TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE
THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND
TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DEVANT
LE CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
SUBJECT:
Review of the Commercial Radio Policy
/
Examen de la Politique sur la radio
commerciale
HELD AT:
TENUE À:
Westin Edmonton Hotel
l'Hôtel Westin Edmonton
10135 100th Street
10135, 100e rue
Edmonton, Alberta
Edmonton (Alberta)
June 20, 2006
Le 20 juin 2006
Transcripts
In order to meet the requirements of
the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings
before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the
listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public
hearings, and the Table of
Contents.
However, the aforementioned
publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript and, as such, is
taped and transcribed in
either of the official languages,
depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the
public hearing.
Transcription
Afin de rencontrer les exigences de
la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour
le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la
page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC
participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des
matières.
Toutefois, la publication
susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des délibérations et, en
tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre
des deux langues
officielles, compte tenu de la
langue utilisée par le
participant à l'audience
publique.
Canadian Radio‑television and
Telecommunications Commission
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
télécommunications canadiennes
Transcript / Transcription
Review of the
Commercial Radio Policy /
Examen de la
Politique sur la radio commerciale
BEFORE / DEVANT:
Michel Arpin
Chairperson / Président
Barbara Cram
Commissioner / Conseillère
Rita Cugini
Commissioner / Conseillère
Ronald Williams
Commissioner / Conseiller
Stuart Langford
Commissioner / Conseiller
ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI
PRÉSENTS:
Chantal Boulet
Secretary / Secrétaire
Joe Aguiar
Hearing Manager /
Gérant de l'audience
Anne-Marie Murphy/
Legal Counsel /
Shari Fisher
Conseillères juridiques
HELD AT:
TENUE À:
Westin Edmonton Hotel
l'Hôtel Westin Edmonton
10135 100th Street
10135, 100e rue
Edmonton, Alberta
Edmonton (Alberta)
June 20, 2006
Le 20 juin 2006
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE I (Cont.)
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION
PAR:
Bear Creek Broadcasting Ltd.
304 / 1984
Sun Country Cablevision Ltd. (OBCI)
351 / 2194
Jim Pattison Broadcast Group Ltd.
417 / 2495
Vista Radio Ltd.
491 / 2785
Crude Communications Inc.
543 / 3120
Standard Radio Inc.
618 / 3564
PHASE II
INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION
PAR:
Crude Communications Inc.
667 / 3865
Edmonton, Alberta / Edmonton (Alberta)
‑‑‑ Upon resuming on Tuesday, June
20, 2006 at 0834 /
L'audience reprend le mardi
20 juin 2006 à 0834
1979
THE CHAIRPERSON: Good
morning. Good morning,
everybody. Well people watched that
game last night because they are still resting. Obviously, they didn't have too big a
party, but we do from our own end our best. But that being said, we can move with
the rest of the agenda and calling the meeting open and I am asking the
Secretary to call for the next applicant.
1980
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
1981
We are now at Item 5 on the agenda, which is an application by Bear Creek
Broadcasting Ltd. for a licence to operate an English‑language FM commercial
radio programming undertaking in Grande Prairie.
1982
The new station would operate on frequency 103.3 MHz (channel 277C1) with
an effective radiated power of 100,000 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna
height of 256.6 metres).
1983
Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Ken Truhn who will introduce his
colleagues. You will then have 20
minutes for your presentation. Mr.
Truhn.
PRESENTATION /
PRÉSENTATION
1984
MR. TRUHN: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission,
CRTC staff, good morning. My name
is Ken Truhn and I am the President and majority shareholder of Bear Creek
Broadcasting Ltd.
1985
Before beginning our presentation I would like to introduce the other
members of our panel. On my far
left, to your right, is Mr. Alec Houssian who is one of Grande Prairie's most
prominent business people and whose corporate group represents one of the
biggest users of radio advertising in the market. Mr. Houssian has been a retailer in
Grande Prairie in excess of 30 years and has seen firsthand its significant
population expansion and market growth.
His family owns and operates Nevada Bob's, Action Sports, Ed's Menswear,
Town Centre Furniture as well as numerous commercial properties. Last summer Alec was able to gather some
very important feedback for me as to the acceptance of our format within the
local business community while I was putting together my
application.
1986
On my immediate left sitting next to Mr. Houssian is Mr. Brian Nash who,
along with being my best friend and partner in Bear Creek Broadcasting, is also
a prominent businessperson in Grande Prairie. Brian owns a travel and tour business, a
shopping centre, a trailer park and numerous other holdings. Brian, it should be noted as well, was
also a recipient of the Governor General of Canada's Commemorative Medal in
recognition of his contributions to multi‑cultural student exchanges between
Alberta and Quebec.
1987
To my immediate right is Mr. John Yerxa who is our Research Consultant
and advisor on this project. I have
been involved with John since the mid 1990s when he first began to work with
Monarch Broadcasting and over the years John Yerxa Research has conducted
numerous programming and advertiser research studies for me in Grande
Prairie. During my long tenure at
CJXX I feel that John played a pivotal role in the success of that
station.
1988
Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, we are now ready to begin our
presentation. Once again, my name
is Ken Truhn and I have spent all of my adult life, the past 27 years, in the
radio business. Within the past
year, however, I elected to walk away from a very successful job with one of the
larger broadcast groups in order to pursue a dream that has been growing inside
of me for many years. Today, I
appear before you as a 55 per cent shareholder in Bear Creek Broadcasting Ltd.
with my best friend and business partner, Brian Nash, who owns the other 45 per
cent.
1989
Brian and I formed this company to further my goal of owning a radio
station in Grande Prairie, the community where I have spent the majority of my
life and where I have spent the majority of my broadcast career. Brian and I have both invested heavily
in our community. We have been
involved in bringing many excellent events to the Grande Prairie area and have
supported numerous local initiatives along the way. Brian was instrumental in bringing the
Royal Bank Cup, the National Junior Hockey Championships, to Grande Prairie in
2004.
1990
More recently, I played a prominent role in securing the 2006 Ford World
Women's Curling Championship for our city.
This event, which I just finished chairing in March, was the most
successful world women's event ever held in terms of attendance and bottom line
return.
1991
Currently, Brian and I both serve on the Crystal Centre Advisory Board,
which provides expertise and direction in the operation of our community's
largest entertainment and sports complex.
Brian is also a sitting member of the Airport commission and the
provincial tourism board and I am completing a six‑year term on the Hospital
Foundation.
1992
Suffice it to say, for many years Brian and I have spent a great deal of
our time supporting the terrific community that we call home, Grande Prairie,
Alberta. Together, we also own and
operate one of the Peace Country's largest tourist attractions, Telus Country
Fever, an annual country music festival which has featured just about every
Canadian country act in existence.
It has showcased many new Canadian artists as well as established ones,
several of whom have written letters of support for our
application.
1993
As far as my background in radio is concerned, my career actually began
in Fort St. John in 1978 as a sportscaster. I moved back to Grande Prairie where I
did news for a year before moving into the sports director's role at CFGP, now
known as SUN FM. In 1980 I was
promoted into the sales department and spent 12 years in that role before
accepting a job as the General Sales Manager with Radioseven in Red Deer. After three and a half years I was
fortunate enough to be transferred back to Grande Prairie as the General Manager
of CJXX, which eventually became Big Country 93.1 and there I remained for 10
excellent years until a call for Grande Prairie applications was announced by
the CRTC.
1994
In the decade that I was General Manager at CJXX it became a
top‑producing station in terms of bottom line profit for both Monarch and
Pattison and for 10 years the station was continually recognized with both
corporate families for its achievements.
Of course, while I was at Big Country, my responsibility encompassed both
expense and revenue budgeting, so I have a firsthand knowledge of the market and
the money available in it.
1995
Members of the Commission, Grande Prairie is one of the most profitable
radio markets in Canada, but it has been severely underserved in terms of radio
for quite sometime.
1996
MR. NASH: Members of the
Commission, just before reviewing the economic situation in Grande Prairie, I
want to quickly add a couple of points about Ken and our partnership. Ken and I have known each other for over
20 years and we are not only long‑time business partners in the local country
music festival, but the very best of friends. We get along exceptionally well, even
when we do not agree with each other and I have absolute trust and faith in his
decision making ability.
1997
He is widely regarded in the business community as someone who will deal
with you fairly, honestly and with integrity and his experience in Grande
Prairie is a huge asset. Ken also
has extremely low staff turnover during his management of CJXX, which is a
pretty good indication of how much the staff like working with
him.
1998
The economic situation in Grande Prairie is red hot. In 2004 the Grande Prairie housing
market had a record year at 14 per cent growth. In 2005 housing starts in Grande Prairie
exceeded 1,000 units for the first time ever. And so far, to the end of May, 2006,
housing starts are up 83 per cent from 12 months ago. Housing prices are now reported to have
increased 30 per cent in the past year and in the past 10 years the cost of
housing has more than doubled.
1999
According to last years' census Grande Prairie's population is
44,631. However, expectations now
suggest the city population will increase by over 15 per cent in just the next
two years to approximately 52,000 by 2008.
2000
It has been reported that Grande Prairie's population is currently
growing by at least 250 people per month after having been declared the second
fastest growing city in Canada by CMHC in 2004. The average income in Grande Prairie at
approximately $70,000 is 15 per cent higher than the national average. Retail sales are reported at 108 per
cent above the national average.
Several retailers in our market continually ranked in the top five in
retail sales in Canada.
2001
Grande Prairie serves an area of 250,000 people within a radius of 200
kilometres. It has become a central
shopping area for North‑western Alberta and North‑eastern British Columbia. Millions of dollars flow over the B.C.
provincial border into Grande Prairie from communities such as Dawson Creek,
Chetwynd, Fort St. John and Fort Nelson.
2002
Our region is economically diverse.
Besides the booming oil industry we have a strong forestry presence
featuring Weyerhaeuser, Ainsworth and Canfor, and agriculture represents a
significant base as well. All of
these things now qualify Grande Prairie for more choices when it comes to
radio.
2003
MR. TRUHN: The last time a
new commercial radio station started in Grande Prairie was in the fall of 1979
when CJXX hit the airwaves. The
population at that time was 20,427 people.
Today, the population has more than doubled and yet we still only have
the two commercial FM stations. If
you are not a fan of country music your only alternative is Hot AC. We believe the market is more than ready
to support one, if not two, new radio stations adding diversity and choice to a
listening public that definitely wants it.
2004
I'm now going to turn the presentation over to John Yerxa, who will take
you through the research data.
2005
MR. YERXA: In the fall of
2004 my company conducted 400 random telephone interviews with adult, 18 to 54,
radio listeners in Grande Prairie.
Once respondents were selected we first studied their listening
behaviour, then probed their interest in five mainstream music formats and asked
whether they could identify an existing local station delivering each
one.
2006
The two most important calculations we performed were to identify the
percentage of listeners that expressed significant interest in each format as
well as the percentage that could not associate a local FM radio station with
each format. By comparing these two
results we were able to identify the largest musical hole or opportunity in the
market simply by examining the trade‑off between popularity and
availability.
2007
Obviously the more popular a music type is within the general population
or target group the more economically viable that format will tend to be. However, the most easily available a
music type is perceived to be the less opportunity it will have to grow as a
distinct format without cannibalizing another player in the market. Therefore, suffice it to say that the
more popular but less available a music type is the greater opportunity there is
for that format in a given market.
2008
Using this approach, we were able to determine that classic rock clearly
represents the best format opportunity in Grande Prairie, as it registered the
highest popularity of the groups we tested and was also perceived by adult
respondents to be the most difficult music type to find on the local FM
dial.
2009
MR. TRUHN: You will notice
that Mr. Yerxa's research highlighted the demand for classic rock, and yet I
have positioned our proposed station as a classic rock/classic hits hybrid. The reason I did this is because from
the time when CJXX was owned by Monarch Communications I did extensive research
in the marketplace with John and clearly understood that there was a hole for
both formats. But classic rock had
long been the most noticeable void in the market in survey after survey and I
simply wanted to reconfirm that fact with our research for this application,
knowing that the crossover between classic rock and classic hits is well
established.
2010
Indeed, at least one other applicant before you this week has suggested
that their proposed format could be termed either classic rock or classic
hits. However, a combined classic
rock/classic hits format, while focusing on the same era, would be somewhat
broader in its appeal than just classic rock and would allow us to mix in a much
greater selection of Canadian artists in order to meet our 40 per cent CanCon
commitment as well as supporting even more local and regional Canadian
talent.
2011
Looking at the overall play list, we would be co! 0834mbining classic
hits artists like!?! Fleetwood Mac; Corey Hart; Don Henley; Joni Mitchell; Huey
Lewis & The News; Glass Tiger; Men at Work; Alanis Morissette; Blondie;
Toto; Doug and the Slugs; Loverboy and the Eurythmics with classic rock artists
like the Rolling Stones; Tom Petty; Dire Straits; The Guess Who; Pink Floyd;
Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young; Blood, Sweat & Tears; Peter Frampton;
Bruce Springsteen; Rush, Van Halen; Bob Seger; April Wine; Santana; The Who and
BTO.
2012
In terms of overall balance, we intend to position our format as 65 per
cent classic rock and 35 per cent classic hits, given classic rock's stronger
appeal amongst target listeners.
But, if asked by the Commission to choose between these two formats, we
would definitely lean toward the classic rock position with classic hits as our
second choice.
2013
However, the real point worth making here is that the two largest and
most profitable holes on the Grande Prairie radio landscape are classic rocks
and classic hits as opposed to a format which is too current in terms of its
repertoire. If licensed, our
station would undoubtedly have the support of many 25 to 54‑year old listeners,
in particular 35 to 44‑year olds and the local business
community.
2014
We will also be bringing a new and independent information voice to
Grande Prairie by placing significant emphasis on local news and information
seven days per week. Based on my
long experience in Grande Prairie, I am well aware of the dependence our
listening community places on local information and that explains why it is a
staple element of our programming schedule. Our station will provide a total of 143
newscasts from 6:00 a.m. to just after 11:00 p.m. seven days a week. Moreover, the vast majority of our
spoken word will be live, as we are planning to have our news readers deliver
local news and information right up to 11:00 p.m. each weekday and up to 6:00
p.m. on Saturdays and Sundays.
2015
In total, we will have five fulltime news staff providing 12 hours and 15
minutes of news and information programming throughout the week, which I believe
is a greater news and information commitment than perhaps any other
applicant.
2016
We will also support numerous community organizations which require
radio's help, either with public service announcements or to help them achieve
their fundraising objectives.
2017
You will have noted from our application that we are proposing $60,000
annually in Canadian Talent Development initiatives for a total of $420,000 over
a seven‑year period. While this is
not the largest of the CTD amounts presented before you at this hearing, please
remember we are a small company looking to operate a single station. Therefore, while a couple of the larger
corporations should be applauded for their contributions to CTD, we believe
that, relative to our size, we are making a significant commitment to Canadian
Talent Development and our annual contributions will make a considerable
difference in the lives of the recipients.
2018
I wanted to quickly review the six initiatives. First, there is a $20,000 annual
contribution to a scholarship fund at the Grande Prairie Regional College for
students enrolled in fine arts.
This scholarship will be managed by a committee comprised of a
representative of the station, the president's office at the college and the
dean of the fine arts program at the college. That committee will determine the
recipients from year to year.
Second, there is a Prairie Art Gallery initiative in the amount of
$10,000 per year, which is a direct cash payment to the six programs outlined in
our deficiency response to the Commission dated December 5 of
2005.
2019
Third, there is our Community Development Foundation initiative, which
calls for a $5,000 per year cash payment to establish a scholarship for First
Nations students enrolled in the fine arts program at the local college. The Community Foundation would manage
this scholarship. Fourth, there is
a $5,000 initiative for Grande Prairie Little Theatre, which will be
administered by them. Fifth, there
is the Evergreen Park Talent Explosion initiative, which is an existing talent
competition we will support with a direct cash payment of $10,000. This program will continue to run and be
operated by Evergreen Park. Sixth,
we are choosing to support Summer Slam and Telus Country Fever, this initiative
calls for an annual $5,000 contribution to each festival and all of this money
will be used to pay for Canadian artists to appear on
stage.
2020
At this point, I would like to clarify a concern you may have with regard
to the money proposed for Telus Country Fever, which is listed as Spilchen's
Country Fever in the application but has undergone a sponsor change, hence the
name change. While the funds
allocated to this initiative will be paid directly to Canadian artists, upon
reviewing our application Brian and I realized that our ownership of the
festival will pose a conflict in the Commission's mind. Therefore, with your permission, we will
immediately reallocate those funds directly to ARIA.
2021
Moreover, if there are any other CTD initiatives which we have outlined
that are not acceptable to the Commission, we will immediately reallocate those
portions to ARIA as well. Please
understand, however, that our overall commitment to CTD is meant to ensure that
as many dollars as possible will be allocated locally, as we are firm believers
in directly supporting the community which supports our
business.
2022
MR. HOSSIAN: Mr. Chairman
and members of the Commission, last summer after discussing the Bear Creek
proposal with a number of fellow advertisers and business people in our
community, I informed Ken that it will be a success. With the feedback from a dozen or so
business people I contacted suggests that the application will succeed because
it attracts a large number of people who presently have no way of hearing the
music they grew‑up with on the local dial.
2023
Many of the fellow business men and women are interested and are
listeners because they cannot be reached that effectively through the existing
stations in Grande Prairie.
Moreover, most of the business people told me they will support this
station because of Ken's 24 years of radio service in our
community.
2024
MR. TRUHN: Mr. Chairman,
members of the Commission, in summary, we feel that Bear Creek should be awarded
a licence to operate a new FM radio station in Grande Prairie for the following
reasons. First, we believe our
business plan is solid because it is based on good research, advertiser feedback
and my knowledge of the market.
Second, we will be providing a distinct format to a market that is
virtually screaming for it. Third,
we will bring a new information voice to the Grande Prairie region and our five
fulltime news staff will be offering a significant amount of local news and
information in excess of 12 hours a week to the local
community.
2025
Fourth, we will not only create 24 new jobs in the radio industry, but
most importantly we will bring 24 new jobs, the most of any applicant before
you, to our hometown. Fifth, we
will reflect our community and its cultural diversity. Sixth, our CTD commitment, which we
believe is impressive for a company of our size, will significantly benefit its
recipients. Seventh, we are
independent. In a speech not long
ago to the BCAB, Chairman Dalfen emphasized the continuing importance of smaller
broadcasters and we believe our presentation before you today upholds the ideals
of that statement. Eighth, not only
are we independent, we are truly local.
Both Brian and I are long‑time residents of Grande Prairie and we are
deeply invested in and committed to our
community.
2026
Therefore, approval of this application will not only bring a new
independent owner, but a brand new local owner into the broadcast industry. And ninth, I personally bring a great
deal of broadcast experience to the table.
I have spent my entire adult life in the radio business and now I am
following a natural progression through the ranks to this position. I have always dreamed of owning and
operating my own station in Grande Prairie. I have the experience, the community
support and the desire to undertake this challenge.
2027
Thank you for the opportunity to make our presentation and we are open
for questions.
2028
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Truhn. Commissioner
Cugini.
2029
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Good
morning and thank you for being here promptly despite last night's upset. I guess I can now go back and cheer for
my home team and we don't have to disclose the name of that
team.
2030
My colleague yesterday did comment on how ‑‑ on the quality of the
applications submitted in this proceeding and the quality of the presentations
and certainly yours is no exception, but I do have some questions of
clarification.
2031
The first set of questions I would like to ask you is in regards to your
format, you describe it as a classic rock/classic hits format. Yesterday I believe, it was Newcap who
said that classic hits runs across a number of genres, whereas classic rock is
more of a contained definition.
First of all, do you agree with that and, second ‑‑ let us answer
that first, yes, do you agree with that definition of classic
hits?
2032
MR. TRUHN: I am going to
turn that question over to John Yerxa.
2033
MR. YERXA: Commissioner
Cugini, may I first answer that by quoting directly out of the Newcap
supplementary brief. Page 8, the
station might also brand itself as classic rock rather than classic
hits:
"It will be slightly more classic
rock than other classic hit stations."
"Fortunately, the two formats share a large number of artists and songs
between them."
2034
Page 8, Newcap application.
I completely agree, the fact is that there is tremendous crossover
between classic rock and classic hits.
There are a number of artists that are common to both formats, artists
ranging from Queen; John Mellencamp; Journey; The Police; The Eagles; Don
Henley; Canadian artists such as Neil Young; Loverboy; Brian
Adams.
2035
Both of these formats are successful because they focus on the same era,
basically the 1970s, the 1980s and the 1990s. Now, there are some differences and
variances depending upon the market that you are in. You have some classic hit stations that
focus more on the 1970s and the 1980s.
For example, a lot of work that I have done in the States, specific
stations we deal with, are a lot more classic rock or 1970s, 1980s focused. Other stations, for example, you had an
applicant before you here at first that said we want to be more of an 1980s and
1990s radio station.
2036
The key, however, is that these formats are successful because they
target an age group, the 35 to 54‑year old listener that wants to listen to the
music that they grew‑up with.
Particularly, in their late teens and early 20s, if you follow the
impressionable years model of broadcast programming, which means particularly
the average 45 to 50‑year old, someone who was around 20 years of age in the
late 1970s early 1980s.
2037
Now, if you take a format like, for example, the Jack concept when they
first launched, it was interesting because there was a tremendous amount
initially with the format as they presented, which was the early to
mid‑1980s. Now, that may have
seemed somewhat brilliant at the time given the hit/non‑hit parameters that we
have to deal with in Canadian radio, but what was particularly smart about it
was that they were focusing on the bulge or the peak in the baby boom population
in Canada, which generally lags the U.S. by a few years and so they were
appealing to that bulge in the population.
2038
We have other formats like the Bonneville format I mentioned that are
younger skewing. So classic hits
really it can lean more classic rock, depending upon the dynamics of the market,
or it can lean more pop and even towards AC if there is a large rock or classic
rock component available in the market.
So but let me just say that the statement that classic rock and classic
hits are diametrically opposed, have no similarities, is absolutely
wrong.
2039
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay,
let us take out the ors in your sentence and can you please tell me what this
application and what this radio station, if licensed, will focus on when it
reaps music from the classic hits format?
2040
MR. YERXA: Assuming that
this radio station is the only one licensed, then obviously it would try and be
as broad as it can be within the 35 to 54 demo, which means that our suggestion
would be say 65 per cent classic rock, 35 per cent classic hits, approximately
40 per cent 1960s and 1970s, 30 per cent 1980s, 15 1990s, 15 year 2000
forward.
2041
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Within
the classic hits?
2042
MR. YERXA: Yes, within
the ‑‑ it is about 65 per cent classic rock, 35 per cent classic hits,
knowing that a lot of these artists crossover. I gave you a list ‑‑ I mean, I
could give you a..
2043
For example, if I may, we did an analysis of the Jack format when it
first launched as it was picked up by Infinity in the United States and the top
30 most played artists on the Jack format were included among them at the top 30
U2; Journey; John Mellencamp; The Police, The Rolling Stones; Bob Seger; Steve
Miller; Foreigner; Queen; Genesis.
Keeping in mind this was the format that really got this whole concept of
classic hits moving. And of course,
if you look at what the 10 most played songs were initially when this format was
presented in various markets, Journey ‑ Don't Stop Believing; Queen ‑
Another One Bites the Dust; J. Geils ‑ Centrefold; John Mellencamp ‑
Jack and Diane; Police ‑ Every Breath You Take; Joan Jett ‑ I love
Rock `n' Roll.
2044
So once again classic hits, but as you can see, very very rock oriented
in its initial application in these markets. Keeping in mind, of course, that over
time, depending up on the competitive dynamic of the market, you may adjust to
move a little more this way, maybe a little more pop oriented, you may move a
little more in terms of era, maybe a little more towards the 1990s if all of a
sudden you have somebody who comes in and positions themselves as pure classic
rock.
2045
But that, in a nutshell, is really what I am recommending to the client
here, is if you are the only one licensed then a 65/35 split, knowing the
dynamic, the make‑up of the market, the psychographic of the market, knowing
that classic rock generally tends to skew a little more male and that up until
this time looking at the existing players in the market, SUN FM has generally
skewed more female, albeit at the younger end, whereas CJXX ‑‑ although, in
our particular study they had a male/female split ‑‑ they generally have
tended to skew more female. So you
have the two existing stations in the market which have generally skewed more
female, hence putting more emphasis on classic rock would position you a little
better in terms of the overall opportunity.
2046
Now, of course, if you were to licence two stations in the market, it is
a whole different ballgame.
2047
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And we
will get to that.
2048
MR. YERXA:
Okay.
2049
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So this
radio station will not broadcast or will not include any contemporary hits,
music, on its play list? In other
words, we are not going to hear Britney Spears or Madonna's new song or anybody
else from 2000 on?
2050
MR. YERXA: You will
hear ‑‑ we say 15 per cent and, frankly, most of that if not all of it is
CanCon. Because given the
significant commitments now that broadcasters are making, the 40 per cent CanCon
commitment, the key now ‑‑ and really it is a win‑win I guess, because you
are giving these new Canadian artists an opportunity, be they classic or say
rock oriented or say hits oriented, giving them exposure on the radio. But the key is that the challenge is you
have to pick these artists that you can common thread and meld into the format
without being schizophrenic. And
you are going to find that most stations across the country, whether they are
classic hits, adult contemporary doesn't matter, we have these commitments, we
live up to them and that freshens the format, because you can't play April Wine
to death.
2051
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank
you. You did say in your opening
remarks that you are committed to 40 per cent Canadian
content?
2052
MR. TRUHN: Yes, we
are.
2053
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And you
will accept that as a condition of licence?
2054
MR TRUHN:
Absolutely.
2055
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Okay. Based on your
research, and you mentioned it this morning as well, you did say the classic
rock was the most popular, but you didn't ‑‑ did you ask the question about
classic hits?
2056
MR. YERXA: No, I normally do
that. And as you can appreciate, I
deal with numerous clients across the country and at the time that Ken contacted
me it was a very short phone call and he just said I want you to do a study, we
have done a lot of work in the market, here is what I want to test, I want to be
as distinct as I can, let us do classic rock, let us do country, let us do adult
contemporary, you know, let us do the top.. In other words, he said to me here is
what I want to do, we know what the market.. but confirm this for me, is this
the best opportunity and so that is what we
did.
2057
Of course, I didn't even know at the time really what he was after. I didn't know he was, you know, because
he is not going to tell everybody in the industry that he is maybe going after a
licence, he was probably testing the waters and so that is what we
tested.
2058
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And
based on that then can you tell us why you did add classic
hits?
2059
MR. YERXA: Well, we had done
numerous research studies and we had done a lot of qualitative research as well
and we knew about the crossover and I suppose that was probably as much my fault
in the sense that when there was a call for the applications and I said to Ken
are you going to be going after this.
I had just said to him offhand, you know, if you are going to go for it
and you get the licence you should be as broad as possible. And given the success of the Jack and
Joe formats, although more Jack because it is more rock oriented, you know, you
may want to consider being a kind of a hybrid format. So I may have thrown him off in that
regard, but certainly we confirmed the classic rock format as being the best
opportunity in the research.
2060
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And
your suggestion was made after you conducted your
research?
2061
MR. YERXA: Well again, I
didn't ‑‑ remember, I just get
calls from people and they say just do this, do that, study this and six months
later he said guess what, I am going to go after a format in Grande Prairie and
that study you did for me, I am going to use that as a base and what do you see,
based on your knowledge of what is happening across the country, what do you
think we should do if we were successful.
And so that is what I suggested he do, to branch out. But, as I said, if you were to licence
two stations there is going to be a mad scramble to see who gets on the air
first. And, of course, the first
one in is going to ‑‑ I would recommend position themselves one way and
then, of course, the other one is going to have to react.
2062
Now, heaven knows if all of a sudden SUN FM decides to flip format in the
next six months then, of course, all bets are off and that is the reality of
this business. But the key, of
course, is that in that market it will be quite possible for anybody to find a
very distinct and very meaningful hole to fill.
2063
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Well,
since you have now raised the question twice, I will take this opportunity and
perhaps ask you, Mr. Truhn, how many radio stations do you believe the Grande
Prairie market can support?
2064
MR. TRUHN: New radio
stations?
2065
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: New
radio stations.
2066
MR. TRUHN: Two for
sure.
2067
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And do
you believe that one format over another would be more or less
successful?
2068
MR. TRUHN: Well, as John
alluded to, I believe that the classic rock format, if I had to choose between
the two, would be the more successful of the two choices with classic hits as a
second choice.
2069
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: We have
an application before us for a gospel radio station, as you may have heard
yesterday. Do you believe
that ‑‑ or what do you think if we were to licence them plus
two?
2070
MR. TRUHN: As far as the
listening audience goes, I don't think that that would be a significant
factor. Obviously, anytime you put
another player into the market in terms of the revenue side of things, you know,
that will play a bit of a factor, but overall I don't see that as a big
challenge in the market place.
2071
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay,
we will now move onto the specifics of your application and the area of spoken
word and your commitments. In your
application I believe you committed to 10 hours of news, weather and sports and
six hours of PSAs and liners. And
then in response to deficiency questions you said it was nine hours of news,
weather and sports and three hours of PSAs and liners. Could you tell us what your commitment
is to spoken word?
2072
MR. TRUHN: Absolutely. In the supplementary brief where I
outlined nine hours that was simply a mistake, it should have read
10.
2073
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So and
in the area of PSAs and liners?
2074
MR. TRUHN: Well it is six,
but I also included a 24‑hour clock there, so from 6:00 a.m. to midnight I
committed to a minimum of 10 hours of news and spoken word, plus three hours of
PSA, the other three hours would have run between midnight and 6:00 and I
realize that, you know, we are talking about a 6:00 a.m. to midnight time
clock.
2075
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Okay. Now, in terms of the
news, weather and sports you also ‑‑ you repeated it today I believe.. Sorry, can you remind me of how many
newscasts?
2076
MR. TRUHN: One hundred and
forty‑three.
2077
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: What is
the length of those newscasts?
2078
MR. TRUHN: They vary
anywhere from three and a half minutes to seven and a half
minutes.
2079
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And
does that include weather and sports?
2080
MR. TRUHN:
Yes.
2081
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And in
terms of local news, of those three and a half to seven minutes how much of that
will be local?
2082
MR. TRUHN: Seventy‑five per
cent of the news will be local, 75 per cent of the sports and obviously 100 per
cent of the weather.
2083
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And the
other 25 per cent will be national and international
stories ‑‑
2084
MR. TRUHN:
Yes.
2085
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: ‑‑ when they break? Thank you. In the area of CTD your presentation
this morning was very clear in outlining your commitments to Canadian Talent
Development. You are proposing a
$20,000 annual commitment to the Grande Prairie Regional College fine arts
program?
2086
MR. TRUHN:
Yes.
2087
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And
that is for a scholarship program?
2088
MR. TRUHN:
Yes.
2089
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: How
many scholarships are you planning or how many scholarships is the college
planning on offering with that $20,000 annual
contribution?
2090
MR. TRUHN: A minimum of
four, you know, and that would depend on the quality of the applications that
were received for it each year.
2091
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And
will you have any participation in selecting who ‑‑
2092
MR. TRUHN:
Yes.
2093
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: ‑‑ would receive those
scholarships?
2094
MR. TRUHN: There will be a
member of the radio station, likely myself, sitting on the selection
board.
2095
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And the
$10,000 per year to Evergreen Park for sponsorship of their talent exposition,
do you have a budget breakdown on how that $10,000 will be
spent?
2096
MR. TRUHN: That money was to
go directly to the winners of the competition, the top five, you know, broken
out, you know, appropriately with more for first place obviously and less for
last place, but directly to the winners of that
competition.
2097
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And
will you participate at all in the selection of the winners of that
competition?
2098
MR. TRUHN: No, that will be
done by an independent panel, as it always is with that
contest.
2099
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay,
thank you. And if we are to accept
your initiatives in Canadian Talent Development as you mentioned today with the
relocation of funds from the Telus Country Fever to ARIA you will accept that as
a COL?
2100
MR. TRUHN:
Yes.
2101
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Okay. Now in terms of your
business plan, despite what you may have heard yesterday, you are one of the
highest in terms of your projections for revenue from the market. I do appreciate your comments today on
how much you know the market and your experience in the market, but could you
give us the rationale for your revenue
projections?
2102
MR. TRUHN: Well obviously,
because of my experience, I know what the money being spent on the two
incumbents is each year. I have
also done some research in regard to what Peace River Broadcasting is taking out
of the marketplace and what the standard stations are getting out of the
marketplace. I was able to derive a
total of approximately $8.6 to $9 million somewhere in that range as it existed
a year ago. My understanding is is
that we haven't gone through a recession in Grande Prairie, so that number is
likely a little bit higher, closer to the $9 million I would estimate in the
radio market at this present time.
2103
I was around in 1979 working for COG when CJXX came on the air. There was some concern at that time, you
know, from the original radio station that advertisers would cut, you know,
their marketing budgets in half or at least not spend as much with them. And the truth of the matter was the
market expanded significantly and COG saw a huge increase in advertising
revenues that very first year. I
suspect that it won't be quite the same with the addition or a third and/or
fourth radio station, but I do expect that the market will expand by a little in
excess of 10 per cent, I think it will be a $10 million market, you know, once
this all shakes out.
2104
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And so
your projections were obviously based on one more, just
one?
2105
MR. TRUHN: Our business plan
was derived based on one more applicant being added to the
market.
2106
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: By how
much would you reduce your projections if we were to licence two? A percentage, just give me a
percentage.
2107
MR. TRUHN: You know, I would
have to say around 15, 20 per cent.
2108
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Around
15 per cent?
2109
MR. TRUHN:
Yes.
2110
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay,
thank you. As you know, there are
more than one frequencies available in the market. Have you done a study to determine
whether or not any of the other frequencies, other than the one for which you
have applied, would suffice or would meet your needs?
2111
MR. TRUHN: We haven't done
an actual study, no. But obviously,
there is a wide range of frequencies available and certainly if we had to choose
another one there are more options in the market that would, you know, suit our
needs.
2112
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And so
another frequency would be acceptable to you?
2113
MR. TRUHN:
Absolutely.
2114
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: There
are just ‑‑ sorry, there is one more question I forgot to ask and perhaps,
Mr. Yerxa, you could answer. In
your presentation this morning you did say that your target audience is 35 to
44‑year olds?
2115
MR. YERXA: The broad target
is 35 ‑ 54.
2116
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Right.
2117
MR. YERXA: Are you looking
for a median age?
2118
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Well,
your presentation this morning, if licensed our station would undoubtedly have
the support of many 25 to 54‑year olds listeners ‑‑
2119
MR. YERXA: That's the broad
target.
2120
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: ‑‑ in particular, 35 to
44.
2121
MR. YERXA:
Thirty‑five ‑ 54 actually.
So it is ‑‑ 35 ‑ 44 is probably the core, you know, that is
your 10‑year sweet spot. But if you
are going to play more classic rock, it is going to skew a little higher,
35 ‑ 54.
2122
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And you
anticipated, yes, and so what is the median age of your
listener?
2123
MR. YERXA: Let us give it a
42.
2124
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Male or
female?
2125
MR. YERXA: Skewing more male
with the classic rock component.
2126
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And
when you mix in the classic hits format?
2127
MR. YERXA: It is going to be
skewing more male because we will be two‑thirds classic rock
hopefully.
2128
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay,
thank you. Thank you very much, Mr.
Chairman, those are all my questions.
2129
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Commissioner Cugini. Commissioner
Langford.
2130
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
2131
I want to go back to this question of your format. And without seeming in any way rude, I
don't need anymore enthusiasm, I got the picture that you really like it and you
think it is going to do it. What I
am trying to find out is how you would react, in a strategic sense, should we be
licensing you and someone else very very close? And I think you touched on it ‑‑
John is the first name, I can't remember the second name, sorry, this
gentleman.
2132
MR. YERXA: John is
fine.
2133
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: John,
okay. Well, it doesn't look too
good on the record if we are all on a first name basis does it? Yerxa, that is it, thank you,
sorry. Later in history you will
say gee, these two brothers were handing licenses out to each other. We don't like that image
here.
2134
It is almost difficult for me to phrase this question, though I have had
time to think about it since your very interesting description. But there are about five other
applications in front of us which have chosen, at least in their words and in
their descriptions, something very very similar. Pattison, O.K., Crude, a number of them
anyway. So what happens if we
licence, for example, you and one of them?
And just for the sake of argument, I am looking for a strategy now, we
happen to licence the one that is as close to your chosen format as possible,
what do you do?
2135
MR. YERXA: Okay, there
are ‑‑ first of all, I know there are three applicants that Ken would
definitely be hurt by or threatened by.
There are three applicants and I know you are going to ask him that in a
few minutes, who would hurt you. He
can deal with that.
2136
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Well,
you might as well name them.
2137
MR. YERXA:
Okay.
2138
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Helps
us.
2139
MR. YERXA: Do you want me to
name them?
2140
MR. TRUHN: Well obviously,
if we were granted a licence, you know, the most harmful effect to our business
plan is going to come from the two incumbents and from the standard stations
which are Standard, which has stations in Fort St. John and Dawson Creek and,
you know, would have an opportunity to leverage in ‑‑ in the
marketplace.
2141
MR. YERXA: So having said
that, assuming one of the incumbents doesn't get it and create an imbalance,
unless of course you want to give both of them that which may happen, but it
really doesn't matter. The
key ‑‑ unless you want to make, format a COL and that is not in the cards,
so therefore get on the air, scramble as quickly as you can, position yourself
and number two in they position themselves accordingly and everything will shake
out. And you have seen that happen
in numerous markets and, of course, you also recognize that upon licensing an
incumbent could even switch and muddy the waters, so it really doesn't
matter.
2142
We have identified a couple of very profitable opportunities in the
market. The key is get on the air,
get there first.
2143
MR. TRUHN: I might add,
Commissioner Langford, if we were in the position where we lost the race to get
on the air first, obviously we are going to have to ensure that whatever format
we choose is appropriate for the market.
So we would do ‑‑ you know, we would conduct some more research and
be absolutely sure of what that second position is, you know, given the
circumstances and whatever the first one on the air chose as a
format.
2144
MR. YERXA: And that is a
very important point, because I was quite interested in hearing at one of the
other ‑‑ well, another one of the incumbents state that, you know, if you
give us a licence well we are going to take our existing station and move this
way, which I don't think is great news for Standard in their application,
because that is where they are going to move. They want to become more mainstream AC
pop.
2145
But that is what may happen, whether you give them a licence or whether
you give someone else, assuming that rock hole is filled, then that existing
station may have to adjust accordingly to narrow their
focus.
2146
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Is
there a scenario that would cause you to have to make more than an adjustment,
in other words more than an even kind of a tuning? In other words, you just have to choose
a whole new market niche?
2147
MR. YERXA: If one of
the ‑‑ let us assume one of the incumbents, heaven forbid, says I am going
after one of the ‑‑ well, this is great research everybody has brought
forward and let us do it, that is a huge hole, we didn't really realize it was
there. If they switch, they are
going to create an opportunity and some hybrid opportunities around whatever
they vacate. The market is big
enough. There is two stations. You know, at any given time you have
probably got four mainstream formats that are available and, generally speaking,
regardless of population, so..
2148
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
you can adjust is what you are saying, even to a dramatic encroachment on your
plans, on your plan territory there is still room out there for you to come up
with a new plan?
2149
MR. TRUHN:
Absolutely.
2150
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. Now, let me just go
back, Mr. Truhn, to your response about the kind of nightmare scenario
here. And I am going to give you a
piece of good news and then I am going to give you a piece of bad news, but it
is all hypothetical. I am just
trying to figure out, because you have the Grande Prairie experience and it kind
of gives me the notion that you could probably respond to this almost better
than anybody, with the possible exception of the two
incumbents.
2151
Assume for a moment, hypothetically, that we licence you, but assume as
well that we licence the two incumbents, nightmare scenario. So they each got two FMs, maintain some
kind of balance. But we want to
bring a new voice in. So we have
two incumbents with two stations each, synergies, market power, all that stuff
you know about, and then you because we want to bring diversity to the market or
we want to encourage a new player.
2152
I am kind of painting this scenario pretty quickly off the top of my
head. But what I am looking for is
how you would react to that, if you could react to it, could you survive, could
you thrive in a scenario like that?
2153
MR. TRUHN: I think,
obviously, in that scenario that would be about as bad as it could get. Do I think I could survive? Absolutely. I have a strong base in the community
and I think that, you know, would stand me in good stead. Would it be tough? There is no question. You know, I had some experience in Red
Deer when I was the general sales manager there for RadioSeven in a situation
that has been corrected recently of where we were a standalone AM station
against an FM and a country AM station and it is extremely tough. It is very competitive, it tends to
affect the price of the product and not in a positive way, but they obviously
survived. And I believe, you know,
given my experience in Grande Prairie, we would survive as
well.
2154
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Thanks very much. I don't
want to give you nightmares, but I just ‑‑ you might as well go to the
extreme, in a sense, to get your reaction and then pull back from there and, you
know, as I said you are on the ground, you are there, you know the area and if
you think it can be done, I mean, that is something we have to take into
consideration.
2155
Those are my questions, Mr. Chair, thank
you.
2156
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Commissioner Langford. Picking up
on your last reply, if you were or if the two incumbents would get each an FM
licence and you are to get one and obviously, as you said you got to be.. Will that impair your ability to do the
local news and the spoken word and local programming or where will you make the
cuts?
2157
MR. TRUHN: Well, you know,
given that situation I think we would, you know, review our whole business plan
obviously. We are committed to our
news and spoken word programming, it is a big deal in markets the size of Grande
Prairie. They rely on the radio
stations for all of the local information and relevant
news.
2158
I think obviously we would have to look at our, you know, at our staffing
in a situation like that. The news
department is not an area that we would cut dramatically because it is still a
key element in our programming. We
would look for, you know, other areas long before we looked at that
area.
2159
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Commissioner Cram.
2160
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
2161
I wanted to ask a couple of questions. Thank you very much for the part that
starts off with your broadcasting staff grid. And you started in the first page
talking about no automation during the broadcast week. And so, just to be fair to you, would
you accept that as a COL that you would be live‑to‑air during the entirety of
the broadcast week?
2162
MR. TRUHN: Yes absolutely,
unless Commissioner Langford's worst case scenario came into
play.
2163
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So that
is where you would start making the cuts, would be the live‑to‑air
issue?
2164
MR. TRUHN: We would have to
definitely take a look at automation in some areas of the day for
sure.
2165
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Secondly,
you were talking with my colleague, Commissioner Cugini, about a minimum of 10
hours news, but this actually shows ‑‑ your newscast grid, the third page
of that shows a total of ‑‑ oh Lord I didn't add it ‑‑ nine, 10, 11,
12 ‑‑ oh yes, 12 hours and 15 minutes.
2166
MR. TRUHN: Yes, it
does. I think if you look at our
application when we originally wrote it I said a minimum of 10 hours each
week. Once I actually developed the
grid it worked out to 12 hours and 15 minutes.
2167
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. So and when I look at
it it goes up to 11:00 at night both during the week and on the
weekends?
2168
MR. TRUHN:
Yes.
2169
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Do any of
the incumbents do this?
2170
MR. TRUHN: To the best of my
knowledge..
2171
COMMISSIONER CRAM: You don't
listen to them?
2172
MR. TRUHN: I am a rabid fan
of country or of country radio in Grande Prairie based on my experience but,
yes, I listen to them both. To the
best of my knowledge Big Country provides it for a longer period of time up
until at least 11:00 I believe.
2173
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
2174
MR. TRUHN: It is not always
live, but it is there.
2175
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay, I
get your point. And there has been
a fair bit of talk about the incumbents.
I guess I need to know, given that we have on more than one occasion
licensed the incumbents in order to keep a competitive balance, why should we
not do that in this case?
2176
MR. TRUHN: Well, I think if
you licence the two incumbents you certainly do keep a competitive balance for
them. It doesn't necessary add as
much diversity to the marketplace as you would by licensing two new
players. And I think that, you
know, there has to be some opportunity for independent broadcasters to get into
this business. And whereas the two
incumbents would probably like that, I certainly wouldn't.
2177
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you. Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
2178
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Commissioner Cram. Well, we are
almost to the end of your appearance and I will give you two minutes to sum up
and tell the Commission why you should be granted the
licence.
2179
MR. TRUHN: Thank you. I am not going to reiterate all the
points I made at the end of our oral presentation. I just have a quick quick
summary.
2180
I know the Commission appreciates independents like us participating in
this process, after all the industry has become extremely consolidated in recent
years. At the same time I realize
you probably hear this kind of statement from those of us vying for a licence
against the larger broadcast companies.
2181
Here is what I truly think differentiates me from some of the other
independents. I won't be appearing
before you in the Fort McMurray hearing, nor will I be appearing before you in
the upcoming hearings in Medicine Hat, Regina or Saskatoon. Grande Prairie is where my life is, has
been and it is where it is going to continue to be. Having spent 27 years in the broadcast
business I guess I put it all on the line this one time to pursue a career dream
in the community that I grew‑up in and I would respectfully ask you for that
opportunity. Thank
you.
2182
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you. The legal people have a
question for you. I apologize, I
should have asked them before, but here we are.
2183
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
want you to know that the rest of us are not illegal
though.
2184
MS MURPHY: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
2185
Just a clarification with respect to your commitment by condition of
licence for Canadian content Category 2 musical selections. We would like to confirm that that
commitment relates both to CanCon throughout the broadcast week as well as for
the period from Monday to Friday 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
2186
MR. TRUHN: Yes, it
does.
2187
MS MURPHY: Thank you. Those are my questions, Mr.
Chairman.
2188
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you. Thank you, Mr. Truhn. Thank you to your people. We will take a 10‑minute break and we
will move to the next item.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 0931 /
Suspension à 0931
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 0947 / Reprise
à 0947
2189
THE CHAIRPERSON: Ms
Secretary.
2190
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
2191
We are now at Item 6 on our agenda, which is an application by Sun
Country Cablevision Ltd. on behalf of a corporation to be incorporated for a
licence to operate an English‑language FM commercial radio programming
undertaking in Grande Prairie. The
new station would operate on frequency 103.3MHz (channel 277C1) with an
effective radiated power of 100,000watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna height
of 256.6metres).
2192
For the record and in response to the Commission's questions, the
applicant has filed documents updating the ownership information relating to Sun
Country Cablevision Ltd. These
documents can be viewed on the application file which is in the examination
room.
2193
Appearing for the applicant today is Mr. Ted Pound, who will introduce
his colleagues. You will have 20
minutes for your presentation.
Please go ahead.
PRESENTATION /
PRÉSENTATION
2194
MR. POUND: Thank you. Good morning. Mr. Chairman, commissioners and
Commission staff, my name is Ted Pound.
I am the President of Sun Country Cablevision, I am a founding director
and shareholder of Sun Country Cablevision, which serves communities of Salmon
Arm, Enderby and Armstrong in British Columbia for the past 21 years. Details of my 30 plus years of senior
broadcast experience are noted in the application, not including the recent
award of the Alberta Centennial Medal for outstanding community service by the
Province of Alberta.
2195
On my far right is Walter Gray and on my left is Ron East, both are
founding directors, shareholders of Sun Country and past Presidents of the
British Columbia Association of Broadcasters. Between the three of us we have more
than 110 years of radio business experience in small and medium markets. The fourth of our Sun Country directors
is Mike Hall on my immediate right, the youngest son of the late Bob Hall. Mike was one of the inaugural employees
of Sun Country Cable and has earned his way through the ranks to become the
company's General Manager and now Managing Director.
2196
Mr. Gray is a former Mayor of Kelowna. Initially, Mr. Gray and Mr. Bob Hall
established and operated radio stations in Salmon Arm, Revelstoke, Kelowna and
established a mini radio network in the adjacent West Kootenay. Mr. Gray has been the President of the
Chamber of Commerce, Director of the CAB and Radio Bureau of Canada. He received the BCAB Broadcaster of the
Year Award in 1993. For eight years
he served as board member of Telefilm Canada.
2197
Mr. East has had a significant radio career and a background,
specifically working out of Prince George where he and the late Stan Davis
established a radio company that services 18 communities in central British
Columbia. Mr. East is very involved
in his community and he was instrumental in the founding of the University of
Northern British Columbia in Prince George.
2198
The other members of our panel, on my far left is Elder Angie Crerar,
President of the Métis Nation, Grande Prairie. Elder Crerar is Canada's most recent
recipient of the Governor General's Caring Canadian Award. In the back row we have Mr. Mel
Brundige, Media Consultant, with over 30 years broadcast experience in radio
sales and management. Mr. Brundige
is a Radio Bureau of Canada CMM, that is a Certified Marketing Manager, and has
served on the Radio Executive Committee of BBM for over 13
years.
2199
Mr. Howard Foot, Media Consultant, is a broadcast veteran with over 40
years of sales, management and ownership experience in Canadian newspaper, radio
and television companies. Mr. Don
Turri, CACFP, is a partner with MacKay LLP Chartered Accountants and Chairman of
MacKay LLP Partnership, a firm with offices throughout British Columbia, Alberta
and the Northwest Territories.
2200
Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, I would be pleased to start our
oral presentation.
2201
Mr. Gray, Mr. East and I formed our business alliance over 35 years
ago. The three of us share the
values of radio excellence and outstanding community service. We believe that there is a remarkable
opportunity Grande Prairie to introduce our founding principles of community
radio excellence, relevant radio with a big community heart, radio that Grande
Prairie citizens have invited us to bring to their growing
community.
2202
To assure that the Sun Country community service vision is focused and
relevant in Grande Prairie, it is our commitment to establish a community
advisory board. We are committed to
the development and support of local Canadian music talent under the guidance of
a knowledged professional in the business of Canadian and international music
development. Our classic rock
format, along with a strong commitment to news and spoken word, are well
researched and targeted for the market.
2203
MR. EAST: My career has been
involved with small and intermediate size radio markets for over 50 years. I have observed many similarities
between central British Columbia and Northern Alberta. The dynamic growth that Grande Prairie
has experienced shows no signs of slowing, the result is an extremely rich radio
advertising market at Grande Prairie.
2204
Later in our presentation Mr. Brundige and Mr. Foot will focus your
attention on their findings, both from their statistical review and their one on
one interviews of local Grande Prairie merchants. What exists before us today is a
two‑radio station market serving a trading area of 120,000 and there is no local
TV station which would normally be in existence in a market this size. And there are resident sales persons in
Grande Prairie whose job it is to sell advertising for the Dawson Creek and Fort
St. John, B.C. stations and the nearby Peace River radio stations. There is also a resident salesperson
selling for CFRN TV out of Edmonton.
2205
The Grande Prairie broadcast advertising market is significant for the
population size. We firmly believe
there is plenty of room to establish at least one other local radio station at
Grande Prairie.
2206
MR. POUND: Sun Country is
proposing a classic rock FM radio station for Grande Prairie with a heavy
emphasis on community news, sports, features and events. Our radio station will be the voice for
local community groups and musicians to promote awareness and showcase their
talents. We will reflect the spirit
of this diverse and growing community by involving local groups, organizations
and individuals.
2207
Radio listeners currently have limited listening choices. Our music format will fill the
void. Our music format will consist
of a mix between classic rock and new rock with a 70/30 percentage split. The blended music will average a minimum
of 35 per cent Canadian content, 40 per cent in the new rock category. Research we have done on the market
supports our classic rock format.
We are targeting an audience that skews slightly higher male between the
ages of 25 and 54 with our core audience 35 to 44 and our median age is
39.
2208
We are committed to contributing over $735,600 in cash and in‑kind local
support to Canadian Talent Development; $231,000 is in cash, $504,000 is in‑kind
support. We will support the small
market Canadian Association of Broadcasters, Canadian Development Plan
initiative with $21,000 in cash over the period of a licence that will be
directed to the Alberta Recording Industries Association Canadian Talent
Development. Our CTD plan includes
college scholarships, talent searches with airtime support and available digital
studio production time.
2209
Grants to local musicians and a regular air schedule to support local
Canadian talent. This commitment
includes 21 30‑second commercials per week showcasing new Canadian album
releases. Sun Country is a member
of ARIA, the Alberta Recording Industries Association, whose mandate is to
support excellence, diversity and vitality of American artists and the Alberta
recording industry.
2210
To help coordinate our Canadian Talent Development commitments Mr. Neil
MacGonigill, President of Indelible Music Inc., has agreed to join our community
advisory board. Neil has spent over
35 years nurturing and developing and guiding the careers of Canadian artists
such as Jann Arden, KD Lang, Paul Brandt and Ian Tyson. The experience has given him a unique
perspective pertaining to the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead for a
new generation of Canadian music talents.
2211
We are aware of our in‑kind support will not qualify in CRTC terms of
Canadian Talent Development, but believe the dedicated initiatives are
significant and bring value to our application.
2212
Our morning show, like all on‑air programs, will be focused on what is
important to our listeners of Grande Prairie. Our news, sports, weather and road
reports will be focused on providing local information first. We will employ three fulltime news staff
members plus local stringers to cover the issues that are important to our
community. During an average week
in the category news‑related surveillance we will commit 313 minutes of news,
weather, road reports and sports.
We will broadcast 58 separate newscasts with sports
highlights.
2213
In the general interest spoken word category we will commit to 316
minutes that will include a five‑minute Aboriginal program twice a week. As part of our commitment to the local
sports and recreational groups within that community we plan to recognize and
salute the local volunteers, the coaches and athletes through a weekly program
called Local Heroes. Providing over
30 years of airtime during the week for this program in a series of 60‑second
features.
2214
Black Gold will highlight the history and events of the oil patch in a
daily 60‑second feature that will air 21 times during the week. We will focus on the agricultural
community with a daily 60‑second feature aired 21 times a week. Our daytime programming will be live
from 6:00 a.m. until 6:00 p.m. throughout the work week, 10:00 a.m. until 6:00
p.m. on Saturdays and 10:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. on Sundays to start, but we
plan to add more live programming as the station matures and
grows.
2215
At the heart of every community are non‑profit community groups working
with thousands of volunteers. Our
goal is to give them free access to our airwaves on a regular basis to promote
their fundraising events, ask for volunteers and raise the level of awareness in
the community for their cause.
As apart of our commitment to the local community we are offering free
access to our airwaves through a 60‑second feature that will run once an hour,
24 hours a day, over two and a half hours a week.
2216
When 103.3 signs on the air we will also launch our 103.3 Grande Prairie
Children's Charity, Children Are Champions. The charity will focus on raising funds
to help children in the Grande Prairie area. A non‑profit organization will be set‑up
to raise those funds then distribute them to needy organizations, families and
projects. Our community advisory
board will screen and evaluate the many different organizational projects
submitted that deal with children in the area. Whether it is a new playground, expenses
for families to travel to larger centres for health treatments or simply paying
for children for financially‑challenged families to participate in recreational
activities, we will make a difference to Grande Prairie
families.
2217
We are committed to working with the Grande Prairie Community College in
the development of a local radio broadcast course that will develop local
broadcasters and broadcast journalists.
We will actively support the broadcast practicum programs of other
Alberta broadcast schools in all facets of our
operation.
2218
MR. EAST: Now to the market
dynamics of our proposal. We will
review the potential advertising dollars available from the market, the basis of
our projections, the sources of new radio revenues and unusual revenue
circumstances of this very buoyant market.
2219
Mr. Foot will now review the attitude of the business community toward
the idea of a new Grande Prairie radio station.
2220
MR. FOOT: I have been
involved in local media sales for the past 40 years, 26 of those years in local
radio sales. As a result of 43
in‑person interviews that I conducted over a year ago in Grande Prairie with
that business community I identified the following factors. Number one, the rates charged by the two
local stations were felt to be too high.
Number two, the advertisers want to spend more money on radio, but the
local stations are sold out much of the time. Number three, there is a general feeling
that the stations are operating as fat cats.
2221
Number four, with the tremendous economic health of the market more and
more companies are moving into Grande Prairie and this puts even more strain on
the amount of airtime available to businesses for advertising. Number five, the Friday edition of the
local Herald‑Tribune newspaper is loaded with flyers and is of the size that you
would expect in a much larger market.
Number six, the major reason for optimism is that 76.7 per cent of the
businesses that I talked with are definitely in support of another radio station
in Grande Prairie.
2222
In summation, I would just like to say that if I was 30 years younger I
would love to sell advertising for Sun Country's new radio station for Grande
Prairie, because I feel it would be a very successful
career.
2223
MR. EAST: Mr. Brundige will
now review the distribution of new advertising dollars and the results of a
statistical approach to this radio market.
2224
MR. BRUNDIGE: I am here
today to give you some background on the revenue projections I prepared for the
Sun Country application. The
projections were prepared using two methodologies. As a percentage of retail trade in the
county and from per capita spending on radio advertising in Northern Alberta,
which was obtained from a special Statistics Canada report, both methodologies
indicated a radio market of approximately $5 million, this is for 2004, which is
a reasonable number for a market the size of Grande
Prairie.
2225
Both methods, however, suffered from the disadvantage of using average
numbers from wide geographical areas and applying them to a small geographical
area, the County of Grande Prairie.
A visit to the market lead me to conclude that it was an extremely hot
market undergoing frantic growth that would probably continue for a number of
years. A restaurant I went to had
only half its tables opened because they could not hire enough staff to service
the entire restaurant. The hotel I
stayed in had a list of job fairs on its happening this week board that
indicated three to four a day for the next seven days for various
companies.
2226
Projecting revenue with any degree of accuracy in a market situation such
as you find in Grande Prairie is very difficult. But I concluded that, based on my
previous research in the extremely hot marketplace, that a number in excess of
$6 million was probably correct for 2004.
I worked in Prince George in the 1960s when it was a very hot market and
I knew that the radio revenue would be very high for two reasons, every ad
campaign would work and the retailers were making so much money that normal
percentages went by the wayside and ad budgets of 6 and 7 per cent would not be
uncommon as opposed to the normal 3 to 3.5. For these reasons, I regarded the
revenue projections contained in our application as very
conservative.
2227
Now that we have reviewed the revenue projections from the incumbent
broadcasters' applications for second broadcast licences, we know that our
projects were very conservative. It
is documented that the current value of the market is in excess of $8
million.
2228
MR. GRAY: During our survey
of the Grande Prairie market beginning 18 months ago and, in particular, since
numerous visits beginning last fall, all four of the Sun Country directors have
played a hands‑on role in developing and seeking support and input for our
application, talking with community leaders and learning about the needs and
opportunities in the Grande Prairie region. The fact that there are 10 applicants
for radio licences demonstrates that growth in the region, the sustainable
economy and the geographic advantage this community has says
volumes.
2229
In the April issue of MoneySense Magazine Grande Prairie is ranked number
four in all of Canada in a survey of Canada's best places to live based on
measurable criteria. In the
specific category of population growth Alberta really cleaned up, Calgary is
number one for Canada, Red Deer is number two and Grande Prairie ranked number
four. Grande Prairie is ninth
highest in the nation for household income.
2230
As an independent applicant, an experienced communications company very
committed to service to the community, Sun Country will be a fresh new
competitive choice. We firmly that
this citizens and advertisers of Grande Prairie deserve and will support more
choice. Our research with community
leaders tells us that a new station needs to offer more local news coverage and
to work to connect the community and to offer a fresh new music format so that
there is more choice and diversity in the marketplace.
2231
Our anecdotal findings are that there is an important role for local
radio in the fight against crime and in education with regard to drug abuse,
particularly amongst youth and young adults. To that end we met a number of times
with the RCMP and with the City of Grande Prairie Crime Prevention
Coordinator. We have discussed
specific programs to deal with many of the social challenges of a growing
community.
2232
In speaking with Elder Angie Crerar, who is with us today, President of
the Métis Nation, we learned that radio is the most effective medium to inform
and connect the Aboriginal community.
Sun Country is committed to meet that challenge.
2233
We want to broadcast the Grande Prairie Storm Junior A hockey games. We have a letter on file with the
Commission from the business manager of the team following our meeting with the
manager/coach of the Storm expressing interest in our desire to do those
broadcasts, it is win‑win and it adds remarkably to community spirit. Frankly, we are surprised that the games
are not being broadcast.
2234
In a letter on file with the Commission from Persona, the Grande Prairie
cable company, let me quote Persona's President, Mr. Dean
MacDonald:
"The affinity between local cable
television and local radio is strong.
We currently work with another local licensee and would welcome the
opportunity to work with others."
2235
He goes on to state:
"The radio experience and community
track record of Sun Country principles is exemplary. They understand the opportunities that
exist in a fast‑growing market like Grande Prairie and have agreed to work
closely with Persona to ensure residents are well served with local information
and entertainment. We encourage
you, the CRTC, to award the licence to this applicant."
2236
And the Mayor of Grande Prairie stated in his
letter:
"The City of Grande Prairie supports
the efforts of Ted Pound in pursuing the opportunity of a new independent
locally‑operated FM radio station for Grande Prairie."
2237
Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, Grande Prairie Mayor, Wayne
Ayling, expresses exactly our intentions, to be a new independent,
locally‑operated radio station.
2238
Reference was made in Mr. Pound's opening comments that Sun Country has
established a community advisory board.
On numerous market visits in developing our community advisory board we
identified key community leaders who will assist our vision of bringing relevant
radio to Grande Prairie. The
community advisory board will have direct input to management, they will be our
additional eyes and ears of the community.
2239
The members of the community advisory board include Elder Angie Crerar,
President of the Métis Nation representing the Aboriginal community; Dr. Scott
McAlpine, PhD., Dean, Faculty of Arts, Science and Education at Grande Prairie
Regional College; City Alderman, Bill Given, owner of a media design company,
age 29, the youngest person ever elected to council; Neil MacGonigill, President
of Indelible Music, his principal focus and responsibility will be in the
development of local talent; Jackie Clayton, President of the Grande Prairie
Chamber of Commerce and local retailer businesswoman; Alderman Dwight Logan,
local businessman and highly involved in local service organizations, he is a
former two‑term mayor and is currently serving his third term as Alderman, his
principal interest is having more local news reporting on local media; Karen
Gariepy, the City Program Facilitator for the Community Action on Crime
Prevention; Constable Scott Haggerty, the Community Crime Prevention Officer for
the Grande Prairie RCMP.
2240
It is the intention of Sun Country to add three or four additional
members to the community advisory board.
We will seek a youth member, someone to represent the arts community and
other areas of importance that the committee may recommend itself. Sun Country is committed to connecting
with the Grande Prairie community.
2241
I would now like to introduce one of the members of our community
advisory board, Elder Angie Crerar.
2242
MS CRERAR: Thank you,
Walter.
2243
I am happy to be here today in support of the Sun Country FM radio
application for Grande Prairie. I
am impressed with Sun Country's interest and commitment to advance the interests
of the Aboriginal community of Grande Prairie and region. I am honoured to be a member of the Sun
Country Radio community advisory board.
I can assure the CRTC that I will advance the interests of the Aboriginal
community and I will also work to advance a positive relationship between the
Aboriginals and the non‑Aboriginals.
I look forward to my role on Sun Country's Community Advisory Board. Thank
you.
2244
MR. POUND: We at Sun Country
are a small group of experienced and passionate broadcasters who believe in
local community radio, the kind of radio that listeners and advertisers alike
trust. We want to bring diversity
and grassroots radio to Grande Prairie.
We are committed to using our knowledge, experience and passion for local
radio in creating a new corporate citizen that the community of Grande Prairie
can be proud of.
2245
Thank you for your attention.
We are available for questions.
2246
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Pound. Could I draw your
attention to your page 9 of your presentation this morning? You said that the blended music mix will
average a minimum of 35 per cent Canadian content and you added that it will be
40 per cent for new rock music. Am
I right?
2247
MR. POUND: Yes, that is
correct.
2248
THE CHAIRPERSON: Was it part
of the application or it is something that you just added on this
morning?
2249
MR. POUND:
Sorry?
2250
THE CHAIRPERSON: Was it part
of the application per se or is it something that you added this morning while
you were making ‑‑
2251
MR. POUND: We were
clarifying that segment. Part of
our application said 35 per cent and the segment of the ‑‑ said more than
35 per cent actually ‑‑ was clarifying that the new music portion of that
format would exceed 40 per cent.
2252
THE CHAIRPERSON: Because I
also noticed that throughout the presentation ‑‑ not throughout the
presentation, but in some instances you added some information that were not in
your written oral presentation ‑‑ to say written oral presentation,
but.. But the things that you have
added are also all part of the written submission?
2253
MR. POUND:
Yes ‑‑
2254
THE CHAIRPERSON: They were,
okay.
2255
MR. POUND: ‑‑ and support letters to support that
too.
2256
THE CHAIRPERSON: Fine. I am asking Commissioner Williams to ask
the questions.
2257
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good
morning, Mr. Pound and Sun Country panel.
2258
Would you like the questions addressed through yourself, Mr. Pound, or
through your General Manager?
2259
MR. POUND: Probably direct
them to me and I will redirect them through the
panel.
2260
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay,
thank you. Well, we will begin in
the area of gaining a better understanding of your proposed music format and how
it differs from the other competing classic rock, classic hits and soft AC
formats being offered and then specifically looking for why your proposed format
would best provide Grande Prairie adult males, 25 to 44, with a superior level
of programming diversity.
2261
Nine of the 10 competing Grande Prairie radio applications, including
yours, are proposing to serve the Grande Prairie market with mainstream
commercial FM music formats. These
formats are, in broad terms, classic rock, classic hits and soft AC adult
contemporary. As is the case with
your application, most have identified adult male listeners in the 25 to 54 age
group as being underserved by the two incumbent stations in the market. As an applicant in the competitive
process, we assume that you have reviewed the other
applications.
2262
You have identified the 25 to 44‑year old male listener as the core
audience group you would target with your proposed blended classic rock/new rock
format and contend that this is the principal audience group that is underserved
by the existing Grande Prairie radio stations.
2263
I am curious about Grande Prairie's adult female listeners in the general
25 to 54 age group, and I am curious in a professional not a personal way. Would you also characterize women in
either age group as being underserved in the current market or do you feel their
needs are being met by either the existing CHR station, the country station, or
perhaps even an out‑of‑market station?
2264
MR. POUND: I think our
response in that area is, a general response first of all, the market is
underserved with quality radio and the diversity of formats. Your specific
question is in regard to the female members of the marketplace. No, I don't think they are being
properly served entirely. There is
a real opportunity to bring quality radio.
In this case, when you look in our application, find the format finder,
you will see the various targets that they identified. And the format that we are proposing,
the classic rock format, although it does skew slightly to the male side, it
does offer full coverage to male and female and I think they will be properly
served.
2265
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Concerning your proposed format, could you explain to us why you feel
your format rather than say classic hits, soft AC or even a gospel music format
would be the better choice of format to serve the Grande Prairie
market?
2266
MR. POUND: Again, I will
refer back to the format finder. We
spent quite a bit of time researching the market to determine what was most
applicable and would be best received in the marketplace. And as you have heard from other
applicants already and you will hear from more applicants as we go forward,
generally everybody has targeted that format with skews to the left or skews to
the right. I think that supports
our view on it too. We will
probably get into this question, if there are more than two applicants we have
some views on that too.
2267
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I am
sure you appreciate that there are five other applicants proposing the same
format as we have just been discussing.
While you provided some additional format information in your
presentation, I wonder if you can expand that information. What, in your opinion, are the
compelling differences, if any, between your proposed format and the five other
classic rock type formats that would make your format the best choice to add
programming and musical diversity to the market? What sets your programming above and
beyond the others?
2268
MR. POUND: I think our
format goes beyond music. Our
format, as alluded to earlier yesterday, is a lifestyle. In our experience in the various
communities we have worked radio in British Columbia. Radio stations were much more than
music. Music became the cement or
the mortar of building the brick or the wall of the radio station. The strength of our format targets a
marketplace of a young vibrant community that is active and growing and are
looking for that niche, if you like, that music mix that they are currently not
receiving.
2269
We feel that the execution of the format that we will bring to the
community, supported with the commitment to quality talent, will set us apart
from any other broadcaster.
2270
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I
am interested, why a blended classic as opposed to a pure format? Why have you chosen a blended classic
rock/new rock format rather than either a pure classic rock format or pure
album‑oriented rock format?
2271
MR. POUND: Again, we think
it best serves the market. It is a
complementary format, the new music and the classic rock. It was touched on about the energy
involvement, that is it exactly.
Although it is a little out of the form, I will share the story. My youngest son, 17, just graduated and
the high school theme was The Carpenters We've Only Just Begun, which is quite a
stretch for a 17‑year old and their peer group. But that is the identity that this music
format stretches. It goes from
ourselves all the way down to the 17‑year old and those are the two extreme ends
of that format. But by mixing the
new music with the classic rock you get a perfect blend, in our view, that the
market wants to hear.
2272
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay,
thank you. We will now move into
the area of spoken word. In your
March 30, 2006 deficiency response you provided us with a well‑documented
breakdown outlining the level of scripted spoken word you proposed to offer on
your station. However, it would be
helpful to get some idea as to the level of non‑scripted spoken word that you
would offer. By non‑scripted I am
referring to things such as announcer talk and such. As an average estimate, how many hours
of non‑scripted spoken word do you anticipate on this
station?
2273
MR. POUND: Well, maybe I can
really cover all the spoken word. I
will start with the news‑related surveillance. We have 313 minutes committed, about
five hours, that is news and sports of about 206 minutes per week, those are 58
newscasts approximately three minutes in length. They will air between 6:00 a.m. and 6:00
p.m. Monday to Friday, and between 7:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m. Saturday and
Sunday.
2274
We have weather news, 29 minutes per week of weather. And then weather surveillance, 63
minutes per week of weather, that would be 126 forecasts. Road information is very critical in the
area. We have allocated 15 minutes
per week there. And this is
specifically answering your question now, general interest of spoken word is 316
minutes: 10 minutes would be our
First Nations update, it is a five‑minute program airing twice a week; 30
minutes would be the Local Heroes salute to local coaches and volunteers; 150
minutes would be our community service free air time that we talked about for
service groups and charities, 60 seconds, once per hour, seven days a week; 21
minutes a program called Black Gold, weekly feature on the oil patch, a
60‑second feature running 21 times per week; an agriculture program, 60‑second
feature 21 times per week, 21 minutes; we have 63 minutes in music‑related
features, this is the announcer prep regarding music particularly, this doesn't
cover music this covers the spoken word portion; and 21 minutes of additional
announcer, if you like, soapbox or local events
comments.
2275
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank
you. Your answers contain as much
information as the preamble to some of the CRTC's questions, so you may see a
bit of overlap in some of the questions that are following this and some of that
is because of the completeness of your answer to this first question. So if you can just bear with us as we
work our way through.
2276
In your March 30 deficiency response that your general interest scripted
word program would focus on such things as local events, oil, agriculture,
charity, non‑profit, something you call soapbox commentary, that the programming
would account for four hours of spoken word per week. Would you provide us with more details
on the type of content you would provide in these programs or duration and how
they would be scheduled? And I
think this is one of those questions that falls into that category, so if there
is anything more that you haven't covered that you wish to add you are certainly
free to do so now, okay.
2277
You have provided a programming grid on page 95 of your application that
detailed the level of live versus automated programming to be offered on the
proposed station. We have
recalculated your numbers to reflect live and automated programming levels over
the regulated 126‑hour broadcast.
We can see that you would offer 72 hours per week of what you term live
programming and 54 hours per week of what you term automated programming. What do you mean by the term automated
programming?
2278
MR. POUND: Those would be
the voice tracked pre‑recorded announcer inserts on the rotation of the
music.
2279
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And
would that music be fully automated music programming?
2280
MR. POUND: Yes, it would
be.
2281
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You
said your station would provide a local service that would cater to what you
described as the underserved 25 to 44 male listener of Grande Prairie. However, as a local service you have
decided to offer automated programming from 6:00 p.m. until midnight Monday to
Friday accounting for 30 hours of programming. As well, with the exception of eight
hours of live programming on Saturday between 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. and four
hours of live on Sunday between 10:00 and 2:00, you would also offer 24 hours of
automated programming over the weekend.
Would you elaborate on your ‑‑ what is your thinking behind this
programming decision?
2282
MR. POUND: I mean it is a
combination of economic and serving the community. As we indicated, we will expand that as
quickly as economically feasible, because our belief historically in any market
that we have operated radio stations before is it has been 24 hours live as
opposed to the automation. But I
think the automation in the radio industry has become a factor of economics and
we have taken a conservative approach to our application in that area to make
sure that we are effective when we start out or turn on the radio station, if
you like. As events happen, if
there was a Kelowna fire, as an example, our radio station would be live
immediately no matter what time that would be. But as laid out in our application, that
is our intent at this moment.
2283
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay
thank you, Mr. Pound. On page 98 of
your application you provide a news grid that outlines a scheduling duration and
number of newscasts you will offer on the proposed station. You indicate a total of 202 minutes of
news content which mirrors the figure you provided in your March 30
deficiency.
2284
I see that of this 202 minutes no newscasts are scheduled between 6:00
and midnight on any day of the week and only 36 minutes of news programming is
scheduled over the entire weekend.
Concerning the weekend newscasts, I see it is all scheduled in the
morning with nothing scheduled over the 12 hour period from noon until
midnight. Again, could you give us
a bit more information on how you reached this programming
decision?
2285
MR. POUND: That is correct
and, again, it is based on a conservative approach on available staff. We have targeted the key areas of
presenting news. We are committed,
as I touched on moments ago, should significant news happen we will be live at
any period during the day, I mean that becomes the mandate of our three members
of the news department who get the call and have to be active very quickly. We are committed to that as part of the
community involvement. But, as
outlined, we are live between 6:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. Monday to Friday and are
live 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Saturday and Sunday in our
newsroom.
2286
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And
these people are on standby or on call or..?
2287
MR. POUND: Absolutely,
Blackberries, cell phones, whatever ‑‑
2288
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay.
2289
MR. POUND: ‑‑ they will be available
immediately.
2290
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Back
to your news grid for a moment.
Where does the related surveillance material such as the 60 minutes of
weather and 15 minutes of road information per week fit into this grid? Is it scheduled to follow the newscasts
or will this information be scheduled at other times of the day and, if so, when
and would any of this be available on the weekends during the timeslots we have
been talking about?
2291
MR. POUND: Yes, it would
be. Part of that, as we touched on
before, part of that information presented is the announcer also. The 206 minutes per week run Monday to
Friday as the times outlined, 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.
Saturday and Sunday. Those are the
news, sports, weather. The weather
news itself runs 29 minutes per week.
The weather surveillance is part of the announcer's presentation and our
road reports are scheduled during the Monday to Saturday live period
also.
2292
COMMISSIONER: During your 54
hours of automated programming what provisions and mechanisms would you have in
place to go live to air with special news and information programming such as
weather warnings, emergency measures and that sort of
information?
2293
MR. POUND: Yes, that is very
very important for our radio station as, again, touching on our people are on
call immediately. Winter storms,
blizzards, if you spend anytime in Grande Prairie, can be
tremendous.
2294
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So
who contacts them, how are they contacted?
2295
MR. POUND: It becomes a
management decision. Just like you
have an emergency plan in a company, if something happens here are the steps
that you go through to make sure things are taken care of.
2296
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay,
so let us say it is January of any given year and you have a blizzard. I guess your General Manager has looked
out the window and he sees there is a blizzard and he will start phoning
people? I am just trying to figure
out how it would work.
2297
MR. POUND: Sure, I mean as
you know there is some anticipation of severe weather and that, just like you
have planned your programming day, you start to anticipate and then you have a
plan in place to deal with those emergency situations. In situations, of course Prairie folks
when we have been in the winter, we know that in some cases roads are cut off,
in some cases people need to communicate to other people and they can't. On the rare occasion there is no
communication and the radio station is the only communication available. That is the important role that our
community station will take.
2298
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay,
thank you. Are there any challenges
you face in creating relevant spoken word and news content to meet the needs of
your target audience and, if so, what might they be and what specific plans do
you have in place to serve them?
2299
MR. POUND: Well 63 minutes
of that 316 minutes of general interest spoken word are the responsibility of
the announcers preparing their programs and they are focused on the music format
relating to artists' events in that music genre. But there is also 21 minutes of that
spoken word content. Again, it is
the responsibility of the announcer, which may touch on the music but certainly
would touch on the lifestyle of our audience, whether it be local events going
on related to our audience or commentary on entertainment news environment, that
is how we would communicate to them.
2300
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We
will move into your contributions to talent. In your March 30, 2006 deficiency
response you indicated that in addition to the $20,000 annual direct expenditure
commitments Sun Country would contribute an additional $3,000 as required as a
participant in the CAB CTD plan.
For the public record, would you confirm that by condition of licence
your proposed annual CTD expenditures would total $23,000 and, by extension,
your CTD commitment over seven consecutive broadcast years would total
$161,000?
2301
MR. POUND: Our cash support,
as we outlined, will be $231,000.
The $3,000 that you are referring to we would direct to the ARIA, the
Alberta Recording Industries Association.
2302
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Right, as per your opening remarks.
2303
MR. POUND: That is
right. If you like, I can go
through the rest of it or we can wait for another
question.
2304
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure,
well maybe I will work through it and that way we will get all of the
information on the record that we might otherwise miss.
2305
What measures, if any, will Sun Country have in place to ensure that the
annual $5,000 grand prize will be used by the winning artist or band to
underwrite studio time as stipulated in your
application?
2306
MR. POUND: That is part of
the role of our community advisory board.
As we talked about, Mr. Neil MacGonigill will be our Canadian Talent
Coordinator. Neil and I go back a
long time, we started our broadcasts careers together. He moved towards the music industry and
I moved towards playing the music that he developed in the music industry. So the radio station itself will have an
arms‑length approach to something like that, we won't make the final judgement,
we will supply the funding.
2307
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What
type of recorded material do you expect as a result of this initiative? Are we talking about a master recording
or the winning song or something else?
2308
MR. POUND: It would be our
intent to have a CD or what I used to call an album out of that, but we
certainly would give exposure on our radio station and encourage other radio
stations to do the same.
2309
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will
it be in a current rotation category this new song?
2310
MR. POUND: That would be the
intent, but we wouldn't deny the opportunity of local talent in another ‑‑
in a folk area, in a soft rock area, in a country area. We will make time available within our
format to profile and highlight that local Canadian
talent.
2311
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How
long would it be in your rotation?
2312
MR. POUND: I am
sorry?
2313
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How
long do you anticipate Sun Country would keep the winning song in a current
rotation? Are we talking weeks or a
couple months or..?
2314
MR. POUND: It would always
be part of the format, it would not disappear. It would take a higher rotation,
obviously, closer to the event and it would be profiled with more than just a
rotation experience. As a
three‑month period perhaps it would fall back into a lesser rotation, but it
will always be part of our library.
2315
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay,
thank you. Based on the total hours
tuned estimates for your proposed service you expect to generate nearly 200,000
hours of audience tuning in year one, which represents approximately 13 per cent
of the total hours tuned in the Grande Prairie market. What factors lead you to believe that
this is a large enough audience to sustain your business
plan?
2316
MR. POUND: I will pass that
to Mr. East and then to Mr. Brundige.
2317
MR. EAST: Let us go straight
to Mr. Brundige.
2318
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr.
Brundige.
2319
MR. BRUNDIGE: I expect that
the station will have roughly a 28 share of the audience in the City of Grande
Prairie, in the County of Grande Prairie.
And that would indicate to me that somehow those numbers don't match
up.
2320
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay,
we can check that. Can you tell me
a bit about your economic analysis and research, Mr. Brundige? Some of the other applicants like
Hunsperger interviewed 300, Newcap 250, O.K. 403, Bear Creek 400. What was the sample size of your
research data?
2321
MR. BRUNDIGE: I did not do
the research that way. Mr. Foot did
the interviews. I did a study based
on the retail trade available in the County of Grande
Prairie.
2322
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That
is the 43 business owners and managers?
2323
MR. BRUNDIGE: No, no,
no. Mr. Foot dealt with those
people.
2324
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay.
2325
MR. BRUNDIGE: Do you want me
to continue on with what I did?
2326
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes
please.
2327
MR. BRUNDIGE: So I took the
retail sales from Canadian markets and then projected a percentage of that
number as the radio market for Grande Prairie. Then I got Stats Canada to give me a
special run on radio revenue in a defined area of northern Alberta and worked
out a per capita amount of spending on radio advertising and applied that to the
Grande Prairie market. The numbers
came in roughly $60,000 apart, one being slightly under $5 million and the other
one being slightly over $5 million.
Then I went and did a visit to the market, I talked to various
individuals in the market. I am
sorry I couldn't give you a list on it, because I was not doing what Mr.
Foot ‑‑
2328
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That
is fine.
2329
MR. BRUNDIGE: ‑‑ was doing.
However, I came away from that visit convinced that the $5 million for
2004 that I had arrived at was low and that it would be considerably higher,
probably in the $6 million for 2004.
As you have heard today and as I have heard today and as I have heard
today, the market since 2004 has grown explosively so we are left with a very
very conservative revenue projection.
2330
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay. Based on your
experience and the work that you have done, how many new radio stations do you
believe Grande Prairie could support at this time?
2331
MR. BRUNDIGE: I am sorry,
who did you direct that question to?
2332
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr.
Brundige, sorry, I was still ‑‑
2333
MR. BRUNDIGE: Well, I think
I will pass that question onto Mr. Pound.
2334
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay,
Mr. Pound.
2335
MR. POUND: Well, in light of
the news that came forward yesterday, I think the market can quite comfortably
support two new radio stations.
2336
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay,
so it could quite easily support two new radio stations. And if we were to licence one of the
incumbents and an independent or two incumbents or two independents, which would
be the preferred licensing scenario from your perspective for the Grande Prairie
market?
2337
MR. POUND: If we were able
to influence the decision we would encourage two independents. We think that brings more diversity to
the marketplace, it creates more competition, it gets everybody focused. In our history of broadcast radio
enterprises that we have done we thrive in competition. We look forward to a
challenge.
2338
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay,
thank you. In the event the
Commission decides not to licence you for the frequency for which you have
applied, have you considered the use of another frequency? If yes, which one and, if no, why
not?
2339
MR. POUND: Mr. Gray will
respond to that.
2340
MR. GRAY: It is of course
only in recent months it became quite evident to us that there was the very real
possibility there could be two licences granted, so obviously we had to look at
where we might go should our frequency be awarded as well as us. And we are convinced and we have
confirmed with our consultant from DEM Allen & Associates that in fact the
frequency allocation situation in Grande Prairie is really not an issue. I think we have already heard some of
the applicants suggest that there are three, four, possibly even more for
opportunity, so ‑‑
2341
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So
any one of these opportunities would be capable of meeting your
coverage ‑‑
2342
MR. GRAY: Yes,
yes.
2343
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: ‑‑ objectives and would have no negative
impact on your business plan?
2344
MR. GRAY:
No.
2345
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay,
I think that concludes my questioning, Mr. Chair. Thank you very
much.
2346
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Williams.
2347
This morning in your oral presentation and again in answering to a
question from Commissioner Williams you mentioned that your CTD cash commitments
were $231,000. The information that
we have recorded amounts to $161,000, as Mr. Williams mentioned to you. Could you, for our benefit, layout what
are those commitments?
2348
MR. POUND: Yes, thank
you. Five thousand dollar is the
annual music scholarship to attend the Grande Prairie College fine arts music
program. And again, our community
advisory board, in association with the college will adjudicate and determine
where that money goes, to what individual.
Five thousand dollars annual talent search program, $2,500 goes directly
to the first prize winner, $1,500 to the second prize winner and $1,000 to the
third prize winner.
2349
We have budgeted $10,000 in local grants to support new Canadian
songwriter, song singer performers to gain exposure in live performance and that
is where the assistance of Mr. MacGonigill and our community advisory board will
be, to adjudicate and evaluate those.
Ten thousand dollars in the annual business of music seminars. This is annual seminar, again under the
direction of MacGonigill will help new Canadian talent understand the business
side of music.
2350
We will put on a workshop and bring the industry professionals to the
community of Grande Prairie. So
that they have an opportunity to learn from people who have been in the
business. And really the key of
this is it is the business of music, how to sign a contract, what to anticipate
in a contract, what the experiences are on the road, how to budget accordingly,
areas that they can share of their past experience to these new budding
performers. I think that is an
overlooked area. And of course, the
$3,000 annual contribution to the Alberta Recording Industries
Association.
2351
We are very committed that the money for the Canadian talent support
comes out of the community as part of our broadcast facility and we are very
passionate about the fact that it should go back into the community and on a
secondary basis back into the region.
2352
THE CHAIRPERSON: Staff has
it recorded, your business, $10,000 that you are allocating to the business
seminar. Is it a new initiative
that you are introducing today or was it really part of your application? And if it was part of your application,
where ‑‑ on which pages of the application will I find the
information?
2353
MR. POUND: It came out of
the conversation in talking to Neil of making this commitment in our
application. This is new in our
Canadian talent. But you will see
it identified in our support areas.
2354
THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay, I
have Commissioner Cugini who wants to ask a few questions.
2355
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Good
morning. I just want to ask you a
couple of questions on your format, classic rock versus new rock. You mean new rock as opposed to
alternative rock music?
2356
MR. POUND: Yes, we
do.
2357
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And
will these be scheduled in day parts or will the new rock be scattered
throughout the day?
2358
MR. POUND: It is all part of
the mix.
2359
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And the
difference between the classic rock and the new rock, other than the era, is
there also a difference in the artists that you will play? In other words, will we hear a Rolling
Stones song in the classic rock and then their latest release and that will be
considered a new rock song, or will you be introducing new artists in the new
rock category?
2360
MR. POUND: It will be
principally new artists because of the growth in that area of the music
industry, but it will feature a Rolling Stones new song. It is new music, current music is
probably a more apt description as opposed to what you were calling it,
alternative rock, as a category description. It is new music.
2361
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And in
terms of your reflection of the Aboriginal community, will that include playing
Aboriginal rock music?
2362
MR. POUND: Absolutely. We would encourage that if it is
available. The support of Elder
Angie and her direction, so that we can connect to that Aboriginal
community. That was the reason that
we invited her to be part of our community advisory board so that we did have
that connect.
2363
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank
you. Thank you, Mr. Chair, those
are my questions.
2364
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mrs.
Cram.
2365
COMMISSIONER CRAM: I want to
go back to the CTD and I confess, I am confused and I think we all are. If I can take you to 5.5 of your
supplementary brief. By my
numbering it is 18‑Z‑4 and 5. Have
you found it? Supplementary brief
5.5.
2366
And I read that, and maybe it was amended, as saying you would be
providing $20,000 per year cash commitment.
2367
MR. POUND: Is there a page
number on the top right?
2368
COMMISSIONER CRAM: It says
18‑Z‑4.
2369
MR. POUND:
Yes.
2370
COMMISSIONER CRAM: You have
it? And 18‑Z‑5, both say your CTD
would consist of $20,000 per year cash.
2371
MR. POUND:
Yes.
2372
COMMISSIONER CRAM: There is
no reference whatsoever ‑‑ there is reference to the $5,000 scholarship,
the talent search $5,000, and $10,000 to local musicians, singers and
bands ‑‑ there is no reference to the $10,000 for the business side of
music seminars.
2373
MR. POUND: That is
correct.
2374
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And there
is no reference to the $3,000 a year for ARIA?
2375
MR. POUND: It is referenced
in the deficiency letter where we were asked is the $3,000 inclusive of the
$20,000 or external ‑‑ that may not be the right wording ‑‑ and we
responded it is external to it and we would ‑‑
2376
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Can you
tell me what page that is on your deficiency letter? Maybe I can direct you to paragraph 6 or
question 6, March 30 letter. You
have it?
2377
MR. HALL:
Yes.
2378
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay,
what that says is you will pay the $20,000 cash but it does not include the
small market contribution as a participant in the CAB CTD
plan.
2379
THE SECRETARY: Can you
please turn on your microphone when you are answering, you know, for us to have
the benefit of the ‑‑ for the transcript. If you could just have your microphone
turned on when you are answering the questions, so that we can have it for the
benefit of the transcript, thank you.
2380
MR. POUND:
Sorry.
2381
THE SECRETARY: That is
okay.
2382
MR. POUND: Yes, the CAB
Canadian talent plan and in that Canadian talent plan is a list of where the
authorized or accepted, I guess is a better word, participants in that Canadian
talent money and we allocate it to the Alberta Recording Industries
Association. We did not identify
the Alberta Recording Industries there.
2383
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes. You will agree with the that the public
record, which is what the competitors have to compete with, there is no mention
of ARIA?
2384
MR. POUND:
Correct.
2385
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And you
will agree with me that the competitors had no notice whatsoever that you were
going to give $10,000 to the those business seminars?
2386
MR. POUND:
Correct.
2387
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And you
agree with me that this is a competitive process?
2388
MR. POUND: Yes, I
do.
2389
COMMISSIONER CRAM: You
amended your application and in your amended application at 7.2, if you can find
that, in your March 30 letter, you amended your..
2390
MR. HALL:
Question ‑‑
2391
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Have you
got it?
2392
MR. HALL ‑‑ 7?
2393
COMMISSIONER CRAM: 7.2, it
is Canadian Talent Development.
2394
MR. HALL: And that is the
March 16 letter?
2395
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes. You have it, 7.2? It is the amended application that you
filed with your deficiency letter.
2396
MR. HALL: On the March 16
letter I have just seven under programming.
2397
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes, and
then keep going down the page.
Okay, by my numbering ‑‑ the numbering on the page it is 92, page
92. Does that help
you?
2398
MR. HALL: No, I don't know
what..
2399
COMMISSIONER CRAM: You can't
find it?
2400
MR. HALL: No, I
can't.
2401
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. I then wanted to talk
about your 313 minutes of news, sports and weather as you said in your talk
today at page 12. And I was looking
at the file on page 98 of the file, and I hope you can find that, it is the
grid, the news grid, and it says 206 minutes for 58 newscasts. Is the difference between the 206
minutes and the 313 minutes that you mentioned today those surveillance and road
reports that you were referring to with my colleague, Commissioner
Williams? I am sorry, have you not
found the news grid?
2402
MR. HALL: The news grid is
right there. Yes, 206
minutes.
2403
MR. POUND: The 206 minutes
is our 58 newscasts, approximately three minutes that are being aired between
6:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. Monday to Friday and between 7:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m.
Saturday and Sunday.
2404
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay,
that is the 206 minutes, right?
2405
MR. POUND:
Correct.
2406
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So what
is the difference between the 206 and the 313 of news, sports and weather that
you spoke of today?
2407
MR. POUND: Road reports 15
minutes per week, the weather surveillance 63 minutes per week, 126 forecasts,
the weather news, which is your extended forecast, 29 minutes per week of
weather news.
2408
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. So really ‑‑ and
this 206 minutes, when you say news on page 98, you mean news, weather,
sports?
2409
MR. POUND: Yes. Three minutes of news, approximately a
minute of sports and 30 seconds of weather.
2410
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. So if I were what I
would say comparing apples to apples, when the other applicants are referring to
their newscasts, I would be comparing 206 minutes versus what the other ones are
saying were their newscasts?
2411
MR. POUND: I would
agree.
2412
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay,
thank you very much. Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
2413
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr.
Langford.
2414
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you, Mr. Chairman.
2415
I too have a fairly simple question of clarification and it may just be
that I misheard you but it is better, rather than wait for the transcript, to
get it on the record. As I
understood your projected audience for your service, for your new service, on
page 29 of the Carat market study you projected an audience of 10.7 per cent for
year one rising to 15.1 per cent by year seven and that would be for all persons
12 plus. I thought, however, that
in response to Commission Williams' question you predicted a 28 per cent share
by year seven. Now, I may have
heard that wrong, but I think that is worth clarifying.
2416
MR. POUND: I will pass that
to Mr. Brundige.
2417
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you.
2418
MR. BRUNDIGE: Does the Kerat
study become part of the application?
2419
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Well
it is now, it is filed to support the application and, to be very clear, I have
year one at 10.7 per cent, year two at 12.3 per cent, year three at 13.9 per
cent, year four at 14.2, year five 14.5, year six 14.8, year seven 15.1. But the number I thought I heard this
morning was 28 per cent which would be, I think you would agree, a considerable
improvement on 15.1. So I just want
to make sure that we have a clear record on this.
2420
MR. BRUNDIGE: The 28 per
cent is what we believe the format will deliver.
2421
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Sorry, could you repeat that?
2422
MR. BRUNDIGE: The 28 share
is what we believe the format will deliver.
2423
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Okay,
so you have got to help me here.
You are basically saying the Kerat study was the Kerat study, but having
had time to reflect on the entire context of this application you would like to
state that you foresee a 28 per cent share?
2424
MR. BRUNDIGE: That is
correct.
2425
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And
can you give me any idea kind of what elements sort of ‑‑ I mean it is
just ‑‑
2426
MR. BRUNDIGE: How did I get
there?
2427
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ right up there with St. Paul on the road
to Damascus, you know. This is a
huge conversion, you have almost doubled your projections. Can you give us some help to understand
that?
2428
MR. BRUNDIGE: Yes, I
can. I came on board with Sun
Country after the Kerat study was done.
What I did in doing the audience projections was that I looked at
Brandon, Lethbridge and Prince George where you had small to medium sized
markets with rock stations in the marketplace. I looked at what share those stations
had. I then did some, which I must
admit is subjective, juggling and poking at it, and then applied the share
points to the population of Grande Prairie. And I arrived at a number ‑‑ of
course, when you are doing this kind of work you are really not going to wind up
with a number, you are going to wind up with a range ‑‑ and I wound up with
a range of between 25 and 30 as the share that could be expected for this
format.
2429
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Okay,
I wonder if I could pursue that with you for a moment, and you may want to get
back to me on these numbers and that is fair. Did you arrive at that 28 share based on
only one new service being licensed?
2430
MR. BRUNDIGE: Yes, I
did.
2431
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Now
here is a series of scenarios for you and, as I say, if you want to get back to
us in Phase 3 that is fine. I would
like to have your reaction to the notion of two commercial being licensed, your
reaction to two commercial plus the speciality gospel station being licensed and
your reaction to three commercial being licensed. And of course, the good news is you
would be one of anyone of those scenarios.
But I would think the 28 figure may change, but I leave with you if you
want to get back to us on that, that is perfectly all right and you can do that
in Phase 3.
2432
MR. POUND: Just for
clarification, you are looking in the context of share of
market?
2433
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Yes.
2434
MR. POUND:
Okay.
2435
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You
might also, if you want to, indicate whether you think that would have a major
impact on your business plan, you can throw that in too. I mean, because all the information is
relevant to us trying to decide first of all what is ‑‑ you know, we have
to figure out what is good for the market, what is good for you, we don't want
to put you in an.. It is no fun to
licence someone and watch them die, this is not where we get our pleasure. And we get no pleasure out of watching
incumbents go down the tubes either.
So if you have any views on that at the same time, if you want to share
those with us, that would be fine.
2436
MR. BRUNDIGE: Commissioner
Langford, I would like to ask you one question or make a comment about what you
have asked us to do.
2437
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Usually we ask the questions, but all right I will give you a
chance.
2438
MR. BRUNDIGE: I am well
aware of that, sir. In looking at
two commercial plus the gospel, two commercial and three commercial, the share
that can be projected out of that scenario is very very dependent on what the
incumbents do to shuffle their formats compared with what the new stations are
doing. And I would like to ask you
if you would accept an answer for each one of those scenarios that gave you a
range?
2439
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Absolutely. I understand
that, you know, we don't have any Harry Potters here, this isn't divination
class or something.
2440
MR. BRUNDIGE:
Yes.
2441
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
sure, as close as you can come to help us to understand what happens with us on
different scenarios. Because I am
interested to see here that coming on board late, sir, you have looked at 15 and
practically doubled it because you are saying no, no, no, you know, I understand
this market differently. So
obviously, it is very tempting to for us to want to pick your brain and your
experience and say well help us understand the sort of fallout that might come
from different scenarios. And if
you could share that with us in Phase 3 that would be very very
helpful.
2442
MR. BRUNDIGE: No
problem.
2443
MR POUND: If I could add a
comment to your overall question?
2444
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Absolutely.
2445
MR. POUND: We have operated
radio stations at times when interest rates were 20 per cent and employment or
unemployment, depending on what side of the fence you are on I guess, has been
as high as 17 per cent. We know how
to operate in a very tight economic environment without taking the salt off the
popcorn, if you like. And we are
prepared to operate in that environment, if need be, to bring good radio to
Grande Prairie.
2446
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Well,
I appreciate that and you will have two more phases in which to kind of make
that statement as you begin to, you know, understand more of what your
competitors are saying. And I think
by now people ‑‑ anybody who hasn't figured out the line of questioning
coming off this panel by now maybe should be starting with a paper route rather
than a radio station. But any
guidance you can give us would be gratefully received.
2447
MR. EAST: I wonder if
I ‑‑
2448
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Those
are my questions, Mr. Chair.
2449
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Langford. Do you want to add
something, Mr. East?
2450
MR. EAST: Yes, I do. I just wanted to clarify the differences
of the numbers that Mr. Langford has brought up. What we did in gathering our statistics
is we retained Mr. Brundige, we retained Mr. Foot, we retained the Kerat company
to do their work for us and whatever they came up with is what we have filed
with you. So that is the difference
and so it is in there to be noticed as a difference.
2451
Now, speaking specifically of the Ceret, we also had them do a financial
segment for us. And while there
were some of these differences that we had on the programming side, on the
revenue side they projected something like $700,000 in the first year and we
said no, no, we can't accept that, we don't want to put that in our brief at
all, so what have you done possibly wrong.
And they come back and said no, statistically was where they approached
their numbers from, statistically that is what the market should do. So their revenue numbers are not in
there, but their programming numbers are and they are somewhat different in
areas compared to what we finalized for ourselves.
2452
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Well
then it is my guess, that though we have given you a little homework, you should
welcome the opportunity to straighten this out.
2453
MR. EAST: Right, love
homework.
2454
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you.
2455
MR. GRAY: Mr. Langford, if I
can comment, we do appreciate that opportunity. What happened and that was the sequence
of events that Mr. East provided to you, we simply looked at the Kerat report to
do with the financial thing and chose not to include it, because clearly on that
basis why would we even apply. They
were clearly wrong, this was Grande Prairie, not somewhere
else.
2456
However, as far as the information you do have on file, it was filed
because clearly they nailed the format, they knew where the void was, we agreed
with that, we simply did not agree with the share and that is why you and Mr.
Brundige are having the exchange you are.
So the opportunity you have now given us is appreciated and we will get
that clarified. But it is rather
interesting because in this case Kerat, the consultant, we got their information
and usually you pay them for things you don't know, but the experienced
broadcasters at this table simply said the client knows more than the
consultant.
2457
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: That
is why we are licensing you folks maybe and not Kerat
ever.
2458
MR. GRAY: Thank you for the
licence.
2459
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Check
the word maybe.
2460
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Pound,
you are going to have a community advisory board and there were no discussions
whatsoever about your.. But could
you give, in a few strokes, give me its mandate and how often they will be
meeting and to whom they are going to be reporting and is it a consultative
board or is it a board that makes decisions or whatever?
2461
MR. POUND: Thank you. I will pass that answer to Mr.
Gray.
2462
MR GRAY: Thank you, Mr.
Arpin.
2463
First of all, I would like to mention that the notion of the community
advisory board is on the record and it will be found in at least one of the
letters of support and it would find its way onto the record that way, because
we obviously talked to community leaders and it was really in the community of
Grande Prairie itself that the idea came up.
2464
We as broadcasters were aware that they do exist. We are also aware that usually they wind
up being window dressing and don't work.
However, we saw a community here that really understood what it needed
and where the void was and where the services were required. So we do have a
draft copy here and I will read them for the record and I can get a cleaned‑up
copy and submit it to the Secretary so you have
it.
2465
So we have defined here, and we did read off earlier the people that
would be on the advisory board so I won't repeat that, the goals the guidelines
for the community advisory board and there are about eight points. But in answer to your question about is
it just an advisory board or are they a decision‑making board, there are a
couple of areas in here where they wind‑up being third party and do make the
decisions on behalf of the applicant and I will go through them and I will point
that one particular one out as we get to it.
"To recommend to management, from
time to time, opportunities to better serve the Grande Prairie community and the
target radio audience. To monitor
the news and spoken word programming by the station to make sure that 103.3 FM
that the station's commitment for fair and balanced news and information
coverage, with a focus on local coverage first, is maintained. To monitor and report to the management
team that in the opinion of the advisory board the overall performance of 103.3
FM fairly and honestly reflects the geographic, ethnic, cultural and
socioeconomic needs of the Grande Prairie and region citizens. To monitor and recommend fair and
sufficient promotion and radio coverage for local events, organizations and
causes."
2466
And this is the area where they wind‑up without the influence or
interference of management:
"To manage the distribution of
Canadian Talent Development funds where other third parties have not been
designated. To recommend
appropriate and effective programs and initiatives to 103.3 FM to help reduce
the problem of substance abuse in the community."
2467
And it was in that area that this idea was
spawned.
"To recommend to 103.3 FM a means by
which it can assist the RCMP and the City of Grande Prairie Crime Prevention
Coordinator with crime prevention initiatives."
2468
Such as Hot Cars program and some of those, but we won't go into those at
this moment.
"To monitor and advise 103.3 FM's
Children are Champions Charity, the advisory board will review and recommend
organization and individual needs project applications for fund assistance. To keep minutes and records of all
Grande Prairie community advisory board minutes and to advise and liaise with
the 103.3 FM on community issues and to provide the documents to the corporation
owners and management for consideration and community
action."
2469
So in other words, what they do will be on the record and even the
directors who aren't involved in hands‑on day to day operation will be aware of
what is happening between management of the station and the advisory board. And finally,
"To recommend annually community
members to be board members that best represent the values and goals of the
Grande Prairie community."
2470
So thank you for the opportunity for giving you more
details.
2471
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much, Mr. Gray. I think there
is no need to file, because the recorder took it and so we know where to get the
information.
2472
MR. GRAY: Thank
you.
2473
THE CHAIRPERSON: Before
moving, the legal counsel has a question for you, Mr. Pound. Where you heard me ask and all my
colleagues ask each of the applicants where will be the ‑‑ well, the
target, you identified your target being 35 to 54, but we have been looking for
the median age. So have you had a
chance to think about what will be the median age of your
listener?
2474
MR. POUND: It will be
39.
2475
THE CHAIRPERSON: It will be
39, and it will be skewed mostly ‑‑ more towards men than female,
but ‑‑
2476
MR. POUND: That is
correct.
2477
THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ do you have an idea of the ratio, 60/40 or
55/45?
2478
MR. POUND: Yes I do, I have
to just get my mind wrapped around it.
I should have written it down, it is 70/30.
2479
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Seventy/thirty male. And
having the legal counsel..
2480
MS FISHER: First of all, we
just wanted to thank you for submitting the documents updating the ownership
information concerning Sun Country Cablevision Ltd. And we note that you filed the
Certificate of Incorporation of 572843 Alberta Ltd., but that the Articles of
Incorporation for that company were not filed. And so we would like to request that you
could please file a copy of the Articles of Incorporation for that company,
excluding the certificate which you have already filed, no later than June
30?
2481
MR. POUND:
Yes.
2482
MS FISHER: Thank you. My second question is with respect to
the request from Commissioner Langford and we just wanted to confirm when you
could provide the information on the clarifications regarding the audience share
for us. He has indicated Phase 3
and we wondered if you could provide that by the end of day
today?
2483
MR. POUND: Yes, we
will.
2484
MS FISHER: Okay, those are
my questions. Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
2485
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you. Well, now it is your
two‑minute chance to tell us why you think the Commission should grant you a
licence to serve Grande Prairie.
2486
MR. POUND: Thank you. Sun Country's application to serve the
Grande Prairie and district community has the financial resources, the extensive
industry experience in community radio and a corporate board of directors with a
proven track record to provide the vision for success that cannot be matched by
any other applicant. We have
targeted the market with the optimum format, classic rock. We bring an independent newsroom to
reflect and report back to Grande Prairie, we bring a new ownership group to the
community. Sun Country brings
diversity and broadcast excellence to Grande
Prairie.
2487
Our new radio station will effectively and continuously connect to Grande
Prairie with the guidance of our community advisory board members. Citizens of Grande Prairie who believe
in our passion and focus to bring outstanding community service and quality
radio to the Peace Country. Sun
Country will be Northern Alberta's most committed advocate of our region's new
songwriters, song singers and performers.
Our local Canadian talent will enjoy the endless opportunities of
financial, promotional and educational support in their budding careers. We propose a realistic business plan
based on sound judgement and successful business
experience.
2488
Mr. Chairman, Commission members, Commission staff, we are proud and
passionate about our application before you today. We firmly believe our commitment to the
CRTC and the citizens of Grande Prairie are head and shoulders above the
rest. This is our only radio
application of available opportunities and it is for the community and radio
listeners of Grande Prairie. Thank
you.
2489
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much, Mr. Pound. Thank you to
your team. We will take a 10‑minute
break and we will get back to hear the Jim Pattison Group
application.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1115 /
Suspension à 1115
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1133 / Reprise
à 1133
2490
THE CHAIRPERSON: Ms
Secretary.
2491
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
2492
We will now proceed with Item 7 on the agenda, which is an application by
Jim Pattison Broadcast Group Ltd. (the general partner) and Jim Pattison
Industries Ltd. (the limited partner), carrying on business as Jim Pattison
Broadcast Group Limited Partnership for a licence to operate an English‑language
FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Grande
Prairie.
2493
The new station would operate on frequency 104.7 MHz (channel 284C1) with
an effective radiated power of 100,000 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna
height of 266.4 metres).
2494
Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Rick Arnish, who will introduce his
colleagues. You will then have 20
minutes for your presentation. Mr.
Arnish.
PRESENTATION /
PRÉSENTATION
2495
MR. ARNISH: Thank you very
much, Madam Secretary.
2496
Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission and Commission
staff. Before we begin our
presentation this morning I would like to introduce to you our
panel.
2497
My name is Rick Arnish, President of the Jim Pattison Broadcast Group
Limited Partnership, which is headquartered in Kamloops, B.C. We are very pleased to be here today to
present our application for a new classic rock FM radio station to serve the
City of Grande Prairie, Alberta.
2498
With me today is our Grande Prairie Alberta Management Team responsible
for the day to day local management of our existing Grande Prairie station, Big
Country 93.1 CJXX FM. To my
immediate left is our General Manager, Mr. Ken Norman, who has been working in
the Grande Prairie radio market for 17 years. To his left is our News Director, Mr.
Gord Sharp, who has worked in the Grande Prairie market for 25 years. To my immediate right is our Sales
Manager, Anne Graham, who has been working at the station for 17
years.
2499
To the right of Anne is Kim McKechnie, who is Sales Manager of the
Pattison Group radio stations in Kelowna, B.C. Immediately behind me is Chris Weafer,
our legal counsel from the law firm of Owen, Bird in Vancouver. To the left of Chris is Vice‑President,
Finance of the Pattison Broadcast Group, Mr. Bill Dinicol. And to the Chris's right is Mr. Gerry
Siemens, of our Vancouver operations who assisted with the preparation of our
application. We are now ready to
begin our presentation.
2500
The Jim Pattison Broadcast Group Limited Partnership is a regional player
in the two most western provinces of our country, Alberta and British
Columbia. Our group consists of 23
radio and television stations with all stations located in small markets, except
for our two Vancouver stations and our medium‑sized market station in Kelowna,
B.C. As a small‑market broadcaster
we have made significant commitment to provide top quality local programming,
outstanding local news and information services and a total dedication to be
intertwined in the cities and towns we serve. The 107 letters of support for our
application confirm we have met these commitments in Grande
Prairie.
2501
Our local stations and staff serve as the voice of their
communities. Our broadcast group's
public service record, I am proud to say, speaks for itself and has been
recognized by the Canadian Association of Broadcasters, regional broadcast
associations and the RTNDA on a number of occasions over the
years.
2502
The Jim Pattison Broadcast Group knows how important it is to provide
local and regional reflection. We
have local management in place at all of our stations who make local decisions
in the best interest of the station and the community. All of our stations' on‑air news and
information personnel have a major commitment to provide local live reflection
in these markets as opposed to networking from a larger centre. Our mandate is to ensure that our best
practices for the marketplace is that of local programming staffed by live
personnel.
2503
In Grande Prairie we are a standalone FM station in a marketplace
competing against one other standalone FM station. Our existing station, Big Country CJXX
FM is a country music format designed to serve a broad spectrum of country music
listeners, including teenagers, young adults and a more mature audience. Our competitor station is CFGP FM, a Hot
AC radio station geared to 18 to 49‑year olds.
2504
We believe, consistent with the Commission's criteria, that a new station
for Grande Prairie must: one,
provide a new music format choice to the market; two, have strong Canadian
Talent Development initiatives and other tangible benefits that contribute in a
material way to the Canadian broadcast system; three, be based on a solid
realistic business plan and have the financial resources of a strong owner to
ensure commitments are met over a seven‑year licence term and beyond; four, have
minimal impact on existing players; and five, be of benefit to the local
community.
2505
I will now turn our presentation over to our Grande Prairie team lead by
Ken Norman.
2506
MR. NORMAN: Our research
clearly indicates that a major portion of the Grande Prairie radio audience is
not being served by a local FM station playing a unique and distinct format,
which is classic rock. Classic rock
has been described as the Energizer Bunny of radio music. In market after market research shows
classic rock subgenres like older classic rock Led Zeplin, Jimmy Hendrix, Neil
Young, Rush, Chilliwack, Pink Floyd along with younger classic rock like Van
Halen, ZZ Top, BTO, Brian Adams, The Eagles and the Dooby Brothers consistently
rank at or near the top of listeners' preferences.
2507
While classic rock has broad‑based appeal, the format has been tested and
been proven to be particularly popular with males 35 years of age and
older. The distinct and unique
classic rock format continues to grow across Canada and the United States as our
population ages.
2508
In the last several years classic rock has been one of the top music
cluster choices of 35 to 54 adult males in the radio marketplace. There are a number of contributing
factors to the format's performance, among them is a target demo focus, classic
rock stations have a core audience of men 35 to 54. It was just over seven years ago that
classic rock surpassed oldies in 35 to 44‑year old men's listening choices and
the format hasn't looked back.
2509
Our classic rock station will be distinct from what is already available
in the Grande Prairie market. Our
new station will reintroduce many songs that will appeal to 35 plus males that
have not been aired on any local stations in significant numbers. By carefully balancing pure classic rock
artists such as the Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, The Guess Who along with
AC/DC, Prism, Aerosmith and Trooper, the classic rock format has become as
comfortable for the 35 plus male as a pair of Levis or a mustang
convertible.
2510
Here is a sample of what their new radio station will sound
like.
‑‑‑ Audio presentation /
Présentation audio
2511
MS GRAHAM: In building our
application we realize that image in the format is very important. If approved, our goal will be to create
a bond with our listeners stronger than most stations can, simply because the
target audience will associate the music and surrounding pop culture of the
station with the best times of life.
They are not feeling old, but forever youthful because of that
relationship and the classic rock format defines that moment in their
lives.
2512
Our search for a desirable format was for one that would have minimal
impact on the stations already established in Grande Prairie. Our classic rock format will appeal to
males 35 to 54 years of age, but also to include male listeners five years
younger or older than this demographic.
We will focus on Canadian and international artists of the classic rock
genre, we would also spotlight new and emerging Canadian artists and give them
the opportunity to expose their music to a new
audience.
2513
Our station named The Drive will air a number of special programs that
will provide our listeners with a full range of classic rock. They include, as described in our
supplementary brief: Ear to the
Tracks, this will highlight a Canadian album in its entirety; Border Crossing,
this will feature culturally diverse rock music from around the world; Electric
Lunch, every weekday from noon to 1:00 p.m. we will ask listeners to fax, email
or telephone in their suggested music sets; Live Wire, an extension of the
classic rock format as we profile the heavy music that typified the rock of the
1980s; Off the Record, an in‑depth look at rock `n' roll's classic artists with
host Joe Benson; The Canadian Rock Review, a short‑form feature which will air
twice a day providing background on the people that made the
music.
2514
And now to our commitment on local reflection in Grande Prairie here is
Mr. Gord Sharp.
2515
MR. SHARP: Our new station,
The Drive, will be a classic rock format with a heavy emphasis on news and
information programming. Nine hours
and 15 minutes each week will be devoted to providing information to our
audience, 35 to 54‑year old males, which are significant consumers of news and
information. Our news and
sportscasts will be well researched, written and broadcast with a focus on the
local community and region covering the meetings, press conferences and
emergency happenings that our audience needs to know
about.
2516
Focus groups have told us what the area wants from an information
department, strong local coverage and strong on‑air news and sports personnel.
The Drive's news department will build on our existing contacts in the
region. Currently on CJXX FM we
average more than 25,000 stories annually from across the region aired on our
newscasts. We strive for 80 per
cent local content on each cast, but often it is 100 per cent. The new station will also have local and
regional coverage as its top priority.
We also pride ourselves on localizing provincial, national and
international stories, federal and provincial budgets, terrorist attacks, crime,
agriculture and other stories from outside the Peace Region will be broken down
and local comment will be sought.
2517
We will continue our practice of the current newsroom in developing
strong relationships with city, county and other politicians from across the
area. We regularly interview our
member of Parliament and MLAs representing the region and have them explain
political issues to our listeners.
The Regional College in Grande Prairie is a great resource to our
newsroom, we will continue to interview the political scientists, historians,
economists and other experts when the expertise is needed.
2518
Grande Prairie is an active sporting life with winter and summer sports
drawing thousands of fans and competitors each season. Local coverage on The Drive will be our
priority in sports coverage.
2519
Members of the Commission, there is no morning newspaper or local
television in Grande Prairie. While
we will broadcast news throughout the day, morning information on radio is
vitally important to the people of the region. This will continue to be important. Samuel Johnson wrote, "Journalism is a
flaming sword, hold it high, guard it well." We will.
2520
I have always felt it an honour and a privilege to be in the news
profession. Our new station will
work very hard to uphold the news and sports standards that CJXX FM currently
provides to the people of Grande Prairie and, in particular, The Drive's 35 to
54‑year old male demographic. We
are particularly pleased to receive a letter of support from Dr. Duff Crerar of
Grande Prairie Regional College, the letter
stated:
"To coin a term, CJXX has been able
to localize national and international news coverage by its close interaction
with professional scholars at Grande Prairie Regional College. In this way, the station has provided a
valuable forum for informed discourse across the region. I hope that this application will be
successful, as both their trajectory and intentions are to maintain and improve
this service."
2521
In Grande Prairie the ability to develop synergies with our existing
newsroom at CJXX FM and other Pattison Broadcast Group stations in Western
Canada will enable us to make a commitment to news and information programming
that a standalone station would find difficult to match. Our commitment includes hourly
five‑minute newscasts from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Monday to Friday with
additional updates on the half hour during breakfast and late afternoons. The Drive's news coverage will continue
on the weekend as well. Our
newsroom will remain staffed Saturdays and Sundays with five‑minute reports
every hour from 6:00 a.m. through 6:00 p.m.
2522
The Drive will provide a minimum of nine hours and 15 minutes of news and
sports reflection each week. In
addition to that commitment, we will provide local and surveillance material of
three hours, 30 minutes per week covering issues such as weather, traffic and
other current and relevant events.
2523
It cannot be stressed enough that being live and current is critical to
those who live in the north, that is why we commit 30 minutes a day, seven days
a week to environmental and surveillance material.
2524
Our weekly commitment for local reflection of news, weather, sports,
environmental and surveillance coverage will be 12 hours, 45 minutes. When we include interstitial spoken word
and our special music program spoken word we will have 23 hours and 51 minutes
of spoken word per week.
2525
MR. ARNISH: I would like to
highlight the significant tangible benefits that will come from approval of our
application. Our application
contains commitments in an amount of over $2 million in direct expense Canadian
talent and employment equity initiatives.
This is almost three times the next highest commitment of any other
applicant in these proceedings. We
will spend $700,000 over the course of our licence in support of the Save the
Music Foundation initiative. We
believe that in the Save the Music Foundation we have identified the most
significant new initiative for the development of emerging talent in
Canada. This addresses Canadian
talent at its most crucial point, the education of our youth in
music.
2526
We have established a unique partnership with the Canadian Rocky Mountain
Music Festival which has earned an international reputation as one of the
leading festivals of its kind. Our
partner will be responsible for ensuring that our annual $100,000 commitment per
year is distributed in accordance with the Commission's guidelines for Canadian
Talent Development.
2527
Contributions will ensure instruments are in schools, mentoring occurs
for music educators, opportunities are created for students to travel to music
events and competitions away from home and bursaries and scholarships are
available to students in Alberta.
2528
Our Save the Music Foundation has struck a cord in the community of
Grande Prairie. As Ms Arlene Miller
stated in her letter of May 18, 2006 to the
Commission:
"The CRTC has worked within the
radio industry to sustain, develop and ensure that the Canadian music industry
reflects our unique Canadian culture and heritage. Without children and music programs in
Alberta how can we build a foundation to achieve those
goals?"
2529
We also greatly appreciate the support letter we received from talent
representative agency IMAC Management which stated:
"Save the Music Foundation is a
vital tool that addresses Canadian Talent Development at its most infinite
grassroots stage and it will raise the quality of music education in Western
Canada."
2530
We further commit an additional $500,000 over the course of seven years
to other CTD initiatives, those are outlined in our supplementary brief and we
are very proud of the contribution we will make to the Grande Prairie community
in Canadian Talent Development in the region.
2531
We have also made a significant financial commitment of $350,000 over the
licence term for the Canadian women in radio Career Accelerator Program. This is a program which is on the verge
of running out of funding absent our commitment. We are aware that women across the
country have benefited from this significant initiative, we hope to keep it
alive.
2532
We have also committed $350,000 for a new career accelerator program
designed for broadcasters that are Aboriginal persons, visible minorities and
persons with disabilities. We have
also committed $175,000 for an employment equity initiative in alliance with the
Métis Nation of Alberta and the Grande Prairie Regional
College.
2533
We are pleased to have the support of the Métis Nation of Alberta, as
stated in their letter of May 15, 2006.
The Métis Nation of Alberta has worked with the Pattison Group in other
areas of the province successfully.
We hope that this application presents another such opportunity to expand
a relationship with them. The
Pattison Group should be commended for their continuing efforts to reach and
support the Métis community within Alberta.
2534
Why the Pattison Group?? Mr.
Chairman, you have a large number of applicants before you, we are all making
promises about contributions to the community, to Canadian talent and the to the
broadcast system. But to deliver on
these contributions there must be a business case. The Pattison Broadcast Group has a long
history of running successful small‑market stations. We are confident in our ability to meet
the ambitious commitments that we have made. We have a solid and attainable business
plan and we have the resources of the Pattison Group of companies behind
us. The Broadcast Group is at the
very cornerstone of that group of companies and we are in the broadcast industry
for the long haul.
2535
In every business that the Pattison Broadcast Group goes into it does so
on the premise that the business is multi‑generational and our commitments in
this Grande Prairie application, if approved, go beyond any given licence
terms. As the Commission is aware,
it is generally the case that smaller markets have different challenges than
larger markets. In smaller markets
where the Commission licences additional owners a common result has been a net
reduction in spoken word programming in the market as licensees seek
efficiencies to respond to the competition.
2536
Given the critical importance of spoken word programming in smaller
markets, it is important to note that granting our application will result in
the most significant increase in the availability of spoken word programming in
Grande Prairie. Our commitment to
news and information in the market is already established and granting of this
new licence will enable us to increase this level of service. Licensing an additional owner to the
market will inevitably result in pressure in all players to find the most
efficient way to service the market, often resulting in a decrease in local
originated spoken word programming.
2537
In smaller markets where an additional owner has been licensed it has
often been the case that there is a rush to the middle in terms of programming
format as the multiple owners compete to attract the largest audience. This rarely results in an increase in
sustainable diversity of format in the smaller market. Licensing and incumbent in a secondary
market ensures that the competitors will attempt to diversify their formats as
there is no incentive to compete against your own format. In Grande Prairie we submit that the
issuance of a licence to an incumbent player will have the most positive
benefits to the Grande Prairie radio market.
2538
Mr. Chairman, the Pattison Broadcast Group keeps its promises and serves
its communities. We have a core
belief that the more we serve our community the more successful we will be. In the acquisition of Monarch
Broadcasting in 2001 we committed over $1 million to build a state of the art
media arts centre for young students at Pacific Academy in Surrey, British
Columbia. That outstanding facility
was opened to students in September of 2005.
2539
Also in 2005 our radio and TV stations gave back $10.3 million in public
service and community service time to the towns and cities we work in. We operate excellent radio
stations. New Country 93.7 JRFM has
been named Canada's country music station of the year by Canada Music Week three
years in a row. Our group has
received a number of CAB gold ribbon awards, RTNDA awards, along with many
others in recent years. Recognition
for this commitment was accorded to Mr. Pattison when he was awarded the
Canadian Association of Broadcasters most prestigious award, the gold ribbon for
broadcast excellence.
2540
In conclusion, members of the Commission, we have a unique format
designed for an audience that is being underserved in Grande Prairie. We have committed $2.1 million in
tangible benefits. They include
$1.2 million to our unique Canadian talent initiatives highlighted by the very
original brand new Save the Music Foundation which will impact Canadian talent
where it really matters, our youth.
We have also committed to the highest level of spoken word programming of
all applicants at this proceeding, all of which we submit will provide
significant benefits to the community of Grande Prairie and serve the objectives
of the Broadcasting Act.
2541
Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, we appreciate the opportunity to
appear before you today and we look forward to responding to your
questions.
2542
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Arnish. I am asking Mrs. Cram
to ask the questions.
2543
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you, Mr. Arnish and panel.
2544
I was struck by your comments, Mr. Arnish, at page 9 when you were
talking about the issue of the rush to the middle. And the last sentence of that paragraph
says:
"Licensing an incumbent in a
secondary market ensures that the competitors will attempt to diversify their
formats, as there is no incentive to compete against your own
format."
2545
Is that what we should be looking for, diversity of formats, or should we
be looking for diversity of news, diversity of different voices in the
community? What should be more
important?
2546
MR. ARNISH: In our opinion,
Commissioner Cram, I think the diversity of formats in smaller markets is
becoming an increasingly bigger issue for the whole industry right across
Canada. As the Commission heard at
the recent radio review in Ottawa, that whole topic about over‑licensing in
smaller markets was a very big issue of broadcast companies, small independents
and companies of our size right across the country. And we strongly believe in markets like
Grande Prairie, if the Commission was predisposed to licence the two incumbents
with two new licences for that marketplace, that is really in the best interest
of the marketplace. Because there
is no doubt in the history that we worked in markets where there has been two
ownership groups with four licences, there definitely is a diversity of
formats.
2547
In markets where we have more than two ownership groups and perhaps there
is four stations in the market owned by three ownership groups or there's five
stations in the market owned by three ownership groups there always is a rush,
for the most part, to the middle to gain the biggest audience share which
obviously transposes into sales of advertising in the marketplace. And that, to us, is not good for the
broadcasting system, it is not good for the community as
well.
2548
So we strongly believe that diversity of format rather than ‑‑ not
necessarily diversity of spoken word information ‑‑ is extremely important
in markets like Grande Prairie. Our
competitors and ourselves have worked extremely hard in that market to build the
market over the last 10 to 15 years.
The O.K. Radio Group has done an outstanding job with their Hot AC
format. Our team in front of you
this morning has done a wonderful job with the country format. If we are privileged to receive a
classic rock station licence for Grande Prairie and the incumbent is also
privileged to receive a station licence I really do feel at the end of the day
they are going to have a Hot AC station, they will move more to a modern rock
format. We will have our country
station and we will definitely be the classic rock station in the
marketplace.
2549
So diversity of format really does work and it is not dissimilar to
markets similar to the size of Prince George where there is two ownership
groups, four stations, four diverse formats. In Kamloops there is two ownership
groups, there is a new station going to be coming on the air here shortly, so we
will have five stations there, but at the end of the day we are going to have
five distinct formats.
2550
The same thing could be said in Red Deer where we have two ownership
groups, four distinct formats in the marketplace as well just to give you some
examples.
2551
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Now, I
think you heard Mr. Truhn, your country station presently are there news reports
on it up `til 11:00 in the evening?
2552
MR. ARNISH: I will ask Mr.
Sharp to talk to that.
2553
MR. SHARP: Yes, they
are. From Monday to Sunday we have
news from 5:30 in the morning until 11:00 p.m.
2554
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Nothing
on Sunday?
2555
MR. SHARP: Didn't I say
Sunday? Sorry, until Sunday,
yes.
2556
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Oh, I
thought you said Monday to Saturday.
2557
MR. SHARP: No, until
Sunday.
2558
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Oh okay,
sorry. And so if you are providing
news at night, it would appear there is a demand for it?
2559
MR. SHARP: There is,
yes.
2560
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Why
wouldn't you be doing the same with this
station?
2561
MR. ARNISH: Well, we can
talk about that and Mr. Sharp has some views on that as well. But we looked at this format as and we
talked about it in our opening presentation that the male genre, 35 to 54 with
the median average age of 44, in our opinion that is the target market we are
going after, wants to certainly know about news and information spoken word
throughout the day. But in the
Pattison Group we basically have five radio stations that run a very similar
format as we are proposing here in Grande Prairie.
2562
In everyone of those cases evening news, because of the fact that we are
playing just about all music, doesn't factor into the equation. We have live announcers as we proposed
there in Grande Prairie, so if something major was to take place our newsroom is
on call 24 hours a day, we will be live in the evening right through until
midnight. We are able to call on
the newsroom staff to be able to cover any stories that may come up. But as far as surveillance material,
weather, road information in the wintertime in the evening, because of the live
staff that we will have there, they will be able to provide that
coverage.
2563
Mr. Sharp or Mr. Norman, do you want to add
anything?
2564
MR. SHARP: That is right, we
are also on a 24 hour notice, all five people in the newsroom, as will be the
four in The Drive newsroom. So we
will be available to cover emergency events and our jocks, as well, will be well
versed in getting information out to the people.
2565
COMMISSIONER CRAM: You talk
about the 35 to 54 male being underserved and I guess I was surprised by that,
but the market currently skews female I gather in Grande Prairie, Alberta. I mean, it is almost a ‑‑ I don't
understand why that exists right now.
2566
MR. NORMAN: Commissioner
Cram, I can shed some light on that a little bit. With the current formats that we have,
ours being a country radio station serving an audience ‑‑ really, we have
teenagers calling in our request lines right up to grandmas and grandpas. So country music covers a wide
demographic and does cater a little more to a female audience. SUN FM also, a little softer rock
station, pop, AC, whatever you would like to call it, also caters to an audience
of ‑‑ that is a little higher in female listeners. What is missing and what we have not
only seen in the research, as you may have heard Mr. Truhn's case as well, what
is missing is a harder edge radio station for the male demographic of 35 to
54.
2567
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And so
your core demo would then be what?
I mean, you have the range there, is there a core within
it?
2568
MR. NORMAN: Our median age
would be 44 ‑‑
2569
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
2570
MR. NORMAN: ‑‑ and we would shoot for an audience separation of
male 70 per cent listeners, female 30.
2571
MR. ARNISH: You know, the
Grande Prairie market, as you have heard and I won't be too repetitive here
because you have heard it already yesterday and today, but it is in the oil
patch, there is also a huge agricultural component to it and there is a major
forest component to it as well. But
obviously the oil patch and the lumber industry and the pulp and paper industry
in Grande Prairie, there is lots of males there and really the market up until
this point in time, we believe, has not been servicing that male demo and the
demo that we are projecting. And we
don't want to lose them to iPods, we don't want to lose them to satellite
radio. Perhaps when they are at
home off the oil field or off not doing their work in the lumber industry they
are listening to radio on the internet, but we want to repatriate some of those
listeners to the Grande Prairie market.
2572
Unfortunately, we don't have any statistics through BBM that says how
much out‑of‑market tuning is in Grande Prairie because the market isn't rated at
this point in time. But we feel
there is a major component of a male audience there that would, as our research
says, would clearly love to have a pure classic rock station. And I would like to build on the word
pure. We are talking about a pure
classic rock station. We are not
talking about a classic rock/classic hits hybrid, we are not talking about a
classic rock/modern rock hybrid, we are talking about a pure classic rock radio
station geared strictly toward males.
It will garner some females, but we are definitely geared toward the male
demographic.
2573
COMMISSIONER CRAM: I guess I
am interested in your median age being you said 41, didn't
you?
2574
MR. NORMAN: Commissioner
Cram, 44.
2575
COMMISSIONER CRAM: I am
sorry.
2576
MR. NORMAN:
Yes.
2577
COMMISSIONER CRAM: When the
median age of Grande Prairie, at least another applicant showed, your fellow
incumbent, that the median age in Grande Prairie was 29.7. Why would you ‑‑ I suppose because
they have more income I guess at age 44 or..?
2578
MR. ARNISH: Well the ‑‑
the median age for Grande Prairie ‑‑ and I will get Ken or Anne to respond
to this if they wish as well, they live in the marketplace ‑‑ but as we all
know, I mean, it is common sense with what is going on with the economy in
Alberta, particularly in the north that it is attracting a lot of young people,
there is no doubt about it, and it has driven the age of ‑‑ the average
median age in Grande Prairie down to that demographic. But the marketplace has told us that
there is a big void out there for that 35 to 50 or maybe 40 to 50‑year old male
that is mature, working in the oil patch, working in the lumber and forest
industry and the trucking industry in Northern Alberta and we just feel that we
can repatriate those listeners to this format.
2579
MR. SIEMENS: Commissioner
Cram, if I might, it really is a function of the format as to why the median
listener would be 44 years of age.
We determined through our research that classic rock was the format to be
and so then if you look at the classic rock genre and what it is performing at
right now it is definitely targeted 35 to 54 with the 44‑year old listener begin
right in the sweet spot.
2580
COMMISSIONER CRAM: But you
could make it younger, couldn't you, by adding the newer hits and that sort of
thing?
2581
MR. ARNISH: Well, we could
and Gerry and Ken might want to add to this, but that is not our intent. Our intent is to ‑‑ again, and I
don't want to be repetitive here ‑‑ but this is a pure classic rock format
and we are good at it. We have five
stations that are in this format now, we do very well with them. Yes, we could go younger if we decided
we wanted to play more modern rock, but that is not our intent here. Our intent is to be a pure classic rock
radio station.
Gerry.
2582
MR. SIEMENS: I haven't
anything to add to that.
2583
COMMISSION CRAM: And in
terms of the other five applicants in this market that are saying they are going
for classic rock, can you distinguish your proposal from theirs? I know some of them are hybrids and I
recognize that.
2584
MR. ARNISH: I guess it does
concern me that it has come up even today that some applicants, and they have to
look at their business plan and what they propose to the Commission for this
market place, have said well maybe it is a classic rock/classic hits
hybrid. You know, we applied for a
classic rock format and now we are talking about classic hits. There is a huge difference in our
opinion, for the most part, between a pure classic rock radio station and a
classic hits radio station. There
would be some overlap in classic hits music played on a classic rock station,
but you heard our demo and I think the demo really clearly defines the station
that we are planning to take to air if we are privileged with a licence for
Grande Prairie.
2585
If you are true to the format you are true to the pure classic rock
format that we have described here today, as we have put in our application as
well.
2586
MR. SIEMENS: And I think, if
I might, another defining character of our radio station would be ‑‑ we
have outlined in the supplementary brief and cross‑referenced today ‑‑ a
number of full‑length music‑based programs that will be unique to our station,
Ear to the Tracks; Border Crossings; Electric Lunch; Live Wire; Off the Record
and so on, so those are definitely characteristics that set us apart from our
competitors. And then that doesn't
even begin to address our huge commitment to news and spoken word, which is
certainly a defining character.
2587
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Those
programs that you were talking about, the ‑‑ I will call them accompanying
music‑based programming ‑‑ all locally produced?
2588
MR. NORMAN: I can answer
that, Commissioner Cram. They will
be produced by our new Grande Prairie Drive staff and we have one syndicated
show and that is the show called Off the Record with Joe Benson that will air
for an hour on Sunday nights.
2589
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank you
very much for this. My notes say,
yes, it is 12 hours, 45 minutes of the news, sports, surveillance which includes
road and weather. Now, for some
reason I thought there was going to be 12 hours of scripted news, sports. But there isn't there is only nine
hours, 15 minutes of the scripted news, sports, is that
correct?
2590
MR. NORMAN: That is correct,
yes.
2591
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Yes.
2592
MR. NORMAN: And I will let
Mr. Sharp talk a little bit more about this. The surveillance material would take
in ‑‑ because we will be on the air live from 6:00 a.m. until
midnight ‑‑ announcer talk during the evenings. As you heard in our presentation, life
in the north is very unpredictable, so we need to be able to tell people when
the highways are impassable, the RCMP need to be able to get a hold of us
locally and then our announcer who is on the air, if it is deemed necessary, can
contact our news director or news staff to follow‑up on that. But I will let Gord Sharp tell you a
little more.
2593
MR. SHARP: Thanks very
much. That nine hours and 15
minutes on The Drive news department ‑‑ I came into this business in the
halcyon days of radio news, the mid‑1970s, and quite frankly the last 10, 15, 20
years have been tough for news people across this country, but I am proud to say
Grande Prairie news and sports is very important to both our radio station and
the people of the Peace River Country.
As I mentioned in my opening remarks, there is no morning TV or morning
newspaper in Grande Prairie, it is extremely important. And time and time again we hear from our
audience just how important it actually is.
2594
One thing that strikes us all who work in Grande Prairie is yes, the
economy is going very well there, but that is not just by accident. The people of the Peace Country work
very hard in all sectors, whether you work in the oil patch, forestry, whether
you teach, you are a nurse or a doctor, whether you are in business, the folks
up there work very hard. And I have
always felt it is incumbent on a news department to roll‑up our sleeves and
duplicate what the folks up there are doing and that is why our focus always has
been local coverage. In the last
few days alone, some of the stories coming out of Grande Prairie, a proposed
$265 million hospital, a local doctor from the Grimshaw area climbs Mount
Everest, the oldest man in Canada to ever do that. We talked to him by satellite phone just
hours after he came back, that is great local radio, I guess great radio
anywhere.
2595
The schools up there are simply busting at the seams and parents are
concerned that they need more money from the province and we need to get our
microphones out there and talk to them and that is what we do. Another 66‑year old man sold his ranch
and he bought a great big boat and he is now three‑quarters the way around the
world. By satellite phone he has
been a major part of our newscasts for the last seven months. I don't know if you recall the name
Grant Notley, he was the NDP leader of Alberta in the 1980s who died in a plane
crash. His daughter announced last
week that she is running for a seat in Edmonton. She is a resident of our area, just a
brilliant lawyer in Edmonton and I think it is just great she is following
in.
2596
Roberta Bondar, the great Canadian astronaut, who has got a résumé longer
than this room I think, was a part of our morning show when we had this wildly
successful science fair last fall, Roberta Bondar came in and the response was
just incredible. As you have heard
in some of the other applications, Ford World Women's Curling, greatest event
ever as far as a crowd and the success of it. The sporting events in Grande Prairie,
nonpareil as far as turnout and same with entertainment
events.
2597
We don't run kickers on our newscasts, ladies and gentlemen, we run
stories on local events, charities, service clubs, area people who go the extra
mile to help people. And out of
these softer news stories at the end of our casts we often get very hard news
stories like a heartbreaking story of a lady from Beaverlodge who phoned me
whose daughter is serving in Afghanistan.
It made for a fantastic interview.
Another father who took part in a huge cancer relay a couple of weeks
ago, just a year and a half after his wife and daughter had died of the
disease. To me, that has always
made great radio whether you are living in Toronto or Grande Prairie and we do
our best. And I have to say,
mentioning some of these stories, terrific place for young news people to start,
because it is such a vibrant busy area.
2598
MR. ARNISH: Commissioner
Cram, if I just add to that. As you
are aware, we are adding a significant amount of spoken word in the news and
information portion of our application on The Drive if we receive a
licence. And we are hiring new
people, four new people for the newsroom to compliment our five that we have
already there.
2599
But I would like Gord just to spend just a brief moment to tell you or
perhaps even demonstrate to you that at the end of the day we are going to have
a major news commitment on The Drive, but the news presentation on The Drive
will be different than what the news presentation currently is on CJXX FM,
because we think that is very important that the way we write the news and
deliver the news is different than what we are doing currently on our country
station in Grande Prairie.
2600
MR. SHARP: Good morning, I
am Gord Sharp, Big Country News. So
close, but what a great run, the Canes beat the Oilers 3‑1 in Game 7 to win
their first Stanley Cup. We have
this report from Raleigh and Big Country Sports Director, Big Paul Thomas. Thanks, Paul. Cam Ward, born and raised just outside
Edmonton, Conn Smythe winner and boy is he cool as a cucumber throughout the
playoffs.
2601
Jim Dinning, leading candidate to replace Ralph Klein as Alberta
Conservative Leader, was in Grande Prairie yesterday just one day after
officially declaring his intentions to run for leader. Dinning told Big Country News he fully
supports the proposed $265 million hospital for the city, saying he sympathizes
with the healthcare crisis. The
Health Authority recently announced there is a shortage of 36 doctors and 25
nurses across our region.
2602
Grimshaw, a proud community this morning. Late yesterday Dr. Andries Botha
finished his climb up Mount Everest.
The physician who espouses a lifestyle of no alcohol, no nicotine and
lots of exercise is the oldest Canadian, at 56, to conquer Everest. He will join us on our news magazine
focus tonight by satellite phone.
2603
MR. NORMAN: Good morning, I
am Ken Norman, 104.5 The Drive news.
The only team happier than the Carolina Hurricanes is the Calgary Flames,
3‑1 Canes over the Oil last night.
The impossible dream ended in Game 7, Cam Ward playoff MVP, so
close.
2604
Premier wannabe Jim Dinning was in the city yesterday. The former Alberta treasurer said he
would support the proposed $265 million hospital and says the healthcare crisis
in Grande Prairie is a joke and he will clean it up when he replaces King
Ralph.
2605
Here is a sawbones that follows his own health advice, Grimshaw Dr.
Andries Botha has climbed Mount Everest.
At 56 he has become the oldest Canadian to do so. Have a beer, Doc, you deserve
it.
2606
MR. ARNISH: So that gives
you a bit of an example of how different the newscasts would be between CJXX,
our country station, and The Drive, our classic rock
station.
2607
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So just
let me figure this out. There is
four new news staff, four FTEs I guess I will call them, fulltime equivalents,
but then, Mr. Sharp, would you still be the director of
both?
2608
MR. SHARP: Yes, I would,
yes.
2609
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
2610
MR. NORMAN: And I should add
too, Commissioner Cram, the mandate that Gord has set out for his news employees
to file stories and get reports on our local area will be followed the same on
The Drive. And maybe Gord could
allude a little to what he does on XX FM now.
2611
MR. SHARP: We have a quota
of 50 stories per week per newsperson, myself included, and as I reach my 50th
year that becomes more difficult for me, but that is the quota we have. That works out to about 1,000 stories a
month. Sometimes it is way more
than that, because I can't stress how busy we are up in the Grande Prairie
area. Each one of these stories
runs a minimum of two, more likely four, times and that takes us well over the
25,000 mark per year. So news and
sports coverage is a huge part of what we do.
2612
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So do the
news people cover sports also?
2613
MR. SHARP: We have a
fulltime sports director. But
certainly, we have 80 years between all of us in the news department as far as
experience. A lot of us love
sports, so we help out. But he is
the fellow who covers the local Alberta Junior Hockey League team, he will cover
golf and curling. But if he needs
help, yes, we will pitch in.
2614
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. And how many news
staff would there be dedicated to programming, Mr. Norman or ‑‑ if I ask a
person I don't mean to restrict that person to answer.
2615
MR. NORMAN: Well,
Commissioner, the answer to that is four.
2616
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Four new
programming ‑‑ programming staff?
Okay.
2617
MR. NORMAN: Four
news.
2618
COMMISSIONER CRAM: No,
programming?
2619
MR. NORMAN: Oh, for
programming staff, yes. The
programming staff ‑‑ we have it listed that we will have 13 fulltime staff
and two part‑timers. And as
fulltime staff, we will have a program director/announcer, morning announcer,
midday announcer, afternoon Drive announcer, and evening weekend, evening
weekend, so that works out to six fulltime.
2620
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Now you
did say live‑to‑air the full time.
Now you really mean live‑to‑air save and excepting that one program, Off
the Record?
2621
MR. ARNISH: That is
correct.
2622
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And would
you accept that as a COL?
2623
MR. ARNISH: Yes, we sure
would.
2624
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Now you
say, and I found it fascinating, you say that you would be live‑to‑air "over the
complete first term of the licence".
What about the second?
2625
MR. ARNISH: I think we would
continue to do that in the second and third and fourth without
question.
2626
COMMISSIONER CRAM: It
was ‑‑
2627
MR. ARNISH: It is a fair
question.
2628
COMMISSIONER CRAM: ‑‑ jarring looking at it, yes. In terms of synergies with the existing
station ‑‑ and I want to start with news and programming synergies first
and then we will get into the other.
So either one of you, Mr. Sharp or Mr. Norman or Mr. ‑‑ I
mean..
2629
MR. SHARP: You mean as far
as Big Country news staff helping out The Drive news
staff?
2630
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Yes.
2631
MR. SHARP: The Drive news
staff would have their own mandate as far as working that. We would all work out of the same news
department. We would, you know,
really try not to duplicate up on meetings, so we could use people to cover a
lot more in the area. But we need
to stress here that The Drive news people would be for The Drive FM and Big
Country people would be for Big Country, because while they would help each
other out and, because I have a background in sports, I believe greatly in
working as a team, they would be two very separate radio stations and news
departments.
2632
COMMISSIONER CRAM: It sounds
like though, Mr. Sharp, that because you are going to be the only news director,
there is really no sort of editorial independence in the sense of one being
completely independent from the other.
I mean, you are going to be their boss, so you would be able to say I
want this covered, I don't want this covered, that kind of
thing?
2633
MR. SHARP: There would be
some of that, but we would follow the laws of news, of course, and we would, you
know, cover as much as we can on both stations. There is so much to cover up there
that.. But I can guarantee you that
both stations would be different from a news perspective.
2634
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And what
about programming?
2635
MR. NORMAN: Programming
would be separate as well. The only
synergies we really have are the nine management positions and/or
administration. The rest of it
would be like ‑‑ and they are in different buildings, except for, you know,
we will obviously have the same General Manager, myself, and Gord in the
newsroom, Anne as our Sales Manager for both, that type of
thing.
2636
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Did you
say you are going to be in a different building?
2637
MR. NORMAN: No, I am
sorry.
2638
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Oh okay,
you are going to be in the same building?
2639
MR. NORMAN: Yes, we
will.
2640
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And then
you have what I will call DJ talk of 11 hours and 21 minutes. Maybe I shouldn't ‑‑ DJ talk would
be six hours and the rest would be scripted interstitial? I am back at your handy dandy sheet
here.
2641
MR. NORMAN: Yes, I will call
on Gerry Siemens to help me out a little bit with this one. The announcer dialogue, is we had
forecast ‑‑ for instance, our plans are to be on the air for 18 hours a
day. So what we have done there,
Commissioner, is calculated in the talk per hour that the announcers will
do.
2642
MR. SIEMENS: Well,
Commissioner Cram, Commissioner Langford yesterday gave some applicants some
homework and, frankly, I am not that big an Oilers fan, so I did that ahead of
time last night.
2643
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Everybody is saying that now.
2644
MR. SIEMENS: It is true, it
is true. So to walk you through our
spoken word programming schedule, you already know that we have committed to
nine hours, 15 minutes of news and sports and surveillance material of three
hours and 30 minutes, which would include rapidly changing weather conditions
and road reports and so on, so that is a total of 12 hours and 45 minutes. Now, we also committed to a Fun Chaser,
which will be throughout the Grande Prairie and region phoning back reports from
all sorts of community events and we have those scheduled 28 times a week, they
will be about two minutes in duration, so that is 56 minutes for the course of
the week.
2645
The Electric Lunch and Brunch actually is on for nine hours in the course
of the week. We allowed for 10
minutes of dialogue in that program.
And if that sounds like a lot, it is really not, if you consider four
breaks in the course of an hour at two and a half minutes while we engage our
listeners in requests and other dialogue, it is not that much. But it does workout to one hour and 30
minutes in the course of the week.
Ear to the Tracks, 10 minutes of dialogue in the course of the
program. As you pointed out,
Commissioner Cram, it will be quite likely scripted. And Live Wire and so on, 16 minutes and
eight minutes respectively. The
Canadian Rock Review is 90 seconds in duration, it will be on 14 times a week,
which accounts for another 21 minutes.
2646
And as to announcer dialogue, at 120 hours when you take out the block
programming that we already alluded to there, we thought four minutes an hour
would be reasonable, that is four breaks an hour at two minutes in the course of
a break, which is another six hours, which brought us up to 11 hours, 21 minutes
in interstitial talk for a total spoken word commitment of 23 hours and 51
minutes for the course of a week.
2647
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay, so
the ones that are then scripted would include Ear to the Tracks and what
else?
2648
MR. SIEMENS: Ear to the
Tracks, Live Wire, Border Walk or Border Crossings and the Canadian Rock
Review.
2649
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay,
thank you. Have you figured out a
percentage of music to spoken word or spoken word to music? So if I use my mathematical skills and
took 23 hours, 51 minutes divided by 126, I would come up with the
percentage?
2650
MR. SIEMENS: You would, so
would I if I had a calculator.
2651
COMMISSIONER CRAM: No, I can
just do it in my head.
2652
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You
might want to undertake to bring that number in yourself.
2653
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Knowing
that I got 64 in grade 12 algebra and have not forgotten it obviously. To your CTD, I first wanted to start
with Save the Music Foundation and I guess I need to figure out the
structure. On page 7 you talk about
the Save the Music Foundation. Now,
that is actually going to be a foundation?
2654
MR. ARNISH: Yes,
Commissioner Cram, just maybe I will give you some background because when we
were in Calgary you were not at the hearing, but I think you have heard about
the Save the Music Foundation. We
are very proud of this new Canadian Talent Development initiative. I am going to get Gerry to answer your
question in some more detail here in a moment, but I just though I would give
you some quick background history on it.
2655
When we were getting our team together to talk about Calgary and also
Grande Prairie, and we also took a look at Fort McMurray as well, we decided at
the end of the day that we thought that it would be great to create something
new, some brand new initiative for Canadian talent in
Canada.
2656
So we go back about a year ago now and one day I was talking to our legal
counsel, Chris Weafer, on the phone about the application and I said to Chris, I
said, "How is my tuba buddy doing?"
Because, as I said, in Calgary I play tuba. And Ryan, his son, plays tuba in a high
school band in North Vancouver. So
Chris went on to tell me about what the band program was doing at Seacove
Secondary in North Vancouver and how much fun these kids were having with music
as being part of their life and their youth in this day and age. And we got into a discussion about
funding for school music programs.
2657
And out of that, long story short, we decided to have a meeting with Mr.
Lee, who is the head music educator at Seacove Secondary, and we had a really
good discussion with him about under‑funding for music programs of all sorts in
the school system in general right across the country, because he has major
contact with music educators across the country. He then put us in touch with Willie
Connell of the Rocky Mountain Music Festival and really the rest is
history.
2658
And I will turn it over to Gerry to give you a brief description about
the foundation and how we are going to set it up and how it is going to
operate. It is very exciting. We have made major commitments in
Calgary, as you know, well over $3 million in commitments to the CTD initiative,
$700,000 here in Grande Prairie and we are looking at other opportunities to put
way more money into this fund that is going to be for true emerging Canadian
talent. And we heard about emerging
Canadian talent at the radio hearing in Ottawa. I can't think of better money spent than
on Canada's youth when it comes to music.
So with that, I will turn it over to Gerry and he can fill you in with
some more detail.
2659
MR. SIEMENS: I think the
first point I would like to try to make clear is that our goal is not to take
the place of government. We think
that government have a responsibility to educate our youth in music and in all
facets of their education and that is their job and they should do that job and
they do do that job.
2660
However, government can only go so far. And the Save the Music Foundation is
being developed to identify and to help kick to the next level the best of the
best that the school music programs have to offer and that can come by way of a
whole bunch of different things.
And Save the Music Foundation will not primarily exist to buy a French
horn for a young person in Beaverlodge because they can't afford it. We would do that, of course, if we were
asked, but that is not the primary function.
2661
The primary function is to give these kids that are coming out of school
a leg up to the next level and we can do that by mentoring programs for music
educators. More and more educators
are coming out of college and they are reluctant to get into music programs
because they fear it could be a short‑term deal. So we would develop mentoring programs
for music educators, mentoring programs for students by bringing in qualified
musicians, professional musicians, role models that they can look up to and also
to assist in fundraising for all sorts of different
things.
2662
In Calgary, Commissioner Cram, we had four young men from North Vancouver
sing Acappella at the hearing and they were outstanding. And I made the point at that hearing
that those four young men had been asked to perform on behalf of Canada in
Belgium and in Japan and couldn't go on either occasion because they couldn't
raise the money. More recently they
have been asked to perform at Carnegie Hall in New York and so they are back out
conducting bake sales and carwashes and leaning on their parents. So that is the sort of thing that the
Music Foundation could step up and do.
2663
Last night the winner of the Conn Smythe trophy was a young man who grew
up just a few miles from here in Sherwood Park, a great young goaltender. Now, when he was learning his craft and
when he got to a point where he could compete he was moved to a junior hockey
level, I am sure, where he could play at a very high level and determine if he
had the goods to turn pro or not.
Unfortunately, in the music education system there is no Western Hockey
League and that is kind of what we are talking about what we are designed to
do.
2664
Just one more thought and then I will let you ask your next
question. But you asked is this
actually a foundation. It will
be. We have an application pending
for the purchase of Island Radio and there are some funds earmarked from our
initiatives there to the Save the Music Foundation. We hope for approval on that application
and that we will start the Music Foundation. We are already sponsors of the Canadian
Rocky Mountain Music Festival as the Pattison Group and we also have funds
earmarked for the Save the Music Foundation from our purchase of the O.K. Radio
Group in Victoria, so we are on our way.
2665
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Well,
that at least answered my question about why B.C. should get any money. Because previously, Mr. Arnish was only
talking about Calgary, here and another place in Alberta, and I am thinking why
should B.C. people get any money just because Mr. Weafer is
there.
2666
MR. ARNISH: No, the funding
is available to all school districts, all school music programs in British
Columbia and Alberta.
2667
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And
Alberta. And I am not getting this
and it is my legal mind, you are going to create a foundation, a separate
entity, and how is it going to be separate? Like, are you going to be on the
board? I mean, like
what..?
2668
MR. ARNISH: Sure, we can
answer that. We talked about that
in Calgary as well. I will have
Gerry give you an outline on it. We
are in the process right now of registering it as a foundation, as a society,
and that process is ongoing at this point in time. We will have an independent board of
directors, we will have some members of the Pattison Broadcast Group as part of
that board. But for the most part,
and Gerry can give you a breakdown, the makeup of the board is going to come
from the Rocky Mountain Music Festival.
2669
And school districts or if a music educator wants to start an elementary
school band in Beaverlodge, for example, or High River, whatever the case may
be, it may even be here in Grande Prairie, they can certainly come forward and
apply for funding for that. The
Save the Music Foundation will look at the funding for a program like that and
make a decision at the end of the day whether they feel that that program should
be funded or should it be something else.
But all the money will be dispensed on an annual basis and we will report
where that money is spent as part of our annual CRTC returns at the end of the
year.
2670
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Will
Pattison be the majority shareholder?
Who will have control of the foundation?
2671
MR. ARNISH: The Rocky
Mountain Music Festival will have control of the
foundation.
2672
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So the
foundation is in fact the partnership that you were talking about on page
7 ‑‑
2673
MR. ARNISH: That is
correct.
2674
COMMISSIONER CRAM: ‑‑ with the Canadian..? Okay.
2675
MR. ARNISH: That is
correct.
2676
COMMISSIONER CRAM: But it
will be controlled by the Canadian Rocky Mountain Music
Festival?
2677
MR. ARNISH: That is
correct.
2678
MR. SIEMENS: Commissioner
Cram, we anticipate four board meetings a year. Willie Connell, who you are going to
meet probably tomorrow from the Canadian Rocky Mountain Music Festival, will be
here to speak to that. But there
are no administrative costs from the radio stations. The board will operate on its own and,
yes of course, there will be Pattison representation on the board, but it will
be controlled by the board itself.
2679
COMMISSIONER CRAM: What
about the admin costs of the foundation, who pays that? Is some of this money going to go to the
admin costs or is it just going to go to seminars, bursaries, scholarships, high
school instruments, regional talent competitions?
2680
MR. ARNISH: I don't
anticipate there will be any administrative costs really. The board will be responsible for a pool
of money, yet to be determined how large, which will go in and directly back out
to the students and music programs that make application for
it.
2681
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Who will
be receiving and processing the applications and assessing
them?
2682
MR. ARNISH: The Canadian
Rocky Mountain Music Festival.
2683
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay, on
behalf of the foundation then, at their cost?
2684
MR. ARNISH: Yes,
Commissioner Cram.
2685
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. And do you as yet
have ‑‑ what is the word ‑‑ a definitive list of where the monies will
go, in the sense of they shall not go here, they shall go to this, this, this,
this?
2686
MR. ARNISH: No, we haven't
because we haven't got the foundation up and running yet. We are waiting on some decisions to come
from the CRTC. We have put some
money into the Rocky Mountain Music Festival, as Mr. Siemens mentioned, we
sponsored the Rocky Mountain Music Festival this year, the Jim Pattison
Broadcast Group. We haven't gotten
down to the definitive terms of that yet, but we are in the process of working
on those and we would be most pleased to file those with the Commission as soon
as that is done as well.
2687
COMMISSIONER CRAM: I notice
that when you were talking about the other commitments, the CWC Career
Accelerator and there was another one for radio ‑‑
2688
MR. ARNISH:
Métis.
2689
COMMISSIONER CRAM: ‑‑ the career accelerator designated
groups.
2690
MR. ARNISH:
Yes.
2691
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And then
you had GPR College. And you
have ‑‑ I guess it looks like you have refined it more, an employment
equity initiative in alliance with the Métis Nation of Alberta. Now, you recognize that none of these
are CTD as defined by us and I see you call it a significant financial
commitment as opposed to CTD?
2692
MR. ARNISH: Well we had this
discussion in Calgary and it is a great question, because it does give us the
opportunity I guess to sort of wave the flag for Canada and wave the flag for
the broadcasting industry in general.
Yes, we clearly understand what Canadian Talent Development initiatives
are all about. But the industry is
struggling, in our opinion, to bring along new people into the industry, it is
struggling to bring new people into the industry that are in the four designated
groups. We do a great job in women
but, as you know, in Aboriginals, people with disabilities and First Nations, we
could do better, the industry as a whole could do better, but it is tough
getting qualified people.
2693
I am a very strong believer in the promotion of women in management. I think the industry, over the last few
years has done a great job with that but we can do a better job. And we do believe the initiatives that
we put on the table here related to this Grande Prairie application is for
Canadian Talent Development. It may
not be in the musical genre of pure Canadian talent, but we believe it is in
Canadian talent of women, Aboriginal persons, people with disabilities, so on
and so forth and giving them the opportunity to train, to join this fabulous
industry of broadcasting and radio and television and we look up on our
commitments as truly pure CTD. It
may not be in the criteria of the Commission, but that is the way we look at
it.
2694
MR. SIEMENS: If I might just
elaborate on that, Commissioner Cram.
We recognized when we wrote the application, and the one in Calgary as
well, that these proposals we were putting forward are colouring outside the
line a little bit and we take full responsibility for that and embrace
that.
2695
We just look at these programs ‑‑ we think they should be Canadian
Talent Development, but even if they are not we have clearly identified them for
you as a tangible benefit, because we think these programs are so
worthwhile. I mean, we are all
struggling to boost our employment equity, to find Aboriginal persons and others
that want to get into our industry, that need some encouragement to get into our
industry, need some barriers lowered and we think that these programs all do
that.
2696
And what is more, the small markets need programs like these. We just heard an applicant yesterday
saying how hard it is to attract people to smaller markets that fit the
criteria. So we need more people in
the pool, that is what we need and we think this does that. So is it Canadian Talent
Development? We think so. But if it is not, it is definitely a
tangible benefit and we stand by it.
2697
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And you
would accept a COL that you would spend these monies?
2698
MR. ARNISH:
Absolutely.
2699
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Mr.
Norman, how many Aboriginals do you have on staff in Grande
Prairie?
2700
MR. NORMAN: At present in
Grande Prairie we do not have any.
2701
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And what
kind of programming do you have sort of geared towards
Aboriginals?
2702
MR. NORMAN: We have a number
of community events we take part in and Gord Sharp, in a second, could allude a
little more to that. Also, Ms Anne
Graham is involved not only as a sales rep with our radio station but as a
community liaison too. And in the
north there is a significant Aboriginal population and quite a few events going
on. So I will pass it to Gord to
comment on that.
2703
MR. SHARP: We have done lots
of news stories with Aboriginal groups.
There are seven First Nations within a 100‑mile radius of Grande Prairie,
very active, done a lot of stories with the Métis group. The closest First Nations to Grande
Prairie is Horse Lake, they are very active in the sporting community and
Sturgeon Lake is another one very active.
We have done a lot of stories with them over the
years.
2704
COMMISSIONER CRAM: What do
you do to recruit Aboriginals, Mr. Norman?
2705
MR. NORMAN: We have made
some significant inroads in that.
Unfortunately, at this time, we still do not have an Aboriginal working
for us. But we are working on that
and a program has been established by our sister station in the Pattison Group
in Medicine Hat who have taken the initiative to get things rolling for our
company.
2706
And you will meet Greg King tomorrow from the Métis Nation or when he
appears. Greg is really excited
about this new program, Teaming the Métis Nation of Alberta. He is the Head of Education for the
Métis Nation of Alberta based here in Edmonton. And he is really excited about teaming
up with the program we have for audio visual and new media at Grande Prairie
Regional College. He said it is an
opportunity of a lifetime and he said I love classic rock, can I be an announcer
part‑time, so I might end up with somebody there. But you will meet Greg tomorrow and we
truly are trying to make this an initiative.
2707
MR. ARNISH: You know, we
talk about this in our whole group all the time because we meet quarterly and we
meet often. We take employment
equity very seriously and, you know, even in some of our larger centres that are
in small markets, Kamloops, Kelowna, Prince George, for example, Red Deer, even
in Vancouver, it is extremely difficult, and I think other broadcasters in the
room would say this as well, to find qualified people from the Aboriginal
community. And I think some of
these programs that we are talking about here, these new initiatives with the
Alberta Métis Association and the Grande Prairie Regional College go a long way
in trying to foster people that will be trained to join us or join others in the
industry as a whole.
2708
And we have had people from First Nations that have done well, they have
come and joined us. I will give you
an example. In Kamloops, we had a
camera person who was a First Nations fellow and we hired him, he did very well,
he came along and then the big market stations in Vancouver found out about him
and hired him away from us, which is fine, we are glad he could pursue his
career in Vancouver and it was a great opportunity and more money and all
that. But we had a difficult time
trying to replace that position and I don't think to this day we were able to do
that in that particular area.
2709
It is tough, there is no doubt about it. But I think all of us in this room, I
think all broadcasters are trying to grow the quotas, if I can use that
terminology, in that and other areas as well. We believe, in the Pattison Group, that
is our responsibility, we should be doing that.
2710
MR. SHARP: It is very hard
to find workers in the Grande Prairie area. And the Grande Prairie Regional
College ‑‑
2711
COMMISSIONER CRAM: In any
event.
2712
MR. SHARP:
Sorry?
2713
COMMISSIONER CRAM: In any
event, it is hard to find anybody.
2714
MR. SHARP: Yes, that is
right. And just a couple of months
ago Grande Prairie Regional College started a program to help train heavy duty
operators in the Aboriginal community and they have had some great luck with
that and we did several stories on that.
And they are hoping that will help people from the Peace Country and
Aboriginal people from the Peace Country get good‑paying jobs which will be in
the area for a long time. So yes,
we need to work harder at it, but we are doing as many stories as we can on it
as well.
2715
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Moving
onto finance. You say that 80 per
cent of your revenue will come from the incumbents. How much of that will come from
O.K.?
2716
MR. ARNISH: I will have Anne
and Kim talk to you about that, how we put our business plan together. Kim.
2717
MS McKECHNIE: Thank you,
Commissioner Cram. I believe in our
deficiency letter we indicated that based on local advertising revenues from the
existing licensees in the market approximately 80 per cent of the revenue from
the new station will come from local advertisers rather than other
stations.
2718
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay. So
what percentage of your revenue do you think will come from
O.K.?
2719
MS McKECHNIE: Well, do you
want me to give you a breakdown of where all our revenue is going to come
from?
2720
COMMISSIONER CRAM: No, just
percentage of your revenues that would come from that one
incumbent.
2721
MS McKECHNIE: Well, we are
estimating around 20 per cent is going to come from other stations, but that
would include our own as well.
2722
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Yes.
2723
MS McKECHNIE: So if we split
the difference, 10 per cent.
2724
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Oh, you
think it would be about 10 per cent?
2725
MS McKECHNIE: It is a
guesstimate.
2726
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. And of course you are
the incumbent and you again have high high revenues, second only to O.K. in
projections, and the same question as my colleague, Commissioner Langford, asked
O.K., why are you so bullish?
2727
MR. ARNISH: Well, I can let
our team talk to you about that. We
have been in the market a long time.
We have been in the market as long as O.K. has to a degree. We know the market very well, the market
has grown over the last probably five to seven years quite nicely and we project
a growth, as you heard from other applicants at this hearing as well, for Grande
Prairie will continue over the next coming years as well. We know the marketplace without
question. And when we put this
business plan together we felt that with a pure classic rock radio station, our
commitment to news and spoken word programming that we are going to repatriate a
lot of the listeners.
2728
We went out, and Anne can talk about this, we went out and talked to a
number of our clients, over 100 of our clients, about would they increase their
budgets, would they look at supporting a station like this. And I am going to let her give you some
finite detail, but at the end of the day when we went out and did our homework,
and we always do our homework, we do our due diligence. We realized at the end of the day that
we could launch this new station in Grande Prairie ‑‑ because we built our
business plan on their only being one station in Grande Prairie, I will say
that, because that is what the call for licences was for ‑‑ but we felt
very strongly that the marketplace could support this station and then at the
end of the day we realized perhaps it could support
two.
2729
Anne.
2730
MS GRAHAM: I am just going
to, for one moment, defer this to Kim McKechnie who would just like to further
comment on that and then I will address the issue as well.
2731
MS McKECHNIE: I will give
you the long boring math version how we came up with those numbers. In projecting the revenues for The Drive
we used our revenues from our existing station in Grande Prairie at the time we
prepared the application so, of course, that was going back sometime around
2004. We assumed that our
competitor was doing roughly the same, which gives us a figure of around $7
million. Based on the historical
growth in the market around 3 per cent we bumped that up to
$7.2.
2732
From there, we projected at approximately there would be about 10 per
cent growth in at least year one and year two when you are adding an additional
station. The 10 per cent figure we
arrive at for revenue is based on new businesses to Grande Prairie, not just to
radio, but to Grande Prairie. Then
existing businesses who may not have, in the past, had a venue for their ads and
then incremental users. The
estimate is, in part, a bit of an educated guess as well based on our
experiences in, more specifically, Red Deer, as a recent
example.
2733
To test the formulas then we went out into the market and polled 100
business with approximately 40 per cent of them indicating that they would
increase their advertising budgets to add the rock station into their mix. So this, coupled with the new
businesses, should comfortably bring us to our 10 per cent projected growth in
each of year one and year two.
2734
Our research shows us that we can expect at least 25 per cent market
share. So calculating our share of
the projected market brings this figure to $2 million in year one with similar
growth in year two. We assume that
these figures will slow to a more normal pace throughout the remaining term of
the licence and beyond. And I will
just let Anne elaborate on what the business polling
was.
2735
MS GRAHAM: Thanks, Kim. As we talked to more than 100 businesses
in Grande Prairie in March of 2006 and the results came in that, as Kim had
mentioned earlier, the 40 per cent of those surveyed indicated that they would
be willing to support and they were looking forward to advertising on a classic
rock radio station. Forty per cent
of the respondents also indicated that they would shift some advertising dollars
around, maybe repatriate some of the dollars that was bleeding from the
community in the trade area which is going to some of the other stations that,
although they sell on the market they don't really serve the radio market or the
Grande Prairie market, sorry.
2736
And about 20 per cent of them had responded that ‑‑ or sorry, 20 per
cent were not using radio in the market at this time because they just didn't
feel that the two existing stations could serve or reach the target demographic
that they were seeking. However,
with the excitement of the classic rock radio format that could be coming to the
market, they would definitely use it and would definitely spend advertising
dollars on The Drive.
2737
MS McKECHNIE: I might just
like to add that in our revenue figures we are projecting about 20 per cent of
that is going to come from national buys.
In an unrated market they tend to buy the campaign across the board for
all the stations, so that money should be instant.
2738
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Now, I
just wanted to get into non‑programming synergies. It would be sharing space I suppose,
admin, back office, anything else?
2739
MR. NORMAN: Commissioner
Cram, there would be technical, sales, promotion and management positions, yes,
and same office space, yes.
2740
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes,
okay. Now, Mr. Arnish, you have
just said that Grande Prairie could have two new licences. Are you going to go for three? I mean, two years ago when you made this
application it was one, so two years later it is two. People won't launch next year maybe, so
I mean should we go for three?
2741
MR. ARNISH: Great question,
I knew it was coming. You are
right, when we did our business plan, we alluded to that earlier, we built the
business plan on one radio station.
We guesstimated, as you heard Kim say, that we felt that the O.K. station
was probably doing equally or maybe even perhaps better. I mean, we don't know all the finite
details on the market. So we
guesstimated that even though if we put a business plan together that is similar
to ours that the market can support the additional one
station.
2742
But the application goes back to a year, year and a half ago when we
started to put it together and you have heard and we agree with it, that the
marketplace has certainly continued to grow and perhaps will continue to grow
into the future. I don't have a
crystal ball, I am not sure what is going to happen with the lumber industry,
the pulp and paper industry, the oil and natural gas industry. I think they are still going to have
bright futures.
2743
So in answer to your question, if you look today at what the marketplace
is doing I and we believe that the market could support two radio stations with
diverse formats. But again, I guess
I would just pitch my line that I talked to you about earlier, that I think we
have to be careful about ‑‑ if the market can support two, should it be two
new independents or should it be two new diverse formats. We have been in a number of markets
where there has been more owners in the marketplace than two and it hasn't been
good for the marketplace. There is
predatory pricing wars, there is a merging of formats together to get the
greatest audience share for advertising
revenues.
2744
I do believe at the end of the day that the marketplace can support two
radio stations, two new commercial stations. I do believe and I will say this, in
this particular case they should go to the incumbents. I think the incumbents will ensure again
at the end of the day that there will be a modern rock station geared to young
males 18 to 34 and are demographic geared to males in the classic rock
genre.
2745
If the Commission decides at the end of the day that the specialty
applicant, Mr. Hunsperger, Touch Canada, has a good application before you and
decides at the end of the day that that licence should get approval in Grande
Prairie, we don't believe that will impact the two
incumbents.
2746
I guess the other thing, talking about if you licence two new
independents, not only does it impact the marketplace with predatory pricing and
formats going to the middle, but it certainly could impact the spoken word of
the two current incumbent stations in Grande Prairie as well because you have to
become more efficient at the end of the day. I wouldn't like to see that happen, but
it has happened in other markets.
2747
COMMISSIONER CRAM: But
surely, I mean with the PBITs you would have to go a long way
before?
2748
MR. ARNISH: I think you
would but I guess, again, I will just reemphasize my point again, that I think
what is in the best interest of the general public and the Broadcasting Act and
the community of Grande Prairie is to have, if you are going to licence two,
have four very distinct formats.
And I think you can achieve that, Madam Commissioner, by licensing the
two incumbents, because we will follow through with four distinct
formats.
2749
It has worked very well in many other markets that we are in. In fact, I think you could ask other
radio competitors that are appearing before you here for Grande Prairie that
they have had the same type of situation in markets that they are in that we are
not in.
2750
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And you
know, Mr. Arnish, the alternate frequency question?
2751
MR. ARNISH: Yes, we have
talked to our consulting engineer, Mr. Hanke, who is here if you wish him to
come forward to make a statement on the record on that. He has told me there is five other
frequencies available in Grande Prairie and we should have no difficulty if we
can't use the proposed ‑‑ there is five plus our own I should say, for
six ‑‑ if for some reason you don't allow us to use the frequency that we
have proposed to the CRTC.
2752
COMMISSIONER CRAM: None of
which will impact your projections?
2753
MR. ARNISH: No, not at
all.
2754
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you. Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
2755
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Arnish. When you spoke with my
colleague regarding the Save the Music Foundation it prompted me to look at the
CIRPA intervention. I don't
necessarily need that you specifically answer to the specifics of the CIRPA if
you want to wait for the Phase 4.
But if you are not planning to wait for the Phase 4, can I have your
comments on the fact that they are making the case that CARAS MusiCan is doing
exactly what the Save the Music Foundation is planning to do. Do you have any comments? And you can reserve your comments to
Phase 4, because I saw that you have a written reply, but you didn't really
address the specifics of that comment from CIRPA.
2756
MR. ARNISH: I might wait
until Phase 4, but I guess I could say at this point in time we understand the
CIRPA intervention and I think we have responded to it in‑kind and we have given
a very detailed outlook on our viewpoint ‑‑
2757
THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but
not specifically to the argument that CIRPA makes that CARAS MusiCan is a
foundation that ‑‑
2758
MR. ARNISH:
Yes.
2759
THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ has the same purpose than the Save the Music
Foundation.
2760
MR. ARNISH: We are a great
support ‑‑ the Pattison Group record I think speaks for itself, is a great
supporter of FACTOR, we received a very nice award from them last year at the
Canadian Association of Broadcasters Convention for ‑‑ along with other
broadcasting companies as well. We
certainly support the CAB Starmaker and Radio Fund‑‑ Starmaker Fund, those are
great programs as well. We just
believe in Western Canada. There
isn't a program of this such, of this type that could benefit where it will
benefit the most and that is with youth in musical programs, in high schools and
youth coming out of high school and wanting the help and the opportunity to be
taken to the next big level and make themselves the best of the
best.
2761
As I said in Calgary, around our table in the Pattison Broadcast Group we
are extremely proud of this legacy ‑‑ if you give us the opportunity we
will be extremely proud of this legacy that our broadcast group can leave to
Canada's youth. And as I discussed,
I think even funding from our foundation for a jazz band from Grande Prairie to
travel to Chicoutimi to exchange Canadian youth viewpoints in Canada I think is
a wonderful opportunity. And this
fund that we have set up will allow that to be a legacy going forward. And as I said in Calgary, I think
Canadians talking to Canadians is what we have to do. We have to continue that process,
especially young Canadians talking to young Canadians and what better way than
through music and them exchanging ideas and exchanging travel between one
province and the other.
2762
THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, could
you look specifically at CARAS MusiCan, so we have answer for the
record?
2763
MR. ARNISH: Yes, I
will.
2764
THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, now
it is it the last opportunity that you have to pitch for your inquiry, so I am
giving you two minutes to tell us why the Pattison Group should get the
licence.
2765
MR. ARNISH: Thank you very
much, Mr. Chairman Arpin.
2766
I will be brief, as I have just seven points to make. The Jim Pattison Broadcast Group
believes that the granting of a new FM station in Grande Prairie, as we have
proposed, will meet the objectives of the Broadcasting Act as well as
contributing to the objectives that the Commission outlined in its commercial
radio policy of 1998 and which is currently under review with the recent CRTC
Radio Review.
2767
First, the proposed station will add a new and distinctive format to the
City of Grande Prairie. The new
Drive FM would accomplish that without duplicating music currently being exposed
on either Grande Prairie FM station.
2768
Second, the application by the Pattison Broadcast Group includes a
comprehensive package of tangible benefits that totals $2,075,000 in direct
costs and an additional $2.1 million in indirect expenses, which equals to
$4,175,000. The Canadian talent
initiatives are well thought out and are designed to have an immediate and a
positive effect in Northern Alberta.
2769
Three, the application by the Pattison Broadcast Group includes a
significant commitment to news and information spoken word content. In a rural community access to
information is critical and we have responded with a promise of a minimum of
nine hours and 15 minutes of new news and sports coverage weekly, plus a minimum
of additional three hours and 30 minutes in live local surveillance
information.
2770
Four, approval of our application will result in the creation of at least
15 new jobs in the broadcast industry.
2771
Five, licensing a new station to the Pattison Broadcast Group will
strengthen one of the very few multi‑station broadcasting companies based
Western Canada. It will allow us to
develop positive synergies with our existing station in Grande Prairie and will
deepen our commitment to the north.
2772
Six, the Pattison Broadcast Group understands and thrives on small‑market
radio. We are thoroughly familiar
with the special relationship between a radio station and the community in small
markets. We embrace the extra level
of civic service required of small market stations and that, combined with the
synergies we would develop with our existing Grande Prairie station, will allow
us to provide a level of service to the community that a standalone station will
find difficult to match.
2773
And seven, our company is based in Western Canada with a strong
contingent of stations throughout Alberta.
We have strong connections to the social, political and economic life in
the province. The residents,
listeners and business community of Grande Prairie have unequivocally endorsed
our application for 104.7 The Drive with 107 letters of support, a 350‑name
petition and countless interveners wishing to appear on our behalf at this
hearing.
2774
Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, our group plays an intricate
role in the make‑up of the community of Grande Prairie. The community has recognized this
commitment by giving us their overwhelming support for a second FM radio
licence. We won't disappoint them
or you if you grant us this privileged opportunity.
2775
On behalf of the entire Jim Pattison Broadcast Group team I thank you for
this opportunity to appear before you and wish you well in your
deliberations.
2776
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much, Mr. Arnish. Thank you
very much to your team.
2777
We will break for lunch and we will start at 2:00.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1301 /
Suspension à 1301
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1411 / Reprise
à 1411
2778
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
for waiting. We will resume the
hearing.
2779
Madam Secretary, could you introduce the next
applicant.
2780
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
2781
We will now proceed with Item No. 8 on the agenda, which is an
application by Vista Radio Limited for a licence to operate an English language
FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Grande Prairie. The new station would operate on
frequency 104.7 MHz (channel 284C) with an effective radiated power of 100,000
watts (non‑directional antenna/ antenna height of 218.1
metres).
2782
Appearing for the applicant is Ms Margot Micallef who will introduce
her colleagues.
2783
You will then have 20 minutes for your
presentation.
2784
Ms Micallef...?
PRESENTATION /
PRÉSENTATION
2785
MS MICALLEF: Thank
you.
2786
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, CRTC
staff.
2787
Before commencing our presentation I will introduce our
panel.
2788
My name is Margot Micallef and I'm the Chair and CEO of Vista Radio
Limited. To my immediate left is
Bryan Edwards the President of Vista Radio Limited. To his immediate left is Jason Mann our
Vice‑President Programming. To
Jason's immediate left is Glenn Hicks our Director of News and Spoken Word for
Vista Radio. To my right is Paul
Mann Executive Vice‑President Operations for Vista
Radio.
2789
Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, we are now ready to start our
presentation.
2790
It is an honour to appear before you today with an application for a new
FM station to serve Grande Prairie, Alberta. The basis of our proposal is
simple. Grande Prairie has a
booming and expanding economy estimated by the Financial Post at $1.2 billion
annually and there is a clear demand for additional choice by the citizens of
Grande Prairie.
2791
Vista will introduce a distinct format to Grande Prairie designed to
reach one of the largest unserved segments of the adult radio listening
population.
2792
Vista has a strong well funded business plan which will enable Vista to
ably compete with the two well established commercial broadcasters already in
Grande Prairie.
2793
Vista will bring a new editorial voice to northwestern Alberta. Vista will make a significant direct
contribution to the development of Canadian talent and, finally, by providing a
new radio station reflective of the community with a significant emphasis on
local programming. Our application
will clearly meet your licensing criteria and benefit the Canadian broadcast
system.
2794
MR. EDWARDS: Vista Radio's
commitment is to be a strong western Canadian small and medium market
broadcaster providing local content which is relevant and very connected to the
needs of our audiences.
2795
The addition of an FM station in Grande Prairie helps form the foundation
of our expansion into Alberta where most of our shareholders currently
reside. In fact, a group of our
shareholders are the founders of one of the largest employers in the Grande
Prairie area. Birchcliff Energy has
invested upwards to $300 million in the area and shares Vista's values of
supporting the communities in which we operate.
2796
As a small market broadcaster Vista has and continues to make major
commitments in all of the communities we are licensed to serve. We have local management in place at all
of our stations and all of them make local decisions in the best interests of
their respective markets.
2797
Vista not only endeavours to employ people locally but to ensure that
each of our stations has sufficient on air and information personnel to deliver
a distinct musical sound, excellent local news and an absolute dedication to the
communities in which we operate. We
view our stations not only as the voice of their communities but the building
blocks of those communities as well.
We support the issues which are important to our
listeners.
2798
Over the past 60 days we have raised a total of almost $100,000 for the
Cowichan Regional Hospital in Duncan, the Therapeutic Riding Association in
Powell River and the Children's Miracle Network in Prince
George.
2799
Our business plan is threefold:
one, to give each of our stations a professional sound with its unique
identity; two, to staff each of our stations with local personnel; and, three,
to deliver local programming relevant to that community.
2800
MR. P. MANN: Why Grande
Prairie? Because Grande Prairie is
clearly an underserved radio market.
2801
You have heard yesterday and today from all seven of the applicants who
have preceded us that Grande Prairie is a thriving city and the citizens of
Grande Prairie are crying out for more choice. You have also heard that advertisers and
others can't get on the air and that significant advertising dollars are leaving
radio and the community.
2802
For example, we have been told that significant radio revenue is being
taken out of the market to stations in Fort St. John, Dawson Creek and Peace
River. More choice in Grande
Prairie and more radio inventory in Grande Prairie will help repatriate some of
that market spending and further grow what has already been confirmed by one of
the incumbents at something approaching a $9 million radio market. This number is substantially higher than
any of the applicants have projected as the annual radio revenue in Grande
Prairie.
2803
When we started our analysis at the time of this application, almost one
year ago, the Grande Prairie retail climate stood at about
$914 million. Recently, the
Financial Post updated those figures and today the projected retail sales for
2006 are at $1.2 billion. That's
$200 million more than the last prediction for fiscal
2007.
2804
We are not going to repeat what is already on the record. All of the previous applicants have shown
evidence that supports the viability of not one but likely two new FM stations
in the market. This view was
supported yesterday by OK Radio, an incumbent who has enjoyed the benefits of
this thriving market and who knows it well.
2805
MR. J. MANN: To begin with,
our proposal is for a Classic Rock FM station specifically designed to appeal to
a core audience between 35 and 44 years of age and, more broadly, adults 30‑49,
many of whom are now listening elsewhere to satisfy their hunger for the music
they grew up on.
2806
Even though the median age in Grande Prairie is 29.7 years old, this
group of respondents was satisfied that their music of choice, a more modern
selection, was being met.
2807
MR. P. MANN: The research
provided to Vista by Decima Research suggested Classic Rock would fill a major
void in the market. According to
the research, it simply says:
"...a format targeted at adults
between 35 and 44 years of age and, more broadly, adults 30 to 49, where the
largest void exists, and a mainstream format that will have the least impact on
any of the existing commercial stations."
(As read)
2808
Therefore, Vista will be able to monetize that opportunity by growing
overall market revenue as clearly the two existing formats leave a large
unserved void in that market. This
substantially unserved target audience is extremely valuable to the local
advertising community and therefore we are confident the revenue projections in
our application are realistic.
2809
MR. J. MANN: Vista's
research mandate specifically outlined two objectives: number one, to locate a format that
would be commercially viable and popular; number two, to locate a format that
while popular would have minimal impact on the incumbent commercial stations and
also serves the greatest unmet need in the market.
2810
In Classic Rock we have found a format that will primarily appeal to
adults between 35 and 44 years of age and, more broadly, adults 30 to 49, by
reintroducing many songs and artists which are not being aired locally in any
significant numbers.
2811
Classic Rock, 104.7, has been designed to speak to the baby boom
generation that is currently being underserved in Grande Prairie. The station will present a wide scope of
Classic Rock artists, including the Rolling Stones, David Bowie, Neil Young, Led
Zeppelin, Rush, Van Halen, the Eagles, Robbie Robertson and
Aerosmith.
2812
To fulfil Cancom commitments, we will not only revisit past Canadian acts
but we will also present newer Canadian artists who are compatible with the
overall sound of the station. Artists like Matt Mays and El Torpedo,
54‑40, Colin James, Jeremy Fisher, the Trews and Mr. Completely, which is a
Campbell River band, that our stations on Vancouver Island were the first to
play.
2813
Our view is that the insertion of more up‑to‑date Canadian acts will add
a variety and freshness to our format without breaching the overall premise of
Classic Rock 104.7. After all, the
key to this station is that it will be providing a much greater amount of 1960s,
'70s and '80s Classic Rock music than the existing stations currently do and in
doing so it will be focused specifically on serving adults between 35 and 44
years of age and, more broadly, adults 30 to 49.
2814
MR. HICKS: But Classic Rock
104.7 will do a lot more than satisfy the music needs and wants of Grande
Prairie. It will take back the
streets, a very clear Vista Group news policy now mandated in all of our small
market stations. By taking back the
streets I mean when it comes to knowing, respecting, understanding and
reflecting the new stories, issues and debates going on right in our very own
communities, in our own backyard.
2815
Vista has a very clear news philosophy in place. We handle news in a way that engages
local interest in terms of people's health, heart and wallet. We offer an almost blanket reflection of
our local communities. We make sure
our newscasts focus on the local, local and local and when that is not enough we
give them more local.
2816
This is such an important area for us in Classic Rock 104.7. It is quite a commitment to offer
extensive local hourly news programming seven days a week. I have listened to so‑called local radio
stations that claim they are in touch with community news but end up filling
newscasts with wires copy and audio from areas that are nowhere near their own
small markets and with very little relevance. Wires can quickly become a
crutch.
2817
Classic Rock 104.7 will deliver six hours of local newscasts per week, 12
newscasts per weekday, another 12 at the weekend, and we will have a target
local content quota of 80 per cent or better. That is precisely what we endeavour to
do every day in our current operations.
2818
Four out of every five stories in most newscasts there are local with
audio clips making our newscasts a mosaic of real local voices, and that's
before local sports stories.
2819
We are passionate about local news at Vista. Grande Prairie will get that passion
too. With our research indicating
the greatest need in the market is the more mature news‑needy and news‑aware age
bracket, we know that our attitude to saturating the airwaves with relevant
local news content will satisfy that market.
2820
Other than the scheduled news, we will also run structured spoken word
content along these lines: special 90‑second agri‑bus and energy reports which
will run twice per weekday, that's 30 minutes a week; and that's in
addition to weather updates in each cast and regular road reports, they
contribute another two hours of spoken word a week. Furthermore, there will be hourly
60‑second community service announcements, entertainment and community
events. That's seven days a week,
three times a day. That's almost
another one hour and 30 minutes of spoken word.
2821
All of these components add up to a total of over 10 hours of spoken word
a week.
2822
We will appeal to those currently not listening to the radio in Grande
Prairie or those listening less because their genuine local content needs are
not being met.
2823
When it comes to news we know and understand our place, our duty and on
what level we can genuinely offer something more and something new in a small
marketplace.
2824
MR. EDWARDS: Mr. Chairman
and Members of the Commission, we would like to update the Commission on Vista's
policy regarding Canadian talent development.
2825
Vista is prepared to make a direct cash commitment of $500,000 over a
seven‑year period or $71,000 a year in support of Canadian talent
development.
2826
At the time we filed our application we intended to direct our CTD
commitment in five initiatives: the
first being area, the second to Starmaker Fund, the third to a music and schools
program for Grande Prairie, the fourth to FACTOR, and the last to a talent
search initiative called Front and Centre.
This last initiative was to be managed by
Vista.
2827
We have reviewed the letter of intervention by CIRPA and we intend, with
your permission, to heed the requests of CIRPA to redirect the $87,000
originally aimed at our Front and Centre initiative to FACTOR. We agree with CIRPA that these programs
are well managed and well received and that there is no need to duplicate this
program.
2828
MR. P. MANN: Our new station
will employ, starting from the launch day of the Grande Prairie operation, 16
new full‑time employees and one part‑time employee, including on‑air announcers,
news, sports reporters, creative writers, salespeople, administrative and
promotional personnel.
2829
We are committed to being a local radio station and Vista's operating
philosophy of investing our money in small and medium markets across western
Canada is one that we maintain now and in the future.
2830
We are committed to hiring from the local community when possible and
endeavour to mirror within our company the demographics of the communities we
serve.
2831
Vista Radio is committed to creating a barrier‑free, respectful workplace
and corporate culture that offers equal opportunity and reflects the diversity
of the communities we serve.
2832
MS MICALLEF: Mr. Chairman
and Members of the Commission, let's quickly review the merits of our
application.
2833
We have provided evidence underlining the strengths and dramatic growth
of Grande Prairie and the need in this community for two or more
stations.
2834
We propose a music format that is commercially viable and which will add
diversity in the market.
2835
Our business plan is well thought out and we are well
capitalized.
2836
Our revenues are achievable and our costs are
reasonable.
2837
We will bring a new editorial voice to Grande Prairie with a commitment
to news that is presently unmatched in the market.
2838
We will fully meet the Canadian content requirements and are prepared to
allocate over $70,000 per year for a total of $500,000 over a seven‑year term to
support Canadian talent development.
2839
From day one, Vista will be committed to creating a workforce that
reflects the cultural diversity of Grande Prairie and the province as a
whole. Our mantra is
local.
2840
Paul, Jason, Bryan and I founded this company with a commitment to
operating in small and medium markets.
2841
Unlike many of our competitors, these small communities are not an
afterthought to us, they are our focus.
2842
Our stations stand on their own.
They are not mini versions of larger market stations. We do not have a bear and a little bear
station or a cool and a less cool station.
We strive to give each of the communities we serve the opportunity to
identify with a station that mirrors their community.
2843
This application will not only contribute significantly to the objectives
of the Broadcasting Act but it is truly a reflection of the commitment Vista
Radio is now bringing to all of its small market radio stations and the
communities we are licensed to serve.
2844
I wish to thank the Commission for this opportunity to explain our
proposal and we would welcome your questions at this time.
2845
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Ms Micallef.
2846
I think your introductory remarks and your application speak for
themselves so I will go immediately to my list of questions. Some may appear to you basic, but we
need your views for the record.
2847
I know that regarding the Front and Centre project that you have, you are
changing the initiative to go to FACTOR.
I have noticed that you have done the same thing also for your Fort
McMurray application.
2848
MS MICALLEF: Yes, we
have.
2849
THE CHAIRPERSON: We will
start by talking about your demographic.
You have been talking about reaching an audience of 35, 44 or even
extending it by five years in the two directions so covering 30 to 49. You are saying it is going to be evenly
balanced between men and women.
2850
Directionally, we know that Classic Rock is more skewed toward males than
females. Could you explain to us
why you have decided to target your station equally between men and
women?
2851
MS MICALLEF: Certainly. I will ask Jason Mann to please address
that.
2852
MR. J. MANN: Thank you for
the question.
2853
Indeed, typically a Classic Rock station would, at the high end anyways,
be three portions to one portion male to female audience, but I think it's more
in the perspective. I think the
perspective was that the format would skew much closer 50/50, somewhere in the
neighbourhood of 55/45 or maybe depending on the actual market performance
60/40. Certainly, that is a
significant difference than 3:1 as well.
2854
The size of the whole in the marketplace speaks to repatriating
disenfranchised female listeners who we envision selecting our radio station if
it was the only radio station in the marketplace, and we have broadened our
playlist and made it a little bit softer than the typical Classic Rock
station.
2855
Those are sort of the key areas where we would see attracting that type
of an audience composition.
2856
THE CHAIRPERSON: You choose
to target your programming toward ‑‑ even if the research that Decima
conducted for you is saying that the format will be much more attractive to men
than to women?
2857
MR. J. MANN: This is
definitely an interesting discussion.
I will draw a little bit on my experience with Jet FM in Courtenay,
CFCP‑FM. Some of it comes to the
non‑music elements of the radio station, some of the stationality, what we do,
what we say on the air, what we do in the
community.
2858
For example, we did a wedding wish promotion where we gave a $50,000
wedding prize to a lucky couple and it was dynamic and it was very much female
skewed as far as appeal, so we saw a very high female
response.
2859
Additionally, and I don't know how much more you want me to speak on the
subject but as far as Classic Rock radio stations go you really don't have any
pure Classic Rock radio stations in Canada. The genesis of Classic Rock might be
said to be in the United States. In
Canada, due to Cancon and non‑hit and hit regulations you will have a variance
in the era and format composition of the Classic Rock
format.
2860
Whereas most Classic Rock stations in Canada tend to skew more modern
Alternative Rock as far as their current portions of their playlists, we would
tend to skew on the softer side of current selections, still guitar‑based,
guitar‑driven and considered Rock music by all means. You know, a Jeremy Fisher is going to
have a significant female appeal.
2861
THE CHAIRPERSON: Why do you
say that there is room for Classic Rock in Grande Prairie? Obviously, there are only two other
radio stations in the market, and you and many others have identified Classic
Rock as being the format of choice, but ‑‑
2862
MR. J. MANN: Certainly the
other applicants have corroborated our
research.
2863
Back in June‑July of last year Decima conducted the research, 400
respondents. The methodology
included an unaided recall as far as what format is missing in the marketplace
and the first format or the top format in that line of questioning was indeed
Classic Rock. Then Decima tested
four other formats, which also included Classic Rock and gave examples of the
type of music a pure Classic Rock format would attract, and it scored at the top
of the list as well as far as desire.
2864
Then, on the other side of the spectrum, what was available. They asked the residents of Grande
Prairie what was and wasn't available, and so low availability for Classic Rock,
the lowest availability, perceived availability of Classic Rock in the
marketplace, and the highest demand.
2865
So I think that is why you are seeing that many applications for Classic
Rock or variations thereof.
2866
In your submission you said that obviously Classic Rock is your format of
choice but the situation will change, and I'm quoting you from your
supplementary brief:
"The situation will change however
if an existing station begins to use the Classic Rock music format before a new
licence is granted. We have an
alternative." (As
read)
2867
Can you expand on which alternative you are talking about and what will
be the impact of that alternative on your business plan?
2868
MR. J. MANN: In our
supplementary brief we had indicated Classic Hits would be our alternate. We believe that the older age
demographics are underserved in the community to the point where there is
definitely room for two Gold‑based stations there.
2869
I think the invisible hand of the free market will move subtly and at
some point in time we will find, you know, our way if we were licensed there and
certainly believe that there is an economic model for radio stations in the
marketplace. There would be
definitely four distinct opportunities.
2870
As far as it impacting our business plan, I will
defer...
2871
MR. P. MANN: Frankly,
between the Classic Rock and Classic Hits options format, we didn't see having
to make one choice or the other if it came to that making an appreciable or
material difference on the overall business plan, and that was, candidly, before
we clearly got recognition that the market was about a third
larger.
2872
THE CHAIRPERSON: Yesterday
we heard one of the applicants presenting some kind of a hybrid situation where
it will be two thirds Classic Rock and Classic Hits. If we were to grant them a licence and
also to Vista another licence, what will you do?
2873
MR. J. MANN: Well, I think
that it has been stated that the first two beyond the air in the ‑‑ well,
the incumbents actually have the first advantage, and I would imagine they will
be actively repositioning their radio stations when things have been
announced.
2874
The first new radio station in the marketplace is going to definitely
have the advantage of choice. There
will be a mad rush for positioning and it would depend on where we were ‑‑
if we were licensed ‑‑ where we entered into the marketplace, either third
or fourth. We would definitely be
supportive of maintaining a distinction in formats.
2875
I'm sorry; did I answer your question?
2876
THE CHAIRPERSON: No, no, you
did, but obviously unless you have a third choice
to ‑‑
2877
MR. J. MANN: Oh, a third
choice.
2878
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Yes.
2879
MS MICALLEF: If I may, it
will come down to assessing the market at the time we were to launch. If Sun was to change its format to an
older format, they may very well leave room for a very younger format, so it may
be that we would fill that niche.
So at the time when we are licensed we would reassess the market and
determine what the need was.
2880
Assuming all things stay the same, our first choice would be Classic
Rock, our second choice would be Classic Hits with no change to our projections
or our business plan.
2881
Does that answer the question?
2882
THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, it
does, but obviously I'm looking at all the various
alternatives.
2883
Eventually, if you were to move towards a younger demographic then it
will probably have an impact on your business plan.
2884
MS MICALLEF: Possibly. But right now the younger demographic is
being satisfied by the current stations in the
marketplace.
2885
THE CHAIRPERSON: And I'm
talking business plans in the broader sense, not only regarding the financial
aspect of generating revenues and the expense side but also your plans for news
and verbal content. I would suspect
that if you target a very different group of listeners than the one you have
already planned, you may have to change totally your
tactic.
2886
MR. J. MANN: I think it
would depend ‑‑ and again going back to resurveying the marketplace to
better serve it.
2887
You know, OK/Rogers, currently their radio station is exhibiting traits
of an AC station in many respects as far as tuning and audience. If they position themselves closer to
AC, we would probably come in with the younger format. If they position themselves towards that
younger format then AC might be the way to go.
2888
THE CHAIRPERSON: I read in
your application for Fort McMurray that you have chosen Classic Hits as the
privileged format and Classic Rock as the secondary choice. In the case of Grande Prairie you went
along with Classic Rock first and Classic Hits second.
2889
Are there major demographic differences between Grande Prairie and Fort
McMurray so as to choose one format in one market and the other one in the other
market?
2890
MR. J. MANN: I wouldn't
suggest that there are significant demographic differences. They both have fairly young and
vibrant ‑‑ I don't have the median ages for both markets right here in
front of me, but I think the thing that was distinguished in the research was
the mainstream radio station in Fort McMurray is definitely more
Rock‑leaning in exhibiting listenership.
2891
THE CHAIRPERSON: The
incumbents are more Rock than they are in this market, obviously with one being
Country.
2892
What are the differences that you are making between your own application
for Classic Rock and the other applicant?
2893
MR. J. MANN: With the
information that I have been able to review as part of the other applications,
in the other applicants' applications, which is not conclusive but at any rate
from what I can tell it would seem that with OK/Rogers proposing a greater
amount of New Rock music their station will, typically based on the artist that
they have presented as samples, would be harder and newer. Sun Country and Crude looks as if the
majority of their music base would be older and harder and the newer portion of
their music base would be harder than our music from the newer
selections.
2894
I think Vista and Pattison are probably about equal as far as what you
would expect to hear the station sounding like. They might disagree with
that.
2895
Bear Creek seems to me to skew just a little bit softer yet because
of the introduction of Classic Hits into the format than say Vista and Pattison,
and Newcap even softer than that but still as old as being Classic Hits
applicants.
2896
I have a little bit of a grid.
I sort of placed it out. I
don't know ‑‑
2897
THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. I have been following you with your
grid.
2898
Have you made the grid available to the other applicants? They might want to comment at the time
of intervention on your grid.
2899
MS MICALLEF: We have
provided copies to the Secretary.
2900
THE CHAIRPERSON: Could you
make sure that a copy is made available in the record so that the other
applicants can look at the grid and make comments if they so
wish?
2901
THE SECRETARY: I have copies
and I will bring them to the examination room, so any applicants who wish a copy
can go directly to the examination room.
2902
MS MICALLEF: We waive our
copyright.
2903
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Oh,
they just waived their copyright.
Okay, Madam Secretary, we are now selling it to the other
applicants.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
2904
MS MICALLEF: Is that a
fundraiser?
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
2905
THE CHAIRPERSON: While we
are still on the demographic, I will ask immediately my question about you are
aiming at the 35‑44 but extended it to 30 to 49 but what will be the median age
of your listeners?
2906
MR. J. MANN:
Forty.
2907
THE CHAIRPERSON: Forty. And it will be largely 55/45
male.
2908
Okay. Now we will move to
news.
2909
In your application you have stated that you were to offer approximately
72 weekly newscasts including continuous surveillance, entertainment and
cultural programming, as well as two business‑related programs focusing on the
oil and gas and the agricultural industry.
To accomplish these offerings you propose to hire three full‑time
equivalent journalists.
2910
I know that you have provided us with a list of personnel and obviously,
yes, there are still three journalists on your list. What will be the function of these
journalists and how will they gather their information? Will they be the same people who will do
some of the features that you are planning including those who are
music‑related?
2911
MR. HICKS: Yes. Mr. Chair, when it comes to the news
team, you are quite right, we have three full‑timers there. We also have in the budget an allocation
that would allow for some part‑time work as
well.
2912
Just the logistics of day‑to‑day covering of a local news environment,
you are going to get contacts and people who are going to be out there with the
energy sector, the agri‑bus sector, so I would, as a news director of the
station, I would advise my new news director to assign beats, so of your three
full‑timers one of them would logically have a beat that would probably include
the agri‑bus in that general eight‑hour day. I would like to assign my second news
person as the person who would have the energy beat. They are in constant contact every day
with people associated with those key news sectors, so they would be
responsible ‑‑ the news team would be responsible for putting together
those specialist features in addition to their local news
gathering.
2913
THE CHAIRPERSON: You also
have planned for features that are directed towards entertainment in the music
area. Will those features be done
by your news people or will they be done by the programming
people?
2914
MR. HICKS: I will defer that
to Jason.
2915
MR. J. MANN: By
programming.
2916
THE CHAIRPERSON: By the
programming people.
2917
Can you please elaborate on the synergies between your proposed station
and the other Vista holdings that you have in British
Columbia?
2918
I don't think you have any stations yet in Alberta.
2919
MR. EDWARDS: Not
yet.
2920
THE CHAIRPERSON: Not
yet.
2921
MR. EDWARDS: The only real
synergies, as I answered the same question in Calgary, was that our synergies
will be in all the back office equipment, traffic, accounting, et cetera. We intend to run the stations as local
identities. In virtually every
market we are in we run a different format and there is ‑‑ unless it was a
purchased network, for example, on the island, we don't see a lot of synergies
between the stations.
2922
Obviously, if there is news, that's going to have an impact in one market
and the other we would share them but, you know, if the question is are we going
to network or are we going to simulcast, the answer is no.
2923
THE CHAIRPERSON: But back
office, when you are talking back office ‑‑ I noticed that you have here
"receptionist/traffic" on your list.
Didn't you mention that you were considering traffic to be centralized
somewhere?
2924
MR. EDWARDS: Yes. In fact, your memory is excellent. We did bring that up and since we have
seen you last we have implemented it.
Of course this application is a year old and we have found a traffic
system that is mobile anywhere in North America so there is no longer a need for
a local traffic person per se.
2925
THE CHAIRPERSON: And are
there other back office support that are either centralized
or ‑‑
2926
MR. EDWARDS: Yes. Accounting and billing would be the
same.
2927
THE CHAIRPERSON: Will be the
same. And because of the software
that you are using it could be done from anywhere ‑‑
2928
MR. EDWARDS:
Anywhere.
2929
THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ but I would suspect it's done out of
Duncan.
2930
MR. EDWARDS: Actually,
Courtenay.
2931
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Courtenay.
2932
You mentioned in your oral presentation that 100 per cent of your
programming will be local. Which
portion will be local live and which portion will be
voice‑tracked?
2933
MR. EDWARDS: We intend to be
live throughout the broadcast day.
I guess the only caveat to that would be that there has already been some
discussion about the cost of living and the availability of qualified staff, so
obviously in a temporary shortness we might find ourselves having to revert to
voice‑tracking but our intent is to be live.
2934
THE CHAIRPERSON: To that
effect, you are planning to have five full‑time programming staff. Have you an idea of the schedule that
they are going to have, because five full‑time, we are talking here 126 hours a
week? For five people that
is ‑‑ some of them will have much longer shifts than
others.
2935
MR. EDWARDS: Four‑hour
shifts per weekday and then on weekends we would have an extended 6:00 to noon
or 8:00 to two o'clock shift, so we wouldn't be full on the broadcast day on
weekends.
2936
THE CHAIRPERSON: Regarding
spoken word, you would be forced to change formats. Have you any idea what kind of spoken
word you will be contemplating?
Will you be changing some of the features and virtually the energy and
the ‑‑ obviously if you are catering more to the younger generation, are
they as interested in the agricultural and the energy features that you have
contemplated?
2937
MR. EDWARDS: Between the two
stated preferred formats, Classic Rock and Classic Hits, it would stay the
same. If there was a third vastly
different format, the amount of spoken word wouldn't change but I think we would
probably want to look and see what the interests were of those that would end up
ultimately being at the core of our audience.
2938
THE CHAIRPERSON: We will
move now towards CTD.
2939
You have agreed to, and you have listed, your CTD commitments in
your ‑‑ the annual contribution that you have ‑‑ well, you are aiming
to contribute $500,000 over a seven‑year period, which is over $71,000 per year,
which includes a $3,000 contribution towards the CAB plan, while the Grande
Prairie market has been considered a small market by the CAB definition, but you
have committed to spend $3,000 into CTD in accordance with the CAB
plan.
2940
Will you accept that as a condition of licence?
2941
MR. EDWARDS:
Absolutely.
2942
THE CHAIRPERSON: Are you
suggesting to the Commission that we, throughout the review of radio, consider
that, from now on, Grande Prairie is a medium‑sized market rather than a
small‑sized market, a small market?
2943
MR. EDWARDS: No. I don't think we are suggesting that at
all.
2944
THE CHAIRPERSON: It's only a
commitment of yours.
2945
MR. EDWARDS: That's
correct.
2946
THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Fine.
2947
The $87,000 for the Grande Prairie ‑‑ you have already answered
that. Yes. You're switching that fund to
FACTOR.
2948
You have indicated that you will be devoting a minimum of $68,428, that's
the remaining amount other than the $3,000 I have just referred to, here in
direct CTD. For the purpose of
clarity in considering that most undertakings do not implement in the first year
of their licence term, will you agree to a condition of licence directing the
minimum of $68,428 to CTD over seven consecutive years, broadcast years, rather
than the first licence term?
2949
MR. EDWARDS: Yes, over seven
years. Yes.
2950
THE CHAIRPERSON: Seven
consecutive years.
2951
MR. EDWARDS: Seven
consecutive years.
2952
THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Fine.
2953
Are you planning any synergies between your ‑‑ if you were to be
granted a licence for Grande Prairie and another one for Fort McMurray, do you
contemplate any synergies between the two?
2954
MR. HICKS: I'll go
ahead.
2955
From the news perspective, it's probable from a regional news
perspective, possible shared angles, possible assistance in both the Grande
Prairie and Fort McMurray newsrooms to use each other's stories as a lead to
bounce onto other stories and other angles. There is a potential for story‑sharing
synergies between those two newsrooms.
2956
But again, when I direct newsrooms to look at each other's work, it's
generally not a signal for them to smash and grab and steal. It's generally, as any decent newsroom
knows gathering decent local news, you look at each other's work as a helping
hand to bounce you into the next angle, to look for genuine local angles
pertinent to your community.
2957
So not necessarily story sharing but, you know, process and idea sharing
from the news perspective.
2958
THE CHAIRPERSON: And for
other verbal components...?
2959
MR. J. MANN: I think really
the only one that might have some shared application would be the energy
report. A very similar economic
base in that respect. Not so much
agriculture in Fort McMurray. I
think that that beat might be a shared beat, but that's pretty small in the
scope of things.
2960
THE CHAIRPERSON: We
discussed earlier about synergies, but I'm looking at your employee grid and I
don't see any technical in your list of employees.
2961
MR. P. MANN: I could perhaps
answer that one.
2962
There is what is equivalent to roughly a half position under "Technical"
shown in our budget. It is indeed a
shared position, as we would see it, across two or more markets. So while we have it budgeted within a
line in the technical department, we didn't count that in the 16.5. We in fact left it out because it would
be a body who may or may not live in Grande Prairie or Fort McMurray. It could be one or the other but sharing
between a couple of those markets.
2963
MR. J. MANN: And in the
event that there was only one licence granted to Vista in the process, if we
were so lucky, it would be just a part‑time position.
2964
MR. P. MANN: That's why we
didn't show it within the actual personnel positions
chart.
2965
THE CHAIRPERSON: I have a
few questions regarding your corporate matters and particularly your
shareholder's agreement.
2966
As you probably are aware, as there has been an exchange of
correspondence, the Commission is still waiting for the final copy concerning
all the signatures of the shareholder's agreement. Could you confirm that there were no
amendments to the shareholder's agreement per se? We have a copy but we don't have the
copy with the full signatures.
Would you confirm that the copy that we have is the shareholder's
agreement, the formal shareholder's agreement?
2967
MS MICALLEF: Yes, I
will. There have been no changes to
the former that was sent in to the Commission and we have today in fact filed
all of the signature pages with the Commission.
2968
THE CHAIRPERSON: So we did
receive them. Did you file them
here or you ‑‑
2969
MS MICALLEF: We filed them
in Ottawa.
2970
THE CHAIRPERSON: In Ottawa,
through the usual ePass system.
2971
MS MICALLEF:
Correct.
2972
THE CHAIRPERSON: Lucky you,
you know how it works.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
2973
THE CHAIRPERSON: I have
never discovered it myself. I was
appointed early enough not to have to learn it.
2974
You did mention that the market could sustain ‑‑ you started by one,
then you said two stations. Could
we discuss a bit further about the various alternate scenarios if we were to
grant you a licence and one of the incumbents a licence? What impact would it have on your view
and on your business plan, if any?
2975
MR. EDWARDS: You said one
incumbent.
2976
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Yes.
2977
MR. EDWARDS: Not the
nightmare that was on the table ‑‑
2978
THE CHAIRPERSON: No, no, I
will come ‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
2979
THE CHAIRPERSON: If you want
to comment because that is going to be my secondary
question.
2980
MR. EDWARDS: Okay. Well, let's comment reverse order
then.
2981
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Okay.
2982
MR. EDWARDS: I think others
have spoken to it. I think if you
were going to licence a third commercial station and give each of the incumbents
another FM, that certainly would put that new player at a significant
disadvantage.
2983
If you were to licence one of the incumbents and a new player, needless
to say the disadvantage wouldn't be quite as significant.
2984
If you are going to then ask me in a perfect world what should you
do ‑‑ am I anticipating?
2985
THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Oh,
yes.
2986
MR. EDWARDS: We certainly
would support two new entrants to the marketplace.
2987
THE CHAIRPERSON: Obviously,
if the Commission was to be generous and gave three licences, is there a
specific one you think would be complementary to the proposal that you have and
would not hurt your business plan?
2988
MR. EDWARDS: Well, if you
are talking about giving three licences and one of them is a special leave, then
that wouldn't ‑‑ we don't see that that would be a
problem.
2989
THE CHAIRPERSON: When OK
Radio appeared they said that they were aware that the Peace River radio station
has applied for a re‑broad that will partially cover the market of Grande
Prairie. Do you think it will have
an impact on the ‑‑ if the Commission was to approve that re‑broad, do you
think it will have a significant impact on your plan if we were, say, to grant
two licences, one specialty and that re‑broad? That makes four new players around the
table.
2990
MR. P. MANN: I will respond
to that.
2991
I think given that we now clearly understand that we are in a $9 million,
probably a $10 million market by the time these licences happen, if there
are multiple licences, it is quite a different premise from where all of the
business plans, by and large, have been built for this
event.
2992
Given that we are in that range today and we already know that there are
dollars going to the Peace River Group as well as the Standard Group on the
British Columbia side, I don't think on nine‑plus million dollars today is the
reality that the additional share for a re‑broad who may pick up some additional
peripheral audience is going to make a significant impact on a market this
size.
2993
THE CHAIRPERSON: We all have
the same question, the technical question.
2994
If we were to grant you the licence but not at the frequency that you
have applied for, do you think you would be able to find another one
if ‑‑
2995
MR. EDWARDS:
Absolutely.
2996
THE CHAIRPERSON: And if no,
why not?
Absolutely.
2997
MR. EDWARDS:
Absolutely.
2998
THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, we
have already heard the answer.
2999
MR. EDWARDS: And as everyone
else has said, in this market there are plenty of
frequencies.
3000
THE CHAIRPERSON: I know that
some of my colleagues have questions.
I will start with Mrs. Cram.
3001
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you, Mr. Chair. I will be
brief.
3002
I think it was you, Mr. Edwards, who said that your intent is to go 100
per cent live unless there are, if I can call them, force majeure problems. Would you agree to a COL to that
effect?
3003
MR. EDWARDS: Yes. And one more caveat to that would be as
long as we are not competing with two new FMs owned by the incumbents, because
that would seriously change the business plan.
3004
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
3005
Now numbers. Spoken word or
spoken word matrix, if I can take you to that. It is really the non‑scheduled spoken
word at the very bottom that I couldn't understand. What I couldn't understand was the last
sentence: six hours 45 minutes
non‑scheduled spoken word plus nine hours 45 minutes.
3006
Where did that nine hours 45 minutes come from?
3007
MR. J. MANN: That would be a
typographical error.
3008
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Oh.
3009
MR. J. MANN:
Sorry.
3010
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. So what is that number
supposed to be?
3011
MR. J. MANN: Instead of 9.45
it would be 10.24.
3012
COMMISSIONER CRAM: All
right. Okay.
3013
MR. J. MANN: My
apologies.
3014
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Perfect. Thank you very
much.
3015
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
3016
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr.
Langford.
3017
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
3018
I just want to bring you back to where the Chairman left off, not on the
technical but on the kind of different scenarios of
licensing.
3019
To go to your more preferred apocalyptic scenario, which would be new
players, all new players that we are licensing, let's say two commercial,
perhaps the gospel, but everyone seems to agree that they can work around that,
the specialty licence, so just taking the two new players, so assume, for
example, that it's you and one of the others, any one of the others, Bear Claw
maybe or something, it doesn't really matter, any one of the new ones, everybody
is going to try to launch first.
Everyone seems to think that's the way to go, stake out their
territory.
3020
I understand that part, but where I wouldn't mind having your insight is
on ‑‑ were you here for the Pattison, by the way, the Pattison
presentation?
3021
MR. EDWARDS: We listened to
it.
3022
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Good.
3023
On their kind of apocalyptic scenario that it would be Dodge City ‑‑
I'm paraphrasing, they were much more eloquent than that ‑‑ that the blood
would run in the streets, that the rate cards would be slashed, that everyone
would lose.
3024
What would happen, in your view, if the two incumbents, from a business
point of view, from a dollar point of view, the two incumbents who have been
there a long time, well rooted in the community, yourself and one of the other
active, you know, vibrant players were licensed? How do you see it working out? Is it going to be as bleak as the
Pattison group suggests?
3025
MR. EDWARDS: I don't believe
it would be.
3026
First of all, the market is significantly larger than we all thought
going in, which suggests there is a very high rate or suggests that there is a
very, very low inventory level available.
3027
Our experience has been, in each of the markets that we have gone into,
the market rate has increased by not less than 20 per cent to 25 per cent on a
per spot basis since we entered the marketplace. We believe in good programming and good
programming will command a respectful rate, and creating a bloodbath in a
marketplace doesn't help anyone.
3028
The only concern I would have is as this hearing goes on there is more
and more licences being granted so I hope we are going to run off
soon ‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3029
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
That's democracy. I mean
once we open the door, or someone opens it, we don't shut it until everyone who
wants to be heard comes through, which from your perspective is great as long as
it's only you, but as the crowds grow it gets like something out of
Virgil.
3030
So what does happen though?
You are telling me you don't cut the prices, but still your business plan
is not exactly as planned. I take
your point that it's a bigger market and a bigger pot, but still you have to
spend a lot of money and you have to scrap ‑‑ if things go badly where do
you find your savings? You know,
you have to stay afloat. Do you cut
news, do you cut live, go to voice‑tracking? Where are the logical places to
cut?
3031
MR. EDWARDS: Well, the first
logical place to cut on the expense side is we would probably end up with a
little more voice‑tracking than we would like. That would traditionally be the evening
hours which have typically a low tune‑in.
3032
The one area we would not cut is spoken word because, once again, one of
the reasons that we have been able to command an increase in the markets that we
are in, some are small and some are a little larger, is because in those markets
we have increases spoken word and increased the commitment to local content, not
just reading a newscast locally but the actual content. The marketplace has responded very well
to that. When that happens
listenership goes up and repatriation goes up and dollars go
up.
3033
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
maybe we shouldn't hit you with that COL that my colleague Commissioner Cram
suggested on live programming until we work out in our own minds what else we
are going to do to you.
3034
MR. EDWARDS: That's why it's
kind of a loaded question.
3035
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: It
is, yes.
3036
Okay. Well, we will take
that under consideration. That's
why we are here.
3037
You said you wouldn't cut news and that brings me to a question for
either your news guru or yourself, or however you want to do it. It is my last
question.
3038
Are you familiar with the research that was commissioned by OK Radio,
which essentially assessed the marketplace, as all research does, assess their
place in the marketplace as, in a sense, superior in numbers to the other
incumbent but with a little less loyalty?
Do you remember that research?
I'm going by memory, but as I did question them yesterday I think my
memory is pretty accurate. That
research established, for what it is worth, that they were doing a crackerjack
job on news and they were kind of the place to go for
news.
3039
Does that inhibit your plan at all?
I mean, you are not going into kind of an empty field, everybody is
starting on a level playing field.
From what I'm hearing from you you are tying a big part of your vision of
how to proceed here on news and spoken word and already in the field is a tried
and true success, if their research is accurate.
3040
Does that change your views now that you have had access to this
file?
3041
MR. J. MANN: No. The older, mature audience that we
intend to attract to the format, to the station, are typically in fact indexed
higher as far as requirements or demand or need or desire for news and spoken
word content and so if we deviated from that plan I don't think we would be
fulfilling the mandate that our audience would expect or
want.
3042
MR. EDWARDS: And if I could
just add one quick point to that?
3043
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Absolutely.
3044
MR. EDWARDS: If we went back
to, say, circa 1970, the CBC National News service was the only game in town and
up starts CTV who overtook them in that 10‑year period.
3045
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
have never forgiven them personally.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3046
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
said it was my last question, but in response to your response, sir ‑‑
sorry, I have forgotten your name.
3047
MR. J. MANN:
Jason.
3048
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Jason.
3049
Jason, Mr. Mann, can I pull out your grid and show it to you? It would be very
helpful.
3050
Did you prepare this grid?
3051
MR. J. MANN: I
did.
3052
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Could
you place on this grid for us the two incumbents, Country and Sun
FM?
3053
MR. J. MANN:
Sure.
3054
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: To
the best of your ability. I think
we might as well have the total picture, if that's all right with my
colleagues.
3055
MR. J. MANN: We didn't spend
a lot of time focusing on what the era content of the Country station was
because it was such a distinct format, but it would certainly be at the softer
end and most likely newer. So in
that bottom right‑hand quadrant, somewhere, say, two‑thirds down and one‑third
over, over "CJXX" probably ‑‑
3056
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Does
this grid cover age at all?
3057
MR. J. MANN: No. This is about sort of a music
comparison.
3058
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: A
music comparison. So we are down
here kind of all alone down here.
There is no one else in this grid.
Is that the one, the bottom right?
3059
MR. J. MANN: Sorry? Can you repeat the
question?
3060
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Are
they down all alone in this bottom right ‑‑
3061
MR. J. MANN: Not both,
no. Just the Country station would
be somewhere in that bottom right quadrant, somewhere mid bottom right
quadrant.
3062
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3063
MR. J. MANN: And as far as
the incumbent, it would be on the right side but above the older‑newer axis,
which is along the softer to harder.
It would be considered much harder.
Somewhere in the lower third.
3064
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Not
as high as OK/Rogers. Under
them.
3065
MR. J. MANN:
Correct.
3066
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3067
MR. J. MANN: It's
general.
3068
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And
how would you describe their sound?
3069
MR. J. MANN: Well, it's a
Hot AC with Rock music and Pop music and AC music. It's, as they have described themselves,
fairly broad and ‑‑
3070
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: It's
quite a smorgasbord, yes.
3071
MR. J. MANN:
Yes.
3072
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: But
when you are the only game in town ‑‑
3073
MR. J. MANN:
Absolutely.
3074
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ you have to offer a little
something.
3075
MR. J. MANN: I think they do
a great job.
3076
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. Thank you. That's helpful to
me.
3077
Those are all my questions, Mr. Chair.
3078
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
3079
Legal counsel.
3080
MS MURPHY: Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
3081
I would like to, just for the record, confirm a few numbers here with
respect to your CTD contribution.
3082
In your supplementary brief you had indicated that the annual
contributions to the Front and Centre initiative would be $36,428.60. Is that correct.
3083
MR. EDWARDS: That's
correct.
3084
MS MURPHY: You then
indicated that you would redirect this amount to FACTOR.
3085
MR. EDWARDS: That is
correct.
3086
MS MURPHY: At page 12 of
your oral presentation you confirm that you are going to redirect this amount
but the amount is written on page 12 as an amount of
$87,000.
3087
MR. EDWARDS: That's the
seven year total.
3088
MS MURPHY: It's the seven
year total.
3089
Thirty‑six thousand per year times seven is $255,000, so I'm not sure
what this amount refers to.
‑‑‑ Pause
3090
MR. EDWARDS: I'm sorry;
that's a typo. The chart that we
gave is correct.
3091
MS MURPHY: Great. Thank you very
much.
3092
MR. EDWARDS: Thank
you.
3093
MS MURPHY: Those are my
questions.
3094
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
3095
Mr. Edwards or Ms Micallef, I am giving you an opportunity to tell us why
Vista should be granted a licence to serve Grande
Prairie.
3096
MS MICALLEF: Thank
you.
3097
Mr. Chairman and Members of the Commission, there are 10 applications
before you for a licence to serve Grande Prairie. Of the 10 applications, eight are for a
licence to operate a mainstream commercial undertaking. Of these eight, three already serve
Grande Prairie and the surrounding area.
Those three are the Jim Pattison Group with CJXX, OK Radio or Rogers with
CFGP, and Standard Radio with CJDC, CKNL and CHRX.
3098
Of the five remaining applications, one already significantly serves
Alberta. Newcap operates 31
licences in roughly 20 locations in Alberta.
3099
Of the four remaining applicants ‑‑ all are independent ‑‑
Vista is the best capitalized.
Vista has the most realistic first year pre‑operating cost projections
and the greatest ability to withstand any surprises or financial setbacks in
getting the station on the air or in supporting it as revenues
accumulate.
3100
Vista has the highest CTD commitment.
3101
Vista's business plan has released cannibalization of business from the
incumbents.
3102
Vista has a proven track record of offering virtually 100 per cent
relevant and local news.
3103
Vista has clearly made a long‑term commitment to this
industry.
3104
Vista is the only applicant who is offering a pure Classic Rock format of
the group of the four independents.
This completely satisfies one of the identified voids in this
market.
3105
We consider it a privilege to operate radio in this country and we take
the guidance and requirements of the Commission very seriously. We have presented a business plan which
serves the community, has the least disruption to the incumbent operations while
we are still offering a distinct sound, diversity of voices and a purely local
focus.
3106
Please allow us the opportunity to serve this
community.
3107
Thank you.
3108
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Ms Micallef, thank you, gentlemen.
3109
We will take a 10‑minute break.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1517 /
Suspension à 1517
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1533 / Reprise
à 1533
3110
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order
please.
Ms Secretary.
3111
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
3112
Before we proceed to the next application I just have a few announcements
to make.
3113
The panel intends to proceed to Phase II before the end of the
evening. Therefore, if there are
any applicants in the room that do not intend to proceed to Phase II, which is
intervening on the other competing applications, I would please ask that you
come and let me know so that we know how many applicants will in fact appear
during Phase II.
3114
For the record, the two applicants OK Radio and the numbered company
1097282 Alberta have filed an additional document as a result of commitments
they have taken before the panel.
The documents will be placed on their application file and will be
available in the examination room.
3115
We are now ready to proceed to Item No. 9 on the agenda which is an
application by Crude Communications for a licence to operate a commercial
English language low power FM radio programming undertaking in Grande
Prairie.
3116
The new station would operate on frequency 95.5 MHz (channel 238LP) with
an effective radiated power of 50 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna height
of 52.6 metres).
3117
Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Gordon Gauvin who will introduce
his colleagues.
3118
You will then have 20 minutes for your
presentation.
3119
Mr. Gauvin.
PRESENTATION /
PRÉSENTATION
3120
MR. GAUVIN: Mr. Chairman,
Members of the Commission, my name is Gordon Gauvin. It is my pleasure to present to you an
application by Crude Communications for a low power FM broadcast licence for
Grande Prairie, Alberta.
3121
Assisting me with our presentation today is Debbie Price. Debbie is a certified management
accountant and has been retained by Crude Communications to be our corporate
accountant. Debbie has lived most
of her life in the Grande Prairie area and with her family is active in many
parts of the Grande Prairie community.
Debbie will outline a bit about the Grande Prairie economy, the forecast
for its future and how it relates to our
application.
3122
Next to Debbie is Donna Pringle.
Donna is a 50 per cent partner in Crude Communications. She has been a successful business
person over the years and has experienced owning and managing companies in both
Alberta and British Columbia. Donna
moved to Grande Prairie in 2000, is an active member of the community. Donna will be outlining our
community‑based initiatives to the Commission.
3123
Next to Donna is Brenda Mercer.
Brenda has worked in the radio and band promotion business since
1990. She has worked in radio
locations including Victoria and Prince George, B.C., as well as Oxford and
London, England. Brenda brings with
her experience of launching new radio stations as she was on the ground when
CKXM was launched in Victoria in 1996.
Brenda's knowledge and experience is a welcome addition to the Crude
Communications programming department.
Brenda will be discussing our commitment to Canadian talent development,
our Indie‑Genius program as well as our overall
programming.
3124
Next to Brenda is Walter Wenzl.
Walter is the Operations Manager at PeaceCom Limited, a Grande
Prairie‑based company that specializes in wireless communications. Walter is also our Web designer. Walter will be making a presentation
regarding the relationship of our proposed signal to the existing ones within
the Peace Country, as well as an outline of some of our plans for our Web site,
gprockradio.com.
3125
Also in attendance today is Chad Zima. Chad is with the law firm Miller
Thomson. They have made
presentations to the CRTC on several occasions. Chad is our legal counsel for this
application.
3126
As I mentioned, my name is Gord Gauvin and I'm the other 50 per cent
owner of Crude Communications.
3127
I have worked in the radio industry in both Prince George and Kelowna,
B.C. I have extensive management
experience and I currently run the Grande Prairie office for a national
insurance company.
3128
I have probably lived in Grande Prairie since 2000. I was on the host committee for the 2006
Alberta Cup. I'm also the current
president of the South Peace Ball Association and I am a member of the
organizing committee for the Summer Slam Music Festival, which this year is
celebrating its seventh year as Grande Prairie's biggest Rock music
festival.
3129
Our name initially was designed to reflect the oil and gas industry that
has propelled the Grande Prairie economy to where it is today. Crude Communications is a hopeful new
entrant in the Canadian broadcasting industry and are proud to say that ours was
the first application that was received by the CRTC for a new radio station for
Grande Prairie.
3130
We are an independent company.
Our application accurately reflects the values and goals of our company
and the city that we plan to broadcast to.
3131
Our ownership is comprised of just Donna Pringle and myself. Our management and programming team
includes broadcast professionals who are currently in the broadcast industry in
other markets. They combine for
decades of experience.
3132
As our key people are utilized, it is the goal of the current ownership
to reward commitment and contribution to these key employees with shares in our
company.
3133
It is hoped that by the end of the seven‑year term of our initial licence
our ownership would be diverse and be 49 per cent owned by the people that have
made us successful.
3134
To keep it local, we have made it mandatory in our corporate bylaws that
all shareholders must live in Grande Prairie and be employed by Crude
Communications. This is truly a
unique opportunity for quality broadcasters that non‑publicly traded companies
rarely make. This opportunity will
help give experienced broadcasters an opportunity to make a good living in a
career that they love in a smaller market while helping new people in the
industry with invaluable training and experience.
3135
Our station will have a community feel to it while still reaching goals
set with Canadian content, diversity of news voices and Canadian talent
development.
3136
The fact that our application is for a low power FM licence helps to
differentiate us from the applications before you and the broadcasters that are
currently on the air. Our goal is
to reach Grande Prairie in a way that no one else does.
3137
Other applications before the Commission are trying to broadcast to areas
very well served by current broadcasters.
These areas have had little to no growth over the last several
years.
3138
We propose to broadcast to just the immediate Grande Prairie area. In fact, we are the only application
whose tower is located within the city of Grande Prairie pictured here at the
top of 214 Place.
3139
Grande Prairie is not a very large city as it only covers 61 square
kilometres. A low power FM is
currently the best way to reach our city and if current growth rates continue it
will be sufficient for at least the next 15
years.
3140
Crude Communications' new radio station will be branded Rock
95.5.
3141
I will now ask Debbie Price to discuss the Grande Prairie economy, what
is forecast for its future and how it relates to our
application.
3142
MS PRICE: Grande Prairie is
considered the economic hub of the Peace Country area of northwest Alberta and
northeast British Columbia.
3143
Although the Grande Prairie population has grown to an estimated 47,000,
our trading area population has remained about 250,000. Visitors travel from as far away as Fort
Nelson and the Northwest Territories to do their shopping in Grande
Prairie. Growth in these other
areas is relatively stagnant as Grande Prairie continues to be the main area
with significant growth.
3144
Of the municipalities in our trading area, their growth from 1996 to
2001, according to Stats Canada are:
Peace River, ‑4.5; Grimshaw, ‑8.5; Fairview, ‑5;
Valleyview, ‑2.6; Dawson Creek, ‑3.3; Fort St. John, +6.7; Fort
Nelson, ‑4.8.
3145
Meanwhile, Grande Prairie has enjoyed incredible growth of nearly 18 per
cent over the same time period.
Since 2001, according to Grande Prairies' municipal census, the
population has grown by yet another 20 per cent. A slow down is nowhere in
sight.
3146
Since Crude Communications submitted their application in 2004, the
population in Grande Prairie has grown by more than 10 per cent, which I am sure
you would agree is astonishing over just two years.
3147
The forecast for the city of Grande Prairie is for continued growth for
at least the next five years averaging at about 5 per cent per year. This would put the Grande Prairie
population at about 57,000 in five short years.
3148
Money Sense Magazine ranked Grande Prairie as the fourth best place to
live in Canada, primarily due to our economic factors. All of this business has created a very
busy construction industry.
Projects, both public and private, are abound in Grande Prairie. Big projects in the work include a
recently announced $265 million hospital, new RCMP headquarters, expansion of
Grande Prairie Regional College, expansion of Evergreen Park Recreational
Facility, the opening of a new NATE campus, plus over 1,000 new homes built
per year.
3149
If we could we would build more but the economy's growth is limited by
the lack of workers that are available in our area. Obviously, by the number of applications
you have received for a new broadcaster in the area, more people than us believe
in the future of Grande Prairie.
3150
The Crude Communications application is a financially responsible
one. The business, through its
shareholders, has the resources to start without any debt. Although the sales forecasts in our
Appendix 4B are conservative, they still manage to show a slight profit after
the first year. The Crude
Communications application has managed to strike a balance between community
commitments while still being financially successful.
3151
MS MERCER: Our application
has a unique Grande Prairie feel to it.
Being a resident of the community gives me a perspective that no one else
can have. On a daily basis, we are
involved in our community and our application reflects this. There are four community initiatives
that we are very proud of that I believe add to the quality of our application
and the community we live in.
3152
The first initiative is our commitment to local non‑profit community
service cultural and sporting groups.
These groups make up the fabric of Grande Prairie. They support all parts of our community
including the four designated groups.
The work that these groups do is important, whether it is a fundraiser, a
special event or the opportunity to inform the public about the great work that
they do.
3153
Budgets are tight so as a result right now many groups are having trouble
getting the word out. This was
evident in a survey that we conducted in April at the Prairie Mall. In the survey we asked residents if they
felt they were well aware of special events that occur in Grande Prairie. Of the 324 respondents 218, or 67 per
cent, said that they were not well informed about special and cultural
activities in our city.
3154
To assist these groups with promotion of their worthwhile activities,
Crude Communications will create our Community First feature. This segment, although considered part
of our spoken word programming, is an important part of our proposed
contribution to the community. Our
Community First feature is a 90‑second segment that will be a combination of
live and prerecorded messages which will feature these wonderful groups and what
they are doing for our community.
Many of the live features will be done live on location at the
events.
3155
The Community First feature will air once per hour every hour, 24‑hours
per day, seven days per week. The
value of this initiative is in excess of $175,000.
3156
Our second community initiative is a plan to broadcast the Grande Prairie
Storm hockey games. The Grande
Prairie Storm is our AJHL team and are great ambassadors for the city. The only way to hear a play‑by‑play of
the Storm currently is via the Internet which is hosted by the local
newspaper. None of the existing
radio stations in Grande Prairie are providing this service to local
residents. The Storm are very
interested in play‑by‑play as is evident from their letters of support that were
filed by their business manager Don Moon and the Grande Prairie Storm governor
Rick Nordstrom.
3157
Our survey in the Prairie Mall also showed considerable interest in more
support for the Storm with 44 per cent of respondents saying that they would
like to hear play‑by‑play coverage.
3158
Education is one of the largest employers in Grande Prairie and our next
initiative involves connecting our schools with the community around them. Our School Report is a half hour program
that will be produced by students at the local high schools and the Grande
Prairie regional college. This
weekly report will highlight what is happening in our schools and what is
topical to the youth at Grande Prairie.
The School Report will give students interested in broadcasting valuable
experience while also connecting our schools with the citizens of Grande
Prairie.
3159
We have received support for this initiative from schools in each of the
three districts in Grande Prairie as well as the Grande Prairie Regional College
Students Association.
3160
Our community advisory board is an important part of our application as
it will assist us in maintaining our focus on Grande Prairie. We have and will be inviting various
segments of the community to sit on our board which will give the station
direction towards programming, news, community support and employment
equity.
3161
Our community advisory board will include members of the four designated
groups and other important parts of Grande
Prairie.
3162
MS PRINGLE: The music scene
in Grande Prairie is alive and well, much as it is across Canada. The difficulty for Grande Prairie
musicians is getting exposure because currently there is no program dedicated
exclusively to independent artists.
That will change if Crude Communications is granted this
licence.
3163
The Indie‑Genius program is designed to highlight Grande Prairie, Albert
and Canadian artists, so a one‑hour program dedicated exclusively to artists
that are unsigned by any major record labels. Each week this hour long program will
play some of Canada's brightest new bands and also include interviews and
stories about what is new in Canadian music. With the Indie‑Genius program, artists
will now have a forum. Each week
the most popular song or artist will be featured with regular air play during
peak times. This is exposure that
musicians in Grande Prairie and throughout Canada need.
3164
The Canadian talent development initiative proposed by Crude
Communications is bigger than it has ever been in Grande Prairie. As our application outlines, we have
proposed $10,000 each year in direct cash expenditures, with an additional
$19,000 per year worth of airtime to promote Canadian
artists.
3165
We spoke with many local people who would be directly affected by our
proposal, and the response was outstanding. Our Canadian talent development
initiative is admittedly the smallest of the 10 applications before you. However, it is over four times more than
what is currently existing between the two existing radio stations
combined. The two stations together
are not providing this right now.
3166
As our programming and signal are designed to be strictly Grande
Prairie‑oriented, so is our Canadian talent development
initiative.
3167
When given the choice of just Classic Rock or a blend of new and Classic
Rock, participants in our survey responded very strongly to the latter. Canada currently produces some of the
best Rock music in the world.
3168
Our commitment to 40 per cent Cancon means that Canadian Rock will have a
home at 95.5.
3169
Our news will be primarily local in nature. We will feature more prominently those
provincial, national and international stories that affect Grande
Prairie.
3170
Issues in Grande Prairie are different than the rest of the Peace Country
and only Crude Communications' application can feature this properly and
consistently. We plan to start with
two people in the newsroom and expand by the start of the hockey season to
reflect the increased workload from adding Grande Prairie Storm
games.
3171
Being 100 per cent locally owned and operated means that Crude
Communications will bring a diversity of news voices to the
market.
3172
MR. WENZL: Although the
application by Crude Communications is for a low power FM licence, through the
miracle of modern technology we will actually have the capability to reach the
entire world.
3173
Through our Web site, gprockradio.com, we will broadcast all of our
programming. This will give us the
opportunity to do some cross‑promotion as well as keeping our loyal listeners
apprised of what is happening in Grande Prairie while they are away from
home.
3174
Pod‑casting is another technical opportunity for listeners. With pod‑casting we will have certain
programs available in their entirety for listeners to download from our Web site
such as our Indie‑Genius program, local School Report, as well as highlights
from the Grande Prairie Storm broadcasts.
3175
Besides looking after the Web site for Crude Communications, I am also
the Operations Manager at Peacecom Limited. Peacecom Limited is a communications
company that provides wireless Internet and telecommunications services and
products to rural businesses including oilfield services and individuals. We provide this through the largest
series of towers and antennas in the Peace Country. We deal with frequencies, their
strengths and coverages, on a daily basis.
3176
As you can see from this map that I have prepared, Grande Prairie is
located in the Peace Country. It is
in close relation to both Dawson Creek and Peace River.
3177
Now adding the tower locations from the existing broadcasters in these
areas, you can see their proximity to each other. The signals from the FM stations in
Peace River and Dawson Creek look after their own markets quite well and come
right near the edge of the Grande Prairie market. The AM stations in each of these markets
reach Grande Prairie quite easily.
3178
Conversely, the locations of the current Grande Prairie signals actually
just reach both Dawson Creek and the Peace River markets.
3179
Usually, it is the practice to approve new radio station licences in
areas where the population is growing.
In the Peace Country the smaller communities, according to Stats Can, are
actually decreasing in size. With
this in mind, the smaller communities are very well serviced by existing
broadcasters.
3180
The solution is to find an application that will serve the area that is
growing while not creating undue competition for the broadcasters in the area
where the population is on a negative trend.
3181
The application by Crude Communications is the only application before
you that fits this criteria. Our
signal will actually complement the existing signals from Dawson Creek and Peace
River and puts our new station in the most competitive part of the trading area,
Grande Prairie.
3182
MR. ZIMA: Competition
against existing broadcasters is an important consideration. For applications that will encroach into
the Dawson Creek market, we are reminded of the comments by Mr. Don Shafer
of Standard Radio to the Commission regarding the threat of increased
competition in the B.C. Peace area.
Mr. Shafer in his comments recommended that the Commission deny a recent
application that encroached into the areas served by three standard stations as
he was concerned about an undue negative impact. However, as evidenced by our
application, we will not have an undue negative impact on either the Dawson
Creek or Peace River areas.
3183
In the CRTC Public Notice 2002‑61, the Commission has outlined its policy
for licensing low power radio undertakings. In its objectives the Commission states
that it considers that low power radio undertakings make a contribution of the
goals as set out in the Canadian Broadcasting Act and may attract new entrants
into the Canadian Broadcasting system.
3184
Both of these objectives have been reached with our
application.
3185
It should also be noted that there has been more acceptance of LPFMs in
the last little while. For example,
CKFU has been on the air for nearly three years now and has been a very
successful broadcaster in Fort St. John.
Newcap has also recently purchased an LPFM in Thunder Bay. With their 37 watt signal they reach the
entire city of Thunder Bay, population 150,000, with their Magic 99.9
station.
3186
I thought I would also quote from the CRTC Public Notice 2001‑129 in
which the CRTC has stated that LPFMs should do the following three things: number one, they should contribute
additional diverse voices to the market; they should present programming that
complements existing licences in a market; and, they should fulfil a
demonstrated community need.
3187
Our application does all three things.
3188
Firstly, as a locally owned and operated company we have no choice but to
add to the diversity of voices to the market. Our diversity is also evident in the
content of our programming.
3189
Secondly, much of the programming on the Crude station, including the
Storm broadcasts, School Report and Community First segment are not being done
by the current broadcasters, so we are, in effect, complementing their
programming.
3190
Thirdly, the 245 letters of support, which represents 0.5 per cent of the
total Grande Prairie population more than demonstrates the need local residents
feel they have for a new radio station in Grande Prairie and that the Crude
Communications application should be the licence that is
awarded.
3191
It should also be noted as part of the survey that was conducted in the
Prairie Mall in April, we asked individuals if they felt Grande Prairie deserved
its own radio station that it did not have to share with Peace River or Dawson
Creek; 90.74 of the respondents liked the idea of Grande Prairie having its own
radio station that focused on Grande Prairie
issues.
3192
In closing, I would also remind the Commission that the Crude
Communications application represents a good use of the spectrum. According to Industry Canada guidelines,
only an LPFM or Class A licence is all that will fit within 95.5 in Grande
Prairie.
3193
MR. GAUVIN: Thank you very
much for your time today.
3194
I would appreciate if the Commission has any questions to please direct
them through me.
3195
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Gauvin.
3196
I will ask Commissioner Langford to ask the first
question.
3197
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
3198
Welcome to the marathon of hope.
3199
I don't know what all that pounding is in the other room, but the person
who cleverly locked Gary Myles in the broom cupboard might want to let him
out. I think he has suffered
enough.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3200
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
don't see him in the audience. I
can only assumed someone has pulled a stunt.
3201
I want to begin by looking at the make‑up of what's before us. I take your point on ownership that you
plan to divest, I assume with the careful guidance of your counsel, of certain
percentages, still keeping control.
I think that is for the future and we can set that aside. You wouldn't be the first to do
that.
3202
I think the Ivanoff Group does something like that, by rewarding
employees with shares and stuff.
That's a precedent perhaps you can look at.
3203
I would like to look at what is kind of going to be before us should you
be licensed on launch day, put it that way, or, you know, two or three months
into your licence, so I can get a better idea of it.
3204
I guess what I am trying to figure out here, and if it is in ‑‑ if I
have missed anything ‑‑ this is a very, very large set of binders
here ‑‑ if I miss anything I apologize. It may be in one of your written
documents. I thought I went over
them carefully, but what I want to do is get some of the basics down in my own
mind.
3205
One of the places where I don't feel I have a good understanding, despite
all of your very, very clear submissions in other areas, is the sense of a
workforce.
3206
Once this station is up and running, what will we be looking at in terms
of a workforce? Could you help me
through that?
3207
MR. GAUVIN: Certainly,
Commissioner Langford.
3208
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Is it
in one of your briefs, by the way?
3209
MR. GAUVIN: It is
actually. It was a deficiency
letter that was submitted to the Commission December of 2004, I think it
probably was.
3210
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And
I'm deficient as well. I
apologize.
3211
MR. GAUVIN: The other thing
too that should be pointed out is that from our initial application that was
submitted, once the open call for applications went out we made some alterations
and adjustments to our application as well.
3212
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So it
won't hurt to review it for me.
3213
MR. GAUVIN: No, not at
all.
3214
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Good. Thank
you.
3215
MR. GAUVIN: Our application,
the way its laid out right now, has a staff component of 12 full‑time people and
a couple of half people, that I know you like very much,
there.
3216
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: We
will call it 13 then. Shall we just
call it 13?
3217
MR. GAUVIN: Sure. Yes.
3218
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3219
MR. GAUVIN: Actually, let me
just open it up so I'm referring to the proper thing here.
3220
Did you want a breakdown as far as what the nine employees
are?
3221
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Yes,
if you don't mind. I would like
one.
3222
MR. GAUVIN: Certainly. Okay.
3223
As we are a large ‑‑ a small company, I should say, multi‑tasking is
essential in order to be as productive as possible and cost‑effective as
possible.
3224
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Mr.
Arpin empties all the blue boxes at the end of the day and Mr. Williams does the
vacuuming. It's the new way, you
know?
3225
MR. GAUVIN: That's exactly
right.
3226
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
dust and do windows.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3227
MR. GAUVIN: So our initial
component of 12 people consist of: a general manager; employee No. 2 is a
morning person that is also a ‑‑
3228
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Sorry. Give me No. 1. I was not ‑‑
3229
MR. GAUVIN: No. 1 is our
general manager.
3230
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
GM.
3231
MR. GAUVIN:
Yes.
3232
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3233
MR. GAUVIN: Would you like a
description, a jog description as well?
3234
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
No.
No.
3235
MR. GAUVIN: No. Okay.
3236
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
No. Not unless it's not
clear to me.
3237
MR. GAUVIN:
Okay.
3238
Employee No. 2 is a mornings/program director.
3239
Employee No. 3 will host the midday show and will also work with
community groups with some of our things with our Community First
feature.
3240
Our afternoon drive person will also be our music
director.
3241
We have two full‑time news people in the application and then the other
two part‑time people would also be news.
3242
We have a weekend announcer ‑‑
3243
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
that's three news.
3244
MR. GAUVIN: I suppose,
yes.
3245
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
mean using just person years that's three news.
3246
MR. GAUVIN:
Sure.
3247
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3248
MR. GAUVIN: We have two
weekend announcer positions which are going to work on the two ‑‑ there are
two shifts on Saturday and two shifts on Sunday. Those people will also trade‑off into a
copyrighting position as well, so one of them working Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday
and the other one working Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
3249
Last is our evenings, which will look after the 6:00A to midnight shift,
and he will also be looking after some production as well.
3250
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
One. One
person.
3251
MR. GAUVIN: One person for
that.
3252
The other three positions that we have, we have two full‑time sales
people and a full‑time reception/traffic
person.
3253
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3254
When you say "traffic", do you mean cars out on the road or monitoring
traffic in the station?
3255
MR. GAUVIN: Yes, monitoring
the ‑‑ scheduling the commercials and the ‑‑
3256
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Yes,
that type of traffic.
3257
MR. GAUVIN:
Yes.
3258
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right.
Okay.
3259
When I went to your financial data I had a little trouble trying to work
out under your expenses exactly how much went to wages. So now that I know we have 13 people,
and I go to your two different spreadsheets that I have, one which seems to set
out ‑‑
3260
MR. GAUVIN: That's one of
the items that was updated too, so hopefully you have the updated one
there.
3261
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I'm
not sure if I do or not, but I'm sure we can get
through ‑‑
3262
MR. GAUVIN: Under
"Programming" for wages it should say $244,000 in the top left‑hand
corner.
3263
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
have wages year one ‑‑ you see, I have wages under "Programming", then I
have wages under "Technical" and then wages under "Admin."
3264
MR. GAUVIN: Yes. We actually copied that off of the form
that the CRTC provides on the Web ‑‑
3265
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I beg
your pardon?
3266
MR. GAUVIN: We actually
copied that off the form the CRTC provides on their Web
site.
3267
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Maybe
you can just give me the total.
That will ‑‑
3268
MR. GAUVIN: The total
wages.
3269
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: This
is year one, I assume, is it?
3270
MR. GAUVIN: Yes. I would say we are about $460,000, give
or take a little bit there.
3271
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
$460,000.
3272
MR. GAUVIN: Yes, just doing
some quick math in my head.
3273
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: If I
recall a line in your supplementary brief, page 2, just above the chart, there
are a couple of lines just above the first chart which
say:
"Wages are even a bit better in the
Grande Prairie area than in...the average income for persons over the age of
15..." (As read)
3274
Actually, it's not the best written piece of English literature I have
ever seen, but I think the point you are trying to make is that wages are as
much as 15 per cent higher here than in the rest of
Canada.
3275
MR. GAUVIN: In Grande
Prairie it sort of depends on the market that you're ‑‑ the area that
you're working in, I guess, more than anything else. Minimum wage in Alberta is ‑‑
actually, I don't even know what it is.
I think it's around $7 or $8 an hour or something like
that.
3276
As you saw from our presentation, places like Tim Horton's are, you know,
having a tough time trying to find people and so they are paying, you know,
$15.50 an hour for people who are willing to work
evenings.
3277
Oilfield jobs are a plenty and, you know, a young kid 21 years old can be
making $100,000 a year working out on the rigs.
3278
The key thing in the radio broadcasting industry, from the history that I
have seen, is that a lot of people are working in it for the passion to be able
to further themselves in the industry and get that experience and do something
really well that way.
3279
If you break out our wages, the way that it is supposed to work between
the employees, we are sort of planning on having I would say two tiers of
employees to sort of describe it.
The top tier is the experienced broadcasters that we want to bring in
that have been working in the industry for 15 or 20 years and, you know, are
having a tough time buying a house or trying to get ahead or anything like that,
because the industry doesn't pay that well as a whole. So those people there, we want to really
be able to reward them. Profit
sharing incentives, benefits programs and the opportunity of the employee share
ownership program. Those
people ‑‑
3280
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: How
many of those would there be, do you figure, of the 13?
3281
MR. GAUVIN: I would
anticipate four of them.
3282
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Four.
3283
MR. GAUVIN:
Yes.
3284
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And
what kind of money annually would you have to pay to get one of the ‑‑ all
in, counting benefits and whatever?
3285
MR. GAUVIN: Well, we
budgeted for our morning program director in year one, and it goes up rather
aggressively over the next few years, the first year for him we are saying
$45,000 a year. Then on top of that
is the profit sharing incentive, which isn't in the calculation
on ‑‑
3286
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
four of them are in it at $45,000.
That's close to $200,000. So
that leaves sort of $280,000 for the other nine.
3287
MR. GAUVIN: Yes. Yes. That would be about right. Yes.
3288
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: That
is twenty ‑‑ I don't know, round it out.
3289
MR. GAUVIN: About
$30,000. It's $35,000 or something
like that.
3290
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
know Cram has the answer already.
3291
I don't think so. I mean if
you are at $280,000 and you divide it by 10 you have 28, if you divide it
by ‑‑ you might be over 30 but ‑‑
3292
MR. GAUVIN: Our profit
sharing, although it's not in the proposal, we will increase that because our
sales figures that are in our proposal or in our application are
low.
3293
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You
realized you moved all the way from Oxford in London for 30 grand. Right? I mean are you ready for
that?
3294
MS MERCER: I've worked in
the business a long time. I don't
know too many people making that much money that are working weekends, evenings,
things like that. I have been with
Rogers and I have been with OK. I
have been with all the boys.
3295
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
You're not OK.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3296
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3297
MR. GAUVIN: So the employee
share ownership program ‑‑
3298
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
don't know if I should touch that comment actually with a 10‑foot pole. It's just too late in the
afternoon. I'm not so sure I can
get my head around it.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3299
MR. GAUVIN: The employee
share ownership program is really the key behind the whole thing. That way, you know, the guy that has
been working and he is making 45 grand a year, all of a sudden he is able to
own, you know, 5 per cent or 10 per cent of the business, which means that
he is able to take a little piece out of the bottom line at the end of the
year. That's what is going to keep
him around.
3300
The other people are really junior people as far as the on‑air people and
they are going to learn from these learned veterans in the industry and they are
going to feel really good about what they are learning there and then move on to
other markets and to bigger places and earn more money that
way.
3301
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Sure. Good luck with
that. I mean it just ‑‑ I'm
just going by your own submission and what you showed us here today, $15 at Tim
Horton's. I'm not a business
person, I'm a regulator, you know, that most feared of animals, so maybe you can
make a business case with that, but it's good for us to at least know. I don't pretend to pass judgment on
these things, but I was having trouble tracking the wages lines through some of
this so I'm pleased to have the enlightenment.
3302
MR. GAUVIN: Like I had
mentioned, the wages as a whole, I find anyway, in the radio industry tend to be
relatively low. Although I know you
didn't ask the OK Radio Group, or I don't think you asked as I had missed part
of their presentation, but I'm sure if you were to ask them as to what they are
paying, say, their creative people and things like that, the wages would be
substantially lower than probably what people at Tim Horton's are
making.
3303
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Really.
3304
MR. GAUVIN:
Yes.
3305
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: How
do they eat? Not at Tim Horton's, I
guess.
3306
MR. GAUVIN: Oh, you know, I
actually ‑‑ that comes back to what we were saying in our presentation for
our news program. We are saying
that there are issues in Grande Prairie that are completely different than the
rest of the Peace Country.
3307
I was speaking the other day with a lady, I wish I could remember her
name, but she was with the homeless society in Grande Prairie. I'm talking to her and she says I help
the homeless try to find a place to live, and when I think of the homeless I
think of that rubby that's in the park and he is, you know, begging for money or
anything like that. In Grande
Prairie the definition of a homeless person is somebody that can only afford
$800 a month in rent. So if that's
all you have is $800 to go towards your rent each month, chances are you are
going to be homeless. Well, you
can't afford to live in a motel because they are charging $2,700 a month for
that. You are probably going to be
living in a trailer in a trailer park, like a pull behind trailer, like a travel
trailer or something like that
3308
Grande Prairie, it's bursting at the seams right now because the economy
is overtaking what everybody is able to do to keep up.
3309
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You
are kind of making this difficult for yourself actually. If you are paying people say around
$30,000, other than the stars who are getting forty‑five, how do they live? I mean, where do they go to get an
apartment? I mean you can talk
about passion and, you know, the smell of the greasepaint, the roar of the crowd
and all that sort of thing, but where do they go? How do they
live?
3310
MR. GAUVIN: That's an
excellent question. I guess that's
one of the advantages of being a local application is that the people that are
involved in this application live in the city, they know people. You know, we have lines on ‑‑ you
know, I have friends that have rental properties and so when something comes
available it's ‑‑ when you know people you have that system, you have that
support system within the community.
That makes it a lot easier to be able to look after your staff as opposed
to transferring somebody out from Toronto when the head office is in Toronto and
they are like, well, I don't know, just find a place.
3311
When you live there and you have a vested interest in the operation you
can work that much harder to make it happen.
3312
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
hope it works for you.
Okay.
3313
A couple of other things while we are looking at expenses. I noticed an interest line in one of the
expense charts that you prepared.
As you say, it may have been superseded by something, but the interest
line is zero. Is this completely
cash‑funded, this operation?
3314
MR. GAUVIN: That's
correct.
3315
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. Well, good for
you. It didn't work for Conrad
Black, but you never know.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3316
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: What
about rent or mortgage? Are you
planning to rent premises or are you planning to buy premises? I couldn't find rent in one of the
charts but did find it in another at $61,250 a year. Is that number still
current?
3317
MR. GAUVIN: No. That's actually the old number. The new number is now
$87,500.
3318
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You
should have signed that lease last week, right, I mean it just went up? Okay, $87,500.
3319
MR. GAUVIN: Yes,
$87,500. We have tentatively
secured space with the understanding of course that it's up to you if we are
actually going to be able to rent it.
3320
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
You've got that right.
3321
What about the tower rental.
You showed us that keen building with the tower on it. Do you have to pay for that as well
or is that some friend or ‑‑
3322
MR. GAUVIN: Actually, I
believe it is a separate line on here.
Let me just look.
3323
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I see
it up here: Xmitter plant rent,
$3,000, year one.
3324
MR. GAUVIN: Yes, that's
it. Yes, that is
it.
3325
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: That
number is still current.
3326
MR. GAUVIN: That $3,000,
year one, that's correct.
Yes.
3327
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right.
3328
MR. GAUVIN: That's the
agreement that we have signed with 214 Place, which is also the building that we
are going to be transmitting from.
It's the highest building in Grande Prairie. You can see the entire city from the
roof or the top floor of that building, or the third floor probably
too.
3329
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. Thank you very
much. I just wanted to clear those
up and since we were talking about size and workforce it seemed to be about the
right time.
3330
Revenues, since we are on money matters, yours are the lowest of all the
applicants and I wasn't sure why that would be, because some of them go quite
high. You are at $4.7 million over
seven years but some of them are as high as $20 million. You are both going to be playing music,
you are both going to be out flogging ads, why are yours so
low?
3331
MR. GAUVIN: Actually, there
are a couple of reasons for that.
3332
One of them is, I think, like I said, the sheet that you have there I
don't think is the updated one. Our
updated sales forecasts have it at $788,400 in the first year for national and
local revenue combined. This number
here actually, after all the other applications were released, I looked at mine
and said: why is it so much
different? The big thing is if you
look at the assumptions at the bottom of the page, we did our assumptions based
on a 12‑hour day and the other assumptions are based on an 18‑hour day, from
six, say, to midnight. So if you
were to adjust our programming to reflect the number of commercials sold over
that same 18‑hour period it would actually put our gross sales at about $1.1
million.
3333
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. I again am not ‑‑
I was going to say I'm not okay, but that really hardly has to be put on the
record probably, according to any president of a large telephone company in this
country anyway.
3334
What though are the possibilities for selling outside the big times, you
know, the drive times? I mean you
are talking about 18‑hours a day but surely it must be a little tougher to flog
the revenues getting up into the 17th and 18th
hour.
3335
MR. GAUVIN: I would say that
our estimates are conservative. We
estimate in the first year of selling 4.5 minutes per hour. Now, conversely, if you monitor CJXX or
CFGP in Grande Prairie right now, they are selling up to 12 and 13 minutes
sometimes in December, but generally speaking they are over 10 minutes of
commercial time per hour. Again,
when I say that our numbers are conservative, we said 4.5 minutes in the first
year. Also, bear in mind that we
did this ‑‑ you know, we put these numbers together two years ago as
well.
3336
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
that is average 4.5 minutes an hour.
3337
MR. GAUVIN: That's
correct.
3338
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Are
you still planning to sell at $12 per 30‑second segment?
3339
MR. GAUVIN: No. It's been adjusted to
$18.
3340
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
don't know how I have missed all this.
I apologize.
3341
MR. GAUVIN: That's
okay.
3342
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
must have gotten my hands on the wrong set of numbers and for that I really am
apologetic, but anyway we will get there.
3343
So you have adjusted up to $18 and yet some of your competitors are
talking about rates from $30 to $70 per 30‑second segment. Why would yours be ‑‑ even at $18
there is still ‑‑
3344
MR. GAUVIN: Yes, it is a bit
confusing I would say as well in that when I reviewed the other applications I
mean I saw some as low as ‑‑ I think I saw one that was as low as $17 for a
30‑second ‑‑ I'm sorry, mine are based on 30‑second commercials not 60s as
well.
3345
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: No, I
know that. I'm quoting 30‑second
alternatives from your competitors.
3346
MR. GAUVIN: Okay. You know, some of the applications I
think were as low as $17 and others were as high as $35 or $36 whereas CFGP and
CJXX right now ‑‑ I just had to buy some airtime a little while ago ‑‑
are $49 a commercial.
3347
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
again my question: why are you so
low?
3348
MR. GAUVIN: Yes. I guess it's fair to say that our
coverage area won't be as large as theirs and when we are competing against them
they are going to be able to say we offer you a regional approach. Our signal will go all the way out
towards Dawson Creek and Peace River and reach those municipalities and
everything in between. We are not
going to be able to say that and so they have a little bit of a competitive edge
on us for that reason alone. So for
30 per cent less listeners I guess the price needs to be a little bit
lower.
3349
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right. We will discuss that
sort of self‑inflicted handicap in a minute but ‑‑ sorry. Go ahead.
3350
MR. GAUVIN: Sorry. The other thing it does too is that
right now a big complaint that a lot of the Grande Prairie businesses has is
that radio is unaffordable. I mean
although they are sold out all the time and the radio stations that are existing
are in a great position, Joe Blow that owns the shoe shop down the street can't
afford to advertise because he is like, holy smokes, that's so much money. To buy, you know, 35 ads over a given
week is going to cost him, you know, $2,000 or something like that. For a small business that's not always
affordable, so this makes it a little bit more affordable for the small
businessman as well.
3351
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: But
why shoot for the small businessman?
You have heard here today and yesterday that even the most wildly
optimistic forecast of the pool of revenue out there waiting for you to dip your
dipper into it or your bucket is quite large and much higher than anyone even
anticipated. We got that from the
horse's mouth yesterday from the folks at OK and we certainly got quite a good
suggestion to the same effect from Pattison this afternoon. So if you have a scarce resource and
people are dying to use it, I can see undercutting slightly, you are the new kid
in town, you want to get established, but yours is a substantial undercutting,
why would you do it?
3352
MR. GAUVIN: I guess the $18
is also the average as well whereas the $40 ‑‑ well, I don't know. Maybe that's not a good
argument.
3353
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: No, I
don't think so. I can see you
having a scale. I mean maybe
selling at $18, you know, for something at midnight or something like that,
but ‑‑
3354
MR. GAUVIN: The rate card
that we did up we based on 70 per cent of our clients buying a year‑long
advertising package which would discount it to the $18 and that's an OES reach
plan which would go from 6:00A to midnight and be evenly distributed, so I based
everything on that.
3355
If somebody approaches us and they say, we just want to buy the morning
show for the next week, five spots per morning or whatever it happens to be,
they are going to be paying considerably more than the
$18.
3356
The other thing I would like to mention too is that although the
incumbents are saying how it's, you know, such a big pool of money and everybody
is doing so great, it is, I mean there is a lot of money there, but there is not
really that many businesses in Grande Prairie. We are a small town. There are only 46,000 people that live
there and if you go ‑‑ I did some research on the number of businesses that
there actually are in Grande Prairie, there are only 1,500 businesses in the
whole city and out of those probably only maybe 30 per cent of them actually do
advertising and promotion and what have you on radio. So that leaves you with 500 or so
businesses that are doing all the total advertising. It is not as big of a pool as it
is.
3357
The feature that's happening or what is happening in the economy is that
everybody is just so busy that they have more money to pour into it from the
individual businesses, but there are not that many more businesses as
well.
3358
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
That's kind of a defeatist attitude, isn't it?
3359
MR. GAUVIN: Well, it's a
fact in that ‑‑
3360
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I'd
think you would want to sort of be inspired by the challenge, but
anyway ‑‑
3361
MR. GAUVIN: Well, businesses
in Grande Prairie do very well and that it is not uncommon to find, you know,
say, the Ford dealer which is, you know, one of the top five Ford dealers in all
of Canada or the Chrysler dealer that does very well as
well.
3362
I was in a Future Shop the other day and we were talking
about ‑‑
3363
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
That's Gary Myles phoning.
Would you let him out, for goodness sake.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3364
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Sorry.
3365
MR. GAUVIN: I was in the
Future Shop store the other day inquiring about satellite radio in as far as
what kind of numbers they have sold and things like that. The Future Shop in Grande Prairie was
the top store in all of Canada for selling satellite radios. You know, like I said, we are just a
small town but it's just that there are high volumes running through. Because our trading area is so large
people do drive down from Fort Nelson and the Northwest Territories and a lot
further than any of the current signals from Grande Prairie reach. They drive to Grande Prairie to do their
shopping and spend their money.
3366
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Yet,
if I have this figure correctly, you are projecting a 16 per cent share in
year one rising to 22 per cent in year seven, is that correct,
listenership?
3367
MR. GAUVIN: That is
correct.
3368
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
God I got one of them right.
3369
MR. GAUVIN: There you
go.
3370
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: It
seems to me that if I had a 16 per cent share of a market like that or rising to
at 22 per cent share I wouldn't be undercutting myself too much. Again, I'm not trying to tell you how to
do your business but I'm getting a kind of conflicting message from you, you
know. The salaries are high, you
say, in your supplementary brief but you are paying low because they are doing
it for love. The joint is jumping,
you tell us on your Powerpoint here today, they are building and expanding and
they are paying more and everybody is doing well, but at the same time you are
saying, well, you know, the pool of advertisers isn't as big as it should
be. Now you are telling me I am
going to have anywhere between 16 per cent and 22 per cent of this market but
I'm going to be flogging my ‑‑ you know, I have a kind of pessimistic view
of how many minutes I can sell and what I can get for those
minutes.
3371
I must say I find the message sort of kind of dragging me one way and
then dragging me the other. I'm not
quite clear what your strategy is here.
3372
MR. GAUVIN: I guess the key
to the application is that we started out conservative. You know, you guess low and you hope
high and our numbers reflect that as far as our sales figures and everything
else.
3373
Honestly, I hope we double it and I hope we triple it and I hope that we
are able to pay our people that much more all the way across the
board.
3374
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: The
other conflicting message I get, I mean while we are on it, and I don't want to
be negative but it bothers me, it doesn't seem to be logical to me to be frank,
is this notion of running a commercial radio station but handicapping yourself
with a 50‑watt power signal because you want to be nice to the people in Peace
River and the surrounding area when at the same time the guys in Peace River are
applying for a re‑broad so they can eat your lunch. I mean I just don't get
it.
3375
MR. GAUVIN: I guess what I'm
saying is that Grande Prairie is a unique market and Peace River is a separate
market all together. They have
their own two radio stations that broadcast from there and Dawson Creek is its
own market as well. Broadcasters
that come out of Grande Prairie shouldn't be impeding in those markets because
those economies aren't doing as well as what Grande Prairie
is.
3376
The Grande Prairie economy is booming, it is busy, it's crazy, but in
Dawson Creek not so much. And Peace
River, the population hasn't hardly changed in the last 20 years
there.
3377
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: But
you are going to sort of kiss of 30 per cent of your possible market
voluntarily.
3378
MR. GAUVIN: Not necessarily,
because they all come to Grande Prairie to do their shopping so they're going to
pass through Grande Prairie and they can listen to us then
and ‑‑
3379
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: How
frustrating for them. Right? They come down into Grande Prairie to
work or to shop, they hear this nifty signal and as they drive out of town it
just fades away.
3380
MR. GAUVIN: And when they
get home they can tune on gprockradio.com and listen to it to their hearts
content.
3381
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Well,
it's a plan. Is it really maybe
just because it's a lot cheaper to start a 50‑watt station up than
100,000 watt?
3382
MR. GAUVIN: Oh, I would say
that is part of the consideration for sure. I mean we are looking to start this
enterprise with zero debt and honestly I don't have $2 million in my back pocket
to be able to do that. But this
enterprise is easy to do and so it makes sense.
3383
There are different types of businesses in the world. There are the Coscos of the world and
there is the small independent shoe store guy that's down the street. Both of them have a niche to fill and
both of them have to help people out and do their thing. It costs a lot more to start a Costco
than it does a little retailer down the street, but they are both equally
important.
3384
I think what we are able to contribute to Grande Prairie will be equally
important to what the larger Class C services can
do.
3385
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Because if I have the right figures again and you tell me you have filed
new ones, but I'm looking at your start‑up capital costs of $30,000 and I'm
comparing that, for example, to just one.
I picked OK Radio, I looked at them, and they are over $650,000. Is that really the reason, just simply
because you don't have the ‑‑ I mean that's not a crime. I'm not trying to
be ‑‑
3386
MR. GAUVIN: No, no. No, no.
3387
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I'm
just trying to understand. Is this
kind of philosophy, this little gideon philosophy about sharing and not
competing in certain areas and maybe they won't compete in yours, is that really
fundamentally a kind of byproduct or a rationalization of the fact that it's
simply too expensive for a new ‑‑ you know, a new company without deep,
deep pockets to go the full 100,000 watts?
Is that really the story here, which is fine? It's not a crime. I'm just trying to make sense of
this.
3388
MR. GAUVIN: It was a
consideration in the decision to do it that
way.
3389
We also looked at going to maybe a 3,000 watt or a 50,000 watt station as
well and see, well, what is that going to bring to the table? Is there any benefit to it? From a cost analysis needs it made a lot
more sense to be able to do things this way. It serves Grande Prairie in a very
effective way, the signal will sound wonderful, it will look after the
communities that are right next to us be it, you know, Sexsmith or Clairmont or
Wembley and what have you, and those are the areas that we are really concerned
about.
3390
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. That's great. I mean I have a better appreciation now
of where you are coming from.
3391
MR. GAUVIN: The other thing
I'm kind of wondering to, and maybe this will come up at the Fort McMurray
hearings I suppose but, you know, if you look at the Grande Prairie applications
everybody is applying, except for us, for a Class C, 100,000 watt station, which
is going to go to absolutely everywhere, all over the place. Yet, when you look at the
Fort McMurray applications, I think the maximum anybody is applying for is
20,000 watts. Obviously, it's for
the same reasons why we are doing our 50 watt station, because they are saying,
well, you just need 20,000 to serve Fort McMurray, you don't need any more than
that.
3392
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Mr.
Arpin is our resident expert on how many watts you need, but I think a lot of it
has to do with the geography. You
know, sometimes you can get more out of 50,000 than you can get out of 100,000
depending on where you are, but I'm not an engineer. I don't know what I am any more. I used to have a profession, but now I
think I'm just a cross‑examiner.
3393
I think I know where we are starting from now and I have a feeling for
this company and I'm glad for that, I understand it. Now, what I want to talk to you about a
little bit is just what you are going to do, or what people will hear in their
living rooms the day you go on or the week you go on.
3394
I want to look at music first, obviously, and then I want to look at
spoken word, but together, if I take them all together, how much
of your programming would you classify as local programming,
in other words, made by you locally, produced by you for
you?
3395
MR. GAUVIN: One hundred per
cent.
3396
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: One
hundred per cent.
Okay.
3397
What is the breakdown between ‑‑ boy, I'm losing it here, between
taped music, what is the ‑‑ voice‑casting, voice‑tracked, sorry. It's getting late in the day. When I start asking you my name you will
know it's time to just pull the plug ‑‑ between voice‑casting and live
programming?
3398
MR. GAUVIN: We will be
automated from midnight to 6:00 a.m.
3399
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right. Pretty
standard.
3400
MR. GAUVIN: Monday through
Friday. On the weekends we will be
live from 6:00A to 6:00P and then automated overnight.
3401
I'm leaning away from voice‑tracking. I think we will just go to just a
standard music bed playing. The
reason why, I had a conversation with Russ Beerling at CKFU in Fort St. John a
few months ago and we were talking about this, as to how you look after that
situation. He says listeners are
frustrated by voice‑tracking. If
there is a situation going on in the city and they want to phone somebody to
say, hey, there is an accident at such and such a street, or there is a fire
over here, or my dog is lost, voice‑tracking, they can't tell that there is not
an announcer on the air and so people will call and they go, gee, why does it
keep on ringing, why doesn't he ever answer? He has elected to go with just strictly
a music bed playing with IDs that run every few minutes. I think that's something that we would
probably lean towards too. That way
it doesn't create the illusion that we actually have somebody on the air when we
don't.
3402
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Couldn't you just put an answering machine on your phone and say: we don't have anybody on the air here,
call tomorrow.
3403
MR. GAUVIN: I guess if it's
an emergency that doesn't help somebody very much, I
guess.
3404
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: No,
but your music bed isn't going to help anybody, is it?
3405
MR. GAUVIN: Well, at least
it doesn't create the illusion that somebody is saying, hey, it's 2:33 in the
morning and this is what is going on.
That creates the illusion that there is actually somebody
there.
3406
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
That's your choice, but anyway I have my answer. Thank you very
much.
3407
With regard to music, the general question, you have indicated, as I
understand it, a 40 per cent CanCon level.
3408
MR. GAUVIN: That's
correct.
3409
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
assume you are willing to adhere to that as a condition of
licence.
3410
MR. GAUVIN: Oh, yes. Yes, we would. Yes.
3411
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Does
that include 40 per cent from Monday to Friday from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00
p.m.?
3412
MR. GAUVIN: Yes, it
does.
3413
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
you would agree to that general condition of licence that covered that as
well.
3414
MR. GAUVIN:
Definitely.
3415
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Now,
your format ‑‑ and, boy, we have beaten format to death in this room over
the last two days, so I'm not going to make it too difficult for you, but you
are talking about your definition of Classic Rock, and there have been enough
definitions of them here to fill a large basket ‑‑ you're saying 70 per
cent would be from the 70s, 80s and 90s and 30 per cent would be New
Rock.
3416
MR. GAUVIN: That's
correct.
3417
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Do
you try to sort of pull out of New Rock a certain type of New
Rock?
3418
MR. GAUVIN: The New Rock
will lean heavily towards Canadian content.
3419
Part of the problem that we had when we were first looking at the formats
with Classic Rock is that to hit the 40 per cent number that we wanted to hit is
a little bit harder to do if you play strictly Classic Rock, so by bringing in
some of the great Canadian new bands that are gracing our stages across this
country, by leaning heavily towards them it makes it a lot easier to hit that 40
per cent. So that would be
primarily where most of our new music would be coming
from.
3420
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: When
you say "new", are we going to get into some of the Indies, some of the names
that may not be sort of everyday names to some of your listeners to give them a
trial, to give them a voice?
3421
MR. GAUVIN: Well, that works
with our Indie‑Genius program, which is a feature every Friday night which runs
for an hour and where we feature a lot of the independent artists that aren't
signed and they get a little bit of exposure that way.
3422
We will have live interviews and we will talk about what's going on with
the different bands and if we can have them in the studio great, if it's a local
band or something like that. The
most popular band that the announcer really likes or people call in about or
whatever, there is going to be a band each week featured from that program that
is going to get regular air play during the next
week.
3423
It's not a mainstay of our programming as far as what type of music we
are going to have or what we are going to sound like, but it's a part of it and
it's an important part. So now all
of a sudden as opposed to just pushing all of that independent music into the
wee hours of the evening, you know, somebody is going to hear something at two
o'clock in the afternoon. It's just
one song and if he likes it, great, maybe he will go out and buy the CD and if
he doesn't, well, he is going to like the next song that's coming
up.
3424
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
it's just one spin you see coming out of that for a chosen
band?
3425
MR. GAUVIN: I would say two
per day for the entire week after that, after that program, and then each week
we will rotate through a different band depending as to who is popular out of
that program.
3426
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. That's
helpful.
3427
What is your target audience?
You know, we have talked a lot here about age and gender and median
age. You might as well take me
through it.
3428
MR. GAUVIN: (Off
microphone)
3429
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3430
MR. GAUVIN: If I did the
homework last night instead of watching the hockey game I
guess, so ‑‑
3431
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
That's probably wise.
3432
MR. GAUVIN: This is the age
distribution that we got from the city of Grande Prairie for the 2005 municipal
census. Now, this is the same
information I think that the OK Radio Group included in their
presentation.
3433
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right.
3434
MR. GAUVIN: It shows that 56
per cent of adults between the age of ‑‑ 50 per cent of adults in Grande
Prairie are between the ages of 20 and 44.
3435
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right. So is that your
target audience?
3436
MR. GAUVIN: That's our
target, yes, the mean age being about 32, right in the
middle.
3437
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3438
Generally speaking, very generally speaking, is there anything that much
different between your Classic Rock and all the other Classic Rock that we have
heard about in here? Are there any
ways you want to indicate that yours perhaps has a shading or a different
approach that would appeal to your target audience more than some of the other
Classic Rock we heard?
3439
MR. GAUVIN: No, not
really. Other than the Indie‑Genius
program that I mentioned, which brings out a few independent artists, other than
that there is not going to be a lot of difference. I mean, even the difference between
Classic Rock and Classic Hits is blurred at the best of
times.
3440
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Speaking of that program, I want to move on to spoken word and then try
to kind of differentiate, in programs like this Indie, you know how much you
consider to be spoken word and how much would be music and get that kind of
breakdown.
3441
Let's start with news, which is the obvious one.
3442
Am I right in thinking that you are committing to 3.5 hours per week of
local news running between 6:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m.? Have I got those figures
right?
3443
MR. GAUVIN: No, I don't
think so.
3444
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. Well, then help
me ‑‑
3445
MR. GAUVIN: Again, this
might have been an updated form or thing that we
submitted.
3446
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: It's
possible. Let's start
fresh.
3447
MR. GAUVIN: Here is what I
wrote down to copy it.
3448
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3449
MR. GAUVIN: We have 65
newscasts per week, which comprise ‑‑ and that's just news comprised of 200
minutes per week.
3450
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Which
is what, about 3.5 hours.
Right?
3451
MR. GAUVIN: Oh, I guess it
is. Okay. So maybe you are up‑to‑date
then.
3452
Our sports, weather and traffic is added on to that, which will be
approximately another 130 minutes a week.
3453
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
another two hours and 10 minutes.
Okay.
3454
MR. GAUVIN: For other spoken
word programming, our Community First feature, which is going to be featuring
local, non‑profit, cultural, sporting groups within Grande Prairie and a lot of
it will be done live as well, it's a 90‑second feature that runs once per hour,
24 hours a day, seven days a week, it equals between 6:00A and midnight, because
I'm assuming that's what you primarily want, 189 minutes per
week.
3455
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. So we have three hours
and nine minutes.
3456
MR. GAUVIN: We have a
weekend live program, which is going to be approximately 60 minutes of spoken
word per week over that four hour program.
3457
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3458
MR. GAUVIN: Then the weekly
School Report, which will be about 20 minutes worth of spoken word. I have a total of five hundred
and ‑‑
3459
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Sorry. The weekend school,
sorry? That's the School
Report.
Right?
3460
MR. GAUVIN: The School
Report, yes, would be about 20 minutes.
3461
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And
that's about 20 minutes of spoken word.
3462
MR. GAUVIN: That's
correct.
3463
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. Can you give me a total on
that?
3464
MR. GAUVIN: I have a total
of 599 minutes 6:00A to midnight.
3465
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: That
sounds like 10 hours to me, right, rounded up?
3466
MR. GAUVIN: Pretty darn
close.
3467
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3468
MR. GAUVIN: And then 63
minutes midnight to 6:00 a.m.
3469
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So an
hour say. Since we rounded you up,
we will round you down. an hour
midnight to 6:00 a.m.
3470
MR. GAUVIN: And you owe me
two minutes.
3471
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. Thank you very much
for that. That really
helps.
3472
The last couple of questions.
We talked about your business plan.
I had some reservations about it, but I'm also not a businessman so I
hope you don't take it as hugely critical, it's just a little understanding gap
on my part. How does it change
though if we licence more than you?
3473
I assume because you were the first person in here you must have assumed
you were building a business plan, and tell me if my assumptions are wrong, but
I assume you were building a business plan based on the notion that you would be
the third service into this market.
What if your the third but romping right along behind you are the fourth
and the fifth? How does that change
things, or the fourth if that makes you feel a little less
trepidation?
3474
MR. GAUVIN: A friend told me
that even turkeys can fly in a hurricane, so maybe you could licence all
10.
3475
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Don't
give us any ideas. We're from
Ottawa, you know.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3476
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: We
are a scary bunch of people, you know.
If you haven't figured that out you have been hiding somewhere farther
away than Grande Prairie.
3477
MR. GAUVIN: The way that I
basically envision it is that I anticipate that there are going to be two
licences handed out. The way that I
have sort of seen the segment break out as far as how people will look after it
is that, you know, we have a country station already and they do a wonderful
job. Sun FM has already said that
they are going to go more of, say, an Easy Listening sound or something like
that, so them or somebody else looks after that, and I really see us as having
sort of more of a station that leans towards New Rock and then a station that
leans more to a Classic Rock, so between those four stations I really see them
looking after most of the interests of the Grande
Prairie ‑‑
3478
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
you don't see it as a problem for you.
You can survive. Your
business plan will survive.
3479
MR. GAUVIN: Not a
problem.
3480
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
3481
MR. GAUVIN: As I mentioned,
we were very conservative in our numbers and so that makes it easier to do
better than that.
3482
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: We
have been asking the other applicants about whether they would be willing to
find another frequency, but it sounds like you have located a frequency that no
one else would want so that may be just a moot question.
3483
MR. GAUVIN: No, you are
exactly right. Nobody else could
use 95.5 because in Falher, Alberta some 120 kilometres away or whatever it is,
95.7 CKRP, and so that ‑‑ and they are a protected station so that
restricts what we are able to do here.
3484
The other thing that it does is that there has always been a lot of
complaint from organizations like, say, the CAB or Standard Radio and what have
you about ‑‑
3485
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Oh,
them, yes.
3486
MR. GAUVIN: Yes, those
guys ‑‑ about those LPFMs coming in through the back doors, they like to
say and then asking for power increases later on. Well, by being at 95.5, that's a huge
jump for us if we want to be able to later on down the road go in, as they say,
through the back door and ask for a power increase because we can't stay at
95.5. So it shows a commitment on
our part of being able to stay where we are at.
3487
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
appreciate that. Thank
you.
3488
Those are my questions, Mr. Chairman. My colleagues may have something
more.
3489
THE CHAIRPERSON: While we
are on the subject of wattage and frequency, obviously in choosing a low power
FM you choose a non‑protected frequency and if there was use made, say ‑‑
well, we will take the example of the fuller stations, if they wanted to
increase their power you could be asked to change frequency because they will
have a priority to get that power increase.
3490
Why have you chosen a non‑protected frequency? Why not a 100 watts? With even 51 watts you would be
protected.
3491
MR. GAUVIN: And we thought
about that. As part of our original
business plan we were saying, geez, a 300 watt station would be really nice in
here because then we can just sneak into Beaver Lodge, you know, because they
are really close and do a lot of their shopping in Grande Prairie. Most of it came down to the costs
associated with it in that all of a sudden ‑‑ the difference from 50 watts
and 51 watts, say, is that your signal goes about as far as this pen
further and all of a sudden it costs you another $25,000 for an engineering
brief to get done, and that just didn't seem like a smart business decision to
make, especially in a competitive process where really what is the difference if
we are a 50‑watt station competing against 100,000‑watt station versus a
300‑watt station competing against 100,000 watt station.
3492
We are essentially in the exact same boat. If you like what we have to say you will
grant us the licence and if you don't we are not going to get it either
way.
3493
THE CHAIRPERSON: My
colleague, Mrs. Cram, wants to ask you a question.
3494
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you. I had a few
questions.
3495
The first one was, Ms Mercer, I saw you trying to say something when my
colleague, Commissioner Langford, was talking about housing, the $800 or the
homeless people not being able to ‑‑
3496
MS MERCER: Right. A couple of things on
that.
3497
Some of the radio starting positions are never going to approach what Tim
Horton's is paying up there, but I mean historically forever people have
started ‑‑ I mean if you never worked in radio, man, overnights and started
at $600 and $800 a month, you know.
Even you can go back 10 years and 15 years and go, how do you afford to
live at that, but we did, you know.
We got roommates, we house sat.
You can make it happen if you want it to happen.
3498
The same people that want to be somebody in the radio industry are not
going to work at Tim Horton's or they are working there part time. There are ways to make it happen, and if
you want to be in radio bad enough you will find a way, and it's true. Anyone else would be saying the same
thing sitting here.
3499
COMMISSIONER CRAM: For your
information, lawyers when they are articling earn sometimes $650 a month or at
least did sometime in the ‑‑
3500
MS MERCER: That was the
career I was thinking if this didn't happen. I'm not going to do
that.
3501
THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ at least they did sometime in the
70s.
3502
THE CHAIRPERSON: And
still.
3503
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Ms Price,
you talked about that there will be a growth in population for the next five
years and I was discussing this with my colleagues at noon. Our understanding was that because of
the construction projects in Fort McMurray there is a finite ‑‑ there will
come a time when once the construction projects are ended that the growth will
not be as malthusian or exponential after the projects are
completed.
3504
Are you saying that after five years in Grande Prairie that you would
expect a slow down or a negative growth?
It's just that nobody has suggested anything after five
years.
3505
MS PRICE: I'm going to
direct the question to Gord.
3506
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Sure.
3507
MR. GAUVIN: The city of
Grande Prairie in their forecasts have said I think 5.4 per cent for the
next two years and 4.6 per cent after that, or what have you. Honestly, since we have moved here or
there, they have been consistently low.
They are forecasting after that for it to drop to about 3.5 per cent
for the remaining I think seven years after that and then to 2.5 after
that.
3508
You know, it's a crazy place and anybody that doesn't live there can't
understand it because it's ‑‑ like I said, when the Tim Horton's is paying
$15.50 an hour I'm sure the person that's working at Tim Horton's in Gatineau,
Quebec isn't very happy about that because they are probably making $7 an
hour. So when we talk in Grande
Prairie about what the economy is like and where it is going to go, everybody
can't see an end to it.
3509
That could be oilfield companies that are saying that we are spending
X‑millions of dollars in this area for the next five years at least, so that's
sort of where it's coming from as far as when we are seeing projected growth for
the next while.
3510
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Are you
aware of a term called the diversification index where I think it's Stats Canada
considers the number of industries and how highly diversified the economy is,
meaning it is more stable, because if one part of the industry falls another
part ‑‑ you know, if it's a small industry then of course it's ‑‑ or
one industry out of 20, then it won't have that much
effect.
3511
MR. GAUVIN: Yes. I am a little bit aware of that. I lived in Prince George when the
economy essentially collapsed there and a population of 75,000 people and the
thought around town is that it was a fairly diverse economy. The Japanese economy collapsed, the
softwood lumber agreement happened or didn't happen and, as a result of that, a
whole bunch of mills closed down, layoffs were abundant and the economy
essentially went into the toilet.
3512
Grande Prairie is working at diversification and kudos to our city
council because they are constantly looking at new opportunities and new
businesses to bring into the city, but right now we are an oil and gas
town. Agriculture contributes,
forestry contributes but all the money right now is oil and
gas.
3513
COMMISSIONER CRAM: I would
like you to address ‑‑ my final question is my
concern.
3514
Grande Prairie is booming; it is great. I have no idea what the value of a
licence would be in Grande Prairie, even a low power licence, but it has
happened to us in the past that we would licence somebody and immediately, or
maybe within two or three years, they would sell to an incumbent in the
market.
3515
I want to address my hypothetical fears that if we licensed you you would
be there for two or three years and then sell at a price which I think could be
fairly handsome. Could you address
that for me?
3516
MR. GAUVIN: I most certainly
could. That's part of where our
employee share ownership program comes into play. The people that are going to be ‑‑
these long‑term employees that are going to be helping us and growing with us
and what have you, they will own a little piece of the business, which makes it
that much harder to be able to turn around and sell and if at a future point,
say, you know, 10 or 15 years down the road Donna and myself aren't interested
in living in Grande Prairie any more, well, as part of the bylaws we are going
to have to divest ourselves to the rest of the employees as
well.
3517
We have said all along that we want to sell a little piece of the
business and we want to be able to pass it on to the employees that are still
working there, so that way we are still maintaining our local ownership, the
local focus, the local everything.
It's not our plan to sell this in any short period of time or to flip it
or anything like that or to look for another company that is interested in
looking after it, but we are looking at divesting ourselves of a good portion of
it but it's to the people that are working at the station and are focused on
making it better for the city of Grande
Prairie.
3518
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
3519
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mrs. Cram.
3520
Mr. Williams.
3521
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr.
Gauvin ‑‑ have I pronounced it correctly ‑‑ if we licence your station
plus one or two others, which stations would be the least disruptive to your
business plan?
3522
MR. GAUVIN: The least
disruptive. Right off the bat I
would say the Christian application.
3523
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Excluding them.
Sorry.
3524
MR. GAUVIN: Oh,
darned.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3525
MR. GAUVIN: I would say
least disruptive would be one of the larger chains excluding OK and Pattison
because I don't feel that they would have the opportunity to have local
ownership and local excitement about the community that the owners live in, so I
would say maybe Vista or Sun Country Cablevision maybe or something like
that.
3526
On the flip side of your question, if you are going to ask the one as to
which one would complement us or which one would you be able to do the best or
that we could work with the most, I really liked the application from
Bear Creek Broadcasting. I
have never actually even met Ken Truhn or Brian Nash, but after reading over it
I see that they have a commitment to the community with their endeavours for the
local arts groups and museums and things like that. I say, as them being local residents of
Grande Prairie and what it is that they have done for the city in the past, I
think that they would really complement as far as what we would be able to do
too, and between the two of us we could do a lot of work that isn't getting done
as well as it possibly could be right now.
3527
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank
you.
3528
In your experience working in both a boom environment and I guess a
recession environment that you described in the other community, do companies
need to advertise more or less in which economy? Like if an economy is humming in all
cylinders maybe they don't need to advertise. Maybe people are just coming in the
door.
3529
MR. GAUVIN: Well, I guess
that's putting my sales hat on and so when the economy is slow we say, well, you
better advertise so you can get some people through the door, and when business
is busy then we say, well, your competitor is even busy too so you better
advertise so you can get some of them away from them. I mean obviously if you look at the
economy, how busy it is and how much people are spending on advertising right
now, that's a clear indicator.
3530
I should have brought a daily Herald Tribune, which is the local
newspaper. The Friday newspaper is
literally this thick and it's from flyers and advertisements that are in that
paper.
3531
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If
your application was approved and you were licensed later this year, how long
from the date of licensing would it take your organization to get on the
air?
3532
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The
tough part is getting trades available to do the renovations to the place that
we have agreed to rent, that and then ordering everything in. We anticipate it will probably be about
four, four to five months to get up on the air.
3533
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four
to five months. I think an Edmonton
broadcaster operated out of a trailer, a construction trailer, for a little
while just a year ago.
Yes.
3534
MR. GAUVIN: Yes. That could be an option
too.
3535
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay. Thank you very
much.
3536
Those are my questions, Mr. Arpin.
3537
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Williams.
3538
Legal counsel.
3539
MS MURPHY: Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
3540
In reviewing the application and in looking for the revisions to the
projections, revenues and expenses, we have found an email that lists the
changes that you submitted on July 11, 2005. In that list of items or information that
were revised there is reference to a section 4.4 of the application form. Section 4 of the application form
actually deals with financial operations.
We have found also detailed revised expenses with the full breakdown, but
we cannot find the revised revenue and expense table that would consolidate this
information.
3541
We would like to ask you to verify the public exam filed. Staff can assist you in terms of
locating exactly what was filed when you did file these revisions. If information is missing, we were
wondering how quickly you could provide us those
tables.
3542
MR. GAUVIN: I have it right
here. Actually, I was kind of
wondering about that because I printed off from the public file off the Web site
the entire amended application, the old stuff, I mean there was so much
information there, and for some reason off of that only one of the two pages
printed out. It's all the expenses
but the revenue page, for some reason, didn't show up on what I printed
off. I just assumed I missed
the page when I printed it but I have the revised ones right here. I can give them to you right
away.
3543
MS MURPHY: Thank
you.
3544
MR. GAUVIN: Thank
you.
3545
MS MURPHY: Those are my
questions.
3546
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
counsel.
3547
Mr. Gauvin, here is the time to conclude. I am giving you two minutes to tell us
why you are the best applicant for a new licence in Grande
Prairie.
3548
MR. GAUVIN: Thank you very
much.
3549
I would like to thank the Commission very much for reviewing our
application today. I feel our
application responds to the needs of the community very effectively. We bring a diversity of news voices and,
as the Commission has stated, the licensing of too many stations in a market
could leave to are reduction of service.
Fortunately, our application only competes in the most competitive part
of the Peace Country.
3550
Thank you again very much for your time and I look forward to a speedy
decision as everybody else here does.
3551
Thank you.
3552
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
3553
We will take a small break.
Before we break up I want to remind all the applicants that have elected
not to appear for Phase II, the intervention period, to meet with the secretary
of the hearing so that we have a list of those who are looking to
appear.
3554
We will take a short break.
We will get back at five o'clock with the last
application.
3555
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
think we should note that Mr. Myles has been released and he is in the room with
the rest of us.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3556
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And
looking none the worse for his ordeal, I must say.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1655 /
Suspension à 1655
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1707 / Reprise
à 1707
3557
THE CHAIRPERSON: Please be
seated.
3558
Only for the purpose of Phase II, some of our questions did evolve
throughout the last two days so some of the applicants may not have been asked
any questions regarding the alternative scenarios that we have been discussing
with some of the applicants. I
would suggest that if you want to make comments on the scenarios and other
questions that could have been raised throughout the hearing for which you think
you have the specific answer to use Phase II of this proceeding to give us your
reply.
3559
I will now ask the secretary to introduce the final
applicant.
3560
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
3561
Item No. 10 on the agenda is the application by Standard Radio Inc. for a
licence to operate an English language FM commercial radio programming
undertaking in Grande Prairie. The
new stations would operate on frequency 101.9 MHz (channel 270C1) with an
effective radiated power of 100,000 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna
height of 256.6 metres).
3562
Appearing for the applicant is Marty Forbes who will introduce his
colleagues.
3563
You will then have 20 minutes for your presentation. Mr. Forbes.
PRESENTATION /
PRÉSENTATION
3564
MR. FORBES: Thank you,
kindly.
3565
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Members of the
Commission.
3566
My name is Marty Forbes. I
am the Vice‑President and General Manager of Standard's radio stations here in
Edmonton, Alberta.
3567
Before we begin I would like to introduce you to the members of our team
who have all played a key role in developing our application for a new FM in
Grande Prairie.
3568
To my right is Diane Morris, Manager of Finances for western Canada for
Standard Radio.
3569
To my left is Jane Morrissey, a long‑time veteran of our sales department
here in Edmonton.
3570
To Jane's left is Betty Selin, Regional News Director from Standard Radio
in Kelowna. Betty is the recent
winner of the Jack Webster Fellowship for News Excellence and she has won CAB
awards for her incredible coverage of the B.C. fires a few summers
ago.
3571
To Betty's left is Tammy Cole, Music Director for EZ Rock in Edmonton
here who will handle programming and music
questions.
3572
Behind me, Jeff Vidler from Solutions Research Group in Toronto. Jeff handled the research project for us
and is a former program director for Standard Radio.
3573
Beside Jeff is Don Lindsay who is a standard radio employee living in
Grande Prairie. Don sells our
northern British Columbia stations in the Grande Prairie market. He has been living in the area for many
years and will be part of our new operation in charge of our local advisory
board.
3574
Beside Don is Tim Murphy, another standard Edmonton employee who works
for Team 1260, our sports radio station.
Tim is of Métis descent and will be helping us coordinate our plans for
the aboriginal community.
3575
This is our Standard Radio team.
3576
We are pleased to be here today to apply for a Soft Adult Contemporary
radio station for Grande Prairie, Alberta.
This radio station would be utilizing the EZ Rock brand that we use in
Edmonton and Toronto and in some of Standard's other markets across the
country.
3577
As you have heard from the other applicants, Grande Prairie is a very
unique community. Isolated from the
rest of the province. A dynamic and
rapidly growing city with an economy that is sustained by agriculture, forestry
and of course Alberta's gas and oil industries.
3578
It's a community that is vibrant, active and a great place to raise a
family, a wonderful and most scenic area of our province. It's an area growing in an unprecedented
rate and all signs are that that growth will continue for some time to
come.
3579
Grande Prairie is a city that is almost totally self‑sufficient, an area
that is rich in quality of life with most of the major chain businesses and
services located in or near the city.
The connection to Edmonton lies via Hwy 43 where northern residents might
travel down to the highway to visit our famous West Edmonton Mall or to enjoy an
NHL or CFL game or to possibly attend a major concert in this
city.
3580
As you well know, Standard Radio is a family‑owned and operated business
and a leading Canadian broadcast company with a well known track record of
serving the community and the Canadian music industry. With 51 radio stations in seven
provinces in markets big and small, we truly understand the importance of local
radio service.
3581
Here in Edmonton I'm rather proud of what we have accomplished with our
Standard Radio stations, the Bear, EZ Rock and Team 1260. The Bear alone has donated $1.3 million
in cash from our Bear's Children's Fund to various needs in our city since our
inception more than 15 years ago.
3582
Also, EZ Rock and the Bear completed a huge first ever radiothon for the
Stollery Children's Hospital last fall raising a staggering $300,000 in just two
days.
3583
In preparing our application, Standard listened to the needs expressed by
many members of the Grande Prairie community for a radio station that will
provide a strong and consistent focus on the area. We have closely analyzed the Grande
Prairie economy and we commissioned research to accurately pinpoint what is
currently missing and desired by the listeners of this vibrant northern Alberta
community.
3584
Not only is there a desire for a new and unique music service in the
city, but our research also shows there is a large demand for news and
information that directly connects the city of Grande Prairie to the rest of the
province as well as to the rest of Canada.
3585
More on this in just a moment.
3586
To highlight our research findings Jeff Vidler of Solutions Research
Group.
3587
MR. VIDLER: Thanks,
Marty.
3588
The purpose of our study was to help Standard identify the most
appropriate format for their plans to serve the Grande Prairie radio
market. First, our study showed
that there was a viable business opportunity for two formats in Grande Prairie,
a Rock station and a Soft AC station.
Both would attract a significant audience with a very distinct
profile.
3589
The Rock station is skewed towards younger men while the Soft AC would
appeal largely to women aged 35 and over.
In fact, the research indicates that both formats could comfortably
coexist while still leaving a large slice of the market for the incumbent
stations. Of the two formats,
Standard chose the Soft AC option for the following
reasons:
3590
First, Soft AC would draw a large and saleable audience. Nearly two out of the three adults
surveyed suggested they would try the Soft AC format if it became available in
the market. Nearly 50 per cent said
it would be their first or second choice station while 22 per cent said it would
become their favourite station.
3591
Based on this favourite station response we would project that a Soft AC
format is the potential to gain a 22 per cent share of listening among 18‑plus
adults in Grande Prairie. Among 25
to 54 women, the potential share rises to 37 per cent.
3592
Second, a Soft AC station would add diversity to the market. Among those who indicated that a Soft AC
station would be their favourite, 79 per cent felt there was no local
station that consistently played the kind of music that suits their
tastes.
3593
This dissatisfaction is further reflected in the fact that many potential
core listeners to the format were tuning what were, at the time of the survey,
grey market satellite signals from the U.S. Fourteen per cent reported listening to
Sirius or XM in the week prior to being interviewed.
3594
Finally, Soft AC listeners would be particularly receptive. Standard plans to leverage their
regional and national news resources for the Grande Prairie radio station. Nearly six in 10 or 58 per cent of
the potential core listeners to the Soft AC format said they would like to
hear more news on the radio that would connect them to Alberta and Canada at
large.
3595
All in all, the research indicates that Standard's Soft AC format would
be viable at a degree of diversity that would strengthen the local radio market
and complement the concurrent addition of a Rock format to the
market.
3596
MR. MURPHY: Thank you,
Jeff.
3597
EZ Rock Grande Prairie will feature artists that generally don't get air
play in the area, featuring many of the Canadian artists that Standard Radio has
supported across the country for the past several years. This audio presentation speaks for
itself.
‑‑‑ Video presentation /
Présentation vidéo
3598
MR. FORBES: Now to describe
the music you will hear on EZ Rock Grande Prairie,
Tammy Cole.
3599
MS COLE: EZ Rock is one of
the most consistent and steadily growing formats in Canada. Because of the seamless blending of
long‑established artists with merging Canadian and international artists, EZ
Rock Edmonton and other EZ Rock stations are consistently strong performers. The
Soft AC format has very little duplication with current Grande Prairie
operations.
3600
The EZ Rock playlist includes establish artists like Elton John, Lionel
Ritchie and Fleetwood Mac. These
artists have limited or no air play in the Grande Prairie area at the
moment. As well, Canadian acts like
the Guess Who, Gordon Lightfoot, Bryan Adams, Celine Dion and Shania
Twain.
3601
The EZ Rock format is more adventurous than most traditional AC
stations. EZ Rock Edmonton was the
first AC station in Canada to add James Blunt's "You're Beautiful" into regular
rotation. As well, we were the very
first AC station to play Vernon, B.C. native Daniel Powter's megahit "Bad
Day". Two very good moves on our
part.
3602
EZ Rock is the perfect venue to showcase and establish emerging Canadian
artists. Over the past few years we
have introduced Hip Joint, Lakota Son, Amanda Stott, Ron Sexsmith and
Daniel Powter to our audience. We
have also provided many new artists with an opportunity to showcase their
talents with our exclusive loyal listener club
performances.
3603
Standard Radio also uses a company wide playlist comparison to ensure an
artist's success in Grande Prairie can expand from a regional to a national
level. With this proactive approach
to nurturing and exposing Canadian talent, our commitment to establish Canadian
superstars, reaching and maintaining 40 per cent Cancon is more achievable in
the Soft AC format as we utilize music from a variety of
formats.
3604
The Soft AC format is unique and what we call family friendly appealing
to women and families with the assurance of inoffensive lyrics or verbal
content. We are so proud to
inaugurate Grande Prairie's first family friendly radio station that we will
include our family friendly pledge on the EZ Rock Grande Prairie Web
site.
3605
MR. FORBES: Thank you,
Tammy.
3606
Now I would like to introduce Jane Morrissey with information on our
sales plan.
3607
MS MORRISSEY: Grande Prairie
is growing at an unprecedented rate of over 4 per cent per year. It is a major hub for most of the Peace
region, serving up to 200,000 people.
3608
As part of Alberta's growing economy Grande Prairie has seen growth in
oil and gas, agriculture, forestry and the tourism industries. Retail spending, population growth,
building permits and new business licences show steady increases year over year
and well above the Canadian average.
Spending in recreation vehicles, ATVs, motorcycles, ski‑doos and camping
equipment is huge. It is an area
that is stunningly beautiful and enjoyed year
round.
3609
The Financial Post predicts retail spending to go over $1 billion for
2006. It has been more than 25
years since the introduction of a new radio service to the Grande Prairie
community. Our research and
experience show that the market is strong and supports licensing at least one FM
station and possibly more, especially if the formats are unique to the
market.
3610
We have surveyed the market and have found several local advertisers that
tell us that if a female 35 plus targeted radio station were in their market
they would use it to reach potential customers. We have talked to key advertisers from
Grande Prairie including the Grande Prairie Chrysler Group, Carpet Superstore
and the Vacation Store, to name a few.
They have told us they would support and advertise on a female 35‑plus
radio station.
3611
Our revenue projections are conservative, realistic and achievable in
Grande Prairie. With Standard's
financial and programming expertise there is plenty of time and opportunity to
build listenership of this property to the levels seen across the Standard
chain.
3612
MR. FORBES: Thank you,
Jane.
3613
Now with news and information,
Betty Selin.
3614
MS SELIN: We believe this
application offers one of the strongest news components due to the resources we
will have in the region and across the country. Our strength is our commitment to
reflect the community of Grande Prairie and surrounding area bringing a new
independent editorial voice to the region.
3615
Our team will focus on local news.
But one of our other advantages is the strength of the Standard Radio
news centres across the country.
Our research showed more than 50 per cent of adults in Grande Prairie
would like to hear more news that connects them to Alberta and Canada in
general.
3616
There will be 62 newscasts per week as well as locally produced news and
public affairs programming featuring content relevant to our audience. Our proposal includes a special noon
cast called the Alberta report that will be coordinated with the Grande Prairie
newsroom utilizing our reporters in Edmonton and Calgary newsrooms, providing
information on oil, forestry, agriculture and government.
3617
Wherever news happens in Canada, we have access to Standard's award
winning network of newsrooms including those just across the border in British
Columbia. When news breaks we will
have access to sources that no one else has.
3618
EZ Rock will have an advantage during major events like provincial or
national elections, budgets or any major government announcements. Our newsroom will have the ability to
link up with our Standard news centres or our special partnership with CTV to
bring news from the source directly to our listeners.
3619
Shift workers will also be able to get the day's news at their
convenience on our Web site. We
have also found this a very useful tool during emergencies like the recent
missing girl in British Columbia.
Many posters were printed from our Web site and put up in stores as the
community rallied to locate this missing child. We were proud to be a small part of
that. It's that dedication to serve
the communities we broadcast in that we will bring to Grande
Prairie.
3620
This application offers a unique opportunity, giving an outlet, to many
groups in the community who currently don't have a voice. There are 90 minutes Sunday morning News
Magazine. Groups we spoke with like the Aboriginal Development Centre, the
Alberta Canadian French Association, Odyssey House, the Multicultural
Association, Sunrise House and the African Caribbean Association are excited
about a new opportunity to connect with the community. Community stringers will be paid to
provide content bearing from current issues to community events. One half hour of this program will be in
French, one half hour in English, the remainder supplied by the aboriginal
community.
3621
Our news policies reflect our commitment to diversity and local
reflection. Our proven track record
to serve our audience will keep our listeners in the Grande Prairie area
connected to the community and well informed.
3622
To further explain that component, Tim Murphy.
3623
MR. MURPHY: Thank you,
Betty.
3624
Tansi. The program will
cover band issues that relate to all First Nations people in the Grande Prairie
region ranging from local events to national events of the Grand Chief
Council. Events included are
Aboriginal Day, which is June 21 in this country, to local powwows and dance,
jig competitions, local and province‑wide, voting procedures for local band
councils, sweat lodge information, language classes for natives, youth
programs. This information is vital
to areas as far north as Treaty 6 and Treaty 8, along with the seven other
native communities in and around the Grande Prairie
region.
3625
This program will also feature national aboriginal celebrities such as
Grant Green, Elijah Harper and Gordon Tootoosis.
3626
Parts of this program will also put an emphasis on First Nations sports
stars such as Jonathan Cheechoo of the San Jose Sharks and Jimmy Nashim,
who is a member of the Team Canada's Olympic fastball team and who is also from
the northern Alberta region.
3627
Native elders will also be included through interviews in native tongue
of Cree and give guidance to retain a sense of history for the youths that they
can understand and be proud of.
3628
Health issues will be of high concern to the radio program: AA locations
and meetings, flu vaccination locations, along with information on educational
programs for aboriginal youth. Part
of the show will also include a native employment section and training locals to
encourage native participation in the community.
3629
This radio program will benefit areas such as Sucker Creek Nation and
Driftpile Nation, just to name a few.
3630
This radio program will benefit the native population. It would make up to 7 per cent to 10 per
cent of the total Grande Prairie region and will be represented well with a new
radio program.
3631
MR. FORBES: Standard has
proposed significant benefits for the development of Canadian talent in the
amount of $100,000 per year or $700,000 over the seven‑year licence term. These are very unique concepts targeted
at serving the local Grande Prairie community. Included will be an EZ Rock talent
search, much like the Canadian Idol phenomenon, where the winner would record a
demo sampler at Edmonton's legendary Homestead Recorders. There will be a cash prize of $10,000
and a special showcase to introduce our winner to influential people in the
music business. Standard will fully
pay for the production of CDs and a professional bio
package.
3632
Standard will direct $15,000 per annum towards the Alberta Recording
Industry Association, will create a brand new $10,000 bursary program for
students at either Northern Alberta Institute of Technology or Grant MacEwen
College in Edmonton. One
specializes in radio and TV and the other in
journalism.
3633
Standard will also create a fund that will support Canadians who are
members of the four designated groups.
This fund will be $10,000 per year.
There will be a donation to FACTOR of $5,000 per year. As well, we will direct $5,000 to
Canadian Music Week annually.
3634
Finally, Standard will create a scholarship program for aboriginal
students to attend one of Canada's leading post‑secondary courses at NATE. This scholarship program will include a
valuable practical placement for the student and an opportunity for future
employment somewhere in the standard chain of radio stations. Again, this is $100,000 per year
guaranteed.
3635
Our non‑cash benefits for Canadian talent will include Standard's well
known national Free Ad Plan which runs commercials promoting new Canadian CDs as
well. Over the past five years
alone Standard Radio corporately has spend $20 million on supporting the
Canadian music industry.
3636
Standard Radio's commitment to the local community is consistent
throughout the entire chain. Last
year alone Standard raised a total of over $7 million across the chain to
assist local hospitals in each of the markets we
serve.
3637
As well as what I have noted with our Bear Children's Fund earlier, EZ
Rock Edmonton produces one of the most unique programs each Christmas called the
EZ Rock Single Parent Christmas Party where 500 people enjoy a party with Santa,
Christmas entertainment and a fun that they might not ordinarily enjoy due to
their family situation. This
initiative as well will be ruled out to EZ Rock Grande
Prairie.
3638
Our philosophy is to find out the needs in a community and to fill that
need. I'm sure if you have read
through our letters of support you will see this is the practice at Standard
Radio Edmonton and a promise to roll out to Grande
Prairie.
3639
We have presented what we consider to be a well thought out and strong
application for a Soft AC radio station to be called EZ Rock Grande
Prairie, the key highlights being:
a new and strong voice for Grande Prairie; a brand new format not heard
in the market; 40 per cent Canadian content; a benefits package of $700,000 over
the seven year period; a new and dynamic approach to news and information using
Standard's newsrooms from across the country; partnerships with both CTV and ADR
that will be part of our news and magazine coverage to the area; news jobs and
careers in the broadcasting industry; and, finally, a realistic and achievable
business plan.
3640
We feel our application brings an exclusive new format, Soft AC, and
substantial news and information commitments that are highly complementary to a
city going through rapid growth like Grande Prairie is experiencing at this
time.
3641
This concludes our presentation and we appreciate the opportunity to
answer any questions you may have.
3642
Thank you.
3643
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Forbes.
3644
I am asking Commissioner Cugini to ask you the first
questions.
3645
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Ladies
and gentlemen, good afternoon.
Welcome to the home stretch of this part of the proceedings
anyway.
3646
I understand that EZ Rock is a name brand that is associated with
Standard Radio. Has that come to
mean wherever a radio station is branded as EZ Rock as a combination of
Soft Rock and Adult Contemporary music?
3647
MR. FORBES: The good thing
about EZ Rock is that is exactly the brand, it is Soft Rock and nothing
else. If there is a blend there may
be a Country crossover, but it certainly doesn't share any tendencies from CHR
or almost any other chart.
3648
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So Soft
AC, as you have just described it, is exactly what you have just
said.
3649
MR. FORBES:
Absolutely.
3650
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And the
addition of non‑traditional AC ‑‑ I'm sorry, I don't remember your
name.
3651
MR. FORBES: That's Tammy,
Tammy Cole.
3652
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Cole.
3653
MS COLE:
Yes.
3654
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: ‑‑ that you talked about, will we be seeing
those kinds of selections also included in the Grande Prairie station if
licensed?
3655
MS COLE:
Yes.
3656
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So it
will be a combination of Soft Rock and AC.
3657
MR. FORBES: We are really
talking the same thing.
3658
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Okay.
3659
MS COLE: Yes, it is the same
thing.
3660
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: All
right. You see them as the same
thing.
3661
MR. FORBES:
Absolutely.
3662
MS COLE:
Yes.
3663
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: That's
good.
3664
Your research shows that this will be popular with the 25 to 54
demographic group. You also say
that it will have a particular appeal to 35 to 44. Have you identified a core audience
within that 35 to 44 year old group that this station will appeal
to?
3665
MR. FORBES: I'm going to let
Mr. Vidler answer that question.
3666
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Sure.
3667
MR. VIDLER: The station
would have its peak audience. The
research indicates a potential of a 37 per cent share among 25 to 54 year old
females. I think sort of if you cut
to the centre of that in terms of a vision of the listener that I think Marty
has in mind is something like a 37‑year old female with a couple of children, if
you are sort of trying to imagine sort of a core listener. Obviously, it would be a blend of
different listeners, but that would represent ‑‑ the essence of the format
would be ‑‑
3668
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And
that's aka the median age of your listener.
3669
MR. VIDLER:
Yes.
3670
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Okay.
3671
You have also identified in your research that both this format and
Classic Rock or Rock would also be very popular so why did you choose this
format for the Grande Prairie market?
3672
MR. VIDLER: It's been our
experience that broadcasters like to research, they like to go in with an idea
of what they would like to do and then have it qualified. We decided to step a little bit further
into it and say, let's find out what the entire market is looking for and go two
and three deep, especially where we might have some expertise in a format and
the EZ Rock format absolutely jumped right out with this
application.
3673
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: I also
believe that throughout your application you talked about your expertise in
particular with your station in Edmonton and of course your station in
Toronto. Are there going to be
other programming synergies other than the news and information ones that you
cited in your opening statement that you will share with your Edmonton
station?
3674
MR. FORBES: Grande Prairie
would operate total separate. The
one thing that Standard does do is a lot of discussions and comparing things and
good ideas. As Tammy mentioned, you
know, James Blunt we were playing here in Edmonton for almost a month and the
other stations were kind of watching for some activity. So there is always sharing of resources
and expertise in this same format.
We do that the same with our Rock stations and news talk as
well.
3675
But from a hands‑on standalone aspect, EZ Rock Grande Prairie will
be ‑‑ they might just find the next Daniel Powter up
there.
3676
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Will it
be a standalone operation?
3677
MR. FORBES:
Absolutely.
3678
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So it
will have its own traffic system, its own billing system, et cetera, all
the back office functions within a building in Grande
Prairie.
3679
MR. FORBES: That's
correct.
3680
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Okay.
3681
So the only synergies really may be what works in Edmonton as far as a
playlist is concerned might be communicated to Grande Prairie and they might try
it there and vice‑versa.
3682
MR. FORBES: There could be
something like promotions. I mean
there are only so many ways you can do Mother's Day, so if there is somebody in
our Vernon EZ Rock or Salmon Arm EZ Rock that has a great idea, they would fire
that out and we would apply it to the area.
3683
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Are you
going to fly Leeza Gibbons into Grande Prairie to do TV promos? You don't have to answer
that.
3684
MR. FORBES: Can't afford
her.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3685
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: One of
the things that I found interesting in your supplementary brief, you said it
would distinguish itself because it was designed to depend in large part on
interactivity and public involvement to cover the daily news. I was just wondering if you could
explain to us a little bit on how that is going to work and what do you mean by
"interactivity with the public".
3686
MR. FORBES: Absolutely. I will let Betty handle
that.
3687
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Sure.
3688
MS SELIN: One of the things
that I think you were specifically referring to is our Sunday morning News
Magazine; for a station in a market this size I think it will be quite
unique. Basically, our intent is,
of course the news director would be ultimately responsible for this program,
but it's our intent to find what we are calling community stringers within the
community to help put that content together.
3689
I spent quite a bit of time on the phone talking to community
groups. As I'm sure you can
appreciate, in a booming economy there are a lot of social issues that come
up. It's difficult to deal with
those kinds of in‑depth issues in a newscast where a story might be 30, 45
seconds long. What we are looking
at here is in‑depth interviews.
Let's talk about what is going on in that community. You know, you want to hear the bad with
the good and you want the community to come together to find
solutions. So we see the Sunday
morning News Magazine as that kind of venue.
3690
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So you
will be looking for stringers.
3691
MS SELIN: Within the
community, yes, on top of our regular news staff.
3692
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Yes.
3693
So they will be hired on a freelance basis.
3694
MS SELIN: That's right. We have budgeted for them and they would
be paid on sort of a per show basis.
3695
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: How big
will your newsroom be in Grande Prairie?
3696
MS SELIN: We have three full
time and one part time.
3697
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: That
will be doing only news.
3698
MS SELIN: That's right. Do you want me to further
explain?
3699
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Sure.
3700
MS SELIN:
Okay.
3701
Our news director will be the morning show co‑host, which is the position
that is relatively common within Standard stations. In my regular job, that's what I
do. I'm a news director and a
morning show co‑host.
3702
The secondary news position would be the afternoon news anchor, who would
also of course report in the morning before they do their afternoon
anchorship.
3703
The third full‑time position would be a reporter three days a week and
the weekend anchor.
3704
Then we would have a half‑time reporter that would cover, you know, those
evening meetings that nobody wants to go to.
3705
Then our stringers would be over and above
that.
3706
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Then
over and above that would also be your weather and sports
people.
3707
MS SELIN: Those would be
handled within the news department.
3708
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So are
they included in that outline of staff that you just gave
us.
3709
MS SELIN: That's right. Yes. Exactly. The person who does the morning news
read would do the morning sports as well.
They would be the one, you know, checking the Web sites, getting those
hockey scores, doing that kind of thing.
3710
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Back to
your Sunday morning news and magazine, you said it would be presented in
English, French and Cree.
3711
MS SELIN: That's
correct. We intend to break it down
into 30‑minute segments, so the interview portion of the show that I spoke about
would be, you know, much of the English portion, would be about the community
issues as well as, you know, fundraising events, community. You know, whatever is going on in that
community you are going to find out about what is coming up the next week on the
Sunday.
3712
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So
every week it will be split a third, a third and a
third.
3713
MS SELIN: That's our
intention. I mean that's in a
perfect world. I guess we will find
out when we get into it because this is a unique program that we have developed
for this radio station so, you know, we will learn by trial and
error.
3714
Don, who actually lives in the market, has spent some time communicating
with the Alberta Canadian French Association, which is ‑‑ there is a
significant French population just outside the Grande Prairie area. They are very interested in having a
voice, so one of our news staff would obviously have to be bilingual and that
would have to be a condition of their employment.
3715
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And
this type of programming is unique to the market, there is no other radio
station providing this kind of programming.
3716
MS SELIN: Not that we are
aware of that does this sort of more lengthy kind of programming, then of course
our relationship with the Aboriginal Voices Radio that we are developing as well
as within the community the contacts that Tim has made.
3717
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Is this
a 52‑week commitment?
3718
MS SELIN: This is a forever
commitment.
3719
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Okay
then, times seven times the second term ‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3720
MS SELIN: Times seven times
seven times seven.
3721
MR. FORBES: If I can just
add about the interactivity. It is
a big component. It really is
important that the public has access to the airwaves and your product. We have a loyal listener club that
receives a minimum one newsletter per month telling them everything that is
going on in our operation. They are
asked to respond back to anything that they would like to comment on. If we are launching our Christmas music
it may be saying, when would you like it, when is too soon, when is too
late.
3722
We also invite those listeners once a month to come join often in the
radio station, wander through. We
bring in dinner and have them comment on the entire market, what they like and
dislike, especially with artists as well, music they would like to hear. So the whole radio station is constantly
built on talking to the audience.
3723
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Of
course this is a program that you will be producing.
3724
MR. FORBES: That's
correct.
3725
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Is
there any other local programming that you will be producing that is part of
this application?
3726
MR. FORBES: Over and above
the magazine show?
3727
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Yes.
3728
MR. FORBES: Our normal 6:00
a.m. to 6:00 p.m. will all be local.
Our evenings will be the syndicated Delilah show. That's heard on about 150 radio stations
across North America. It is also
interactive. It has a 1‑800 phone
number and email access as well.
3729
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Of
course the 40 per cent Canadian content commitment, you will accept that as a
condition of licence.
3730
MR. FORBES:
Absolutely.
3731
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And you
will accept that as a condition of licence from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
Monday to Friday.
3732
MR. FORBES:
Correct.
3733
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: I have
to ask that.
3734
CTD. You did not mention it
in your opening remarks this afternoon.
However, it is in your supplementary brief. It's the $15,000 a year to the
aboriginal French language info program, so the one that we have just spoken
about ‑‑
3735
MR. FORBES: That's the
Sunday morning program we referenced.
3736
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Right.
3737
MR. FORBES: That's
correct.
3738
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Why do
you think this is eligible CTD?
3739
MR. FORBES: I can't remember
which applicant was talking this morning, it might have been
Mr. Arnish. I truly believe
that you have to help develop the entire broadcast industry as
well.
3740
I'm the head of NATE's radio and TV course and I have been guiding them
along the lines of changing their intake system to reflect the needs in the
community. I think we as
broadcasters have to help support and sustain the need for all these new
broadcasters that are coming out there and that we should pay for their
education, give them practice and programs and then employment in the broadcast
industry.
3741
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So it
is the development of talent that would produce programming for your radio
station.
3742
MR. FORBES: It's taking a
young employee to these courses, spending two years with them, bringing them
into the radio station, teaching them hands on and then employing
them.
3743
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: If
during our deliberations we don't agree with that assessment, are you still
committed to this ‑‑ would you still be committed to the Sunday morning
program?
3744
MR. FORBES: Absolutely. As a matter of fact, Mr. Albright, from
behind here, is sitting here from NATE, and if this doesn't qualify we would
direct that funding towards NATE for their needs, but we will continue doing the
Sunday morning show regardless.
3745
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: You
would redirect that $15,000 to NATE as part of the CTD ‑‑ oh, your overall
CTD commitment.
3746
MR. FORBES: Yes, we
would.
3747
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank
you.
3748
In terms of impact ‑‑ don't answer the question how many radio
stations just yet can Grande Prairie support ‑‑
3749
MR. FORBES: Thank
you.
3750
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: ‑‑ if you were in the room this morning and
even later on this afternoon, Bear Creek, and Vista agree with them, that
Standard is one of the applicants, that is, one of the applicants that would
have an impact on their proposed service if you were both awarded a licence as a
result of the stations that Standard Radio operates in Fort St. John and
Dawson Creek.
3751
Now, your salesperson is here so could you tell us ‑‑ part of the
question is going to be can you tell us your services outside the Grande Prairie
market. Can you confirm that they
do generate both revenue and audience in Grande Prairie?
3752
MR. FORBES: I'm sorry. I will let Don discuss his exact
role.
3753
The closest radio station is a long, long way from Grande Prairie. We are about 85 miles or
100‑and‑something kilometres in another time zone.
3754
Don, if you can just outline that?
3755
MR. LINDSAY: Hi, I'm Don
Lindsay. I have been in Grande
Prairie for over about 40 years now.
I have been selling Grande Prairie, Fort St. John, Dawson Creek and Fort
Nelson Standard Radio advertising to the people in our market, in the Grande
Prairie market, who want to hit that 80,000 to 90,000 market, that total
northeastern British Columbia side of the
border.
3756
Currently, the highway between Dawson Creek, Fort St. John and Grande
Prairie is bumper to bumper. It has
been that way for a few years and it is going to get worse. We have a large segment of that
population that come over to shop in Grande Prairie. The only contact that they have with
Standard Radio in Grande Prairie is me selling the advertising I'm selling to
the local retailers to go into the Dawson Creek‑Fort St. John market. They do not hear us, they do not see
us. We are not heard or seen in the
Grande Prairie market, our stations, and that includes our television station
also.
3757
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So the
radio signals absolutely do not come into the Grande Prairie
market.
3758
MR. LINDSAY: You might get a
faint glimpse of one for about 10 or 15 seconds, but actually you cannot pick
them up and keep them on your station.
3759
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Can you
tell us what percentage of the advertising revenue for Fort St. John and
Dawson Creek come from Grande Prairie retailers?
3760
MR. LINDSAY: I would say we
are selling about $360,000 to $400,000 a year out of Grande Prairie. That's the revenue we are taking in in
Fort St. John and Dawson Creek.
3761
As far as the total percentage, I can't give it to
you.
3762
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Do you
foresee any operating synergies with those radio stations?
3763
MR. FORBES: I think from a
news standpoint Betty might have some ideas on how we might maximize
that.
3764
MS SELIN: I mean any of our
news stations we can share information right across the country. Standard Radio has an email system, it
is called SRI News, and whatever happens anywhere, if it is a big story, we put
it on that site and everyone has access to it. It's what gives us an advantage from the
rest of the world is using broadcast news.
We can use our own reporters.
So that would be available.
You know certainly there are some similarities in, you know,
resource‑based stories, that kind of thing. If Dawson Creek or Fort St. John did an
interesting story certainly they would have access to it, but we don't
see ‑‑ you know, there certainly wouldn't be simulcasting of
newscasts. It would be more sharing
of perhaps contacts or story ideas or a really big story, we'd absolutely share
it.
3765
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Would
that include programs from Standard's sister company Soundsource? Would you be accessing of that
programming?
3766
MR. FORBES: Soundsource is a
tremendous service and if there were some news or public affairs programs we
certainly would take a look at it if it was relevant to the
area.
3767
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And
none of their music programming.
3768
MR. FORBES: Pardon
me?
3769
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: None of
their music programming.
3770
MR. FORBES: Delilah is
actually a Soundsource product. It
is Canadianized in Toronto and sent out across the
country.
3771
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Okay. So there are plans to
include that and there may be plans to include others.
3772
MR. FORBES: That's
correct. Something like the LIVE 8
that came out a year ago, Standard had the rights to that and we had the option
to run it and did run it on our two properties here. A very similar scenario. We would do that.
3773
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Okay. Now the impact
question.
3774
You have heard various scenarios that were described both yesterday and
today. What would your response be
if we ‑‑ first of all, how many radio stations do you believe the Grande
Prairie market can sustain?
3775
MR. FORBES: I think if we
are including the Touch tone I think three. I think it is imperative that they are
as far apart as they possibly can be in format. I just operated this last year with four
new competitors and a format flip can certainly alter the landscape, but if each
is true to their own format that they promise and follow through, I think we can
all operate quite well.
3776
I mean the one difference with AC, it is a 70 per cent female and very,
very low duplication on any of these other operations for any of the
descriptions that I have heard, artist‑wise, yes, but the softer material from
the Eagles and from the Doobie Brothers, that type, so there is very, very
little duplication on this radio station.
3777
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: If we
were to licence you and we were to give OK Radio their second, you heard them
yesterday, or maybe you didn't, but they said that if we were to licence their
application, their current radio station, they would probably skew their format
to a softer AC than what they are currently doing. If that scenario pans out will you still
launch your radio station with the format as proposed?
3778
MR. FORBES: That would cause
me to lose what little hair I have left.
However, we are very confident in the product of EZ Rock and would
continue to launch, absolutely.
3779
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: With
this format as proposed.
3780
MR. FORBES: That's
correct.
3781
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: You
heard the presentation from Crude Communications just before you came up. What if we licensed that service, what
impact would that have on your proposal?
3782
MR. FORBES: It wouldn't
cause me any problems at all.
3783
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: You
would still keep all your hair.
3784
MR. FORBES: It's a
hope. It may be too
late.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3785
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank
you.
3786
MR. FORBES: Thank
you.
3787
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank
you, Mr. Chairman. Those are
all my questions.
3788
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Commissioner Cram.
3789
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you.
3790
Mr. Forbes, there was just one question. You are going to be live on air during
the regulated time, 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
I heard you correctly.
3791
MR. FORBES: That's
correct.
3792
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And 6:00
p.m. until midnight, did I hear you say syndicated
programming?
3793
MR. FORBES: It's a program
called Delilah. It's kind of an
Oprahish radio program. It is done
in Seattle, Washington but fed across the country with a 1‑800. It's love music and love ‑‑ very
uplifting type programs. We would
run that.
3794
COMMISSIONER CRAM: It's a
phone‑in show.
3795
MR. FORBES: Yes, it is. Yes.
3796
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. Thank you very
much. That's
all.
3797
THE CHAIRPERSON: Could I get
back to your French and aboriginal language component and I will maybe ‑‑
just to try to understand because it is interesting what you have
said.
3798
I will start with the aboriginal portion of it, but the section that Mr.
Murphy read, if you are planning to do that in half an hour every week, I don't
know at which speed they will be talking.
3799
MR. FORBES: A show of that
type is successful because of the guests that you have to come in to the
area. If Robbie Robertson was in
town with a brand new album he could eat that up in 90 minutes easily or that
half hour easily, but Mr. Murphy has a very firm grasp on this and Standard is
very heavily involved in the Saber program and we have a gentleman by the name
of Robert Laboucane from Ripple Effects, who spent a great deal of time with us
telling us the needs and the requirements.
It was absolutely eye opening for us living in Alberta the problems that
are being encountered in some of these communities.
3800
Tim, if you wouldn't mind describing the program just a little bit
further.
3801
MR. MURPHY: I just want to
say first of all that I am very proud that Standard Broadcasting has taken the
initiative to make the First Nation aboriginal people a part of this application
and to join with them and to go in a positive direction. It is very important for the aboriginal
community to not only be heard but be heard by themselves, to be able to get in
there and do the work, do the reporting, do the stringing work, and be proud of
what they do, not only in English but in Cree or other native languages. It's very important for the aboriginal
people, myself, to be a part of this process and to make sure that we are going
in a positive direction. I think
that Standard Radio is doing that.
I really do think that they want the aboriginal people to be represented
not only in this country but represented by themselves.
3802
THE CHAIRPERSON: You have
mentioned that AVR will be contributing.
What are you expecting as a contribution from AVR?
3803
MR. FORBES: AVR would be
supplying us the bulk tape from whatever content that would have local relevance
to a national show. They are just
launching in Vancouver I think almost any day now and they will have the
Edmonton and Calgary licences. So
we would have the option to take that material and edit it and present it in the
show and in return if there is news of relevance from northern Alberta, we would
eventually feed it down to AVR as well, so a partnership. It will probably be a good, long time
before AVR has stations in markets that small.
3804
THE CHAIRPERSON: Are there
native broadcasters around Grande Prairie, because I met with Mr. Bert
Crawfoot ‑‑
3805
MR. FORBES: He is part of
the Saber program as well.
3806
THE CHAIRPERSON: Which
program? He is surely not part of
AVR.
3807
MR. FORBES: I'm sorry; he is
not part of AVR.
3808
THE CHAIRPERSON: He is
operating, and I don't remember the name of his organization,
but ‑‑
3809
MR. FORBES: There's the
APTN‑TV and then there is the Star Choice satellite feed. It's only on a satellite
feed.
3810
THE CHAIRPERSON: But here in
Alberta there is a ‑‑
3811
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Isn't it
the Siksika? It's the native
broadcasters that initially started up by Heritage Canada in each of the four
western provinces, and this is the Alberta one, and I think they are
Siksika.
3812
THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Do they have radio stations in the
northern area around Grande Prairie or whatever?
3813
MR. FORBES: Not that I'm
aware of.
3814
THE CHAIRPERSON: And you,
Mr. Murphy?
3815
MR. MURPHY: I understand
that they are part of the group of Windspeaker, which does have transmitters
that does broadcast across Alberta.
Yes, they do, they have feeders.
3816
THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay. Are they covering a portion of the Peace
River area?
3817
MR. MURPHY: I'm not familiar
with that right now, sir. I really
don't know.
3818
THE CHAIRPERSON: You are not
familiar with that.
3819
MR. MURPHY:
No.
3820
THE CHAIRPERSON: Regarding
the French component, it is my understanding from various readings that I have
that there are a good number of Quebeckers that are working in Grande
Prairie. I know for a fact that
Franco‑Albertans and Québécois are not necessarily the same
group.
3821
The French component of your program, I noticed that in your presentation
you are saying that you have been dealing with the Alberta Canadian French
Association. Are you going to be
aiming at the Franco‑Albertan or at the Québécois who comes to work in Grande
Prairie?
3822
MR. FORBES: I am going to
let Betty handle how we do this.
3823
MS SELIN: Our discussions
were with Liette Hurtubise who is with the Alberta Canadian French Association,
so, yes, it is that community that is outside of Grande Prairie that we had in
mind. Certainly, if someone who,
you know, heard our program, liked what they heard and wanted to have a say, we
certainly wouldn't deny them that opportunity. But it is our intention to work with
this already very active community who feels that they don't have an adequate
voice right now.
3824
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Commissioner Williams wants to ask questions.
3825
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
3826
Mr. Forbes, in your opening remarks you stated Standard Radio is a
family‑owned and operated broadcasting business. Does this mean your firm's proposed IPO
activities are on permanent hold?
3827
MR. FORBES: Yes, sir, they
are. I believe the application has
been Gazetted but the program or the plan is on hold at this
time.
3828
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay.
3829
Could you please describe how your $10,000 per year fund to support the
four designated groups will work in practical terms, like how will the money be
spent, what is it for?
3830
MR. FORBES: That one is what
I like to call like a songwriter's circle.
We have done this with Ron Sexsmith where we take a number of people out
and we will bring in designated groups and entertain them and actually teach
them how to write songs, how the music business works and quite possibly have
them enter the Standard national songwriting contest as well. So it is a giant showcase of this artist
to the designated groups.
3831
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would
one artist supply for the whole 10 or is it just something that you pay for and
organize?
3832
MR. FORBES: We would pay for
everything, bus transportation, if need be, hall rental, whatever needs
be.
3833
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay. Thank you. Those are all my
questions.
3834
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
3835
Legal counsel.
3836
MS FISHER: Just one quick
question.
3837
We notice in your application that it appears that one Standard condition
of licence was overlooked when you were filling it out so we just want to ask
you whether you undertake by condition of licence to refrain from soliciting or
accepting local advertising for broadcasts during any broadcast week when less
than one‑third of the programming aired is local.
3838
MR. FORBES: Yes. Correct.
3839
MS FISHER: Thank you. Those are my
questions.
3840
THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, Mr.
Forbes, you have the next two minutes to tell us why Standard should be granted
a licence to serve Grande Prairie.
3841
MR. FORBES: Thank
you.
3842
I would first like to thank and commend the Commission. You have an extremely hard job to do, as
there are some very good applications on the table for Grande
Prairie.
3843
The bar definitely has risen with these applications and the city of
Grande Prairie will directly benefit from your decision as to whom to grant
these new licences to.
3844
You asked us to do our homework and you surely have done
yours.
3845
Standard Radio has a passion for the radio business and that passion is
extended to each and every market that we serve big and small. It is a family‑owned business whose
success depends on not only serving the community but superserving the
community.
3846
Each year at the CAB and at the Canadian Music Week, Standard takes home
awards for this type of service. If
you did take the time to read the letters of support we received from our
application, you would see confirmation of our commitment from people like the
United Way, the Stollery Children's Hospital, the Edmonton Oilers Hockey Club,
God bless them, the Royal Alexander Hospital Foundation, Mothers Against Drunk
Driving, the Edmonton Police DARE Service Program, YWCA, the MS Society and
NATE, to name just a few.
3847
Each of these letters came from business leaders in Edmonton who
recognize our dedication to serving the community. It is our promise to roll out this same
level of service to Grande Prairie that Edmonton and Calgary enjoy, that Terrace
and Dawson Creek enjoy, that Calgary, Penticton and Trail, B.C.
enjoy.
3848
We know the AC format well.
I have personally programmed Soft AC radio stations for the past 25 years
in markets as small as Lethbridge and as large as Vancouver in
Toronto.
3849
We know the province. My
family alone has more than 75 years of broadcast experience in Edmonton and
Calgary. Our promises are
substantial and we are prepared to honour each and every one of them. Standard Radio is in it for the long
haul and deserves full consideration for what we feel is a very unique and
dynamic radio station promise for the community.
3850
Thank you.
3851
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Forbes. Thank you to your
team.
3852
This ends the first phase of this portion of the hearing, the Grande
Prairie hearing.
3853
Before moving to Phase II, may I remind those who have comments to make
regarding the various scenarios or other questions that have been raised by the
Commission throughout the hearing, I know that some of those questions did
really evolve, and who wants to make comments to make them in Phase II. We will not accept the comments you want
to make on these matters in Phase IV unless they are comments on another
applicant.
3854
Thank you.
3855
We will move along immediately with Phase II.
3856
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
3857
Maybe before we start I just would like to indicate that two applicants
have filed the documents they have committed to do before this
phase.
3858
One is from Crude Communications.
They are revised projected financial figures. The document will be on the application
file in the examination room for those who wish to view
them.
3859
The other one is from the applicant Sun Country. There are two commitments they have put
forward. One is the hypothetical
audience shares in the Grande Prairie radio market and the other document is
regarding the various hypotheticals licensing scenarios also in Grande
Prairie. Again, these documents
will be in the application file and can be viewed in the examination
room.
3860
Now moving on to Phase II of the process, I just wish to indicate that
six applicants will not be appearing in this phase. Two have not indicated whether they will
or not, so I will be calling them in the reverse order that they are in the
agenda starting by Newcap Inc. If
they are in the room and wish to appear if you would come forward
please.
3861
I would then call Sun Country Cablevision Limited on behalf of a
corporation to be incorporated. If
they wish to appear in Phase II they could come forward.
3862
Continuing with Vista Radio Limited.
3863
And finally, Crude Communications Inc., if they would come forward to
make their presentation in this case.
3864
Mr. Gauvin, you have 10 minutes for your
presentation.
INTERVENTION
3865
MR. GAUVIN: Thank you very
much.
3866
Not to be the only guy crying and griping about anything, it seems like I
am I guess in this phase, my only concern is with the presentation by Sun
Country Cablevision.
3867
In their presentation they outlined that they had within their
application arranged to do play‑by‑play broadcasts of Grande Prairie Storm games
and that their letter of support indicated this as well. That's just not accurate information and
it is not in part of their application or their letter of support from that
organization.
3868
That's the only thing I was concerned about.
3869
Thank you.
3870
THE SECRETARY: Mr. Chairman,
this completes Phase II of the process for the agenda Item Nos 1 to
10. Back to
you.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3871
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much.
3872
We will resume the hearing tomorrow morning at 8:30. Have a nice
evening.
‑‑‑ Whereupon the hearing adjourned
at 1800, to resume
on Wednesday, June 21, 2006
at 0830 / L'audience
est ajournée à 1800, pour
reprendre le mercredi
21 juin 2006 à
0830
REPORTERS
______________________
______________________
Richard Johansson
Lynda Johansson
______________________
______________________
Jennifer Cheslock
Diane Schroeter