36th Parliament, 2nd Session
EDITED HANSARD • NUMBER 131
CONTENTS
Wednesday, October 18, 2000
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| STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS
|
| GABRIELLE BERTRAND
|
| Mr. Denis Paradis |
| THE LIBERAL PARTY OF CANADA
|
| Mr. Leon E. Benoit |
| GOVERNMENT OF QUEBEC
|
| Mr. Guy St-Julien |
| HEALTH
|
| Mr. Tony Ianno |
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| CANADIAN INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT AGENCY
|
| Mr. Gurmant Grewal |
| THE LATE RIGHT HON. PIERRE ELLIOT TRUDEAU
|
| Mr. Hec Clouthier |
| VINCENT MARTEL
|
| Mr. Richard Marceau |
| GOVERNOR GENERAL'S AWARD
|
| Mrs. Sue Barnes |
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| THE FAMOUS FIVE
|
| Ms. Val Meredith |
| THE FAMOUS FIVE
|
| Ms. Alexa McDonough |
| MEMBER FOR LAVAL EAST
|
| Mrs. Maud Debien |
| MEMBER FOR NORTHUMBERLAND
|
| Hon. Christine Stewart |
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| THE FAMOUS FIVE
|
| Mrs. Elsie Wayne |
| ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
|
| AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT
|
| Mr. Stockwell Day |
| Right Hon. Jean Chrétien |
| Mr. Stockwell Day |
| Right Hon. Jean Chrétien |
| Mr. Stockwell Day |
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| Right Hon. Jean Chrétien |
| Mr. Stockwell Day |
| Right Hon. Jean Chrétien |
| Mr. Stockwell Day |
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| Right Hon. Jean Chrétien |
| Mr. Gilles Duceppe |
| Right Hon. Jean Chrétien |
| Mr. Gilles Duceppe |
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| Right Hon. Jean Chrétien |
| Mr. Michel Gauthier |
| Right Hon. Jean Chrétien |
| Mr. Michel Gauthier |
| Right Hon. Jean Chrétien |
| HEALTH
|
| Mr. Bill Blaikie |
| Hon. Allan Rock |
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| TAXATION
|
| Mr. Bill Blaikie |
| Hon. Martin Cauchon |
| AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT
|
| Right Hon. Joe Clark |
| Hon. Alfonso Gagliano |
| Right Hon. Joe Clark |
| Hon. Arthur C. Eggleton |
| GOVERNMENT OF CANADA
|
| Mr. Stockwell Day |
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| Right Hon. Jean Chrétien |
| Mr. Stockwell Day |
| Right Hon. Jean Chrétien |
| Mr. Benoît Sauvageau |
| Mr. Benoît Sauvageau |
| Hon. Maria Minna |
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| Mrs. Diane Ablonczy |
| Hon. Jane Stewart |
| Mrs. Diane Ablonczy |
| Hon. Jane Stewart |
| EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
|
| Mr. Paul Crête |
| Hon. Jane Stewart |
| Mr. Paul Crête |
| Hon. Jane Stewart |
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| ECONOMIC STATEMENT
|
| Mr. John Williams |
| Hon. Jim Peterson |
| Mr. John Williams |
| Hon. Jim Peterson |
| SHIPBUILDING
|
| Mr. Antoine Dubé |
| Hon. Jim Peterson |
| HEALTH
|
| Mr. Mauril Bélanger |
| Hon. Allan Rock |
| AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT
|
| Mr. Richard M. Harris |
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| Hon. Jim Peterson |
| Mr. Richard M. Harris |
| Hon. Jim Peterson |
| ECONOMIC POLICY
|
| Mr. Yvon Godin |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| POVERTY
|
| Ms. Libby Davies |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT
|
| Right Hon. Joe Clark |
1500
| Hon. Alfonso Gagliano |
| VETERANS AFFAIRS
|
| Mrs. Elsie Wayne |
| Hon. Ronald J. Duhamel |
| PRESENCE IN GALLERY
|
| The Speaker |
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| POINTS OF ORDER
|
| Oral Question Period
|
| Mr. Benoît Sauvageau |
| Mr. Michel Gauthier |
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| PARLIAMENTARY DELEGATION REPORT
|
| ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
|
| HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL DAY ACT
|
| Bill C-510. Introduction and first reading
|
| Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis |
| PETITIONS
|
| The Environment
|
| Mr. Peter Adams |
| Mount Logan
|
| Mr. Peter Adams |
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| Epilepsy
|
| Mr. Peter Adams |
| Canada Post
|
| Mr. Peter Mancini |
| Child Poverty
|
| Ms. Paddy Torsney |
| Chechnya
|
| Ms. Paddy Torsney |
| Canadian Radio-Television and Communications Commission
|
| Mr. Jean-Guy Chrétien |
| Health Care
|
| Mr. John Solomon |
| Criminal Code
|
| Mr. John Solomon |
| Mammography
|
| Ms. Susan Whelan |
| Abortion
|
| Ms. Susan Whelan |
| Child Poverty
|
| Ms. Susan Whelan |
| Health Care
|
| Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis |
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| The Environment
|
| Mr. Daniel Turp |
| QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER
|
| Mr. Derek Lee |
| MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
|
| Mr. Derek Lee |
| REQUEST FOR EMERGENCY DEBATE
|
| Information Commissioner's Report
|
| Mr. Michel Gauthier |
| GOVERNMENT ORDERS
|
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| ECONOMIC POLICY
|
| Hon. Paul Martin |
| Motion
|
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1535
1540
1545
1550
1555
1600
1605
1610
1615
| Mr. Jason Kenney |
1620
1625
1630
| Amendment
|
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| Mr. Yvan Loubier |
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1645
1650
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| Amendment to the amendment
|
| BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
|
| Hon. Don Boudria |
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| ECONOMIC POLICY
|
| Motion
|
| Mr. John Williams |
1705
| Mr. Yvon Godin |
| Ms. Alexa McDonough |
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1715
1720
1725
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| The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault) |
| ADJOURNMENT PROCEEDINGS
|
| Health
|
| Mr. Greg Thompson |
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| Mr. Yvon Charbonneau |
| Human Resources Development
|
| Right Hon. Joe Clark |
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| Mrs. Raymonde Folco |
1745
| Shipbuilding
|
| Mr. Antoine Dubé |
1750
| Mr. John Finlay |
| Employment Insurance
|
| Mr. Paul Crête |
1755
| Mrs. Raymonde Folco |
(Official Version)
EDITED HANSARD • NUMBER 131
HOUSE OF COMMONS
Wednesday, October 18, 2000
The House met at 2 p.m.
Prayers
1400
[Translation]
The Speaker: As is our practice on Wednesday we will now sing O
Canada, led by the hon. member for St. John's West.
[Editor's Note: Members sang the national anthem]
STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS
[Translation]
GABRIELLE BERTRAND
Mr. Denis Paradis (Brome—Missisquoi, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, today the City of
Cowansville is preparing to pay tribute to an admirable woman
who has made a great contribution to public life and to the
people of Brome—Missisquoi: Gabrielle Bertrand.
From now on, the Cowansville library will bear her name, and
will be known as Bibliothèque Gabrielle Giroux-Bertrand, in
honour of this woman who has given so much of herself to the
life and culture of the community.
Having the honour of knowing this great lady, I will never
forget her determination, humanity, dignity and integrity.
I congratulate the city of Cowansville for this initiative and I
have no doubt that Gabrielle Bertrand will continue to be a
source of inspiration for all those who have had the privilege
of contact with her.
* * *
[English]
THE LIBERAL PARTY OF CANADA
Mr. Leon E. Benoit (Lakeland, Canadian Alliance): Mr.
Speaker, as we apparently get into an election campaign after
less than three and a half years since the last election, let us
look at the Liberals' record on keeping promises.
On taxes, they promised to cut, to scrap, to abolish the GST.
They did not. They did deliver 50 tax increases in the last five
years alone. For the past three years they have promised tax
relief, but have members looked at their pay stubs lately?
On the environment, they promised legislation to protect
endangered species and they failed three times.
On agriculture, they promised farmers $1.9 billion to compensate
for losses due to unfair trade. They have delivered 42%.
On crime, they promised to overhaul the Young Offenders Act.
After seven years they have failed again.
In fact, the biggest crime of all is that this government thinks
Canadians will believe their hollow promises again.
* * *
[Translation]
GOVERNMENT OF QUEBEC
Mr. Guy St-Julien (Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, “Le barrage de la honte”, or “Dam of Shame”, is the
heading journalist Robert Ménard of the Journal de Montréal
gave to his article of October 15, 2000, in which he described
how the government of Lucien Bouchard, through its ministers Paul
Bégin, Rémy Trudel and Jean-Pierre Jolivet, gave permission to
the American company Bowater Pulp and Paper to demolish the Sugar
Loaf dam. This dam, “Pain de sucre” in French, was in the
Clova sector of the Vallée-de-l'Or RCM and was demolished without
public consultation.
Now the Clova River is a total ecological disaster, a graveyard
of logs that were being floated down river and are now just
stranded there.
Such is the accomplishment of these three PQ ministers on the
payroll of the multimillionaire company Bowater, which does not
give a damn about Quebec's environment.
* * *
[English]
HEALTH
Mr. Tony Ianno (Trinity—Spadina, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I
want to thank the leader of the NDP for all the mail she has
recently sent me and my constituents: two letters and a
brochure.
She has sent thousands of pieces of mail to my neighbours. Many
have complained about it.
I know that the NDP is scurrying but it should be honest in
dealing with the dilemma it faces. Her junk mail claims that
privatization of health care threatens Canadian families.
We agree. How can the NDP leader claim that an additional $21
billion from the federal government will privatize health care?
1405
The three NDP premiers strongly supported the health care
agreement. In fact, they demanded it. Is she accusing her NDP
colleagues of threatening Canadian families? If the NDP leader
is going to send junk mail, she should at least make sure that
she does not trash a health care agreement that all three NDP
premiers enthusiastically support. She should be consistent and
responsible. She should decide whether to stand with her NDP
premiers or stand for opportunism.
* * *
CANADIAN INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT AGENCY
Mr. Gurmant Grewal (Surrey Central, Canadian Alliance):
Mr. Speaker, the auditor general has again slammed the Liberal
government for its mismanagement of CIDA.
It has been the same old story about CIDA since 1993. Half of
the contracts over $100,000 were non-competitive. There was an
$8.5 million sole source contract for the Ivory Coast without the
approval document signed by the minister. There was a $6.4
million sole source contract for the Chinese dam project. No
other Canadian firms were allowed to compete. There was a
contract for $13 million to reform Mali's income tax system
without the required conditions and expertise in place, and a
$4.7 million non-competitive contract in Mali, again without the
needed reforms in place. CIDA gave 3,000 contracts of over
$25,000 to individuals, including pensioned public servants,
lacking treasury board approval.
The weak, arrogant Liberal government has no credibility when it
comes to managing Canadian tax dollars. Canadian workers will
hold the Liberals accountable at the ballot box. The Liberals
cannot be trusted to help the poorest of the poor.
* * *
THE LATE RIGHT HON. PIERRE ELLIOT TRUDEAU
Mr. Hec Clouthier (Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, today would have been the birthday of perhaps
Canada's greatest political icon, Pierre Elliott Trudeau.
I am proud to say that Mr. Trudeau and I share the same
birthday, October 18. I am also proud to say that I am a strong
believer in Mr. Trudeau's value system. He cared about all
people. He cared about their health, their housing, their
schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil
liberties.
Pierre Trudeau believed that we could not grow as a country if
we were burdened by old conflicts and old antagonisms of race
against race, region against region, language against language
and ego against ego. He inspired us to build a free, fair, just
and responsible society. His hope and confidence, his compassion
and decency, his understanding and compromise, his style, his
intellect and his passion lifted his people and Canada to a
higher destiny, a new plateau of excellence.
[Translation]
Thank you, Mr. Trudeau. You are one of the brightest stars in
this country's firmament.
* * *
VINCENT MARTEL
Mr. Richard Marceau (Charlesbourg—Jacques-Cartier, BQ): Mr.
Speaker, I am pleased to be the host, today and tomorrow here on
the Hill, of the MP for a day from Charlesbourg—Jacques-Cartier,
Vincent Martel, who will be with us for 24 hours.
Vincent was the big winner in the third MP for a day contest in
the riding of Charlesbourg—Jacques-Cartier. He won out over nearly
1,200 secondary IV students.
During his time in Ottawa, Vincent will have an opportunity to
get acquainted with what MPs do and to see first hand the hectic
lives we lead here on Parliament Hill.
Vincent, who is accompanied by his friend Sably Gagnon, will
have the honour of meeting with our leader and all of the
members of our caucus.
Mr. Speaker, you will also have an opportunity to speak with
this young man tomorrow, before oral question period.
Vincent, on behalf of all of my colleagues in the House of
Commons, welcome to Parliament Hill.
* * *
[English]
GOVERNOR GENERAL'S AWARD
Mrs. Sue Barnes (London West, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it is
with great pride that I rise to congratulate this year's
recipients of the Governor General's award in commemoration of
the Persons case: Yvonne Bourgeois of New Brunswick, Sonia Bitar
of Alberta, Elizabeth Mackenzie of the Northwest Territories,
Sabine Sonnemann of Ontario, Cherry Kingsley of British Columbia,
and Bindu Dhaliwal of Ontario, who received the youth award, a
new award this year.
This past weekend I met with one of the recipients, Ms.
Kingsley. She recounted how through most of her young life she
lived with addiction, abuse and exploitation. At the age of 22
she reconnected with her first nations roots, taking action by
spreading her story and encouraging other young women and youths
to tell their stories. In addition to holding conferences, Ms.
Kingsley now works as a consultant for the Ontario government on
policy matters concerning youth and sexual exploitation within
the province. Her efforts are but one example of how to make a
positive change for women in our communities.
I thank all those remarkable women.
* * *
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THE FAMOUS FIVE
Ms. Val Meredith (South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, Canadian
Alliance): Mr. Speaker, 71 years ago today it became official
that women were officially persons.
As the monument is unveiled today on Parliament Hill for the
Famous Five, I am sure that Emily Murphy, Henrietta Muir Edwards,
Louise McKinney, Nellie McClung and Irene Parlby would appreciate
the irony of Ottawa as the home of this tribute.
For a dozen years the Famous Five battled Ottawa to get
recognized as persons. While the Alberta government ruled that
women were indeed persons, in Ottawa five successive Liberal and
Conservative federal governments refused to change the law. When
the Famous Five got to the supreme court in 1928 they were turned
down there as well. It took a 1929 decision from the British
privy council to finally declare that women were persons.
As we celebrate the Famous Five's accomplishments today, we need
to remember that they achieved what they did despite the federal
government, not because of it.
* * *
THE FAMOUS FIVE
Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, today is
an important anniversary for the women of Canada. Seventy-one
years ago five formidable women won their long fight to have
women recognized as full persons in this land. The Persons case
is a landmark victory in the fight for women's equality.
That the achievements of the Famous Five be recognized on
Parliament Hill through the dedication of a fabulous monument is
fitting. However, the Famous Five would have regarded it as an
even more fitting and lasting tribute for the federal government
to fulfil the 13 feminist dozen demands to end poverty and
violence against women.
This week tens of thousands of women from across Canada marched
on Parliament Hill calling for urgent action. Nellie McClung
once said “No nation rises higher than its women”. It is my
hope that this government will heed that message and finally take
steps to advance true justice and equality for all of the women
of Canada.
* * *
[Translation]
MEMBER FOR LAVAL EAST
Mrs. Maud Debien (Laval East, BQ): Mr. Speaker, last week, I
told voters in Laval East that I will not seek a third mandate
at the next election.
I thank the people from my riding for having put their trust in
me twice. I believe I carried out my mandate by representing
them with dignity, by expressing their concerns and by
protecting their interests and those of all Quebecers.
I also wish to pay tribute to my party, my leader and my
colleagues. I can assure them of my support in the process
that I am sure will lead to Quebec's sovereignty.
My time in this House gave me an opportunity to meet members
from all parties and to have fruitful discussions and debates
with them.
To you, Mr. Speaker, who tried to keep our debates civil, I say
thank you.
To my family, whom I really missed and without whom I would not
have been able to pursue this demanding vocation, I say “Faites
du feu dans la cheminée, je reviens chez nous”.
* * *
[English]
MEMBER FOR NORTHUMBERLAND
Hon. Christine Stewart (Northumberland, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I thank you for recognizing me in the House today for
what I believe might well be my last opportunity. I want to tell
the House today what a privilege and honour it has been to serve
in this place over the last 12 years, to serve the constituents
of my constituency, Northumberland, and in fact to serve all of
the people of this wonderful land, my beloved Canada.
My prayer is that all of my colleagues here today, and those who
come here in the decades ahead, will have the wisdom, the charity
and the generosity of spirit to continue to serve all of the
people of this country and all regions of this country.
Everyone here knows that members of parliament do not come
here on their own merit but with the support of many others. I
wish to take this opportunity to thank, first and foremost, all
of my constituents. I want to thank all of my loyal staff who
have served me so well over the years. Of course I want to thank
all of my colleagues and the Prime Minister here in this House.
Most of all, I want to thank my dear family, some of whom are
present in the House today, my children, Douglas, John and
Catherine, and of course my beloved and very loving husband,
David.
* * *
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THE FAMOUS FIVE
Mrs. Elsie Wayne (Saint John, PC): Mr. Speaker, on this
day 71 years ago, the privy council of Great Britain made an
historic decision that women were in fact persons under the law.
This decision was the result of the tireless efforts of five
Canadian women: Emily Murphy, Nellie McClung, Henrietta Muir
Edwards, Louise McKinney and Irene Parlby.
As the House is well aware, this morning we honoured these
Canadian heroes with a monument of statues benefiting the
importance of their contribution to this great country, but
perhaps the greatest tribute to these courageous patriots is that
today we have a woman governor general, a woman chief of staff of
the supreme court and many women in the House of Commons and the
government's cabinet.
I am proud to serve with the right hon. member for Kings—Hants
who, as prime minister, made it a priority to continue and
enhance work which these brave women began 50 years before him.
In remembering the great accomplishments of the famous five, we
must never forget to thank those who have followed in their
footsteps.
ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
[English]
AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT
Mr. Stockwell Day (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian
Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the auditor general's report, one of
the most scathing in recent memory, talks about one department
alone wasting and mismanaging something like $3 billion per year.
In one year, $3 billion would hire 4,000 doctors, 4,000 nurses
and purchase 500 MRIs.
The auditor general goes on to say that apparently whatever has
been put in place to supposedly fix the problem in fact is
probably not adequate.
If the Prime Minister will not even fix the problem, will he at
least apologize to Canadians for this?
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I do not know where the hon. Leader of the Opposition is
getting those quotations, but I have a quote by the auditor
general that I will read. He says:
—HRDC has initiated quite extraordinary corrective action to
address these serious problems. We concluded that the Department
was on the right track...we did in fact spend a fair bit of
effort to assess the adequacy of their implementation or
corrective action plan and we found that the plan is serious, is
working, and is going in the right direction.
That is a quote from the auditor general.
Mr. Stockwell Day (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian
Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister can be as
selective as he wants. In fact the auditor general continues to
speak about the fact—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
The Speaker: Order, please.
Mr. Stockwell Day: Mr. Speaker, he calls his MPs nervous
nellies and we certainly saw a display of that right there.
It has been pointed out that the Prime Minister, in his own
riding gave a grant to someone who was unqualified to receive a
CIDA grant but who was a close friend of his. This is just one
of a depressing catalogue of things that have not been done
properly by the Prime Minister.
If he will not fix them, as he indicated he will not, will he at
least make Canadians feel a little bit better on the apparent eve
of an election by saying that he is sorry and apologize?
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, it is the hon. Leader of the Opposition who should say
that he is sorry. He made another mistake. That party keeps
making mistakes.
He referred to a grant. It was not a grant. It was a contract
and the contract was $2.5 million, the lowest price. We saved
$2.5 million by giving the contract to the lowest bidder.
Mr. Stockwell Day (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian
Alliance): Mr. Speaker, there was no mistake. The way that
contract went out, it was a grant.
If he will not apologize for all the things the auditor general
has said, will he apologize for what the information commissioner
has said?
1420
He has had a day to think about it. We can all make mistakes.
Three billion dollars a year, it can happen. Canadians are very
forgiving, and I say that sincerely.
On the eve of a possible election call, which he says will be
based on values, does he believe in the value of forgiveness?
Will he just stand and say to Canadians that he is sorry and
apologize?
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, in public administration there are always some problems
for everybody and we try to correct them. I have heard
accusations of very bad things.
When the hon. member was a provincial MLA he was happy to
welcome a $20 million loan guarantee from the Alberta government
to Fletcher Fine Foods in his riding saying that it would create
local jobs. He, like many other MPs, wanted his riding to have
jobs. Unfortunately the deal went bad and the government of
Alberta was left with a bill of $14 million.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
The Speaker: Order, please. The hon. Leader of the
Opposition.
Mr. Stockwell Day (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian
Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister delights in
reviewing my record which is encouraging to me because he may
learn something from my record.
The auditor general talked about the policies I put in place as
the finance minister, which were highly effective, and I received
praise for those.
The main difference between my record of involvement with any
kind of grants, or whatever it may be, is that
none of my involvements have required RCMP investigations, but his
have.
Will he apologize for all those RCMP investigations that have
had to take place?
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, members opposite make accusations by association and so
on. They have no respect. They always talk about dishonesty.
What the auditor general had to say yesterday addresses the
question of dishonesty. “I am quick to point out that we did
not identify any cases of malfeasance by public servants in those
programs. The main factor was an imbalance between the desire
of their department to provide fast service and the need to have
control over the spending of public funds”.
Members opposite have been talking for months about the
boondoggle of $1 billion. The auditor general said that he could
not find any proof of anyone stealing in the department.
Mr. Stockwell Day (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian
Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I guess we have got it all wrong. The
auditor general did say $3 billion worth of spending—
Some hon. members: Hear, hear.
The Speaker: Order, please. We will hear the Leader of
the Opposition's question. The hon. Leader of the Opposition.
Mr. Stockwell Day: Mr. Speaker, I guess we have got it
all wrong. According to the—
Some hon. members: Hear, hear.
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The Speaker: Order, please. With all respect, with the
preamble we have heard, I would ask the hon. Leader of the
Opposition to rephrase his question.
Mr. Stockwell Day: Mr. Speaker, we have seen Pavlov's
dogs before and we are seeing it again.
I guess we have got it wrong. According to the Prime Minister,
the auditor general did not say that he wasted $3 billion. According
to the Prime Minister, I guess the information commissioner did
not say that public servants felt threatened, did not say that the
Prime Minister undermined democracy. I guess we have got it
wrong.
Why does the Prime Minister not just say that we are all wrong,
every media report is wrong and the Canadian public who are
phoning and e-mailing by the thousands are wrong?
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, it is quite evident that the Leader of the Opposition is
speaking too often with Jesse Helms.
It might be very surprising that in order for a Prime Minister,
a francophone from Quebec, to correct the Leader of the
Opposition, I should perhaps invite the House of Commons to stand
up and sing God Save the Queen.
[Translation]
Mr. Gilles Duceppe (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I am
listening to the Prime Minister today and I would have expected
more restraint, less arrogance and cynicism, and a greater sense
of responsibility.
In the wake of the reports from the auditor general and the
information commissioner, which confirm what we have been saying
here for months, how can he justify the unjustifiable?
How can he justify the cronyism, the favouritism, government
mismanagement and his more than questionable conduct in his own
riding?
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
The Speaker: Order, please. I would ask all members to choose
their words very carefully.
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I
would like the Leader of the Bloc Quebecois to stick a little
closer to the truth.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien: Again today, the papers reported that,
in the case of Transélec, the auditor general's staff have
indicated that there had been absolutely no political
interference.
In his report, the auditor general said that an examination of
all these files did not reveal a single person from the public
service—and we, as MPs and ministers, are part of the public
service—and clearly said that there had been absolutely no
wrongdoing by politicians or public servants in any of these
cases.
Mr. Gilles Duceppe (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, BQ): Mr. Speaker, my
words were very carefully chosen. There was no better way to put
it.
If we are going to talk about the truth, the truth is that his
friend, Claude Gauthier, is involved in both the Placeteco and
Transélec scandals. The truth is that there are four RCMP
investigations ongoing in the Prime Minister's riding.
The truth is that it was not $250 that was misspent; millions
have disappeared. The truth is that perhaps this Prime Minister
wants an election before the investigations are concluded,
before the law gets involved. He does not want to know what is
going to happen—
Some hon. members: Hear, hear.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
The Speaker: Order, please.
1430
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I
would like the Leader of the Bloc Quebecois to have the honesty
to say that, in one instance, it was my office that called the
police. I hope he will take this opportunity to do so.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien: Right now, the auditor general has
said that, in the case of Transélec, everything is completely in
order. He said so himself.
When this member was elected, he very clearly promised all Quebecers
they would be in the Parliament of Canada
for one term only. Then it was two terms. All they are
interested in is the federal government's money, because they
are not able to win in Quebec.
Mr. Michel Gauthier (Roberval, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I realize that,
on the eve of an election, it is trying for the Prime Minister
to realize that his score in Quebec will be no more than 20
members. We understand that but we are sorry to say that we are
going to knock him flat in this election.
Members will recall that on February 9 the Prime Minister said
that the whole Human Resources Development Canada scandal
amounted to $250. It was nothing, he said.
Does the Prime Minister, on the eve of the end of his mandate,
not realize that there is a very serious problem in the—
The Speaker: The Right hon. Prime Minister.
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, a
few minutes ago I quoted the auditor general, who said that the
Minister of Human Resources Development had taken the steps
necessary when she put her six point program in place to ensure
that any abuse would be corrected.
He said that one of the department's problems was its desire to
provide very quick service to the public and the fact that files
were not totally complete as the result. However, he said that
no politician or public official had tried to benefit from all
of these transactions or succeeded in doing so. The member
should recognize this if he is at all honest.
Mr. Michel Gauthier (Roberval, BQ): Mr. Speaker, on the subject
of recognizing things, should the Prime Minister not be
recognizing the fact that it was only after some ten
interventions in the House, after he denied it and the Minister
of Human Resources Development denied it, that the government
was forced to face facts and, to avoid totally losing face,
ordered investigations, including an unprecedented four in his own
riding?
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I
know they are incapable of establishing anything clearly and so
they try to make people guilty by association.
The auditor general has said that no official either in
my office, or in the department or any of those involved,
including myself, had any involvement in these files. This is
what the auditor general said and he thanked the minister for
setting up a program that works. He is very satisfied with what
we are doing now. I can see that the Bloc Quebecois is
rather discouraged by the situation.
* * *
[English]
HEALTH
Mr. Bill Blaikie (Winnipeg—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker,
my question is for the Minister of Health. He will be aware
there are reports that the staff of a certain medical treatment
centre in Manitoba, funded by Health Canada, are now not on their
first but on their second cruise ship event this year disguised
as professional development.
I wonder if the Minister of Health could tell us just what on
earth is going on: two cruises in a year in the name of
professional development while the place is shut down and people
who need treatment are not getting it.
Hon. Allan Rock (Minister of Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
I find these allegations just as troubling. I share the member's
concern.
We have been informed orally by the president of the foundation
in question that there was no Health Canada money used for those
purposes. Notwithstanding, I have asked the deputy minister to
carry out a forensic audit.
I can tell the member and I can tell the House that if it is
found that any public money was used for these purposes we will
demand its return.
* * *
1435
TAXATION
Mr. Bill Blaikie (Winnipeg—Transcona, NDP): Mr. Speaker,
I thank the minister for that answer, but it is not only through
government programs that money is wasted. It is also through
various tax loopholes.
The Minister of National Revenue will perhaps be aware that in
the case called project loophole, pursued by a person from
Winnipeg by the name of George Harris, the federal court has now
ruled in his favour, once more in spite of federal government
obstruction on this matter.
Could the minister give us the assurance that the federal
government will stop obstructing this and finally account for how
it allowed a particular family to get away without paying $700
million in taxes?
Hon. Martin Cauchon (Minister of National Revenue and
Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the
Regions of Quebec), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I can say first that
there is no obstruction at all from the agency. Second, it is a
very important matter. It implies some question of
confidentiality, so it concerns each and every taxpayer.
I would like to say as well that the case is pending in court.
We are in the process of proceeding within the timeframe we have
as per the legislation.
* * *
AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT
Right Hon. Joe Clark (Kings—Hants, PC): Mr. Speaker, I
want to pursue the issue of secret deals made by the government
which were raised by the auditor general's report. In particular
I want to refer to Downsview Park. The auditor general said:
Normally, when a new Crown corporation is established with unique
operating characteristics, it receives a mandate from Parliament
through legislation establishing a parent Crown corporation.
Instead in the Downsview case the Prime Minister acted by order
in council. Will he tell the House of Commons what he was trying
to hide when he kept the Downsview corporation away—
The Speaker: The hon. Minister of Public Works.
Hon. Alfonso Gagliano (Minister of Public Works and
Government Services, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we did not try to
hide anything. The creation of this corporation was undertaken
in a manner which was consistent with the role and authority of
parliament as expressed through legislation governing crown
corporations.
Downsview Park does not receive any appropriations from the
Government of Canada. Almost all revenues for the development of
the park are generated by leasing lands adjacent to the park.
Right Hon. Joe Clark (Kings—Hants, PC): Mr. Speaker, the
auditor general says during 1999-2000 national defence spent
approximately $4.8 million. Is that nothing?
My question is for the Minister of National Defence. Because
the auditor general said that those funds were not a valid charge
against the national defence budget, why did the Minister of
National Defence let that money be spent on purposes that were
invalid? Will he stop those practices and get the money back to
national defence?
Hon. Arthur C. Eggleton (Minister of National Defence,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, all those moneys were spent on legitimate
purposes. This property is still in the ownership of the
Department of National Defence. There are defence uses on that
property. There has been for quite a number of years moneys paid
from national defence for the upkeep of those properties to the
corporation responsible for managing the entire site.
There was a sum of money that went through one of the accounts,
a vote 1 account from parliament which was the wrong account.
Funds have stopped going from that account. We have asked for a
business plan, but the funds have all been spent on legitimate
purposes.
* * *
GOVERNMENT OF CANADA
Mr. Stockwell Day (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian
Alliance): Mr. Speaker, people have said to me just get used
to the fact that in question period the Prime Minister will not
respond and he will resort to insults and all kinds of negative
associations. I will never get used to that but I will ask the
questions.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
The Speaker: Order, please. The hon. Leader of the
Opposition.
Mr. Stockwell Day: And so I will ask the question.
The auditor general says things have been done wrongly. The
information commissioner says things have been done wrongly. In
a rare moment of unity all the opposition parties are saying
things have been done wrongly. The media, bless their hearts,
are saying things have been done wrongly. Canadians are saying
things have been done wrongly.
1440
Will the Prime Minister simply stand and either say he has done
nothing wrong or apologize?
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I said and I repeat that with an administration, either
the government of Alberta or the Government of Canada, yes
sometimes there are problems and we try to resolve them.
Let us look at what we have done in the last seven years, look
at the record of this government. When we entered office the
country was bankrupt and there was unemployment.
I will talk to Canadian people about what we have done in the
House of Commons. We will go there. The hon. member challenged
me to talk to the Canadian people. Very soon we will talk to the
Canadian people. They will know the values of the Liberal Party
and that party over there which proposes to eliminate any good
programs that help the poor in Canada.
Mr. Stockwell Day (Leader of the Opposition, Canadian
Alliance): Mr. Speaker, our budget program will help the poor
and will take 1.4 million low income Canadians from having to pay
federal taxes at all. His will not do that.
He talked about administration and doing a few things wrong.
Only a handful of cases were even reviewed by the Prime Minister
in terms of HRD. I think it was 76. It launched 12 RCMP
investigations. Is the RCMP wrong, or will you simply stand and
apologize?
The Speaker: I ask members to direct their questions to
the Chair.
Right Hon. Jean Chrétien (Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, we have had programs. It will be very interesting to go
to the people because we are proud of all these programs.
The Leader of the Opposition said he wants to scrap them. All I
want to know from the Canadian people is whether it was wrong for
us to have spent $48 million every year on literacy programs.
Was it wrong to spend $318 million devoted to training for the
aboriginal community? Was it wrong to spend $334 million for
youth employment programs? Was it wrong to spend $220 million on
programs for people with disabilities? Those people over there
do not care about the poor and the—
The Speaker: The hon. member for Repentigny.
[Translation]
Mr. Benoît Sauvageau (Repentigny, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the dark
saga is still unfolding.
In his report, the auditor general mentions a blatant case of
patronage. I am referring to Groupe SM, which was awarded a CIDA
contract without going through the bidding process, which is in
violation of the rules.
Does the Minister for International Cooperation justify this
preferential treatment by the fact that between 1994 and 1999
Groupe SM contributed $90,000 to the Liberal Party of Canada?
The Speaker: The question is out of order.
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
The Speaker: The hon. member for Repentigny may put his
supplementary.
Mr. Benoît Sauvageau (Repentigny, BQ): Mr. Speaker, this is
quite the coincidence. Here is another example of how the
government is controlling information.
The Bloc Quebecois has been trying for months to get
information through the access to information process. In spite
of repeated requests, complaints and questions in the House, we
had to wait for the release of the auditor general's report to
know what is really going on.
Does the minister feel that it is not in the public's interest
to shed more light on this case of patronage?
[English]
Hon. Maria Minna (Minister for International Cooperation,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I do not know from where the member gets
his information. First, all the access to information requests
are dealt with as expeditiously as possible.
1445
Second, CIDA has a competitive system which we introduced in
1996 which was not in existence prior to our government coming
to power. According to the auditor general, CIDA has made
efforts to make its selection process for competitive contracts
more fair and transparent under our government.
Mrs. Diane Ablonczy (Calgary—Nose Hill, Canadian
Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the fact is that the Liberal record
on HRDC is completely shameful. When the Liberals took office in
1993 they knew there were deep management problems in that
department. A new audit in 1994 confirmed that. Just yesterday
the Auditor General of Canada found more of the same, and I
quote: “We found widespread problems. We found that controls
had broken down”. He said that public money had been put at
risk.
How can Canadians trust a Liberal government that let this mess
get worse year after year?
Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I must use this question to clarify
something very important.
Time and again the leader of the Alliance Party has said that $3
billion has been wasted and that has been repeated by his party's
members. I want the House to understand that when he says that
he is saying that the $15 million we invest every year for the
Canada student loans program is a waste. He is saying that the
$1 billion we transfer to the provinces every year for labour
market training is a waste. He is saying that the $100 million
we invest in communities across the country for homelessness is a
waste.
Members of that party will either stand up and say that they
will cut these programs or they will come clean and say they do
not know what they are talking about.
Mrs. Diane Ablonczy (Calgary—Nose Hill, Canadian
Alliance): Mr. Speaker, is that not interesting? The auditor
general yesterday had something to say about that kind of answer.
He said “The government has continued to understate the
problem”. He confirmed that his findings of widespread
mismanagement went beyond the problems we already knew about.
Are misleading, hiding the truth, and grossly mismanaging public
funds the real Liberal values?
Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, what the auditor general did say is that
the actions and plans address the deficiencies that we found in
our audit. He writes that the “commitments in the action plan
are being met” and that “corrective actions go beyond the six
point plan”. He said that HRDC has corrective actions planned
and being implemented in response to the problems identified in
its 1999 internal audit and “the actions and plans also address
the deficiencies we found in our audit”.
* * *
[Translation]
EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
Mr. Paul Crête (Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques,
BQ): Mr. Speaker, the government is trying to take advantage of
Bill C-44 amending the employment insurance program to slip by
us a clause that would enable the government to divert for its
own purposes the employment insurance fund surplus which does
not belong to it.
Can the Prime Minister explain to the House how he can justify
to employees and employers this attempt to legalize a hold-up of
the employment insurance fund?
[English]
Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member feels so strongly, as
do we, about the issues involved in Bill C-44, he would join with
us and pass the bill as quickly as possible.
[Translation]
Mr. Paul Crête (Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques,
BQ): Mr. Speaker, the minister and the Prime Minister would like
to see Bill C-44 passed quickly. We have no problem with that
if the purpose is to do the right thing for the unemployed.
My question is a simple one: Are they prepared to withdraw this
clause which will enable them to get their hands on the
employment insurance surplus so that we can get this bill
through quickly, in a single day if need be?
[English]
Hon. Jane Stewart (Minister of Human Resources Development,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Standing Committee on Finance and the
auditor general have asked us to clarify how premiums are
calculated. In the bill we have committed to do just that. In
the interim, to ensure stability, we have identified the premium
reduction for this year and the governor in council will do it
next year.
* * *
1450
ECONOMIC STATEMENT
Mr. John Williams (St. Albert, Canadian Alliance): Mr.
Speaker, the Minister of Finance has gone back to his creative
accounting tricks but was caught yesterday by the auditor
general. The auditor general said that the five year tax
reduction plan announced in the last budget was overstated by $7
billion. The tax reduction is just not there.
My question is for the Minister of Finance. If the auditor
general says the numbers do not add up, why should Canadians
think that the numbers that will be presented this afternoon will
add up?
Hon. Jim Peterson (Secretary of State (International
Financial Institutions), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am sure if the
auditor general had the opportunity to look at the economic
statement put out by the official opposition, he would have
verified that there is about a $25 billion black hole there which
is totally unaccounted for.
I would suggest that hon. members wait for
about 65 minutes. In a few minutes we will be hearing directly
from the minister on this very important announcement affecting
all Canadians.
Mr. John Williams (St. Albert, Canadian Alliance): Mr.
Speaker, the auditor general said yesterday there was a $7
billion overstatement in the tax reduction and the way that he
presents his numbers are suspect. The auditor general said “In
our opinion, this results in misleading financial disclosure”.
It is a serious indictment. Why should taxpayers believe the
numbers this afternoon, when the auditor general said that the
last ones do not add up?
Hon. Jim Peterson (Secretary of State (International
Financial Institutions), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the minister
will be tabling an economic statement which will, unlike the
opposition, show timing, show exact numbers. They will all be
there respecting Canadians' right to see what is open and what is
evident. Unlike the opposition we are not going to hide and we
are not going to fudge on the figures.
* * *
[Translation]
SHIPBUILDING
Mr. Antoine Dubé (Lévis-et-Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
we are seeing the end of the Liberal regime at this time.
The government has had seven years to meet its commitments. Among
those it has not met is one it has neglected right from the very
beginning of its mandate toward the shipyards.
Has the Prime Minister asked his Minister of Finance to include
in the mini-budget he will be bringing down this afternoon the
appropriate measures which Canada's shipbuilding industry has
been awaiting for years now?
[English]
Hon. Jim Peterson (Secretary of State (International
Financial Institutions), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it would be
unforgivable for me to scoop the finance minister. I value my
life and my friendship too much. I shall not do it.
* * *
HEALTH
Mr. Mauril Bélanger (Ottawa—Vanier, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
my question is for the Minister of Health. A few months ago
Health Canada issued an advisory that the drug known as Prepulsid
would no longer be available to Canadians from pharmacies by
summer's end. It also said that patients who do not respond to
alternative therapies could obtain it through a special access
program. Yet today patients who need this drug cannot access it,
cannot obtain it. My question is why? What is Health Canada
doing about this?
Hon. Allan Rock (Minister of Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
in May of this year Health Canada took this particular drug off
the market because of reported difficulties with cardiac
problems.
We recognize that there are some Canadians who do not respond to
alternative treatments or therapies. Health Canada is doing two
things. First of all, it is trying to persuade the manufacturer
to make it available on special access requests. So far it has
not but discussions continue. Second, we have identified a
generic form of the drug, Cisapride, that can also treat serious
gastrointestinal conditions. I am happy to announce that a source
of Cisapride has been identified and authorized release from this
source is currently in progress.
* * *
AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT
Mr. Richard M. Harris (Prince George—Bulkley Valley,
Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, the auditor general's report
says that the budget plan 2000 amounted to a misleading financial
disclosure.
Since the auditor general condemns the last budget as being error
ridden and rife with misconceptions, tax cut overstatements and
spending understatements, will the Prime Minister admit that his
Liberal budget creations have everything to do with
electioneering and very little to do with truth?
1455
The Speaker: My colleagues, please stay away from words
which might incite us. Please do that.
Hon. Jim Peterson (Secretary of State (International
Financial Institutions), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, for a party
which has said that it was going to bring a new sense of respect
toward all Canadians, it is not respecting Canadians when it
brings out its economic statements and it will not put figures to
it and will not put a timeline to it. That is not respect.
Mr. Richard M. Harris (Prince George—Bulkley Valley,
Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, here is the respect the
Liberal government has for Canadian taxpayers: weaknesses in
contribution agreements; amendments made without supporting
rationale; payments made for ineligible costs and expenses; and
payments made without having claims submitted. This is
taxpayers' money. On top of that there is the building of
fountains in the Prime Minister's riding.
How can the government talk about respect when the Liberals have
earned nothing, no measure of respect? They are suspect. There
has been no measure of respect in seven years of governing this
country.
Hon. Jim Peterson (Secretary of State (International
Financial Institutions), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would simply
invite Canadians to compare the economic program that will be put
forward in a couple of minutes by our finance minister with that
put forward by the official opposition to see who is really
respecting the rights of all Canadians and not just the elite.
* * *
[Translation]
ECONOMIC POLICY
Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie—Bathurst, NDP): Mr. Speaker, today the
Minister of Finance will be bringing down a mini-budget in
preparation for a possible election.
My question is for the Prime Minister. Will the money for this
mini-budget to woo Canadian voters come from unemployed Canadian
workers, from the much talked about EI surplus?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): No, Mr. Speaker.
The Minister of Finance's statement will help the
unemployed and all Canadians. I ask that all members support
this fine initiative for the betterment of the Canadian people.
* * *
[English]
POVERTY
Ms. Libby Davies (Vancouver East, NDP): Mr. Speaker, a
few minutes ago the Prime Minister said the Alliance did not care
about poverty. I want to say that the Prime Minister has nothing
to crow about. The public records clearly show that poverty and
homelessness have become tragic growth industries under this
Liberal watch. There is a very clear choice here. Is it
shovelling out huge tax cuts to the corporate elite or is it
funding our basic human needs to shelter?
I would like to ask the Prime Minister how does he defend his
government's shameless choice of billions for the few and crumbs
for the many? How does he defend that?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the crumbs are in the unsupported insinuations of the
hon. member's question.
The fact is that we have been spending billions of dollars to
help the least well off in our country through programs like the
national child benefit and our $700 million program for the
homeless. We are helping the least well off in this country and
we will continue to do so even if the NDP does not know how to
help bring about those results.
* * *
AUDITOR GENERAL'S REPORT
Right Hon. Joe Clark (Kings—Hants, PC): Mr. Speaker, my
question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.
Earlier in the House the Minister of Public Works and Government
Services said that no public money was being spent on Downsview
Park. Then the Minister of National Defence admitted money was
being spent by national defence.
Will the Deputy Prime Minister tell me which minister is telling
the truth?
Some hon. members: Oh, oh.
1500
The Speaker: Order, please. I find the words used might
be a little toned down. If the government would like to respond
I will permit it.
Hon. Alfonso Gagliano (Minister of Public Works and
Government Services, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the only money being
received from the government are reimbursements, like the Minister of
Defence said before, from DND as Canada Lands managed the
commissioning of the size. Maybe if the hon. leader of the
Conservative Party did a little bit of research he would have
found that out.
* * *
VETERANS AFFAIRS
Mrs. Elsie Wayne (Saint John, PC): Mr. Speaker, my
question is for the Minister of Veterans Affairs.
Will the minister commit to the House today that every eligible
merchant navy veteran or surviving spouse will receive their full
100% compensation package owed to them as guaranteed by the
previous Minister of Veterans Affairs?
Hon. Ronald J. Duhamel (Minister of Veterans Affairs and
Secretary of State (Western Economic Diversification)
(Francophonie), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this new Minister of
Veterans Affairs wants to compliment my predecessor for the
excellent work he has done.
I also want to assure the House that whatever commitments he has
made I will try to respect.
* * *
PRESENCE IN GALLERY
The Speaker: I would like to draw members attention
to the presence in our gallery of the hon. Milos Kuvzart,
Minister of the Environment of the Czech Republic.
Some hon. members: Hear, hear.
The Speaker: Earlier today many of you will have taken
part in the unveiling of the statue of the five women who won the
Persons Case. With us today in our Chamber are the recipients
of the Governor General's award in commemoration of the Persons
Case. I would like you to hold your applause until I have
introduced them all.
I would ask them, as I call their names, to please stand: Sonia
Bitar of Edmonton, Alberta; Yvonne Bourgeois of Kent, New
Brunswick; Bindu Dhaliwal of Mississauga, Ontario; Cherry
Kingsley of Richmond, B.C.; Elizabeth McKenzie of Rae, NWT;
Sabine Sonnemann of Newmarket, Ontario.
Some hon. members: Hear, hear.
* * *
1505
[Translation]
POINTS OF ORDER
ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
Mr. Benoît Sauvageau (Repentigny, BQ): Mr. Speaker, earlier I
put a question to the government and to my great surprise you
ruled the question out of order.
I would still like an answer so I will put the question to you
because the figures I wished to give come from the report on
party financing.
The report on party financing is a public report. According to
the report of the chief electoral officer, Groupe SM donated
$1,098 to the Liberal Party in 1993; $4,379 in 1994; $232 in
1995; $7,000 in 1997; $955 in 1998; and $22,000 in 1999.
The Speaker: Order, please. I must remind the hon. member that
here in the House we may not ask questions about political
parties.
That is the kind of question I heard and my ruling stands.
Mr. Michel Gauthier (Roberval, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of
order. I want to understand and I am not contesting your ruling,
but we simply want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.
In the past on a number of occasions if I remember correctly,
we have put questions to the government on various matters
linking the government's decision to partisan action, such as in
the case of a contribution to the party in office. In all these
cases the Chair allowed these questions.
Before you rise, I would simply like to point out that there is
a problem. We cannot obtain information because documents
are no longer circulating. We cannot obtain satisfaction
because the information commissioner is stymied. We can no
longer ask questions in the House of Commons. I do not know how
to proceed.
The Speaker: I cannot tell the hon. member how to phrase a
question. But questions about political parties and
contributions are not in order in the House of Commons.
Therefore, as I said, hon. members have to ask questions that
are in order. That is the end of this point of order.
Mr. Stéphane Bergeron: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Far be
it from me also to wish to oppose your decision in any way.
I would respectfully request that you read the blues and listen
to the recording of this portion of oral question period.
Listening to the preamble and to the question, at least the
portion of the question we are able to hear, it will be clearly
seen that it is a matter of a government decision.
The Speaker: I will review what went on and what was said. I
will get back to the House on this, if necessary.
1510
Mr. Antoine Dubé: Mr. Speaker, I rise also on a point of order. Since
the hon. member for York South—Weston indicated he would be
unable to present his motion during private members' business
today, I would seek unanimous consent, notwithstanding any
standing order, for the House to proceed today at the end of
government orders to examination of Bill C-213 at the report
stage and, if possible, to move on to third reading of this
bill.
The Speaker: Is there unanimous consent to proceed in this
fashion?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
Some hon. members: No.
* * *
[English]
PARLIAMENTARY DELEGATION REPORT
The Speaker: I have the honour to present to the House
the report of a parliamentary delegation I led which visited
Israel from May 21 to 24, 2000 at the invitation of the Knesset;
and the West Bank and Gaza from May 24 to 28, 2000 at the
invitation of the Palestinian Legislative Council.
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
[English]
HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL DAY ACT
Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (Winnipeg North Centre, NDP) moved
for leave to introduce Bill C-510, an act to establish the
Holocaust Memorial Day.
She said: Mr. Speaker, it is my honour to introduce an act to
establish the Holocaust memorial day. Many of us in the House
have been touched in some way by the horrors of the Holocaust.
For me it was a recent pilgrimage marking the 55th anniversary of
the liberation of Holland and a visit to Camp Westerbork where
the Dutch Jewish population was sent on route to the death camps.
In total, six million Jewish men, women and children perished as
the result of a deliberate and planned state sponsored
persecution and annihilation of European Jewry by the Nazis and
their collaborators between 1933 and 1945.
The bill proposes to establish a national, annual Holocaust
memorial day to be called Yom haShoah. Why do we need this as a
nation? It is because the terrible destruction and pain of the
Holocaust must never be forgotten. It is because systematic
violence, racism and hatred continue to occur. It is because as
a parliament we must do everything to uphold human rights and
value the diversity and multiculturalism of Canadian society.
It is because this part of our history must never be allowed to
repeat itself.
(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and
printed)
* * *
PETITIONS
THE ENVIRONMENT
Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have
a petition from people in Peterborough who believe that rural
Canada is not a dumping ground for urban garbage.
The petitioners point out that reduce, reuse and recycle is the
only way to deal with garbage. They point out that northern
Ontario deserves respect. They call upon parliament to do all in
its power to stop the dumping of Toronto's garbage in the Adams
mine in Kirkland Lake.
MOUNT LOGAN
Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my
second petition is from petitioners who point out that Pierre
Elliott Trudeau deserves respect for his contributions to Canada
and that ideas for his commemoration are still being developed.
The petitioners point out that Mr. William Logan, after whom
Mount Logan was named, also deserves respect. They urge
parliament to work to put a hold on efforts to rename Mount Logan
until such time that this and other suggestions concerning
memorials for Pierre Trudeau have been properly assessed.
1515
EPILEPSY
Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my
last petition concerns epilepsy. The petitioners point out that
epilepsy is the most common serious brain disorder in Canada.
There is a great deal of misunderstanding about this disease
which does great harm to those suffering from it.
The petitioners call upon parliament to help launch a national
campaign to raise public awareness of epilepsy and first aid
procedures.
CANADA POST
Mr. Peter Mancini (Sydney—Victoria, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I
have the honour to present to the House a petition signed by over
3,000 people from the community of North Sydney.
The petition deals with Canada Post's announced intention to
close the North Sydney postal terminal and transfer its functions
to an operation in Moncton. The petitioners call upon parliament
to ensure that Canada Post does not close this terminal.
CHILD POVERTY
Ms. Paddy Torsney (Burlington, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have
two sets of petitions to present. The first one is from 25
constituents asking parliament to use the federal budget and
other measures to introduce a multi-year plan to improve the
well-being of Canada's children. There are far too many children
in Canada living in poverty.
CHECHNYA
Ms. Paddy Torsney (Burlington, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, in the
second petition I have 1,200 names of Canadians from across the
GTA who are petitioning parliament to immediately suspend all
forms of Canadian monetary assistance to Russia until it removes
all its forces from Chechnya to give the people there a chance
to realize their gains.
The petitioners would like to see a decisive and complete stop
to aggression in Chechnya by the Russian government.
[Translation]
CANADIAN RADIO-TELEVISION AND COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
Mr. Jean-Guy Chrétien (Frontenac—Mégantic, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I
have the honour to present a petition supported by close to
1,000 residents of the Thetford Mines region.
These petitioners back Mr. Dominique Huot in calling for the
CRTC to regulate the volume of television advertisements so that
the number of decibels remains uniform. This regulation would
provide some peace and quiet to the public, especially its older
members.
Needless to say, I support these signatories and encourage their
organizer, Mr. Huot, to continue his battle to have some peace
and quiet in our living rooms.
[English]
HEALTH CARE
Mr. John Solomon (Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, NDP):
Pursuant to Standing Order 36, Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to
present a petition from many Canadians.
These people are very unhappy with the Liberal cuts to health
care. They are unhappy with the $30 billion we have lost in
health care funding from the federal government. They are
especially unhappy with the $700 million in lost revenue at the
federal level in Saskatchewan. They are opposed to the Liberals
and the Alliance driving our health care system toward the
American style privatized system.
The petitioners are asking parliament to stop for profit
hospitals and restore federal funding of health care, to increase
the federal government's share of health care funding to 25%
immediately, and to implement national prescription drug and home
care programs.
CRIMINAL CODE
Mr. John Solomon (Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, NDP): Mr.
Speaker, the second petition is from constituents and other
Canadians who are unhappy with the Liberal feel good
legislation that has done nothing to protect our communities from
criminals.
The petitioners are calling upon the Government of Canada to
amend the Criminal Code of Canada to prevent persons convicted of
serious crimes from being released from custody pending the
hearing of their appeal except in exceptional circumstances.
They are also calling upon the government to spend a bit more
money on securing our communities by sinking more cash into both
the RCMP and local police forces.
MAMMOGRAPHY
Ms. Susan Whelan (Essex, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have three
petitions to present pursuant to Standing Order 36. The first
one is on behalf of the constituents of Essex.
The petition concerns the establishment of an independent body
for the purposes of developing, implementing and enforcing
uniform and mandatory quality assurance and control standards for
mammography.
ABORTION
Ms. Susan Whelan (Essex, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the second
petition requests updated national abortion statistics for Canada
in order to determine the effect of this procedure on the health
of women.
CHILD POVERTY
Ms. Susan Whelan (Essex, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the third
petition is on behalf of the constituents of Windsor West and
requests that an allocation of funds be dedicated to improving
the lives of Canadian children in poverty.
HEALTH CARE
Ms. Judy Wasylycia-Leis (Winnipeg North Centre, NDP): Mr.
Speaker, I am very pleased and privileged to be able to present
three petitions signed by hundreds of constituents of Winnipeg
North Centre and other residents of Winnipeg, Manitoba.
All the petitioners are deeply concerned about the state of our
health care today. They call upon the government to take
immediate steps to ensure that all Canadians, regardless of where
they live or how much they earn, have access to quality, public,
and universal health care.
1520
The petitioners specifically call upon the government to
immediately increase the federal share of health funding to 25%
and to implement national programs for home care and prescription
drugs.
[Translation]
THE ENVIRONMENT
Mr. Daniel Turp (Beauharnois—Salaberry, BQ): Mr. Speaker, it is
my pleasure to present a petition on behalf of the residents of
my riding asking parliament to have Environment Canada do an
environmental assessment of the proposal by Material Resource
Recovery SRBP, Inc. to burn PCBs and pharmaceutical products in
its Cornwall incinerator.
The petitioners also request that the department reinstate
funding for the Saint-Anicet atmospheric environment station in
order to measure the pollutants that might be emitted from the
Cornwall incinerator.
* * *
QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER
Mr. Derek Lee (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I move
that all questions be allowed to stand.
The Speaker: Is that agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
* * *
[English]
MOTIONS FOR PAPERS
Mr. Derek Lee (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I ask
that all Notices of Motions for the Production of Papers be
allowed to stand.
The Speaker: Is it agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
* * *
[Translation]
REQUEST FOR EMERGENCY DEBATE
INFORMATION COMMISSIONER'S REPORT
The Speaker: I have received a letter from the hon. member for
Roberval on the subject of a request for an emergency debate.
Perhaps the hon. member could explain what he wants.
Mr. Michel Gauthier (Roberval, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I will be
fairly brief. I simply wish to say that yesterday the annual
report of the information commissioner, who reports to the House
of Commons, was released.
In a number of spots in this report, and in particular on page
10, the following appears, and I quote:
The Privy Council Office is the Prime Minister's department.
Given the extremely serious allegations made by the information
commissioner, and given that members of the House of Commons
are, as it were, the immediate superiors of this senior
official who is complaining about the operation of the
government, as well as about relations with the Prime Minister's
department, it seems to me that we should be able to debate this
matter with all due haste.
This is the first opportunity I have had to ask the Chair
that we be allowed to debate the report in the House tonight,
determine just what it is all about and take any necessary
action. That is why I am making this request.
The Speaker: Order, please. As the hon. member pointed out, all
requests for emergency debates concern very serious matters.
However, it seems to me that his request does not meet the
requirements and criteria for such a debate at this time.
GOVERNMENT ORDERS
1525
[Translation]
ECONOMIC POLICY
Hon. Paul Martin (Minister of Finance, Lib.) moved:
He said: Mr. Speaker, I wish to table a notice of ways and means
motion and I ask that an order of the day be designated for
consideration of the motion.
[English]
A little more than eight months ago we presented the first
budget of the new millennium. It was a budget that invested in
health, education, the environment and children. It was a budget
that introduced the most important structural changes to the tax
system in decades. It was a budget that provided the largest tax
cuts in 25 years.
At that time we said that we hoped to go even further in the
future. What I would like to do today is to build on that budget
and to confirm because of our strong economic growth that we can
indeed go further.
Canada begins the 21st century in a position of renewed
strength, with greater resources and more choices than we have
had in many decades. Our nation's success has been written by
many hands. That success is a tribute to the hard working men
and women of this country and a tribute to their effort and
commitment. It is as a result of their dedication that a future
once beyond our imagination is now within our grasp.
However, seizing that future will depend on the choices we make
now. Ours must be a vision which understands that in an era of
globalization it is more important than ever to have a national
perspective, one based on the aspirations of all Canadians. It
must be a vision that sees Canadian society as more than a
collection of competing interests. It must understand that, yes,
we have as stewards a responsibility to manage our finances
wisely, but we also have as citizens an obligation to one
another.
[Translation]
Our country's recent economic performance has been striking.
The last three months marked the 20th consecutive quarter of
growth, the longest sustained period of gain since the mid-1960s.
Our current account is in the largest surplus position in its
history. Our foreign indebtedness, as a percentage of our
economy, is at its lowest level in more than 20 years.
In the last 12 months Canadians have created more than 360,000
new jobs. Our unemployment rate has fallen to 6.8%, approaching
its lowest level in 24 years.
And as a result, for the third year in a row Canada has the
best job creation rate of any G-7 country.
In the crucial area of productivity our rate of growth for this
year is almost twice the average of the last 10 years.
Even more importantly, Canadians are starting to see their real
per capita disposable incomes rise, leaving more money in their
pockets at the end of each month. In many ways, this is the true
test of any economic program, the surest touchstone of real
economic progress.
Rising disposable incomes mean that more and more Canadians
are participating in our nation's prosperity and that the progress
we have made in our nation's finances is beginning to make a
real difference in the finances of Canadian families.
1530
[English]
All in all Canada's economic record of recent years is one of
which we can be proud. That being said, the purpose of today's
statement is not to talk about where we have been but about where
we must go because far more important than the progress of the
past are our prospects for the future.
In planning for next year and beyond, the government has once
again asked the chief economists of Canada's major chartered
banks in four leading forecasting firms to develop economic and
fiscal projections.
On behalf of the government, I want to thank all of those who
participated in the exercise. Their contribution was invaluable
and ensured that the fiscal projections we make for planning
purposes are based on the most rigorous possible analysis.
The results are as follows: First, the average private sector
forecast is for our economy to grow by 4.7% this year, 3.5% next
year and roughly 3% thereafter. Second, based on these
forecasts, and after adjusting for the contingency reserve and
prudence, and also after deducting the amounts arising out of the
recent agreements on health and early childhood development, the
average of the economic forecasts for the planning surplus is as
follows: for the year 2000, $12.2 billion; for 2001, $10.9
billion; for 2002, $11.5 billion; for 2003, $11.3 billion; for
2004, $7 billion; and for the year 2005-06, a planning surplus of
$10.7 billion.
These are encouraging numbers but make no mistake, these
surpluses are not a licence to spend freely. Rather, they are an
opportunity to choose wisely. They represent a chance to improve
the lives of Canadians and to increase the flexibility we will
need to succeed in the new economy.
The question we therefore have to address is, on the basis of
these planning surplus projections, what is the proper balance
among paying down debt, reducing taxes and making key
investments?
[Translation]
The question, therefore, we have to address is, on the basis of
these planning surplus projections, what is the proper balance
among paying down debt, reducing taxes and making key
investments?
That is why we require a plan, a long-term plan. One that
understands the economy of today, but even more importantly,
recognizes the changes we need to make for tomorrow. There can
be no doubt that we are in the early stages of an unprecedented
revolution, of a new economy founded on a cascade of
technological breakthroughs, in a world without frontiers.
Only a few countries will become the leaders in this new world.
We want Canada to be one of them.
For this to happen Canada needs to be at the forefront of
technological change, the first to corner untapped markets. We
should be the standard by which other nations measure
themselves. We must be an economy of innovation, not
replication. As well, ours must be a society that recognizes
that success begins with equality of opportunity.
[English]
Our goal cannot simply be to put up better economic numbers. It
must be to lift up greater numbers of people, to provide the kind
of strong foundation on which Canadians can build better lives.
That is why our plan advances on four crucial fronts.
First is investing in the social fabric of this country, in
health care and in other areas that reflect the responsibility
Canadians feel to one another.
Second is strengthening education, research and innovation, for
in a knowledge economy these are the surest paths to success.
Third is paying down the debt because we owe it to our
children.
Fourth is reducing taxes because Canadians deserve to keep more
of what they earn.
1535
A successful plan strikes the right balance across a broad array
of choices. On the one hand, Canadians demand that their tax
dollars be managed with the same care with which they handle
their own personal finances, and they are right to do so.
Therefore let there be no doubt, we will continue to be frugal.
Over the next five years we will hold the rate of growth in
program spending to less than the rate of growth in the economy.
On the other hand, Canadians want us to invest in those areas
that matter most. Governments are judged by the priorities they
set and our priorities have been clear. From the time we
balanced the books in 1997-98 and including the measures we are
introducing today, almost three-quarters, 75%, of our new
spending has been devoted to health care, to children and to
education. These are the priorities of Canadians and these are
the right priorities, for a country is not a balance sheet, it is
the embodiment of the hopes and the dreams of its people.
Nothing is more fundamental to Canadians than quality health
care. Nothing speaks more clearly to the collective
responsibility we have to one another. That is why the agreement
reached last month by the Prime Minister and the premiers to
renew health care is so important.
The federal commitment to this agreement is $23.4 billion, one
of the largest single expenditures by any Canadian government in
our nation's history. Of this, $1 billion will be invested in
much needed medical equipment such as MRIs and CAT scanners and
$21.1 billion will be added to the Canada health and social
transfer, this so that the provinces and the territories can
accelerate the changes necessary to ensure that Canadians receive
the high quality health care they deserve, to increase the
number of doctors and nurses, to shorten waiting lists and to
reduce the time spent in emergency rooms.
Another area where government must spend to ensure the health of
its citizens is the environment. The quality of our individual
lives is deeply rooted in the quality of the environment we
share, in clear air and in clean water. That is why in our last
budget we set aside $700 million for environmental initiatives.
It is why the plan set out today incorporates the recent
announcement of an additional $500 million to address the key
challenges of climate change and air pollution, bringing our
total investment in environmental measures this year alone to
$1.2 billion.
[Translation]
We have spoken of the need to become a nation that excels at
innovation, of the need to be leaders in the new economy. For
this to become a reality, all levels of government and all
sectors of society must come together to ensure that knowledge
in school, in the workplace and in all of its many facets, is at
the very heart of the national agenda.
Make no mistake, success in the new economy will not be
determined by technology alone, but by creating an environment
of excellence in which Canadians can take advantage of their
talents, their skills and their ideas.
This begins at the earliest age. That is why $2.2 billion was
aimed specifically at early childhood development. These
resources are to be used by provinces and territories to invest
in promoting healthy pregnancies, birth and infancy.
They are to be devoted to pre-school programs and child care,
family support and parent information. With this funding in
place we can help ensure that our young children get the best
possible start in life and arrive at school ready, and able, to
learn. Children prepared to learn become adults equipped to
succeed.
1540
[English]
Ensuring that Canadians enjoy the best learning and research
opportunities here in Canada has been a priority in each of our
last four budgets. Today we will do more. Canadian students
rely on the education tax credit to offset the cost of books,
lodging and other expenses. As recently as 1995 the amount on
which the credit was based was $80 per month. Over the past
number of years we have raised it to $200. Today we will go
further. This January we will double that amount to $400 a
month. This will put an additional $1 billion into the hands of
one million students over the next five years.
Over the past four years the government has introduced an
unprecedented series of strategic initiatives to rebuild the
research infrastructure of our universities in order to attract
and retain the best minds and to expand their opportunities here
in Canada.
Whether it is the Canada research chairs, Genome Canada, the
Canadian Institutes of Health Research or the Canada Foundation
for Innovation, we want Canadians to be able to do world class
research right here in Canada. Therefore, to reinforce Canada's
capacity to be a global player in cutting edge research, the
Canada Foundation for Innovation will allocate up to $100 million
of the funding it received in budget 2000 to support the capital
costs in Canada of several large collaborative projects involving
Canadian universities and facilities around the world.
Next, one of the key requirements for effective world class
research is establishing the critical mass necessary for success.
Therefore, in order to build the cluster of leading researchers
that Canada needs, the CFI will allocate $250 million of the
funding set out in budget 2000 to provide new infrastructure
support for each recipient of a Canada research chair. This will
be provided in a way that helps smaller universities so that the
benefits will be more evenly distributed across the country.
Next and most important, we are announcing today $500 million in
new funding for the Canada Foundation for Innovation, $400
million of which will allow it to assist universities and
research hospitals to meet the operating costs associated with
new research facilities provided by the foundation, and $100
million to help Canadian researchers participate in leading edge
international projects, because doing their best research means
being able to collaborate with the best scientists from around
the world and from a strong Canadian base.
Finally, if Canada is to be a leader in the new economy, we need
to understand its opportunities and how to seize them, its
educational requirements and how to meet them, its management
skills and how to develop them. More, we need to make lifelong
learning a reality. To these ends, we are announcing today a
special allocation of $100 million over the next five years to
the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council, so that
Canada will be at the forefront of this vital research into the
new knowledge economy.
[Translation]
One of the most important steps we can take to ensure a better
future for our children is to reduce the burden of debt on their
shoulders.
For more than a generation, Canada's debt-to-GDP ratio rose
relentlessly. Over the past four years, however, both as a
result of our debt repayment plan and a growing economy, that
ratio has been falling from a peak of 71% in 1995-96 to about 59%
today. This is the steepest decline among all G-7 countries.
1545
We must continue on that downward track and we will. Indeed, as a
result of the actions we are taking today we project that
Canada will reach a debt to GDP ratio of about 40% within the
next four years.
[English]
A few weeks ago we announced a $12.3 billion paydown of our
national debt for the year 1999-2000, bringing the total debt
reduction over the past three years to more than $18.7 billion.
Today and going forward, the government is adding a new element
to its debt repayment plan. We will continue the practice of
setting aside $3 billion as a contingency reserve. However each
fall from now on we will announce whether a greater amount should
be dedicated to that year's debt paydown.
In some years we will be able to do so. In other years we will
not. It will depend on the economic circumstances of the day.
When times are good Canadians pay down their credit cards.
Similarly, when times are good governments should pay down debt.
Therefore, we are announcing today that for this year, 2000-01,
we will pay down a minimum of $10 billion in debt. This means
that over the last four years we will have reduced the national
debt by $28.7 billion, resulting in interest savings of $1.7
billion for each and every year going forward, money that will
now be available to meet the priorities of Canadians.
[Translation]
I am announcing today that for this year we will pay down
a minimum of $10 billion dollars of debt. This means that over the
last four years we will have reduced the national debt by over
$28.7 billion, resulting in interest savings of $1.7 billion for
each and every year going forward. This is money that will now be
available to meet the priorities of Canadians.
Let me now turn to taxes. Our tax plan is designed with the
following objectives in mind:
First, providing tax relief to all Canadians but to moderate and
middle income families in particular.
Second, helping those who need it most through a number of
general and targeted measures.
Third, promoting job creation and economic growth to give
Canada and Canadians an advantage in the new economy.
Even more importantly, our plan will achieve these objectives by
legislating, not promising, the largest tax cut in Canadian
history,
and by bringing our measures into effect by January 1, 2001, less
than two and a half months from now.
[English]
One of the central themes of both our last budget and this
ensuing economic statement is the need to foster a culture of
innovation and entrepreneurship in Canada.
1550
If companies are going to invest, we want them to invest in
Canada. If they are going to create jobs, we want them to create
jobs in Canada. If young people are going to have opportunities,
we want them to have opportunities in Canada.
Our tax structure should provide incentives, not impediments, to
achieving these goals. This is something that small businesses,
particularly new start-ups, have been telling governments for
some time.
Therefore, in order to increase the amount of capital available
to small businesses, budget 2000 introduced a limited tax-free
rollover of capital gains for eligible small business
investments. Effective immediately, this measure will be
expanded to raise the amount of the rollover from $500,000 to $2
million.
Furthermore, the size of business eligible for the rollover will
be increased from $10 million to $50 million. This will help
existing Canadian businesses to look for new opportunities, to
innovate, to expand and to hire new employees. For new
businesses it will mean greater opportunity to secure the
resources they need to succeed.
At the moment, self-employed Canadians get a 17% credit on both
the employer's and the employee's contributions to the Canada and
Quebec pension plans. This puts them at a disadvantage with
incorporated businesses which can deduct the employer's portion
of these contributions. To remove this disadvantage, effective
January 1, 2001 the employer's portion of the contributions to
these plans will be 100% deductible.
As part of our approach to encouraging entrepreneurship and the
creation of new jobs in Canada for Canadians, budget 2000 reduced
the capital gains inclusion rate from three-quarters to
two-thirds. Effective today we will go further. We will lower
the inclusion rate to 50% and provide similar tax relief for
employee stock option benefits.
An internationally competitive corporate tax system is essential
to sustaining economic growth. At the present time we have a
small business tax rate of 12%. For larger companies, there are
a number of Canadian industries that enjoy a competitive tax rate
of 21%. However there are other sectors, like high tech where
much of the new job creation is occurring, that face a tax rate
of 28%.
In budget 2000 we set out a five year plan to lower that rate
from 28% to 21%. The plan called for a one point drop next year
with the remaining reduction taking place by the end of five
years.
Today, to assure that these companies remain internationally
competitive, we are accelerating the plan. In addition to the
one point reduction in the general corporate tax rate scheduled
for the coming year, we will now legislate a two point cut in
each of the following three years. By accelerating and
legislating this timetable, companies can invest with certainty,
knowing precisely when and by how much their taxes will fall.
Let me now turn to the most important aspect of our tax plan,
personal income taxes, and let me begin by telling the House what
our plan means for Canadians, especially moderate and middle
income families with children.
The initiatives we announced in our last budget eight months ago
would have reduced taxes for Canadians by an average of 15%.
Today we will deepen these cuts to an average of 21%. For
families with children we will do more, providing an average tax
cut of 27%. As a result of the measures we announced in February
and those we are announcing today, let me give some examples of
the tax savings for Canadians.
1555
A two earner family of four have a combined income of $60,000.
Last year they paid about $5,700 in federal tax. Next year,
beginning in January, that is two and a half months from now,
their taxes will fall by $1,000. That is a first year savings of
18% and in less than four years their taxes will fall by 34%.
A single mom with one child earns $25,000 a year. Last year she
received a net benefit of over $1,400. Next year, beginning in
January, she will receive an additional $800 for a total benefit
of $2,200.
[Translation]
A couple with two children, and one parent working, makes
$40,000. Last year they paid $3,325 in federal tax. Next year
they will pay $1,100 less, a reduction of 32%. In less than four
years this family will see their taxes reduced by 59%.
A single father with one child earns $33,000 a year. Last year
he paid almost $900 in taxes. Next year he will pay no net tax
whatsoever.
[English]
Those are the stories, Mr. Speaker. What do they tell you? They
tell you that we are cutting tax rates for all Canadians, that we
are doing so substantially, that we are going further and faster
than previously pledged, and that we are not waiting for some
undefined time in the future to do so. These cuts take effect in
less than two and a half months from now.
Let me now turn to the measures. Effective January 1, for those
Canadians earning between $60,000 and $100,000 a year we are
reducing the current 29% tax rate to 26%. We will eliminate the
Conservative deficit reduction surtax for all Canadians effective
January 1.
In budget 2000 we committed to lowering the middle tax rate from
26% to 23% over five years. Today I am announcing that moderate
and middle income Canadians will not have to wait five years.
Nor will they have to settle for 23%. This because we will
lower the middle income rate effective this January and we will
reduce it to 22%.
1600
Let me now describe our approach to tax relief for low income
Canadians, those who need it most. This is where our tax cuts
began even before our books were balanced. Over the past three
years we have raised the threshold at which no net tax is paid,
removing one million Canadians from the tax rolls altogether.
Eight months ago, the most important measure of budget 2000, we
restored full indexation to our tax system, a measure designed to
help low income Canadians in particular.
However, this is not our final word. We have always said that as
resources permit we would do more for low income Canadians and
we will do so in each and every budget going forward. Today we
take the latest but not the last steps.
First, we will lower the 17% rate to 16% effective this January.
Second, in order to assist those families with children, we will
increase the national child benefit supplement by $100 per child.
This is in addition to the $200 increase announced in budget
2000, bringing the increase in the supplement to $300 per child
effective next July 1. By 2004 this increase in the supplement
will mean a total benefit of more than $2,500 for the first
child with corresponding benefits for additional children.
Third, as the colder months approach, Canadians are concerned
about the impact of rising energy prices on their home heating
bills. This concern is particularly acute for those on low
incomes.
Three weeks ago the member for Pickering—Ajax—Uxbridge, on
behalf of government members, proposed an amendment to an
opposition motion in order to ensure that relief is targeted to
those who need it most. We agree. We are therefore announcing,
at a cost of $1.3 billion for 11 million Canadians a one time
relief of $125 per individual, $250 per family to assist low and
modest income Canadians in dealing with their home heating
expenses.
[Translation]
Let me now turn to the measures. For those Canadians earning
between roughly $60,000 and $100,000 we will reduce the current
29% tax rate to 26%, effective January 1, 2001. We will eliminate
completely the deficit reduction surtax, the surtax imposed by
the Conservatives, effective January 1.
In Budget 2000 we committed to lowering the middle tax rate
from 26% to 23% over five years. Today I am announcing that
moderate and middle income Canadians will not have to wait five
years, nor will they have to settle for 23%. We will lower the
middle rate effective January 1, 2001 and we will reduce it to
22%.
Let me now describe our approach to tax relief for low income
Canadians.
First, we will lower the 17% rate to 16% effective January 1,
2001.
Second, in order to assist those families with children we will
increase the national child benefit supplement by $100 per child.
This is in addition to the $200 increase announced in budget
2000, bringing the increase in the supplement to $300 per child
effective July 1, 2001.
Third, as the colder months approach, Canadians are concerned
about the impact of rising energy prices on their home heating
bills. This concern is particularly acute for those on low
incomes.
1605
We are, therefore, announcing, at a cost of $1.3 billion, a
one-time relief of $125 per individual or $250 per family to
assist low and modest income Canadians in dealing with their home
heating expenses.
This government has always understood that there are certain
priorities that cannot be deferred. Assisting Canadians with
disabilities is one of these. Indeed, even when we were in
deficit, we took action.
We have enriched the tax credit for infirm dependants, enhanced
the medical expense credit, increased the child care expense
deduction for children with disabilities and expanded eligibility
for the disability tax credit.
[English]
Today we will do more. We will further enrich the amount for
the infirm dependant tax credit from $2,386 to $3,500. We will
similarly increase the supplement amount for the disability tax
credit for children with severe disabilities from $2,900 to
$3,500. We will increase the amount for the disability tax
credit from $4,290 to $6,000.
Finally, in 1998, to recognize the increasing burden that many
families bear as a result of an aging population, we introduced
the caregiver credit. Today, effective January 1, we will
increase the amount for that credit from $2,386 to $3,500.
[Translation]
In February we proposed to cut taxes by $58 billion over five
years. Today, the measures we are announcing will increase that
cut to $100 billion.
This plan delivers by far the largest tax cuts in Canadian
history, but it is also balanced. It leaves the financial room to
address priorities such as health care and education, the
essential building blocks of a progressive society.
[English]
In February we proposed to cut taxes by $58 billion over five
years. Today the measures we are announcing will increase that
to $100 billion. This plan delivers by far the largest tax cuts
in Canadian history, but it is also balanced. It leaves the
financial room to address priorities such as health care and
education, the essential building blocks of a progressive
society. It also leaves the government with the capacity to deal
with future priorities and unforeseen economic developments.
In our tax proposals we set out what we will do and why. Let
me now say what we will not do and why not.
First, we will not spend 110 cents of every dollar forecast. We
will not exhaust every penny of surplus on tax cuts leaving
virtually nothing to fund the core services, nor will we base our
actions on the rosiest of predictions. Sound financial
management allows for the possibility of rain even in the
sunniest of forecasts. In the past, governments have got into
real trouble by forgetting that lesson.
1610
Our approach has served Canadians well. It has taken us from
massive deficit to surplus, from rising to declining debt, from
credit downgrade to credit upgrade. So to those who say that we
should gamble with Canadians' money we say no. We will not turn
the nation's finances into a day at the track.
Second, we will not bring in the 17% flat tax. We will not
bring it in tomorrow and we will not bring it in in five years.
It is untried and it is unfair. It is unfair today and five
years from now will not make it any fairer. It is unfair because
it gives someone earning $1 million a year a tax cut of $130,000
compared to $500 for somebody earning $25,000. It is unfair
because it would give the top 1% of all income earners in Canada
$8 billion in tax cuts. That is almost 30% of the entire flat
tax package. It is unfair even under the 17-25 interim flat tax
plan because that would still give the same top 1% of income
earners 16% of the total tax relief provided.
These results do not occur by accident. They are the intended
effects of those who propose the flat tax. It is a clear
reflection of the kind of society that they would build.
It would deliver to upper income Canadians tax relief that
rightly belongs to the middle class and that is wrong. It
rejects the progressive tax system, one based on an individual's
ability to pay, and that is wrong. It offends the basic compact
we have made with each other as Canadians to build this country
together, and that is wrong.
[Translation]
Today we have spoken of the choices we face as a country, of
the need for a vision that is broad enough to encompass all
Canadians. A vision that shares opportunity across all regions
and all income levels. A vision that rests on our mutual
commitment as citizens of this remarkable country.
[English]
For 133 years we have proven that we could build a nation of
opportunity and still provide for those who cannot provide for
themselves. We have always known that we did not have to settle
for less because Canada was capable of so much more.
We have always understood that true community only comes from
working together in common cause and shared purpose, by doing
what our heart says is right in a way that our head says will
work. We cannot subscribe to the view that it is everyone for
himself, that it is winner take all. How can we fulfill our
promise as a nation if our vision of the national interest is so
constricted by self-interest?
Canada stands at the threshold of its greatest era. Together we
have come far and done much, but we know that prosperity is not
a quiet cove where we rest; it is a journey that we must
continually chart.
Every generation of Canadians has understood the responsibility
to take what is passed to them and to make of it something
better. Today that responsibility falls to us to translate the
potential that we have into the prosperity that we seek, to build
a Canada where our people feel there is nowhere else they would
rather be than here because there is nowhere else where they can
achieve so much. That is the true challenge we must meet. That is
the challenge we will meet.
1615
The Deputy Speaker: Order, please. It is my duty
pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the
questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as
follows: the hon. member for New Brunswick Southwest, Health;
the right hon. member for Kings—Hants, Human Resources
Development; the hon. member for Lévis-et-Chutes-de-la-Chaudière,
Shipbuilding; and the hon. member for
Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, Employment
Insurance.
Mr. Jason Kenney (Calgary Southeast, Canadian Alliance):
Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Minister of Finance on behalf of
the official opposition for the unprecedented gesture of spending
a significant portion of the government's budget speech talking
about the opposition's fiscal plan. We appreciate the attention
very much.
I hear the nervous nellies across the way. I can understand
that reaction. Canadians will continue to be nervous when they
see the details in this fiscal plan and understand that the
government continues to be committed to its sincerely held
conviction that politicians and bureaucrats know better than
working families or entrepreneurs how to spend an extra dollar.
The document tabled in the House today has made the fundamental
differences between the Liberal government and the Canadian
Alliance opposition even more evident. It takes a huge portion
of the taxpayer overpayment, which the government calls its
surplus, and directs it to new spending in low priority areas.
This is the very type of spending that has been roundly
criticized and condemned in its mismanagement by the auditor
general this week.
We are talking about a $52 billion spending increase above and
beyond what had already been projected by the government, $27
billion of which is not even related to reintroducing the health
care funding slashed by the government in 1995. The $27 billion
of new spending to go into low priority areas is not going to be
kept in the pockets of working families and entrepreneurs to
create new wealth, growth, hope and opportunity for Canadians.
Let me say at the outset that the finance minister talked about
the state of the Canadian economy. We can all be glad that
Canadians are finally seeing growth, but growth that
unfortunately is largely being driven by exports to the United
States, exports that themselves have been fueled by unprecedented
low currency rates. Today our currency is at only 65 cents
against the U.S. dollar. Before this government's time, the
1970s, our dollar was at par with the U.S. dollar. Much of the
growth we are experiencing is in fact a reflection of the
impoverishment of our currency and standard of living.
In this respect I would like to reference the views of an
eminent Canadian economist. In a speech earlier this year he
said that Canadian living standards measured by real disposable
income per capita fell by 2% through the decade of the 1990s
while American living standards rose by 18% over the same period.
As a consequence, Canadian living standards fell from an
estimated 74% of U.S. levels in 1989 to 61% in 1999.
1620
He went on to say that if we extrapolate this trend of the 1990s
over the coming decade, Canadian living standards will have
declined to a mere 50% of U.S. levels. He said:
I argue that there is a real danger of a continuation of Canada's
relative income deterioration under status quo policies, to the
detriment of Canada and Canadians.
By status quo policies, I mean a business as usual attitude in
Ottawa, including a continuation of the Red Book promise to
direct half of all federal surpluses into higher government
spending.
Who said that? None other than the Liberal Party's candidate in
the riding of Markham, Mr. John McCallum, who said there is a
very real risk that we will continue to see a diminishment of our
standard of living.
Unfortunately, that diminishment, which he and all other
reputable private sector economists talk about, will continue
under the fiscal direction outlined in the document before us
today. There is too little tax relief and debt reduction too
late. There is too much spending in this mini budget, with mini
tax cuts and no real legislative long term plan for debt
reduction.
As I said, this document outlines $52 billion in new spending by
2005. This money could be going to tax relief. The Canadian
Alliance has tabled before Canadians a plan to provide $125
billion in tax relief over the next five years. This would
constitute the single largest tax reduction in the history of
Canada, increasing the after tax income of average families by
over 40%. This is substantially more than that contemplated by
the minister.
We would do that by getting our priorities straight. First of
all, we would not further complicate the tax system by
introducing four tax brackets as the minister proposes to do in
this fourth rate budget. By reducing the marginal rates we would
reduce the disincentives for people to work, save and invest.
We believe those at the low end of the income scale, such as the
working poor, single mothers, seniors on fixed incomes, and all
those struggling to get ahead deserve the biggest and best tax
relief. This is precisely why, under the Canadian Alliance fair
tax plan, we propose to increase the basic personal exemption
from the paltry $7,700 proposed by the minister to $10,000 and to
match it with a spousal exemption. This would help eliminate the
unfairness against single income families.
The minister has chosen today to continue the unfair
discrimination against single income families who choose to raise
their children at home. The Canadian Alliance tax plan would
level the playing field for all families with any choice of child
care by introducing a generous $3,000 per child deduction. Under
our plan a family of five would pay zero federal tax on their
first $29,000 of income. A single mother who earns $16,000 a
year and has two children would pay zero tax under the Canadian
Alliance proposal. Under our proposal 1.4 million low income
Canadians would be lifted off the tax rolls. These are the same
Canadians the government will continue to force to pay taxes.
I know the minister would like us to believe this tiny reduction
in the bottom rate from 17% to 16% will somehow help those at the
lowest income level. For a single income mother who earns
$16,000 a year and has two children the minister's plan means a
cup of coffee in terms of a year's tax savings. Under the
Canadian Alliance plan she would be paying no tax. It would be a
100% tax cut. That is fair.
Let us take the example of a couple with two children, with one
parent earning a salary of $40,000. They would pay $317 less
under the Alliance plan in this fiscal year and nearly $1,700
less than under the minister's tax and spend budget.
1625
Our plan would provide greater tax relief for income earners at
all levels. We do not apologize for that. We do not apologize
for lifting 1.4 million taxpayers off the rolls. We do not
apologize for giving a 100% tax cut to low income mothers and
parents. We do not apologize for providing family tax fairness.
We do not apologize for suggesting that those who work hard and
innovate and get ahead and have high incomes in particular years
should also get tax relief. These are the people who help create
wealth and jobs. They help create the environment we need for
long term and sustained economic prosperity.
The minister used the demagogic rhetoric of class warfare at the
end of his speech. This millionaire who himself engages in the
most aggressive form of tax avoidance through his steamship
lines, with its ships flagged in such tax havens as Liberia and
Panama, would stand in this place and play class warfare politics
by suggesting that those who carry the biggest burden, those who
are successful, ought not to see tax relief. That is
disingenuous.
We see the consequences of this kind of class warfare rhetoric.
We see it every year when 65,000 talented, bright, contributing
Canadians, the equivalent of a Canadian city, leave to pursue
economic opportunities elsewhere and find lower taxes.
This budget will fundamentally do nothing to bring Canada closer
to catching up with such major competitors as the United States,
neither in personal taxes nor in business taxes. The government
fails to reduce the small business tax rate which the Canadian
Alliance would reduce from 12% to 10%.
The budget fails to move fast enough to reduce the capital gains
tax burden on investment and innovation. The government proposes
to reduce the inclusion rate for capital gains from two-thirds to
50%, as do we. The difference is that a Canadian Alliance
government would tax those gains at eventually the single low
rate of 17%. That means an effective capital gains rate of
nearly half of what the government proposes, a capital gains
rate that would actually match those of our major economic
competitors and would begin to approach the levels imposed by
some of the European countries, including Germany and Ireland.
In our proposal we go much further in terms of capital gains.
Why? We choose to leave that money in the pockets of taxpayers
and not in Ottawa to be handed out by politicians or bureaucrats.
Let me move on to the question of debt. It is a question that
my Liberal friends opposite are expert on. They are principally
responsible for having created the $565 billion national mortgage
that is a weight on this economy and on future generations. It
is a debt that costs us still $40 billion a year in annual
interest payments.
Canadians said they would like to see a legislated,
politician-proof commitment to pay down the debt. What do they
get in this budget from the government? More rhetoric, more
maybes, more ifs, more possibilities and no legislative
commitment for debt reduction.
The Liberals say that they will turn the contingency fund into a
possible debt reduction fund. Before that happens, that money
has to get through a cabinet populated by the likes of Brian
Tobin, the Minister of Canadian Heritage and the Minister of
Human Resources Development. One can call me a sceptic, but I
believe that money will end up in new pork barrel spending the
likes of which the auditor general has just criticized. It will
not be used to pay down our national mortgage.
That is precisely why the Canadian Alliance has proposed an
absolute rock bottom, solid minimum in the worst case year, in a
politician-proof locked box, of $6 billion a year in debt
reduction, to be matched by 75% of any unexpected surpluses and
on top of that a very generous contingency reserve and prudence
factor of $7 billion a year. In the fifth year of our plan, if
the economy grows as the minister projects, we would see annual
debt reduction of nearly $20 billion. That would be real action
to eliminate the national debt within, we would hope, four to
five decades and not the much longer period of time proposed by
the government.
Again, on debt reduction, because the government instead decides
to spend more through politicians and bureaucrats in Ottawa, we
will not get nearly as much as Canadians demand and need to
secure our economic future.
On so many other issues this budget falls short. When it comes
to gas tax relief the vast majority of Canadians have said that
they want meaningful, immediate and permanent relief in terms
of fuel taxes. People are struggling to pay prices of 72 cents
and 74 cents at the pump.
1630
What do they get from the government? They get a one time
election cheque being sent out to a hand selected small number of
Canadians. What we really need, what the Alliance proposes to
deliver, is a permanent elimination of the so-called deficit
reduction surtax on fuel and the stopping of the odious practice
of applying the GST on tax. We would deliver a permanent
reduction of 3.5 cents per litre in the price per litre for all
Canadians, not just for a hand picked few. We would not just
hand out a one time election year cheque as the minister
proposes to do in this budget.
We would also move much more quickly and aggressively to enhance
the retirement security of Canadians by increasing the maximum
amount people can contribute to their registered retirement
savings plans. We would raise that immediately to $18,500, which
the government will not do even within the fifth year of its
plan. We understand that Canadians need a reliable income for
their retirement and we will provide the tax room for them to
create that future. We would also raise the foreign property
content limit in RRSPs, which would allow Canadians to diversify
their investments and have a safer retirement in the future.
We would also reduce the general corporate tax rate much more
quickly than the government proposes and equalize it so that we
no longer penalize the services sector.
This mini-budget, with its mini-tax cut, its huge spending and
its non-existent debt reduction strategy, presents Canadians with
a clear and stark choice as we move into the weeks ahead. It is
a choice between visions of Canada.
There is the vision of Canada that says politicians in Ottawa
know better how to direct the economic future of working families
than those families themselves. It is a choice in regard to
a government that believes the billions spent by the human
resources minister in pork barrel politically controlled spending
is somehow more creative than that money left in the pockets of
working Canadian families.
It is a choice between a vision that says a $565 billion debt is
an afterthought which can be tended to almost by accident and
incidentally, and a vision that says the national debt is a
disgrace and a burden on the future, which must be paid down
legally, without any choice for government, in order to begin to
reduce it.
It is essentially a choice between a government vision that does
not apologize for the fact that Canada will continue to have the
highest personal income taxes in the G-7 and will continue to see
its standard of living, its competitiveness and the value of its
currency deteriorate, as Mr. McCallum says, under the kind of
spending plan proposed today, and the vision of the Canadian
Alliance, which is one of a country that rewards risk taking,
entrepreneurship and the kind of creative and dynamic economic
activity that founded this great land.
We in the official opposition look forward to the debate around
the misplaced priorities of the government, its return to pork
barrel spending, its election driven and politically driven
agenda, and the vision we present which allows greater freedom
and greater opportunity for Canadians in all parts of the
country at all income levels. We look forward to the debate
that is about to come.
In closing, I would move:
That the motion be amended by deleting all the words after the
word “that” and substituting the following:
That this House condemns the Government for failing to provide
the vision and leadership that Canadians need as they face a new
century with new challenges and opportunities, for burdening
Canadians with personal income tax levels that are the highest
among the world's largest economies, for allowing incomes and
productivity to fall behind the United States and other
countries, for creating a mountain of debt for their children and
grandchildren to bear, for causing long waits for medical
treatment by making deep cuts to health care which have yet to be
fully restored, and that this House condemns the government for
its arrogance in giving grants and contracts to political
supporters, and in mismanaging billions of taxpayers' dollars in
grants and contributions over its seven years in office.
1635
[Translation]
Mr. Yvan Loubier (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, BQ): Madam Speaker,
the mini-budget brought down today by the Minister of Finance
would do any member of the Canadian Alliance proud.
It is a budget that leans to the right. It is a budget that
will satisfy a certain cross-section of taxpayers in Quebec and
in Canada, but which ignores a large chunk of the population.
With the staggering, not to say exploding, surpluses at the
disposal of the Minister of Finance, we were expecting that he
would do something for those who were really responsible for
helping put the fiscal house in order, those whose efforts have
made the last three years of zero deficits possible and are still
being gouged by the federal tax system, those who are the reason
the minister can stand here today and boast about surpluses.
We thought that the main beneficiaries of these tax cuts would
be low and middle income families, not families at the top end of
the scale, those earning $250,000 and up, not the millionaire
friends of the Minister of Finance.
We were expecting that a major effort would be made to provide
relief for the neediest families, those who are responsible for
Canada's improved finances.
Instead, we see tax cuts for those at the top, those earning
$250,000 and up. Many of them are listening today. We see tax
cuts for these folks that are 40 times the tax cuts for a
Canadian family earning $35,000. That is 40 times higher.
1640
Tax cuts for a family with one dependent child and a $35,000
income represent 1% of that family's income, whereas tax cuts
for families with an income of $250,000 or more represent 8% for
that income bracket. What kind of fairness is this? It is worse
than the flat rate advocated by the Alliance.
With the tax cuts, the change in the capital gains taxation, and
the elimination of the surtax, a family that has an income of
$250 000 will get a $20,000 reduction in its tax bill this year.
This is $20,000 after taxes for people who do not need it and
did not contribute to the surplus.
So this family will get $20,000, and a single income family
with one dependent child and $35,000 will get only $500. That is
$20,000 compared to $500.
Can we imagine what we could have done by transferring to low
and middle income families the tax cuts being granted to the
rich? We could have eliminated all federal income tax for
families with an income of $40,000 or less. Families in need,
families that are in need because of this government and this
callous finance minister, could have been dropped from the
federal income tax roll.
Today, the finance minister candidly gave us an interesting bit
of information.
We have often risen in the House to ask him to do something to
ensure that single parents with one dependent child earning less
than $35,000 not pay any tax. He has always said “It is already
taken care of, those people no longer pay any tax”. How can he
explain now that he wants to reduce the income tax level for
this bracket of income when these people supposedly no longer
pay any tax?
After saying just about anything about the surplus, after hiding
the real figures from the Canadian people to prevent any public
debate on the Liberals' priorities right wing priorities, they
are now fudging the figures on income tax reduction. They want
Canadians to believe that they will benefit from extraordinary
income tax cuts and from the government's generosity, but this
is not the case at all.
The only ones who will benefit from all this, as was the case in
the last two budgets, are Canadians with very high incomes,
friends of the party, and they say that there are income tax
cuts.
With the last budget for the same family earning no more than
$35,000, there is a $200 reduction. For a family earning
$250,000 and more, there is a $9,000 reduction. Is that the kind
of fairness the government is talking about? Is that what is
meant by responsibility in the minister's documents? So much for
social justice. Our viewers will not be fooled. They will
realize that for the vast majority of taxpayers there might be
some tax cuts, but inadequate cuts, since the Minister of
Finance has surpluses coming out his ears.
This year he dares to say that the surplus will reach $6 billion
only, whereas close to $12 billion has already been accumulated
in the coffers of the federal government. That is more than
double his forecasts for this year. He might have doubled the
effort he is making now, but for ordinary people.
Given the proposals that are made, I think that is pretty clear.
Over the next five years $74 billion will go to tax reductions,
but these should be directed at the real people. Nine taxpayers
out of ten should get tax reductions because they are the ones
who paid in order that public finances could be placed on a
sounder footing. We are talking about people earning less than
$80,000.
That is what should be targeted, that is the unfairness that
should be corrected, for these are the people who paid for
fiscal improvement. These are the people who are still getting
bled white by the tax system so that very affluent families can
enjoy those incredible tax reductions. People within those same
income brackets workers and small business people contributing to
the employment insurance system are funding, through the surplus
accumulated in the EI account, the tax reductions the finance
minister is giving today on a silver plate to the very rich
taxpayers.
I am talking also about the unemployed men and women who are not
receiving any EI benefits since they were literally thrown out
of the system because of the drastic cuts made in this system
and because of the tightening up of the eligibility criteria.
1645
In rural areas in particular, families are out of a job eight
weeks every year and cannot qualify for EI. These people who are
in dire straits are the ones who pay for the tax reductions
granted to the rich. It is unacceptable.
In this statement as in the last two budgets tabled by the
Minister of Finance, the last two Liberal budgets, where are the
liberal values and the social solidarity? Where?
The purpose of these measures is to gain the support of the
right wing, being courted by the Alliance. The Liberals are
starting to look like the Alliance.
Mr. Michel Gauthier: They are further right than the
Conservatives.
Mr. Yvan Loubier: That is right. That is the choice the voters
are given, to vote for people who serve the very rich, the
millionaires and the billionaires. That is what the government
did first with the family trusts and now with the tax reductions.
The same thing goes for the Alliance and its flat rate. It will
increase the gap between the rich and the poor. Low and middle
income families will continue to pay, while the rich gets richer.
We in the Bloc Quebecois, are ready to manage the real things,
the real surpluses. For four years now, we have been talking
about the real surpluses the government has. We do not wail until
the eve of an election to release the real figures and talk about
our real priorities.
We in the Bloc Quebecois, believe the minister could have done
things differently. His priorities could have been different than
those he has listed.
He could have addressed the real problems. He could have given
massive tax cuts to middle income earners. He could have
reorganized the employment insurance system instead of literally
stealing the surplus from the workers every year.
He could have done more to help the poorest families faced with
the oil crisis. A senior citizen, for instance, or a woman living
alone, will receive a cheque of $125 to make up in part for the
increase in the price of oil heating. Actually, the price of oil
has almost doubled since last year, from $600 to more than
$1,000. What good is $125?
Incidentally, if the government had not given a $20,000 income
tax cut to those earning $250,000 and more, it could have been
more generous. We could have done more for those people.
We could also have given a hand to the trucking industry. Some
people are in difficulty right now because of the oil crisis. We
could have helped taxi drivers or farmers who are going through
an incredible crisis because of oil prices.
Instead, the government has chosen the easy way, the flag on the
cheque. It chose to give $125 to make up for the constant
increase in the price of oil and as a means to help the poorest,
the ones the government has hit hard with such drastic measures
as the cuts to social transfer payments or the restrictive rules
of eligibility for employment insurance benefits.
This is what it has done. A $20,000 income tax cut for
millionaires and a $500 cut for middle income families and the
poorest families during an unprecedented oil crisis. It has
given them $125.
It is the flag that counts.
Mr. Michel Gauthier: This is political marketing.
Mr. Yvan Loubier: It is political marketing, and political
opportunism too to come out with such things just before an
election.
It is shameful to come out with such things. It is shameful for
two reasons. The government forgot to say who actually cleaned up
the public finances. We did not forget those people.
We know that those who had to bear the brunt of most of the $25
billion increase in taxes, to which bracket creep must be added,
since 1993 are low and middle income families, those who earn
less than $80,000 a year. We did not forget them.
We did not forget the unemployed either, because by being robbed
of the EI fund surplus, they are the ones who are paying for the
tax relief given to the rich. We did not forget them.
During the next election campaign, we will fight with all our
might to force the Minister of Finance to go back to the drawing
board and apply tax resources to the priorities of ordinary people,
whom we have consulted. We have been consulting people for seven
years since we were elected here. We know what the priorities
are.
For his part, the minister consults his friends the millionaires
and people from big corporations, like Thomas d'Aquino, before
deciding what would be good for society as a whole. Of course, he
ends up helping a few millionaires.
1650
We will know what the priorities are. Here they are: tax cuts as
high as those proposed generally by the Minister of Finance, but
for families that really need them. As for employment insurance,
it is a reform that would use up most of the surpluses generated
in the next five years, the rest serving as a contingency fund,
to improve the system so that more than 40% of Canadians are
eligible. For women and young people, the exclusion rate is even
higher.
We will fight against the fact that there has been no index
adjustment to the Canada health and social transfer for health,
social assistance and especially education which has been
neglected by the government for the last seven years.
We will also ensure that the social priorities mentioned by
various groups are recognized. It is urgent that sufficient funds
be awarded to social housing nationally. The government could
even afford to spend $8 billion on social housing over the next
five years if it rethinks its priorities properly.
For the first time, the Minister of Finance and the Bloc
Quebecois have forecast the same surplus. Eminent economists had
to speak out last week before the minister finally recognized
the existence of surpluses.
He has the means to act. He could also increase old age security
benefits.
According to a recent report by the National Council of Welfare
the rate of poverty for single and older women is 47%. These
women live below the poverty level.
There are budgets to increase old age security benefits for
these women whose poverty rate is incredible. There is more
money available than what has been spent so far on the
environment. There is money for shipyards. Instead of having his
ships built in China, the Minister of Finance could have them
built in Quebec or elsewhere in Canada and could provide tax
measures.
Thousands of workers are waiting for this. He could have come
with an announcement today, but no, he has his ships built in
China. He pays taxes in the Caribbean and asks us to tighten our
belts while he gives handouts to his buddies. This is
incredible.
He could have put a lot more money into international aid. This
is really shameful. We are now at 0.3% of GDP while the
established goal is almost 0.7% of GDP. He could have done this.
He could have stopped squandering public funds to really control
grants and how they are handed out.
What is management at the Department of Human Resources
Development doing with our money?
An hon. member: It is used for friends, it is cronyism.
Mr. Yvan Loubier: That is it, cronyism.
There are five RCMP investigations in the Prime Minister's
riding. This is no joke.
He could have announced some measures to put public finances on
a healthier footing, to make fair use of the proceeds of that
operation of putting policies and fund allocation on a healthier
footing. He could have announced that he was giving them to
those in need. No, in keeping with his last two budgets, as
soon as he began to accumulate major surpluses, his priorities
were to please in this order: number 1, the highest income
group; number 2, big business; and number 4, 5 or even 6, his
last priority, to help out ordinary people. Those are this
government's priorities. It has shown us that again today. The
next election campaign will be one based on truth. People will
have to choose between the Liberal right and the Alliance right.
I believe that the Bloc Quebecois has demonstrated that it is
the true defender of the interests of Quebecers and even of
Canadians, when possible. The real interests of real people who
must be served by democracy, not the millionaire buddies of the
minister or the Prime Minister, but real people.
Today that is not the priority of the Minister of Finance. His
priority has gone directly to the people with the highest
incomes. The minister may have forgotten that Halloween falls
on October 31. He has already put out his pumpkin and started
distributing his goodies. The goodies are for the rich; the
poor will get the crumbs.
1655
This is the conclusion that can be drawn from this mini-budget.
We are going to fight with all our might to send the minister
back to the drawing board and to have the truth come out.
People are going to see that real income tax cuts are not for
those who are watching us, the nine out of ten taxpayers who
earn $80,000 or less and who are not going to benefit from it,
but they are the ones who are going to pay, through their
contributions to the UI fund for tax relief for those who make
upwards of $250,000. I think people are going to find out about
this.
I would like to move the following amendment to the amendment:
“, for not having given enough tax relief to lower- and
middle-income families and too much relief to high-income
earners, for having done nothing to resolve the Employment
Insurance problem, for not having solved the social housing
problem and for not having indexed the Canadian Social
Transfer, for having provided those who are most in need
with completely inadequate compensation for the rise in oil
prices, and for having done nothing to help the trucking,
taxi and agricultural industries facing this crisis;”.
By the way, there is nothing there about Mosel Vitelic either.
We would have expected to be pleasantly surprised by the finance
minister telling us that Mosel Vitelic was a done deal, that the
government was going to participate and it would happen in
Quebec. Unfortunately not. When it comes to job creation and
economic growth in Quebec, we are the poor relations. This is
not a priority for the finance minister and the Liberal
government.
To conclude, I would say we are going to fight the government
every inch of the way and the truth will come out even more than
it has in the past.
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): The amendment to the
amendment is in order.
* * *
[English]
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Hon. Don Boudria (Leader of the Government in the House of
Commons, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I
understand that the Chair and table officers were asking about
the intention of the motion that was introduced yesterday
regarding the debate tomorrow at private members' hour.
So that hon. members will know, the officers of the House were
asking if that meant that there were two private members' hours,
one in the morning and one in the afternoon. In fact, no, that
is not the case. It is the private members' hour of tomorrow
afternoon that was advanced to tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock,
just so that the House is clear as to what that in fact meant.
If someone were to seek unanimous consent later, as I am not
doing it now, to permit that a full slot be held for the
Conservative Party later this afternoon, our party would not
object to it.
* * *
1700
ECONOMIC POLICY
The House resumed consideration of the motion, of the amendment
and of the amendment to the amendment.
Mr. John Williams (St. Albert, Canadian Alliance): Madam
Speaker, I listened to the diatribe from the Bloc on the budget.
Unfortunately what we usually get from the Bloc is a diatribe.
The member talked about defending the interests of Quebecers and
almost as an add on said and of course Canadians as well.
Unfortunately what we get from the Bloc is a diatribe about more
taxes, more of this, more of everything.
The Minister of Finance's speech this afternoon was about two
visions of Canada. Sure he has introduced some tax reductions.
He was following behind the Canadian Alliance. He was playing
catch up to the Canadian Alliance policy of tax reduction. The
problem is he cannot make it because of the auditor general's
report.
The report contained a whole litany of waste and mismanagement
about the HRDC billion dollar boondoggle which is now perhaps a
$3 billion boondoggle. Grants were given to the Prime Minister's
friends in his own riding. A $6.3 million CIDA contract was
given to somebody who did not qualify, apart from the fact that
he happened to be the Prime Minister's friend. Another one of
the Prime Minister's friends is under investigation. I am talking
about a $5 million grant by Industry Canada that was given to
someone who is under police investigation by HRDC. The litany
goes on and on. That is why the Liberals cannot offer the tax
relief that we would offer. We want to clean up all of that.
The Minister of Finance talked about more grants and money going
to the poor. Through the income tax returns we would take them
right out of the Income Tax Act so they would not have to pay
money to the Government of Canada in the first place and then get
the money back.
Perhaps we are looking at an election. It sounded like an
election style statement by the Minister of Finance.
If members of the Bloc see that tax reduction is feasible by the
Liberal government and that tax reduction is feasible by the
Canadian Alliance, why are they still ranting on about their
agenda of separation when they recognize that if we all work
together, we can build a great country?
[Translation]
Mr. Yvan Loubier: Madam Speaker, I find the latter part of the
member's question irrelevant.
I would like to talk about the Canadian Alliance's tax reduction
proposals. Last week I had the opportunity, along with other
economists, to speak with the Leader of the Canadian Alliance in
Montreal. I can tell the House that as far as progressivity
goes, the tax system proposed by the Canadian Alliance is a bust.
It does not make the grade.
No one found the Canadian Alliance proposal credible. It
increased disparity among the various income levels and did
little to solve the real problems of taxation.
We on the other hand, have been working hard since 1993 to
observe and analyse this taxation system and have reached the
conclusion that the important thing is not the rates of taxation
but deductions, tax credits. We analysed all that, as well as
the taxation structure. I would remind the Canadian Alliance
member that the discrepancy in tax cuts is worse with the
Canadian Alliance proposal than with any other proposal.
For instance, we looked at a family with one dependant earning
$250,000. The tax cut would be 14 times greater than that for a
middle income family. It would be 11 times greater for the
Liberals. They are still leaning to the right, but the Canadian
Alliance proposal is far from being a solution to the problem and
being fiscally fair. On the contrary. Relatively speaking, tax
cuts for top income earners are far higher than for middle income
earners.
By the way, Quebecers are paying $35 million in taxes to the
federal government. This is a huge amount of money. They are
therefore entitled to have a say in how this money is spent,
particularly in light of the government's patronage, cronyism,
and squandering which the member mentioned.
1705
Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie—Bathurst, NDP): Madam Speaker, I have
a question for the member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot.
I think he
must know that when it was announced recently that there was a
$12.3 billion surplus in the general revenue fund, 75% of that
money came from the employment insurance fund.
When I was young we used to say that Robin Hood stole from the
rich to give to the poor. Today Robin Hood steals from the poor
to give to the rich. What is happening in the House today is
another example of stealing from the poor to give to the rich; a
3% tax cut for the rich and a 1% tax cut for the poor.
I would like my colleague from Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot to comment
on the fact that 75% of the federal government's surplus comes
from the employment insurance fund. Today, more than 800,000
people are no longer eligible for EI benefits. Children are going
hungry because of the cuts made by the Liberals to the employment
insurance program in 1996.
Today, they are singing their own praises to win votes. I want
to hear the member on this. Does the Minister of Finance and the
government think they still can buy votes as they did in the
past? I can assure the members today, as I did last week, that
we, in Atlantic Canada, are not for sale at such a laughable
price.
Mr. Yvan Loubier: Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from
Acadie—Bathurst for his particularly relevant question and
remarks.
The government has grown wealthy on the backs of the most
disadvantaged. It has always been so. We are talking about the
employment insurance fund. For six years the fund has had
significant surpluses contributed by workers and employers. The
federal government does not contribute a cent to it any more.
Yet it has the gall, on page 101 of its budget document, through
its Minister of Finance, to liken cuts to employment insurance
contributions to tax cuts. It does not contribute one red cent
to the employment insurance fund and it considers cuts to
employer and employee contributions to be the equivalent of cuts
in income tax. How twisted can one get?
The member is right. By creaming off $38 billion in surpluses
since 1994 the Minister of Finance has funded most of his
surpluses from the surplus in the employment insurance fund.
Moreover, savage cuts were made in funding for health care,
education and social assistance to the provinces. It took a
first ministers meeting and the realization that the government
could no longer reasonably say that it had no surplus when
surpluses were arriving by the shovel full to get the government
to react and repair the damage.
From one end of the country to the other, Canada's health care
system was cracking while the Minister of Finance was cracking
under the weight of the surpluses. Is it not shameful to wait
until a few weeks before an election may be called to announce he
was putting money back into health? People have been waiting for
that for years. The system was cracking.
We expected an employment insurance reform because, as my
colleague accurately pointed out, only 43% of unemployed workers
qualify for EI benefits. Some people are on the street because of
the Minister of Finance. Since a surplus of between five and
seven billion dollars was generated each year for the past five
years, we expected the Minister of Finance to allocate more to
improving the program than the $250 million announced a few days
ago by the Minister of Human Resources Development. We expected
that the unemployed, the poor and the families on the street
would benefit from the minister's generosity, not the
millionaires. But we were wrong.
Even though the Liberals are electoral opportunists when they
make people believe that there are tax reductions and so on, they
cannot even manage to do so in a way that will benefit them. This
budget is clearly a budget for the wealthy. It is not a budget
for the middle class, the poor, the unemployed, or for young
people striving to get an education. There is not any additional
money for education.
This is not a budget for the poor, who are faced with the oil
crisis. It is not a budget for the elderly or for the women who
marched in the streets to call for special measures for them.
This is unbelievable. The hon. member is right and his comments
are to the point.
[English]
Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): Madam Speaker, I rise
today to respond with very mixed feelings to the government's
economic statement. In one sense I have a heavy heart about the
choices the government has made as expressed in today's
mini-budget.
1710
I must say in another sense I have a real feeling of optimism
about what Canadians are going to say about the priorities
expressed in this budget. I have a feeling of optimism about
what Canadians are going to do to seize the opportunity the
upcoming election will give them to take corrective action and
corrective measures to try to put the federal government back on
a more progressive course.
Budgets and economic statements are an expression of a
government's values. They are an expression of its priorities
and its choices.
Once again what we have seen today is that the government has
chosen to leave a great many Canadians out in the cold. Once
again the government has chosen to give a major nod and a major
boost to the tax cut lobby in the country. It has chosen to
continue the Liberal obsession of catering to the interests and
dictates of large corporations and the wealthy elite.
For seven years the Liberal government has had the opportunity
to make different choices. Yet at every turn it has chosen to
cut services for people who need them and now to cut taxes for
the wealthy and the powerful.
The Liberals have chosen to cut taxes over cutting waiting lists
for hospital beds and for cancer treatment. They have chosen to
cut taxes over cutting rates of child poverty, over cutting down
on the numbers of homeless, over cutting pollution of our air and
our water.
Today's economic statement sounds more like a page from the
reform alliance platform than a progressive vision for Canada's
future. They actually seem proud of that. The member for St.
Albert actually stood and said that this budget is playing catch
up with the reform alliance vision for Canada. I say that this
is a government that has swallowed whole the reform alliance
vision for Canada. We could hear the loud burp of the
indigestion of members opposite on that revolting decision to
swallow whole the reform alliance platform.
Mr. Bill Blaikie: Some contest of values.
Ms. Alexa McDonough: Some contest of values my colleague
says. He would want to say that again.
Liberals together with the other party are boasting about the
size of their tax cuts. It is as if they are caught up in a game
of one-upmanship; my tax cuts are bigger than your tax cuts.
Meanwhile the federal Liberal government turns its back on
Canadian families who are struggling to make ends meet, who are
struggling to pay for their own home care and who are struggling
to pay for the prescription drugs they need.
[Translation]
Canadians have paid dearly so that Liberals could flaunt around
and boast about their big surplus and the big tax cuts they are
making. But for the vast majority of Canadians, the government
has tragically replaced the fiscal deficit with a social
deficit.
[English]
We see that social deficit around us every day. We see it in
the unacceptable waiting lists for vital health services, like
radiation therapy for women with breast cancer.
We see the social deficit among our students. Tuition has risen
by 126% over the past decade. Graduating students from last year
faced average debt loads of $25,000 and we know it continues to
rise. The debt load continues to rise in every province except
the NDP provinces.
We see the social deficit on the streets of our largest cities.
For example in the city of Toronto 5,000 children are homeless
every night.
We see the social deficit on farms. Families are trying for the
third straight year to make ends meet in the face of falling
commodity prices, high input costs and reluctant and inadequate
federal support.
We see the tragic social deficit in regions where work is
seasonal, unemployment is chronic and workers are scrambling to
scrape by on woefully inadequate insurance benefits.
1715
We see it in communities where families can no longer turn on
their tap and be assured that their water is safe for their kids
to drink or to brush their teeth. They cannot be assured that
the water is safe to make a cup of tea for their grandmother, for
heaven's sake.
We see the social deficit at food banks where a quarter of a
million Canadians are now forced to go just to be able to put
food on the table for their families.
Today we see none of these crucial deficits count with the
government. It is too busy figuring out its tax cuts for its
elite friends.
That is the real record of the Liberal government. It has a
great deal of answering to do to the people of Canada.
Over the past five years the government has taken $50 billion
out of social spending, $30 billion out of unemployment
insurance, and another $25 billion from health care, education
and basic social welfare services.
The Liberal government has chosen to give the banks a $500
million annual tax cut instead of reducing child poverty. The
Liberal government has chosen to eliminate regulations instead of
standing up to polluters with new tougher national standards. The
Liberal government has worked harder to stall the loophole case,
which my colleague raised again this afternoon in the House, than
it has at ensuring Canada's tax system is fair for everyone, not
just the country's wealthiest families.
The government has slashed funding and retreated to the
sidelines while some provinces welcome in private hospitals
instead of working with the provinces to build up our health care
system so that it is there when people need it; there when people
need it regardless of their financial circumstances and
regardless of where they happen to live.
The recent deal with the provinces fails to restore the level of
federal funding for medicare even to its pre-Liberal cutback
level of 1994-95. It fails to restore the level of funding for
medicare to what it was under the Mulroney government when the
Liberals took office.
There is another vision of what Canada can be. Canadians know
that Canada could be so much better. There is another vision to
which the vast majority of Canadians aspire. It is a vision
where governments are on the side of working families, where
government is committed to the services that ordinary Canadians
need, where the hopes and dreams of ordinary Canadians can be put
first.
Canadians need a federal government that shows the kind of
leadership that truly restores funding to our health care system,
the kind of leadership that halts the growth of for profit
medicine, the kind of leadership that extends medicare so that it
includes the home care that people need and includes the basic
prescription drug that people in many cases need to stay alive or
maintain some kind of quality of life.
Canadians need leadership that sets tough national standards to
stop pollution and to protect people's health. They need
leadership that attacks the shame, the national disgrace of child
poverty and attacks it head on by reinvesting in our children and
in our young people through increased child tax benefits and a
national child care program, a national child care program
promised by the Liberal government from the day it came to
office.
We need leadership that makes sure our young people have the
skills that they need to succeed in today's knowledge based
economy. We need to roll back tuition fees because if not, we
are graduating students into poverty and making it impossible for
them to get on with their lives.
1720
We need leadership that creates training programs to make full,
meaningful employment a reality so that people do not have to
work longer and harder for less. That is what is happening to
Canadian families. We need leadership that fights for a new
approach to global trade, that puts the interests of ordinary
Canadians ahead of the interests of global corporations.
Canadians know that Canada can be a better place.
[Translation]
We can do better in Canada. The federal government can afford to
invest in the future, in our children, our families and our
communities. It can do it without adding to the debt. It is a
matter of choice and priorities.
[English]
It is a matter of political will, the political will to invest
in the priorities that we share in common as Canadians: medicare,
education and training, housing, community development and
environmental protections. We need the political will to say no
to the dictates of the banks and the wealthiest Canadians, to
re-establish the role of the federal government as the true
guardian of medicare and national standards for other social
programs as well.
The finance minister has shown us today that the government and
the Prime Minister simply do not have the political will to do
any of those things.
Canadians have clearly indicated what their priorities are.
Today the Liberals have clearly shown that so-called Liberal
values mean very little to most Canadians because the fact is
that capital gains cuts will not pay for nurses. Corporate tax
cuts will not shorten waiting lists for hospital beds or cancer
treatment. Despite our aging population and rising health care
costs, the Liberal government still has not restored health
funding to the 1993 Mulroney level. Let us remember Liberal
commitments on pharmacare and home care. They have been shoved
right off the Liberal agenda.
It is a great budget for a homeless person who has a big, fat
stock portfolio. The Liberal's notion of what the reality is for
most Canadians is that they all have big, fat stock portfolios.
This budget will be great for them because they will enjoy tax
benefits of $25,000, $30,000, $35,000 from the government's tax
measures. There are $100 billion in tax cuts while over one
million children grow up in poverty in this country.
I say shame and the vast majority of Canadians say shame as well
to a government that puts tax cuts for the wealthy ahead of
dealing with the reality that we have one million children in the
country growing up in poverty. By medical assessment, 57,000
children go to bed hungry and are considered to be suffering the
effects of malnutrition because of hunger.
Liberals just do not seem to understand what it does to our
young people to tell them that they absolutely have to have
higher education in order to participate in the knowledge based
economy and then turn around and saddle them with debt loads of
$25,000 and $30,000 on average, and that is just for students
getting an undergraduate education.
1725
Hon. members should think about that. The average student debt
that our students have had heaped on their
shoulders is larger than the per capita share of the national
debt. Yet what we see in this mini-budget today is $10 billion a
year for the national debt and not one single red cent for
student debt.
I could not believe my ears when the Prime Minister said
yesterday that the biggest problem the government faces is that
it has too much money. Then I thought about it. I thought
maybe that was a promising sign of what we would see in the
mini-budget. When we look at the size of the social deficit, the
health deficit, the education deficit, the environmental deficit
and the infrastructure deficit that have been run up by the
Liberal government over the last seven years, heaven knows there
are some real priorities for which that bundle of too much money
the Prime Minister talked about yesterday is desperately needed.
The tragedy is that today we saw a mini-budget that completely
fails to address the hardship and the heartache that have been
suffered by a great many Canadians as a result of the priority
choices the government has been making over the last seven years.
The reality is that not only are there individuals and families
in many corners of the country suffering from these misplaced
Liberal priorities, but whole communities are paying the price.
Whole regions of the country are paying the price. In the
process a lot of division and tension has been created in this
country of ours.
The sense of pride that we have in ourselves in the kind of
country we are has been eroded. The only thing I can say is what
I said at the beginning, that I receive this mini-budget with a
heavy heart but also with a sense of optimism. The fact that the
federal Liberals will have to start accounting for themselves in
an upcoming election is a good thing.
The Liberal government thinks the most important thing to do is
to brag and to congratulate itself for the big bucks that are
available because of the surplus that has been created by the
social deficits the Liberals have heaped on people. But
Canadians have a very different set of values. I am absolutely
optimistic that Canadians will understand the cynicism, the
crassness, the self-serving nature of the choices the government
has made in the budget it has introduced today. It is a reminder
of why we should be grateful for the fact that we do live in a
democratic country.
Perhaps the government does not care about the
hungry and the homeless and the people who suffer from the lack
of health care and education because they do not have the private
bucks the government is pumping up with its tax cuts for the
wealthy. However, Canadians do care about those things. On
election day Canadians will have their say. They understand how
important it is that the values, the social democratic values of
the New Democratic Party be well represented in the House. A lot
more New Democrats are needed in the House to push back against
this meanspirited, cynical, crass approach to governing.
1730
Mr. Peter MacKay: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of
order. I seek unanimous consent of the House to extend the
debate.
We would respectfully submit that it is in everyone's interest
that we hear from all parties on this debate, in particular a
former Prime Minister. I would hope that all members of the
House would afford every party the opportunity to speak to this
important motion.
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): Is that agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
Some hon. members: No.
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): It being 5.30 p.m.
the House will now proceed to the consideration of private
members' business as listed on today's order paper.
The hon. member for York South—Weston is not present to move
the order as announced in today's notice paper and accordingly
the bill will be dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence
on the order paper.
[Translation]
Mr. Antoine Dubé: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order.
Since the member in question cannot be here and the time has
been set aside, it cannot be said that there is no time.
Therefore, I seek unanimous consent to consider Bill C-213 at
third reading.
If the bill were to be adopted, it could be done before the
election which is very important. I think members on both
sides will agree to that.
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): The House has heard the
request made by the member for Lévis-et-Chutes-de-la-Chaudière.
Is there unanimous consent to proceed in such a fashion?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
Some hon. members: No.
[English]
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): At this point I would
seek unanimous consent of the House to see the clock as being
6.30 p.m. so that we can proceed immediately to the adjournment
proceedings. Is that agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
ADJOURNMENT PROCEEDINGS
[English]
A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to
have been moved.
HEALTH
Mr. Greg Thompson (New Brunswick Southwest, PC): Madam
Speaker, it is not very often that we have so many members here
for the late show. It is simply deplorable what has happened in
the House in the last couple of minutes.
The Minister of Finance presented his economic statement. That
is fair. He is entitled to do that. The leaders of every party
in the House of Commons had a chance to respond except our
leader. He was denied that opportunity because the reform Party
would not provide unanimous consent to hear from a former Prime
Minister of Canada. That is deplorable.
Where is the respect? It is the same old party with a new name.
It is a new paint job but no one will buy its philosophy or
approach to government. It is the lowest of all political lows
when a former Prime Minister of Canada is denied the right to
stand in the House to present his point of view on behalf of
Canadians and the party that he represents and has represented so
well over the years.
Mr. Leon E. Benoit: What is the reform afraid of?
Mr. Greg Thompson: What is the reform party afraid of? I
think it is afraid of truth, honesty and integrity. This is what
the former Prime Minister personifies in his integrity and
ability to speak the truth. I think Canadians are entitled to
hear that on the floor of the House of Commons.
1735
The question I put to the minister a number of weeks ago had to
do with the health accord signed by the provinces. That was
simply nothing more than a patchwork approach to the health care
system.
An hon. member: A post-dated cheque.
Mr. Greg Thompson: It was simply a post-dated cheque. The
moneys will not flow for another 18 months. The government has
no plan for the future and no guarantee that moneys will be there
after the next election.
My leader would want to see established the sixth principle of
health care: dependable, stable funding so that provinces would
have a road map or plan for the future. The government is devoid
of all planning in the health care field. Its record speaks to
that. There is no plan and no ideas.
The headline in the next election should simply be no ideas, no
votes. The Liberals have demonstrated that for seven years,
seven years without leadership. What did they do when they
balanced their books? They did it on the backs of the poor, the
sick, the elderly and the unemployed. They took the most
vulnerable in society and decided to balance the book on their
backs.
They still do not have a plan. They certainly do not have a
plan that Canadians will buy into. What is more deplorable is
that in the last number of weeks they spent $8 million promoting
their idea of health care. Not one cent of the billions that are
coming in is going to sick people in hospitals who need it.
When this new money is all spent we will be back to 10 year
levels—
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): I am afraid I must
interrupt at this point.
[Translation]
Mr. Yvon Charbonneau (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Health, Lib.): Madam Speaker, to answer the question put by our
colleague from New Brunswick Southwest, I would remind him that
on September 11 the Government of Canada signed a historical
agreement with the provinces that will lead to the upgrading of
the Canadian health care system so that it is better able to meet
the needs of the population. It will mean timely and better
quality health care for Canadians.
[English]
The first ministers are committed to this vision. They also
agreed to an action plan with specific priorities for
collaboration and action in eight key areas: access to health
care, health promotion, primary health care, home care and
community care, supply of doctors and nurses, pharmaceutical
management, and investment in information technology.
[Translation]
These are very serious commitments on the part of the federal
and provincial governments and they are being acted upon.
Moreover both levels of government agreed they have to be
accountable to their people, Canadians as a whole and the
inhabitants of each province.
Reporting will begin by September 2002 and each government is
to decide how to best go about it
[English]
Also a significant reinvestment in federal funding was announced
to support the first ministers agreement.
[Translation]
I would remind our colleague from New Brunswick Southwest that
the finance minister reiterated this commitment this afternoon in
his economic statement.
This very significant new investment will result in a 35%
increase in the level of health care funding over the next few
years.
[English]
HUMAN RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT
Right Hon. Joe Clark (Kings—Hants, PC): Madam Speaker, I
express my appreciation to members of the four parties in the
House, other than the reform party alliance, who respect
democracy and would have allowed me to speak on extended hours on
the budget speech.
1740
I say to the members of the reform alliance that they are not
going to be able to get away from me that easily in the next 20
days.
I want to speak in relation to questions I put with regard to
the HRDC file. Yesterday, as hon. members know, the auditor
general pulled the mask off the government's attempts to convince
Canadians that it has the means and the ability to properly
manage their money. He uncovered a litany of errors and
mismanagement and he confirmed the House's worst fears about the
problems in the human resources development department.
The auditor general said “It was more than just sloppy
paperwork. We found that controls had broken down, putting
public funds at unacceptable risk”. He went on to say “This is
serious, because taxpayers have a right to expect that the
government will follow due process when it spends public money”.
The auditor general studied the same four programs as the now
infamous internal audit of the department. These included the
transitional jobs fund and Canada jobs fund, the youth internship
Canada program, the sectoral partnership initiatives program and
the social development partnerships program. He concluded that
there were widespread deficiencies in the management control of
all four programs.
[Translation]
“We found breaches of authority, payments made improperly, very
limited monitoring of finances and activities, and approvals not
based on established processes.”
He concluded that many practices were not acceptable. I quote:
“Proceeding without required approvals, relying on oral
contracts and paying for ineligible expenses.”
Further, he adds: “Inappropriate practices had become the
routine, accepted by management.”
While almost all attention revolved around job grants last year,
this year we learned that while $25 million was poured into the
Youth Internship program over three years only 5% of the files
were properly assessed.
[English]
In contrast to the findings of the auditor general, the minister
repeatedly defended the success of her programs. She stood in
the House and said that everything was fine within HRDC.
Yesterday she admitted in the House “we did not document
appropriately the data that would support the numbers employed”.
The auditor general stated “We could not support the
department's findings on the effectiveness of the transitional
jobs fund”.
These problems did not happen overnight. They were warning
signs that a vigilant minister should have acted upon. In 1998
an internal audit of the Atlantic groundfish strategy found
serious weaknesses in all aspects of the project's life cycle.
Why was corrective action not taken then? Why was a major
overhaul of all grants and programs not initiated at that point?
Why did the department under two different ministers wait until a
crisis erupted?
HRDC has put forward a six point action plan which it claims
will deal with the issues. That is not the judgment of the
Auditor General of Canada. That is not the judgment of the
House. The administration of this program has been a scandal and
it is a scandal that continues.
[Translation]
Mrs. Raymonde Folco (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Human Resources Development, Lib.): Madam Speaker, in response
to a comment made by the hon. member for Kings—Hants I would
like to remind him that the auditor general's report was tabled
yesterday.
As the member knows full well, this report treats mainly the
same concerns as those we have been examining since the HRDC
minister published in January the results of an internal
audit conducted by her department.
I would like, and allow me to do it in English, to show how the
auditor general, in his report, sees the way things are done in
the department. I would like to remind the hon. member for
Kings—Hants of these quotes.
[English]
The auditor general said “HRDC has initiated quite
extraordinary corrective action to address these serious
problems. We concluded that the department is on the right
track”.
1745
He says further:
He says further:
We have not in the past had too much difficulty obtaining
information that we wanted. Certainly, in the audits on which we
are reporting today, we're not reporting any such difficulty...I
think the main factor was that was there was an imbalance between
the desire of the Department to provide fast service to the
applicants and the need to have sound control over the spending
of public funds.
[Translation]
He then said that he thought, and I am still quoting the auditor
general:
I would simply like to remind the hon. member—
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): I regret to interrupt the
hon. parliamentary secretary but her time has expired.
SHIPBUILDING
Mr. Antoine Dubé (Lévis-et-Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
on May 12 I asked the Minister of Transport whether he realized
that his decision to purchase a used ferry for an additional
ferry service between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia instead of
buying a new one was wrong and totally unacceptable, and all the
more so because it was not in line with the so-called
preferential procurement policy of the Canadian government.
Here is what the minister answered:
Newfoundlanders have been demanding this ferry for
years. The minister cannot say he was taken by surprise. The
minister has been aware for a long time of the need for this
ferry.
It bears repeating that the federal government did the same
thing in the case of the ferry between Newfoundland and the
Madgalen Islands. The minister hinted that he could implement
the procurement policy in the future. He had two opportunities
to do so and one more this year but he did not.
In the meantime, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans agrees to
have coast guard patrol vessels built from American plans. Quite
a recognition for Canadian engineers.
This is not the first time the Liberal government ignores its
own policies.
It was reminded of that last week by the official languages
commissioner. The government does not even comply with the
Official Languages Act.
This week, the information commissioner said that the government
does not even honour the spirit of the Access to Information
Act.
I tried many times to have my bill passed by the House this
week, but in vain. On Monday a Liberal member objected to the idea
of adding one hour to our sitting even though, in the end, our
sitting was 20 minutes shorter than usual that day.
Again today a member could not be here for private members'
business. I asked the unanimous consent of the House to replace
him, not to extend our sitting, but just to replace him I had
his permission.
That request was denied.
This leads me to conclude that even though the Liberals voted
in favour of the principle of the bill on March 29 of this year
and even though in committee all the members including
Liberal members, voted unanimously in favour of the bill in the
clause by clause study, this is a terribly hypocritical
approach. While we had the opportunity to pass this bill before
an election is called, it will simply be left to die on the
order paper.
I am very frustrated with this situation. Tomorrow I will go to
Newfoundland where I was invited by the former premier of that
province, who is now our Minister of Industry.
He will be called upon to give advice to the government with
regard to shipbuilding.
I hope that in his new role he will be consistent with the
position he supported as a premier. On two occasions at
federal-provincial conferences he and the other premiers asked
the federal government to implement a national shipbuilding
policy. I hope he will be consistent and tell us before the
election what he intends to do to help workers in the
shipbuilding industry.
1750
There are only 3,000 of them left compared to more than 10,000
when the Liberals took office in 1993. It is unacceptable and I
deplore the fact that—
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): I am sorry to interrupt the
hon. member but the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the
Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development has the
floor.
[English]
Mr. John Finlay (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Indian Affairs and Northern Development, Lib.): Madam
Speaker, I thank the hon. member for
Lévis-et-Chutes-de-la-Chaudière for giving me the opportunity to
speak to the subject of consultations on the shipbuilding issue.
I am pleased to be able to respond to the hon. member this
evening because in fact a great deal has been accomplished over
past months.
I am pleased to note that the former Minister of Industry and
his officials conducted extensive consultations with a broad
representation of shipbuilding and repair industry stakeholders
over the past several months. The consultations revealed both
convergent and divergent views. Most stakeholders felt the need
for action to capture emerging opportunities in the offshore oil
and gas market, the Great Lakes fleet replacement market and
other niche markets.
The shipbuilding and repair industry is very diverse. The
interests of those businesses and workers sometimes are at
variance with other stakeholders such as shippers, shipowners and
shipping companies.
Stakeholders generally agreed on the current state of the
industry and on the main issues. The key issues clearly are
foreign subsidies, which distort the markets, trade barriers,
global and domestic overcapacity, and the need to refocus
traditional approaches to capture and exploit best market
opportunities.
Despite these challenges there are many examples of innovative
approaches and success stories in Canadian shipbuilding and
repair. In general, smaller yards are co-operating at a higher
capacity by pursuing new niche markets, while the larger yards
are having a more difficult time, especially with the new
markets.
The shipbuilding forum is being held in Newfoundland this
Friday. Therefore the federal government is still listening and
learning—
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): I must interrupt at
this point. There is no more time.
[Translation]
EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
Mr. Paul Crête (Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques,
BQ): Madam Speaker, on September 18 in a question I put to the
minister I talked about her insensitivity to the terrible
consequences our seasonal workers and their families are faced
with.
Nothing in the budget update that was brought down today would
correct the inequities of the current Employment Insurance Act.
Let me give the House the most dramatic example I can think of.
Between July 9 and September 17, 2000, workers in the lower St.
Lawrence and the North Shore regions had to work 525 hours to be
entitled to 21 weeks of EI benefits. Following pressures exerted
by various stakeholders, it was decided that on September 21 we
were going back to 420 hours of work for 32 weeks of benefits.
But that left a huge void. During a month and a half a second
class of citizens, of workers, was created and this winter
these people will be entitled to only 21 weeks of benefits
instead of 32.
Since I asked this question the minister introduced Bill C-44
amending the Employment Insurance Act. Why did she not correct
this inequity? Why does she not take the opportunity to add a
clause eliminating this infamous provision that is totally
unacceptable in a society like ours?
Today the government talked about distributing billions of
dollars and it is not even able to give back to seasonal workers
the ten weeks of benefits that are rightfully theirs.
In today's budget speech there is a lot of money for people who
earn $150,000 and more. They will get an $8,000 tax cut. Do hon.
members know that someone who is currently on employment
insurance and earned $400 a week when he was working receives
$220 in benefits? If he had been given 60% instead of 55%, he
would receive $240. When one lives on $240 a week an extra $20
is a lot of money because it can put bread and butter on the
family table. These are people who make $20,000 a year.
Will the government not be more sensitive and show greater
respect for what seasonal workers are going through?
1755
The message in today's budget is that if you are in the new
economy, if you have technical, professional or university
training in a specialized field, the government will help you.
Fine. But the others who do not fall into that group are left to
fend for themselves.
Will the parliamentary secretary to the minister tell us today
that, yes, the government will amend Bill C-44, yes, it will
treat with justice and fairness those who were penalized in
July, and yes, it will give the same status to seasonal workers
across the country?
Seasonal work has nothing to do with economic activity as such.
In the forestry, agriculture and tourism industries, it is often
possible to work for 18 or 20 weeks. But even if the economy is
running at full speed, even if we enjoy strong economic growth,
there are not necessarily more jobs for these workers.
Could the government not pay more attention so that these
citizens can feel they are getting some respect from it? These
people helped eliminate the deficit and they funded the $32
billion surplus in the employment insurance fund. Could these
people not get part of that surplus? Could the government
not stop making a mockery of their plight, as it just did with
Bill C-44, which provides only $500 million, when the employment
insurance surplus is $32 billion?
Today, the government is telling us that these billions will be
used to help people earning $150,000 or more.
This is revolting. But I expect that in the end the
government will budge. There is still time to do so before the
next election.
Mrs. Raymonde Folco (Laval West, Lib.): Madam Speaker, I would
remind the member for Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les
Basques that the Liberal government has in fact done many things
and intends to do many more as the Minister of Finance has
said.
The Minister of Finance announced a few minutes ago in the
House, at a cost of $1.3 billion, a one time relief of $125 per
individual or $250 per family to assist low and modest income
Canadians in dealing with their home heating expenses.
This is a one time item, a clear and specific item the Minister
of Finance has just provided. There are others. This is one I
could find very quickly.
I say to the member opposite that we are continuing to take
our inspiration from the principles which guided the 1996 reform
and which were responsible for the creation of employment
insurance.
These principles are to make the program fairer, to encourage
greater participation in the labour market, and to help people
find jobs.
We are well aware that seasonal industries underpin the
economies of a great many communities throughout the country.
We feel, however, that EI is only a partial solution and that
local economies must be stimulated to provide alternatives to
seasonal work.
What is required to improve the lot of these seasonal workers is
a concerted effort by governments and we are there to make that
effort, with our partners, businesses, local leaders and
individuals, in order to increase the number of jobs available.
We are working locally, provincially and territorially in order
to come up with long term solutions that will improve the
situation. How? By ensuring, for instance, that seasonal
workers have access to education and training opportunities and—
The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault): Unfortunately, I must
interrupt the parliamentary secretary. Her time is up.
The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been
adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow
at 9 a.m., pursuant to order made on Tuesday, October 17, 2000.
(The House adjourned at 5.59 p.m.)