario the provincial government
chose to take an equivalent amount away from those families on
social assistance. For whatever reason, I do not know. It
appears to think there is some stigma for families on social
assistance. I do not know how children carry stigma so I regret
that.
The national child benefit is helping children and families
directly. The government says that there will be further tax
relief for children and families.
On the matter of parental leave, there is a great increase in
leave for parents, a doubling of it, which I strongly support.
This will help parents, and by that I mean quite literally
mothers and fathers, to nurture their children. Parental leave
is not for the parents, it is for the children.
It is my hope that as that provision is brought in there will be
very real help, support and advice for smaller businesses that
have to adjust to this new regime. I support it strongly but I
recognize that tiny businesses have difficulty adjusting to
changes of this type. I hope when the time comes to deal with
that, there will be help for those small businesses. There are
other things as well, such as making the federal government a
workplace that is more family friendly.
Those are all for children. We have to think of children before
they are born, after they are born and in their very early years
as we were discussing. However, we cannot leave it at that. The
Speech from the Throne also considers children as they become
young adults, youth, teenagers and so on.
In this agenda there is a program to hire youth to staff the
community Internet access sites across the country. There is the
launch of exchanges Canada. Every year over 100,000 young
Canadians will have a chance to move around the country. Many of
us remember Katimavik with great fondness. It is great to think
of the children mentioned in this agenda growing up and having
this opportunity.
A very interesting program gives younger Canadians from the age
of 13 an opportunity to produce their first works using
traditional and new technologies in the arts, cultural, digital
and similar industries. What a wonderful thing. Then there is a
plan to give tens of thousands of young Canadian volunteers the
opportunity to work in literacy programs.
There are prenatal children, infants and then youth. Now we go
to when children are a little older. The government has already
committed to the Canadian education savings grants. They are
like RRSPs. Families can buy RESPs. This puts tax-free money
aside to support the education of their young people. When they
put that money aside, in addition they get a 20% grant up to a
value of $2,000. That is already there for children as they are
growing up.
Families that are looking after their infants can be preparing
for their children to go to college or university later on.
1655
There are a number of other programs of that type, particularly
the Canadian millennium scholarship fund. This is a scholarship
fund for well qualified but needy students, if that is the right
expression, students who need the support. They will be
academically good students who need financial support.
We usually say 100,000 students a year but we tend to forget
that the foundation is set up in such a way that it will be
100,000 students a year for 10 years. One million Canadian
students. These students are infants now and they will be cared
for even better through the children's agenda. One million
students will have an opportunity to receive those scholarships
to help them get an education so they can lead creative and
productive lives.
We want to go even further than students in college and
university. We started with children at the prenatal stage.
The government in the Speech from the Throne has committed to
increasing the funding for the granting councils. Those are the
councils which fund social science research, natural science
research, medical research. They are the councils which support
the arts and so on. Those are the ones which allow our most
creative people to fulfil themselves so they can make Canada a
much better place. When today's infants grow up, they will be in
a much richer society.
I mentioned the Medical Research Council. In the same vein, the
Speech from the Throne said that we will table legislation to
fund the Canadian institutes for health research. This is going
to be an extraordinary development for the Medical Research
Council which supports medical research now. It will link the
Medical Research Council to research institutes and institutions,
to practising hospitals all across the country, to local cancer
societies like the one in Peterborough, to community colleges
like Sir Sandford Fleming College in Peterborough which have
programs to look after the elderly and conduct research. The new
Canadian institutes for health research will help every Canadian
in the whole country to become healthier.
It has been a great pleasure for me to speak in this throne
speech debate. I look forward to the budget which as we all know
is necessary to put these wonderful policies into effect.
Mrs. Marlene Jennings (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to my hon.
colleague as he discussed the throne speech. In particular, I
found interesting the issue of the Canadian institutes for health
research. It is a new idea to me. Can the hon. member explain
what exactly these institutes will be doing and how that ties in
with a children's agenda?
Mr. Peter Adams: Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for
her question. I would have to say that had I been giving a
different speech, this is one of the most significant
developments not only in research, but in the application of
research results in Canada in recent years.
This is a confederation. The strength of a confederation is
that all the different parts of it have a chance to be creative.
If one lives in Nova Scotia, one can be creative within the Nova
Scotian context. If one lives in Alberta, one can be creative
within the Alberta context. In addition, because it is a
confederation, one can be creative at the national level. One
can take an idea in Nova Scotia or an idea in Quebec and bring it
up to the national level and then to the international level.
1700
The danger of confederation as far as research is concerned is
that if we are not careful we will have lots and lots of people
all doing their own thing, all reinventing the wheel and so on,
without this co-ordination.
The Canadian institutes for health research will be linked
centres all the way across the country that will draw on the
expertise of their regions and feed it in to the national scene
so that when there is a good idea somewhere it will not be lost.
By the way, it will not simply be lost in the morass of
information that exists in our world. Nor will it be lost by
someone going to the United States or some other jurisdiction. It
will capture that idea and bring it forward to the benefit of all
Canadians.
The federal government has always been the main engine of
medical research, but there has always been other research. All
sorts of hospitals, institutes and organizations are doing
research of some sort. The purpose of this new system of
Canadian institutes for health is to capture all that creativity
to the benefit of all Canadians and, I do not think it is
immodest, to the benefit of the health of everyone on the globe.
I thank my colleague for her question.
Hon. Lorne Nystrom (Regina—Qu'Appelle, NDP): Mr.
Speaker, I have a question for my friend from Peterborough about
a very important growing problem in the country, the issue of
homelessness.
The throne speech talked about a general vision of the country
but there is no reference to homelessness. Even more important,
yesterday I was in London, Ontario, for the financial statement
and fiscal update of the minister of finance. When I looked
through that statement I did not see any reference whatsoever to
homelessness. I am wondering whether or not this worries the
hon. member.
Just the other night I was walking toward the Congress Centre
and there were some 1,400 Liberals at a fundraiser. I think it
cost $350 a plate. As I was walking with a certain friend who
shall be unidentified, a couple of homeless guys were standing
outside asking for money. It just struck me as rather ironic
that this friend of mine, a very distinguished member of the
House, would be stopped by these two homeless people. They knew
who was the Prime Minister. They called out my name and things
of that sort. I did not have the heart to tell them that the
Prime Minister was having a fundraiser at the Congress Centre,
because it cost $350 each to get in.
It struck me as strange, when we have a $10 billion surplus for
this coming fiscal year and around $100 billion accumulating over
the next five years, that in the 45 minute speech yesterday by
the Minister of Finance there was not even a reference to
homelessness.
I am wondering whether the member across the way shares my
concern that the Minister of Finance is forgetting about a very
important growing social problem, not only in my province but in
his as well.
Mr. Peter Adams: Mr. Speaker, I share the concern of my
colleague from the NDP about this matter, but I do not share his
concern about the interest of the government in it.
I can give a couple of examples from my own riding. In
Peterborough the federal government funded the forum on
homelessness attended by one of my friend's colleagues. That
forum and the study associated with it identified the nature of
homelessness very seriously in a rural small town environment as
distinct from some of the larger urban communities.
Having identified those problems moneys have started to flow to
solve them. For example, there is in Peterborough now a housing
resource centre which helps people, young people, older people,
and very old people in some cases, search more effectively for a
home. The federal government was able to work with the county
and the city to deal with that.
Even more recently we had a meeting with representatives of
Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, one of the federal
government's main arms in this regard. Like my colleague I would
urge the government to give Canada Mortgage and Housing
Corporation more resources in the social housing area.
Nevertheless, in my riding two weeks ago CMHC was able to fund a
substantial project, a refuge for homeless women.
1705
I agree that homelessness is a serious problem. It is my sense,
and I hope it proceeds very quickly, that the federal government
is beginning to tackle these problems. I thank my colleague for
his question.
Mr. Rick Laliberte (Churchill River, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I
would like to start my comments on the throne speech delivered on
October 12 in my first language.
[Editor's Note: Member spoke Cree]
[English]
The throne speech is entitled “Building a Higher Quality of
Life for All Canadians”. My understanding is that we are trying
to provide a better quality of life in the future for our
children. A large part of the throne speech is directed to
children and the agenda of the government to improve the quality
of life of children to ensure they have a good foothold in the
new millennium, to ensure they have an economic future, an
educational future and are wealthy, healthy Canadians.
I challenge the government not to care only about certain
sectors of the population. It should truly live up to its
promise that all Canadians will have the same opportunity
regardless of where they live.
We can look at the interconnectedness which the Minister of
Industry highlighted. Internet connection will be a major part
of Canadian development in a very short time. However, small
communities in my riding cannot necessarily make a career or a
livelihood by bringing Internet into their homes. We live in
the middle of the forest. We live in the middle of abundant
resources. This is the direction we should be working toward. We
should be training our people to be engineers so that they can
make master plans of the resources in those regions.
When Canadians were told to wait a month until the House of
Commons returned to listen to a throne speech in October we
thought of a grand vision. I am trying to make the best of the
throne speech. I understand that our children and their journey
are a major part of it.
[Editor's Note: Member spoke Cree]
[English]
We must afford our children the wisdom of our elders so that
they have the strength of their families and are connected with
their communities. Then children can stand with pride knowing
who they are and where they are going. They can figure out what
is right and what is wrong in life and can go forward with that
knowledge.
In the throne speech a promise was given to a certain group of
elders that should be truly recognized, our veterans. As we are
close to Remembrance Day I wanted to raise this issue. We talk
about merchant marines, the mariners who supplied our troops
abroad with many provisions in times of war. These people were
not truly recognized in an honourable way and have been asking to
be treated equally.
The other veterans I would like to speak about at this time are
aboriginal veterans. Aboriginal veterans in some cases
disenfranchised themselves from their treaty status to fight for
peace in the world. Upon returning home other veterans were
afforded economic development opportunities and land grants, but
these grants and opportunities were not given to aboriginal
veterans. They were not treated equally. I ask my colleagues in
the House on the government side to look at treating aboriginal
veterans fairly and equally.
1710
As a child grows education is crucial in this day and age. There
are young pages in the House of Commons who are seeking knowledge
and gaining life experiences just by being here. That is what I
challenge other youth to do as well. They should leave the
schools, move around Canada and experience life elsewhere.
The throne speech challenges all of us to experience the beauty
of Canadian geography, history and people. I challenge people in
Quebec to go to Saskatchewan and to the north. I challenge
people in British Columbia and the prairies to go to downtown
Toronto to see what life is like in a big metropolitan centre. I
challenge the Blue Jays to play rubberball with children in La
Loche. I challenge the Edmonton Oilers to play street hockey
with homeless people in downtown Winnipeg.
We should enjoy each other's lives and the gifts that we have.
Let us not put ourselves on a higher pedestal. We are all
Canadians. We all live on the same beautiful land. Just because
some people have a different paycheque than others, it does not
afford them a different status.
I learned about the economy in grade 12 economics. Money can
circulate as many times as it can in one region and afford a
certain amount of value. If the Canadian dollar is to retain its
value in world markets, we have to circulate the Canadian dollar
as many times as we can in Canada before it leaves the country. I
also extend this advice to certain regions.
I look at my region and the people of Churchill River. We have
very few supermarkets. We have very few butcher shops. We do
not have an abundance of hardware stores. All our shopping and
our economy are bound to the southern urban centres of Saskatoon,
Prince Alberta, North Battleford and Meadow Lake. That is the sad
place we are reaching in rural Canada. Farm communities are
evaporating as we speak. Credit unions, schools and hospitals
have been dismantled because the community no longer functions.
That is the sad fact in rural and regional Canada.
The urban centres cannot demand all the economy and strength of
the country. We have to share from coast to coast to coast. We
cannot all be Torontonians, Montrealers, or people of Regina and
Vancouver. It is not the dream of all Canadians to live in a
huge city in suburban Canada. I ask members to imagine living in
the north, living in the wilderness. Maybe with a satellite dish
they could make billion dollar deals right there with e-commerce,
as the industry minister said. One does not have to be in a city
to do this. It could be done from one's home in Pierceland, La
Ronge or Cold Lake.
I challenge Canadians to treat each other with respect. I have
seen an abundance of ill feelings among certain sectors and
peoples in the country which just does not flow with the Canadian
vision. We have founded a nation where people from all over the
world have found a home. I say a home because that is basically
what we are talking about. The House of Commons is a home for
Canada.
We must not forget that for generations aboriginal people have
held this country and land together, living in harmony with its
nature and its unique gifts and challenges in a respectful way.
That is the challenge I extend to everyone. Let us live in that
essence into the new millennium. Let us live together. Let us
welcome people who find refuge here perhaps because of hard times
in other parts of the world. We have a lot to offer. Let us not
point them to the urban slums of our country. Let us share the
beauty of our villages, hamlets and little settlements of 15
people that are so proud.
In my riding there is a community that built its own school out
of logs. One could not see a prouder student attending a school
than those whose school was built by their aunts and uncles,
mothers and fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers.
Now we have the vision that a technologically innovative future
is a school that is interconnected. Could one of our
grandparents connect a computer? No. It is our 12 and 15 year
olds that connect the Apples and IBMs together, but we still have
to put the two generations together. They cannot travel on
different journeys. We have to envision them living in harmony
together.
1715
This opportunity to speak gives me the opportunity to thank the
people I represent. As I mentioned, this seat belongs to the
people of Churchill River. They are the ones who empower me to
say these words. That is the story I wish to tell.
I come from a region that is called a boreal forest. It is
basically in the middle of the bush.
[Editor's Note: Member spoke Cree]
[English]
These are the people of the woods.
All the highways in the provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan,
British Columbia and Manitoba go north and south. The
infrastructure is not the same in the north. The north is
basically a colony to the south. Canadians have to stop treating
the north like a food supply, a wood supply and a mineral supply.
We have also at one time provided Britain with all the furs they
needed. All the beavers which came from the north were sent over
there. We cannot do that anymore. We must be given due respect.
We make our living in the north and envision our people and our
children growing up in the north and sharing with the rest of the
world. It cannot be done without us.
There is no master plan for infrastructure in northern
development. We see logging roads and mining roads but when are
the communities going to be connected? When are the dots going
to be connected to the northern villages? We used to travel
along the river east and west, but our highways are all north and
south. These roads do not connect our communities at all.
For many years we have had major discussions on national parks.
I have one in my riding. I believe six future parks are being
committed for ecological integrity, national identity and for
preservation and conservation. These parks are targeted for the
boreal forest. However, we have to talk with the community
members, the people who make their living off the land. These
people cannot be relocated.
CMHC has brought in housing programs to urbanize northerners.
Northern trappers and hunters have never been agrarian people. We
have never lived in a commune for 24 hours a day, 365 days a
year. We were hunters and gatherers who went 30, 40 or 100 miles
to get the goods and bring them back to our families. These
people moved around. The expanse is huge. It is not like an
agrarian centre where the farmers stayed in one central area. The
hunter-gatherer society was a a totally different concept. We
cannot impose an agrarian principle on a hunter-gatherer. Going
into the bush is like going into a new world. Welcome it because
it is a beautiful place.
We see the head offices of industrial and corporate developments
in Calgary, Toronto and Vancouver but they have no presence in
the north. They have to leave legacies. I challenge
institutions such as universities, research centres and
hospitals. I challenge anyone in the House to identify anything
that the Hudson's Bay Company has left in our northern villages.
Not one swing, not one slide and not one hospital bed has been
left by the Hudson's Bay Company in any of our northern
communities. That is a shame. That is not what corporate
consciousness should be like here in Canada or in the world.
I challenge the federal government to take leadership in
northern development. We have a department called Indian Affairs
and Northern Development that has been comfortable with
identifying north of 60 as the north. The north is not north of
60. It is further south than that. The 55th parallel or even the
53rd or 52nd parallel in some of our provinces is truly defined
as the northern half of our provinces.
I want to touch on the agricultural crisis that is growing and
offer my perspective on this whole process. The throne speech was
very remiss in not identifying the farm income crisis. The whole
industrialization of the agricultural industry has taken its toll
on the independent farmer. It is beyond many of the factors that
have come into play. There are multinational interests.
There are four or five multinational companies that control the
food and drug industry in the world. They are not in this
debate. We have farm aid, which I just recently acknowledged.
Country music is near and dear to many people in the country.
Willie Nelson throws a major farm aid benefit in the U.S. The
non-profit farm aid corporation identifies its concerns with the
multinational interests in farming.
They say that no matter how much money or how much aid the
farmers get, unless the corporations ease up on the input and
output costs of the farm, it is the same corporations controlling
both ends. They basically have the farmers in the middle, in the
crunch.
1720
The whole issue of floods, droughts and the extreme conditions
we are getting from climate change will have an impact on the
agricultural industry for years to come. It is not only a short
term problem, it will be a very long term issue.
In one of my local papers I was bold enough to raise the idea
that maybe a royal commission should be commissioned to report on
the family farm in order to protect it. Let us document 1999 and
the year 2000. Let us show our children in documented form how
the evolution of the farm came to be in Canada, where it should
be going, what the factors are and who had their hands in the
farm industry and economy.
Farmers only get mere cents. I understand that because in my
riding there wild rice farmers, ranchers and trappers. I come
from a generation of trappers and hunters. When the fur industry
fell down nobody helped us. We had to look at ourselves and
where we were going. The fur industry is still there.
The people just love living off the land. There is pride living
off the land and being able to provide one's family with the food
and shelter they need. A lot of our urbanized people who had
lost touch with the land have regained a whole new connection
with respect to the beauty of it.
My father still goes out on the land, as did my grandparents
before that. That is the connectedness that we have to give our
children for the future, as well. Let us not remove them and put
them all in an urban centre.
The throne speech contains grand promises for children, health
and the environment. We have the economy, diversity,
technological change and all these exchanges being promised in
the throne speech. The challenge now for Canadians is to push
the government to make good on its promises. We have to make
sure that the surpluses are spent right, that they are not going
only into political strongholds or pockets. We have to make sure
that all Canadians benefit.
I am here to bring a message, on behalf of the people in the
constituency I represent, that we are in northern Canada. The
people in Churchill River consider themselves as northerners. We
cannot be brushed off as “those people from the west”. We are
living in western Canada but we live in the northern region, in
the northern climate of the country. It is a whole new and
different economy with a new and different social community. When
mining and timber industries make plans for one's backyard, it
does have an effect on the north but does not affect the social
or economic well-being in the country.
On behalf of our people, I beg for a change in the freshwater
fish marketing industry that I spoke about earlier. The
government is deregulating airlines, railroads, power utilities,
telephone utilities and everything else.
We have a freshwater fish marketing that does not even allow our
people to sell across the border. The people in the community of
Pierceland, just a stone's throw away from the Alberta border,
cannot even sell their pickerel to Cold Lake which is just across
the border. They have to sell it all the way down in Winnipeg
which is one big fishing plant. By then the fish is not fresh
anymore. It is old, frozen fish by the time it leaves that
plant.
Anyone wanting to buy fresh fish should come to the northern
lakes and buy it right off our docks. We will fillet it, dry it,
even smoke it and ship it. Maybe we can use e-commerce to make
us economically viable as world traders. The deregulation of the
freshwater fish industry has to happen. It is a far cry today
from what it actually intended to be 30 years ago. I think a lot
of northern fishers were blindsided by the promises of the
federal government.
I congratulate the government for making bold promises, but we,
as Canadians, are here to say that we have to go through with our
promises, especially when we are dealing with the future of
children. If it is a children's agenda, let us not sway from the
promises being made. We will hold the government true to that.
1725
Mr. Myron Thompson (Wild Rose, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I
will ask one straightforward question and then I will follow up
with a second question.
I am interested in knowing what language the member started his
speech off with because I was fascinated by it.
I commend the member on his speech. It is seldom that we see
people get up in the House and speak from their hearts as this
man obviously did. When we speak from the heart we put all our
political stripes aside. We have to admire a person for being
able to do that when we know that he truly means it and that it
is not some canned speech that has been written for him by some
other group. I appreciate that.
Let us get back to the throne speech and the title, “A Better
Quality of Life”. The member may know that I spent some time in
the Indian affairs department as one of the critics. My mission
was going across the country and visiting as many reserves as I
possibly could, which ended up being several hundred, and
visiting with grassroots people. I did not visit with the elite.
I did not visit with chiefs and council. I talked to people face
to face and tried to see the problems from their point of view.
I will give the member one example of the reserve in my riding.
It is in the most beautiful spot one could ever ask for in
Alberta. It borders the grand Banff National Park. It is a huge
reserve with a tremendous amount of agricultural land and many
hills and trees. It has a river running through it and a huge
lake where a lot of people gather for skiing, boating and things
of that nature. Highway 1, a major interprovincial highway, runs
through the reserve. Approximately 10 million people drive
through this reserve on an annual basis as they head for Banff
National Park.
However, on this reserve the unemployment rate is 90%. The debt
load is huge. Approximately 16% of children who start their
education complete it by grade 12. Most of them are in schools
outside of the reserve. Poverty is at its greatest. In the
member's view, what kind of quality of life does the throne
speech promise for the people who are suffering on many of these
reserves?
Mr. Rick Laliberte: Mr. Speaker, my first language is
Cree. I was raised speaking Cree and I had to go to school to
learn English. I am a very fortunate person to have that
language. It is a gift from the Creator. In order to speak from
the heart, as I did in my speech today, I had to open with my
language. That is how I opened the door to share that with the
House.
The member highlighted one reserve in his question and wanted to
know what the throne speech had to offer. The throne speech
aside, the relationship between aboriginal communities, mine
included, and the rest of Canada is a major challenge that
started 500 years ago. The challenge is whether we can live with
each other's laws.
I say each other because we have grown accustomed to and have
lived under the British North America Act and the laws that came
through Britain and this House for all of Canada. However, can
Canadians who came to this continent live with the aboriginal
laws and policies? That is where the empowerment is.
Aboriginal people could see that giving up a way of life and
allowing other people to live on their land was a major
investment. However, if those people can build their houses,
build their roads, teach their children, preserve their language
and make their people healthy, then they will feel a sense of
pride that will take them and ignite them and keep the cycle of
life going.
1730
It is not a linear journey; it is a cycle. We only serve one
cycle. So when aboriginal people are given an opportunity to
prove to their community that they can achieve something in a
respectful way, that is the investment that will take us into the
next generations.
With respect to the throne speech, I said that I would not get
political in my speech, so I cannot slam anybody for not having
anything in there. What we have to do in the relationships we
have in the new millennium, among our communities, is to live
with each other and respect each other's laws and ways of life.
That will take us forever.
Mr. Inky Mark (Dauphin—Swan River, Ref.): Madam
Speaker, like my Reform colleague, I would like to thank the
member for Churchill River for opening the door to the discussion
of the diversity of this country, which is the strength of our
country.
Unfortunately the Liberal government tends to govern from the
point of view of urban Canada. That creates a lot of problems.
One of the existing rural problems is the farm crisis in western
Canada. It is very difficult to convince the people who live in
urban surroundings that the problem is real. It is much like the
situation faced by constituents of Churchill River, who live in
the northern part of Saskatchewan, which is different from the
southern, rural, agricultural based economy. We can see why
there are so many difficulties encountered, certainly in the
House, in getting the message through to the government.
It is much like the problems of the Freshwater Fish Marketing
Board, which exists in my constituency. Not only is my riding
agricultural, but because we have freshwater lakes we also have
fishermen. The problems of the Freshwater Fish Marketing Board
in determining where fish can be sold can be compared to the
farmers who face restrictions and penalties under the Canadian
Wheat Board.
We have a lot of problems. If we are really going to look at a
new way of governing the people of this country we have to look
at new vehicles and measures.
Does the member have any ideas on how we can get rid of
institutions like the Freshwater Fish Marketing Board and the
Canadian Wheat Board, or at least make them more flexible so they
meet the needs of the people they are supposed to serve?
Mr. Rick Laliberte: Madam Speaker, I had an opportunity
to travel through the city of Dauphin. It was the first time I
realized that it was in the interlake area.
I dare not compare the Freshwater Fish Marketing Board to the
Canadian Wheat Board. Freshwater fish have to be fresh. We
cannot wait for fish to go to market. Wheat and other grains can
wait. We see silos and holding elevators all over the prairie
provinces. These containers can hold their grains for months on
end, but we cannot hold fish. It has to be fresh.
The most delicate fish is pickerel. It is the best fish to be
eaten, right out of the lake, into the frying pan. If we buy it
in markets it is drowned fish. My uncle, who is a professional
fisherman, tells us that.
Fresh fish is not governed by the Freshwater Fish Marketing
Board. That is frozen fish. It is like McCain's fish and chips
in the store. That is not the nutritional fish that comes from
our lakes.
We cannot compare the Canadian Wheat Board to the Freshwater
Fish Marketing Board. That is all I can say. There is no
comparison. The federal control that the hon. member was
referring to is a whole different thing. When we talk about
freshwater fish, let us keep it fresh. Let us sell it as
directly as we can to the markets.
Let us bring the processing plants back to those little
communities. The processing jobs, the jobs of the people who
fileted the fish, who gutted the fish in our little plants, all
went to Transcona. It is a sad fact. There could have been one
or two jobs in Williston Lake, which has a community of 200
people.
1735
[Translation]
Mrs. Marlene Jennings (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, Lib.): Madam
Speaker, it is truly an honour for me to speak today on the
address in reply to the Speech from the Throne. Before I begin,
however, I would like to give a bit of an explanation of the
context of the aspect of the speech on which I am going to
concentrate: the chairs of excellence.
[English]
In my riding of Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine there is a
university. It is the Loyola Campus of Concordia University. On
the Island of Montreal we have four major universities.
[Translation]
There is the Université de Montréal, McGill, the two campuses of
Concordia, and the Université du Québec à Montréal. I have had
the honour and the privilege of studying at three of these:
Concordia, McGill and UQAM.
So, when the representatives of the universities came to see me
after the 1997 election to tell me of their need for more money
for the research councils, funding for innovation, for
infrastructure, and for the researchers themselves, I was very
pleased to be able to support their approaches to the government
for this funding.
[English]
As we all know, in previous budgets the Canadian government
announced the creation of the Canadian Foundation for Innovation
with a $1 billion endowment fund. The foundation was to create
the physical infrastructure which the universities, institutes of
research and the councils require. However, we need the people.
We need the researchers.
We have been hearing a lot about the brain drain. One thing is
clear. There has been a certain amount of brain drain in terms
of our qualified researchers and our young graduates who, because
of the lack of opportunities here, have been lured away to
universities in the United States and elsewhere to undertake
important research activities.
It was a great pleasure for me to learn that our government,
through its throne speech, took on the challenge. By doing so it
has started a bold venture that will be one of the cornerstones
of our effort as a government to ensure that Canada is the place
to be, the place to live, the place that people want to come to
and the place where people want to stay in the third millennium
to take full advantage of the knowledge based society and economy
of the 21st century.
What is that bold venture? That bold venture is the creation of
the 21st century chairs for research excellence. The government
announced in its throne speech that through the research granting
councils, the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council,
the Medical Research Council and the Natural Sciences and
Engineering Research Council, it will be funding the creation of
1,200 new 21st century chairs for research excellence in Canadian
universities over the next three years.
That is a major investment. We can be assured that our Canadian
universities have received the information on this new project
with great joy and happiness.
We will be investing in the first year $60 million, in the
second year $120 million and in the third year and every
subsequent year $180 million.
1740
One of the objectives is not simply to rest on our laurels with
1,200 chairs, it is ultimately to bring that number up to 2,000
chairs of research excellence in the third millennium.
What are these chairs of excellence going to do? They are going
to be two tiered. One will be to attract our established star
researchers who already have a proven record in their field of
conducting leading research endeavours. The second tier will be
to attract our rising stars. We have been losing on both fronts
over the last years. Everyone knows that the government in its
fight to eliminate the deficit had to reduce funding to the
research councils. That obviously had a boomerang effect. It
meant that there was less money for researchers. Therefore,
researchers who wanted to continue conducting their work in some
cases had to look elsewhere.
By creating these 1,200 chairs of research excellence, and
hopefully bringing them up to 2,000, we will be able to keep our
proven star researchers and attract the rising stars. All
Canadian universities will be able to participate.
To receive funding the universities will submit proposals to a
competitive peer review process which will be administered by the
three granting councils.
This program sends a strong message, a strong signal that Canada
is the place to be for research and development in the third
millennium, that Canada is serious about fostering and nurturing
a healthy research environment in Canada and that we are serious
about nurturing and fostering a strong economy through knowledge
and innovation.
This is what we call added value. The Canadian Foundation for
Innovation, the expansion of the networks of centres of
excellence and the development of the Canadian institutes of
health research that the hon. member for Peterborough spoke about
at great length are the cornerstones that will ensure that Canada
will be the place to be for research and innovation in the third
millennium. Our renewed and increased funding to the granting
councils is the added value, along with the 21st century chairs
of research excellence.
I am not an innovative person, so I have a difficult time
imagining what else we can do. However, I am sure that with all
of the bright minds in the House we will get many suggestions on
what we can do to ensure that we are the place to be.
By creating these 1,200 chairs of research excellence we will
have the best people doing research in Canada, which will create
our next generation of the world's best. The world's best will
be here in Canada. Our young researchers will seek out the top
opportunities for work and they will choose Canada, both our
young researchers in Canada as well as those from elsewhere.
Graduate students will be looking for leaders, proven stars in
research, to assist them in their research projects. Because
there will be the first tier for the star researchers with a
proven track record, they will want to come to our Canadian
universities to complete their graduate and post-graduate
studies.
1745
The program for the 21st century chairs for research excellence
builds on the comprehensive strategy to boost innovation that
this Liberal government has been implementing over the last three
years. As I mentioned, that includes a $1 billion endowment for
the Canada foundation for innovation, the expansion of the
networks of centres of excellence, the Canadian institutes for
health research with $500 million over three years and the
renewal of funding to our granting councils.
Mr. Scott Brison (Kings—Hants, PC): Madam Speaker, I am
pleased that the hon. member and some of her government
colleagues have finally recognized the brain drain phenomenon.
The number of people for instance going to the U.S. from Canada
has grown from 17,000 to about 86,000 in I believe the last 12
years. It is very, very important. The fact is that Nortel is
losing 300 to 400 software engineers per year to the U.S. This is
very, very important.
The hon. member seems to believe with some level of 1970s
Liberal economic naivete that all this can be solved with
government intervention. This is despite the fact that most of
the companies that are affected are pointing to the tax system as
having a significant and deleterious impact on our ability to
keep people here.
There are three areas that are raised most frequently by the
high tech sector. The capital gains tax system is effectively
twice as oppressive in Canada than in the U.S. That affects those
in the high tech sector because of stock options. Also, our top
marginal tax rate kicks in at $60,000 in Canada. The equivalent
top marginal tax threshold in the U.S. does not occur until
$420,000 Canadian.
I would suggest that some of those stars we are trying to keep
are probably in that over $60,000 tax level, so it is very
important that we address those issues. I look forward to the
hon. member's comments.
Mrs. Marlene Jennings: Madam Speaker, I recognize that
there has been some brain drain. I also recognize the problem in
Canada that there are people who have skills and training, but
because of the lack of a standardized recognition of licences and
diplomas from province to province, Canadians have a hard time
being mobile from province to province.
I will not dispute the figures the hon. member just mentioned. I
have not looked at those figures so I cannot state whether or not
they are accurate. Given that your party has recently suffered—
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): I must interrupt the
hon. member and ask her to address her remarks through the Chair,
please.
Mrs. Marlene Jennings: Madam Speaker, you are quite
correct.
Given that the hon. member's party has recently suffered from
its own brain drain with a member moving from the Progressive
Conservative Party over to the Liberal Party of Canada, I will
take that as an example of the hon. member having more personal
experience about brain drain than I have.
The hon. member talks about the issue of higher taxes here in
Canada as compared to the United States. Everybody knows that.
Everybody knows that our personal income taxes are higher,
approximately 10% I believe it is. He may correct me on that.
However, it is also known that our payroll taxes are much lower
than those of most of the countries in the G-7, including the
United States if I am not mistaken. I may be corrected if I am
mistaken.
It has already been announced. The Minister of Finance already
discussed the economic outlook for the next couple of years.
I believe it is clear there will be a lessening of the personal
income tax burden. There already has been.
1750
Over the last couple of years $16 billion has been cut from
personal income taxes. That is where the 10% comes in. It has
come out to approximately 10% lower income taxes paid by the
average Canadian. There has been a steady decrease in personal
income taxes.
In the last budget we removed the 3% surtax which the
Progressive Conservative Party established when it formed the
government. That in itself is a major impact. We will be
reducing taxes. However, we will not do anything which will put
into peril the health of our economy and put us back into a
deficit position.
Mr. David Pratt (Nepean—Carleton, Lib.): Madam Speaker,
it is a great pleasure to rise in the House today to participate
in the throne speech debate.
First I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Her
Excellency our new Governor General on her historic appointment.
I wish her nothing but the very best of luck in the years ahead
with her new and important responsibilities.
The government's throne speech is a blueprint which lays the
foundation for the government's plans in the years to come. As
we approach the new millennium, there is an unprecedented
optimism in Canada's future which is captured in the eloquence of
the throne speech. What an unbelievable change from just a few
short years ago.
In 1993, the last year of the Conservative government, Canada's
fiscal house was crumbling on its very foundation. The previous
Conservative government let the debt skyrocket out of control for
years and was operating with a $42 billion deficit. The country
was literally teetering on the brink of financial disaster.
Liberals understood that if Canada was to be a global force to be
reckoned with in the new millennium, we absolutely had to get
this country back on track. Canada needed bold leadership, sound
fiscal policy and unparalleled political courage to restore our
national future.
Six years later, we have delivered. Canada has moved from red
ink to black ink, from pessimism to pride. In four short years
we eliminated the deficit and recorded a budgetary surplus of
$3.5 billion in 1998, the first surplus in 28 years. We have
regained the capacity to make choices of how we build the future.
We are now positioned to be a leader in the new and ever
changing global arena.
This throne speech for the millennium builds upon our original
and balanced and comprehensive plan. We are committed to staying
the course in an effort to improve the lives of each and every
Canadian. Our plan includes developing our children and youth,
leaders for the 21st century; enhancing our dynamic economy;
strengthening the quality of our health care; ensuring the
quality of the environment; building stronger communities; and
advancing Canada's place in the world.
In the new global economy, knowledge and technological
innovation are the cornerstones of a higher standard of living
and a better quality of life. This government is committed to
Canada's role as a global leader in high technology. This is
very good news, especially for my constituency.
My riding of Nepean—Carleton is situated in the hub of Canada's
fastest growing region of high technology firms, Silicon Valley
North, as it has become known. This region is responsible for
75% of Canada's telecommunications research and development. It
boasts almost 1,000 advanced technology companies that employ
more than 48,000 people.
From rather humble beginnings with agencies like the National
Research Council and the Communications Research Establishment to
companies like Bell Northern and Computing Devices, small
companies have grown into large companies. These companies in
turn have spawned other companies featuring new products and new
technology. This cycle continues to create jobs and prosperity
and export dollars for Canada.
It is vital that the government remains committed to promoting
Canada's role as a leader in new technologies. Month by month
the government's policies aimed at growth in this sector of the
economy continue to bear fruit.
Yesterday, Nortel Networks announced that it plans to invest
$330 million in Canada to enhance its booming optical networking
business, tripling overall production capacity by next year.
Montreal and Ottawa are the greatest beneficiaries of this major
capital infusion. New high tech facilities will be constructed
in both cities with approximately 2,300 new jobs shared between
the two.
In total, Nortel expects to invest $210 million in Ottawa and an
additional $120 million in Montreal.
1755
Just last July, JDS Uniphase, which employs close to 2,400
workers in my riding, unveiled its new 500,000 square foot
research facility in Nepean.
Both announcements and the scores of others we hear on a regular
basis from this industry are indicative of the high level of
confidence in Canada's high technology future and the future of
the Ottawa area as Silicon Valley North. This is a clear sign
that globally renowned companies on the cutting edge of the new
information technologies recognize that Canada is indeed the
place to be in the 21st century.
I will say a few words about the finance minister's fiscal
update which he delivered yesterday. It is clearly a fundamental
and integral component of the government's plans for the years
ahead as expressed in the throne speech.
Profound congratulations are in order for the Minister of
Finance. Yesterday he delivered an economic statement that can
only be described as extraordinary. He has done an absolutely
superb job. Together, the throne speech and the economic and
fiscal update are a one-two punch for Canada that moves us into a
class by ourselves. Together these two documents show tremendous
leadership and vision by the Prime Minister and the Minister of
Finance.
The Minister of Finance's economic statement is consistent with
what the government has said all along, that the Canadian economy
is very strong and our finances are very sound. Unemployment is
at a decade-long low. Interest rates and inflation are both
under control. The forecast of unprecedented budget surpluses
over the next five years is staggering.
I applaud the finance minister's pledge to keep an open and
transparent budget planning process. The more Canadians know
about and have input into our economic situation, the better the
government can work to the benefit of all Canadians.
I wish to express my unqualified support for the fact that the
government is refusing to be complacent about fiscal
responsibility. The openness and care with which the contingency
reserve funds are to be handled and the commitment to never fund
tax relief with borrowed dollars are vitally important. I am
sure this is a great comfort to Canadians.
Let me talk about our future prosperity, the foundation for
which has been laid by the Prime Minister, the Minister of
Finance and the government.
First and most crucial, yesterday's economic and fiscal update
made it abundantly clear that skills, knowledge and building a
more innovative economy remain the critical investment priorities
of this government. Beginning at the earliest stages of
development right through to post-secondary education and beyond,
the government's plan for the future displays a lifetime
commitment to our children for their lifetime.
I speak of the extension of parental EI benefits, of the $7
billion national child benefit system, of the $1.2 billion
Canadian opportunities strategy, and of the Canada education
savings grant, as merely the beginning of the initiatives which
the government will take on.
The investment in Canadian prosperity does not stop there. It
is well acknowledged that the societies which will thrive over
the next decade not just economically but in all aspects are
those societies which excel at innovation. We must foster an
economic environment which will make our brightest minds want to
stay and innovate in Canada.
The proposed multi-year program for sustained and broad based
tax relief is a fundamental component of our economic and fiscal
plans. The underlying philosophy of the government's approach to
tax cuts were conveyed in yesterday's economic statement.
I quote the Minister of Finance directly: “There are many
reasons for reducing taxes. However, there is one I would like
to mention because it is too frequently overlooked. It is quite
simply that Canadians are entitled to keep more of the money they
earn. After all, they worked for it. It is theirs”. Those are
the words of our finance minister, a true tax cutter.
The reduction of employment insurance premiums for the sixth
consecutive year will also put a further $1.2 billion into the
pockets of Canadians. The determination of the government to
make our business tax system internationally competitive will
keep jobs, and of equal importance, brain power, innovation and
excellence in Canada where they belong.
Let me take this opportunity to say a few words concerning how
the throne speech relates to Canada's place in the world. There
is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Canadians want their
government to play an active, independent and internationalist
role in the world.
What are our responsibilities as one of the most peaceful and
prosperous countries on the face of the planet?
There is an old saying that to whom much has been given much is
expected. The world has the right to expect a lot from Canada
through our involvement in the global community and we must not
let it down.
1800
We have made and continue to make significant contributions to
peacekeeping and international development. With Canadian
peacekeepers in Bosnia, Kosovo and East Timor, just to mention
some of the more significant deployments, we have the largest
contingent of Canadians abroad since the Korean war. With the
recent announcements of more funds for international development
assistance, combined with our peacekeeping, Canada is doing its
share, but there is still much to do.
Our foreign minister's human security agenda which seeks to
enhance the safety of civilians in armed conflicts is in my view
one of the most important foreign policy initiatives to come out
of this country in decades. While we have made progress on the
land mines issue and the International Court of Justice, the
challenges ahead are immense.
To sum up, this is a throne speech that exudes confidence in
Canada, our economic and social future, as well as our privileged
place in the family of nations. It is a throne speech that
speaks to our achievements and looks ahead to the challenges and
great opportunities that Canada faces in the 21st century.
Mr. Myron Thompson (Wild Rose, Ref.): Madam Speaker,
once again I heard about the quality of life. The hon. member
knows that Canada was chosen by the United Nations as being the
best country in which to live. He also knows that if Indian
reserves are factored in then that moves us to 35th. That is a
quote from the United Nations. It is then far worse than some
countries, even Mexico and Jamaica, with the life on the reserves
factored in, with the poverty, the turmoil and the difficulties
that exist there.
I do not want to be told that we need to put more money into the
department because the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern
Development is the only department that has had an increase in
its budget every year since the government came into power. It
is not more money that is needed.
What is the member suggesting that the government should do
about the quality of life of the people who are ranked 35th in
the world? There are third world conditions in Canada.
Mr. David Pratt: Madam Speaker, I feel that the hon.
member opposite has misinterpreted or misunderstood the human
development index.
I took the opportunity just shortly after the index was released
and the announcement made to go to the United Nations website and
print out a huge document covering all aspects of the human
development index. The place that Canada occupies in the human
development index is based on a wide range of factors which takes
into account things like life expectancy, education and quality
of health care. There are an enormous number of criteria
contained in that index. As a result of taking into account all
the criteria, Canada ranks number one in the world. It is
extraordinary that we have been in that place for the last six
years.
That is not to say that in certain areas we cannot do better.
Clearly, as it relates to our aboriginal population, we must do
better. Some initiatives the government has taken, and I am
thinking specifically with respect to the Nisga'a treaty, lay the
foundation for prosperity for our aboriginal peoples. It points
the way in terms of the self-government process which the
government has adopted of allowing native Canadians to run their
own affairs and to have some control over their future. As bad
as things may be for our native population according to the hon.
member, things have to be kept in perspective with respect to how
other parts of the world live.
I know the Reform Party has never been very keen on
international development, but I had the opportunity to represent
this country as a special envoy to Sierra Leone. Sierra Leone is
ranked last of 174 nations under the human development index.
Having seen the conditions in which the people in that country
live, I wish in some respects that many Canadians would have the
opportunity to go to places like that so they could see how the
poorest of the poor live. I am sure they would probably feel as
I did. They would want to come back to this country and kiss the
very ground we walk on.
1805
We are blessed in this country. We are prosperous. Our country
is peaceful compared to many other places in the world. We have
an obligation not just to help native Canadians and aboriginal
Canadians but to help other people in the world through our
international development assistance programs.
We have a responsibility to assist others who are in need. The
government takes that responsibility very seriously. I am
absolutely delighted that our government has taken the
opportunity of the throne speech to announce more funds for
international development because I think Canada does have a
responsibility. We are doing a great deal but we can always do
more.
[Translation]
Mr. David Price (Compton—Stanstead, PC): Madam Speaker, I will
share my time with the member for Beauséjour—Petitcodiac.
On behalf of my constituents in the riding of
Compton—Stanstead, I am pleased to speak to the Speech from the
Throne. I congratulate the new Governor General, Adrienne
Clarkson, on her new challenge, which, I am sure, she will meet
with dignity and wisdom.
I would like to say a few words on several matters not included
in the throne speech, inadvertently no doubt.
I realize that, in the throne speech, no one expects all the
details, but it should at least contain an outline of all the
areas of government responsibility.
[English]
I have to mention two items that were not addressed in the
throne speech. The first was national defence. There was one
line at the end of the speech which basically said nothing. I
will quote it:
The Government will also continue to ensure that Canadian Forces
have the capacity to support Canada's role in building a more
secure world and will further develop the capacity of Canadians
to help ensure peace and security in foreign land.
The first line is interesting. I think we all know a lot better
than that. We have a national defence system that is dying of
equipment rust out. Yes, we do have a few pieces of state of the
art equipment but we are lacking in 90% of our equipment.
Governments around the world all know and say that national
defence planning is long term. In 1994 we put forth a white
paper with a long term affordable plan. This plan has now been
put by the wayside. If the standing committee had not
concentrated on the quality of life of our soldiers, they would
still be living below the poverty line. Imagine working poor in
our military.
I congratulate the Minister of National Defence for supporting
the SCONDVA in the quality of life report to date. I hope he
will continue to do so. There will be reports coming to the
House giving us the heads up on quality of life issues, but I
only wish the minister would follow through on the 1994 white
paper.
The 1994 white paper is this government's document. I would
understand if it were from a previous government that it would
not honour such a paper. We do see this a lot. This is a plan
to which all parties agreed. It is not a grandiose plan. It is
a plan to get our military back on its feet and to give our
soldiers a better working chance to do their job with safe and
modern equipment. Our military is stretched to its limit in both
manpower and equipment. We cannot even work under our own flag
when we take up peacekeeping duties throughout the world.
Let us look at all the peacekeeping locations in which we are
working under another country. Small groups all over the world
cost far more than having one brigade group under our own flag
with proper rotation so that all our soldiers can get proper rest
and family time. This is a high stress job. Many of the
problems we see in our military are caused from this stress.
Regular rotation and rest would reduce many of the physical and
mental problems. I could go on with many more details but there
is a lack of time.
I would also like to discuss another subject which I did not see
addressed in the throne speech, immigration. I do not think
anyone would argue against the fact that our immigration system
is broken. This was evident this summer with the west coast
migrant problem. This is but the tip of the iceberg. The 600
refugee claimants on the west coast represent only 2% of our
annual total.
1810
[Translation]
The former minister had promised a new bill on immigration for
October 1999. Today is November 3, and from what I can see,
this new bill is not on the agenda of the House or the standing
committee.
The problem of illegal refugees is very easy to understand. It
is a lot easier and quicker to enter Canada this way even if the
practice is illegal and very dangerous for those who choose it.
The Canadian Trucking Association urgently needs 5,000 employees
that it cannot recruit in Canada. However, our immigration
system is slow to react. Two-year delays are unreasonable and
unacceptable, particularly when there is a lack of knowledge
about the qualifications required. For instance, seeing a doctor
or an accountant delivering pizza or driving a taxi, seems
ridiculous to me.
I want to describe a typical case seen by the Department of
Citizenship and Immigration, another department that stands out,
unfortunately, for its inefficiency.
In June 1998, one of my constituents applied to the embassy in
the Republic of Ghana for permanent residence for his wife, who
was seven months pregnant. The same month, approval was
received from the provincial and federal governments. It seems
very, very simple.
Several months passed and the only information the woman
received about her application was that she would be called to
an interview at some point in time. She would then be asked to
undergo a medical examination.
On February 8, 1999, in other words several months later, her
husband came to my riding office to ask me to try to find out
what I could about his file.
The woman gave birth on January 8, 1999. An initial e-mail was
immediately sent to the embassy, requesting that I be told where
the file was at. There was no reply.
On February 16, 1999, the man got in touch with his wife, who
said that the interview was to take place in March 1999 or as
soon as an officer went to Bamako. Depending on how the
interview went, an medical examination would follow.
On April 1, 1999, another e-mail went out from my riding office
to the embassy. Once again, there was no reply.
On April 6, 1999, my office send a new e-mail, and again on April 13.
Finally, on April 15, I receive a reply which reads as follows:
“The following is in response to your message of April 13, 1999.
The woman will have to be interviewed before a decision can be
made. We were unable to reach her on time during our last trip
to Bamako, in March. We therefore put her name back on the
waiting list for our next trip, the date of which has yet to be
determined”.
“However, if she can make the trip to Abidjan, she could be
interviewed quickly, that is within a week's notice. If the
applicant and the assisting relative choose that option, let me
know so that arrangements can be made accordingly”.
I therefore informed my constituent and I gave notice of the
option chosen by this woman, who will travel to Abidjan.
On April 27, 1999, the woman showed up for her interview in
Abidjan. On May 19, she underwent her medical examination. She
was declared healthy and now simply had to wait for her visa. On
July 5, 1999, my constituent came to see me again and told me
that he has not heard anything about his wife's visa since May.
1815
That same day, an e-mail was sent to the embassy, asking for
information about the wife's visa. On July 6, the embassy
replied that the husband's divorce certificate was required.
Is it not odd that a whole year had passed before the
immigration adviser realized this document was missing from the
file? Yet at the interview the wife was never informed of the
obligation to provide this document.
On July 9, the husband's divorce certificate was faxed to the
embassy and my constituent has proof that it was sent.
On July 16, 1999, I again e-mailed the embassy, asking for
confirmation that the certificate had been received. On August
2, I sent another e-mail to the embassy. I have still not
received an answer.
On August 17, I still had heard nothing from the embassy. I sent
another e-mail on August 27. What is going on? Canada's
embassies are understaffed.
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): I am sorry, but the hon.
member's time is up.
[English]
Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I
listened with great interest to my colleague's account. This is
clearly a very difficult circumstance for the people actually
involved.
We deal with 210 or 212 countries on a regular basis in terms of
immigration. It is an extraordinary thing.
I, for example, live in a riding which does not consider itself
particularly “ethnic” and yet I represent between 60 and 70
first generation nationalities. I know there are colleagues on
this side from the great cities of Canada who also represent 200
different first generation Canadians. I mention that to the
member, not as an excuse, but as a fact. It is very complex out
there and our embassies struggle with a variety of people.
By the way, when I say 210 to 212, if we are dealing with a
country like India they may well be dealing with not just five or
six official languages but with hundreds of other languages.
There are difficulties and I know my colleague is aware of them.
I, like the member, work as hard as I can on immigration cases.
Does he, as a member of parliament, ever consider dealing with
people in the department here in Canada? I know e-mail is a
wonderful thing, but when it gets complicated and has gone on for
12 months, does he ever pick up the phone and deal directly with
the embassies? He is clearly fluent in both of our official
languages and can do that.
I have one last question to ask the member. What is the
relevance of this to the Speech from the Throne?
Mr. David Price: Madam Speaker, I will go through this
very quickly and I will do it in English.
To answer part of the hon. member's question, yes, I did do a
lot of this myself and I did try phoning several times. As I
mentioned at the outset, this is just one of many cases. I live
in an area with a very low ethnic population but I deal with
cases like this on a very regular basis. I think the biggest
problem is a lack of people in our embassies to do the work. We
also know there has been a huge cut in the number of people.
In reference to what this has to do with the Speech from the
Throne, I mentioned of course the armed forces which was very
lightly gone over in the Speech from the Throne, but immigration
was not mentioned at all.
1820
The Speech from the Throne is supposed to set out the priorities
of the government in general terms. I said at the outset that we
were not expecting to see details. We are looking at the
generalities. Everything should be covered in the Speech from
the Throne. There was nothing about immigration, in particular
since immigration has been one of the top problems today.
The case I brought forward is not a refugee problem. It is the
problem of getting a family back together, something that is
supposed to have a very high priority. At the end of the file
the lady finally received her visa a couple of weeks ago after a
year and a half. She was pregnant when she applied. In that
time period she had the baby. Her husband has had the
opportunity to go there but it is very expensive to run back and
forth. It seems so unfair when we are trying to get families
together that we are not doing it.
There should have been a reference in the Speech from the Throne
stating that we should be doing something about immigration. The
minister promised to bring forward a bill in October. It is now
November. When we look at the agenda there is nothing there.
There is nothing happening in committee. The bill is not coming
forward. That is what I am talking about.
Ms. Angela Vautour (Beauséjour—Petitcodiac, PC): Madam
Speaker, today I am talking about what was not in the throne
speech. That is what we have to look at. There were a lot of
areas not covered and what was in the speech was vague, anyway.
There was no vision in the throne speech for the unemployed who
are dependent on social assistance. There was no vision for our
youth. The throne speech made absolutely no reference to an
increase in transfer payments to the provinces that administer
those programs.
There was mention of children. However the day after the throne
speech there were as many hungry children as the day before. I
am not sure that there was a lot in the speech for children.
Transfer payments have been slashed by billions of dollars since
the arrival of the Liberal government, actually $11 billion.
[Translation]
That is a lot of money. If they think that problems can be
solved by cutting back programs, they are mistaken. If they
continue to take money from the provinces administering these
programs, our children will keep on going to school hungry, and
they will keep on saying “I cannot afford to stay in school past
Grade 12”. This is not acceptable, especially in a rich country
like Canada.
[English]
What have these cuts caused in our communities? Since 1993 we
have 500,000 more poor children in this very rich country. This
means more children are going to school hungry.
I must take this opportunity to commend Premier Bernard Lord for
initiating and putting in place a breakfast program in our
schools, a program very much needed since the arrival of the
Liberal government in 1993.
In New Brunswick during the Liberal regime of the McKenna and
Thériault governments they slashed over 600 hospital worker jobs
during their 10 year reign in New Brunswick. With only three
months in power Premier Lord announced 300 new jobs in our health
care system. Again I commend him. It shows that if we want to
we can. Premier Lord is dealing with the same amount of money
that Camille Thériault and Frank McKenna were dealing with, but
what they were doing was slashing. It seems to be a habit of
theirs as it is in Ottawa.
For our young men and women wanting to further their education
after high school there was certainly no vision in the throne
speech. To be $50,000 in debt after four to six years of
university is certainly unacceptable. The children of our rich
country should be given a real chance to be prepared and ready to
lead our country in the future. A $50,000 debt is an obstacle
that must be addressed. It can be addressed by the Liberal
government increasing transfer payments to the provinces.
[Translation]
We have to look at the reality of things. I often hear young
people say “I will not be going on after grade 12. It is too
expensive and there are no jobs. I have to move here, I have to
move there, I have to go to the U.S.”.
1825
Our young people do not have a vision of the future. They must
be shown that they can find work in their province and that they
can have post-secondary education. Our young people can
contribute to their community, but they will not do so by
leaving the regions.
Clearly the decisions made here in Ottawa targeted the Atlantic
region. We have seen what that meant in federal elections: the
number of Liberal members dropped from 31 to 11 here in Ottawa.
Clearly, the decisions made targeted the Atlantic regions.
Another reason for the greater number of poor in our country is
the cuts to the employment insurance program.
No one here can say otherwise. It is clear that there is more
poverty.
In the throne speech there is no mention of the negative impact
felt by seasonal workers in this country. Seasonal workers are
everywhere in this country. They are not only in the Atlantic
regions. They exist throughout the country. They depend on the
seasons and not on employment insurance.
[English]
That is very important. People have to realize that seasonal
workers are not dependent on the employment insurance program.
They are dependent on the seasons. If we could have summer for
eight months of the year in New Brunswick, believe me, we would
take it. People would work during that season. If it were a
tourist season of eight months, be assured that people would be
working.
We have to stop attacking the seasonal workers. They are a very
important group. Every day we use or eat something that a
seasonal worker worked at.
[Translation]
Obviously, the deficit was paid down on the backs of high
unemployment regions, as the fund's surplus is $26 billion.
However, people who are not eligible for employment insurance
benefits go for weeks and months without any income.
[English]
It is clear, with a $26 billion surplus in the fund that we did
not get that money where the EI was not being used. That money
came from the regions where there was very high unemployment and
people either did not qualify or went for two to three months
with no income or got a $32 per week cheque. That is how we got
that money.
[Translation]
Let us not forget that, for every poor child, there are poor
parents. In a country as rich as ours, this is unacceptable.
[English]
We also have to talk about health care, a program so important
to all Canadians. I have done surveys and we can talk to any
group. Our health care program is very important. We want to
keep our health care program. Without increasing transfer
payments to the provinces, health care services will continue to
deteriorate. Our hospitals need more doctors, nurses and other
health care workers. Canadians need this now. Lives are
depending on the government's actions.
There was also no mention of our fishery crisis. It is a
crisis. Our caucus was given a presentation by Mr. Christmas
this morning. I was very shocked to hear that the first nations
are negotiating to obtain actually between 30% and 50% of the
Atlantic fishery. I wonder where the government is on this. This
afternoon I made phone calls to different fishermen. I asked if
they were aware that the aboriginal people had put on the table
that they want 30% to 50% of the Atlantic fishery.
I hope that finally the government will take some leadership and
that it will talk to both groups. A lot of families are depending
on that. I hope the government is going to do something because
to do nothing is not an option at this point.
[Translation]
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): It being 6.30 p.m., the
House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to
Standing Order 24(1).
(The House adjourned at 6.30 p.m.)