TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE
THE CANADIAN RADIO‑TELEVISION AND
TELECOMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
TRANSCRIPTION DES AUDIENCES DEVANT
LE CONSEIL DE LA RADIODIFFUSION
ET DES TÉLÉCOMMUNICATIONS CANADIENNES
SUBJECT:
Review of the Commercial Radio Policy
/
Examen de la Politique sur la radio
commerciale
HELD AT:
TENUE À:
Westin Edmonton Hotel
l'Hôtel Westin Edmonton
10135 100th Street
10135, 100e rue
Edmonton, Alberta
Edmonton (Alberta)
June 21, 2006
Le 21 juin 2006
Transcripts
In order to meet the requirements of
the Official Languages
Act, transcripts of proceedings
before the Commission will be
bilingual as to their covers, the
listing of the CRTC members
and staff attending the public
hearings, and the Table of
Contents.
However, the aforementioned
publication is the recorded
verbatim transcript and, as such, is
taped and transcribed in
either of the official languages,
depending on the language
spoken by the participant at the
public hearing.
Transcription
Afin de rencontrer les exigences de
la Loi sur les langues
officielles, les procès‑verbaux pour
le Conseil seront
bilingues en ce qui a trait à la
page couverture, la liste des
membres et du personnel du CRTC
participant à l'audience
publique ainsi que la table des
matières.
Toutefois, la publication
susmentionnée est un compte rendu
textuel des délibérations et, en
tant que tel, est enregistrée
et transcrite dans l'une ou l'autre
des deux langues
officielles, compte tenu de la
langue utilisée par le
participant à l'audience
publique.
Canadian Radio‑television and
Telecommunications Commission
Conseil de la radiodiffusion et des
télécommunications canadiennes
Transcript / Transcription
Review of the
Commercial Radio Policy /
Examen de la
Politique sur la radio commerciale
BEFORE / DEVANT:
Michel Arpin
Chairperson / Président
Barbara Cram
Commissioner / Conseillère
Rita Cugini
Commissioner / Conseillère
Ronald Williams
Commissioner / Conseiller
Stuart Langford
Commissioner / Conseiller
ALSO PRESENT / AUSSI
PRÉSENTS:
Chantal Boulet
Secretary / Secrétaire
Joe Aguiar
Hearing Manager /
Gérant de l'audience
Anne-Marie Murphy/
Legal Counsel /
Shari Fisher
Conseillères juridiques
HELD AT:
TENUE À:
Westin Edmonton Hotel
l'Hôtel Westin Edmonton
10135 100th Street
10135, 100e rue
Edmonton, Alberta
Edmonton (Alberta)
June 21, 2006
Le 21 juin 2006
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE III
INTERVENTION BY / INTERVENTION
PAR:
Frank Biegel
670 / 3881
Dan Balisky
672 / 3896
Lorne LaRochelle
674 / 3905
Grande Prairie & District
Multicultural
680 / 3946
Association
Mamawenowak Society
684 / 3959
Arts Culture Heritage and Music Festival
688 / 3977
Arjun Roy and Justin Staffen
694 / 3993
Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival
714 / 4095
Arlene Miller
719 / 4114
Greg King
728 / 4152
Mike Townsend
731 / 4166
Peace Wapiti Academy
747 / 4244
Summerslam Sports Ltd.
751 / 4261
Amanda Ford
753 / 4268
Grande Prairie Storm Hockey Club
755 / 4280
PHASE IV
REPLY BY / RÉPLIQUE PAR:
Standard Radio Inc.
766 / 4355
Crude Communications Inc.
767 / 4361
Jim Pattison Broadcast Group Ltd.
768 / 4370
Sun Country Cablevision Ltd.
772 / 4388
Bear Creek Broadcasting Ltd.
776 / 4417
O.K. Radio Group Ltd.
777 / 4428
Newcap Inc.
784 / 4467
Allan Hunsperger (OBCI)
785 / 4475
1097282 Alberta Ltd.
792 / 4524
TABLE DES MATIÈRES / TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE / PARA
PHASE I
PRESENTATION BY / PRÉSENTATION
PAR:
1182743 Alberta Ltd.
795 / 4543
Standard Radio Inc.
851 / 4875
Vista Radio Ltd.
907 / 5301
Golden West Broadcasting Ltd.
964 / 5680
Gatineau, Quebec / Gatineau (Québec)
‑‑‑ Upon commencing on Wednesday,
June 21, 2006
at 0837 / l'audience débute
le mercredi
21 juin 2006 à
0837
3873
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order,
please.
We are now starting Phase III of
this public hearing and I will have the secretary make the
introduction.
3874
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
3875
Phase III is the phase where other parties appear in the order that are
set out in the agenda to present their intervention.
3876
For the record, I would like to indicate the intervenor CIRPA listed on
the agenda has informed the Commission that they will not be appearing at the
hearing.
3877
Also, two of the appearing intervenors who were listed on the agenda
after the Fort McMurray presentations have informed us that they have
inadvertently referred to the wrong application on their intervention. They intended to intervene on behalf or
in support of the Grande Prairie application of Allan Hunsperger, which is Item
2 on the agenda. Therefore, these
two intervenors will be called this morning along with the ‑‑ on the list
of intervenors in support of Mr. Hunsperger.
3878
So I would call Mr. Lorne LaRochelle; Mr. Frank Biegel of the company
313894 Alberta Limited on operating as Magnum Electric and Mr. Dan Balisky;
Peace Farm Power John Deere. These
three intervenors will be appearing on support of Mr.
Hunsperger.
3879
Starting with Mr. Biegel, if you would start your ‑‑ make your
presentation? You have 10 minutes
followed by Mr. Balisky and Mr. LaRochelle.
3880
Please go ahead.
INTERVENTION
3881
MR. BIEGEL: Mr. Chairman,
Commissioners and staff, my name is Frank Biegel.
3882
My wife and I have been a resident of Grande Prairie and area for the
past 45 years. We are blessed with
four children and now are proudly grandparents of 18
grandchildren.
3883
I own and operate an electrical contracting business for the past 35
years, employing up to 45 people.
3884
I have experienced Grande Prairie as a medium‑sized town, from a
medium‑sized town to a city of today, in this period of time from the local
radio station of one to two stations as well as several remote
stations.
3885
When I heard of the possibility of a Gospel radio station coming to this
area I, as well as many of my Catholic Church supporters, got quite excited
about it. I spoke to my children
and grandchildren about it. They
all were also excited about this as most of them sing and play instruments as
well as a recreational pastime.
Yes, Gospel music is most of their favourite songs. I then asked some of them to write down
points and what their reasons were for wanting a Gospel persuasion radio station
in our city, and the following are some of the answers I got: Promote and support our young people with good
moral values.
3886
We desperately want and need a station like this.
3887
We feel out of touch with our Christian persuasion.
3888
To stay informed locally and nationally.
3889
The forgotten north needs an outlet for Christian
music.
3890
To promote love, compassion and encouragement of our families; to promote
a sense of worth to the children of our country; to promote family life and
values; to promote encouragement and advice for young families living in this
fast‑paced world.
3891
Put emphasis on family entertainment rather than secular adult innuendos
in song, in advertising and in news.
3892
I really think that this type of station would be supported by thousands
in the area by both young and old.
We have been going to Gospel jamborees throughout the area for the past
10 years and there is always sell‑out attendance at these
functions.
3893
I plead with you for your support, that Grande Prairie is ready for a
Gospel radio station and ensure that the results will be rewarding to the
listener.
3894
Thank you for your attention.
3895
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
3896
MR. BALISKY: Good morning,
Mr. Chairman and members of the CRTC.
3897
My name is Dan Balisky and I have lived and resided in the Grande Prairie
area all my life. In fact, my
father came in Peace River Country in 1912 and our parents raised 10 children,
and our family has been very active in the community, offering our time to many
of the organizations in the community.
I have been the past president of the Chamber of Commerce; past president
of our local Rotary Club; past chairman of the QEII Foundation Hospital Board
and chairman of our local church board.
3898
We as a family operate several businesses in the area and many of my
associates and friends feel very strongly that we need an alternative in a radio
station such as a Gospel radio station.
We feel that this would give us a change from what we already now
experience in Grande Prairie, and I feel that as a fast‑growing community, the
families in our fast‑growing community and the affluence that they are all
facing now, there needs to be a stronger moral support in many hurting families
and especially in our younger age.
3899
In our business we feel that we would use it as an advertising lever as
well. I also feel that there are
many Gospel artists that do not have the opportunity in presenting their talents
in a radio station such as they would have in a Gospel radio
station.
3900
There are many Gospel jamborees in the area and they are well
attended. In fact, they are
out ‑‑ oversold and it is Gospel jamboree and people are attending them
very easy.
3901
I trust that you would seriously consider this application for Grande
Prairie as we really feel that the alternative is
necessary.
3902
We want to thank you for your time and our presentation. Thank you.
3903
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Balisky.
3904
Mr. LaRochelle.
INTERVENTION
3905
MR. LaROCHELLE: Good
morning, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners and CRTC staff. My name is Lorne LaRochelle. I'm a local resident of Grande Prairie
since 1994. I live there with my
wife and two children. We currently
own and operate Superior Car and Truck Washes.
3906
I would like to thank you for the opportunity of coming before you
today. There are many reasons why I
would like to see a Gospel radio station broadcasting for Grande
Prairie.
3907
First of all, I believe that it would add value to our Grande Prairie
community to have a radio station that emphasized and actively promoted a
lifestyle that reflects high moral standards. This would benefit the whole community
by sending a positive message and influence to teens, young adults and adults
alike.
3908
Secondly, such a radio station by virtue of its Gospel influence could
have programming that focuses on practical tools for everyday living. For example, by having programs aired
that give suggestions to parents on how to raise responsible children or how to
strengthen relationships in the family and community. We all need that.
3909
The third reason is that I believe there are many individuals who would
enjoy the type of music that such a radio station would air. Again, this type of music tends to be
positive and uplifting. I enjoy it
and I know of hundreds of others who feel the same.
3910
The fourth reason is as a local resident and businessman such a radio
station would provide a much‑needed venue for advertising. I would love to advertise in such a
positive and uplifting environment.
3911
I trust that you will give very serious consideration for this request
for a Gospel radio station in Grande Prairie. I will definitely be a supporter of it
and, again, I thank you for your time.
Thank you.
3912
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. LaRochelle.
3913
Commissioner Cram.
3914
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you. Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
3915
And I apologize. My father
never remembered my first name so I'm very bad at names. The gentleman in the blue shirt, one of
10 children; what was your name again?
I'm sorry.
3916
MR. BALISKY: Dan, Dan
Balisky.
3917
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Mr.
Balisky.
3918
You were talking about Gospel jamborees and you were talking about the
Grande Prairie region, are you?
3919
MR. BALISKY: Yes,
yes.
3920
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Can you
tell me the number of jamborees during any given year?
3921
MR. BALISKY: Well, I know
that there are two in the area. The
biggest is in Beaver Lodge, Alberta which is about 30 kilometres from Grande
Prairie.
3922
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And do
you go to them?
3923
MR. BALISKY: Yes, attended
them every year.
3924
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And how
many people would there be there?
3925
MR. BALISKY: Well, I know
that there is about 300 trailers so I don't know how many
people.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3926
MR. BALISKY: I think up to
4,000 people.
3927
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Oh,
okay. Thank you very much. Sorry for not noting your
name.
3928
MR. BALISKY: That's
fine.
3929
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr.
Langford.
3930
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
3931
This question is to any or all of you. It's just a kind of general
question.
3932
We have licensed a number of Christian music stations across Canada and
some include as well religious broadcasting. You know, they do church services on
Sunday and some have what they call brokered programming where they actually
sell some of their airtime to ministries, some from the States, some from Canada
who want to get their message across and we have no problem with that. I mean, I think people should hear the
messages they want.
3933
But what we try to encourage and, in fact, what we insist on is what we
call a balance in those messages so that along with a Christian perspective you
perhaps hear some values from other religions, the idea being that people in the
community ‑‑ the general idea being that the people out in the community
who aren't Christians but have their own values, have their own religions but
perhaps are not numerous enough to have their own radio station, at least get
their views aired and that builds a kind of tolerance or the hope is it will
build a kind of tolerance.
3934
I just wondered if any of you would like to comment on that, how you
would feel about that radio station adding that kind of element to their
programming?
3935
MR. BALISKY: I think there
are many denominations that would make use of it. We are not the owners or operators. We wouldn't have the right in saying
what type of programs they would have, but I would not be opposed to have some
alternatives and different balances as you indicated.
3936
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Anybody else? How about you with your children? Do you think that would be good for them
to get this kind of perspective?
3937
MR. BIEGEL: Yes. I would certainly be in favour. If it was my station I would be in
favour of creating a balance of that nature. Certainly, their being open to other
persuasions, I think, is acceptable as far as I'm
concerned.
3938
MR. LaROCHELLE: I think I
have a common goal. With our
business we are here to build the community and this to me is just another
avenue to build, build into the lives of the people in the
community.
3939
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you very much, Mr. Chair. Those are
my questions.
3940
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
3941
Thank you very much, gentlemen.
3942
Mrs. Secretary.
3943
THE SECRETARY: I would now
call on the next panel of five supporting intervenors to come forward: Grande Prairie and District
Multicultural Association, Mr. or Miss Someh Niengor ‑‑ sorry for the
spelling ‑‑ Mamawenowak Society, Ms Darlene Cardinal; Christopher Thiessen
from the Arts Culture Heritage and Musical Festival; Justin Staffen and Arjun
Roy and Geoffrey Whittall from the Grande Prairie Regional
College.
‑‑‑
Pause
3944
THE SECRETARY: We will start
with the Grande Prairie and District Multicultural
Association.
3945
If you could please introduce yourself before you speak and perhaps spell
out your name for the record if it is different than what is in the agenda? Thank you.
INTERVENTION
3946
MS NIENGOR: Good
morning. My name is Someh Niengor
and if you have a problem memorizing it or remembering it, it rhymes with
"Sunny" but with an "m" and you spell it S‑o‑m‑e‑h N‑i‑e‑n‑g‑o‑r.
3947
I was born and raised in Grande Prairie. I presently work at the Grande Prairie
and District Multicultural Association as the DiverseCity Project
Coordinator.
3948
In 2004 a community needs assessment was done in Grande Prairie and
surrounding area. The study was
funded by Alberta Human Rights and Multiculturalism Education Grant
program. The project enabled the
understanding of issues faced by visible minorities, aboriginal people,
newcomers and immigrants to Grande Prairie. Key findings from that study showed that
racism and discrimination shows up most frequently in social interactions,
employment and in local schools.
From these findings key perceived strategies were introduced and this
project was named the DiverseCity Project.
The project focuses on three components of our community: the corporate sector; the educational
sector and the public through a public awareness campaign.
3949
The reason I am here today is because I believe that Sun FM's mandate to
the community is in line with our mission at the Grande Prairie and District
Multicultural Association and if granted the opportunity they would use their
new radio station "Mercury" to continue to advocate and to help and to support
the disenfranchised in our city.
Through Sun FM they have established themselves as a reliable,
trustworthy and irreplaceable source by creating awareness around social
issues. They acknowledge their
social responsibility by advocating for the voiceless. An example of this would be "Kev's Kids"
which has impacted many children and many families from diverse
backgrounds.
3950
It is because of their sensibility and sensitivity to community issues
that I felt comfortable in approaching Tom Bedore and Katy O'Connor about the
issues we are facing at the multicultural association and, indeed, they were
receptive.
3951
Our community is small and to the extent unexposed to diversity and
different cultures. Immigrants and
visible minorities from many different backgrounds are pouring into Canada and
into Grande Prairie. As a result
it's causing a clash and ignorance of different value systems, perspectives and
beliefs and it's creating a misunderstanding between cultures which leads to
fear and ignorance which in turn leads to intolerance.
3952
In partnership with Sun FM's team, we have begun creating and airing
stories of discrimination online on Mercury. One of the stories highlights an
aboriginal youth receiving a new bike for his birthday. The first time he rides his bike he
overhears someone say "that bike must be stolen". That youth no longer rides his bike and
he no longer wants to claim his aboriginal heritage.
3953
I am confident by continuing to air the stories of discrimination on
Mercury we will be creating awareness about the impact of racism on
individuals.
3954
As I said before, I grew up in Grande Prairie and went to school there as
well. My brother and I used to walk
to school with each other every day.
At that time our elementary school was across from a junior high
school. Everyday on our pathway to
school there was a group of about 15 youth that used to hail racial slurs upon
us. These hurtful words reminded us
everyday that we were different and that we didn't belong. It stripped us of our self‑worth, our
self‑esteem and it dampened our human spirit.
3955
One day I was home after school and my brother's friends rode their bikes
up our driveway. I could see right
away that they were absolutely distraught.
Tears and mud had dried to their faces. I knew something serious had
happened. They informed me that my
brother had been hit by a van downtown about three blocks from our house. I took off, running downtown right
away. When I arrived at the scene
there was about 30 people crowded around, including the kids that used to harass
us. I pushed my way through the
crowd and was completely unprepared for what I was about to see. My brother was lying unconscious in the
middle of the road. His clothes had
been cut off. His arms and legs
were broken. His head was busted
open against the pavement as he lay in the pool of his bodily fluids. I completely lost it and I went down on
my knees in grief and complete anguish overtook me. In that moment, though, a beautiful
thing happened. A girl from the
group that used to make fun of us ‑‑ when I had no one else she came and
she put her arms around me. In a
single moment as our bodies touched and forgiveness and compassion overtook us,
as the colour of our skin and our differences melted away, through tragedy and
deep sadness we both realized that together we are part of one race, the human
race.
3956
I feel that any program and event or in this case a radio station that is
willing to promote diversity, multiculturalism and combat racism and
discrimination should be seriously considered. The new station Mercury has made it
their mandate to break down barriers.
3957
Please approve their application so together we can reaffirm Canada's
vision to eliminate racism and build a society where one's heritage and
individuality is a source of pride and inspiration.
3958
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
3959
MS CARDINAL: Tansi. Happy
National Aboriginal Day. Today is
National Aboriginal Day.
3960
My name is Darlene Cardinal, President of Mamawenowak Society and also
the sole proprietor for Dar Car Developments.
3961
I am a resident of Grande Prairie and have longed for a station that
would hear the voices of aboriginal people.
3962
Mamawenowak Society promotes the education of the rich aboriginal
cultural heritage to showcase the talents of the aboriginal people by hosting a
talent show of jigging, fiddling and vocal talents. We have hosted a workshop to educate
non‑aboriginal people.
3963
In the Grande Prairie area I am recognized as one of the aboriginal
elders. Today is National
Aboriginal Day which we celebrate and educate our brothers and sisters. I was scheduled to teach a cultural
workshop at Hythe High School today and I cancelled because I felt being an
intervenor for the application of a new radio station is very important and
explained to the organizations that this would be beneficial to the aboriginal
people. There is a growing
population of aboriginal people in Grande Prairie and they are coming from all
parts of Canada.
3964
It is my understanding that the proposed radio station has committed to
ensure that aboriginal voices, music, stories and news will be a part of regular
programming of the station. What a
wonderful and meaningful milestone for our community to have finally met. This station could play a major and
pivotal role in addressing racism and breaking down barriers within our
north‑western communities.
Presently, there is no radio station in the region even attempting to
meet these goals. With this new
radio station we can.
3965
Throughout history as well as in the present day, aboriginal news either
does not make mainstream media or it is grossly inaccurate and in some cases
downright racist. The stories
behind standoffs, land claims and settlements are not shared, leaving the
general public to fall into a trap of looking at aboriginal peoples through
negative stereotypes and coming to uneducated conclusions of the issues. To have a radio station sharing educated
and unbiased views is not only a dream of aboriginal people but I believe it is
a dream of all Canadians.
3966
As well, in regards to educating our aboriginal youth, they need to hear
voices from our communities on the radio.
This, I feel, would go a long way in ensuring aboriginal pride and help
our people to raise up and hold their heads high. The sharing of stories and culture would
also be an exemplary tool in supporting the non‑aboriginal community in
learning, understanding and sharing in our rich culture. Everyone would win and be encouraged to
move forward together.
3967
In regards to entertainment there are many very talented artists who do
not get a chance or airtime on mainstream radio. Singing and drumming is an ancient art
form within aboriginal culture that has always been meant to be shared. We as aboriginal people would be most
honoured to finally have the opportunity to share our gifts within the
mainstream.
3968
As well, many of our communities have very talented contemporary rock,
pop, rock and roll, hip hop and alternative artists and have received
recognition and accolades in the U.S.A. but are basically unheard of here at
home. Some examples of these
musicians are Medicine Dream, The Richard Gaucher Band, Brian Taylor, Red Fish,
The Black Bird, Wheels of Fire, Kath and the Tom Kats and my son, Stoneface, et
cetera. That's my son's
band.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
3969
MS CARDINAL: Sun FM has been
a great support to the aboriginal community with what they have on hand. They have been very obliging in making
community announcements of our events, conferences, National Aboriginal Day
celebrations and so on. In the past
they have emceed the Spirit Seekers conference and have supported requests that
we have made.
3970
Sun FM has been a willing partner and we sincerely believe this will
continue once the new radio is up and running.
3971
Sun FM has been beneficial but the new radio would be a new flavour and
once the news is out the people will make that effort to listen to the new
station.
3972
Mamawenowak has submitted a proposal to the City of Grande Prairie to
celebrate the fiftieth anniversary in 2010. The proposal that was submitted was to
tie in with the city's celebration and National Aboriginal Day by having a week
long of hosting a Métis celebration and pow wows. Speaking to Tom about these great events
has been noted and mentioned that they would like to promote the events. This new station will be inclusive to
our voice.
3973
On behalf of the Mamawenowak Society (Gathering of People) I thank the
panel for hearing our voices and to take great consideration in bringing to us
the station that will make new roads and bring forth positive changes for the
people in northern Alberta.
3974
Thank you.
3975
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Ms Cardinal.
3976
Mr. Thiessen.
INTERVENTION
3977
MR. THIESSEN: Good day,
ladies and gentlemen of the panel.
3978
In case it is still misspelled on your pages, it is Thiessen
T‑h‑i‑e‑s‑s‑e‑n, and I thank you for taking the time in having me here today to
speak on behalf of Tom Madore and Mary Driver's team application efforts in
operating Mercury Radio as the new commercial FM station to serve the Peace
Region.
3979
As I said earlier, I am Chris Thiessen and I'm a local promoter for music
in the Peace Region. I also serve
as the public relations coordinator of the Grande Prairie Regional College
Students Association. On top of
that, I am also the master vision and production coordinator for a local
not‑for‑profit music genre festival entitled "Peace Starts at Home" which raises
money for various shelters, charities and local music programs within the Grande
Prairie and Peace Region area.
3980
The reason I am here in support of the Sun FM group's application has
everything to say about the people who are there from the DJs to the accounts
team to creative and right up to management. All these people have throughout the
years and, in my most recent involvement with Sun FM over the past few years,
shown an integritous commitment to cultivating the music scene and artistic
growth and exposure of our local talents.
3981
To speak of this, when I first approached Sun FM in advertising for the
Peace Starts At Home Festival and approached them in regards to the Battle of
the Bands promotional fundraising concepts I was greeted with buoyant excitement
and positivity in my initial meeting with Brenda McFadden of the Accounts and
Kristy Ravindall of Creative. But
however, as is the case with most relationships, as rosy as our courtship was in
the beginning, actions in the past came to bite me in the behind as in the weeks
prior to the meeting, I had the opportunity to promote our event by word of
mouth on stage at a Battle of the Bands at the Howler Student Lounge at the GPRC
and in attendance that evening was a local beer representative from Labatts who
liked the gist of the idea so much that he approached a group of bars in the
Peace Region and took the idea as is own.
3982
When I informed Brenda and Kristy that day of our battle dates the colour
seemed to drop from their faces at the same time as it did in the room as when I
informed them that when we were planning to run our shows, they informed me that
they recently had a paid contractual obligation to the Labatt group to promote
their battle in Fort St. John and Peace River at the same time as the Peace
Starts at Home battle dates were going on.
Obviously, I was disappointed and I left and sought out other advertising
with another broadcaster in CKUA.
3983
But as chance would have it, the Labatts promotion folded and a week
before we started running our Battle of the Bands promotion I received a phone
call from Brenda McFadden very excited and asking if I still wanted to promote
through Sun FM in regards to the Battle of the Bands. In order to make up for lost time and
showing a true belief in what I was trying to accomplish in the City of Grande
Prairie they gave me a three for one price matching of what I paid for at CKUA,
provided band interviews twice a week of the bands participating in the Peace
Starts at Home, played their music on the radio station as well as volunteered
many of their hours from the DJs side of their group to judging and making sure
that the Peace Starts at Home was efficiently
run.
3984
I have also had the opportunity of working with Sun FM in promoting other
events such as Heritage Days with the Grande Prairie and District Multicultural
Association last year and reviving it for the first time in seven years, as well
as promoting the touring independent talents that come through the Peace Region
as well as numerous college events at which I work for the Grande Prairie
Regional College. Of all these, Sun
FM has shown the same courtesy in providing numerous airtime spots for all the
talents that have participated.
3985
My thoughts on Sun FM's application for local talent in our community and
in having Mercury as their new radio station and why I feel it is the best
application that is presented is because what I find is a common consensus in my
travels around Grande Prairie is that Sun FM is stretched very thin in how much
airtime they have to promote everything that the people want from pop rock to
rock to new music to programming that promotes the actual bands themselves. There is just not enough hours in a week
to provide it through one radio station and they have shown over the past two
years of my involvement with them that they are a very capable group that is
willing to get behind new music and are very capable of running and organizing
that as well as another station.
3986
I have had the opportunity in the past to work with them on their
independent spotlights, which is known as "Beaver Tales" on Sunday in Grand
Prairie, and I'm very excited about their proposal to run a feature independent
interview and talent show on the Monday through Friday programming at the 11:30
that is proposed in their application.
It gives the people of Grande Prairie, at least the musicians and the
independent talents more time to promote themselves and be heard and
seen.
3987
In regards to them contributing to the area talent development workshops
within Grande Prairie, I think that is a great opportunity for all the artists
in our community to learn how to properly promote, market and create their music
so that they may be heard and can move their voice out throughout our country
and also provides them a valuable opportunity in the approach of grant writing
when it comes to certain organizations like
FACTOR.
3988
And in saying FACTOR, as another part of their application, their
seven‑year contribution to FACTOR forms for Alberta artists is also a great
asset to the people in northern Alberta, at least the musicians as well; in
regards to the fact that as a former band manager of two bands in Grande Prairie
and seeking out FACTOR funding, I realize that it is very hard to get the
necessary supply of the demand, I guess, of the dollars that are available
through FACTOR. Most Alberta
artists are overlooked for people in Ontario, Quebec; as well as British
Columbia in regards to the statistics.
Just having that money available to Alberta artists gives all these
musicians a chance.
3989
In that regard too, and their proposal for the Rock the Peace CD and how
it can be used to benefit the entire community, as a whole it is a great
promotional tool, I believe, for all the bands to promote themselves as well as
each other and with the advent of new technology the bands can then take that
compilation CD as well and burn themselves a demo disk of two of their own songs
if they wish to promote themselves as themselves and get their voice out into
the community.
3990
In total, I do believe that the Mercury radio proposal is the best
proposal that is out there and I thank you for hearing me and for taking the
time to listen.
3991
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Thiessen.
3992
Mr. Roy and Mr. Staffen.
INTERVENTION
3993
MR. ROY: Good morning. Thank you very much for allowing us to
speak on behalf of Tom and Marie's team for the proposed licence for a new rock
station in Grande Prairie.
3994
I am Arjun and this is Justin.
We are both performing musicians, budding promoters and the co‑owners and
producers at our new studio in town.
Apart from these joint endeavours we are involved with music in other
capacities as well.
3995
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Excuse me.
3996
MR. ROY:
Yes?
3997
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Sorry, but I'm getting old.
Could you speak up just a little louder?
3998
MR. ROY: Oh,
definitely.
3999
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Thanks very much.
4000
MR. ROY: Perhaps I will do
that. Okay.
4001
So aside from those endeavours I also teach guitar lessons and I recently
started ‑‑ well, actually, a couple of years ago started a music publishing
company in order to help promote my work and that of others that I collaborate
with.
4002
MR. STAFFEN: My name is
Justin.
4003
I have been a progressive and contributing member of the music scene in
Grande Prairie for a long time promoting many shows for its benefit. I own a sound reinforcement company and
a recording studio for the past few years now, recently teamed up with Arjun,
and am constantly helping bands get their music heard.
4004
I used to teach film lessons in the past and plan to pick it up again in
the future. Sun FM has always been
a big part of the local music scene.
The annual star search they put on was always a big motivation for bands
to get good recordings. One of the
bands I was a part of (Bella Bella) had won the star search that Sun FM puts on
annually. The result of that was
mind altering; opening for major acts, money and lots of radio
play.
4005
One of the biggest tools a band can have is a radio station on their
side. Every band I have played in
has benefited greatly due to how important Sun FM feels the music scene
is.
4006
MR. ROY: For me, I have
courted success with my band on stage as well as on the radio. Thanks to Sun FM we have had two singles
on the air and we have been featured many times on their independent music shows
and due to Sun FM's support of those singles we were able to raise our profile
in town as well as in the surrounding areas and due exactly to that exposure we
were able to reach a huge demographic of fans that a hard rock band really
doesn't have access to. Since then,
we have gained a following of fans that runs the gamut from teens and tweens all
the way up to grownups and their parents.
4007
For all that success ‑‑ sorry ‑‑ however, the fact that we are
a hard rock band rather limits the avenues of possible radio play due to the
format of most stations. While Sun
FM has been kind to us and there are a lot of great bands in town whose music is
simply too heavy for any of the current formats, promotion on featured
Indie‑music themed shows is one thing but really getting a radio station behind
you and getting your songs on the air is really
unbeatable.
4008
Not only that but the way the musical climate has evolved in recent years
has created a huge demand for all sorts of rock music. A look at any list of charts always
turns up a variety of harder‑edged music making up a huge part of any
programming; classic rock guys like Wolf Mother and Sam Roberts; modern rockers
like Godsmack and, of course, Nickelback and even heavier music are popping up
on a much bigger level. Genres of
rock, metal and everything in between are enjoying success at a really
unprecedented scale and it's because of all that that Sun FM's proposed format
for the new radio station sits so well with us; a mixture of the rock music of
today and the support for local music is exactly what listeners need right
now.
4009
Though the choice of music itself is a huge factor in separating this
application from the others, there are further reasons why we are here to
support this application. The
suggested support for the local music scene as well as the developmental ideas
to nourish the musicians within our scene is perhaps the biggest reason for our
support.
4010
Firstly, Mercury FM would have more of an emphasis on playing local
content. As we mentioned earlier,
there are a lot of bands whose music is of a very high standard, but the
heaviness of their work stands in the way of truly getting the bands heard. Mercury, being a rock‑oriented station,
would be a great place for the bands to start building some buzz and raising
their profile.
4011
Secondly, the proposed annual Rock the Peace compilation CD, funded by
the new station, featuring a selection of the area's bands, is a wonderful idea
that would be a great asset to any band and would go a long way to get their
music out for the people to enjoy.
Not only would the artists get their songs on disc, but their time spent
in a recording studio would be essential for the development of a well‑rounded
artist.
4012
While it's true that the compilation CD is not specific to any single
artist, the concept has been around for a long time from the record company
sampler discs ‑‑ sorry ‑‑ from the record company sampler discs from
the past to the proven success stories from the underground punk and hardcore
scenes of today. Such a compilation
CD would be a great promotional tool in the hands of the artists who will not
only be able to push themselves but an entire network of talented
musicians.
4013
MR. ROY: And lastly, the
proposed workshops put on in conjunction with ARIA would be invaluable in
helping the musicians to mobilize themselves in terms of publicity, promotion;
networking and even the recording and song writing processes. Justin and me have both been recording
for the past few years and we have been trying to put on shows. We have managed to pull it off but for
the most part it's been a learning process. If such workshops were set up to educate
the musicians the learning curve would increase exponentially and we would be
armed with all the tools necessary to help ourselves further our own
careers.
4014
And that's it. Thank you so
much.
4015
THE CHAIRPERSON: (Off mic)
Thank you, Mr. Roy. Thank you, Mr.
Staffen.
4016
Mr. Whittall?
4017
MR. WHITTALL: Good
morning. My name is Geoffrey
Whittal. I have been a music
instructor at Grande Prairie Regional College since 1990. Thank you for allowing me to speak on
behalf of Tom and Murray and their team's application for a new FM modern rock
station.
4018
I put several reasons for my support of this application in the letter
that I faxed to the CRTC, and I would like to amplify some of my comments. Sun FM has proven over the years to be
an excellent corporate citizen.
Their management has ensured that they are locally prominent, involved in
numerous causes of direct benefit to the community, and active in promoting
musical events and especially local musicians in Grande Prairie. These are all laudable reasons for
supporting this application.
4019
There are several additional reasons that cause me to provide support to
the Sun FM application.
4020
First, this application is the only one in this process that is focusing
a majority of airtime on the presentation of new rock music. Grande Prairie has a young population;
according to the 2001 national census our median age is slightly less than 30
years, while the median age across Canada is over 37. With an influx of young workers into the
oil patch in the past few years I expect that Grande Prairie's median age has
dropped even lower.
4021
Providing music that is aimed at a younger audience is significant in a
city such as ours. A radio station
that plays mainly new rock music is aimed at the right demographic in Grande
Prairie ‑‑ younger people who are actively searching out new music that
will become part of their lives, not older people looking backward to the music
of their youth.
4022
As a college music instructor who teaches courses in popular music, I
often hear my students commenting on the lack of opportunity to hear lots of
cutting edge music on local radio.
Radio stations act as gatekeepers, and in a small and isolated market
like Grande Prairie their effect is real and more significant than it would be
in a larger centre with more stations than Grande
Prairie.
4023
An average radio station in North America adds perhaps three new songs a
week to their playlists. For young
people who are interested in what is new, and that is a common situation in all
recent generations, this is a frustration.
Only three stations in this application process have indicated an intent
to broadcast a significant amount of new rock music. The Sun FM application is the only one
of those aiming top broadcast more than 30 percent new rock music. They are aiming for at least 60
percent. This will provide
listeners with a much greater chance to hear a significant amount of new
music.
4024
This is also consistent with their stated intent of funding new music
efforts by local and other musicians, in the form of funding for FACTOR and
ARIA. In contrast to others, this
funding is most appropriate in this application because it is for a station that
is planning to play a lot of new rock music. This sort of funding creates a
beneficial situation where it will help people attempting to successfully create
the music that is being programmed on the station. A modern rock focus and funding FACTOR
and ARIA logically go hand in hand.
A classic rock or classic hits focus and that sort of funding do not
logically go hand in hand.
4025
Sun FM has had significant news coverage for many years. The local newspaper covers local events
but not until the following day.
When Grande Prairie had a tornado in July 2004 Sun FM was covering it
live. When we had a water main
problem in the fall of 2005 once again Sun FM was covering it live. They were my source of up‑to‑date
information about what I should be doing to deal with those
situations
4026
Sun FM is a music‑based radio station but when something critical happens
in our city their news reporting replaces the music. In other words, they have live reports
when they would normally be airing music.
This becomes particularly important in a community like Grande Prairie
that has only two radio stations and no local television stations. Breaking news is firmly in the domain of
radio.
4027
Plans in this application are for a three‑person news team. When added to the news services already
provided by Sun FM, this will provide the combined stations with a greater
ability to cover sports, local news, emergencies, cultural events and
more.
4028
Along with the material in the letter I wrote supporting this
application, the aspects that I have spoken of today are substantive reasons why
Sun FM's application for a new station should be supported. The music to be broadcast will be
appropriate to the young and changing nature of our region's population, the
funding plans for this application are most appropriate and beneficial to
working, not retired, i.e. classic hits musicians, and news coverage that is
already very good on Sun FM should expand and improve with the addition of a new
voice for news in Grande Prairie.
4029
Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak
here.
4030
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
4031
Mr. Williams.
4032
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr.
Whittall, where do your students find the cutting edge music you refer to
now?
4033
MR. WHITTALL: They find a
small portion of it on Sun FM. They
are also hitting a lot of internet sites, Pitchfork Media, My Space and the
various other sort of networking areas and new media
sites.
4034
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank
you.
4035
Ms Cardinal, are there aboriginal radio stations broadcasting into your
region now?
4036
MS CARDINAL: No (spoken off
mic).
4037
Sorry. No, there is ‑‑
not that I know of. I haven't heard
one. I know there is one in Lac
Laberge but it doesn't reach Grande Prairie at
all.
4038
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay.
4039
MS CARDINAL: And the only
one that we watch is APTN. That is
on TV, but then you don't hear nothing about the Grande Prairie and there is
no ‑‑ I haven't watched anything about showcasing any of the aboriginals in
our area.
4040
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay. Thank you for that,
and happy National Aboriginal Day to you, Ms Cardinal.
4041
MS CARDINAL: Yes, and I know
it's National Aboriginal Day today but Mamawenowak celebrates ‑‑ we
celebrate it on June 25th which is the fourth Sunday, which we respect the four
powers and the four directions. So
it's at Muskoseepi Park on Sunday ‑‑ a little promo
here.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4042
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In
the north we celebrate it on the longest day, June 21st,
today.
4043
MS CARDINAL: That's true,
and I am one of the signators that signed in Ottawa and I really fought for June
21st, but then when we started thinking about the attendance ‑‑ so we were
looking at the family and being aboriginal is very family‑oriented in our
beliefs and values. So we planned
on having it on the fourth direction, fourth Sunday and this way the families,
the parents and the school children are able to attend whereas 2010 is June
21st. So it just falls in perfect
there.
4044
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay. Well, in spite of your
wise counsel, your spirit and enthusiasm make me think you must be a very young
elder.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4045
MS CARDINAL: Well, I'm on
the sixties there with a very young spirit.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4046
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
4047
Mrs. Cugini.
4048
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Good
morning and thank you all for taking the time to come to Edmonton to make your
presentations. Please repeat your
last name. I don't want to
mispronounce it. I'm used to having
my last name mispronounced but you know I just want to be able to pronounce your
name properly.
4049
MS NIENGOR:
Niengor.
4050
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Gor?
4051
MS NIENGOR:
Yes.
4052
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Niengor
is your complete last ‑‑
4053
MS NIENGOR: Like
g‑w‑a‑r.
4054
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Oh,
Gwar, right, thank you.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4055
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Do you
have the ethnic makeup of the Grande Prairie region?
4056
MS NIENGOR: I
don't.
4057
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: You do
not at this ‑‑
4058
MS NIENGOR: I don't have
that with me. We know that over 100
different countries are represented in Grande Prairie. We also have about 16 different cultural
groups in Grande Prairie.
4059
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And do
you have any sense of what is the predominant ethnic group in the
region?
4060
MS NIENGOR: Predominant
ethnic group would, of course, be aboriginal.
4061
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
Right.
4062
MS NIENGOR: And then
Somalians as well are a growing cultural group in Grande
Prairie.
4063
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And I
understand that from what we have heard over the past two days that there aren't
a lot of media outlets in Grande Prairie to promote your activities and that you
are basically 100 percent reliant on radio at this point because I understand
there is no local newspaper and no daily newspaper in the area and certainly no
television station.
4064
What has been your experience with the other radio station in the
area ‑‑ any of you ‑‑ in terms of promoting your activities,
sponsoring your events and so on?
4065
MR. THIESSEN: Well, in
regards to the Peace Starts at Home, outside of the radio advertising which has
been really beneficial to promoting the local music scene we do have a local
newspaper called the Daily Herald‑Tribune.
The lady there, Diana Rennie, she's really big on trying to promote the
arts and very much follows Tom and Murray's hearts in trying to promote the
local art scene.
4066
We also work very heavily with a bunch of graphic designers to create
posters which we plaster around the downtown area and sometimes people there
don't like it too, too much, but it's just to get the awareness around. But again, yes, we are pretty much 100
percent solely reliant on ourselves as well as whatever we are provided by the
radio.
4067
But in regards to CJXX we have not really approached CJXX in promoting
the rock scene since it is a country music station and my experience with CKUA
last year was that as much as they are big into promoting the festivals, I think
we were just too far north in Grande Prairie for them to really put any emphasis
on our goals and agendas with Peace Starts at Home and for promoting our artists
as they have an entire province to cover.
4068
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: What is
the attendance for your festival?
4069
MR. THIESSEN: Last year we
had about 600 people attend and this year in some of our Battle of the Band
shows we had upwards of 400 people attending, and that's a mixture between all
ages and no minor shows. We are
expecting it to grow this year to upwards of 1,000 to possibly 2,000 people down
in Muskoseepi Park being that it is a free event.
4070
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And how
many bands participate in the Battle of the
Bands?
4071
MR. THIESSEN: We have
12. This year I spoke to 25 and
last year I spoke to 16. So there
is definitely a growth ratio in the Grande Prairie and Peace Region area for new
bands and especially young bands who really learn a lot because we try to
diversify who is listening to them on our judging panels between business, our
representatives, teachers and just straight‑up bands and then people from the
music industry.
4072
What we are really looking to try to do with the event is to cultivate,
you know, their talent and allow them to get better by hearing the constructive
criticism of many different groups.
4073
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And are
they primarily rock bands?
4074
MR. THIESSEN: Yes, they are
primarily rock bands that are involved in the Battle of the Bands which is
called "Peace Begins With Us". That
is the fundraiser for the Peace Starts at Home festival which features a whole
litany of different genres that are represented in the Peace Region from reggae
to jazz to country to folk to ‑‑ well, this year we are going to feature a
haircut as well which really doesn't fit into a genre of music but ensures
entertainment.
4075
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: So it
is a pretty diverse array of music genres that are represented in the Grande
Prairie area?
4076
MR. THIESSEN: Very much
so. It seems like there is this
artistic magnet that has just come into Grande Prairie over the past few years
because we have a lot of really talented people coming out of the woodwork from
everywhere, from B.C., from Toronto, from Newfoundland, you know, from all
across Alberta simply because of the growing population and the workforce
ability to find themselves a decent paying job and
employment.
4077
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: That
always helps.
4078
MR. THIESSEN:
Yes.
4079
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank
you.
4080
Miss Cardinal, you wanted to add something?
4081
MS CARDINAL: Yes. We have approached the other ‑‑
CJXX ‑‑ and we didn't quite get a good response. But I'm also coming in from the
aboriginal side, is that we ask which stations do our advertising and one of the
comments a couple of times I have received that the aboriginal people's
self‑esteem, values and you know the dysfunctions that we are having. And one of the stereotypes that we keep
hearing is cowboys and Indians and thinking that CJXX is country so they were
trying to avoid that, you know, and I know a lot of aboriginal people do listen
to country music and there are a lot of country artists,
aboriginal.
4082
So we have to eliminate or downsize the comments. So we have gone to Sun FM and had all
our advertising done through them, but this last year, May 14th, we had a
fundraiser for Mamawenowak for Mothers Day brunch and they did advertise,
announce on the radio for us. So we
are not ‑‑ you know, we are giving everybody a fair
chance.
4083
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank
you, thank you. Those are my
questions.
4084
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr.
Whittall, you mentioned in your presentation this morning that you have studied
a number of the applications that are on this record and one of the questions
that we have debated over the last couple of days is how many stations, how many
new stations could Grande Prairie support.
The general view by the applicants was two and some thought about even a
third one of a specialty nature.
4085
If the Commission was to grant more than one licence have you thought
about another format that will also meet anybody else's goals or answer to
that ‑‑ another format than the one presented by Mercury that will
complement the radio offering in Grande
Prairie?
4086
MR. WHITTALL: Yes, I have,
actually. From my perspective, just
about anything else would fit.
Honestly, I can't comment on the business model of where things would
overlap in the sense of adding new genres of music. My perspective is that the more choice
we have; the more opportunity we have to listen to different music the
better.
4087
So in addition to rock if it was classic hits or easy rock I don't see
that that would be an issue or a confusion for listeners. I think it would just add to the
richness of the region and provide people with more
choice.
4088
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
4089
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your
presentation.
4090
Miss Secretary.
4091
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
4092
I will now call on the next panel of five intervenors to come forward,
and I would ask Mr. Connell of the Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival; Arlene
Miller; Doug W. Crerar from the Grande Prairie Regional College; Greg King and
Mike Townsend.
‑‑‑ Pause
4093
THE SECRETARY: We will start
with Mr. William Connell of the Canadian Rocky Mountain
Festival.
4094
I would like to remind you that you have 10 minutes for your
presentation. Thank
you.
INTERVENTION
4095
MR. CONNELL: Mr. Chairman
and members of the Commission, thank you for allowing me to appear before you
this morning.
4096
I'm here in support of the Jim Pattison Broadcast Group's application for
an FM licence in Grande Prairie.
Although I support this application, the main reason for my appearance
before you is to emphasize the importance of the Save the Music Foundation which
is an integral part of this application.
Let us be quite clear. This
is not just a project that satisfies the requirements of this application. This foundation which will develop
Canadian talent goes far beyond that.
4097
The Save the Music Foundation has the potential to change music and music
education in the provinces of Alberta and British Columbia. By supporting music education you will
improve the quality and the volume of Canadian talent but, as you will also
hear, improving music programs will do much
more.
4098
The purpose of this foundation is not to provide plans to operate music
programs. That is a responsibility
of our provincial governments which hopefully will see fit to increase funding
to education in our provinces. The
Save the Music Foundation will enhance and enrich music programs by supporting
new incentives for teachers and students, by developing new learning and
performance programs and by instituting new performance opportunities to help
develop Canadian talent.
4099
All of these initiatives will of course meet the Commission's criteria
for developing Canadian talent. The
Save the Music Foundation will operate at arms length from the Pattison
Broadcast Group with a board of directors in conjunction with the Canadian Rocky
Mountain Festival. This board of
directors will at all times be cognizant of the Commission's criteria and
operate the foundation within the rules of CTD.
4100
The Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival, now in its 15th year, takes place
annually at the band centre. This
festival is one of the most respected and prestigious festivals in Canada. The festival will be an integral part of
the Save the Music Foundation and will give the foundation instant credibility
and acceptance by music programs across western
Canada.
4101
The foundation will utilize and enhance many of the programs presently
offered at the festival; programs such as TPDP which is a teacher's mentoring
program; clinic and performance programs for students and unique concert
opportunities for performing groups.
The financial support of the foundation will enable us to expand these
programs right across both provinces as well as add new incentives for travel
and performance and new programs such as the Best of the
West.
4102
The Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival has a proven track record in
developing Canadian talent.
Students who have attended this festival have gone on to a variety of
performance careers from performing with Maynard Ferguson's Big Band to Stella
Salido who was in Broadway production of Les Miserables; from Linda Brown who is
a permanent member of the Calgary Philharmonic Orchestra, to Russ Broom who is
Jann Arden's lead guitar player; from Pat Beliveau touring with the Dorsey Band,
to the Cherko Brothers who perform with Shania Twain.
4103
If you are serious about developing Canadian talent in the long term you
must get to the grassroots. You
must get to the music programs. You
must get to the music kids.
4104
A point I would like to stress is how encompassing this foundation will
be. The Canadian Rocky Mountain
Festival in a small way has developed talent every year working with three and a
half to 4,000 students annually.
This foundation has the potential of working with 300,000 students
annually. If you want to develop
Canadian talent there is no better way to do it than working with 300,000 music
students.
4105
Also, the foundation will be supporting all forms of music both vocal and
instrumental. Every genre of music
will be affected from pop to rock, from jazz to classical, from folk to
country.
4106
When the Save the Music Foundation starts to take effect you will see a
growth of strong music programs. As
teachers improve programs will become more successful which will in turn attract
more students. With the help of the
foundation we may see four or even 500,000 kids involved in music programs in
our two provinces. As this pool of
music students grows so too will the volume and the quality of Canadian
talent.
4107
Across North America only 3,000 ‑‑ or excuse me ‑‑ only 3
percent of music students become professional musicians. The other 97 percent of music students
may not be performers but they will have a strong influence on the radio
broadcast industry. It is a
documented fact that music students listen to music 50 percent more than
non‑music students. Not only do
they listen to more music, they also listen to a much greater variety of
music. It is these music students
that will listen to the radio far more than their peers. With the support of the Save the Music
Foundation not only will you see an increase in Canadian talent but you will
also see an increase in the listening program because of these music
students.
4108
The Save the Music Foundation, like the Canadian Rocky Mountain Festival,
will be a living organization which will adjust and adapt to the needs of young
musicians. We will develop new
programs tailored to helping those young superstars. We will work in partnership with school
districts and community and church organizations and parents and students. Unlike other incentives such as CARA and
CADME and private organizations such as the Mannix Foundation, which we applaud,
this foundation will have set programs and long term
goals.
4109
With your approval of this application and if we do our job, my belief is
that this foundation will be around long after we are
gone.
4110
In conclusion, the Save the Music Foundation is unlike anything that has
been proposed before. This is not
merely a funding organization. This
is a music education development program to help develop Canadian talent. The potential of this foundation is
immense. Please do not let this
pass by.
4111
Thank you.
4112
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
4113
Ms Miller.
INTERVENTION
4114
MS MILLER: Thank you to the
CRTC for this opportunity. I am
excited to be here as it is not often an average Canadian is granted the
opportunity to speak to the issuing of a new radio licence for northern
Alberta. Good
morning.
4115
My name is Arlene Miller and I have worked and lived in Grand Prairie for
over 35 years. I am part of the
business community as I am involved in no less than 11 small businesses. I have raised and schooled my children
in this centre for the north. I
have watched it grow from a small town to a regional centre. I am proud to be a part of this
community that we call Grande Prairie.
4116
My family and I believe in contribution and giving back to the community
we earn our living in. I have held
board positions on the Downtown Association, the Grande Prairie Chamber of
Commerce, the Grande Prairie Regional College Foundation, as well as I am a past
member of the Opera Broadcast Association.
I also believe in the motto "Service Above Self", the motto of my Rotary
Club.
4117
During the past year some of the causes that my family and I have been a
part of include The Big Toy Box, a charity that gives toys to needy children at
Christmas; the Relay for Life, a 24‑hour cancer relay; Kids With Cancer; the
Community Foundation of Greater Grande Prairie and the Food
Bank.
4118
CJXX Radio and the Pattison Group are involved in the causes that I have
mentioned. They don't judge an
event or cause on its sexiness or how it serves them but how it serves our
community.
4119
I am also very proud of my accomplishments as a broadcaster for over a
decade as the general manager of CJXX Radio. In this capacity I was asked to attend a
think tank session for the Grande Prairie Public School Board in the early 1990s
during these government cutbacks.
4120
Therefore, I feel I can speak to the social and economic fabric and
structure of our community and its future
needs.
4121
As I mentioned, in the 1990s the provincial government cut funding to
education to everything except essential academic programs. Music programs throughout the school
system were eliminated.
4122
I can't tell you how impressed I am to see a western‑based initiative of
the Pattison Group and how they support children and music. How does a talented kid from western
Canada who is gifted in music know how to access funds without programs like
this? How can the broadcast
industry support itself or more importantly the music industry in Canada if we
are not constantly developing an interest in music? This application helps to create and
sustain Canadian talent.
4123
The second point in the application is the commitment to news and the
spoken word. I hear time and time
again from the average Canadian or the average citizen of Grande Prairie that
they wish the news lasted more than 30 seconds and broadcast had more local
information. It seems to be the
wish of the people of northern Alberta that radio be an information medium. A wise broadcaster once said, "If you
can't be international you have to be a local". In Grande Prairie we can't be
international. We have to be
local.
4124
The spoken word and news commitment in this application is far and above
all the other applications before you.
Its local content serves as a bridge, bringing together all the elements
that make Grande Prairie the greatest place to be. And by the way, "The Greatest Place To
Be" is the City of Grande Prairie's slogan.
4125
It is a privilege to be granted a broadcast licence by the CRTC and it is
my opinion as a former broadcaster and, more importantly, a citizen of northern
Alberta, a wife, a mother and a grandmother that the granting of a licence to
the Pattison Group is a mutually‑beneficial relationship with the broadcaster
and the community. We in the
community support this application and they in turn have shown their support and
commitment in their application.
4126
Thank you.
4127
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mrs. Miller.
4128
Mr. Crerar.
4129
MR. CRERAR: Thank you very
much. My name is Doug
Crerar.
4130
Thank you very much, bonjour, tansi and thank you for the opportunity to
speak here.
4131
I teach history and native studies at Grande Prairie Regional
College. I have been a writer and
educator there for 16 years and want to start with my own roots in rural Ontario
because I was raised one of the demographics, still remembering being raised in
the one‑room schoolhouse in the country south of Ottawa, where radio became an
avenue to national, regional and international perspectives. We had the advantage south of Ottawa of
having both CBC and CFRA which was a very different station than it is now,
famous then for its rock music; wide, comprehensive news coverage and, of
course, the incendiary open line show by Lowell Green.
4132
The point here, though, is that when I moved to Grande Prairie I
discovered a radio station equally committed to regional coverage which had
interest in news, public affairs and in‑depth reportage. It was very exciting to discover
actually that both stations had a reputation for this and I did ‑‑ at times
was consulted and acted as an interviewee on Sun FM, originally known as CFGP,
but in the mid‑1990s as that station moved into its current configuration I
discovered there was more interest in accessing faculty to comment on public
affairs and more interest in broad news‑making reportage coming from the
Pattison Group CJXX.
4133
My relationship with the radio began in a community that saw radio as a
connection and as more than entertainment and it continues in my commitment to
what the Pattison Group is proposing to do here and what they have already
done.
4134
The role of a radio station in our region is that of a morning
paper. This station in particular
has done an excellent job of providing the kind of news that is not canned or
packaged or provided by commercial news or wire services but actually has a news
desk. The station has a news desk
with reporters and the news director is in fact an educated individual with a
wide interest in world affairs, regional affairs and provincial
affairs.
4135
As a result, what we need in Grande Prairie is a station which has the
function of a morning paper to bring people as they prepare for work, school or
other occupations to provide both the local events and some regional coverage
but also to connect the world with our region and to access local individuals
often in the community or in the academic community of the college who can
provide commentary, in‑depth explanations, who can actually ask and sharpen the
questions for community discussion that need to be
done.
4136
For example, the role of the newsroom here is to bring resource people
from the region to the attention and to the perspective of the regional listener
so that they have access to follow up with them perhaps through the college or
other institutions, something that I was able to do myself with CFRA and which I
know individuals in the Peace Region can do with CJXX.
4137
It links, therefore, the people of the region with the news, with the
world and with a perspective that our citizens need to make effective
contributions as informed members of our community, questions
like:
4138
Why are we in Afghanistan?
4139
Are we the light infantry for the American empire?
4140
Are we in many ways a puppet state?
4141
Are we in fact irrelevant in the international community or is in fact
our pride we take in peacekeeping and other activities really a self‑indulgent
nostalgia or a self‑congratulation?
4142
How do we understand the concern of First Nations people across Canada
and in our own region and how do we understand and how do we deal with often
public statements by Canadian officials or by other officials we pick up on our
connections with American media on broad sweeping generalizations about land
claims and so on?
4143
The answer, of course, is that you can take what is provided in the
canned, pre‑packaged media coverage that can be purchased through wire services,
that can be repeated in the news in the Daily Herald‑Tribune which is about a
day or two behind what is reported in the radio and accessible immediately to
the listener, or one can also add value to that by engaging local individuals
who have some knowledge, travel and some expertise in those
areas.
4144
The point, then, is that without dependence on the wire services or
pre‑paraphrased pre‑packaged commentary, this station is a news provider as well
as a news purveyor to consumers, to audiences in the region and it is
heard. The feedback I receive, the
feedback others receive of the coverage for news and commentary from CJXX is
widely heard in the region and widely appreciated.
4145
CJXX has a track record, a track record which there is a commitment to
perpetuate and, I think in many ways, revise and improve in the new
application. They satisfy the
Broadcasting Act's concerns around Canadian cultural and social
objectives.
4146
This is Canadian interpretation of news. This is regional interpretation of
news. This is the linkage which
brings reporters from the station to hear people like Gwynne Dyer speak at our
college, to involve people in the region who are involved in various causes, to
have an audience in the region and to link the world through people living in
our region is well connected with the world despite its portrayal as an isolated
and rather northern in‑service region resource here as the wood and drawers of
water and pumpers of oil to the rest of the world.
4147
Actually, there is a number of people in the Peace Region who are
connected internationally through NGOs, through involvement in a number of other
causes and activities who brought their expertise to the Peace to enrich the
region and who are available for commentary, for advice and, in fact, in some
ways for criticism of what is often filtered through by the pre‑packaged media
available to most people on a commercial station which does not have a focus or
a commitment to accurate news.
4148
This valuable, in‑depth addition to standard news coverage allows the
vision of the Pattison Group to maintain their track record of in‑depth
reportage and to further improve it.
This convinces me that I want to offer support for
this.
4149
I think it's important to say that the college community is also
committed to this kind of vision and so I'm here to support the
application.
4150
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Crerar.
4151
Mr. King.
INTERVENTION
4152
MR. KING: Bonjour, tansi,
good morning and Happy Aboriginal Day.
My name is Greg King. I am
Métis and I am from the Métis Nation of Alberta and their education sector
advisor.
4153
I was originally supposed to be celebrating National Aboriginal Day today
but I took this morning off, if you will, to be here. The rest of my office is shutdown and
they have all gone out to Métis Crossing, which is our version of Fort Edmonton,
if you are familiar with Fort Edmonton, which is an historical site. It's northeast of here, near Smoky Lake,
one of the first settlements here in Alberta. They are sort of helping to paint the
barn and cut the grass and do that kind of thing today.
4154
So what would take me away from doing manual labour at actually something
that is quite a joy, a pride of our nation here in Alberta? That's something else. It is a shared vision. I think it's equally
important.
4155
But let me talk a little bit about who am I first. Well, I am a former teacher, used to be
physics and biology. I'm told those
aren't Métis subjects but I disagree.
4156
I come from a long line of proud Métis, proud aboriginal people, and
growing up and trying to find ways to sort of make ends meet and find my formal
education was a challenge. Well, it
comes down to dollars and cents sometimes trying to find the money and it's not
unique to Métis students. It's not
unique to Canadians in general.
4157
But what I found is that there weren't a lot of opportunities
specifically for Métis students.
There are millions of dollars set aside for aboriginal bursaries and so
forth but not many of them are Métis‑specific. In Alberta up to this point there has
only been one Alberta‑wide scholarship that has been made specific to Métis
students. There is an old saying
that the Métis are Canada's forgotten people; a little bit of truth to that, I
think, and that we sort of all get lumped together into this nebulous mass,
these Métis that are just sort of absorbed into this idea of
aboriginal.
4158
I sit on many boards. I have
had the opportunity to influence the social studies curriculum here in the
province and work quite closely with Alberta education to try and sort of dispel
this myth.
4159
Just a causal example ‑‑ I know it's not quite on topic, but it's
sort of why I am here ‑‑ talking about residential schools and how
aboriginal students weren't allowed to practice their religion or language but
for the Catholic Métis that was a little bit of a different experience. Not all Métis were Catholic and not all
Métis necessarily spoke French or English for that matter, but for those that
did they were not represented in that kind of thinking back and thinking about
aboriginals as this nebulous pan view of our group.
4160
The recognition that the Pattison Group has given already in one of its
affiliates down in Medicine Hat to and working with the Métis local there and
establishing its Métis‑specific scholarship has been very empowering for that
group and it is speaking to a need that isn't often addressed. So too they proposed to have in Grande
Prairie, set up a Métis scholarship to encourage Métis students to become
represented in the broadcast world.
4161
I'm here to speak on behalf of those future students and to encourage the
Chairman and Commissioner, other Commissioners and staff here to think carefully
about the investment that the Pattison Group is proposing. It's not just this investment alone, of
course. They are very committed to
investing in the community as a whole.
4162
But this kind of specific recognition is rare and private investment in
the community, especially our community, is rare too and it is something that we
have been working towards, to work with government and the private sector and
our own community to foster a greater sense of community and to really enrich
all of our lives.
4163
Just in closing, I would like to thank the Pattison Group for asking me
here to help support them and thank you, Chairman, and Commissioners, for
allowing me to speak here today.
4164
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. King.
4165
Mr. Townsend.
INTERVENTION
4166
MR. TOWNSEND: Yes, good
morning.
4167
I am Mike Townsend. I have
been a member of Music Alberta Board, Alberta Band Directors Association Board;
presently the secretary for Phi Beta Mu International Band Directors
Fraternity.
4168
I am a 35‑year band director in the Grande Prairie Public School District
and I have conducted the Grande Prairie Marching Band the same 35 years. I have been supervisor of the Grande
Prairie Public School District for the past 27 years.
4169
I have worked with Ken Norman and others at CJXX since the inception of
their station. They have always
been very supportive of what I do in the school district and in the community
with the marching band. These
people mean what they say and they can be relied upon to keep a
commitment.
4170
The main reason that I am supporting this application today is the
excitement about the Save the Music Foundation. It is of special interest to me, of
course. I have read the Appendix A
that has been supplied and I support all the ideas put forward in the Save the
Music Foundation.
4171
School music is a necessity, not a frill. School music is where music talent and
talent ID begins. Many of the
performing professionals in the music world today got their initial exposure and
developed their love of music through the school music program. There are some working bands in Alberta
today; Captain Tractor out of Edmonton; Emerson Drive. Both of these bands have musicians that
came through the Grande Prairie public and the Grande Prairie Catholic high
school system. A lead clarinet
player of the Edmonton Symphony Orchestra is one of my former
students.
4172
I believe that if we are going to create more of Canadian talent, working
Canadian talent out there, we need to expand the base. We need to expand it down at the bottom,
not at the top, and the efforts through the Save the Music Foundation is going
to do that.
4173
Save the Music Foundation is a western Canada project. It is aimed at the talent in the
west. It is being promoted by radio
stations in the west. These
stations, Pattison Group, have made a commitment to put back into their business
area funding to help develop future music talent and to keep music in the
schools. There is no other program
in Canada that I know of like that, that I have become aware of in the past 35
years.
4174
In closing, I have attended the Rocky Mountain Music Festival and can
attest to its value and to its worth.
Thank you.
4175
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Townsend.
4176
Commissioner Cram.
4177
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
4178
I'm sorry. I have been
writing people's names down so I don't ‑‑ but the first speaker, I didn't
hear your name.
4179
MR. CONNELL: Willie Connell,
Willie Connell.
4180
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Cong?
4181
MR. CONNELL:
Connell.
4182
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you.
4183
You said that music students listen to music 50 percent more than
non‑music students. Now, I have
heard about it raising your IQ by 10 points and that you get better in math and
I am living proof that that's not true.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4184
COMMISSIONER CRAM: But where
did this study come from? Can you
tell me the source?
4185
MR. CONNELL: Yes. I found that out through MENC, Music
Educators National Convention web page.
They link with all sorts of organizations, music organizations and that
is just one of you know many, many statistics and facts that are on that web
page.
4186
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And does
it ‑‑ like I was a classical musician. Would it mean that I would listen to
just classical music or does it mean that I listened to all different
genres?
4187
MR. CONNELL: No, it was
interesting. I was just at the
Music Educators National Convention in the United States three weeks ago and
there was a session on developing music with children and one of the presenters
there at that time said that what they had found out was that music students,
even although they may be studying in one area they are more apt to listen to
all forms of music than non‑music students.
4188
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So what
we need to do in order to address that demographic that is leaving radio and not
listening to it, which is high school kids, is teach them
music.
4189
MR. CONNELL:
Yes.
4190
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank you
very much.
4191
THE CHAIRPERSON: You are all
except Mrs. Arlene ‑‑ you are all educators and I would say Mrs. Cram
raised a good question. It's a fact
that in North America that the younger generation have left radio to get their
music from other means and those are at least the statistics and the outlet that
BBM provides us with and so over the years we have been able to make the
necessary comparison and the conclusion that the younger generation are
listening to iPods, to the internet and other means.
4192
Do you by your own ‑‑ because you seem to all have music activities,
have found out ways or suggestions to make to the broadcasters what they should
do to recuperate the younger generation and bring them back to radio ‑‑ any
one of you?
4193
MR. CRERAR: As a
non‑musician, although I have some skill with the tape recorder and the record
player and the mystical device called the CD, my experience with students in
general is that they are actually by nature curious and by disposition eager to
learn, although most teachers wouldn't admit that after they do the
marking.
4194
The point would be that they have their tastes. They have their peer group. They have their own ways of using
technology. The cohort we are
educating now is far more technically adept than even my generation which
invented many of these devices.
4195
The point would be, though, that these students also are often glad and
eager to be touched by something other from teachers, from community leaders,
from the media that adds value as to their curiousity. If Aristotle said, "Man by nature desire
to know", we know that students by nature desire to get stuff and to learn stuff
and one way to do that is by providing a catchy but also outside the box
interpretation.
4196
I mean, if you look at the post‑millennial, post‑modern generation we are
looking at now, they can smell a package, that carefully‑managed, modern
marketing technique a mile away and they usually detest it. That's why most institutions are failing
right now because they depend on modern style packaging with all the
consultants, with media surveys, pollsters, market needs assessments and so
on. What these students want is
something outside the box that attacks something with relevance and that can't
be done by pre‑packaging. That has
to be done not even with market surveys, and with all due respect to those who
disparage classic rock, there is a place for the old rock because it asks the
questions that are still with us today.
4197
So I think the question is radio will live as radio is relevant and the
relevance has to leave the marketing ‑‑ the box behind and to say (a) you
matter, you are important; (b) we have the people right around us who can
connect what you think is dead with what you think is the package and say inside
all that there is a place for individuals.
4198
Radio is people. Education
is people. When all the surveys
rise and fall and political regimes abusing and prostituting education, as a
historian I'm still trying to understand what the purpose is, the real agenda is
behind something called social studies because I think, in the end, we only
blend and fall into watering down of things when we start leaving people behind
and go to systems.
4199
What I like about this station is that it's not a system‑driven
concept. It's not a package‑driven
concept. It says what do the
people ‑‑ what do they listen to, who are they and how can they be part of
this station, which is why their reporting teams go to the scene, talk to people
who travel, who have been around who are also however committed to the region
and emerge from the grassroots like I did in the Ottawa Valley and have other
people in the region say this person is just over there at the college. This person lives in Grande
Prairie. What is their phone
number? Could they come to our
school? Could I go to their
college? Could we, in listening to
their station, hear them again?
4200
It's these people contacts, just as in the music world that we are going
to catch the attention and keep radio relevant.
4201
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
4202
One of the intervenors who is not appearing here, which is the Canadian
Independent Record Producers Association, is saying that Pattison, rather than
put their money into Save the Music Foundation should send their money to CARA
because Save the Music Foundation is a duplication of
CARA.
4203
I know that you have alluded to CARA, Mr. Connell. Do you have any comments to make on
that?
4204
MR. CONNELL: Yes, I think
there is a major difference. I
mean, CARA has been around for a while and we applaud what they do just like
CADME in Calgary.
4205
The music foundation that we are establishing, the Save the Music
Foundation, has set programs. We
are just not giving money for people to apply for instruments or to travel. We are looking at education and saying,
"How can we improve education? "What can we do to make education stronger so
that kids are more involved in music so that we can develop more Canadian
talent?"
4206
We have specific programs that we are going to be offering. It's almost like ‑‑ you know, like
a university class‑type thing that we are going to offer programs. We are just not going to be offering
money to buy products. We are
saying through our experience and through our contacts that we will be setting
up programs, we will be doing things that will improve music. You know, it may be such ‑‑ if you
think of it as like a night school class kind of thing, we are just not going to
be funding.
4207
THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr.
Townsend (off mic).
4208
MR. TOWNSEND: Yes, I am a
guy from the field. I'm actually
active teaching, doing this stuff, and have for many
years.
4209
CARA is something I know nothing about. I don't know what you are talking
about. If there is a program that
already exists I don't know that.
4210
When I got the invite to speak on behalf of the Pattison Group it is
because of this Save the Music Foundation that sort of lit me up because now
there is something that looks like we can access and help to promote music in
the schools and ultimately develop the talent in the west. It's because it is a western program
that it needs to be done. So many
things go down east and never come back out west.
4211
Thank you.
4212
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
4213
Mr. Langford.
4214
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
4215
Mr. Crerar, I have been listening to you. I read your intervention and you
mentioned in both of them it was kind of ‑‑ I guess kind of ‑‑ that
this sort of public service educational deep in‑depth news approach of the
Pattison station would serve students' needs and would be of great aid for
students and you felt that this is something that students want and something
that students need to have this.
You were even quoting Aristotle, you know, this great ‑‑ it was
better than Plato, I suppose, but ‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4216
MR. CRERAR: More practical
but not as cool.
4217
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ this great
curiousity.
4218
And yet, the disconnect I am finding here is that the student association
for the very college where you teach supports another one of the
applicants. They support the Crude
Communication application and I just wonder why that would be. I mean, maybe you can help me understand
why you speaking on behalf of the students
want ‑‑
4219
MR. CRERAR: I think it's the
nature of Canadian pluralism.
4220
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ something else.
4221
MR. CRERAR: Yes, I think
it's the nature of Canadian pluralism right now and the way in which the funding
and the managing of information is handled.
4222
Students by nature are alternative thinkers, college students in
particular. But I'm thinking about
the high school students and the public school students who will listen to the
radio with mom and dad in the morning maybe even in the barn or on the tractor
who are thinking about this and who will come after these.
4223
College students naturally have their tastes. We have a large international community
from Nigeria, from the Orient. We
also have students who are wanting to transfer and move on out to other
communities; to leave for national service to work in NGOs, and in a way
although they often listen maybe even in their closet to country and western,
there is also other ways in which those stations are the community
stations.
4224
Those connections are the community connections out of which that matrix
arises students who think bigger, who think with a regional international
perspective and who will go on to do other things. They are the ones who want to know more
but won't always get that except they'll get the latest rock news, the latest
internet buzz, and that's nice. But
in the end when they emerge they are saying, "But what do I do with my
life?" It's the old question, how
do I get a job or how do I find my way in the world?
4225
And the answer is it's probably not going to be in Grande Prairie if you
are thinking of education. You are
going to be looking at leaving at some point to engage the larger province in
the nation.
4226
That's why so many of the students that I am teaching are on their MP3
when they should be listening to my lectures, are listening to something they
got from the internet. When that's
put away and they look at the larger perspective of their life track they also
appreciate the fact that people close to them physically, voices they can hear,
people they can visit, people they can talk to are actually from there, in there
and have a voice to the radio station that looks after
people.
4227
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: If
they are listening to their MP3s, this sort of guardian class, future guardian
class of students who are looking for something more, looking for something
extra that you speak of, surely they are not listening to in‑depth
coverage? They are not turning on
their MP3s for a download of a Gwynne Dyer lecture and I wonder whether they
won't be finding that sort of thing on As It Happens on the
CBC.
4228
I was interested to hear Ms Miller say that, you know, you can't be
international here but you can be local and that's what you can provide. It seems to me that you are
reaching ‑‑ the way I am hearing you anyway, that you are saying quite the
other thing; that the value added for you is this international connection which
to me then I see a double disconnection, a disconnection between you and Ms
Miller, a disconnection between you and your own students. I am having trouble actually in
assessing the Pattison application, seeing it fit into this niche that you are
speaking about.
4229
MR. CRERAR: Well, maybe the
mental matrix you are working from ‑‑ remember that students don't go in
straight lines. Linear logic is not
a gift. It's something that is
imparted sometimes. People hear and
think on a broad scale. Their minds
are shifting; incidents, memories, collections and often is focused on
charismatic people in the end who are the most influenced.
4230
They may be interested and they put a lot of money as consumers into one
kind of media, one phase in their life, but at another point they are also
listening to everything and in spite of us teachers they learn. They also of course describe CBC as
"nerd radio" or "geek radio". On
the other hand, every now and then when they hear their voice on it they tune
in.
4231
I think there is a way in which you are right. There is a disconnect, and it's
generational and it is institutional and that's why radio stations that try to
keep perpetuating even the music they are in trouble.
4232
I think the one thing that bridges that, especially in our region, is the
people connections that are made by hearing their voices, by hearing their
questions communicated. And it may
be only on the bus ride to school.
It may only be at the morning breakfast table. It may be at night sometimes, but often
the solution is that they don't wear their MP3 all the time and if they keep the
volume up they will be deaf soon anyway.
4233
Seriously speaking, people are not parallel. They are thinking along several lines at
once. They are taking in
information at all ages in different ways and they are trying to line up some
linear ‑‑ all comprehensive or totally connected series of sequences or
services is actually part of the problem with the modern project. Most of the time people are actually,
sometimes even what could be called at the clan level socially, and that
interaction includes interaction with parents, interaction with teachers. Teachers after all are the most
significant adult in many students' lives outside the parents, sometimes in
spite of the parents, and those relationships involve a generational cross that
sociologically appears not to be a connect until you talk to someone like
Reginald Bibby or others who are doing work with these cohorts and discovering
that there is an interest longitudinally over generations as well as their own
particular fads at the time or their own particular
interests.
4234
We have people today that have the technology to become very intensely
informed on very narrow subjects and every now and then they come up for air,
you might say, and say, "Yes, but what is the big picture?" And the answer is people who can connect
you with that.
4235
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Well,
folks, those of you from Pattison who do the programming, there is your
challenge.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4236
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Those
are my questions. Thanks very much,
Mr. Chairman.
4237
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Commissioner Langford.
4238
Thank you, Mrs. Miller.
Gentlemen, thank you for your presentation.
4239
We will move to the next cohort of intervenors.
‑‑‑ Pause
4240
THE CHAIRPERSON: Miss
Secretary.
4241
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
4242
I will now call on the next panel of supporting intervenors starting by
Anil Padayas of the Peace Wapiti Academy; Mr. Graham Johnson of Summerslam
Sports Ltd.; Amanda Ford of the Grande Prairie Regional College Students
Association and Mr. Rick Nordstrom from the Grande Prairie Storm Hockey
Club.
4243
We will start with Anil Padayas.
You have 10 minutes for your presentation.
INTERVENTION
4244
MR. PADAYAS: Thank you. Good morning to the
panel.
4245
My name is Anil Padayas. I
am from Peace Wapiti Academy in Grande Prairie, and our academy is not a private
school but a public school. We are
approximately 400 students from grades 9 to 12. I am currently the vice‑principal at
Peace Wapiti Academy.
4246
As you probably heard, there is a growing population that is occurring in
Grande Prairie and area. There are
two other high schools in that area.
The one right beside us has a population about 1,400; another high school
that is a Catholic high school that has a population of about 800
students.
4247
Our school draws from the surrounding area. We are a regional school division and we
draw from outside of Grande Prairie, the surrounding areas, farms, acreages and
the smaller communities that surround us.
4248
Our school offers a variety of programs, sports programs; football,
basketball, volleyball, track and field, badminton, all those things that are
fairly common in high schools. We
also have a strong academic program offering scholarships and university
entrance programs. We also offer
trades in mechanics, building construction, welding and so forth. We also offer a dynamic fine arts
program that involves drama, music and choral. We also have a general learner's student
population as well which offers special needs programs to
students.
4249
We also offer something called work experience for students that gives
them an opportunity at a high school level to earn credits. In the province of Alberta for a student
to achieve a high school diploma they have to earn 100 credits in terms of the
courses they take and the courses they take usually end up having five credits
per course and students earn these credits to help them achieve their high
school diploma.
4250
Now, work experience allows them to go out into the work field and have
an opportunity to work in a specific area and learn about that industry,
whatever that might be, and earn credits based on whatever that trade or
industry is.
4251
I'm here to support Crude Communications for many reasons and I will
highlight them now.
4252
First and foremost, they are a locally‑owned company; business owners,
families and parents and students that more than likely will be coming to our
school and supporting our school in terms of what happens in the community and
region.
4253
Crude Communications allows our school or gives us an opportunity to do
announcements for school events, coverage of local activities, sports and fine
art programs.
4254
Also, Crude Communications allows us an opportunity for independent
artists to develop their skills and showcase them through their
broadcasting.
4255
But most importantly, as I was speaking of work experience, one of the
things that education right now is trying to give students an opportunity to do
different things, and I believe that a local broadcasting company would allow
our students an opportunity to try what the radio and broadcasting industry has
to offer and in turn maybe ‑‑ and somewhere down the line give them an
opportunity as a profession somewhere in the future.
4256
The biggest impact; once again, as I say, work experience in terms of
allowing students an opportunity to be in the broadcast industry and try to see
if that's their niche in terms of what they want to do in their future
plans.
4257
Also, we as a school offer band and choral programs that allow students
an opportunity there to approach Crude Communications and have some time,
airtime, so that they have a chance at being able to air to the
community.
4258
Thank you.
4259
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Padayas.
4260
Mr. Johnson.
INTERVENTION
4261
MR. JOHNSON: Good
morning. My name is Graham
Johnson. I am a local music
promoter in Grande Prairie.
4262
I have a company called Summerslam Sports. It has been a music festival and sports
tournament for the last seven years.
We have had pretty much everybody in Canadian music that is in the top
categories over the few years. Last
year our headliner was Great Big Sea; 54‑40; Sam Roberts who is a multi‑Juno
award winner. This year of the
headliners we have three of the top five Juno nominated for band of the year are
our headliners.
4263
Besides that I have also put on hundreds of small, medium, large concerts
through both the music festivals and also my association with a small 500‑seat
music venue that I was involved with, with my father Byron Johnson, which is
still in existence today.
4264
I have never felt so popular than until this process started. I have been approached by pretty much a
majority of the applicants that you have and I wanted to sit on the fence
because it's an interesting process that we are going through here, and until I
read all of the applications did I decide that I wanted to support the local
guys. I have some involvement in
the community besides all of the music that we put on and in that involvement I
realized today that the local ownership is crucial. Our city has grown considerably over the
past few years and it's the only time that you see people that we grew up
with ‑‑ I have been in Grande Prairie for 40 years and when I go to
non‑profit organizations or community‑run events it is the only time today where
I run into my old friends.
4265
So therefore, I truly back the local owners, Gord and Donna from Crude
Communications. I have worked with
them before on other events and they do a tremendous job. I think it's important that they get the
support from guys like me and I look forward to working with them in other music
and community events, whether it be through the ball association that he is the
president of or anything that I am involved with. He is always there to help me out and
it's important that I have a voice when I put on my small events as well as my
large events. He has shown me the
support in the past.
4266
That's all I have to say.
Thank you.
4267
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much.
INTERVENTION
4268
MS FORD: Good morning. My name is Amanda Ford and I was born in
Grande Prairie and have recently just moved back after growing up further north
of Grande Prairie to continue my education in college.
4269
As well as a student at the Grande Prairie Regional College, I am an
executive member of the Grande Prairie Regional College Students' Association
and I am here on behalf of Crude Communications.
4270
The Grande Prairie Regional College Students' Association is a
constituted non‑for‑profit organization that represents students'
interests.
4271
The organization is run by students for the students; services that we
provide range from health and dental plans to our Room of Plenty food bank to
campus activities.
4272
As the vice‑president of social programming at the students' association
for my second consecutive year, it is my responsibility to coordinate; run
affordable on and off campus events for all our students. Our campus lounge is a venue for many of
our numerous events throughout the school year. In addition to our monthly events
Howlers is also a popular hangout spot for our students before, after and in
between classes.
4273
Grande Prairie is a city with an extremely strong and demanding economy
and there is no immediate end in sight to its enormous growth. As Grande Prairie's economy and future
continues to prosper, it is clear to say that education is a very important
variable to the city's development.
4274
In Grande Prairie our enrolment is beginning to decline. I have a ‑‑ it seems to be that
Grande Prairie is very large and numerous jobs are opening up and people are
coming or dropping out of high school and just landing into these jobs and not
wanting to continue their education further. To me, education is our future. We are continuing to learn every day and
to get the future knowledge for these jobs out there you need to go to
school.
4275
As a student leader it is my duty to fight for post‑secondary
improvements and Crude Communications is willing to help us do this by setting
aside funding for scholarships and giving students the opportunity to work hands
on in their industry. This
opportunity could potentially open up new doors for implementation of new
broadcast‑related programs at our college.
4276
Education, as I said, is very important to every aspect of life and
society needs to really begin to see its true importance so that we can
help. So with the help of Crude
Communications I truly believe that Grande Prairie Regional College along with
local high school, we can convey this message to our local and surrounding
communities.
4277
I would like to thank you for this opportunity to support Crude
Communications who was willing to help us positively change our organization and
the surrounding community.
4278
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
4279
Mr. Nordstrom.
INTERVENTION
4280
MR. NORDSTROM: Good morning,
Mr. Chairman and CRTC board.
4281
My name is Rick Nordstrom. I
have been married for 27 years. I
have four children and a very patient wife named Patricia. We have resided in Grande Prairie for 13
years. We have watched Grande
Prairie double in population and understand that it may double again in the next
five years.
4282
Having spent approximately 30 years in new home construction, I have
decided to spend the next five years developing young hockey players. I have sat the past six years on the
minor hockey executive as a volunteer.
I am also one of the original founders of the Grande Prairie Storm Junior
A Hockey Team and at present I am the governor representing the Storm in the
Alberta Junior Hockey League, also as a volunteer.
4283
The Grande Prairie Storm is a non‑for‑profit community‑owned Junior A
hockey franchise operated by volunteers.
We are one of 16 franchises in the Alberta Junior Hockey League. The Alberta Junior Hockey League extends
to four corners of the province from Grande Prairie in the northwest to Fort
McMurray in the northeast, to Canmore in the southwest and Drumheller in the
southeast.
4284
We are beginning our eleventh season in the Alberta Junior Hockey League
and they have led the league in attendance every year and have been one of the
top‑drawing teams in all of Canada since we have joined the league. We have over 1,600 season ticket holders
and an average of almost 2,500 fans per game. We play a 60‑game schedule, 30 games at
home and probably three or four exhibition games plus
playoffs.
4285
We have been a success because we have made ourselves an important part
of Grande Prairie community. We
have gotten a lot from the community but we also give a lot back. Every year we contribute approximately
$20,000 to minor hockey in Grande Prairie; open the doors to our facility for
local, non‑profit groups to fundraise at our Storm games; find sponsor tickets
for tickets for all minor hockey players in schools in the Peace Country; spread
our players throughout the community to volunteer to help those in need and are
involved in many other activities in our community.
4286
It has been the mandate of the Grande Prairie Storm that the community
comes first. That was never more
evident than in the 2004 Junior A national championship, the Royal Bank Cup,
which Grande Prairie hosted in 2004.
Profits from the Royal Bank Cup reached approximately $400,000. None of that money was kept for general
operations of the Storm. It was all
given back to the community. Over
20 groups and organizations in Grande Prairie area, many of them non‑hockey
related, were presented with the funds generated through the Storm's hosting of
the Royal Bank Cup.
4287
Grande Prairie is one of the fastest growing cities in Canada. We are still able to maintain the
community pride and ownership because we support each other. Local people shop at local business and local business support
local groups, organizations and teams like Grande Prairie
Storm.
4288
Since the Storm was formed back in the mid‑1990s we have had a great
relationship with our two local radio stations, Sun FM and Big Country
XXFM. They have supported the Storm
not just through sponsorship avenues but by giving the team outstanding coverage
through their news and sports department.
They have helped make us the number one entertainment draw in the Peace
Country and we certainly appreciate it; support their bids to expand their
operation in Grande Prairie.
4289
The Grande Prairie Hockey Team also feels comfortable in putting its
support behind another local group, Bear Creek Broadcasting Ltd. We are very familiar with the Bear Creek
group. We have been very impressed
how they have contributed both volunteerism and financially to many of the
community events in Grande Prairie over the years. They are a big part of Grande Prairie
community and have proven track records when it comes to getting the job done
and giving back to the community.
4290
Crude Communications Limited, locally owned and operated by Gord Gavin
and Donna Pringle, both deemed very active in our community, has given us every
indication that they want to become part of the Grande Prairie community, a
bigger part of the Grande Prairie community. Crude is the only applicant that has
made a commitment to broadcasting Storm games if they are awarded the licence to
set up shop in Grande Prairie. We
appreciate their commitment to the Storm.
4291
The Storm Hockey Club also wishes all applicants well. We are prepared to work with whatever
group is granted a licence and hope they become a successful part of the
community we are so proud of.
4292
Thanks very much.
4293
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Nordstrom.
4294
Commissioner Cugini.
4295
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Good
morning.
4296
Mr. Johnson, you said you organize hundreds of
events ‑‑
4297
MR. JOHNSON:
Yes.
4298
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: ‑‑ throughout the Grande Prairie area, and is
that on a yearly basis?
4299
MR. JOHNSON: No, no, over
the last 15 years.
4300
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And on
a yearly basis how many events would you put on?
4301
MR. JOHNSON: I have two
outdoor music events but then, again, involvement in the restaurant music venue
anywhere from 20 to 70.
4302
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And
those two outdoor events ‑‑
4303
MR. JOHNSON:
Yes.
4304
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: ‑‑ they are primarily rock
music?
4305
MR. JOHNSON: Yes, yes, one
in ‑‑
4306
COMMISSIONER CUGINI:
And ‑‑
4307
MR. JOHNSON: I'm
sorry. ‑‑
4308
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Go
ahead.
4309
MR. JOHNSON: One in
particular, the event called "Summerslam" which will be held in three weeks is
now a premier event in Canada. It
will have perhaps 16 to 20,000 people throughout the weekend and it is my
primary business during the year.
4310
The rest of it, to me, is just supporting the other music events and
supporting music itself to stay in the business, but this is my Stanley Cup, is
this Summerslam Sports Weekend, again, three weeks from
tomorrow.
4311
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: And who
are the three headliners?
4312
MR. JOHNSON: This year there
is actually five headliners. The
event has become so popular. Our
Lady Peace is the Saturday night.
Friday night is Blue Rodeo.
Thursday night is Theory of a Dead Man and David Wilcox, Matt Mays &
El Torpedo, Stabilo. If you look at
any Top 40 right now, whether it be country, classic rock, modern rock,
alternative rock, one of those bands is in there
somewhere.
4313
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Those
are pretty big names.
4314
MR. JOHNSON: Those are big
names.
4315
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: In
Canadian music.
4316
MR. JOHNSON: Yes, thank
you. I
appreciate ‑‑
4317
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: How do
you get them to Grande Prairie?
4318
MR. JOHNSON: Well, hard
work; hard work and a lot of years of battling it out. So I understand this process very
well. I understand how important it
is and I will pay the price for sitting at this seat, believe
me.
4319
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank
you. Thank you very much for your
contribution.
4320
MR. JOHNSON: Yes. You are very
welcome.
4321
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: That's
all, Mr. Chair.
4322
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
4323
Mr. Johnson, you have mentioned you have been approached by numerous
groups and you choose to support the local owners.
4324
MR. JOHNSON: That's
correct.
4325
THE CHAIRPERSON: So you have
been talking with most of ‑‑ which format will complement the market
offering in Grande Prairie because we have been told by numerous applicants if
not all that there was place for more than one station in the
market?
4326
So from your own perspective which format will be a good complement to
the current radio offering?
4327
MR. JOHNSON: Two, two. One is absolutely classic rock. There is no question about it because of
the age demographics in Grande Prairie right now. And the other one truly is community
oriented.
4328
Radio in Grande Prairie is truly the glue that keeps us together and it
is so important. Our town is
changing unlike anything you guys have probably ever seen and we truly need a
community voice, absolutely, so important.
And because business is so big and it's very difficult to advertise if
you are a small owner/operator of a company but we need a community‑based radio
station.
4329
And then as far as the music is concerned, because I know I listen to the
radio living in Grande Prairie not for music ‑‑ I listen to find out what
is going on, you know, what is Rick Nordstrom doing with the Grande Prairie
Storm? I am very involved in that
particular organization and have been.
That's why I listen to the radio.
4330
I also listen to hear what else is going on in the music world. So classic rock right now is ‑‑
it's crucial we have a classic rock station and it's also crucial we have a
community‑run station.
4331
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
4332
Miss ‑‑ I don't remember your name. I apologize,
but ‑‑
4333
MS FORD: It's Amanda
Ford.
4334
THE CHAIRPERSON: You have
heard some ‑‑ Grande Prairie College, the professor articulated ‑‑ Mr.
Crerar talking earlier about the disconnect between, well, the adults and the
younger generation and I had a question for him saying that ‑‑ and you are
here representing the students that there is an understanding ‑‑ it is
measured that the younger generation have stopped listening to radio, rather
they use their MP3s, iPods or other internet or other means to get their music
and now you are here representing the students saying that they support Crude
Communication.
4335
What kind of comments could you make and what could you tell the
broadcasters that will allow them to recapture the younger
audience?
4336
MS FORD: Well, there is no
doubt that students and people in general do love music. I believe that students use the radio
and even television to figure out what new music has come about and then they do
go to other sources like the internet and download that music so they can use it
on their, you know, MP3 players. It
is just an easier way to carry around their music because you can hold more on
it.
4337
I don't find that a lot of students mainly use radio for finding out what
is going on in the world or the rest of Canada. They will tune in to the local news
reports or in the newspapers to find that out. They would rather just hear strictly
music with no commercials and that's what would make them
happy.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4338
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: No
problem there, Mr. Chairman.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4339
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: We
just take out the word "commercial" from commercial radio and we are ready to
rock and roll.
4340
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much, gentlemen. Thank
you.
4341
And we will go to the last intervenors.
4342
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
4343
And just for the record, Miss Bonnie Bell from the Grande Prairie
Friendship Centre will not be appearing today.
4344
Therefore, we now call on the last appearing intervenor, Mr. Paul Husband
from the Progressive Marketing Alliance to come forward,
please.
‑‑‑ Pause
4345
THE SECRETARY: Mr. Paul
Husband, if you are present in the room?
4346
Then I gather that this is the list of our appearing intervenors for the
day, Mr. Chairman. This completes
Phase III of the process.
4347
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
4348
THE SECRETARY: Thank
you.
4349
THE CHAIRPERSON: And before
moving to Phase IV we will take a 15‑minute break.
4350
So we will be back at 11 o'clock.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1042 /
Suspension à 1042
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1108 / Reprise
à 1108
4351
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
4352
We will now proceed to Phase IV in which applicants can reply to all
interventions that were submitted on their application. Applicants will appear in reverse
order.
4353
I will then ask Standard Radio Inc. to come forward for their
reply.
‑‑‑ Pause
4354
THE SECRETARY: For the
purposes of our transcript, I would appreciate it if you could identify yourself
and you have 10 minutes for your presentation.
REPLY /
RÉPLIQUE
4355
MR. FORBES: I am Marty
Forbes, Vice‑President, General Manager of Standard Radio, Edmonton, and have
nothing further to say.
4356
Thank you.
4357
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Forbes.
4358
Mrs. Secretary.
4359
THE SECRETARY: Thank
you.
4360
I will now proceed with Crude Communications Inc. and, again, if you
could introduce yourself before speaking.
Thank you.
REPLY /
RÉPLIQUE
4361
MR. GUAVIN: Good
morning. My name is Gordon
Gauvin. I am with Crude
Communications.
4362
I would just like to thank my intervenors for travelling all the way down
from Grande Prairie. It is 465
kilometres away. It's a bit of a
trip for all of them and I appreciate that.
4363
I would also like to thank the Commission staff and the Commissioners for
being part of this process. It has
been very interesting and very educational. Thank you.
4364
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Gauvin.
4365
Mrs. Secretary.
4366
THE SECRETARY: Thank
you.
4367
I would now call on Vista Radio Ltd. to come
forward.
4368
I gather they are not in the room.
Then we will proceed with Jim Pattison Broadcast Group
Ltd.
‑‑‑ Pause
4369
THE SECRETARY: Mr. Arnish,
you have 10 minutes for your presentation.
REPLY /
RÉPLIQUE
4370
MR. ARNISH: Thank you, Madam
Secretary, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, Commission staff.
4371
I will be reasonably brief here this morning.
4372
Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, we are pleased to have this
opportunity to comment on interventions filed in this proceeding. There was one negative intervention
filed against ours and all other applications in this proceeding by the Canadian
Independent Recording Industry Association. We provided a written response to that
intervention in a letter dated June 8th, 2006.
4373
In our appearance in Phase I of these proceedings the Chair requested
further comment from us in response to the comments of CIRPA that our Save the
Music Foundation funding would be better suited if provided to the CARAS MusiCan
program.
4374
As indicated in our written response, we do not believe, based on
discussions with music educators in western Canada and in the markets we are
applying for licences in that the MusiCan program will meet the targeted
objective of the Save the Music Foundation of creating funding in western Canada
for support of the best of the best of high school music programs and other
initiatives which the fund will support in western Canada.
4375
Mr. Chairman, it is somewhat frustrating to us that CIRPA would be
criticizing a program which so clearly attempts to meet their objective of
supporting music education in Canada.
The Commission, we believe, should encourage the efforts of broadcasters
and all players in the system to come up with effective approaches to talent
development which may be of local or regional relevance and
importance.
4376
Commissioner Cram asked us yesterday why money would be available to
British Columbia from the initiative and we responded that some of the funding
for the initiative would come from benefits related to transactions in British
Columbia. Our concern highlights
the point. We are trying to return
some of our CTD funding to communities and regions which we are being licensed
to serve. That is why it is
important that the fund be headquartered in the region of Canada that we operate
in. We do not believe that in all
cases Toronto‑based organizations should have a monopoly on the management and
distribution of CTD funding.
4377
While we do recognize the value in some areas of a consolidation of CTD
funding, in this situation building relationships with highly successful
agencies like the Rocky Mountain Music Festival will establish a unique,
progressive and, we expect, highly successful catalyst to Canadian talent
development which we believe the Commission will be proud to have participated
in creating.
4378
There are no Canadians more passionate about Canadian talent development
than music educators such as Mr. Chapman and Mr. Connell who appeared in support
of our Save the Music initiative.
We are pleased to have their support for our vision and commitment to
this initiative.
4379
I would like to quote from the letter written in support of our
application by Edmonton‑based committee and independent recording artist
Samantha King:
"My heart is completely involved in
standing behind and endorsing the Save the Music Foundation for high school and
music programs in Alberta. Save the
Music Foundation is an extremely vital tool that addresses Canadian talent
development at its most infinite grassroots stage and it will raise the quality
of music education in western Canada." (As read)
4380
In closing, Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, we would like to
thank the numerous individuals, businesses, elected officials and community
groups which took the time to write letters, sign petitions and commit to appear
before the Commission to convey their support for our application for a new
licence to serve the community of Grande Prairie.
4381
And, finally, Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, I wish to thank
you and Commission staff for running a great hearing. It has been very fair and very
effective.
4382
Thank you very much.
4383
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much, Mr. Arnish.
4384
Miss Secretary.
4385
THE SECRETARY: Thank
you.
4386
I would now call on the next applicants, Sun Country Cablevision Ltd. on
behalf of a corporation to be incorporated, to come
forward.
‑‑‑
Pause
4387
THE SECRETARY: Again, if you
could please identify yourself for the transcript and you have 10 minutes for
your presentation.
REPLY /
RÉPLIQUE
4388
MR. GRAY: Thank you very
much, Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission and staff.
4389
My name is Walter Gray. I am
a director with Sun Country Cablevision on behalf of a radio company to be
incorporated at Grande Prairie.
4390
I appear this morning to set the record straight as a result of comments
that were made by Crude Communications during Phase II. We weren't in the room at the time. The transcript is not yet
available. However, we have been
told that we were characterized as not having told the truth about our interest
in doing Grande Prairie Storm hockey broadcasts.
4391
What I would like to do is re‑read the seven or eight lines from our
prepared script heard yesterday concerning the comments we made. Starting out we
said:
"We want to broadcast the Grande
Prairie Storm Junior A hockey games.
We have a letter on file with the Commission from the business manager of
the team following our meeting with the manager coach of the Storm, expressing
interest in our desire to do those broadcasts." (As read)
4392
And then we said:
"It's win‑win. It adds remarkably to community spirit.
Frankly, we are surprised that the games are not now being broadcast." (As
read)
4393
We never did state or say that there was any contract. I can tell you that we met with the
manager coach, told him that we did have an interest in doing the broadcasts and
should we be licensed we would like to enter into arrangements with
them.
4394
At this hearing we heard that there is a second applicant and only two
applicants only, of course, interested in doing the broadcasts and the other
applicant is of course Crude Communications.
4395
This morning we heard a volunteer director just a few moments ago, Mr.
Nordstrom, state before the Commission that only Crude Communications had showed
interest in doing the Storm broadcast and, of course, that is not
correct.
4396
So I just wanted to set the record straight. Sun Country is very community minded, is
very interested in doing the hockey play by play and should we be licensed we
would then make the case that 100,000 watt FM station could probably reach a
larger audience than a 50‑watt station.
4397
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Gray. We also heard from Mr.
Nordstrom that whoever gets the licence they are interested in having the Storm
hockey games being broadcast. So
they are showing an interest to be broadcast not only by yourselves or Crude or
by anybody else.
4398
So thank you for coming.
4399
Mr. Langford.
4400
MR. GRAY: Thank
you.
4401
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you.
4402
Just to complete the record on this, do you have the letter with you from
the Storm that you referred to?
4403
MR. GRAY: Yes, I do,
actually and it's on your file. But
I have it here, yes.
4404
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Perhaps you could just ‑‑ it looks short from here ‑‑ could you
just read it into the record today?
4405
MR. GRAY: Yes, I could do
that.
4406
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you.
4407
MR. GRAY: "The Grande
Prairie Storm
Junior A Hockey Club supports the
Sun Country Cablevision Ltd. bid for a radio broadcasting licence for Grande
Prairie. As you are no doubt aware,
Grande Prairie is one of the most viable and fastest growing areas in
Canada. With a population expected
to be 75,000 or more in the next five years there is a need for more radio
stations in our city. Our citizens
are served by two stations at present, Sun FM and Big Country XX and they both
do a fine job but the market is certainly ready for more
radio.
We are confident Sun Country
Cablevision Ltd. will make a commitment to the local sporting community which
includes the Grande Prairie Storm and provide listeners with local sports news
they want to hear.
We look forward to being able to
turn our radios on in the near future and hear a third or perhaps even a fourth
radio station." (As read)
4408
And this was signed by the business manager, Mr. Don Moon. The meeting we had where we asked for a
letter of support but specifically did not ask to make reference to the hockey
play by play was with their coach manager on May the 18th.
4409
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you very much. That completes the
record on that for my point of view.
4410
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
4411
MR. GRAY: Thank you, Mr.
Chairman and members of the Commission.
We are very impressed with the proceedings that occurred here. You are obviously well researched;
interested in helping the Grande Prairie market and so are
we.
4412
Thank you very much.
4413
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Gray.
4414
Miss Secretary.
4415
THE SECRETARY: Thank
you.
4416
I would now call on Bear Creek Broadcasting Ltd. to come
forward.
‑‑‑ Pause
REPLY /
RÉPLIQUE
4417
MR. TRUHN: Thank you, Madam
Secretary, Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission. I don't really have anything to add
other than to say thanks for the opportunity to make our presentation. It was a new experience for
me.
4418
THE CHAIRPERSON: Could you
identify yourself?
4419
MR. TRUHN: Sorry, Ken Truhn,
President of Bear Creek Broadcasting.
4420
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much.
4421
MR. TRUHN: Thank
you.
4422
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Truhn.
4423
Miss Secretary.
4424
THE SECRETARY: We will
continue with O.K. Radio Group Ltd., if you would come forward,
please?
‑‑‑ Pause
4425
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Bedore,
could you introduce your team?
4426
MR. BEDORE: Certainly. My name is Tom Bedore. I am the General Manager of Sun FM in
Grande Prairie.
4427
To my far left is Murray Driver, our Sales Manager; and Stuart Morton who
is the Operations Manager of our Edmonton radio station, Sonic
FM.
REPLY /
RÉPLIQUE
4428
MR. BEDORE: Good morning,
Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission and thank you for allowing us to have
one final word.
4429
Just before we start our brief interventions I would like to report back
on our homework. You asked us to go
over the spoken word. We proposed
to verify the amount of spoken word each week. We have provided a spread sheet to the
secretary of the hearing, Madam Boulet, that outlines the spoken word
programs.
4430
Mr. Langford, you were correct.
We had short changed ourselves.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4431
MR. BEDORE: The chart shows
that regularly scheduled spoken word makes up eight hours and 44 minutes per
week and this consists of four hours, 25 minutes of news information and our
scheduled newscast; two hours and 50 minutes during our specialty music programs
and a minimum of one hour, 29 minutes of specific spoken word features. And then, in addition, there are a
number of seasonal features that we hadn't talked about that would add at least
another 20 minutes of spoken word to the week. Finally, we estimate that the jock talk
would make up another two hours per week.
4432
Now, I would like to address the interventions to our application. We were pleased to note that there were
no interventions opposing our application.
4433
Rather, there were a large number of supporting intervenors, over 400
letters or petitions and five others that took the time to appear at the hearing
and we would like to thank them for their support. They came from a wide spectrum of the
Grande Prairie community and collectively they expressed their appreciation for
the strong community involvement of the Sun FM team over the many years we have
served this community; their support for the current strong news offerings we
provide for our proposals to broaden and deepen our coverage, the need for a new
rock station in Grande Prairie that would reflect not only how young our
community is with a median age of 29.7 in 2001, but also the growing music
scene; their support for our Canadian talent development initiatives that they
believe are appropriate to the emerging artists in our community and also the
need for a new radio program the reflects the aboriginal community and gives
exposure to aboriginal rock musicians and; finally, their appreciation of our
efforts to support worthwhile projects in our community and in particular for
our new initiative with a diverse city project to spread their message of
tolerance.
4434
Mr. Chair, there was one comment provided by CIRPA that raised a number
of points including a criticism of our application. I would like to point out that our
application meets many of the suggestions that they raise. They suggest that a higher level of
Canadian content is better. We
propose 40 percent Canadian content.
They called for a diversity of format. Our proposed rock format with an
emphasis on new music will provide significant diversity. They would like to see support for
industry associations including FACTOR and ARIA and we have earmarked monies for
both of those organizations.
4435
This being said, they did criticize our Rock the Peace initiative. In part, their opposition is based upon
a misunderstanding of what we propose.
For example, they seem to believe that we will be collecting revenues
from sales of CDs. They seem to
believe we see this initiative as a means into the record business. We are sorry if we were not clear in our
application. We have no intent of
selling records or of entering their business.
4436
What we will do is provide young Grande Prairie musicians with a
recording they can use as a calling card with radio stations and with record
companies as they seek to progress in the industry.
4437
Contrary to what CIRPA seems to believe, our Rock the Peace initiative in
conjunction with Peace Starts at Home has struck a chord with the music
community in the Peace Country. As
you heard in Phase III; that combined with our ARIA and FACTOR contributions
that target northern Alberta, we hope that they will help to make sure that the
next Nickelback does in fact come out of our part of the
province.
4438
CIRPA has often been on record stating the necessity for airplay for new
Canadian artists. Our 40 percent
Cancon, our commitment to new music, the highest of any applicant here, our
funding initiatives and our market‑proven band of the month initiative fully
meet these criterion.
4439
This morning one intervenor stated that Grande Prairie needs a community
station to reflect our community.
We must disagree. We already
have two community stations in Grande Prairie, the 25 men and women at our
station and the over 20 people at the Pattison station all have long and deep
roots in our community. I know
because I have worked at both stations.
4440
I know the degree at which the ownership and management of both stations
support our community involvement.
The supporting intervenors this morning clearly demonstrated the
appreciation Peace Country residents have for all our collective efforts. I believe more people listen to us but I
think they are good too.
4441
The research that we submitted shows clearly that residents of Grande
Prairie and area are very satisfied with the local news and information
available to them. What they are
also telling us, though, is that they need new musical choices and the expanded
service that we promise to deliver to them.
4442
Thank you for your attention through this hearing and the opportunity to
present our application to you. We
would be pleased to answer any questions you might have.
4443
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Commissioner Cram.
4444
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you.
4445
I was impressed with the fact that you already have the station on the
internet. In the nightmare scenario
that we would not licence you on the airwaves would you keep this station up on
the internet?
4446
MR. BEDORE: We certainly
plan to keep it running. I mean,
the demand for it has been huge so we have no intention of stopping now,
particularly because the one initiative that we have started with the diversity
project we have created these vignettes that are airing right now and we are
getting quite a reaction to them.
We plan to air them on our existing station as well in the future but for
a new station that's going to be our focus.
4447
We really think that we can have an impact on racism and discrimination
in Grande Prairie. You might
say that I am naïve to believe that this can actually happen but I firmly
believe that we can have an impact.
4448
So yes, we will keep them on the virtual radio
station.
4449
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you.
4450
MR. BEDORE: You are
welcome.
4451
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
4452
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr.
Langford.
4453
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
4454
You paint yourself as so responsive, you and the Pattison Group to your
communities, and it is impressive and you have a long record. I was wondering, I thought maybe you
might be responding to the student association, announcing you were going to
drop all advertising and play only music.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4455
MR. BEDORE: I had no idea
that's all we needed to do and everybody would listen to
us.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4456
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: It
would be so easy. You would lead
the ratings in no time.
4457
MR. BEDORE: Yes, sometimes
the answer is right there in front of you.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4458
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And
all you would have to do ‑‑ think of the money you could make working at
Tim Horton's to try to make ends meet.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4459
MR. BEDORE: You know, lately
I have been thinking a lot about Tim Horton's.
4460
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You
have got to think outside the box.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4461
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you very much. Those are my
comments, I suppose.
4462
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Bedore. Thank
you.
4463
Miss Secretary.
4464
THE SECRETARY: Thank
you.
4465
I would now call on Newcap Inc. to come forward with their
reply.
‑‑‑ Pause
4466
THE SECRETARY: Again, if you
could introduce yourself for the transcript, please? Thank you.
REPLY /
RÉPLIQUE
4467
MR. MAHEU: Thank you very
much, Madam Secretary. Mark Maheu,
Chief Operating Officer for Newcap, and Rob Steele, Chief Executive Officer of
Newcap Radio.
4468
Mr. Chair, members of the Commission and Commission staff, thank you very
much for the opportunity to appear in Phase IV. We really have not very much more to
offer other than to take this opportunity on the record to thank those who
intervened on behalf of Newcap Radio's classic hits proposal for the Grande
Prairie marketplace. We look
forward to the opportunity should we be granted a licence to get it on quickly
and to do a good job and add to the diversity of the
marketplace.
4469
And other than that, if you have any questions we would be happy to
answer them.
4470
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much, Mr. Maheu. Thank you,
Mr. Steele.
4471
Miss Secretary.
4472
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
4473
I would now call on Allan Hunsperger, on behalf of a corporation to be
incorporated, to come forward.
‑‑‑ Pause
4474
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr.
Hunsperger, at your convenience.
Please introduce the member of your party.
REPLY /
RÉPLIQUE
4475
MR. HUNSPERGER: I am Allan
Hunsperger and this is our Network Program Director, Mr. Malcolm
Hunt.
4476
Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, Commission staff, we are here in
Phase IV to hand in our homework as requested by Commissioner Langford during
Phase I. Hopefully, you will give
us a passing grade.
4477
I would like to clarify our current practices to deal with balance and
then outline an additional proposal.
4478
Firstly, let me state that we propose to broadcast six brokered spoken
word programs per week in Grande Prairie, totalling 15 hours per week. There are many, many other such programs
available that we choose not to air due to the content or quality. Many of these brokered programs are
aired on other stations which are not subject to the religious balance
requirement. This is an example of
how we carefully screen our programs to ensure that no offensive content is
broadcast. We also receive daily
cue sheets for our brokered programming.
4479
As we indicated on Monday, we will set up a telephone line to record and
air listener comments. This will
help us to achieve our balance goals.
However, as Commissioner Langford pointed out on Monday, we recognize
that there is no guarantee there will be sufficient listener comment to address
both sides of any issue. In such
cases we have committed to reach out into the community for alternative
voices. In the case of Grande
Prairie, the multicultural society and the community college should be two of
many useful resources for such alternative views.
4480
Additionally, because we have operations in Calgary and Edmonton, we have
all the additional resources available in these large centres to draw on if we
are unable to find suitable expertise in Grande Prairie.
4481
MR. HUNT: Since Monday we
have done considerable research regarding the national distribution of the six
brokered programs we propose to air in Grande Prairie. We have been able to nail down this
research with respect to five of the programs but no data was available for the
sixth, "In Touch".
4482
The chart we have distributed to you illustrates the five other programs
received widespread airplay throughout Canada, as you can see on page 3. "Focus on the Family" is aired on 122
stations across Canada. The others
are aired on 73, 57, 29 and 29 stations respectively. The majority of these stations are not
classified as religious by the Commission and have no specific balance
requirements except those expected of all broadcasters by the Broadcast
Act.
4483
We have also managed to research a number of recent Commission decisions
dealing with religious stations and we were somewhat surprised to discover that
in some cases the Commission has attached a COL requiring a specific minimum
amount of balance programming per week.
We have never discussed the COL with the Commission whether at public
hearings or during paper processes.
4484
However, the most recent we could find was Decision 2006‑111 dated 29
March 2006 wherein United Christian Broadcasters Canada was approved for a
specialty FM in Chatham, Ontario.
Chatham's population is approximately 45,000 which is very similar to the
size of Grande Prairie. The Chatham
station has allocated 25 percent of its time, total air time, to the broadcast
of religious spoken word programming.
Our application allocates 12 percent of this type of
programming.
4485
In the case of Chatham only the general COL was attached to the
licence. Given the similar size of
the two markets and the fact that we are proposing to broadcast less than half
of the spoken word brokered programming, we believe that we should be treated in
the same manner as the Chatham station with respect to conditions of
licence.
4486
We again reiterate that we feel we have an excellent track record with
respect to avoiding controversial topics, as evidenced by the fact that none of
our stations have ever received a complaint about balance or any other
matter. That notwithstanding, after
much deliberation we are prepared to commit to produce and air daily in 60 to
90‑second vignettes about other world religions.
4487
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr.
Langford.
4488
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you, gentlemen.
4489
Just one thing I want to be clear on because I don't have the complete
library of our own decisions here behind me.
4490
When you say that the Chatham station ‑‑ I'm just trying to find
it ‑‑ you say only the general COL was attached to their licence, and what
are you referring to as the general COL?
4491
MR. HUNT: Conditional
licence to follow the Religious Broadcast Act, I
believe.
4492
THE CHAIRPERSON: That would
be the policy.
4493
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: That
policy and it's my impression that that is precisely what we were asking you to
do and now we may ‑‑ I or one of my colleagues may have misspoken but did
you understand we were asking for something more than
that?
4494
MR. HUNSPERGER: No, but we
have already agreed to that.
4495
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right.
4496
MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes,
absolutely.
4497
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Yes,
just trying to figure out, as my kids would say, why are you making such a big
deal about this?
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4498
MR. HUNSPERGER: Well, we
wanted to do as thorough ‑‑ much in our homework as
possible.
4499
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Well,
you had an "A" until you got to that paragraph but I will have to give it some
thought. No, I am joking. I understand
completely.
4500
So you are, in other words, quite comfortable with what you call the
general COL regarding religious balanced programming should it apply to
you. I mean, if you do straight
music and no spoken word it is not going to be applicable to you
anyway.
4501
MR. HUNSPERGER: Yes,
absolutely.
4502
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
you are completely comfortable with that and willing to adhere to
it?
4503
MR. HUNSPERGER:
Yes.
4504
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you very much.
4505
MR. HUNSPERGER: Thank
you.
4506
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Those
are my questions, Mr. Chair.
4507
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Hunsperger.
4508
Miss Secretary.
4509
MR. HUNSPERGER: May I
finish?
4510
THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes,
sure.
4511
MR. HUNSPERGER: Thank
you.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4512
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I beg
your pardon. I thought you had
completed. I am sorry for
interrupting.
4513
MR. HUNSPERGER: That's
fine. I was finished on the balance
issue.
4514
I just want to thank all our intervenors who wrote and sent emails on our
behalf in support of the stations.
4515
We want to thank the three gentlemen who got up early this morning, and
we want to thank Mr. Peter Tétrault who flew them down here and appeared before
us this morning and I want to thank them for taking time out of their
day.
4516
We also want to thank the other broadcasters during this hearing process
who have expressed a positive intervention on our support, and we appreciate
that.
4517
We want to thank the Commission and the Commission staff for all their
work, and thank you very much.
4518
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Hunsperger.
4519
Miss Secretary.
4520
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
4521
I would like to ask the applicant 1097282 Alberta Ltd. to come forward
for their reply.
‑‑‑ Pause
4522
THE SECRETARY: And again, if
you could introduce yourself for the record? Thank you.
4523
THE CHAIRPERSON: So at your
convenience, Mr. Singer.
REPLY /
RÉPLIQUE
4524
MR. SINGER: Good
morning. My name is Ken
Singer. I am Vice‑President and
General Manager of Radio CJVR Ltd.
4525
First of all, I would like to thank the Chairman, Commissioners, CRTC
staff for what has been a very professional and fair hearing thus far. We appreciate the opportunity to
participate in Phase IV.
4526
We would also like to note that, Commissioner Langford, we handed in our
assignment on Tuesday regarding spoken word initiatives and if appropriate I
would answer any questions on that document at this time.
4527
We would also like to thank the intervenors who filed letters of support
for this application in Grande Prairie and just generally thank the support of
the Commission and hopefully we have supplied the answers you are looking for,
and we thank you for the opportunity.
4528
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Singer.
4529
This completes Phase IV of the portion of the hearing regarding Grande
Prairie.
4530
We will now hear the first applicant for Fort
McMurray.
4531
Miss Secretary.
4532
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
4533
I would now ask the numbered company 1182743 Alberta Ltd. to come forward
for their presentation.
4534
THE CHAIRPERSON: While this
group comes to the table we will take a five‑minute break.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1135 /
Suspension à 1135
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1147 / Reprise
à 1147
4535
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order,
please.
4536
Please be seated.
4537
Mrs. Secretary, could you call the first applicant for the Fort McMurray
portion of this hearing?
4538
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
4539
We will now proceed with Item 11 of the agenda which is an application by
the numbered company 1182743 Alberta Ltd. for a licence to operate an
English‑language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Fort
McMurray.
4540
The new station would operate on frequency 94.3 MHz (channel 232B) with
an effective radiated power of 20,000 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna
height of 54 metres).
4541
Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Paul Larsen who will introduce his
colleagues, and you will have 20 minutes for your
presentation.
4542
Mr. Larsen.
PRESENTATION /
PRÉSENTATION
4543
MR. LARSEN: Thank you, Madam
Secretary.
4544
Mr. Chairman, Commissioners and CRTC staff, good morning. My name is Paul Larsen and we are very
excited to present our application for a new FM radio station to serve Fort
McMurray. Before we start our
presentation I will briefly introduce you to our panel.
4545
To my right is Rick Volpati.
Rick is a 20‑year radio veteran whose experience ranges from on‑air
announcer, creative and production manager and program director. Rick spent the past 14 years here in
Alberta, working for Corus and Newcap in Calgary. If licensed, Rick will join our company
as Director of Programming.
4546
Next to Rick is Desiree Daniel.
Desiree grew up in a radio family so the business is in her blood, quite
literally. Her radio experience
includes sales, marketing and promotions at Silk FM in Kelowna. She previously owned her own company,
coaching individuals and small business owners and is also a freelance
writer. If licensed, Desiree will
join our company as Director of Marketing.
4547
To my left is Mary Mills.
Mary is the President of Norscot Holdings Ltd., my business partner in
this application. And next to Mary
is Brenda Stonnell. Brenda is
Norscot's Chief Financial Officer.
4548
And, again, my name is Paul Larsen.
This is my twentieth year in radio.
I have held positions ranging from announcer to program director, general
manager, and most recently president of six radio stations on Vancouver
Island. I am a 50 percent
shareholder and president of our new company, 1182743 Alberta Ltd., and if
licensed will return to Alberta where I spent 12 years of my career to head up
our new company.
4549
In our presentation today, we will touch on the vibrant Fort McMurray
economy, the need for a radio service targeting the 45‑plus population in Fort
McMurray and area, and how our exciting new radio station will complement rather
than compete with the existing stations and benefit Canadian recording artists,
the Canadian radio industry and, most importantly, benefit the Fort McMurray
community.
4550
This application is the result of our deep‑rooted passion for radio. It was written entirely by us. Everything presented are ideas conceived
by the people sitting at this table and is the result of our collective and
lengthy service in this great business.
4551
We strongly believe that the future of radio in Canada depends on
innovative young new leaders stepping forward with creative and exciting
applications such as this one we are about to present.
4552
MR. VOLPATI: If licensed,
our radio station will be called "The Lounge".
4553
The Lounge was inspired by the fact that many of the artists we will play
are commonly labelled "lounge singers".
It's a flashback to the Las Vegas lounge scene of the sixties and
seventies, which our target audience remembers fondly.
4554
We call our format "modern nostalgia". Our format is not just old songs. At least 50 percent of our music will be
newer than 1981 to comply with the hit/non‑hit rules. This exciting mix of new and old music
creates an especially unique and exciting
sound.
4555
Canadians are leading the way in the creation of this music style: artists like Michael Bublé, Matt Dusk
and Diana Krall. Sadly, these great
Canadian artists receive minimal airplay on radio, something we propose to
fix.
4556
Of significance is the number of relatively unknown Canadian artists that
will receive regular, prime‑time airplay on The Lounge, artists such as Dawn
Aitken, Denzal Sinclaire, Andrea Menard, John Alcorn, Suzie Vinnick and there
are many others that we don't have time to mention but named in our
supplementary brief.
4557
The Lounge will also feature Canadian superstars such as Anne Murray,
Gordon Lightfoot, Randy Bachman and Paul Anka who are still producing new music
and touring. Even though these
names are instantly recognized, they too suffer from a lack of radio
airplay. The Lounge will play not
only their established hits but also their new music.
4558
Canadian music will be predominantly featured in our programming,
scheduled evenly throughout each hour.
We will play 40 percent Canadian content weekly and to ensure significant
airplay of newer Canadian music, 50 percent of our Canadian songs will be
released in 2000 or later.
4559
Of course, The Lounge will also feature international artists, many of
them lesser‑known singers, again ensuring diversity, names like Steve Tyrell,
Renee Olstead, Jamie Callum; not household names but exceptional new artists
recording great music.
4560
The Lounge will feature well‑known artists who are re‑recording great
standards and new songs in the "standards" style; artists like Rod Stewart,
Natalie Cole, Harry Connick, Jr. and others.
4561
And we will play the artists who originated and pioneered this music
style; Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, Nat King Cole, Tony Bennett and many
others.
4562
And we will play singers from the sixties, seventies and eighties,
artists who despite their super star status receive very little airplay on
radio, names like Barry Manilow, Barbara Streisand, Neil Diamond and
others. And again, we will play
their new music in addition to the hits.
4563
The Lounge will blend these diverse music styles together to create an
appealing mix of music, new and old, targeted to Fort McMurray's adult
audience.
4564
MR. LARSEN: The Lounge will
bring a new information voice to Fort McMurray. We will place a significant emphasis on
spoken word relating to news, our music, the community and the lifestyle of Fort
McMurray's adult population.
4565
If licensed, The Lounge will provide hourly, locally‑produced newscasts
between six a.m. and six p.m. weekdays and eight a.m. to four p.m. on
weekends.
4566
Our research showed the demand for news, particularly local news. 93.7 percent of respondents to our
research said, "News and information specific to Fort McMurray is important" and
we will provide it.
4567
In total, The Lounge will provide 93 newscasts per week, totalling four
hours and 33 minutes.
4568
Other spoken word including weather and sports, oil and gas updates,
market and business reports, arts and entertainment, will total another two
hours and 30 minutes weekly.
4569
Fort McMurray's adult audience wants to hear about important topics such
as municipal issues, cultural events, health and finance. The Lounge will air a daily magazine
program called "Fort McMurray at Noon" to address this
need.
4570
The Lounge will also feature a one‑hour weekend lifestyle program called
"Life on The Lounge".
4571
We will air "artist spotlights" five times daily, featuring artists in
their own words, connecting directly with our audience. At least 50 percent will be
Canadian.
4572
The Lounge will feature old time radio shows
nightly.
4573
Our spoken word will reflect Fort McMurray's diversity and provide
listeners with a balance of news, entertainment and community
information.
4574
Our spoken word programming totals 22 hours and 9 minutes weekly,
approximately 18 percent of the broadcast week.
4575
On top of that will be announcer show prep, community ad‑libs and live
interviews which will add even more spoken word dimension to The
Lounge.
4576
We have made this strong commitment to spoken word based on what Fort
McMurray adults told us in our research and because we believe it is the content
that airs "between the records" that makes a radio station truly unique and
engaging.
4577
MS DANIEL: It's amazing how
radio has the power to work so closely with the community. The Lounge will be highly supportive of
local events, charities, the arts and entertainment community and non‑profit
organizations around Fort McMurray and area.
4578
Fort McMurray has a vibrant arts community. There are many annual festivals and
events and The Lounge will be front and centre, broadcasting live from each of
them. Some of these events
include: Fort McMurray Literacy
Festival; Many Tribes, One Nation; Canada Day festivities; annual Blueberry
Festival; the Interplay Festival; Harvest Carnival, Heritage Days; Festival of
Trees and many others.
4579
Fort McMurray is also home to the Keyano Theatre which has been the
centre of arts and culture in the region for 25 years. Keyano Theatre offers a four‑play
subscription season along with the Syncrude Arts Alive series which features
national and international performers throughout the year.
4580
The Lounge will play a vital role through public service announcements to
assist these important organizations and festivals with awareness and
fundraising.
4581
We strongly believe that radio is a public service and The Lounge will
take that role very seriously.
4582
MR. LARSEN: 84.4 percent of
the adults we surveyed said "exposure and promotion of Canadian artists" is
important.
4583
Our Canadian talent development starts first and foremost with
airplay.
4584
A cornerstone of our indirect CTD initiatives is a commitment to play new
Canadian music. We propose that at
least 50 percent of our Canadian content will be songs released in 2000 or
later. This guarantees airplay of a
high percentage of newer Canadian songs and artists. This initiative is unique and exclusive
to our application.
4585
Further, to demonstrate our commitment to Canadian music, we will play 40
percent Canadian content over the broadcast week.
4586
Canadian artists have told us clearly what they need from radio is very
simple: airplay and exposure. The Lounge will ensure this through
these two commitments.
4587
We are firm believers in Canadian talent development, both direct
financial support and, equally important, non‑monetary
means.
4588
Our direct CTD contribution will be $87,500 over the initial licence term
which is a significant amount of money for a new company.
4589
100 percent of our direct CTD will stay in the Fort McMurray region. Our annual proposals
include:
4590
Post‑secondary music and journalism bursaries for Fort McMurray
students;
4591
Purchase of music instruments for Fort McMurray
schools;
4592
Funding to FACTOR, which Canadian artists told us is a critical source of
funding for development of their music, and our FACTOR contributions will come
back to northern Alberta artists;
4593
Our original song competition will be of direct benefit to local and
regional artists;
4594
And we have outlined in our application support for a number of other
Fort McMurray initiatives.
4595
Our direct CTD commitments will be supported by significant on air
promotional support, website exposure and other marketing.
4596
MR. VOLPATI: We also propose
two significant indirect CTD initiatives; first is "The Indie Lounge", a weekly
one‑hour program focusing on independent Canadian music. While we will be highly supportive of
Canadian music throughout our programming, The Indie Lounge will give us a
platform to explore artists more thoroughly.
4597
Second, is a unique educational proposal which we call "Future
Broadcasters". If licensed, The
Lounge will place students in actual paid jobs that will assist them in their
education and development of their radio skills. These positions will include on air,
news and production.
4598
Alberta's leading post‑secondary broadcast education institutions have
reviewed our plan and will work with us to make our Future Broadcasters
initiative a reality. Our industry
is facing a shortage of skilled performers, created in large part by the
elimination of positions in favour of voice tracking and automation. We are committed to helping replenish
the pool of future broadcasters through this initiative.
4599
MS DANIEL: Fort McMurray is
a culturally‑diverse city. It is
home to one of the most northern Muslim mosques in the world, a Canadian Chinese
school and an aboriginal friendship centre.
4600
The Multicultural Association of Fort McMurray is an umbrella
organization which promotes ethnic diversity. In addition, there are over a dozen
individual organizations that promote and offer activities and services relating
to multicultural interests within Fort
McMurray.
4601
The Lounge has already reached out to Fort McMurray's ethnic population
and if licensed we will ensure that our programming is inclusive of Fort
McMurray's entire population.
4602
Our news department will take into account the ethnic diversity of Fort
McMurray and establish contact with the city's cultural communities to ensure
The Lounge includes their news in our programming.
4603
Fort McMurray has a rich First Nations history. We will make a strong effort to foster a
cooperative and open relationship with the aboriginal populations in the
region.
4604
Our music format lends itself perfectly to reflecting cultural
diversity. The vast and varied
music styles that comprise The Lounge include artists and musicians from every
background and region of Canada and beyond. We will encourage Canadian artists of
all backgrounds to submit new music for airplay
consideration.
4605
MR. LARSEN: Fort McMurray's
economy is unlike any other, driven by the oil sands. Some $54 billion in oil sands projects
alone are expected to be completed by 2011. The oil sands are expected to generate
nearly two million barrels of crude oil per day, representing more than half of
Canada's projected total crude oil production. By 2020 that total is predicted to
double.
4606
Common economic indicators such as GDP, income levels and employment in
the region are off the map, well ahead of national averages. However, this is due mainly to the
disproportionately high weight the oil sands projects have in the economic
picture of the region. This does
makes it difficult to analyze the true economy of the region, so one has to take
the "on the surface" numbers and do a deeper analysis to get a better
understanding of the market. We
believe the economy is healthy and growing but are well aware that the red hot
oil boom is not the entire picture.
4607
The rapid pace of economic and population change has taken some toll on
the area, particularly in housing.
If licensed, we will be cognizant of the whole picture and do our best to
help make the community an even better place to live and do
business.
4608
Fort McMurray is growing rapidly due to the oil sands projects. The population growth since 2001 has
been staggering. The 2001 federal
census showed a total population of 41,466 for the regional municipality of Wood
Buffalo which includes Fort McMurray.
The 2005 municipal census indicates that population has grown to 73, 176,
a 76 percent increase in only five years.
4609
The largest percentage increases have occurred within the 45‑plus
demographics, the target audience for The Lounge.
4610
As you can see on the graph on the screen, the 2005 municipal census
shows the Wood Buffalo/Fort McMurray population of adults aged 45 and up totals
19,172 and increased 42.9 percent between 2002 and 2005. By comparison, those aged zero to 44
increased only 20.3 percent.
4611
MR. VOLPATI:
Fort McMurray is served by
two local commercial FM radio stations, CJOK and CKYX, both currently owned by
the O.K. Radio Group. There is also
the CBC Radio One service and the provincial CKUA network.
4612
Ownership and market tuning is obviously dominated by O.K. Radio's two
stations as they are really the only local choice. According to our research study, 60.2
percent of those aged 35‑64 tune into those two
stations.
4613
The Lounge will increase local tuning among adults, attracting listeners
with a format that is not available today.
We will repatriate listeners from satellite and cable, internet radio,
CDs and MP3s and people who have given up on radio because they have been unable
to find their music.
4614
16.8 percent of the Fort McMurray adults we surveyed did not have a
favourite radio station. We believe
The Lounge will be able to fill that void without impacting any existing
stations.
4615
Our research shows that 90.5 percent of 36 to 64 year olds would
definitely or probably listen to our proposed radio station, The Lounge, and of
those 34.4 percent indicated the station would become their
favourite.
4616
93.9 percent of those surveyed feel The Lounge would be a positive
addition to the radio spectrum in Fort McMurray, regardless of whether they
would or would not listen to the station themselves.
4617
MR. LARSEN: Our group has
given this application considerable thought and extensive planning. We invested in research to double check
our instincts.
4618
Our proposed station will bring a new format to Fort McMurray, one with
virtually no overlap with existing stations.
4619
We will provide significant news and other spoken word elements that are
important to our target audience.
4620
And we recognize that operating a radio station does mean operating a
public service. Community service
will be the foundation upon which our company and our radio station is
built.
4621
We realize that you do not often have a chance at this stage to hear the
radio stations you are considering for licence. With that in mind, we would like to use
the last three minutes of our presentation to play you a brief sample of The
Lounge 94.3.
‑‑‑ Audio presentation /
Présentation audio
4622
MR. LARSEN: That audio
sample meets every CRTC regulation.
It was 47 percent hit, 53 percent non‑hit, 40 percent Canadian content
and 50 percent of the Canadian songs were from 2000 or later per our unique
initiative to play newer Canadian music.
The audio sample shows how well we will be able to mix our proposed music
genres to create a really engaging radio
station.
4623
We are proud of this application.
We feel it is unique and innovative, qualities that we think are
essential to the future of Canadian radio.
We are young, experienced career broadcasters with 30 or more working
years ahead of us to create compelling radio and we are hopeful to have that
opportunity by being licensed to operate "The Lounge
94.3".
4624
Thank you for your attention and we are looking forward to your
questions.
4625
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Larsen.
4626
I am asking Commissioner Cram to ask the first
questions.
4627
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you.
4628
I will address my questions to you, Mr. Larsen, and then you can pass
them over to wherever ‑‑ whomever you wish.
4629
MR. LARSEN: Thank
you.
4630
COMMISSIONER CRAM: I wanted
to talk about your target demo. You
say on the second‑last page of your presentation today that 90.5 percent of 35
to 64 year olds would definitely or probably listen to this radio station. Is that your target demo or is your
target demo 45‑plus?
4631
MR. LARSEN: When we did the
research we picked 35‑64 to have a target group that was identifiable as a BBM
type of sell. 45‑plus would be our
focused target. We think we will
have some 35 to 45 year olds that listen but they would not necessarily be our
focus.
4632
So the focus of the radio station would be targeted to adults 45 and
older.
4633
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. And I am sure you have
been listening to Grande Prairie.
What would be the median age?
4634
MR. LARSEN: I have given
that quite a bit of thought in the last couple of days. I suspect somewhere around 48 to
49.
4635
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. Male? Female?
4636
MR. LARSEN: We believe that
this format is going to attract pretty much an even distribution of men and
women.
4637
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
4638
So if I have got it right, if you are going for 45 and over, you are
essentially trying to attract the 19,172 people?
4639
MR. LARSEN:
Exactly.
4640
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Yes.
4641
MR. LARSEN: We felt that
there was enough population there looking at that total number who are not
directly targeted by radio today and if we focus on that exclusive number we
would have a good opportunity to attract a healthy proportion of
them.
4642
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And what
about demographics in the future? Have you looked at what would happen to
this 45‑plus? I mean, what are the
projections? I guess you can look
at what it is now and what baby boomers are going into the
45‑plus.
4643
MR. LARSEN: I think what is
happening is exactly that, we are on the beginning of this dramatic shift in
demographics and people are turning 45 and 50 and 60 at a rapid pace and it's
been well publicized and that same phenomenon that is happening worldwide is
certainly happening in Fort McMurray as well. Any of the projections that we have
looked at are general projections of how the overall population is anticipated
to grow, but we suspect the 45‑plus portion would grow in proportion to the rest
of the population.
4644
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. You should be in
Saskatchewan. We have an over
population of the higher, older demographics.
4645
So if you are looking at somebody 45 and over how many of those do you
think would be attracted to some of this ‑‑ I will call it the "older
music", Sinatra, Pat Boone?
4646
MR. LARSEN: What we have
kind of found is people that are 45 years old, even to a lot of them Frank
Sinatra is new music because it's a little bit earlier than what they grew up
with. Definitely, the younger, even
younger than 45 are attracted to a lot of this music, I think primarily because
of the some young guys that remaking this music now like the Michael Bublés and
Rod Stewart has now done four or five of his American Songbook revival
records.
4647
So the old classics, the Sinatras and the Ella Fitzgeralds and the Ray
Charles are really kind of that
spice that would happen in our format that are worldwide phenomenon artists
that ‑‑ you know, like the Elvises.
There is nobody else like them so they will add a lot of spice and then
the rest of the music is our glue.
4648
We have a healthy proportion of music from the seventies that that
45‑year old would have grown up with and the neat thing with a lot of the new
music that is being redone is that these artists are redoing popular songs. So it is brand new music from a brand
new artist but there is still some familiarity there, which is important to that
45 and older crowd.
4649
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
4650
Now, and I understand that you have actually ‑‑ you have this modern
nostalgia format in Parksville, do you?
4651
MR. LARSEN: In my current
capacity as the President of Island Radio, Parksville is one of our radio
stations. It used to be a
repeater. We decided to super serve
the adult population in that region by putting The Lounge on the air. So yes, it is a current on‑the‑air
station in Parksville, B.C. right now.
4652
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Now, the
competitive situation is different from Parksville to Fort McMurray. Do you think that would make a
difference in the reaction to this kind of format?
4653
MR. LARSEN: I don't think
so. I think that we will be
relatively alone in the upper end of the spectrum, particularly the
45‑plus. Certainly, a classic hits
is a 35‑50, kind of playing in that same ‑‑ a lot of people call it the
"sweet spot", I guess.
4654
But I think we have developed a format and we are the only applicant that
is exclusively targeting that portion of the population. So I think regardless in Fort McMurray,
being on our own we will have a good opportunity to attract an
audience.
4655
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Probably
your main competition would be CBC, I guess, or
CKUA?
4656
MR. LARSEN: And the CKUA, I
think that's likely the case.
4657
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And the
interesting thing about that is that your news is four hours and 33 minutes and
you say "on the hour"?
4658
MR. LARSEN: That's
correct. We would do news on the
half‑hour and morning drive and then hourly through the balance of the
day.
4659
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And how
long would that news package, exclusive of weather and sports and traffic
be?
4660
MR. LARSEN: The way I broke
down our spoken word ‑‑ that is exclusively news?
4661
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Yes.
4662
MR. LARSEN: Our morning
newscasts would run four minutes in length, three‑minute updates at the bottom
of the hour; the afternoon from midday period on would be two minutes, and then
four minutes again at noon, four and five.
But that's exclusively news and then sports and weather would be an
additional component.
4663
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Yes.
4664
Am I understanding, and you know, I am just saying my understanding is
that the older you get the more interested you are in news and this doesn't
sound like what this demographic would want in terms of news, that they would
want something more?
4665
MR. LARSEN: In fact, we have
not commissioned our own research on this topic but there has been a lot of
publicity about this exact topic in the industry trades lately, a lot of it
coming from the United States but I think it is applicable here
too.
4666
ABC Radio Networks in the United States just launched an FM news service
and targeted to adults and their research showed that what the adults actually
want is basically the headlines and the raw details and not the in‑depth
information because they are still newspaper consumers, they are still
television newscast watchers. But
throughout their workday when they are in the car they want to have a cursory
overview of what is going on in the world on an hourly basic and, most
importantly in a community like Fort McMurray, they want to know what is
happening in their community, which would be our focus with our
news.
4667
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. So you are really
targeting, if I can say, the non‑CBC types?
4668
MR. LARSEN: I think what we
would do is we would complement the CBC and the CKUA really nicely. I think we would have a lot of
cross‑tuning with those two networks and we would be an alternative choice for
the consumer that perhaps wanted to hear music and some headlines and then they
go back to the CBC for maybe some of the longer form
programming.
4669
COMMISSIONER CRAM: What
would be your goal in terms of ‑‑ you say, you know, they want news and
they want local news. What would be
your goal in terms of local news as a proportion of total
news?
4670
MR. LARSEN: We were asked
that question in deficiencies and in our response I indicated 90 percent, which
seems like a high number but we or, I guess, I should say "I", classify local
news as not only what is happening in Fort McMurray but the overall Wood Buffalo
region. Northern Alberta we would
classify as local news and then our regional would basically include southern
Alberta, British Columbia; western Canada, national and international making up
the balance. So 90 sounds high off
the top but it does include some regional.
4671
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. And how would you
collect ‑‑ like you would probably subscribe to broadcast news but then how
would you collect the Alberta news?
4672
MR. LARSEN: A lot of news
collecting nowadays is because we live in this instant society with ‑‑ the
internet is a tremendous resource to look at sites for sourcing southern Alberta
news, maybe the Calgary Herald or the Lethbridge Herald. The bigger stories generally make it on
the wire through the broadcast news service. They have excellent regional reporters
in the region.
4673
Perhaps we would try to establish contact with some other private
commercial radio stations to see if they would be interested in sharing news
content in the sense that if there was a big Fort McMurray story, perhaps we
could file it to a Red Deer station potentially and vice versa, have an informal
kind of network, networking idea put together like that to share some news
content.
4674
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And I see
in terms of the ‑‑ I am going to call it programming and news staff ‑‑
you have a total of six; three news journalists, two anchors and one
reporter. Is that it for
programming and news?
4675
MR. LARSEN: The six fulltime
positions would be exactly that; three dedicated to news; a morning show program
director; a midday and afternoon drive and the midday and drive announcers
initially would handle some double duties like
production.
4676
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Now, in
terms of content, your programming, how much ‑‑ and you did have a schedule
but if you can just give me the hours of voice tracking during the regulated
day?
4677
MR. LARSEN: Yes, we would
intend to be live from six p.m. ‑‑ or sorry, from six a.m. through to six
p.m. at a minimum when we wrote this application. We would hope to do more eventually but
given the business plan we confidently know we can do six a.m. to six p.m.
initially, and then hopefully as we build the business add some evening live to
that component.
4678
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. So the question was
how much time is going to be voice tracked during the regulated
time?
4679
MR. LARSEN: Sorry, seven
p.m. to midnight Monday to Friday and four p.m. to midnight on Saturday and
Sunday.
4680
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And now
the syndicated programming, how much will that be during the regulated
week?
4681
MR. LARSEN: It will be one
hour seven nights a week scheduled at nine p.m. and that's the classic old time
radio shows.
4682
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Did you
make a deal with CBC? At least in
your application you said you were hopeful.
4683
MR. LARSEN: We have not had
a firm commitment back from the CBC.
Our original discussion got bogged down in their labour dispute
earlier.
4684
We have had some interesting dialogue in that typically the woman that we
are dealing with said typically, the answer is a flat out "no" right out of the
gate. She was intrigued by our
application and was to take it up the management chain a little bit and try to
get a decision. So to the best of
my knowledge that discussion is still going on. If we are fortunate enough to be
licensed in the market at some point in time we will definitely pursue
that.
4685
Our goal with the CBC programming was on Sunday nights they have a
program called "Sunday Showcase" which is one‑hour radio drama but it's Canadian
produced. It is Canadian actors and
that type of material is almost impossible to source outside of the
CBC.
4686
What we proposed to CBC was a cooperative relationship where we would
co‑brand with them, we would promote when the show is available on the CBC
network and really give them top line billing on that Sunday night show and use
us as a vehicle to expose that Canadian drama content to a broader audience than
just the CBC. So we are hopeful
that the CBC will work with us.
4687
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Now, this
is June. The strike was in
October. Have you followed up at
all?
4688
MR. LARSEN: Well, the wheels
of motion at the CBC tend to be a little bit slow from what I have been able to
experience, though we do get email communication from time to time and I have
been led to believe that we are still in ‑‑ we haven't got a firm "yes" or
"no" which, in my opinion, is still a good thing.
4689
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So in
terms of the regulated hours that are not voice tracked or syndicated what will
not be locally produced?
4690
MR. LARSEN: Everything in
those live hours will be locally produced.
4691
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
4692
The one‑hour magazine and then the one on the weekend that too will be
locally produced?
4693
MR. LARSEN: That's
right. Our news director and
morning anchor would be responsible for putting that content together. The noon‑hour show would be a
community‑type show.
4694
So we would have ‑‑ a lot of the content would be people from the
community coming in to be interviewed, you know, at an average of maybe between
four and seven minutes. So we could
fill that hour quite effectively by talking to community groups, non‑profits,
starts in entertainment type of interviews.
4695
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And so
the weekend one is that just a collection of what has happened on the week,
during the week?
4696
MR. LARSEN: What I sort of
envision for the weekend show is exactly that, almost like a best of the
interviews from the week and if there are specific big events going on, on a
particular weekend, that we would insert that new content into the weekend
edition.
4697
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
4698
At the end of the day, you said you had 22 hours of news, information,
lifestyle, radio, drama. If times
get tough or if we over licence in the market, what goes
first?
4699
MR. LARSEN: Well, the spoken
word would be the last to go in my opinion because it is critical to attracting
that local audience. Local news and
information and that local content is so
critical.
4700
A lot of that content, too, we would source from, again, community‑type
people. So our stock market report
might be a local person who works for Wood Gundy that would phone in the report,
that type of thing. So we are not
relying strictly on our own staff to do it.
4701
We are already proposing evening voice tracking. So I think our business plan would hold
up and I would be hopeful that we wouldn't have to cut in any
case.
4702
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. So the question is if
you have to cut what goes first?
4703
MR. LARSEN: If we had to cut
I suspect we would first look at something like automating or voice tracking the
midday hours where we were still live in the morning show and live in the
afternoon drive.
4704
COMMISSIONER CRAM: In the
drive, okay.
4705
Now, you are ‑‑ if we gave you a licence for Fort McMurray you would
be a standalone?
4706
MR. LARSEN:
Yes.
4707
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And you
also talked about the fact that your CTD was smaller because you are a small
company.
4708
MR. LARSEN:
M'hm.
4709
COMMISSIONER CRAM: You are
going head to head with O.K. who has two, two stations there; potentially Rogers
that is a very big ‑‑
4710
MR. LARSEN:
Yes.
4711
COMMISSIONER CRAM: ‑‑ company. That's if you are listening, Gary Miles,
if.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4712
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Tell me
how you think you can survive in a market like that, and don't forget that, you
know, if it appears that you are right about your demographic, Rogers could just
as easily change their ‑‑ Rogers and/or O.K. could just as easily change
their format.
4713
MR. LARSEN: I designed this
format in the hopes that we would be, for the most part, on our own pursuing
it. My fear at these hearings is
that somebody is going to think it's a good idea and jump on it before we have
the opportunity.
4714
We feel we can compete as a standalone because we have identified a
target audience that the mainstream players aren't going after. So we are hopeful that they will
maintain, as they constantly say they will maintain their current formats and
not do format changes in anticipation of new
licences.
4715
So we are hopeful that that is true so that when it comes time, if we are
fortunate enough to be licensed that that audience is still available for us to
go after.
4716
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Yes.
4717
Should Rogers purchase be approved I note that they have started a talk
format in Calgary.
4718
MR. LARSEN:
Yes.
4719
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Very
money intensive initially but would that ‑‑ if they had one of their
stations here as a talk station, would that impact you more severely than
anything else?
4720
MR. LARSEN: I don't think
so. I think the talk station
definitely has its own niche for people that want constant information. I think we would stick to our business
plan and I really don't think that it would impact. The people that want the spurts of
information would stick with us or I think what happens with news stations, even
the way they promote it; listen two, three, four times a day, is intended to
draw an audience for a brief period of time and then they drift back to their
favourite station.
4721
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes, good
point.
4722
Under Cancon it is 40 percent and 50 percent of all music will be newer
than 1981, and of that 50 percent will be newer than 2000.
4723
MR. LARSEN:
Right.
4724
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Would you
accept that as a COL?
4725
MR. LARSEN: Yes, we
would.
4726
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. CTD: $2,000 bursary for somebody in
broadcasting. Now, you are aware
that ‑‑ I'm sure this question has been asked of you
before ‑‑
4727
MR. LARSEN:
Yes.
4728
COMMISSIONER CRAM: ‑‑ because you probably proposed the same. It is possible it is not CTD, official
CTD.
4729
Would you be willing to redirect the money should we decide to licence
you and also decide that this is not CTD?
4730
MR. LARSEN: Yes, we
would. We would direct it to a
journalism bursary which we know would count as CTD.
4731
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes. Now, how would the monies be distributed
for the other ‑‑ the other CTD; the Rotary Music Festival, the song
competition?
4732
MR. LARSEN: Those came up in
our deficiencies because one of our proposed initial contributions was deemed
perhaps not to be fitting within the CTD criterion so we did propose back these
additional ones.
4733
We see those as annual cash contributions to those organizations directly
but with the stipulation that the money does go toward Canadian talent
development. So whether it's a
showcase, each of those events that we identified; the Rotary Music Festival,
our original song contest and Music in Schools, can clearly fit into Canadian
talent development.
4734
COMMISSIONER CRAM: On
FACTOR, and I think you said it in the file and also today, contribution will
come back to northern Alberta artists.
Now, you did include a letter but it was not in my copy of the
file.
4735
Does it refer to the fact that the monies would be incremental to those
otherwise allocated to Alberta and that it will remain in Alberta even though
the one year has elapsed?
4736
MR. LARSEN: Can I just read
the letter? It's a short
one.
4737
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Yes,
sure.
4738
MR. LARSEN: It's from
Heather Ostertag:
"Dear Ms Rume, I am writing this
letter in support of the above‑mentioned application 2005‑1107‑3, Fort McMurray,
Alberta on a non‑exclusive basis that if this application is approved 1182743
Alberta Ltd. will be contributing $1,000 annually for the first license term to
FACTOR in support of Canadian talent.
In this regard I am pleased to confirm that 1182743 Alberta Ltd.'s total
contribution of $7,000 over the seven‑year licence term can be reserved for
northern Alberta artists." (As read)
4739
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So it is
not incremental to money that otherwise would have gone to Alberta
artists?
4740
MR. LARSEN: It is the best
commitment that I was able to get from FACTOR. I understand that this is their standard
reply to request to direct funding to a specific
area.
4741
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Unless
they are pressed.
4742
MR. LARSEN: I am not big
enough to press them yet.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires.
4743
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
4744
Numbers, finances; you said in your supplementary brief that you did
research into average salaries for the market. Now, I recognize that time has moved
on.
4745
MR. LARSEN:
Sure.
4746
COMMISSIONER CRAM: What do
you believe are the average salaries for the market now ‑‑ not average but
the range, I guess.
4747
MR. LARSEN: Sure. Some of the key salaries are higher than
what we would see in a market of that size, for sure; program director, perhaps
news director; those key positions where from what I have been able to gather
O.K. Radio has had to increase salaries as the cost of living has
increased.
4748
Some of the announcer positions are not that far off from markets like
Lethbridge or Medicine Hat or Red Deer, which are similar‑size markets. They may be incrementally larger but
even on a percentage basis if a midday announcer, say on average is making
$2,000 a month, if the average is 10 percent higher in Fort McMurray it is an
extra $200. It is not enough to
throw our business plan out of commission.
4749
So we are confident that we will be able to attract staff. It may be a younger staff which we would
endeavour to really teach them our format and how to communicate properly with
adults, but we will deal with that Fort McMurray specific if and when we have
the opportunity to address it.
4750
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And what
is the factor, what percentage factor for, say, the news director or the
manager? Is it 10 percent, 20
percent?
4751
MR. LARSEN: Again, dealing
with sort of loose numbers because certainly I didn't phone the manager at CJOK
and ask what he pays his news director but through people that have worked at
the station in the past that we have had an opportunity to talk to and whatnot
the news director could be upwards of 20 percent higher than, say, in a
Lethbridge type of market to attract a qualified candidate with some
experience.
4752
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. And studio
rental ‑‑ I think it is at page 47.
You said $12. I am assuming
that is triple net?
4753
MR. LARSEN:
Right.
4754
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Like the
vacancy rate has to be ‑‑ well, the residential vacancy rate is
zero.
4755
MR. LARSEN: The residential
vacancy rate is zero.
4756
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Yes.
4757
MR. LARSEN: The commercial
vacancy rate is not quite zero.
When I projected that number of $12 that was being able to find two
locations approximately one year ago.
I have not had the opportunity to pursue that in a one year later basis
but that $12 triple net on that size of space was confirmed a year
ago.
4758
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
4759
On your CTD, and I just sort of wanted to ask you philosophically, you
say you are proposing a small amount of money because you are a small
company. Should that be the way
that we look at it or should it be that the Fort McMurray market is a fairly
lucrative ‑‑ in fact, more than average lucrative market and for what you
are getting you are not putting enough back?
4760
MR. LARSEN: Right. It is unfortunate for us that we don't
know how lucrative the market is.
We sort of have to take a guess on markets that aren't published. We are also targeting an age demographic
and a format that is not going to be as lucrative financially, at least in the
early going as some of the mainstream players that are going to be right in the
key demos for revenue growth.
4761
One of the criteria in the licence COL is that we present a strong
business plan and I feel that part of the strength of our business plan is that
we need to see this licence through the early stages, through the first few
years of perhaps some operating losses and we are just not at this point big
enough to sustain four or five or six years of six figure losses because of a
huge CTD contribution.
4762
I guess I also looked at where is the balance? This was a point of discussion that was
raised in the radio review and I was fortunate enough to be asked to come to
Ottawa and present my thoughts on the radio review and I did so verbally and in
written form as well.
4763
I think this point of discussion is an interesting one because there is a
tremendous imbalance between what the big companies with many, many stations and
a lot of money can offer and what a new entrant can offer. In fact, the incumbent stations are
required to contribute $400 annually as the CAB plan in that market size. So our contribution of ‑‑ I think
it is 10 ‑‑ is it 10.5 per year ‑‑ is 30 times what the incumbent
renewal rate would be after the seven‑year licence term.
4764
So I think in terms of our business plan in Fort McMurray, I base the CTD
number after I determine what our revenue would be and what our programming and
operational expenses would be and then what is a realistic and fair but still
significant contribution for Canadian talent.
4765
So that is where my train of thought was when I came up with the
numbers.
4766
COMMISSIONER CRAM: On that
issue of not being a large company you talked about the construction up to 2011,
and I have got to say my information which comes from our staff is that is when
all the major construction will be completed, at which point the economic boom
will not be bust but will certainly be slower.
4767
MR. LARSEN:
Right.
4768
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And so
you have got a couple of years to make hay.
4769
MR. LARSEN:
M'hm.
4770
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And then
there might be slim pickings.
4771
MR. LARSEN: Right. I think in the construction field,
particularly, that is where we are seeing these huge increases in the younger
end of the demographic. So young
guys in their twenties, basically, that are coming to Fort McMurray to work for
a few years make a tremendous amount of money and when the construction is
finished they will return to where they came from.
4772
The 45‑plus population, in large part many of them are long‑time
residents of Fort McMurray and the people that are in their late thirties and
early forties now that will be 45 or older in 2011 plan for the most part to
remain in the community where they grew up and have businesses and raise their
kids. So we think that when the
population peaks and comes back down again it is going to be on the younger end
of the exodus and a lot of the older people who love it there will
stay.
4773
COMMISSIONER CRAM: How many
stations do you believe the Fort McMurray market can
handle?
4774
MR. LARSEN: Again, I think
it kind of depends on the revenue.
If the revenues ‑‑ when I heard the numbers bantered around for
Grande Prairie I almost fell off my chair because by traditional standards that
market would be nowhere close to an $8 or $9 or $10 million
market.
4775
In Fort McMurray, using the traditional methods that we would take in
retail sales and multiplying out a factor and everything else, I came up with a
figure of about $3.5 million in terms of the radio revenue available in that
market. I may be way off base. I have no way of knowing, obviously,
because it is not published.
4776
If it is $3.5 million, if that is the market, I think there is
comfortably room for one new player.
If it is substantially more than $3.5 million then I think we can start
looking at more than one licence.
4777
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Substantially meaning $5 million?
4778
MR. LARSEN: I think at $5
million we could have two stations.
4779
COMMISSIONER CRAM: What
would be your nightmare licensing situation?
4780
MR. LARSEN: Three or
more. If I can, I will quickly get
into where my nightmare situation in terms of our own company is ‑‑ because
we don't have any radio licenses at this point in time. We may end up only with Fort
McMurray. That is a difficult
business plan for us and that is why, you know, we have stated at hearings that
we are here to build a new company and we have applied previously in Calgary and
Lethbridge. That hearing has
happened already. We will be an
applicant for ‑‑ sorry ‑‑ in Medicine Hat. So we are hoping to build a larger
company.
4781
Nightmare would be us getting Fort McMurray by itself with two other
competitors plus the two incumbents.
That would be ‑‑ I would be grey or bald or dead, working at Tim
Horton's part time to make ends meet.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4782
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Now, the
alternate frequency question. You
know that one.
4783
MR. LARSEN: I did have the
opportunity to speak with our consulting engineer. There are, in addition to the frequency
we picked, four other frequencies, channel 263B which is 100.5; 279B, 103.7;
283B, 104.5 and 290B, 105.9. All
four of those would operate on the CBC site which we have approval to be on at
the same wattage and the same antenna, so no impact on our business plan to pick
one of those four other frequencies.
4784
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Okay,
thank you.
4785
MR. LARSEN: Thank
you.
4786
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Mr.
Chair.
4787
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Commissioner Cugini.
4788
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Good
morning, just one question.
4789
Mr. Larsen, you did mention your presence and participation in the radio
review and, as you know, there was some discussion over the definition of
independent artist.
4790
And Mr. Volpati, I believe you mentioned in the opening statement this
morning that you would be providing a weekly one‑hour programming focusing on
independent Canadian music.
4791
What do you mean by that?
4792
MR. LARSEN: I define
independence by artists that are not signed with a major label or even a major
distributed label, an independent who is promoting their own music
basically.
4793
When we look at the artists, the Canadian artists that make up The Lounge
format, by and large they all have their own label. They are producing their own music. They don't have major distribution
deals. So we think easily we will
be able to focus that show on those types of artists and not the artists that
are signed to big deals.
4794
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Would
some of these artists come from the Fort McMurray area? Have you been able to do that kind of
research to see if that kind of talent is available?
4795
MR. LARSEN: We are
hopeful. The premise of our
original song competition that we proposed in the license is to exactly find out
who is out there in Fort McMurray and see if there are some artists there. One, I spent 15 years in country music
as a programmer and Aaron Lyons is a young Canadian country music start that
came out of Fort McMurray.
4796
So we find a lot of times in the small towns it is just that talent has
trouble getting their voice heard.
So we are hopeful we can find some talent in Fort McMurray and give them
some exposure.
4797
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank
you.
4798
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4799
MR. LARSEN: Thank
you.
4800
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Commissioner Langford.
4801
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
4802
I just wanted to ask you about your format choice. We saw this choice in Calgary as
well. I was on that panel and we
saw it, which doesn't mean that it's worn out or anything like that but it seems
to me that you took great pride then and now in the sense that you have more or
less developed this from scratch, and that's a good thing. You are out there. You are thinking originally and
creatively.
4803
But I wonder, in a sense, whether the kind of very creative kind of
juices that you have got flowing might be working against you a little bit in
the sense that though you have come up with a very different sound you are still
appealing to that same demographic that almost every other applicant here is
trying to appeal to, too. They are
appealing with a different sound but they are scrapping for that same slightly
older market.
4804
And when I look at the StatsCan statistics on this area, the greater
regional area including Fort McMurray, I notice that there is a huge sort of 15
to 24 group as well; 35 percent, maybe even as high as 38 percent; 37 to 38
percent which nobody seems to be looking for. Now, I know the argument they don't have
as much money though they do have their parents' money. But still it's wide
open.
4805
I wonder whether you gave that any thought, that
demographic?
4806
MR. LARSEN: Sure. I mean, we thought long and hard when we
looked at Fort McMurray about proposing this format in a market where the
demographics trend younger. I think
the general consensus that the young kids have given up on radio puts a fear
into everybody that they don't want to pursue that as a target
audience.
4807
In our case, what we have done, and on purpose, is identified a format
and it's been our consistent format in each application for a very specific
reason, that we want to be experts in this format coming out of the gate and
hopefully build some momentum and then, at some point in time, if we are lucky
enough to have several licenses in a few years under our belts, start looking at
other formats that we would be good at programming.
4808
In this case, we can focus our complete attention on developing this
product; programming a consistent brand in multiple markets for an age
demographic that we know is going to rapidly increase over the next few
years. If we can be a little bit
ahead of the gate and be the experts in serving that audience we can fend off
any competitors that want to kind of push into our territory later down the
road.
4809
I kind of liken it to ‑‑ one of the companies that I have great
respect for is WestJet Airlines.
They started out flying only 737s 10 years ago with a very specific
market plan. Today, they fly only
737s. Their pilots all know how to
operate the plane. Their mechanics
all know how to fix the planes. Everything is consistent.
4810
So for a young company out of the gate applying for four applications in
a pretty short period of time, we feel we can be super focused and more
successful by concentrating our energy and focus in this direction right
now.
4811
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So is
your plan then, simply put, has your plan been to come up with a format and then
look around for towns that dovetail with that format?
4812
MR. LARSEN: In complete
honesty, how it all came about was the call for ‑‑
4813
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: We
always like complete ‑‑
4814
MR. LARSEN: I
know ‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4815
MR. LARSEN: ‑‑ real world examples was, I think, Commissioner
Cugini in Ottawa.
4816
It all came about with the call for Calgary and I had spent quite a
number of years in the Calgary market as a program director. Mr. Volpati had spent 14 years in
Calgary. So it was an attractive
market to apply and the demographics there clearly showed that that audience was
wide open. So that was the start of
our applications.
4817
Shortly before the deadline to file Calgary there was a call in
Lethbridge and so we ‑‑ Lethbridge is in close proximity to Calgary; look
at the demographics. It makes
sense. Let's do it there too. A week later there is a call for Fort
McMurray. Well, we are going to be
on a heck of a roll here. Alberta
is great.
4818
So I looked at the demographics in Fort McMurray. On the surface it was a bit scary but
looking deeper, knowing that there were close to 20,000 people over 45, we
thought we could make a good business plan there, and shortly after that
Medicine Hat.
4819
So it has really been more that there has been all these calls for new
applications that are triggering us to be here for the third time
now.
4820
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: But
to me, analogies are always a bad thing but you are like, you know, the prince
wandering around with Cinderella's slipper looking for somebody's foot to fit
it. And your initial reaction was
the Fort McMurray foot did not fit but you have squeezed it a little and maybe
stretched the slipper.
4821
You are sure about your digging deeper here that there is enough of a
market, because we are looking at some pretty professional groups with a long,
long history and nobody, nobody is touching your territory at
all?
4822
MR. LARSEN: That is
true. They are searching for a
demographic that is perhaps more lucrative out of the gate and their revenue
projections are certainly, some of them three, close to four times what we are
anticipating. And I think that is
why they are there, is because that is where the money obviously is out of the
gate.
4823
So for us we are confident in being owner/operators that we can make a
good business plan out of what we are doing.
4824
The demographic shift in the world is just fitting into our business plan
nicely. It is just a known fact
that the 45 and 50 and up crowd is going to surpass the under‑45 crowd here
within a few years and that is just a fact of
life.
4825
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Whether the advertisers will be attracted to them is another matter, I
suppose.
4826
Let me paint you another nightmare.
My colleague Commissioner Cram touched on it, but one more nightmare to
keep you up at night thinking.
4827
Hypothetically speaking, assume we licence you but, you know, you are a
newcomer. You have got get a
plant. You have got to get
equipment. It is going to take you
a little time to launch. And before
you launch, one of the incumbents that is up and ready to go says, "You know
what? That Larsen guy is one smart
cookie and we are going to steal his whole idea. We are taking the
lot".
4828
Now, as I say, you touched on that.
How nimble are you and where do you go, because you don't have the
slipper anymore, for sure, to fit to the foot?
4829
MR. LARSEN: We are nimble
enough and funded enough to go back and do some research and find out what the
hole is, if it is CHR, if it is Hot A/C.
I spent 15 years working in country music. That hole is filled in Fort McMurray
currently.
4830
I was an assistant program director at a CHR station which became Hot A/C
in Calgary. I programmed six
different formats in my current role in Vancouver Island. And Mr. Volpati as well has experience
in multiple formats.
4831
So we are confident that we can program and do great radio regardless of
the format. This just happens to be
the business plan that we have set out for ourselves out of the gate. Somebody steals our idea we would
certainly react and compete and see the licence and be grateful to have a
licence.
4832
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And
let the air out of their tires.
4833
MR. LARSEN:
Yes.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4834
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Those
are all my questions.
4835
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
4836
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
counsel.
4837
Commissioner Cram.
4838
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So say we
licence you and we accept this CTD because you are a small company and because
the age demographic is not as lucrative, somebody, O.K. reprograms into modern
nostalgia; you go into CHR, make a bigger bundle of money.
4839
MR. LARSEN:
M'hm.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4840
COMMISSIONER CRAM: That is
an interesting thought.
4841
MR. LARSEN:
It's ‑‑‑
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
4842
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Then, you
know, that is the fault in the ‑‑ I mean, the philosophy of what CTD should
be based on.
4843
MR. LARSEN:
Sure.
4844
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Anyway,
so have you got an answer for that?
4845
MR. LARSEN: It's not our
intent to pursue another format. If
somebody else pushes in that direction I would sort of say it is not our fault
but ‑‑
4846
COMMISSIONER CRAM: You are
making more money.
4847
MR. LARSEN: But my thought
on CTD at the review, what I wrote was that because of this great discrepancy
between what the big companies can offer and the little ones can offer it is the
only component of CTD that doesn't have any kind of regulation or rules or
formula. It is not a percentage of
revenue. It's not ‑‑ there is
no definition so it is kind of up to everybody to pick and choose what it is and
the number keeps getting bigger and bigger and
bigger.
4848
From what we hear from the Commission you are interested in some
diversity of ownership and continuing to see some new players and that type of
thing but eventually if the number keeps growing and that is the benchmark, the
new guys will all be priced out and that is just a simple fact of
life.
4849
So we will see what comes out of the radio review regarding CTD
too.
4850
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you.
4851
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
4852
THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, Mr.
Larsen, you have the last two minutes opportunity that you have to tell us why
you think the Commission should grant you a licence to serve Fort
McMurray.
4853
MR. LARSEN: Thank
you.
4854
26 percent of Fort McMurray and area residents are 45 and older. They total over 19,000 people and it is
a rapidly‑growing demographic.
4855
This mature audience deserves a new radio station custom tailored to them
and businesses that market to this impressive demographic deserve a targeted
radio station to reach this audience.
The Lounge will be both.
4856
We have done our homework and our research both in terms of our proposed
format and our business plan. Our
application meets the criteria outlined in this licence call as well as that
outlined in the Broadcasting Act.
4857
We have presented substantial evidence to support demand for our
station. Approval of our
application will bring a new, independent owner to the system. Our programming will be of the highest
quality and produced locally in Fort McMurray, will reflect and promote Fort
McMurray's cultural diversity. We presented a strong business plan based on
research, experience, financial control and a viable
format.
4858
The Lounge will enhance rather than compete with the current landscape
and we will bring an independent news and information voice to Fort
McMurray. Our Canadian talent
development will benefit new Canadian artists, many who have never been heard on
the radio in Fort McMurray before.
4859
Our unique and exclusive commitment to ensure airplay of newer Canadian
songs and artists and to play 40 percent Canadian content means more Canadian
music and diverse artists on our station.
4860
We have the financial resources to build the facilities, launch and
market The Lounge and see it through its early operating
years.
4861
We are a young, energetic, experienced and well‑funded independent
applicant with many working years ahead of us to contribute to the Canadian
system. We are here at this hearing
because we want to build a new dynamic modern broadcasting company and Fort
McMurray is an important and strategic part of that plan.
4862
Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, I respectfully ask you to give us the
opportunity to be the newest Canadian radio company by granting us a licence in
Fort McMurray and I absolutely appreciate your time and
consideration.
4863
Thank you very much.
4864
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Larsen.
4865
We will break for lunch. You
will all have sufficient time for lunch today because the members of the
Commission have to participate in a discussion with their colleagues in
Ottawa.
4866
So we will resume the hearing at 2:30.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1353 /
Suspension à 1353
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1435 / Reprise
à 1435
4867
THE CHAIRPERSON: We are
resuming. Order,
please.
4868
Madam Secretary, would you introduce the next panel,
please.
4869
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
4870
We will now proceed with Item 12 on the agenda, which is an application
by Standard Radio Inc. for a licence to operate an English‑language FM
commercial radio programming undertaking in Fort McMurray.
4871
The new station would operate on frequency 94.3 MHz (channel 232B) with
an effective radiated power of 20,000 watts (non‑directional antenna/antenna
height of 54 metres).
4872
Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Marty Forbes, who will introduce
his colleagues.
4873
You will then have 20 minutes for your
presentation.
4874
Mr. Forbes.
PRESENTATION /
PRÉSENTATION
4875
MR. FORBES: Thank you
kindly. And good afternoon, Mr.
Chairman and members of the Commission.
4876
Thank you for hearing our team once again.
4877
I would like to re‑introduce my team, as we have a few different people
from our Grande Prairie application yesterday.
4878
Again for the record, my name is Marty Forbes, Vice‑President and General
Manager of Standard's radio stations here in Edmonton.
4879
To my right is Diane Morris, Manager of Finances for Western Canada for
Standard Radio.
4880
To my left is Jane Morrissey, a long‑time veteran of our Sales Department
here and proudly a Newfoundlander who can certainly identify with Fort
McMurray.
4881
To the left of Jane is Betty Selin, Regional News Director for Standard
Radio in Kelowna. Betty will help
us coordinate the news and information needs for the
market.
4882
Behind me is Janet Lazarus from Research Strategy Group in
Toronto.
4883
To the left of Janet is Steve Moore, who will handle programming and
music questions. Steve is the
Program Director of Easy Rock here in Edmonton and a radio veteran of 30
years.
4884
To Janet's right is Tim Murphy, another Standard Radio Edmonton employee,
who works for Team 1260, our Sports radio station.
4885
We are here to apply for a Classic Hits radio station for the city of
Fort McMurray.
4886
"Big, huge, enormous". I am
quoting from the headlines of an Edmonton Journal article just two weeks
ago. Any way you count it, the
amount of cash flowing into Fort McMurray's oil sands is
mind‑boggling.
4887
The National Energy Board forecasts $125 billion worth of oil sands
projects are planned between now and 2015.
They are projecting that the demand for workers alone would double, to
26,000, in the next five years and that Fort McMurray's population, which stood
at less than 50,000 just four years ago, will approach the 100,000 number in the
next four years.
4888
Melissa Blake, the Mayor of Fort McMurray is quoted in the article as
saying:
"It is very satisfying, but on the
other hand we could not be any more challenged than we are at this particular
time. So as jobs go, this is the
greatest job ever and it's the worst job ever."
4889
As a matter of fact, just last week the Mayor asked for an embargo on all
future oil development in the area until infrastructure problems have
improved.
4890
Ladies and gentlemen, Fort McMurray is one of the most dynamic cities in
the world and is badly in need of a radio station that connects the community to
the rest of Alberta, the rest of Canada and the rest of the
world.
4891
As well as the obvious gas and oil explosion, it is also a very vibrant
community going through massive growing pains on a day‑to‑day basis. Real estate is expensive; rent is
too. And the legendary highway to
and from Fort McMurray is dangerous and years away from being fully
twinned.
4892
More and more families are either moving to the area or working full or
part‑time in the work camps around the city, often supporting their families in
other areas of Alberta or even back on the east coast of Canada. It's a gold rush of sorts, but the gold
is oil.
4893
It has been several years since the introduction of a new radio service
to the Fort McMurray community.
Currently one operator runs both radio stations and has since day one of
their operations.
4894
OK Radio Group should be recognized for their long and dedicated service
to the community of Fort McMurray.
However, it is time to recognize that the huge growth in the city and
large influx of new residents means a new voice with a very strong background in
news, information and community service would be most
welcome.
4895
In preparing our application, Standard listened to the needs expressed by
many members of this most interesting community for a radio station that will
provide not only a brand new unduplicated music format but a station that is
strong and focused on news and information services.
4896
I will now ask Janet of Research Strategy Group to discuss what our
research project told us about the needs of the listeners in Fort
McMurray.
4897
MS LAZARUS: Thank you,
Marty.
4898
The purpose of our study was to help Standard identify the most
appropriate format for their plans to serve the Fort McMurray radio market. Our study showed that the Classic Hits
format would offer a viable business opportunity for
Standard.
4899
Fully three out of four adults surveyed, 76 percent, said they would try
the Classic Hits format if it became available in the market. Half, 51 percent, said it would become
their first or second choice station, while 29 percent said it would become
their favourite station.
4900
Based on this favourite station response, we would project that a Classic
Hits format has the potential to gain a 29 percent share of listening among
adults 18‑plus in the Fort McMurray radio market. This audience would closely reflect the
demographic profile of area residents.
4901
A Classic Hits station would also add diversity to the market. Among those who indicated that a Classic
Hits format would be their favourite, 82 percent felt that there is no
local radio station that consistently plays the kind of music that suits their
tastes. This dissatisfaction is
further reflected in the fact that 21 percent of potential core listeners to the
Classic Hits format were tuning to non‑local radio on the internet in the week
prior to being interviewed.
4902
Finally, the research indicated that Classic Hits listeners would be
particularly receptive to Standard's plans to leverage the regional and national
news resources for the Fort McMurray radio station. Over three in four, 78 percent, said
that they would like to hear more news on the radio that would connect them to
Alberta and Canada in general.
4903
All in all, the research indicates that Standard's Classic Hits format
would be viable and would add a degree of diversity that would strengthen the
local radio market.
4904
MR. FORBES: Thank you,
Janet.
4905
Now to describe the Classic Hits format we propose, Steve
Moore.
4906
MR. MOORE: The term "Classic
Hits" traditionally brings to mind formats of radio stations across the country
named "Bob", "Joe" or "Jack". This
isn't that. Instead, this is a
radio station that is being custom designed for Fort McMurray ‑‑ a station
that will bring much more variety and musical diversity to the marketplace and a
format featuring songs and artists who are receiving little or no play in the
city today.
4907
The format draws from several charts from over the past 30 or so years,
playing artists like The Eagles, Bryan Adams, Bruce Springsteen and
Madonna. But we will also play 20
percent new music, and 10 to 15 percent of our playlist will be emerging
artists like James Blunt, KT Tunstall, Ben Lee and Daniel
Powter.
4908
Our research shows us that this format will appeal almost equally to
makes and females and this will allow us to look at just about all the record
charts for our variety.
4909
Here is what some future listeners had to say about our proposed new
station when we talk about music and their musical tastes.
‑‑‑ Audio clip / Clip
audio
4910
MR. MOORE: Because Fort
McMurray is affectionately referred to as the third largest city in
Newfoundland, with nearly 20,000 East Coasters in residence, we will add
additional musical diversity by playing 25 percent of our music by East Coast
artists, such as Great Big Sea, The Trues, Bruce Guthro, Mary Jane Lamont and
the East Coast Music Association's male artist of the year, Joel
Plaskett.
4911
As you heard, we are offering a locally produced show called Back to the
Rock, which will further highlight East Coast music while bringing news from
home. This show will be broadcast
on Sunday mornings, immediately following our magazine show, and will be
rebroadcast Sunday evenings. With a
1‑800 phone number we can have families who are separated by time zones and jobs
talking to each other by way of requests and
dedications.
4912
Listeners in Fort McMurray or on the East Coast could access the program
at the same time by way of our streaming audio and share these moments
together.
4913
Most people in this room today will know that Standard Radio has a great
history of supporting Canadian talent across the country. That will continue in Fort
McMurray. Standard Radio station
program directors and music directors were largely responsible for and very
proud of kick‑starting the careers of artists like Daniel Powter, Nickelback,
Amanda Stott, Ron Sexsmith, Tommy Swick, Julie Black and many
others.
4914
Some of these artists have already gone on to international success and
others are poised to do the same.
4915
MR. FORBES: Now I would like
to introduce Jane Morrissey with information on our sales plan for the proposed
Fort McMurray radio station.
4916
MS MORRISSEY: Fort McMurray
and the Wood Buffalo area are the centre of an unprecedented oil sands boom in
Alberta. As said, the municipality
of Wood Buffalo population has almost doubled in the last ten years and expected
to reach 100,000 people. It is a
city and an area of northern Alberta that has a dual life. Billions of dollars in oil‑related
expansion is under way with new announcements almost on a weekly basis, but it
is also a local community growing at truly a break‑neck pace, with business
growth that is happening in virtually area of economics.
4917
Like Grande Prairie, retail spending, population growth, building permits
and new business licences show steady increases year over year and well above
the Canadian national average.
4918
The Financial Post estimates the retail market for 2006 to exceed $770
million. Retail growth is averaging
over 4 percent per year. Many of
the major chains like Canadian Tire, Boston Pizza and Safeway already operate in
Fort McMurray, with more to come.
4919
With no television and limited newspaper advertising, radio is a very
viable advertising medium.
4920
We have talked to customers that have advertised in the Fort McMurray
market and they tell us that the radio rates are some of the highest in the
country for a market of its size.
There is definitely a demand for radio in Fort
McMurray.
4921
With unprecedented growth in Fort McMurray and no new stations in the
last 20 years, we believe there is definitely room for at least one more radio
station.
4922
MR. FORBES: With our news
and information, Betty Selin.
4923
MS SELIN: Our news and
information programming is one of the components that sets this application
apart from the others. Our strength
is our commitment to reflect the community of Fort McMurray and surrounding
area.
4924
Sixty‑eight percent of the adults surveyed said they want more news about
their local community. Sixty‑seven
percent would like to hear more news that connects them to the province and the
country, and we are providing that through a new independent editorial voice in
the market with a network of reporters.
4925
We offer an opportunity for diversity in the market and will provide an
outlet for those who don't currently have a voice like the Family Crisis
Society's Unity House, the United Way and the Nistawoyou Friendship Centre, to
name a few we have talked to, plus the East Coast connection that we have
already touched on.
4926
Our team will focus on local news.
But one of our other advantages is the strength of the Standard Radio
news centres.
4927
There will be 62 newscasts per week, part of more than five and a half
hours of news and public affairs information relevant to our
audience.
4928
We would also have access to our award‑winning network of newsrooms
across the country and especially just across the border in British
Columbia. When news breaks, we will
have access to sources that no one else has.
4929
As well, a partnership with CTV in both Edmonton and Fort McMurray has
been established to allow information to flow between our operations. CTV will provide us with a 90‑second
daily update to include in our Alberta Noon News. This report will highlight information
from the Alberta Legislature and the oil and gas centres in Edmonton and
Calgary.
4930
Major events like provincial or national elections, budgets or any major
government announcements, Standard Radio Fort McMurray would have the ability to
link up with our Standard news centres or our CTV partners to bring news to the
city from the source.
4931
This application offers a unique opportunity, giving a voice to many
groups in the community ‑‑ some I mentioned earlier ‑‑ through our
Sunday morning News Magazine.
Community stringers will be paid to provide content varying from current
issues and community events to an inside look at the many cultures within the
listening area.
4932
And with up to 20,000 East Coasters working in Fort McMurray, many of
whose families are not with them, we want to help connect them to their home
province through a special segment with content provided by the very popular
Down Home Magazine.
4933
We also realize there are many shift workers in Fort McMurray who can't
get local news on the web. Our
website will be driven by Canada's leading interactive company and will include
news, community announcements and podcasting of specialty programming, just one
more way we can help our audience feel connected.
4934
We are also very proud of a new initiative in Aboriginal programming, and
with details on that, Tim Murphy.
4935
MR. MURPHY: As we
highlighted in our Grande Prairie application, we will mirror the entire Sunday
morning News Magazine show and our commitments to serving the Aboriginal
community of the Wood Buffalo region.
4936
Standard Radio is very proud that we have a partnership with Aboriginal
Voices Radio in Toronto which will be rolled out to Fort McMurray. AVR continues to launch their radio
stations across the country, with a goal of reaching First Nations people with
both news and information relevant to Aboriginal residents both in urban centres
and in reserves across all of Canada.
4937
Our plan is to receive special programming directly from the AVR radio
station operating in Toronto that can be edited and presented to the Wood
Buffalo community on our new radio station. We will supplement that programming with
local news and air this on our Sunday morning News Magazine program in both
English and Cree.
4938
In return, we will supply AVR with programming from northern Alberta that
might be interesting to AVR listeners across the entire chain. This is very innovative programming and
I will be responsible for working with both parties in order to ensure two‑way
relevant communication.
4939
MR. FORBES: Standard has
proposed significant benefits for the development of Canadian talent in the
amount of $100,000 per year or $700,000 over the seven‑year licence
term.
4940
The Classic Hits Talent Search.
We would conduct an annual talent search and send that person to record
at Edmonton's legendary Homestead Recorders with Barry Allen, winner of the
Alberta Recording Industry Association Engineer of the
Year.
4941
The person will win a cash prize of $10,000 and we will hold a special
showcase with influential people in the music business as well. Standard will direct $15,000 per annum
towards the Alberta Recording Industry Association. Standard will create a brand new $10,000
bursary program for students at either Northern Alberta Institute of Technology
or Grant McEwen College in Edmonton.
One specializes in radio and TV, the other in journalism. Our winner will have that
choice.
4942
Standard will also create a fund that will support Canadians who are
members of the four designated groups, $10,000 per year.
4943
FACTOR will receive $5,000 per year and we will request this money be
targeted to benefit artists from northern Alberta
specifically.
4944
Standard will direct $5,000 to Canadian Music week
annually.
4945
And finally, Standard will create a scholarship program for Aboriginal
students to attend one of Canada's leading post secondary courses at NAIT. This scholarship program will include
practicum placement for the student.
4946
As well as our non‑cash benefits for Canadian talent, Standard's
well‑known national free ad plan, which runs commercials promoting new Canadian
CDs as well. This, too, will be
part of our Fort McMurray radio station.
4947
We have presented what we consider to be a well thought out and strong
application for our Classic Hits station, the key highlights of our application
being:
4948
‑ a new and strong voice for Fort McMurray;
4949
‑ a brand new format never heard in the market;
4950
‑ 40 percent Canadian content;
4951
‑ a benefits package of $700,000 over the seven‑year
period;
4952
‑ a new and dynamic approach to news and information using Standard's
newsrooms from across the country;
4953
‑ a partnership with both CTV and AVR for news and magazine
production;
4954
‑ unique Aboriginal programming created to reflect the local
community;
4955
‑ new jobs and careers for broadcasters; and
finally
4956
‑ a realistic and achievable business plan.
4957
Growth in northern Alberta is at a red hot pace, and this community needs
and can support new licences, especially where the applicant can connect the
city with the rest of the province and the rest of the
country.
4958
Standard Radio has the resources to adapt to the high cost of operation
in the market and formats that are proven throughout the entire
country.
4959
This concludes our presentation, and we appreciate the opportunity to
answer any questions you may have.
4960
Thank you very much.
4961
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Forbes.
4962
I am asking Commissioner Williams to start.
4963
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good
afternoon, Mr. Forbes and the Standard
panellists.
4964
Your oral presentation and filed material is very complete. It seems to me, anyway, that the
applicants are becoming very adept at anticipating our questions. This is actually good news, because I
will only have a dozen or so questions because your application is quite
complete.
4965
I am going to begin in the area of programming
diversity.
4966
I note that your market research indicated that the Classic Hits station
would be popular with the 25‑54 demographic, split evenly between male/female
with a particular strength amongst 35‑plus year‑olds.
4967
However, I note that in your application you have not specified a target
audience.
4968
Can you tell me what demographic will make up your core
audience?
4969
MR. FORBES: I certainly
will. I will have Steve Moore and
possibly Janet help.
4970
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank
you.
4971
MR. MOORE: Our core audience
would be the 35‑to‑54‑year‑old and we believe the median age of a listener to
our station will probably be 42‑43.
4972
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You
are even anticipating the Chair's questions. That's good.
4973
MR. MOORE: I have been
sitting here all week.
4974
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You
describe your proposed music format as offering Classic Hits that would serve
Fort McMurray and your demographic, which you identified as being underserved by
local radio.
4975
Vista and Newcap are also seeking to serve the same general demographic
group with music that would seem to fall under your music range
description. As an applicant in the
competitive process, I assume you have reviewed the other
applications.
4976
Could you please explain how you think your format differs from these
others and can you give us any examples to demonstrate this
difference.
4977
MR. FORBES: You keep hearing
the term "unique" at these applications.
I can safely say that this is the most unique market I've ever had the
experience of researching and being involved in. It is a melting pot from the east coast,
and an awful lot of Albertans and western Canadians as
well.
4978
So custom designing a format was essential for this market. There was no kind of a format in a box
that you could drop in.
4979
I am going to pass the rest of the question over to Steve, who would like
to have set it up that way.
4980
MR. MOORE: I think the
biggest difference is that we took a look at the market and the Classic Hits
format and decided that while the format is traditionally gold based, we as a
company really enjoy exposing our listeners to new artists and new
music.
4981
So we have made a significant commitment, I believe, to 20 percent new
music straight off the top, a commitment to 10 to 15 percent music by new and
emerging artists, artists who have basically had no significant airplay in the
last 18 months.
4982
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank
you.
4983
Given the dynamics of the Fort McMurray market whereby two existing
stations are owned by the same licensee, from a competitive standpoint what
additional challenges has this caused for you?
4984
MR. FORBES: I think it
actually makes it easier. OK Radio
Group has been a tremendous operator up there and has basically 100 percent
share of the market with two 50 shares.
To be able to research what was needed up there was absolutely crystal
clear and there were very few obstacles in putting this licence
together.
4985
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The
Aboriginal station from Lac La Biche has a seven share in that marketplace, so I
guess those two 50s would be revised somewhat lower then. Right?
4986
MR. FORBES:
Understandable.
4987
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In
the call for application, the Commission set out numerous factors that are taken
into consideration when evaluating applications for new stations in a given
market.
4988
What would be your position in the event that after evaluating and giving
the appropriate weight to all of the relevant factors set out in the call for
applications, the Commission were to license two stations with similar
formats?
4989
What would be your view on that?
4990
MR. FORBES: Again, we are
very confident in what we presented here.
I think the biggest caution is that you license a competitor who has
strong resources, more so than a duplicate format. This market is so unique, it is going
through such a growth period here that you need to assess these applications
with a little bit more than just a music focus.
4991
What we are trying to do here is establish the need of connecting this
city to the rest of Canada, the rest of the country and the rest of the
world.
4992
So we are confident that our news and information services are as strong
as our research with the music, and we would be very happy to have anybody in a
similar style format to compete with.
4993
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $125
billion in projects, I think you said, forecast over the next nine years, it is,
and then the Mayor calling for an embargo on any future development until things
calm down a bit, or I guess until McMurray obtains suitable infrastructure
funding to meet the needs of rapid growth.
4994
What type of challenge does that pose to you?
4995
I am sure she doesn't mean your type of infrastructure. We would probably welcome your
business. Is that what
you ‑‑
4996
MR. FORBES: We are not in
the oil business, sadly.
4997
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Yes.
4998
MR. FORBES: One of the
challenges as well ‑‑ and Commissioner Cram this morning had some research
that was a few years old.
4999
Every time you go to make a move in a market like this and you pick up
the Globe and Mail or the Financial Post, on the front page of the Business
Section is a story that just trumps all of your research.
5000
Literally on Friday, June 16th, less than a week ago, this came out of
the Alberta Energy Board. I know
Commissioner Cram was talking about things softening by
2011.
"Bitumen production has jumped 59%
each year since 2000 to 388 million barrels last year. There is still an estimated 174 billion
barrels in the ground. It is
important for Albertans and the world to know that we have merely scratched the
surface of Alberta's oil sands reserves and only about 3% of our bitumen
reserves have been produced since 1967."
(As read)
5001
With more than $100 billion worth of projects planned, he expects bitumen
production to increase to more than 1 billion barrels a year by 2015. It is not
stopping.
5002
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes,
I understand it rivals, if not exceeds, the Saudi Arabia capacity for world oil
supplies.
5003
MR. FORBES: The next line
that I didn't read, sir, is:
"We have more potential energy
content than the oil fields of Iran and Libya combined."
5004
It is staggering.
5005
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well,
it sounds like there is an opportunity in that area, to put it
mildly.
5006
MR. FORBES: Or two or
three.
5007
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or
two or three. You are anticipating
another question.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5008
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I am
going to move into the area of local and spoken word programming
now.
5009
In response to deficiencies, you indicated that you would use stringers
from the community for all your news and information programming. You also mentioned a street team which
would attend all major events, reporting back to the radio station throughout
the week.
5010
Could you explain how the stringers would be chosen and who will be part
of the street team. Does this
suggest you may not have traditional journalists or news staff responsible for
gathering of news? And why have you
chosen to present news in this manner?
5011
MR. FORBES: I will let Betty
handle this, please.
5012
MS SELIN: Perhaps there is
some confusion.
5013
The stringers are in addition to our traditional news
team.
5014
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay.
5015
MS SELIN: Our traditional
news team would consist of three fulltime staff. The news director would be the morning
show co‑host. Then the second area
position would be reporter afternoon host of the news. And the third position would be
three‑day‑a‑week reporter and anchor the weekend news.
5016
The community stringers are the people that we are looking for within the
community that are really in touch with what is going on, and they would help
with the Sunday News Magazine.
5017
We would also have another stringer, perhaps two, that we have budgeted
for that would cover the evening meetings, the school board, the councils, those
kinds of meetings that you need to be at.
5018
So there are two different kinds of stringers: one that would cover hard
news and one that would really be ‑‑
5019
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Community contact.
5020
MS SELIN: Community
contacts, absolutely. More of a
community advisor. We wouldn't be
looking for broadcasters so much as people who were in the know in the
community.
5021
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Plugged into the ‑‑
5022
MS SELIN: Exactly, plugged
in.
5023
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How
do you plan on recruiting or selecting these stringers?
5024
MR. FORBES: If I could just
add, Betty, in Edmonton The Bear, for example, has for the last 15 years had a
program called "The Night Growler".
What we do is take the top two students out of NAIT and give them paid
summer jobs. As part of these jobs,
they attend every function that is going on in the
city.
5025
It is absolutely a wonderful opportunity for them. They go through regular air check
sessions, they go through business sections, business training in our
operation. And at last count, just
from memory the other day, we sat down and found that we had hired over 58 of
those students in Standard Radio Edmonton.
And of those literally 50 of them are still in the
business.
5026
So it's a heck of an opportunity for a young broadcaster to get in, get
their feet wet, often living in the same city and then moving on to other areas
of their careers.
5027
So it is a great opportunity and we would do the
same.
5028
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There
would be a similar opportunity presented to Fort McMurray residents? Is that what you are
suggesting?
5029
MR. FORBES: It would be
identical.
5030
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Identical.
5031
MR. FORBES: Yes,
sir.
5032
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay.
5033
MS SELIN: With regard to the
community contacts, I have already spent several hours on the telephone seeking
out the kind of people who are in the know with regard to what is going
on.
5034
For example, Cindy Delore with the Family Crisis Society's Unity House,
this is a direct quote from her:
"We are booming but our social
programs are not keeping up."
5035
The Sunday News Magazine would be a long format program with in‑depth
interviews.
5036
She listed off a whole group of people who she passed along their names
and contacts to me, people who really have a story to tell, who really want to
be heard.
5037
We have also talked to the YMCA.
They have a couple of leadership roles in the community, one being child
care programs. There is a need for
one‑third more spaces than already exist in the community.
5038
They are also involved in immigration services because Fort McMurray is
one of two host communities in Alberta for new immigrants. So that is another role that they
play.
5039
So there is an opportunity for us there to talk to a number of cultures
through the YMCA.
5040
Of course, they do the traditional programs for youth and teens. So we can reach many groups through that
one organization alone, who have many people of course working through them; the
Nistawoyou Friendship Centre and the Down Home Magazine providing that eastern
connection.
5041
So we have done a bit of homework.
We still have more to do, but we already have established some good
contacts within the community.
5042
MR. FORBES: One of the
stringers we actually have is Bobby Curtola, who has now moved to Halifax and
has agreed to give us input into our Down Home program.
5043
MS SELIN: Sorry, he is
Marty's contact, not mine.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5044
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He is
an Edmonton boy, isn't he?
5045
MR. FORBES:
Pardon?
5046
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He is
an Edmontonian that has moved to Newfoundland.
5047
MR. FORBES: A legendary
singer, Order of Canada.
5048
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
There's a bit of cross interprovincial trade going on then with
personnel.
5049
MR. FORBES: That's
correct.
5050
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I am
going to move now into the area of Canadian content.
5051
In your January 9, 2006 deficiency response you accepted as a Condition
of Licence to provide a minimum of 40 percent Canadian content in your overall
Category 2 musical selections.
5052
What are your plans with respect to the broadcasting of Category 2 music
Canadian content during Monday to Friday, 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., time
period?
5053
MR. FORBES: We are happy to
stay at that 40 percent.
5054
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Forty
percent.
5055
Could you please tell us why the Commission should not impose a Condition
of Licence that would see the station broadcast a weekly minimum of Canadian
content of Category 2 music ‑‑ well, if you are happy to stay at 40, I
guess we could impose a condition at 40 percent and you would be happy with
that.
5056
MR. FORBES: Apparently we
just have.
5057
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All
right.
5058
Moving along, Canadian Talent Development.
5059
You state that you will give $15,000 a year to the News and Information
Magazine programming initiative. In
your supplementary brief you explain the Sunday morning News Magazine program
will pay community stringers to provide content each
weekend.
5060
Why do you think this initiative should be considered as eligible CTD as
opposed to a regular programming expense related to the development of
station‑produced content?
5061
MR. FORBES: If I can almost
give the same answer as I did yesterday, we firmly believe that the broadcasting
system has to help the employment situation. If there is going to be an explosion of
new licences across Canada, we do feel that we have to take some of these
practicum students and pay them and teach them and help them get into the
business.
5062
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In
your deficiency response dated January 9, 2006, you indicated Standard would be
prepared to redirect this funding to another initiative should the Commission
find this contribution does not qualify as CTD.
5063
Could you please tell me how these funds would be redirected and to what
type of initiative would you redirect these funds?
5064
MR. FORBES: Once again my
same answer as yesterday. We have
an agreement with NAIT; that if that did not qualify, we would be happy to
redirect that to NAIT.
5065
They are having problems especially in obtaining new equipment to keep up
to the state of the art changes that are happening in the
industry.
5066
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All
right.
5067
What would be your position if the Commission were to impose this annual
CTD redirection expenditure as a Condition of Licence?
5068
MR. FORBES: Again, not a
problem at all, sir.
5069
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank
you.
5070
Let's talk about Fort McMurray's high cost of
living.
5071
Can you explain to us how your business plan takes into account the
relatively high cost of living in Fort McMurray and the zero apartment vacancy
rate.
5072
For example, are you expecting to have to pay higher salaries for certain
staff in order to attract them to the station and retain them, or subsistence
allowances, or compensation of a similar nature?
5073
MR. FORBES: I will let Diane
Morris handle that question.
5074
MS MORRIS: Well, if you had
asked me a year ago, I would have said the plan that we submitted was reasonable
and stand behind our expenses. But
since the explosion that has happened since we submitted, I have relooked at all
of the expenses and all the salaries and have had to increase them, not
substantially but to be adequate to meet the market.
5075
So I have developed some new costings and I do have copies available if
you want to look at them.
5076
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe
you could just give me a total percentage increase and then you can file the
detailed information with staff.
5077
MS MORRIS: If you look at an
hourly rate, I have probably gone from a low of $13.00 an hour, which we were
proposing, to a low of $19.00; and as high as $27.00 now.
5078
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So
that's about 50‑plus percent increase?
5079
MS MORRIS:
Yes.
5080
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Wow.
5081
MS MORRIS: I went to the
Wood Buffalo site ‑‑ they have an excellent website ‑‑ and they
actually had a salary survey that had the exact OCCs and NOCs for the radio
announcers and I actually got the salaries off of their
website.
5082
So I am fairly confident that we would be able to hire with
that.
5083
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So
with those large percentage increases in salaries, and I guess other expenses,
accommodation and whatnot, are there similar increases in your revenue
projections?
5084
MR. FORBES: We were hoping
that Mr. Morton would have left his rate card out for Fort McMurray here
like he did with Grande Prairie.
5085
But absolutely the pressure goes on the sales department to reflect those
gains.
5086
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank
you.
5087
I think you said two or three, but I'm going to ask you
anyway.
5088
How many new radio stations do you believe Fort McMurray could support at
this time?
5089
MR. FORBES: I think two is
the magic number in this one as well, and again trying to have the formats as
widely apart as possible.
5090
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Formats as widely apart as possible, and earlier you said they should be
well capitalized.
5091
Is that a fair comment?
5092
MR. FORBES: I just hope we
don't tread on each other, that's all.
If each is a strong competitor and in for the long haul with a format
that is not going to be changed or modified in the next two or three years, that
is the biggest problem with launching new radio stations, when you think you
have one format coming on and all of a sudden it is dramatically
different.
5093
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Should we begin regulating format?
5094
MR. FORBES:
No.
5095
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay;
thank you.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5096
MR. FORBES: We can help out
there.
5097
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You
will fine. All
right.
5098
MR. FORBES: With the deepest
of respect.
5099
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I
anticipated that answer.
5100
In the event the Commission decides not to license you for the frequency
for which you have applied, have you considered the use of another
frequency?
5101
If yes, which one; and if no, why not?
5102
MR. FORBES: Yes, we have
researched and Kerry Pelser, who is in the audience from Allan and Associates,
tells me that there are least five other viable
alternatives.
5103
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In
these five other viable alternatives, there are no restrictions on your capacity
of meeting your signal coverage objectives?
5104
MR. FORBES: I don't think
there is a problem at all. It is
all on the CBC site.
5105
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No
negative impact on your business plan?
5106
MR. FORBES: No, not at
all.
5107
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well,
that was quick. I am done, Mr.
Chair.
5108
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Commissioner Williams.
5109
Commissioner Cugini?
5110
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: No, I
have nothing.
5111
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Commissioner Langford?
5112
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
5113
I have just a couple of quick questions.
5114
You talked about the market being able to hold two, support two, and you
put some qualifications on them.
5115
Do you count in that the two specialty applications, the Kids one and the
Touch one?
5116
MR. FORBES: No, I wouldn't
have a problem if there was a third.
5117
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: As
long as it is one of those.
5118
MR. FORBES: That is
correct.
5119
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: That
doesn't impact on you.
5120
MR. FORBES: No,
sir.
5121
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right.
5122
Another thing I wasn't clear on.
It may have gone too fast and my brain is moving too slow. Einstein did some work on that but I'm
no Einstein.
5123
You talked about your commitments to different sort of percentages of
your music content, kind of supporting, if I can put it, or reflecting different
realities; 10 percent would be new, 25 percent from Newfoundland, 40 percent of
Cancon.
5124
Could you give me the list again.
There were too many pieces, and I just want to make sure I have it clear
in my mind.
5125
MR. FORBES: Not a
problem. I will have Steve provide
that.
5126
MR. MOORE: What we are
proposing is 20 percent new music straight off the top, current
artists. We are proposing 10 to 15
percent new and emerging artists, so artists that are just beginning their
careers, that haven't had significant airplay in the last 18
months.
5127
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Could
I just hold it there.
5128
Is the 10 to 15 part of the 20?
This is where I start to lose it; sorry.
5129
MR. MOORE: It depends on the
week, it depends on the month. It
depends who is releasing.
5130
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: It's
like marriage.
5131
MR. MOORE: It depends who is
releasing product. If Eric Clapton
is coming out with a new song then he fits as new but not as new and
emerging. If James Blunt, who has
been around for about a year now, releases new music, then that would fall into
both of those categories.
5132
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Maybe
I will just get the numbers, then I will come back with the totality of my
"mudification" afterwards.
5133
So 20 percent new; 10 to 15 percent...
5134
MR. MOORE: New and
emerging.
5135
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: New
and emerging; okay.
5136
MR. MOORE: Twenty‑five
percent of our Canadian content would be from East Coast
artists.
5137
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: This
is going to go over big in Toronto.
5138
Okay, 25 percent of Cancon.
5139
MR. MOORE: And 40 percent of
our music of course would be Cancon.
5140
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: East
coast.
5141
So is that 20 a real 25 percent, or is it 25 percent of 40 percent, the
East Coat?
5142
MR. MOORE: Well, in our Back
to the Rock program, it would be 100 percent.
5143
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Yes,
but you are not answering my question, are you.
5144
MR. MOORE: In the broadcast
week, it would be a guaranteed 25 percent of the 40
percent.
5145
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. So let's say we have
100 songs, just to make it easy.
Okay?
5146
MR. MOORE:
Okay.
5147
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Of
100 songs, 40 songs are going to be Canadian. Right?
5148
MR. MOORE:
Yes.
5149
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: How
many are going to be from the East Coast?
5150
MR. FORBES: I'll help Steve
out here. It is supply and demand,
it sounds like an easy answer but that really what is what it
is.
5151
With radio stations, Easy Rock, for example, takes off all of its regular
music for an entire six weeks over the Christmas period. So we are playing Canadian music but
it's not off of a current Canadian chart.
5152
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I am
not trying to say that we are going to come romping down on you and say where
are your logs for the last 25 minutes and where is your East Coast
song.
5153
But I am trying to get a sense.
If all you played for a whole year were 100 songs, just to make it easy,
40 of those songs would be Canadian.
Am I right?
5154
MR. MOORE: Yes,
sir.
5155
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: How
many of those songs would be East Coast?
5156
MR. MOORE:
Ten.
5157
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Ten,
okay.
5158
And how many would be new?
5159
MR. MOORE: Again, that goes
back to what Marty was talking about, supply and demand. It depends who is releasing
product.
5160
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: But
20 songs would be new for sure, just you are not sure whether they would be
Canadian new or whether they would be somebody else new.
5161
Is that what you are saying?
5162
MR. MOORE:
Exactly.
5163
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So we
have 40 Canadian songs, ten of which are from the East
Coast.
5164
Then you have 20 new, but some of that may already be counted in the
Canadian and some of it may already be counted in the East
Coast?
5165
MR. MOORE:
Yes.
5166
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. So now the 10 to 15
new and emerging, how would I distinguish those?
5167
MR. MOORE: The 10 to 15
percent new and emerging artists would be primarily artists that we would be
watching for, that start out at the bottom of the charts, names that haven't had
huge hit records.
5168
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
some of them might be in Canadian, some of them might be in East Coast Canadian,
but all of them would be in new.
5169
MR. MOORE:
Yes.
5170
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
of them would be under the 20 percent new.
5171
MR. MOORE:
Yes.
5172
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: There
has to be an easier way to do this.
5173
MR. FORBES: It is called
selector. The computers do take
care of it but you do have to make sure.
A Great Big Sea song could last 12 weeks on the chart, it could last 26
weeks. It could get played one time
per day, it could played three times.
5174
If it crosses over into international ‑‑ I mean most of Celine
Dion's. She will release a
record. It's Cancon and it becomes
an international hit.
5175
So it is not an exacting science and an easy answer to throw
back.
5176
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
No. But still you guys throw
these numbers out, so God bless us up here trying to figure out what they
mean.
5177
MR. FORBES: We were hoping
you wouldn't jump at it.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5178
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
don't see anything wrong with it.
But I have to tell you, if the Chairman will permit me to editorialize,
sometimes these numbers aren't as helpful as they could
be.
5179
I don't know if there is a narrative way to do it. And I'm not being critical. I think this has been kind of built into
the system of what happens in front of us.
5180
Once you actually sit back and you are listening to one of your
colleagues do the question and you think:
What does it mean really?
5181
What it means, I guess, is that if we were to send in some hob‑nailed
booted auditor five years into your licence, you would be able to defend all
these numbers. That is about all it
means really, isn't it ‑‑ except for the 40 percent Cancon. That is cut in
stone.
5182
But the rest of it is difficult, isn't it?
5183
MR. FORBES:
Absolutely.
5184
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: It
would be all over the lot.
Right?
5185
MR. FORBES: Absolutely. I started in 1970 when we had a box of
records. You started at the back,
played it, put it in the back.
That's how we rotated records and we just had to make sure at that point
that two out of those ten ‑‑ but it has become such a sophisticated
science, especially in a competitive market.
5186
In Edmonton, for example, there are 23 radio stations. I can't imagine sitting down listening
to 23 program directors try to describe how they rotate their records. It is very
difficult.
5187
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Well,
consultants take note. If somebody
figures out a way to do this in English, or whatever official language you
prefer, you could have an edge.
This stuff is confusing.
5188
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Those
are my questions.
5189
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
5190
Commissioner Cram.
5191
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you.
5192
I am back to live‑to‑air programming. What part of your schedule is going to
be live‑to‑air?
5193
MR. FORBES: I am going to
offer up Steve Moore once again.
5194
MR. MOORE: Our intention is
to do our morning shows live from 6:00 to 9:00 a.m., our afternoon drive show
live from 2:00 to 7:00 p.m. We will
voice track our mid‑day show with a live body in the station doing other
duties. And then our in the evening
our intention is to run a syndicated program.
5195
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So
live‑to‑air is going to be three plus five: eight hours a
day.
5196
MR. MOORE:
Yes.
5197
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And on
the weekends, what is happening there?
5198
MR. MOORE: The weekends, we
would have a voice‑tracked morning show on Saturday morning with a live news
person in the building. We would
have a live announcer from noon until 6:00 in the afternoon, and from 6:00 until
midnight we would have a syndicated program.
5199
On Sundays from 8:00 until 9:30 in the morning we would have our Fort
Magazine, which would be live with some recorded segments. From 9:30 to 11:00 we would have our
Back to the Rock program, which again would be live with some recorded
segments. From 11:00 a.m. to 6:00
p.m. we would have a live announcer.
From 6:00 to 9:00 p.m. we would have a Canadian syndicated program, and
from 9:00 to 10:30 at night we would rebroadcast our Back to the Rock
program.
5200
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And then
all else ‑‑ and I am just going to go back to Monday to
Friday.
5201
There is the eight hours a day that is live‑to‑air. And the syndicated programming is how
long?
5202
MR. MOORE: The week night
syndicated program would be four hours.
5203
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And then
everything else would be voice tracking.
5204
MR. MOORE:
Yes.
5205
COMMISSIONER CRAM: I guess I
got taken ‑‑ I had to think about it last night. This syndicated program, is this this
Canadianized American talk show host?
5206
MR. FORBES: We propose John
Tesh, which is another product that Sound Source has that comes out of the
United States as well, and is Canadianized. We actually customize the music list
with the company so that it adheres to all requirements.
5207
COMMISSIONER CRAM: I was
wondering how you Canadianized it.
I was wondering if you asked the host to say "eh".
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5208
COMMISSIONER CRAM: I
couldn't figure that out.
5209
MR. FORBES: I will request
that.
5210
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And
spoken word. I need news, either
news/weather/sports, totals or just news totals. It doesn't matter.
5211
MS SELIN: The news component
per week is five hours and 38 minutes. So weekday cast is three hours and 20
minutes, weekend casts of 48 minutes, and the Sunday News Magazine is 90
minutes.
5212
COMMISSIONER CRAM: The 90
minutes isn't in the five hours and 38 minutes.
5213
MS SELIN: Yes, it would
be. That includes ‑‑ because
news alone would be four hours and eight minutes.
5214
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
5215
MS SELIN: So then an extra
hour and 30 minutes for the Sunday News Magazine.
5216
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. Other scripted spoken
word.
5217
MS SELIN: That would be
programming has other scripted word.
5218
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Well, it
involves I guess ‑‑
5219
MS SELIN: We would work
together on some shows like the Back to the Rock show. We would help make contributions to
that. But there are a number of
other spoken word programmings that Steve has planned.
5220
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
5221
MR. MOORE: We are proposing
a program called Entertainment Express.
It mirrors what we do here in Edmonton. It is a minute and a half each weekday
for a total of 15 minutes per week, which basically lists off entertainment
options in the community, everything from new movies that are opening to Little
Theatre and charity events.
5222
We have a featured program that is basically a short form interview,
called Inside Fort McMurray, which is interviews done with locals discussing
local events. Again that is another
15 minutes a week with different segments each week day.
5223
We are hoping to do A Minute With the Mayor on Thursday mornings, where
the Mayor calls in or comes in to the morning show and talks about some of the
issues that the community is facing.
5224
We do a Classic Cafe show during the noon hour which features music from
the 70's and 80's specifically.
That has a little more spoken word content in it, a little artist
background.
5225
Highway reports ‑‑
5226
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So number
of minutes on the noon hour?
5227
MR. MOORE: That would be ten
minutes per week.
5228
COMMISSIONER CRAM: All
right.
5229
MR. MOORE: We are committing
to 15 minutes a week for highway reports with travel conditions on routes in and
out of the city, and probably somewhat longer reports in the winter
time.
5230
We do a morning show feature called A Song You Thought We Forgot, where
we dig back into the archives and dig out a song that hasn't been played on the
radio for a long time. We commit
ten minutes a week to that.
5231
We talk about what was going on in the news when that song was a hit when
other songs were on the charts and then play the song.
5232
Then of course our Back to the Rock is our big local production, spoken
word. Ten minutes of talk is what I
have calculated for the hour and a half show.
5233
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. So 96 minutes, subject
to check.
5234
Does that sound right?
5235
MR. MOORE: I haven't broken
this part of it down. I have 14
hours and six minutes of spoken word per week. If you take away the news of about five
and a half hours, the figure is pretty close.
5236
COMMISSIONER CRAM: I'm
sorry, I hate to get messed up on numbers.
5237
There was five hours and 38 minutes of news. The other scripted that you just
finished telling me was 96 minutes, at least based on my
math.
5238
MR. FORBES: Subject to
check.
5239
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So that
adds up to about seven hours total.
5240
MR. FORBES: Commissioner
Cram, we do have a grid that we would be happy to give to you that would make it
a lot easier.
5241
COMMISSIONER CRAM: That
would be perfect.
5242
MR. FORBES: I'm sorry. We should have done that. I apologize.
5243
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Yes.
5244
MR. FORBES: We will do
that.
5245
COMMISSIONER CRAM: If you
saw what O.K. filed just in Phase IV ‑‑
5246
MR. FORBES: You
bet.
5247
COMMISSIONER CRAM: ‑‑ that is the kind of thing I would be looking
for.
5248
MR. FORBES: We will have
that prepared. My
apologies.
5249
COMMISSIONER CRAM: No, no
problem.
5250
That is your homework. I can
give homework too.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5251
COMMISSIONER CRAM: New music
and emerging music. How do you
define "new"?
5252
MR. MOORE: New music is
anything that has been out within the last 18 months; from today going 18 months
back.
5253
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay.
5254
I heard your definition of emerging, but it is not too helpful because it
is really a subjective thing in terms of they haven't been really successful
before or they are at the bottom of the charts.
5255
Is there anything that is harder about it that you can firm up in terms
of a definition?
5256
MR. MOORE: The easiest way
to explain it would be artists that have had no significant airplay in the last
18 months. We are coming out of a
dry spell in music right now and there are some young, new and exciting artists
who are, I think, really going to be big.
5257
So these are the new and emerging artists I am talking
about.
5258
COMMISSIONER CRAM: All
right, thank you.
5259
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
5260
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
5261
Mr. Forbes, when you appeared yesterday you had planned some Francophone
programming for Grande Prairie.
5262
Do you have an idea of the size of the Francophone population in Fort
McMurray?
5263
MR. FORBES: It is nowhere
near the scenario that we have in Grande Prairie. It is very small compared to Grande
Prairie.
5264
THE CHAIRPERSON: But your
answer is limited to franco‑Albertan, I would suspect. I have never been in neither Grande
Prairie nor Fort McMurray. I am
only reading the papers like everybody else, and I am reading that there are
numbers of Quebeckers who have migrated to one or the other location, obviously
for work. They could be
English‑speaking Quebeckers but I suspect that there is a certain number of them
that are French‑speaking.
5265
But if you don't have the answer, you don't have the
answer.
5266
MR. FORBES: There are
probably a great number of transient workers in that
area.
5267
THE CHAIRPERSON: I will say
they are transient.
5268
MR. FORBES:
Right.
5269
THE CHAIRPERSON: In both
instances they are transient.
5270
MR. FORBES: Right. Whereas in the Grande Prairie area there
are a number of full French communities.
5271
THE CHAIRPERSON: Coming back
to the question that Commissioner Williams asked you regarding the opportunity
for the Commission to grant two licences, and more, but say two commercial
licences for the sake of the discussion ‑‑ but they could be the same
format ‑‑ I notice that we have here six commercial radio operators that
are appearing before us and three have chosen a format and three others have
chosen another one.
5272
The question that we are trying to explore here ‑‑ and you are the
lucky first ‑‑ is: What will
happen if the Commission was to say grant a licence to two different groups but
their chosen format was the same?
5273
Take your case of Classic Hits and we grant a licence to another group
which also has requested Classic Hits, what will Standard
do?
5274
MR. FORBES: I guess we would
have a heck of a lot more news and information talk.
5275
No, that would be a bit of a precedent setting for a market that small, I
would suggest. I don't know really
what the answer would be to that.
5276
Again, we are very confident in the full service package that we are
bringing to the Commission here and not necessarily the music
component.
5277
THE CHAIRPERSON: I know that
legal counsel has a question for you.
5278
MS MURPHY: Thank you, Mr.
Chair.
5279
You have indicated that you have revised financial projections that you
would like to file; just to confirm that you will be filing these immediately
after your appearance.
5280
I would like to propose, members of the Panel, that we invite all other
applicants to file their revised financial projections, if any, as soon as
possible.
5281
THE CHAIRPERSON: You have
also taken the undertaking of filing the programming grid, if you could do that
at the same time so we could put it in the public record as well and circulate
it to the members.
5282
MS MURPHY: So all applicants
please file as soon as possible your revised financial projections, if any. Thank you very
much.
5283
Those are my questions.
5284
THE CHAIRPERSON: I see, Mr.
Forbes, that you are ready.
5285
MR. FORBES: Do I look that
keen?
5286
Thank you kindly. My
summation will be very brief.
5287
I think our application is very strong and speaks for itself. The Commission will hear throughout the
next several applications a similar scenario as to what we have unfolded about
this most unique city and the growing pains that it is growing
through.
5288
I highly suggest to the CRTC that you license a broadcaster with strong
resources and expertise and that that broadcaster has the wherewithal to grow
along with the city.
5289
Standard Radio is such a broadcaster, and we have the resources,
expertise and creativity to work in the current and future environment. In fact, like our research pointed out,
by connecting this city to the rest of the country and to the rest of the world
through information, public service and magazine programming, we sincerely think
we can be part of the solution to the massive growing problems that they are
going through in northern Alberta.
5290
We hope you will give Standard Radio a chance to shine in Fort
McMurray.
5291
Thank you.
5292
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much, Mr. Forbes, and thank you to your team.
5293
We will take a ten‑minute break and then go to the next
applicant.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1534 /
Suspension à 1534
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1551 / Reprise
à 1551
5294
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order,
please.
5295
Madam Secretary.
5296
THE SECRETARY: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
5297
We are now at Item 13 on the agenda, which is an application by Vista
Radio Ltd. for a licence to operate an English‑language FM commercial radio
programming undertaking in Fort McMurray.
5298
The new station would operate on frequency 94.3 MHz (channel 232B) with
an average effective radiated power of 10,700 watts (maximum effective radiated
power of 15,300 watts/antenna height of 61
metres).
5299
Appearing for the applicant is Ms Margot Micallef, who will
introduce her colleagues.
5300
You will then have 20 minutes for your
presentation.
PRESENTATION /
PRÉSENTATION
5301
MS MICALLEF: Thank
you.
5302
Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, CRTC staff, good
afternoon.
5303
Before we start our presentation, I will introduce our
panel.
5304
To my immediate left is Bryan Edwards, President of Vista Radio. To Bryan's left is Glenn Hicks, Director
of news and spoken word for Vista Radio.
Next to Glenn is Jason Mann, Vice‑President, Programming, and next to
Jason is John Yerxa of Yerxa Research.
5305
To my right is Paul Mann, Executive Vice‑President,
Operations.
5306
With that, Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission, we are now ready
to start our presentation.
5307
It is, once again, a privilege to appear before you with an application
for a new FM station to serve Fort McMurray, another booming economy in
Alberta.
5308
Vista is a young company but we have the benefit of 100 years of wisdom
that comes from the combined experience of our founders and senior management
team, and we have a big heart that balances our desire to do well with our
desire to do good.
5309
We have submitted to you a strong application which will show how Vista
will succeed at the business of radio in Fort McMurray and at the same time how
Vista will serve the community.
5310
In putting together this application, we have endeavoured to meet the
following criteria and, in so doing, meet the above goals and at the same time
benefit the Canadian broadcast system.
5311
We intend to accomplish these goals, if you grant us a licence to serve
Ft. McMurray:
5312
‑ by introducing a distinct music format aimed at that portion of the
population in Fort McMurray which is not being currently
served;
5313
‑ by introducing a new editorial voice to the community of Fort McMurray
through Vista's extensive news and spoken Word
programming;
5314
‑ by making a meaningful contribution to Canadian Talent Development;
and
5315
‑ by building a strong business plan which stays true to our promise to
be local and stay local.
5316
MR. EDWARDS: At this time
Vista has 19 stations all situated in small markets across British
Columbia.
5317
This application in Fort McMurray represents our continuing effort to
expand our operation into Alberta, where most of our shareholders reside. You will be interested to know that
North West Capital, one of our shareholders, is currently driving the
development of an upgrader to serve the oil sands industry in Fort McMurray,
which when completed in 2010 will contribute billions of dollars to the economy
in Fort McMurray and the surrounding area.
5318
You have heard us say how important "local" is to us ‑‑ and it
is.
5319
You have also heard us say how much we have contributed to the local
communities in which we operate.
5320
We cannot say it enough: the
local community is very important to Vista and small markets are our
business.
5321
We realize we have stressed these points extensively in our previous
applications and for the sake of brevity we will not repeat all of our
accomplishments in that area.
5322
MR. PAUL MANN: Why Fort
McMurray?
5323
Some would say because it represents the "New Gold Rush". Much has been said, even more has been
written, and plenty of thought has been applied to the challenges and the
opportunities surrounding this most unrestrained economic region of
Canada.
5324
In any event, there is a significant broadcasting opportunity in Fort
McMurray and an opportunity to serve this rapidly growing
community.
5325
What do we mean by rapidly growing?
5326
We mean a 9 percent increase in population in the past year alone, an
increase of nearly 70 percent in the past half dozen years. Retail projections by the Financial
Post, which put the estimated 2006 Fort McMurray number at $771 million, up $171
million since the last year's FP update.
5327
Further, we have history in a similar market and that history allows us
to understand the unique challenges of a Fort McMurray: what we would be facing
and thus how to operate in and serve this community.
5328
We have a realistic and conservative business
plan.
5329
If you compare the business plan submitted with this application to the
one we submitted for our Grande Prairie application, this prudent approach is
clear. With scarcely $100,000 more
revenue projected in this community than in Grande Prairie, we show operating
costs in Fort McMurray at over 60 percent higher than we do in our Grande
Prairie projected operating costs.
5330
Nonetheless, the growth of recent years and the projected growth of the
seven years ahead all point to a need to increase radio service in the
community. It is clear that the
retail spending and population will be there to support
it.
5331
MR. EDWARDS: If successful,
Vista would operate a stand‑alone commercial FM radio station up against the OK
Radio Group, a well‑established local broadcaster which presently owns and
operates an FM combo.
5332
OK Radio currently operates CJOK which, according to our research,
targets a broad group of radio listeners, in particular women, who appreciate
Country music.
5333
It also operates CKYX which appears to focus primarily on current Rock,
and the listeners are within the 18‑34 age demographic.
5334
The existing Stations ‑‑ Country and Rock ‑‑ cannot be all
things to all people.
5335
MR. PAUL MANN: Our proposal
is for a Classic Hits FM specifically designed to appeal to adults between 35
and 54 years of age, many of whom simply have no "pure" radio choice when it
comes to listening to the music they grew up with.
5336
And the way we arrived at this choice was by commissioning Banister
Research to find out what Fort McMurray residents feel is missing from their
radio menu.
5337
MR. YERXA: In mid‑August of
last year Banister Research conducted 400 telephone interviews with adult radio
listeners in Fort McMurray, utilizing a questionnaire template which I designed
to conduct format‑finder studies such as this one.
5338
In the case of Fort McMurray, once adult respondents were randomly
selected, Banister first studied their listening behaviour. It then probed listeners' interests in
six mainstream music formats and asked whether they could identify an existing
local FM station delivering each one.
The two most important calculations Banister performed with their data
were to identify the percentage of listeners that expressed significant interest
in each format, as well as the percentage that could not associate a local FM
radio station with each format.
5339
By comparing these two results, one is able to identity the largest
musical hole or opportunity in a market simply by examining the trade‑off
between popularity and availability or, as I often like to say, between "more"
and "less".
5340
In other words, the more popular but less available a music type is, the
greater opportunity there is for that format in a given
market.
5341
Using this approach, Banister was easily able to determine that Classic
Hits represents the best format opportunity in Fort McMurray as it registered
very high popularity but was also perceived by all adult respondents to be the
most difficult music type to find on their local FM dial.
5342
MR. PAUL MANN: Vista was
advised by Banister to go with Classic Hits. According to the research, it
is:
5343
‑ a format primarily targeted at those 35 to 54 years of age;
and
5344
‑ a mainstream format that will have the least impact on any of the
existing commercial stations.
5345
It is also worth noting that a Classic Hits station would share a
relatively equal percentage of its audience with CKYX and CJOK and would
therefore not tend to impact either of these formats
directly.
5346
Indeed, it should be stated that a Classic Hits FM would likely have the
smallest direct impact on either one of the OK Radio Group properties, when
compared to all of the other format options that were tested, which would once
again suggest that it is the most distinct mainstream format option at this
time.
5347
In terms of revenue, while we have indicated that up to 65 percent of our
first year revenue would come from existing radio advertisers, the point here is
that we expect these existing advertisers to substantially increase their radio
expenditures once a distinct new radio option becomes
available.
5348
MR. JASON MANN: In Classic
Hits we have found a format that will appeal to 35 to 54 year‑old listeners by
reintroducing many songs and artists with which they grew up, that are not being
aired locally in any significant numbers.
5349
Probably best known as one of the "Bob" or "Jack" stations in larger
Canadian markets, we are proposing a shade of Classic Hits very much along these
lines for Classic Hits 94.3.
5350
However, given the significant male demographics in Fort McMurray,
Classic Hits 94.3 will present a slightly more "Rock" than "Pop" based Classic
Hits format.
5351
By carefully balancing gold artists like ZZ Top, Trooper, Fleetwood Mac,
Supertramp, Billy Joel, The Cars, John Mellencamp, Journey, Chilliwack, Madonna,
The Police, Doug & the Slugs and Queen, our Classic Hits format will
certainly appeal to the average 35 to 54 year‑old
listener.
5352
Given our Cancon commitment, we will not only revisit past Canadian acts,
but we will also present newer Canadian artists who are compatible with the
overall sound of the station:
artists like Daniel Powter, Matthew Barber, Bedouin Soundclash, The Suits
XL, Melissa O'Neil, Alanis Morissette, The Philosopher Kings and Tomi
Swick.
5353
Our view is that the insertion of the more up‑to‑date Canadian acts will
add a variety and freshness to our format without violating the overall premise
of Classic Hits 94.3.
5354
After all, the key to this station is that it will be providing a much
greater amount of 1970s and 198Os music than the existing stations currently do
and in so doing will be focused specifically on the adult 37 to 47 demographic
and, more broadly, the 35 to 54 year‑old listeners.
5355
MR. HICKS: But Classic Hits
94.3 will also bring a very clear message about news and information to Fort
McMurray: that "local is
king".
5356
As already mentioned here this week, the Vista Group's very clear
attitude and company‑wide philosophy towards news is to make sure we do what the
CBC can't and doesn't do, and frankly what a number of commercial stations have
lost sight of in recent years: keep
it local and keep supplying plenty of it.
5357
The overwhelming assumption has to be that we are going to attract
listeners to Classic Hits 94.3 because they know, day in and day out, that they
are going to get news about what is happening down the street or around the
corner.
5358
At Vista we actively lead, encourage and manage all our News Directors to
think one way: if it is happening
locally and has significance for even the smallest sectors in the community, we
will cover all the relevant news, issues and
angles.
5359
And we don't simply respond to events. Yes, if it is a real breaking story, we
will react. But in small markets
genuine breaking news events can be few and far between. That doesn't mean you feed the listener
a diet of police press releases, yet another comment from the local MLA, or
incessantly tap into wires because "that's all there is" or because the wire
story is "better" or "more juicy".
5360
Doing local news means having to listen to everything that is out there
and reflecting it.
5361
Essentially unless they are earth‑shattering or have real local
resonance, out‑of‑market wire stories will always play second‑fiddle to the
local story.
5362
It is a mindset with a small market news room. You either treat local like it is the
biggest thing since sliced bread, or you risk alienating the very reason for
your existence in a small marketplace.
5363
We get it! Vista understands
this attitude better than anyone.
5364
Classic Hits 94.3 will deliver newscasts comprising a minimum target
local content quota of 80 percent.
That's four local stories for every five aired.
5365
That is what we do in our other small markets, and sometimes it is even
more. Often we don't run a single
national or international story in our
newscasts.
5366
If granted a licence to operate in Fort McMurray, Vista will provide 92
regularly scheduled newscasts for in excess of six hours of news coverage a
week.
5367
In addition to those 92 newscasts, we will broadcast another four hours
of structured spoken word a week, encompassing regular weather and road
conditions, hourly community service announcements, entertainment, community
events, as well as specialty information that is specifically designed for the
region ‑‑ such as the energy sector reports.
5368
Our research indicates that half of all adults aren't getting enough
local news. They want more. They want to know what is happening in
their town. In particular, in a
community where there is as much change occurring on a regular basis as there is
in Fort McMurray, radio plays an important role in maintaining stability and
keeping the population connected to their community.
5369
Fort McMurray may be exploding, but with growth comes a need for the
public to be better informed, better engaged, better respected about their
issues and the news that matters to them.
They will hear how it should be on Classic Hits
94.3.
5370
MR. EDWARDS: Vista is
prepared to make a direct cash commitment of $525,000 over a seven‑year period,
or $75,000a year, in support of Canadian Talent
Development.
5371
Our contribution is as follows annually:
5372
‑ Factor for $43,500;
5373
‑ Star Maker Fund for $5000;
5374
‑ Native Women in the Arts for $7,500;
5375
‑ ARIA for $7,000; and
5376
‑ Fort McMurray Public Schools, $12,000.
5377
For a total of $525,000 over seven years. And today I got it
right.
5378
MR. P. MANN: As noted in our
oral presentation of yesterday on the Grande Prairie application, we wish to
re‑state that Vista Radio is committed to a barrier free, respectful workplace
and corporate culture that offers equal opportunity and reflects the diversity
of the communities we serve.
5379
Yesterday we filed with the Secretary copies of our Employment Equity
Policy as set out in the relevant section of our HR
Manual.
5380
MS MICALLEF: Why Vista in
Fort McMurray?
5381
We've said it and we've shown it in the communities we serve. Vista is an independent broadcaster
focused solely on small and medium markets. We understand markets that are reliant
on a single industry or a single employer.
We understand markets that expand and contract. We understand populations that move in
and out of markets depending on the economy. We understand and have experience
working in and serving communities like Fort McMurray.
5382
And most importantly we have the financial wherewithal and the financial
muscle to:
5383
‑ deal with surprises and setbacks in getting and keeping the station on
air;
5384
‑ to weather any economic storms as may befall a boom and bust
economy;
5385
‑ to grow our business in a steady fashion; and
5386
‑ to commit to the community of Fort McMurray for the long
term.
5387
We have done our research.
We know that the citizens of Fort McMurray need and want a new station
offering Classic Hits ‑‑ a new and distinct format in this
community.
5388
We also have shown that we can successfully operate such a
station.
5389
We know that the citizens of Fort McMurray want more and better news and
information, and we are prepared to provide it to them in the Vista way: with skill and
enthusiasm.
5390
We are offering a package of meaningful and tangible CTD benefits that
are aimed specifically at this community.
5391
Fort McMurray requires an experienced, financially strong
operator:
5392
‑ who can balance the uniqueness of this market;
5393
‑ the uniqueness of the population base; and
5394
‑ the challenges and opportunities which it offers.
5395
That operator is Vista. We
hope you will agree.
5396
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much.
5397
I will initiate the questions.
Then my colleagues may come up with further
questions.
5398
I am going to start with the financial aspects and the economics of your
proposal.
5399
I am taking for granted that the projections that you have filed with
your application are still the ones on which we should base our discussion and
our decision?
5400
MR. P. MANN: Yes, Mr.
Chairman, we are very comfortable with those projections. In fact, while we developed the initial
business plan nearly a year ago and began the research at that time, we have
updated elements of our engagement in that market since then. And as early as this past week, that
includes at the levels where we are comfortable, for example, about what the
national revenues are in that market this year very closely at least, we
think.
5401
We are comfortable that the $6 million minimum at which we think the
model is based on for the market is perhaps yet conservative as of
today.
5402
And in areas such as rents in terms of office accommodation and how we
have based our salaries and related operating costs, we are comfortable today,
yes.
5403
THE CHAIRPERSON: I know in
your oral presentation you had mentioned that you had put a 60 percent
mark‑up over the application that you filed for Grande
Prairie.
5404
You feel comfortable that the numbers on which the Commission is basing
its review of the application are close to what the market will require to
launch your proposed station?
5405
MR. P. MANN: Yes. Our salary costs and related operating
costs in fact particularly salary costs, while we took them up from existing
Vista operations for Grande Prairie, they are up another 60 percent over
Grande Prairie, in fact. So we very
carefully measured the increments.
5406
We also used real knowledge, if you will, in terms of where salaries of
late have been tracking.
5407
So we are quite comfortable at the moment. That's not to say that is
where they will be sitting a year from now. But based on today, we
are.
5408
THE CHAIRPERSON: Based on
today, you are.
5409
I am sure you have visited Fort McMurray before filing your application
and probably before coming here?
5410
MR. P. MANN: Are you asking
whether we have been there this last several months? No.
5411
THE CHAIRPERSON: No, you
haven't been there.
5412
At the time you prepared your application did you investigate for lodging
on one hand for employees but also for a business place to put the radio
station?
5413
MR. P. MANN: Yes. And we updated that in the past week as
far as checking on commercial space accommodation and specifically re‑checked
again with Remax in Fort McMurray on the current rate range, specifically in the
square footage that we budgeted. It
is in the $22 to $26 range, $24 being the mid‑range for that square footage of
commercial space right now.
5414
Similarly at the personal accommodation level, we updated what a
one‑bedroom accommodation and above is going at. The one‑bedroom accommodation, unshared,
is $1200 to $1400 a month at the
moment.
5415
THE CHAIRPERSON: I am going
to keep staying in Gatineau.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5416
THE CHAIRPERSON: When you
did your business plan, what type of commercial rate did you figure out in your
business plan?
5417
MR. P. MANN: In terms of the
commercial square footage rate?
5418
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Yes.
5419
MR. P. MANN: $22 to $26 was
the range as of this last week.
When we based it at the time, we based it on $24. So we were right in the mid‑range,
between $22 and $26.
5420
There is space this week available in that range ‑‑ not a lot of it,
but there is some this week.
5421
THE CHAIRPERSON: There was
some this week.
5422
MR. P. MANN:
Yes.
5423
THE CHAIRPERSON: Obviously
you didn't bid for any.
5424
MR. P. MANN: Of course
not. Obviously all we can do right
now is go on best estimates. We
have tried to stay on the high side.
Particularly in areas like utility costs, we have set the starting budget
ranges considerably higher than we would on a percentage basis and other
operations as well.
5425
THE CHAIRPERSON: When we
reviewed the Grande Prairie applications, we asked all the applicants ‑‑
and we have already asked the first two applicants that we heard today ‑‑
how many new radio stations do you think the Fort McMurray market will
sustain?
5426
MR. P. MANN: Mr. Edwards
will take that one.
5427
MR. EDWARDS: We think
probably we could accommodate two commercial licences in the
market.
5428
The next question will be whether one of the specialties as well, and we
don't see that as a problem.
5429
THE CHAIRPERSON: Say that we
follow your answer and we were to come up to granting two new commercial
licences, you applied for a Classic Hits format so you I suppose you will have
to say the complementary one will be the AC applicants, I
suspect.
5430
MR. EDWARDS: I think in this
marketplace the criteria should be not so much format driven ‑‑ someone
else has already alluded to it.
Having had experience in the Yellowknife marketplace with zero vacancy
and a lottery system for getting new construction built, we think if you are
going to license two applications they have to be companies that have strong
financial background.
5431
On format diversity, John Yerxa can answer.
5432
MR. YERXA: I will be
brief.
5433
We basically identified two clear format opportunities in the market: the
Classic Hits option, leaning slightly male, which is in the application; and
more of a female targeted mainstream of Pop AC, which is of course reflected in
the other applicants at this hearing.
5434
THE CHAIRPERSON: We have
already asked that question and we will be asking it of other
applicants.
5435
If the Commission was to come up with the decision to grant two licences
but they happen to be to two organizations that are well‑structured,
well‑financed and very capable but they happen to have chosen the same format
and they make the assumption that you are one of the two, what would be your
position?
5436
MR. EDWARDS: I guess whoever
gets on the air first will capture the format.
5437
Throughout the company we run every format, so we would look for the
remaining hole, and John has just identified it.
5438
THE CHAIRPERSON: But if you
had to choose the other format, what will it mean to your business
plan?
5439
MR. EDWARDS: I don't think
that it will change the business plan that much. We would certainly continue with a
strong emphasis on news and information, which is a foundation for our
company.
5440
And on the revenue side, Paul...?
5441
MR. P. MANN: Yes. There may be obviously a more
competitive aspect with three operators as opposed to two. That may impact rate
overall.
5442
As far as the ability to sell either the AC format or the Classic Hits
format, equally are well represented in the marketplace. From that perspective on the business
plan, we don't think it would make a measurable
difference.
5443
MS MICALLEF: Our research
did identify two format holes.
5444
John, I don't know if you want to add anything more in terms of the
research that you have conducted, but it might be useful in this
analysis.
5445
MR. YERXA: If we were first
in ‑‑ and again, this is very similar to Grande
Prairie.
5446
If two applicants get licensed, there is this scramble. Obviously our first choice is the
Classic Hits leaning more male, more reflective of the population which actually
is about 55:45 female overall.
5447
But there is significant opportunity on the AC side. As the Commission is well aware, the AC
format itself is one of the most popular formats in Canada. In Fort McMurray, however, given the
male predominance as far as the population, it gives us more of an advantage to
position ourselves Classic Hits leaning male. But there is really good significant
potential there for an AC leaning female as well.
5448
THE CHAIRPERSON: I will move
now to the standard question regarding music and programming, but keep in mind
the discussions that we just had in trying to answer the remaining set of
questions.
5449
I am not saying here that we are announcing that we are going to grant
two licences. We are only
investigating various scenarios, and that one we felt had to be discussed
because all the applicants, again, are very well established applicants and they
choose to be in one camp or in the other one.
5450
So usually the programming format is one of the consideration factors
that we use. It is always one
factor that we take into consideration in coming up with a decision, but we also
have to investigate other alternatives since all the commercial applicants
choose either one camp or the other.
That may end up being the discriminator factor, but we also wanted to
make sure that we had a balanced discussion that would allow for the Commission
to have a better understanding of what could happen if were to choose two
applicants that have chosen the same format.
5451
You stated in both your application and your oral presentation that with
the format you have chosen you will be skewed more male and it will be 35‑54
target. And you have narrowed it in
your written supplementary brief to be 37‑47 to some
extent.
5452
Could you be more specific on the median age of your
listener?
5453
MR. P. MANN: The 37‑47
target is essentially equal amounts on either side of the median number, which
would be 42. So that would be the
core.
5454
And then 35‑54 would be the broader target.
5455
As far as the male‑female skew, again it is pretty subtle and generally
in line with the population base, which is 55 percent male, 44 percent
female.
5456
John, would you like to add anything?
5457
MR. YERXA: Nothing to
add.
5458
THE CHAIRPERSON: You have
had an opportunity to review ‑‑ I am taking for granted here you have had
an opportunity to review the applications of both Standard and Newcap who also
have chosen a Classic Hits format.
5459
In terms of music, how will your service differ from those two
proposals?
5460
MR. YERXA: With regard to
dealing specifically with the other Classic Hits applicants, first of all,
dealing with Standard, Vista will be putting its primary focus on the 70's and
80's. However, Standard, certainly
according to the presentation which was just made, will be apparently focusing
on a much more current music format and what may essentially be more Pop‑based,
which actually reflects our alternative selection, our alternative format, and
what is being proposed by the three other AC applicants.
5461
The fact is again that we have identified a Classic Hits format focused
really primarily on the 70's and 80's leaning male and as I said, especially
with their description of some of the aspects of the format, like John Tesh,
which seems to be more within the domain of the Easy Rock, if I am not
mistaken. It just seems to be more
along that AC line, based on my interpretation of
it.
5462
Therefore, it would leave Vista and Newcap. And I believe, based on my analysis of
their applications, that we are going to be somewhat older in our skew. Given what was in their supplementary
briefs, I believe that they are probably going to be about 30 percent 70's,
40 percent 80's. And we are
flipped. We are a little more 70's
than 80's based on my initial analysis of what they had
written.
5463
MR. P. MANN: In addition to
that, I might add that from my assessment of the supplementary briefs of those
two competitors anyways, it would appear that Vista is offering and committing
to near twice as much news and substantial more spoken word than Newcap and
Standard as well.
5464
THE CHAIRPERSON: The
incumbent CKYX‑FM station, appears to be offering a blended Rock
format.
5465
Could you please elaborate on the differences between your proposal and
what they are currently doing.
5466
MR. YERXA: From the
information that we have gathered, the most recently actually off their website
as of this morning, it appears that their format may be more similar to perhaps
what they were proposing in Grande Prairie.
5467
It seems that they are more of a current‑based Rock
format.
5468
Frankly, as broad as they are, that is a good thing if you are only one
of two stations in the market. But
I would suggest that their primary focus is at the younger end. Certainly our
research reflects that.
5469
And any Classic Rock elements they play seem to be there more for
texturing as opposed to a primary focus.
5470
I know looking at the website, for example, this weekend is their Best in
New Rock weekend. They have a lot
of references to the White Stripes, Green Day, Van Halen, the Killers. They are very current focused, I think
perhaps along the lines of a number of their other stations that they run very
well in the O.K. organization.
5471
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank
you.
5472
In your supplementary brief you are using the expression "family
friendly". Could you elaborate on
what you mean by "family friendly".
5473
MR. P. MANN: I think it is
just a reflection of the demographic target that we expect to attract, being
young parents. If you note the
demographics, of children 5‑to‑14 in the marketplace, there is a lot of
children. So we expect that there
would be a lot of children listening.
5474
We would avoid the tactics of "shock jocks" and other sort of maybe more
typically male leaning type stations.
5475
THE CHAIRPERSON: That
answers my questions regarding the format and music. We will now discuss news, spoken word
and local programming.
5476
You have provided us with a list of people or staff that you are
contemplating to hire, and I suspect your business plan is based on those 16.5
employees.
5477
MR. P. MANN: That is
correct.
5478
THE CHAIRPERSON: I can see
that you will have 3.5 news people, one part‑time and three fulltime
positions.
5479
What will be the role of these news people?
5480
MR. HICKS: We are going to
take the following approach, Mr. Chair.
5481
We will have a morning show host, but the news director will likely be a
person who, as per our ethic throughout the Vista group, will not co‑host the
morning show but oversee proper news gathering all day.
5482
So the news director would be typically in the office at 8:30‑9:00
o'clock, working throughout the day, supervising, story hunting and, as I do as
one of the news directors, go out to evening meetings and make sure the local
contacts are built up upon.
5483
The second news position would probably therefore be the co‑host of the
morning show. So news position No.
2 as you see marked there, the second fulltimer, would typically be a person
coming in at 5:00 in the morning, being a good reporter news‑type person, to be
a co‑host in the morning, to handle the breaking morning news stories, to make
sure there is something for the noon deadline, to set up some angles and some
things to chase early in the afternoon.
5484
And news position three, the third fulltimer, again mainly working
through the day, available and working their 40‑hour‑or‑so week so they can also
attend evening meetings.
5485
Obviously in a small community virtually every local and regional
political scenario, most meetings are going to be in the evenings. People are volunteers. You have to have people out until
10:00/11:00 at night and come back and feed it so it is available the very next
morning.
5486
Again that is what the third news position would be doing, and also
probably handling a little bit of sport, handling some of the weekend
stuff.
5487
But our budget does allow for that half position there, that part‑timer:
again ‑‑ and I stress ‑‑ meetings and going to the functions and going
to the airshed quality protest.
That is big. That is like
everything we do.
5488
So the part‑timer would be available to do that and to assist on weekend
shifts as well. We work a roto
system where we allocate a week in advance and people know they have to have
flexi hours. That is what we do in
our little newsrooms.
5489
THE CHAIRPERSON: And you
have allocated sufficient funding to hire a good news director. I can see from the descriptions that you
are giving that you are not necessarily looking to seasoned news people but some
people with some experience.
5490
MR. HICKS: Before I hand
this over to Paul from the financial aspect, yes, that is the drive at
Vista. We like to make sure that
the drive is to get a good news director in place. That is the king pin for us. And they help in training those people
up.
5491
Obviously we expect to get young reporters in as well, because that is
the affordability aspect. That news
position two, three and Mr. or Mrs. Half there, they need to be brought through
the ranks.
5492
Certainly the news director is somebody very important and we would
expect to pay them quite well.
5493
I know Paul has the answer to the financial aspect of
that.
5494
MR. P. MANN: We have
budgeted a news director position that is 50 percent higher than our typical
highest news director position right now in the current Vista
operations.
‑‑‑ Pause
5495
THE CHAIRPERSON: You have
short answers.
5496
MR. P. MANN: I'm a short
guy.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5497
THE CHAIRPERSON: But we
appreciate short answers and to the point.
5498
Will you be developing synergies on the news side with the other Vista
radio stations that you have, the 19 that you talked about
earlier?
5499
MR. HICKS: From a news and
spoken word point of view, Mr. Chair, again because our philosophy is so locally
based for each of our stations, from a story‑sharing point of view, as I
discussed with you yesterday, it is not a big deal. We encourage all our operations to keep
an eye on what we are all doing, though, because it just helps improve the
standard of how we are handling things locally.
5500
You can see somebody doing something on the island. You see somebody doing something in
Grande Prairie, if we get that as well, and you are sitting in Fort
McMurray. You look for potential
ideas.
5501
There is one important synergy, though, and that is this whole idea about
bringing people through the ranks.
As we grow as a mini news organization within the Vista Group, if you
like, we have a really good idea about local news. When we bring those young people into
news rooms, the synergies could very much be moving people up the ladder. I think that is a logical synergy that I
haven't heard spoken much this week.
5502
If people prove themselves in one operation, we are a small market,
people can go out and perhaps become that important news director a couple of
years down the line.
5503
So that is an obvious synergy there in terms of news and spoken
word.
5504
I don't know if anybody has anything else to add in terms of the
technical aspects.
5505
MR. P. MANN: I think we
addressed many of these similarly yesterday. Bryan touched on some of the
administrative areas we have gained on with new
technology.
5506
And again the reason I believe I noted in this particular grid, just to
clarify the point, we did not include the shared half‑time tech position within
the 16.5 positions in this either.
5507
THE CHAIRPERSON: I
appreciate that.
5508
I heard in your oral presentation and I heard Mr. Edwards yesterday and
you, and probably in the brief and also in broadcast dialogue, that Vista's news
philosophy is local, local, local and more local.
5509
But what is happening about the non‑local items that are of interest to
the community?
5510
MR. HICKS: Of course. And we don't ignore
those.
5511
I made a point yesterday ‑‑ and I stressed through our
organization ‑‑ that I have noted from listening to my competitors, from
driving around B.C. and listening in recent years, the wires, the so‑called
non‑local, the provincial, national, international stories, I think ‑‑ and
I'm hoping this is the dawn of a new revolution in small market
radio.
5512
Those wire stories are sometimes given far bigger precedent than they
should on local news.
5513
So yes, if something big is happening, if Prime Minister Harper it
appears was going to have his head cut off, then you bet it's going to go in the
news.
5514
I don't want to sound flippant about it. That doesn't mean we ring the local
Mayor up and say what are you doing to make sure you don't get your head cut
off. That's not
local.
5515
THE CHAIRPERSON: That's not
the local ‑‑
5516
MR. HICKS: That's not the
local reaction.
5517
We have heard this discussed by other professional news organizations
here, that you use the national and international as a springboard for getting
logical, relevant local issues. But
yes, of course we have a wire service.
Of course we have a finger on the pulse in terms of monitoring some of
our favourite national, provincial, international websites so that we can be
kind of aware of what is going on out there in the big wide
world.
5518
And yes, we do follow those stories.
5519
I don't want to intimate for a second that we ignore provincial, larger
regional and national stories.
5520
You know, I have to stress this is the Vista philosophy, Mr.
Chair.
5521
Why would anybody tune to me at the top of the hour every day? Are they tuning into me because they
think I am competing with the CBC or CNN?
No way.
5522
They are tuning into me because they have a genuine interest about their
community because they know I share that passion with them as well. And that is massive for us. I am absolutely dedicated to that. I feel very, very strongly about
that.
5523
THE CHAIRPERSON: Throughout
this hearing we also talked about other spoken word than
news.
5524
And when you are talking about news, you are talking about news and
sports. Are you including
surveillance and road conditions?
5525
MR. HICKS: Certainly. And for the terms of this and the matrix
that we have given you, the broken down bits here, when we talk about our news
allocation, we are talking about news and sports.
5526
So when we talk about our weather and our road conditions, that is local
spoken word, yes, a couple of hours' worth there a week.
5527
And we have other elements, if the Commission would like to take a look
at that breakdown.
5528
We have, you can see, a lot of weather, a lot of roads seven days a
week. We also have a specialist
component.
5529
I don't want to harp too much on it, but obviously energy is important to
Fort McMurray. You know, there are
going to be lots of other community things happening.
5530
Fort McMurray is not necessarily a community that is just oil and
gas. This is a community that is
trying to evolve, trying to develop.
People want to stick around for a generation or
two.
5531
You get the Domesday people who may say well, watch out for the
bust. But our local news and our
reflective element, that Here's What's Happening piece you can see in the
penultimate column there, Here's What's Happening, 30 seconds or so every hour,
we want to hear a lot more about what the community is telling
us.
5532
And it is not just the negative.
5533
And that is another thing that I am very, very passionate about. I have heard an awful lot this week
about people saying well, you've got socialist views and of course you can't
ignore those. You have an expanding
Fort McMurray that is getting almost too big for
itself.
5534
Of course there is crime and alcohol and drugs and family break‑up issues
and infrastructure, and the roads can't handle the amount of traffic. But there are positive things out there
as well, because this is a community.
5535
People have ‑‑ somehow in the last couple of days I have detected
that Fort McMurray is this Dodge City that we are going to try and look after,
going to try and be part of. And
those are empty words for me. I
think there is a lot of women out there, there is a lot of children, there is a
lot of families, a lot of single parents out there. So there will be a lot of these Here's
What's Happening community element news features that will be
positive.
5536
That doesn't mean I am ignoring the potential negatives and the
seriousness of what is going on.
5537
THE CHAIRPERSON: I am
focusing on your ski and outdoor feature that I see that you want to broadcast a
couple of times every day of the week.
5538
Is there a hill to go to ski?
Or after they get the oil from the sands, will there be a hill
again?
5539
MR. HICKS: There is enough
money to build a Whistler out there, sure.
5540
But no, we have put that in as
ski/outdoor/recreational.
5541
I think it is important to look at things like this for Fort
McMurray. There is a lot of people
going in working seven days on, seven days off, or 14 days on, six days
off.
5542
People, certainly in the wintertime, like to know what are they going to
do? It is a shift‑based working
labour economy, a large part of it, 50 percent of it. People want to know when they are going
out of Fort McMurray for five days, what is happening in the Rockies? How is the ski scenario going? In the summer, how is the fishing in the
lakes and the water temperature scenario looking?
5543
So it is just something else we are throwing into the
mix.
5544
We are aware of the type of community that Fort McMurray is. I think those are key, extra, important
local elements to tell people about: where they can go on those important
hard‑earned five days off.
5545
THE CHAIRPERSON: You also
have a feature that you call Here's What's Happening. Is it a newscast of half a
minute?
5546
MR. HICKS: I will let Jason
talk on that.
5547
MR. JASON MANN: It is more
community event type organization, fundraisers and that type of information,
reflecting what non‑profit organizations are doing in the community, or if there
is a car rally, that kind of information.
5548
THE CHAIRPERSON: If I am
looking again at your table. You
are projecting 92 newscasts per week for a total minutes of 375. You have also scheduled 622 other spoken
word minutes, plus the recreational feature, the PSAs that you are looking at
and other news features, for a total of 17 hours and five minutes of spoken
voice.
5549
Am I reading your chart properly?
5550
MR. J. MANN: Sort of. The structured spoken word would be 10
hours and 20 minutes.
5551
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Yes?
5552
MR. J. MANN: And then, in
addition to that, the 6 hours 45 minutes approximated for non‑scheduled
spoken word. Happy talk I
think ‑‑ sort of happy.
5553
THE CHAIRPERSON: Something
happens during the happy hour?
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5554
MR. HICKS: Well, if they
will let us run a live link into the bar, sure.
5555
THE CHAIRPERSON: All
right.
5556
I looked into your CTD and I don't think I have that many questions
because you were quite clear.
5557
Well, they have provided me with a list of questions, but I think your
oral presentation and your submissions and your replies to the deficiency letter
where surely inclusive, and you also committed earlier in your oral presentation
to spread it over a seven year period rather than a licence
term.
5558
MR. EDWARDS: That is
correct, seven year operating period.
5559
THE CHAIRPERSON: You are
ready to accept a condition of licence that will be structured in that
way?
5560
MR. EDWARDS: Yes. And no, I don't think that Fort McMurray
is a medium market.
5561
THE CHAIRPERSON: Is it a big
market?
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5562
THE CHAIRPERSON: You have
proposed to allocate $85,000 through the seven consecutive broadcast years
to the Fort McMurray school district for the provision of bursaries for less
fortunate children who might otherwise not be able to afford music education as
well as an annual music scholarship award.
5563
Could you provide a cost breakdown of that $85,000?
5564
MR. EDWARDS: Not at this
time, but what would be appropriate as far as time lines if you required
it?
5565
THE CHAIRPERSON: Well, I
think crossing our fingers, we hope to terminate the hearing tomorrow at the end
of the end, so if you could file it before we enter into Phase II it would be
very well appreciated.
5566
MR. J. MANN:
Okay.
5567
THE CHAIRPERSON: So he's
going to be giving you some homework for tonight. Rather than going to dinner in a top
Edmonton restaurant you will be working in your room.
5568
THE CHAIRPERSON: Can you
tell us who will be responsible to allocate these funds?
5569
MR. EDWARDS: Sure
thing.
5570
THE CHAIRPERSON: Can you
tell us who will be responsible to allocate these funds?
5571
MR. EDWARDS: The school
district.
5572
THE CHAIRPERSON: The school
district.
5573
Will you have any input or is it money that you are going to cut a cheque
and send it to them?
5574
MR. J. MANN: Virtually
so. What I would propose is we
would submit basically a draft budget.
We have had discussions with them and they have noted that there is an
equal need as we discovered in Grande Prairie and so exactly how it would break
down I'm sorry, I wouldn't be able to provide probably an accurate confirmed
finished number but an estimate we could.
5575
THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay,
fine.
5576
MR. EDWARDS: If I may, just
to clarify, I'm not sure we heard the correct question.
5577
This is a direct cash contribution.
5578
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Yes.
5579
MR. EDWARDS: Yes, we would
cut a cheque.
5580
THE CHAIRPERSON: But you say
it is going to be distributed for bursaries, one hand, and also to cover the
cost ‑‑ it's going to be strictly bursaries, or is it money that could be
used to purchase musical instruments?
5581
MR. J. MANN: To a great
extent ‑‑ this arms' length completely from us. This is a cash cheque being made and a
bursary could go towards funding of music festival appearance or, in the event
that they would require some musical instruments, new base drums or new trumpet
for somebody, it would be available in that form as well, as I understand from
our dialogue.
5582
THE CHAIRPERSON: What
mechanism will you in place to make sure that the money has been used for the
purpose of music?
5583
Because if you sent a cheque to the public school district and they think
the roof has to be repaired and the priority is to repair the roof, what assures
you that the money that you are giving them goes directly to the object that you
have ‑‑
5584
MR. J. MANN: I will defer to
Ms Micallef.
5585
MS MICALLEF: Thank
you.
5586
We would have to reach specific agreement with the school board as to how
we would monitor their spending and they would have to verify to us that in fact
the money was spent accordingly. We
have not worked out that level of detail with them. But there is a need, there is a desire
and we are willing to fulfil that desire and that need, we just have to work out
the mechanics with them, but that is very much on our mind as
well.
5587
THE CHAIRPERSON: And so far
they are responding positively to do that?
5588
MS MICALLEF: Completely,
yes.
5589
THE CHAIRPERSON: You also
have a commitment to fund native women in the arts. In many previous commissions decisions
funding towards Aboriginal initiative has been taken to be more of a benefit to
the broadcasting system as a whole rather than a direct CTD
contribution.
5590
If the Commission was to come to the conclusion that it is not an
acceptable benefit for the purpose of CTD commitment, what will your position
be?
5591
MR. EDWARDS: Well, obviously
we would accept that and we would increase FACTOR's amount by $7,500. We would, however, continue the
commitment to the native women and the arts because we have already made
it.
5592
THE CHAIRPERSON: I
understand that you already have had discussion with the native women in the
arts for that purpose.
5593
Could you provide some evidence of the commitments made by the native
women of the arts? Do you have any
written ‑‑
5594
MR. J. MANN: Oh,
written. I'm sorry, we have
requested that.
5595
MR. P. MANN: Yes, we have
requested just a written affirmation of their agreement, or their verbal
agreement with us that if approved the funds would be directed to use in western
Canadian performances and appearances and of a music‑based nature in all
cases. That was our only condition
of them in making the offer.
5596
THE CHAIRPERSON: Obviously
at this stage you haven't got yet a ‑‑
5597
MR. P. MANN: We do not have
it in hand as yet. We have
requested it, however.
5598
THE CHAIRPERSON: You have
requested it?
5599
MR. P. MANN: Yes, we
have.
5600
THE CHAIRPERSON: My last
line of questions will have to do with your technical
submission.
5601
In the event that the Commission decides not to license you on the
frequency that you have applied for, have you considered the use of another
frequency? If yes, which
one?
5602
MR. EDWARDS: Well, there are
several that are available. I'm not
sure that we have chosen which one.
It really depends on if there are two licences and what is left, but
there are three or four remaining.
5603
THE CHAIRPERSON: Three
frequencies.
5604
Those are my questions.
5605
Mrs. Cram...?
5606
COMMISSIONER CRAM: After a
couple of days you should know what I'm going to be
asking.
5607
Live‑to‑air. Thank you very
much for your matrix.
5608
I'm looking at the fact that you are actually giving out weather until
10 o'clock at night. So are
you going to be live‑to‑air until at least then?
5609
MR. EDWARDS: Yes, 6:00 a.m.
to 10:00 p.m., Monday through Friday, which means 10 hours of voice‑track Monday
through Friday, and on the weekend we would voice‑track 12 hours each day, for a
total of 34 hours a week.
5610
COMMISSIONER CRAM: So you
are live, then, 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. ‑‑
5611
MR. EDWARDS:
Yes.
5612
COMMISSIONER CRAM: ‑‑ Monday
through Friday?
5613
MR. EDWARDS:
Yes.
5614
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And live
on Saturday, Sunday when?
5615
MR. EDWARDS: Typically the
answer is 6:00 to noon, but on Saturdays and Sundays we found 7:00 to 1:00 to be
a better time.
5616
MR. J. MANN: The weather
forecasts pat that would be general in nature and reflective of the upcoming
day, and should there be any significant changes we do have a protocol in place
for updating the information.
5617
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Okay. So that's why when
it's raining outside you are not going to have somebody saying, "And it's a
lovely sunny day", okay.
5618
Thank you very much.
5619
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Commissioner Williams.
5620
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good
afternoon, Ms Micallef and panel.
5621
Vista has applied in both Grande Prairie and Fort McMurray
marketplaces. Your application
suggests that you expect Fort McMurray to be more
lucrative.
5622
Would that be a fair statement?
5623
MR. P. MANN: There is a
start year projection that is about $100,000 higher in revenue. On the other hand, at the EBITDA level
we actually go from anticipating being in the black in year in Grande Prairie to
about $137,000 in the red in year one in Fort McMurray.
5624
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So
you would say they were similar then?
5625
MR. P. MANN: I guess you
would have to ‑‑ if you parallel the dollars plus or minus a similar
opportunity, but we aren't pretending that we are going to be in the lack from
day one.
5626
I think we also have to realistically consider that depending on when one
might be licensed and get this on the air, any number of factors based on how
Fort McMurray is particularly. Fort
McMurray is operating right now, could change that bottom line yet again. It's mainly the cost side of the
operation that would be...
5627
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I
have take a quick glance at each of your financial projections on each of your
applications and I guess you are showing a total revenue at year seven of $2.7
million from Fort McMurray, actually $2.8, $2.798, $2.8 million, and
$2.1 million out of Grande Prairie.
5628
Anecdotally, I think we heard yesterday about this time in the afternoon
actually that the Grande Prairie market might be quite a bit more
lucrative. In fact, it has been
suggested by others that Grande Prairie market might be quite larger than the
Fort McMurray.
5629
How did you arrive your revenue projections?
5630
MR. P. MANN: At the $6
million for the market size.
5631
First of all, we have a pretty good handle on what the national
business does in that market.
As I stated earlier, we believe it is going to end up about $1.5 for this
current fiscal broadcast year; 25 percent range as a percent for national
business in may of the markets we work in is fairly average. That projection would be one way
of suggesting that it is likely to be in the $6 million range as
a conservative estimate on which to build a model.
5632
We also have a pretty good sense of the rates that are being achieved,
which are in the $50 to $55 per station range at the national level, and of
course because it is a one operator environment, at the retail level running
what appears to be extremely heavy inventory. No reason to believe that the retail
costs or the net local costs are dramatically that much lower than the national
rates.
5633
So in taking into account that we believe there is likely a very high or
close to sell‑off ratio running currently with the existing
sole operator on those two stations, and estimating in the sort of $93 to
$100 range combo, if you will, at retail rates balanced against that
25 percent expectation on national, 46 million became a reasonable model,
all other factors unknown essentially, to base that model
on.
5634
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We
heard yesterday that the trading area of Grande Prairie is approximately 250,000
population. What would the similar
trading area be in the Fort McMurray area?
5635
MR. P. MANN: Well, I guess
the major and most interesting difference is, the majority of the Wood Buffalo
region at it impacts the market that is Forth McMurray is about 85 percent
in the City of Fort McMurray, unlike the myriad of communities that exist in the
Peace country which contribute to that much broader trading area, much moire
like a southern Alberta in the case of, say, a Lethbridge where you are drawing
on numbers of smaller secondary communities.
5636
The secondary communities within any kind of distance of Fort McMurray
are extremely small and extremely limited without particularly any kind of local
viable mainstream business base to add to a local business
base.
5637
In other words, what we are saying is the business retail base of the
market of Fort McMurray is what is largely within the boundaries of the City of
fort McMurray.
5638
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So if
you use your numbers at six million and the updated Grande Prairie
estimated number, I think provided by an operator, of nine, I guess that
would suggest to me that Grande Prairie is possibly a quite a bit
larger market.
5639
MR. P. MANN: Well, and there
is a function of rate there too, I believe, that would like be found to in real
life be higher at the retail level.
5640
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay. If you were successful
in only one of your applications, Grande Prairie or Fort McMurray, which would
be Vista's choice? Recognizing the
choice if not Vista's, I'm just curious.
5641
MR. P. MANN: Well, we are
going to be as candid as we always are and say Grande
Prairie.
5642
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank
you very much.
5643
That is my question, Mr. Chair.
5644
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Commissioner Cugini...?
5645
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
5646
I just wanted to pursue one line of questioning with Mr. Hicks for a
moment. I heard you say earlier
that one of the philosophies of Vista is to promote from within and that that
may be the case for the news director, that you may take a Vista news
director from another market and put them in Fort
McMurray?
5647
MR. HICKS: Yes. We are obviously a fledgling company in
the sense that we have only come together in less than a year and my role has
been to go to the existing news directors and find out how they tick and if they
are the sort of right people to push forward our local
philosophy.
5648
And there has been a degree, even within the existing news directors, of
a little bit of a retrain, because I would be the first to confess that some
people have lost their way a little in the commercial news market in B.C. over
the years and there is a sense of a need for a coming around in terms of why do
we exist, guys and girls? What are
you running that story instead of giving me more on the story round the
street?
5649
So yes, the philosophy would be to train, to nurture and to get that
whole local ethic going within.
It's starting to happen now.
We have had some quality news director briefings and the idea would be as
our reporters get better at what they are doing, yes, you have that trade‑off,
don't you. You have a great
reporter who is operating in Courtney and gets to know everybody wonderfully
well in Courtney and then all of a sudden you say to them, "But now you are
going to Fort McMurray as a news director", well, that's a
challenge.
5650
Mr. Langford can vouch for when you are in a big organization, as I have
been, I have worked with BBC World Services, I have worked for South African
Broadcasting Corporation, you get shunted off to Capetown, to Johannesburg, to
Tel Aviv, to wherever, you have to learn the market, but that is your step up
the ladder. You go in there and you
take on responsibility like news directorships.
5651
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Have you
had an opportunity to survey the market in Fort
McMurray ‑‑
5652
MR. HICKS:
No.
5653
COMMISSIONER CRAM: ‑‑ to see if there are not necessarily news
directors, because I can understand how you would want to have somebody who was
experienced leading a team of reporters and news staff, but are there people
currently trained, perhaps fresh out of school, who are available to be hired
from the Fort McMurray are to work in the station?
5654
MR. HICKS: I haven't made
that study. The logic with any of
our positioning ‑‑ and we have done some recruitment obviously already and
we have expanded to a modest degree some of our existing B.C. operations, you
will always look in the local community first, yes.
5655
I would like nothing more than to have a conversation with an existing
news director in the market and see if they are looking forward
very much to escaping some of the traps that small market radio stations
have gotten themselves into over the past couple of years and proving to me how
passionately local they really are, because we can certainly offer them the
salary, but I need these people to come around.
5656
MS MICALLEF: We also find
that people find us. As they realize what markets we are
operating in or as opportunities arise, people find us. So we may not know of somebody who is in
fact qualified to either act as a news director or even work on our news staff
who may in fact reside in Fort McMurray currently, but they will find us. Oftentimes, you know, they will realize
that the opportunity arises and they will find us. So we are open to
that.
5657
COMMISSIONER CUGINI: Thank
you.
5658
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
5659
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mrs.
Micallef, it is your opportunity to tell us in a few words why do you think that
the Commission should give you the licence for Fort
McMurray?
5660
MS MICALLEF: Thank you,
Mr. Chairman and Members of the Commission.
5661
Fort McMurray is an exciting and challenging opportunity and you have
spoken with us today about some of the challenges that we and others would have
to face if we had the privilege of being licensed to operate in Forth
McMurray.
5662
The citizens of Fort McMurray want and deserve additional opportunities
for additional music, diversity of programming, diversity of voices. They also are entitled to
stability.
5663
We also believe that the incumbents are entitled to stability. So one of the most important things that
we would ask you to consider is those applicants with a realistic business plan,
with experience in markets similar to Fort McMurray and with expectations that
are realistic.
5664
Vista's balance sheet is strong, strong enough to withstand any
surprises. We have experience in
markets similar to this.
5665
Vista's business plan is realistic.
We don't use a template, we did research before we applied, and in fact
are continuing to be satisfied with the research we have conducted and continue
to conduct in supporting this business plan.
5666
Jason, Paul, Bryan and I are committed to this industry for the long
term. We don't see Fort McMurray as
a quick buck, in fact we believe that it is going to require a lot of patience
and time and a lot of skill to work in that community.
5667
We also see, though, that the operator who is successful in operating
that community would be rewarded with the knowledge that they have enriched an
already vibrant community and we would like to be that
operator.
5668
Thank you.
5669
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much, Mrs. Micallef, thank you to your team.
5670
We will take a 5‑minute break and hear the next
applicant.
5671
The next applicant will be the last one for today, so we will start
tomorrow morning at 8:30 with the presentation by Harvard
Broadcasting.
‑‑‑ Upon recessing at 1702 /
Suspension à 1702
‑‑‑ Upon resuming at 1714 / Reprise
à 1714
5672
THE CHAIRPERSON: Order,
please. Madam
Secretary...?
5673
THE SECRETARY: Before we
proceed to the next application I would just like to indicate for the record
that Standard Radio has filed their revised projected financial forecast for
their Fort McMurray application, as well as their news and information
programming grid. The documents
will be available on the application file in the examination
room.
5674
We will now proceed with Item 14 on the agenda, which is an
application by Golden West Broadcasting Ltd. for a licence to operate an
English‑language FM commercial radio programming undertaking in Fort
McMurray.
5675
The new station would operate on frequency 102.9 MHz (channel 275B) with
an effective radiated power of 20,000 watts, non‑directional antenna/antenna
height of 54 metres).
5676
The applicant has recently submitted to the CRTC clarification related to
possible alternative frequency options.
5677
Appearing for the applicant is Mr. Elmer Hildebrand, who will
introduce his colleagues.
5678
You will then have 20 minutes for your
presentation.
5679
Mr. Hildebrand..."
PRESENTATION /
PRÉSENTATION
5680
MR. HILDEBRAND: Thank
you.
5681
Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission and Commission staff, thank you for
having us here today for this important hearing.
5682
My name is Elmer Hildebrand, President and CEO of Golden West
Broadcasting. I am also on the CWC
Board, Secretary Treasurer of BBM, the Secretary Treasurer of the Radio
Marketing Bureau.
5683
With me are Lyndon Friesen, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating
Officer of Golden West; and Keith Leask, long‑time Manager of Golden West's High
River/Okotoks radio operation and a resident of Alberta. Also with us is Ken Goldstein, an
economist well known in the broadcast industry.
5684
I have been in the small market radio business since 1957, so it will be
50 years next year.
5685
Lyndon Friesen has been with Golden West since 1975; and Keith Leask
joined Golden West in 1983. We
have a bit of history and stability going for us.
5686
The point we want to make today is this, and that
is:
5687
Here is a little background about Golden West:
5688
Our Company has made a living on serving non‑metropolitan markets across
the Prairies. We started in 1957
with a small AM station in Altona, Manitoba. Altona is the site of our Head Office
and the community has seen steady growth since 1957 and today has a population
of 3,500 people.
5689
From the austere beginnings in 1957, our organization has continued to
grow, always by serving non‑metro markets.
Today we operate AM stations in Altona, Steinbach, Winkler/Morden,
Boissevain, and Portage la Prairie in Manitoba, plus AM stations in Estevan,
Weyburn, Moose Jaw, Swift Current, Shaunavon, Rosetown, and Kindersley in
Saskatchewan, plus one AM station in High River/Okotoks,
Alberta.
5690
Twenty years ago we started providing FM services to some of our rural
communities and today we operate FM stations in Steinbach, Winkler/Morden, and
Portage la Prairie in Manitoba, and in Saskatchewan we have FM stations in
Estevan, Moose Jaw, Swift Current, Kindersley, and a new FM station will be
launched in Weyburn later this year, plus we have an FM station in High
River/Okotoks, Alberta as well.
5691
We also have one specialty FM station in Southern Manitoba programming
all gospel music.
5692
We are steadily trying to increase the number of FM stations so that our
company will have long term viability if and when AM radio eventually fades off
into the sunset.
5693
MR. FRIESEN: This item
brings us to the plan to provide "local" radio service to Fort McMurray,
Alberta.
5694
Fort McMurray has grown dramatically as a community in the last 10 years
and now needs our kind of "local radio service".
5695
Today, people in Fort McMurray have a choice of only two private radio
signals, and with the dramatic population growth in the city there is now a need
for an additional "local" radio service.
Golden West's philosophy, or Golden West's culture of community service
radio, will be a breath of fresh air for the city. We will cater to a broad cross‑section
of the community, and our news and public affairs will cover the social/cultural
side of the community, as well as the obvious economic
activity.
5696
What we will provide is "local ‑‑ every day ‑‑ seven days a
week!"
5697
In monitoring the stations currently serving Fort McMurray, we find the
lack of local news stands out dramatically. Today's residents of the area hear a lot
of national and international news, with very little local
news.
5698
We will turn this upside down.
With 95 percent local news and 5 percent other news, basically,
we will be local, live, local all the time. The same will be true for
sports. Local will be first and
foremost. It's what we
do.
5699
This will be well in excess of 18 hours every
week.
5700
Since a large percentage of people working in the area are from
Newfoundland, we will take that into account when doing Canadian news
stories. We will also plan to have
a regular two‑hour Saturday night program specifically for
Newfoundlanders.
5701
MR. LEASK: Our Canadian
Talent Development Funds will be used to a large extent in helping "local"
musical groups to further their careers.
In addition to helping local musical groups further their careers at the
financial levels outlined in our application, we are also going to set aside
some of our CTD commitment to assist the Aboriginal community. There are between 6,000 and 7,000 people
of Aboriginal heritage in Fort McMurray and area. We will help with sponsorship and CTD
funds.
5702
We understand that the Commission needs to decide which of the seven
applications looking to serve Fort McMurray will provide the best service to the
area. There is no doubt that you
will hear many promises during this hearing from all the applicants on how they
will serve the area.
5703
MR. HILDEBRAND: We submit
that when deliberating and finally determining which applicant will
actually provide the best service, the Commission need look only at the track
record of the various applications.
5704
Golden West's track record at providing real local "live service" to
Prairie communities is well established.
We have the experience, the people and the resources to give Fort
McMurray the kind of community service that is superior by any measure to the
other applications before you this week.
5705
We are ready to go to work and respectfully ask that our application be
approved.
5706
We will be happy to answer any questions.
5707
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Hildebrand.
5708
I am asking Commissioner Langford to ask you the first set of
questions.
5709
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
5710
I do have some questions I prepared, but I do have one specific one
coming just our of your opening remarks, which either means I haven't read
your submission very carefully or there may be something new
here.
5711
At the bottom of page 5 I believe it was you, Mr. Leask, who was
making the remarks on the CTD commitments to assist Aboriginals, the Aboriginal
community, and you end by saying at the end:
"We will help with sponsorships and
CTD grants."
5712
And I have no problem with you doing that, but I don't find that anywhere
else in your CTD commitments in your documents already filed. So am I to assume that is somehow going
to work in your ‑‑ I don't know what, maybe your CD promotions or something
like that?
5713
MR. HILDEBRAND: No. It's part of the Canadian Talent
Development listing that is shown in the application.
5714
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
have that in front of me and I'm not seeing it. So I am probably just wilfully
blind.
5715
MR. HILDEBRAND: No, it isn't
designated there. There are
scholarships that are indicated every year. I will get the exact
numbers here.
5716
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right.
5717
I'm looking at your letter of March 7th, which is the most recent
thing I had on your explanation.
5718
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5719
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Page
4 of that letter. Page 3 of that
letter.
5720
MR. HILDEBRAND: Right. Where we indicate:
"$10,000 annually in scholarships
will be allocated to city, high schools and music
programs..."
5721
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right?
5722
MR. HILDEBRAND: We will
designate, those are five $2,000 scholarships and we will allocate one of those
to an aboriginal community or an aboriginal individual every
year.
5723
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right.
5724
MR. HILDEBRAND: So that is
how we propose to that.
5725
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right.
5726
MR. HILDEBRAND: So it is
part of that process so we are just elaborating on
that section.
5727
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: While
we are there, why don't we just do CTD and get it done with because we are
there.
5728
MR. HILDEBRAND: All
right.
5729
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
have no trouble understanding FACTOR, $15,000. Even a regulator can get that
one.
5730
Starmaker, $25,000 annually, that's clear.
5731
So lets do the scholarships.
I just have a lump sum up until you just
spoke ‑‑
5732
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5733
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ of $10,000 annually. You are now saying that is broken down
into five scholarships for $2,000 each.
5734
MR. HILDEBRAND: That's
right.
5735
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: One
which will be earmarked for ‑‑
5736
MR. HILDEBRAND: Earmarked
for aboriginal.
5737
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: They
could win all five of them ‑‑
5738
MR. HILDEBRAND: They could,
sure.
5739
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ but they are going to get one for
sure?
5740
MR. HILDEBRAND: But we will
make sure that there is at least one every year.
5741
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. That brings me just to the
question ‑‑ you are a veteran at this, you know in a way where I'm
going ‑‑ the question of control over this and third‑party involvement, can
you just give me a description, a narrative of how you will meet the CTD rules
with regard to third party control ‑‑ your oversight, but third party
administration of it?
5742
How will the scholarship system work?
5743
MR. HILDEBRAND: What we do,
we get together with the various organizations, the educational organizations in
the community and determine which one of their programs will be eligible for a
scholarship and then they determine who gets the scholarship and then report to
us and we then cut the cheque to the organization. But they need to give us the name of the
individual.
5744
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
just to make it simple, let's assume we are at Fort
McMurray High ‑‑
5745
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5746
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ and you have met with them and they
identify a candidate through their own system ‑‑ I gather you leave that
to them ‑‑ and then who ‑‑
5747
MR. HILDEBRAND: Right, but
with our parameters.
5748
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I beg
your pardon?
5749
MR. HILDEBRAND: With our
parameters obviously.
5750
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Within your parameters.
5751
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5752
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You
then write the cheque to whom?
5753
MR. HILDEBRAND: To the
school who will give it to the individual.
5754
In some instances these are then awarded during scholarship graduation
events or different venues like that.
5755
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
don't want to sound obtuse, but I am having a little difficulty with
it.
5756
High school is free, obviously, still, at least it was as of
yesterday. So are these for
graduating and then going on somewhere?
Is that ‑‑
5757
MR. HILDEBRAND: On to
further education, yes.
5758
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. So this isn't to be spent by
a Grade 10 student ‑‑
5759
MR. HILDEBRAND: No, no. No.
5760
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ buying an instrument or getting tuition
of some sort?
5761
MR. HILDEBRAND: No, no. This is for graduation, going on to
higher education.
5762
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Going
on, and to some sort of musical or journalistic program I assume that would fit
within CTDs?
5763
MR. HILDEBRAND: Whichever is
applicable, surely.
5764
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. Let's finish up with the
CTD, because I have just the same sort of general questions about the $50,000 CD
production payment.
5765
That is a sizeable amount of money.
How will that work in the sense of ‑‑
5766
MR. HILDEBRAND: Again, that
will be split into five $10,000 units.
5767
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Yes.
5768
MR. HILDEBRAND: In our
applications you will have seen that we are proposing to air a weekly half hour
program of local musical talent in the Fort McMurray area. This is the kind of program that we have
been doing successfully in many of our stations across the
Prairies.
5769
There is amazing talent that comes out of those kinds of events, and we
then provide the money to actually produce a CD for the best of those musical
groups. In many cases they can then
carry on to ‑‑ in some instances they actually make a career
of it.
5770
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right.
5771
MR. HILDEBRAND: So that is
how we have been doing it in our other markets?
5772
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: How
do you choose the winners? Who
chooses the winners, the lucky five?
5773
MR. HILDEBRAND: In Manitoba
we have been doing this for the past few years. We have a talent contest of the best
musical groups and we have an event at a community hall and then there is a
judging process which is judged by a third party, not our employees but people
that we get in to judge the best, and that is how it
then ‑‑
5774
Then work with a recording studio to do the CD and generally we have
found that for $10,000 we can do a pretty good job.
5775
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Is
that an arm's length recording studio?
5776
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Yes.
5777
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. That covers CTD, as far as
I'm concerned. It may be out of
order in the way I thought we might be doing it, but that's fine. Thank you very
much.
5778
I was going to ask you about a budget breakdown on the CD production, but
it seems to me if you have broken down now to five different ones, I mean the
realities of the market pretty well tell us where the money is going
there.
5779
Maybe legal will want something more definite, but I think I have a
sense of it, Mr. Hildebrand.
5780
MR. HILDEBRAND: Thank
you.
5781
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Let
me go back, then, to my starting point.
I was joking earlier, saying you have been through this so many times I
could just probably say "Answer my questions" and you might do it without me
even asking them.
5782
MR. HILDEBRAND: I would then
say, "Use the same answers I gave last time".
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5783
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Yes,
probably. Yes, that could save a
lot of typing for the transcript people.
5784
I want to make it clear that the scope of my questions isn't to determine
whether you can run a radio station.
I think that's a given.
Golden West runs radio stations and, like many of the other people who
appear before us, you know how to do it, you do it well.
5785
But what we are trying to figure out is exactly what that radio
station will look like so that we have a sense of whether you have budgeted
enough, whether your business plan is enough and other things, whether you
will fit into the market and whether you can stand up against this quite
strong OK, perhaps even Rogers competitive force that is
there already.
5786
So I think what I really want to start with before we get to what people
will hear when they turn on the radio after you launch, I just want to get a
sense, kind of almost for the bones, the bare bones of this things. So let's just start really at the
basics.
5787
Are you going to rent or buy a studio?
5788
MR. HILDEBRAND: No, we will
rent facilities.
5789
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You
will rent.
5790
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Yes.
5791
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Maybe
I can get the ‑‑
5792
MR. HILDEBRAND: Initially we
may need to do what some other operators have done in Alberta and work out of a
trailer until we find the right spot.
5793
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Apparently it's not unprecedented, is it?
5794
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5795
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: In
your operating expenses, where would I find that item? In what category would I find
it?
5796
I'm looking at your section 4(1) financial projections for the year
2007.
5797
MR. HILDEBRAND: That would
be in the administration in general and in the technical. You would combine both of those and it
would be part of that budget.
5798
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Part
of each one of those budgets ‑‑
5799
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5800
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ or all of technical and part of
admin?
5801
MR. HILDEBRAND: Part of
admin.
5802
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Part
of admin, all right.
5803
Do you have any idea what that is probably going to set you back, or have
you done enough research on that to know?
5804
MR. HILDEBRAND: Well, I
mean, we have heard a number of different numbers here today, so at this point
we will only use some of those numbers of the people that have already given
those numbers earlier, and so probably in the area of $12‑$15 a square foot we
should be able to find some space.
5805
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Really?
5806
MR. HILDEBRAND: We don't
need high‑end space. We are not
looking for visibility as far as we can be on a second floor
location.
5807
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: What
we just heard from the last applicant, you might find you are in a tent,
but the excitement was intense, as they used to say.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5808
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Does
it surprise you to hear that RE/MAX quoted the last applicant at somewhere
between $22 and $26 a square foot?
5809
MR. HILDEBRAND: No, I'm
sure. And you could get even higher
space, but we wouldn't be looking for that kind of an expensive
space.
5810
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. Do you still plan to
share antenna space with the CBC?
5811
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Yes.
5812
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Would
that be as well under administration and general, in that same
cost?
5813
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Yes.
5814
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
That's included in there?
5815
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5816
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right.
5817
Could you give me a breakdown of employees? If it's in your written material, I
apologize, I didn't see it.
5818
I think this becomes an issue, if you want to know where I'm going and
I'm sure you can guess, we have heard so much about the high costs of living and
the high costs of wages and the competition, and in your own brief it seemed to
me ‑‑ I'm going by memory, but I'm pretty sure in your own supplementary
brief you referred to average wages at somewhere around $93,000 a year, or
something incredibly high like that.
5819
MR. HILDEBRAND: No, that
wouldn't have been mind.
5820
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: It
wouldn't have?
5821
MR. HILDEBRAND: No. No, I
know that.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5822
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Not
for your operation.
5823
MR. HILDEBRAND:
No.
5824
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I'm
talking about in the area itself, not your operation.
5825
MR. HILDEBRAND: Oh,
okay.
5826
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I'm
looking at page 4 of your supplementary brief right at the top where you
say:
"Using the average household income
for the Wood Buffalo CA (in the 2001 Census) at
$93,234..."
5827
So it seems to me you are aware of what is going on
there.
5828
MR. HILDEBRAND: Surely. I mean, Fort McMurray is a very
expensive place and people can earn a lot of money.
5829
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right.
5830
MR. HILDEBRAND: What we are
looking to do for our employees, we are looking to hire local
people.
5831
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay.
5832
MR. HILDEBRAND: In many
instances those will be already second wage earners of the
household ‑‑
5833
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right.
5834
MR. HILDEBRAND: ‑‑ so that we are not looking to move in a lot of
people from outside and so that we anticipate that we will have three full‑time
newspeople and three full‑time announcers.
The news director will double as a news reader and a news reporter. We will
have ‑‑
5835
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Sorry, three news, three announcers and one news
director?
5836
MR. HILDEBRAND: Right. And one of the news people will be the
news director.
5837
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. So
really ‑‑
5838
MR. HILDEBRAND: And then we
will have an evening operator and we will have our sales people ‑‑ the
sales manager will also be the manager.
We will do all of our creative out of our central creative department in
Manitoba. Our traffic will
come out of our central traffic department in Manitoba as well, so that we
basically are looking to have the news and the program people and sales people
on the ground in Fort McMurray.
Those are the people who will be visible.
5839
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right.
5840
MR. HILDEBRAND: So that the
support staff will not necessarily be in Fort McMurray because, as I have
explained earlier, we have an infrastructure in our company that can handle a
lot of the back room work counting traffic and overall direction can come from
any number of our other locations.
5841
So that is how we intend to set up the operation.
5842
We will also be hiring students.
I think I have explained earlier, in Calgary at the hearings, that we
have students on staff on a part‑time basis, evenings, weekends, summertimes
when they are off, and they will help as well. We will have them covering some meetings
for us.
5843
As far as looking back at the previous application where you were talking
about news, we have a large number of news directors in our organization who we
can send up here on a lend/lease basis while they are getting organized. They won't have to live here, they will
ultimately do some training and go back to where they have their main job. So we think that we can provide
excellent service in that manner.
5844
That's why we also have a relatively low expense budget and, as you know,
we also have a relatively low revenue budget, because we generally present
budgets on a very conservative basis.
5845
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
could I just go through a review.
5846
Please, do correct me if I have it wrong because we went through this
rather quickly, but I have two news people and one news
director.
5847
Is that right?
5848
MR. HILDEBRAND: Right, three
people in the newsroom.
5849
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Three
all told.
5850
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5851
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Then
I have three announcers.
5852
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5853
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Then
I have one evening operator?
5854
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5855
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: One
sales manager?
5856
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5857
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And a
flock of students.
5858
MR. HILDEBRAND: And two
other salespeople.
5859
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Oh,
and two other sales.
5860
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5861
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right.
5862
MR. HILDEBRAND: And then
there will be ‑‑
5863
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Any
number of students.
5864
MR. HILDEBRAND: And some
students and some part‑time help.
We will obviously have one person in the office.
5865
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Receptionist, sort of dogsbody.
5866
MR. HILDEBRAND: Yes. Right.
5867
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So I
have here 11, counting the receptionist, full time.
5868
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5869
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Let's
leave the students aside for now.
5870
MR. HILDEBRAND: We were
anticipating about 12 full‑time people.
5871
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Eleven or 12. What do you
reckon as a total wage figure on that?
5872
MR. HILDEBRAND: Well, in the
programming, the total wages will be $225,000, and then sales we estimate around
$150,000, and then the rest will be the administrative rounding out of our
numbers.
5873
Since we have heard during the afternoon that there may be the
opportunity to revise some of these numbers, we are happy to do that, if that is
necessary, but when we put everything together this is what we thought we could
do and we thought we could provide pretty good service with that, given the
resources that we have as a back‑up.
5874
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: There
is no criticism intended here, I am simply looking for
facts.
5875
MR. HILDEBRAND: Right. I understand.
5876
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: What
Joe Friday used to say, "Just the facts, ma'am, just
the facts."
5877
MR. HILDEBRAND: well, that's
what we are trying to give you.
5878
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So I
have $225,000 programming.
5879
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5880
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
$150,000 sales.
5881
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5882
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
what about the rest, kind of receptionist and anything else that's
around?
5883
Do you have another figure?
5884
MR. HILDEBRAND: We have
another figure of about $60,000 to round out the numbers that you see on our
application.
5885
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Yes. So that brings me
around $435K ‑‑
5886
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5887
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ plus some students and
whatnot.
5888
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5889
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Thank
you very much.
5890
You have segued beautifully into my next area because you have already
mentioned synergies and I see that there will be some in Manitoba for what you
call traffic and what I guess we used to call accounting in the old
days.
5891
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5892
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Anything else? There was
traffic and what was the other?
5893
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Creative.
5894
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Creative, sorry.
5895
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Yes.
5896
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Well,
they are very creative in Manitoba.
5897
MR. HILDEBRAND: For
sure.
5898
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
that's fine.
5899
Anything else? Any other
synergies, as we love to call them?
5900
MR. HILDEBRAND: Well, our
technical. Again, all of our
technical, who we have a large technical department, and so they are available
at any time. So we won't need to
have, again, a resident technical person on site.
5901
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: But
you can't. I mean, if you have a
real major problem, a technical problem, I mean transmitters going down, don't
you have to have someone locally that you can bring in
quickly?
5902
MR. HILDEBRAND: Oh sure, we
have, but we have technical people already in Alberta so they can get there
quickly.
5903
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
see. Okay.
5904
But they are not going to be ‑‑ there is not going to be
somebody ‑‑
5905
MR. HILDEBRAND: They are not
going to be resident. They are not
going to be resident in Fort McMurray.
5906
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right.
5907
We have had this discussion before, but to be perfectly honest it
seems to me it is a bit of a moveable feast depending on whether
you are applying in Manitoba or whether you are applying in
Saskatchewan.
5908
When you talk about the "Golden West Prairie System", are you really
talking about an approach to doing radio or are you talking about
the sort of common use people like creative, traffic and
technical?
5909
What do you mean by that term "Golden West Prairie
System"?
5910
MR. HILDEBRAND: I think, as
we explained earlier, we determined some years ago that many of the, what I call
back room activities, can easily be done in one location.
5911
For example, years ago we used to have an accounting person at every
location. We don't any more, we
have all of our accounting at one location in Manitoba. So that saves a huge number of
bodies. Or we can use that money to
hire more newspeople or more on‑air people.
5912
The same with creative. We
used to have creative people in every location where we had a radio station and
now we don't. We have a team of
creative people working out of Steinbach and they provide the creative for the
whole system.
5913
Again, we have fewer bodies that way but better creative because there is
a synergy that takes place when you have six or seven creative people in one
department as opposed to one or two.
So at the end of the day you get better sounding
creative.
5914
That kind of process we have developed throughout our culture and that is
why we have been able to provide what we call total community service radio in
communities at a cost that is less than normally would have to be
spent.
5915
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Finally on the question of kind of the bones, the structure of what will
be in Fort McMurray, you talk about bringing news directors or station managers,
I wasn't quite sure, up on a rotation.
5916
Could you just give me a little more ‑‑
5917
MR. HILDEBRAND: No. I said initially our plan is to hire
people locally.
5918
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right.
5919
MR. HILDEBRAND: And so they
obviously need training. Well, what
we have been doing for many years, we are hiring people locally so that
they can reflect the community back to the listener much better than if somebody
comes in from another community.
5920
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
understand.
5921
MR. HILDEBRAND: So we will
try to hire as many of these people as possible in
Fort McMurray.
5922
We will provide training before we go on the air, and the training part
we will likely then fly in some of our other senior news directors in other
parts of the country who can then provide the training on‑site and they can do
some overseeing.
5923
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right.
5924
MR. HILDEBRAND: So that is
how we proposed to do this and we think it will work.
5925
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
That's a transition then, too ‑‑
5926
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5927
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ having your own established body on
site.
5928
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Exactly.
5929
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. Let's go to the microphones,
then, and try to figure out what people will hear after you have launched and
settled any of the sort of running in problems out.
5930
I have the obvious which we might as well confirm. Your format chosen is an Adult
Contemporary aimed at a 25 to 50 target
demographic.
5931
Is that correct?
5932
MR. HILDEBRAND: I will turn
this part of the questioning over to Lyndon Friesen.
5933
MR. FRIESEN: Yes, 25‑54
would be correct.
5934
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Does
that narrow? Because we hear
sometimes from people saying, "Well, that's the broad demographic, but we have a
narrow one in mind as well"?
5935
MR. FRIESEN: I'm not sure
that we cut it up and do the science to that level.
5936
What we mean by a "Golden West type of service", how we cut up the music
really isn't quite as scientific from our perspective.
5937
Ken may want to elaborate more on that.
5938
We think in a market like that where there is only three or four radio
stations, to tightly cut them up and define them isn't quite our objective. Our objective is to reach a broad
cross‑section of the community and the music is really an important part but not
the whole package. So it is the
whole community and the whole local service that we provide much beyond the
music.
5939
So while it is a mainstream, very popular style of music, that is our
objective, is to actually cut it quite wide, especially where there is so
few...
5940
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You
have used the word "blend" and you used that word in your written submissions as
well. Can you help me with
that?
5941
What are you "blending"?
5942
MR. FRIESEN: I think what we
mean in the blend is a Golden West radio station, you know we have enough
examples right next to Calgary for instance, we have Okotoks. Well, the only thing that sets us apart
in that community, there are so many formats and there are so many signals, that
if we were going to live just on the music portion, if that was going to be how
we made our living ‑‑ we make our living on providing community service and
that includes music that reflects what we think is a general, a broad cross
section, to cut the widest swath, but add other services to it, especially in
the area of community service.
5943
We hire local. It's a really
important part that Elmer mentioned.
You know, when we hire local people they are already involved in the
community, they bring so much to what we do, and that reflects, then, in the
news side and the local information.
Where we live, we have to do ‑‑ that's the only thing we have is
that whole local process.
5944
I'm not sure if I'm answering your question ‑‑
5945
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: No,
you are not.
5946
MR. FRIESEN: ‑‑ from a music perspective.
5947
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: But
it's interesting. I mean, I'm
interested in hearing you.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5948
MR. FRIESEN: But that's what
we mean by ‑‑ so the blend is the whole package. That's what we mean by
"blend".
5949
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
That's what you mean by blend.
So you are not talking about a blend of formats in some
way?
5950
MR. FRIESEN:
No.
5951
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
it's a pure Adult Contemporary ‑‑
5952
MR. FRIESEN:
Yes.
5953
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ format and the blend is the
extra?
5954
MR. FRIESEN: Is the whole
package that we present on‑air.
5955
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: We
will get to that package in a second, but I wonder if you could help me with the
Adult Contemporary because we have some others and I assume you would have read
some of their information.
5956
Can you distinguish yourselves from, say ‑‑ what else do we
have? We have Harvard, we have
Radio CJVR and we have Golden West, three saying ‑‑
5957
MR. FRIESEN: Saying
AC.
5958
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ we are doing Adult
Contemporary.
5959
Do you feel, having read them, you are doing exactly the same thing or
there are some differences?
5960
MR. FRIESEN: You know, I
think from reading them they will all be much the same. Sure, there will be different
nuances. I think we want to have
some focus on the Maritime influence, and I think you have had other on the
Classic Hits side tell you the same thing.
5961
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right.
5962
MR. FRIESEN: You know, I
think they won't be that much different.
AC is AC, you know, especially in small communities like that where you
don't have all of the other radio stations, you don't get quite as narrow. So we just want to do it in a way that
will cut the widest ‑‑ or get the widest possible audience from an AC
side.
5963
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: With
the incumbent, the two OK stations that are there, is there going to be any
overlap with what you are hearing there?
You must have listened to them for a while to see what was in the
market?
5964
MR. FRIESEN: No. I don't think ‑‑ on the country
side there is very little to crossover.
5965
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: No, I
wouldn't think. But what about the
others?
5966
MR. FRIESEN: You know, I
don't think so. Of course some
artists are crossing over and some songs are being played on every ‑‑
but very little of that.
5967
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Yes. When you see Pavarotti
and Sting together anything is possible, but very little is your thought. Right.
5968
Then the basics, the 40 percent Cancon that you indicated you would
deliver.
5969
Is that still on the cards for you as far as you are concerned and would
you be willing to include in that general commitment the notion of it applying
from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Monday to Friday as well?
5970
MR. FRIESEN: For
sure.
5971
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You
would commit to that as a COL if necessary?
5972
MR. FRIESEN: All right. Let's go to spoken
word.
5973
You have handed me a handwritten sheet today. For the benefit of those who may not
have seen it in the audience and I know are just holding their breath, it
says:
"Meet me around the corner, I have a
bag of money for you."
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
5974
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: No,
it says:
"Spoken word
weekly:
News and sports reports,
7.5 hours per week;
surveillance, weather, traffic,
4.2 hours per week;
announcer talk, 6.3 hours per
week".
5975
Signed "Golden West".
5976
So let's start with your list.
Seven and a half hours total.
I did see your breakdown in a number of places as to when you would play
that, so that's clear on the record.
5977
But what I'm not clear on is kind of what the average newscast will look
like in terms of length and what will be in it.
5978
MR. HILDEBRAND: The average
newscast will be three minutes long and then we anticipate to have an additional
minute to minute and a half of sports that would go about 10 times a day, and
then we would have weather which would run throughout the whole 18‑hour cycle
and that would be another two minutes an hour. So those numbers add up to the 18 hours
of spoken word.
5979
I think it is very important to underline here what is in those newscasts
and what's in those reports is as important as the length. So I know during the course of the last
two days there has been a lot of questions about how many hours of spoken word
or how many times a day will you be speaking and the length of
newscasts.
5980
I think it's as important, and maybe more important, at least from our
perspective, that the newscast in our case will be full of local material, so by
and large, as you already heard, all of our news will be local, with the
exception of maybe 5 percent which will cover national/international. But we have made our living on local so
that is what we will do in Fort McMurray as well.
5981
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Okay. You have been clear on
that. And I guess the weather will
be local.
5982
MR. HILDEBRAND: It for sure
will be local.
5983
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I'm
teasing you.
5984
MR. HILDEBRAND: And the
sports.
5985
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
the sports?
5986
MR. HILDEBRAND: Well, except
the Stanley Cup playoffs, when they are on.
5987
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And
when the Oilers win I suppose. You
will just ignore it the rest of the time.
5988
How many of these newscasts, you know, three minutes a pop to get up to
7.5 hours? I suppose I could do the
math on that, but can you just give me a notion of how many a week, of how many
a day?
5989
MR. HILDEBRAND: A day, there
will be 14 a day from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Sixteen, sorry.
5990
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Sixteen?
5991
MR. HILDEBRAND: Sixteen a
day, yes.
5992
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Because in your written submissions you have that you are going to have
news hourly from 6:00 to 10:00 a.m. then nothing at 11:00, then 12:00 to 2:00,
then nothing at 3:00 then 4:00 to 6:00.
5993
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5994
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Is
that still the plan?
5995
MR. HILDEBRAND: That's still
the plan and the plan is now maybe to have also a couple of more in the
morning. We are thinking we should
have another one at 6:30 and at 8:30 in the morning.
5996
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So we
are going to add 6:30 and 8:30.
5997
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
5998
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Anything later in the evening?
No changes there?
5999
MR. HILDEBRAND: No, we
would ‑‑ the weather would continue throughout the
evening.
6000
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right. I will leave
it.
6001
MR. HILDEBRAND: And again,
if there are specific events that take place in the community that would require
coverage, we would use that as well.
But during our normal process that would be our
schedule.
6002
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Because I have here "there will also be news and sports updates at 7:30,
12:30 and 5:30.
6003
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
6004
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: But I
don't know whether that's a.m. or p.m.
I assume that's ‑‑
6005
MR. HILDEBRAND: Well,
no. It's 7:30 in the morning, 12:30
at noon, 5:30 in the afternoon.
6006
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. So
then ‑‑
6007
MR. HILDEBRAND: That's part
of that whole ‑‑
6008
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right. You have also added
6:30 and 8:30 here as well.
6009
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
6010
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. I think that's pretty
clear.
6011
Now, the rest of your spoken word is announcer talk. Nothing else? I mean, no spoken word programs of any
sort? You seem to have almost an
obsession, I would say a constructive obsession with local, but no local affairs
programs, no half hour weekly program on what is going on around town or the
schools or anything like that?
6012
MR. HILDEBRAND: Those will
probably develop as we go, but these are minimums that we put down here. In many cases there will be more, but we
expect that you want the minimums of what we are prepared to do and this is what
we would do.
6013
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. So when you
talk ‑‑
6014
MR. HILDEBRAND: The other
thing that I think is important and I would like Lyndon to elaborate on, we will
also establish a community portal, it's an internet business that we have
developed in our other communities, where all of the local news that we create
for the broadcast cycle will also be available there 24 hours a
day.
6015
Lyndon, maybe you could elaborate on that a bit.
6016
MR. FRIESEN: I don't
know. All of the information that
we ‑‑ all of our intensity, all of our energy, everything we do goes to
gathering local information. That's
what we think creates the brand in these small communities. I gave the example of Okotoks before
where it's not Calgary, but it's right there. So we have had to develop a uniqueness
to these areas. So the only thing
we have is local.
6017
So what we have done, I guess to our surprise initially, was the
acceptance of the online portion.
Everything we do, all the information we gather, we really recycle to a
community portal where we let the whole community get involved in what we do on
the radio and the amount of activity and the reliance. So we duplicate, we recycle what we
gather from a local perspective and put it all onto our website so we are
covering kind of the other side of the growing technology
future.
6018
And the activity on these onlines just blows us away and so we have also
created a business around that and we are actually proposing ‑‑ or we would
actually establish the same kind of thing for Fort
McMurray.
6019
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
see.
6020
If you don't mind, I think it's interesting how this has changed. You are not the first applicant that is
talking about how you are working on different technical levels
simultaneously.
6021
But when you talk about an answer talk ‑‑ and I'm not going to take
you through every minute of every day, but can you give me an idea of what would
elevate, in a sense, happy talk, just normal healthy chatter of an
announcer or perhaps between an announcer and a sports broadcaster, or whatever,
to the level where, you know, we would count it as kind of serious local
reflection, some sort of serious local spoken word? Not serious in the sense of glum, but
something that you can count on, that you know certain elements of the community
are going to be reflected, not just "What did you do on the weekend" sort of
thing?
6022
MR. FRIESEN: You know, I
heard earlier people talking about quotas for local news and local
news‑gathering. That's all we
do.
6023
An example of that would be in the morning show. We have probably four or five breaks per
hour where the announcer gets time to actually chat.
6024
We have some real kind of policy or training where we ask all of our
people that every break we actually communicate with or only about the
community. Sure, if the Stanley Cup
is on or if the Prime Minister is in town, I mean there are other issues, but we
do bring people on‑air. We have
certain ways ‑‑ I guess policy is the best word ‑‑ where we ask our
people to actually interview local people all the time. So it is a really community involved
active, so it's all about the local community. I think that is what we are just trying
to say.
6025
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Just
for fun, let's just do 7:00 to 7:30 for example. You have the news at 7:00, and the news,
the sports, the weather, so we are sort of 7:05. Would you play music then until, say,
7:15 or something and then break to one of these kind of local reflective
interviews?
6026
Or how would that work?
6027
MR. FRIESEN: First of all, I
work for Elmer so we are going to run a few commercials, quite a
few.
6028
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Were
you not here when the students ‑‑ we agreed we are not having any more
commercials.
6029
MR. FRIESEN: So we are going
to start with commercials.
6030
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You
have to do something for the next generation here.
6031
MR. FRIESEN: In the morning
show, if you are talking about 7:00 a.m.
6032
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
am.
6033
MR. FRIESEN: I don't know,
we might play two maybe three songs in a row, but then the announcer has a bit
in between where we actually invite ‑‑ we actually organize and prepare to
have guests in that talk about local community events, local community
activities, local community celebrities.
6034
You know, if there is an item ‑‑ everything is interactive and we
really try to get the community involved.
It's not about what our announcers are saying, it is about the kind of
conversations they are having with local people. That is how we try to style it and
that's where that would happen.
6035
MR. HILDEBRAND: I think in
some instances you get ‑‑ and we could have listed different community
events, billboards, community billboards, all of those things, but we integrate
them into the program schedule on an ongoing basis. Rather than just have them once in the
morning, we actually use what is happening through the day part. So that we want to be relevant
throughout the day part that way.
6036
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
when you bring in this guest, would it be typically
someone ‑‑
6037
MR. HILDEBRAND: They
wouldn't come into the studio. You
do all of this on the phone ‑‑
6038
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: It's
all done on the phone.
6039
MR. HILDEBRAND: ‑‑ the day before in a clip. So that's how you get them
involved.
6040
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. So that's canned in the
sense that you have it ready to go.
6041
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
6042
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: There
is no doubt it is going to happen.
6043
MR. HILDEBRAND: That's
right.
6044
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: There
is a certainty.
6045
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Yes.
6046
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And
you reckon from your experience in other stations we are looking at six hours or
six and a third hours a week ‑‑
6047
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
6048
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ just in this type of
element.
6049
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right
6050
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Serious stuff in other words.
I mean relevant stuff, it's not just chatter.
6051
MR. HILDEBRAND: More than
just saying "That was" and "This
will be".
6052
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Yes.
Right.
6053
I think that certainly clears it up for
me.
6054
The only other element that I would like to ask you about under spoken
word would be religious content, because I know you do have some of that in some
of your stations.
6055
Are you planning to have any kind of religious programming at all on this
station?
6056
MR. HILDEBRAND:
No.
6057
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: None
at all.
6058
Is that ever subject to change, or when you make a determination
like that, this station is going to run basically the way you are saying it's
running?
6059
Is that the kind of thing where two years from now you might change and
bring in some religious programming?
6060
MR. HILDEBRAND: No. It is not our plan to do that,
no.
6061
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. I didn't know, because I
don't know how you brought it in on your other stations, whether it was brought
in as an experiment or whether it was in the cards right from the
beginning.
6062
MR. HILDEBRAND: It was in
the cards from the beginning.
6063
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. I think that covers what we
will hear.
6064
I do want to, though, ask the same kind of questions that my colleagues
have asked. We have all tried to
phrase this in a way ‑‑ we are struggling with it ourselves, so bear with
us.
6065
But it occurs to us that this is such a demanding market in the sense of,
you know, meeting the wage competitive agenda there, the price of real estate,
just the sheer cost of getting this thing up and running and keeping it running
in an economy that is booming so hard and has inflationary tendencies. It just seems to be there is just no
doubt about it.
6066
As I say, you mentioned average salaries going back five years as being
over $90,000 and we have heard on the record that the Mayor of
Fort McMurray is basically saying "Could we call a halt for a
while? Could we have a pause? I can't catch my
breath."
6067
So it leads us to believe that we may have to look at this licensing
slightly differently than we normally do.
I think you have heard my colleagues, Mr. Arpin, Mr. Williams, speak
about this already, the format may not be as big an element as it would have
been, that one of the major elements is the ability of a broadcaster to compete
and to stay alive, one, in an incredibly expensive market and, two, against an obstacle of a well‑entrenched
professional two‑station competitor.
6068
Can you just give me some idea of how you respond to those sorts of
challenges?
6069
MR. HILDEBRAND: Well, first
of all, we don't need a large slice of the audience in a market like this. We will need a relatively small audience
and we will continue to mine that audience and grow our business brick by
brick. So we go at this relatively
conservatively and we have found that if we stick to our knitting and keep our
nose to the grindstone, the audience, if we provide the community of service
that we know we can do, we know that there will be listeners, and with those
listeners we can then build a business and we are confident that we can do
that here too.
6070
We are not going to impact the incumbents, as I said in our
application. They won't know we are
here because there is enough business to go around.
6071
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: First
of all, when you say we don't need a big slice of the market, what is the
minimum in your mind. You have done
your homework here, what is the minimum you need to meet the kind of figures you
have spoken about in your projection?
6072
MR. HILDEBRAND: First of
all, I would like Ken Goldstein to talk a little bit about the size of the
market, because he has done some work on this.
6073
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: All
right. Thank
you.
6074
MR. GOLDSTEIN: This is one
of the most interesting markets to analyze, because at every level the market is
growing so fast that it is hard statistics to keep up with the growth. If you look at the retail trade levels
for example ‑‑
6075
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I'm
sorry, I want to be able to hear you.
6076
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I hope it
wasn't anything that I said.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
6077
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: No,
it was strictly the water.
6078
MR. GOLDSTEIN: What I was
going to say, if you look at some of the published data for retail trade, some
of the applicants have used some of these data, and you find ranges for example
of about $250 million, when in fact we know because we were able to access
the Statistics Canada small area database, that it was more like $750
million. So the statistics are slow
to catch up with the reality in this market.
6079
You have a situation there where the station that is contemplated in this
application can ‑‑ by the way, I should just add that we are looking in
2006 at $900 million in retail sales in this market.
6080
You are looking at the kind of growth and the kind of capacity that a
station like this one, which does build in increments, can come into a market
that is growing like this, and partly through riding the wave and party through
its own efforts be integrated into the market without disruption. And I think that's
important.
6081
I think that the format ‑‑ I agree with you, I don't think the
format per se is as important as it might be somewhere else. I think the Commission is now moving
into an interesting zone in terms of its licensing.
6082
We have had format finding in large markets which is kind of dedicated to
narrow kinds of segmentation, and now we are looking at format finding in
markets that are becoming more valuable because of growth and because of the
extraordinary circumstance in a Fort McMurray where there still won't be a dozen
stations or 22 stations. So you
don't need to get the fine segmentation, you need to get reasonable
segmentation.
6083
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Does
all of what you have just said hold true if we license, say, two commercial
stations plus, say, one of the Christian stations, to give you a
scenario?
6084
MR. GOLDSTEIN: I think that
this station plus another is a very reasonable
proposition.
6085
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And
the information you have given us, the projections still hold
true?
6086
I assume you did them on one licence only, but this market is pretty
healthy.
6087
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Yes, I think
so. As a matter of fact, if you go
back or our work I would revise our projection for the market upward now, even
from a year ago. It's just one of
those cases where you don't have a lot ‑‑ the market hasn't been big enough
to generate a lot of numbers for a length of time so you don't have that kind of
historic set of relationships. So I
think the answer is yes.
6088
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: And
Mr. Friesen said early that your Adult Contemporary, Harvard's Adult
Contemporary are pretty much the same thing. What if for reasons of business
planning, deep pockets, whatever, we were to just skate format right off the
ice, say we are just not going to look at it because, as you say, there are so
few players, and simply say to you, hypothetically, "We are licensing you and
Harvard." What would you do with
format, just find another one, simple as that, or launch
first?
6089
MR. HILDEBRAND: Well,
probably if both of us were licensed both would have to take a look at some
modifications. Certainly we would
be happy to do that.
6090
Getting back to your earlier question about what kind of slice we would
need, we operate in a lot of communities that are 10,000 or smaller and so by
the time we would get on the air, given that by the time the Commission reaches
a decision, will likely be sometime later this year, early next year, so we are
looking at late 2007, early 2008.
It's likely by that time there will be 90,000 people in the area. If we had 15 percent of that we could
make a business.
6091
So we are not looking for a large slice.
6092
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: You
are not trying to tempt us to license three, are you?
6093
MR. HILDEBRAND: Well, you
know, sooner or later somebody is going to ask that question ‑‑ maybe you
are now ‑‑ you know, how many stations should you
license?
6094
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
think that's what I just asked.
6095
MR. HILDEBRAND: All
right. So if you license them all I
think that is over licensing so I think it should be less than all. So if you license us and another one,
that would be fine. As long as we
are one of the ones you are licensing, we are happy.
6096
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Leaving aside the small, specialty niche players, but if we take into
consideration your speculation that by the time launch times comes, the decision
is written, launch time, rent space, get your antenna, all of that, we may be
looking at 90,000 people.
6097
MR. HILDEBRAND: Plus,
yes.
6098
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: Is it
out of the way, then, to say, "Well, let's open this up a little." You know, because the other side of this
is to give consumers what they want, which is choice.
6099
MR. HILDEBRAND: Well, but I
think you ‑‑
6100
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
could we say we could do three?
Do you think it could support three at that
point?
6101
MR. HILDEBRAND: I don't know
that, but certainly if you license two plus the lower power and the specialty
one, you would have like four new players in the market. So that would already provide a lot of
diversity.
6102
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: It
would, yes.
6103
MR. HILDEBRAND: Considering
now there is two.
6104
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD:
Right.
6105
MR. HILDEBRAND: So that's a
quantum leap.
6106
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: So
probably stick with two at your level ‑‑
6107
MR. HILDEBRAND: I would
think, yes.
6108
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: ‑‑ the Vista level, the Harvard
level?
6109
COMMISSIONER LANGFORD: I
think those are all my questions, Mr. Chairman.
6110
Thank you very much, gentlemen.
6111
MR. HILDEBRAND: Thank
you.
6112
THE CHAIRPERSON:
Commissioner Cram...?
6113
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you, Mr. Chair.
6114
I just have two questions and I'm sure you are ready for this
one.
6115
How much of your programming would be live‑to‑air?
6116
MR. FRIESEN: Yes, we did
anticipate that question, but I wanted to also make a comment before I
answer.
6117
That one of the greatest sources of pride I think for most of us,
whenever there is a broadcaster in my car and we drive around, one of
the first questions they ask is, "Is that voice‑tracked?" So if you do it well, as I think all the
broadcasters in this room do, you likely won't notice. Although the concern is when it's
raining outside and we call it sunny.
6118
At our place, and certainly within our environment, we have people in our
buildings from at least 5:00 a.m. until 11:00 p.m. So even if we are voice‑tracked, and
when we are voice‑tracked, we make sure that somebody is assigned to that all
the time and there are people in the building.
6119
So whenever there is, let's say, severe weather watches or warnings for
environmental, Environment Canada, we have a full system set up where we
get ‑‑ actually where we have designated on‑call staff who have cellular
phones programmed to receive text warnings so we can get that
organized.
6120
So we are very covered off on the whole staffing. There is somebody in the radio stations
seven days a week, so we don't just leave it on autopilot, that's
it.
6121
We plan to have a live morning show from 6:00 a.m. until 9:00 or 10:00,
and then we for sure would have a drive show between 3:00 and 7:00 that would be
live, and then whenever there is community events or community activities, or
anything that is going on, we also do that on ‑‑ we are also live on
Saturday morning and Sunday morning and much of the rest of the time is
voice‑tracked.
6122
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Saturday
morning from...?
6123
MR. FRIESEN: Saturday
morning we usually start a little later, we go from 7:00 until about 10:00 with
a live show.
6124
COMMISSIONER CRAM: And
Sunday about the same?
6125
MR. FRIESEN: About the
same.
6126
COMMISSIONER CRAM: what does
the evening operator do?
6127
MR. FRIESEN: The evening
operators at our place do a lot of preparation in terms of news gathering. We have a lot of our staff and part‑time
staff and stringers gathering information out in the community in the evening
and somebody in the evening there has to coordinate that, whether that is
sporting activity information and scores coming in, whether it's local news
people at meetings filing stories so we can get it both on‑the‑air and
online. An operator basically
operates those activities to make sure that what we are gathering gets to
there.
6128
COMMISSIONER CRAM: The news
that is not during the live‑to‑air times ‑‑ I'm looking at the noon hour,
the 1:00, the 2:00 ‑‑ that's live?
6129
MR. FRIESEN: That is going
to be live. That is live,
yes.
6130
COMMISSIONER CRAM:
Mr. Hildebrand, you can tell me you don't want to answer this or
you can answer it, I'm curious as to ‑‑ and my colleague
Mr. Williams was discussing it before ‑‑ that the Grande Prairie
market appears to be larger. I'm
curious as to your decision to apply here and
not there.
6131
MR. HILDEBRAND: I should
answer that maybe this way, that I was sleeping that day.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
6132
COMMISSIONER CRAM: Thank
you, Mr. Hildebrand. Nice to
know you are awake today.
‑‑‑ Laughter /
Rires
6133
THE CHAIRPERSON: Commissioner
WilliamS...?
6134
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr.
Hildebrand, you have been described by some as a small market specialist in the
broadcasting industry.
6135
Would that be a fair comment?
6136
MR. HILDEBRAND: I think so,
yes.
6137
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What
is the largest market you currently serve?
6138
MR. HILDEBRAND: Golden West
currently is in Moose Jaw, which is the largest station in our group of stations
across the prairies.
6139
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm
not familiar with Moose Jaw, forgive me.
How would that compare to Fort McMurray?
6140
MR. HILDEBRAND: Moose Jaw
has about 35,000 people.
6141
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So
similar, then.
6142
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
6143
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How
many employees does Golden West currently have?
6144
MR. HILDEBRAND: About
350.
6145
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
Okay. So you are not as
small as it seems then. You are a
big small operator with 300 employees?
6146
MR. HILDEBRAND: We are in a
lot of little places.
6147
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So do
you think you would be able to operate Fort McMurray in the same manner, like
using your Altona and Steinbach facility as the core of your
company?
6148
MR. HILDEBRAND: Well, I
think I should make a comment here.
6149
In addition to the Golden West Group of stations I also have three
stations in Saskatoon which is considerably larger than the market we are
looking at here, and so I have another 55 or so employees
there.
6150
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So
350‑some employees and some stations larger than this and
many smaller.
6151
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Right.
6152
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are
those Saskatoon stations operated as standalone or are they also using the
facilities in Steinbach and Altona?
6153
MR. HILDEBRAND: No, they are
standalone.
6154
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All
right. So will you be able to
operate, or do you plan to operate Fort McMurray in the same manner as your
smaller stations or like your Saskatoon?
6155
MR. HILDEBRAND: Yes, it
would be operated along the lines of stations that we have in High
River, Okotoks, Swift Current, Moose Jaw, Steinbach.
6156
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Et
cetera, et cetera. Okay. Thank you very
much.
6157
Those are my questions, Mr. Chair.
6158
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr.
Hildebrand, in your oral presentation you talk about that you were ‑‑ I am
referring back to your page 5, second paragraph, where you
say:
"Since a large percentage of people
working in the area are from Newfoundland, we will take that into account when
doing Canadian news stories. We
will also plan to have a regular ... program specifically for
Newfoundlanders.
6159
Where will I find that in your
application?
6160
MR. HILDEBRAND: That
specifically is not in the application.
6161
THE CHAIRPERSON: But it is a
commitment that you make today ‑‑
6162
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Yes.
6163
THE CHAIRPERSON: ‑‑ to do some specific programming for
Newfoundlanders.
6164
MR. HILDEBRAND:
Yes.
6165
THE CHAIRPERSON: How long
will that program be or will it be ‑‑
6166
MR. HILDEBRAND: We were
thinking of a two‑hour program.
6167
THE CHAIRPERSON: A two‑hour
program?
6168
MR. HILDEBRAND: A two‑hour
program Saturday night, with we would repeat that Sunday
night.
6169
THE CHAIRPERSON: I see. Thank you for that
information.
6170
We have also asked all those who appear here to be much more specific in
the demographic that they were aiming at. We asked them if they think their
programming will skew more male or more female and also what will be the median
age of their listeners.
6171
Could you give us an indication of what you think you are going to be
aiming at?
6172
MR. HILDEBRAND: Yes. As Mr. Friesen said, we are aiming
at a fairly broad swath. We can
certainly give you a number, but I'm sure like everyone else that will likely be
a guess.
6173
THE CHAIRPERSON: For
sure.
6174
MR. HILDEBRAND: So it would
be probably 38 to 42, in that range.
6175
I think maybe Mr. Goldstein wants to add some of the information he
gathered on what the demographic actually is. I think there is a misconception that
there are dramatically more men in Fort McMurray than women and his study showed
that was not the case.
6176
Ken...?
6177
MR. GOLDSTEIN: Just very,
very briefly. There are more males
than females, but it's a family city.
You remember the statistics are influenced by about 10,000 males in
work ‑‑ well, primarily males in work areas, and it seems to me that the
format chosen here, and the general approach chosen here, which would be tilting
somewhat more towards a female audience, nicely adds to the diversity in the
market in a demographic sense.
6178
THE CHAIRPERSON: Legal
counsel, do you have any questions?
6179
MS MURPHY: No
questions. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
6180
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you
very much.
6181
Mr. Hildebrand, I am giving you a couple of minutes to tell us why the
Commission should grant you a licence to serve Fort
McMurray.
6182
MR. HILDEBRAND: Thank
you.
6183
We are a Western Canadian company and have demonstrated over the years
that we can provide a unique local service to the
community.
6184
We can make a significant impact in the communities we are licensed to
serve and will do that in Fort McMurray as well.
6185
We have the experience, the resources and the desire to compete and
operate in smaller markets.
6186
We will complement the incumbents and any new licences that you will
issue for Fort McMurray.
6187
In addition to a unique local service we will provide, we are also at the
upper limit as far as Canadian Talent Development contributions are concerned
considering all of the applicants that you are considering for Fort
McMurray.
6188
And the Commission knows we will do a good job for Fort
McMurray.
6189
We thank you for your attention and say goodnight. You have worked long and hard. Enjoy the evening.
6190
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you,
Mr. Hildebrand. Thank you to
your team.
6191
This is the last item for today.
6192
We will resume tomorrow morning at 8:30 to hear the application of
Harvard Broadcasting.
6193
Good evening, everyone.
6194
MR. HILDEBRAND: Thank
you.
‑‑‑ Whereupon the hearing adjourned
at 1821, to resume
on Thursday, June 22, 2006
at 0830 / L'audience
est ajournée à 1821, pour
reprendre le jeudi
22 juin 2006 à
0830
REPORTERS
______________________
______________________
Richard Johansson
Lynda Johansson
______________________
______________________
Jean Desaulniers
Fiona Potvin