36th Parliament, 1st Session
EDITED HANSARD • NUMBER 229
CONTENTS
Friday, May 14, 1999
| GOVERNMENT ORDERS
|
1005
| CRIMINAL RECORDS ACT
|
| Bill C-69. Report stage
|
| Motion for concurrence
|
| Hon. Fred Mifflin |
| Third reading
|
| Hon. Fred Mifflin |
| Mr. Jacques Saada |
1010
1015
1020
1025
| Mr. Eric Lowther |
1030
1035
| Mrs. Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral |
1040
| Mr. Pat Martin |
1045
| Mr. Peter MacKay |
1050
1055
| STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS
|
| WORKPLACE SAFETY
|
| Mr. George Proud |
| PENTICTON AIRPORT
|
| Mr. Jim Hart |
1100
| WORLD TELECOMMUNICATIONS DAY
|
| Mr. David Pratt |
| CANADIAN TULIP FESTIVAL
|
| Mr. Mac Harb |
| MARNIE PAIKIN
|
| Ms. Paddy Torsney |
| ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE
|
| Mr. Chuck Cadman |
| INTERNATIONAL MUSEUMS DAY
|
| Mr. Mauril Bélanger |
1105
| AGROLOGISTS
|
| Ms. Hélène Alarie |
| STONEY CREEK CITIZENS OF THE YEAR
|
| Mr. Tony Valeri |
| RIGHT HON. JOHN GEORGE DIEFENBAKER
|
| Mr. Derrek Konrad |
| ECOACTION PROGRAM
|
| Mr. Mark Assad |
| SHIPBUILDING INDUSTRY
|
| Mr. Gordon Earle |
1110
| NORTH SHORE HIGHWAY ACCIDENT
|
| Mr. Ghislain Fournier |
| FONDATION PAUL-GÉRIN-LAJOIE
|
| Mr. Robert Bertrand |
| CANADA MILLENNIUM PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM
|
| Mr. Norman Doyle |
| INTERNATIONAL DAY OF FAMILIES
|
| Ms. Eleni Bakopanos |
| SHARED PARENTING
|
| Mr. Jay Hill |
1115
| GÉRALD LAROSE
|
| Mr. René Laurin |
| ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
|
| SUPREME COURT OF CANADA
|
| Mr. Chuck Strahl |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| Mr. Chuck Strahl |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| Mr. Chuck Strahl |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
1120
| Mr. Eric Lowther |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| Mr. Eric Lowther |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| MINISTER OF HUMAN RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT
|
| Mr. Stéphane Bergeron |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| Mr. Stéphane Bergeron |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
1125
| Mrs. Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| Mrs. Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| IMMIGRATION
|
| Ms. Alexa McDonough |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| Ms. Alexa McDonough |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| AIRBUS
|
| Mr. Peter MacKay |
1130
| Mr. Jacques Saada |
| Mr. Peter MacKay |
| Mr. Jacques Saada |
| NATIONAL DEFENCE
|
| Mr. Gary Lunn |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| APEC SUMMIT
|
| Mr. John Reynolds |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| MARIJUANA
|
| Mr. Bernard Bigras |
1135
| Hon. Allan Rock |
| Mr. Bernard Bigras |
| Hon. Allan Rock |
| TAXATION
|
| Mr. Gerry Ritz |
| Hon. Jim Peterson |
| Mr. Jason Kenney |
| Hon. Jim Peterson |
| LABELLING REGULATIONS
|
| Ms. Hélène Alarie |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| Ms. Hélène Alarie |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| THE ENVIRONMENT
|
| Mr. Grant McNally |
1140
| Ms. Paddy Torsney |
| Mr. Bill Gilmour |
| Ms. Paddy Torsney |
| THE CONFERENCE OF PARLIAMENTARIANS FROM THE AMERICAS
|
| Hon. Don Boudria |
| NATIONAL CHILD BENEFIT
|
| Ms. Aileen Carroll |
| Ms. Bonnie Brown |
| GRAIN TRANSPORTATION
|
| Mr. Jake E. Hoeppner |
1145
| Mr. Stan Dromisky |
| Mr. Howard Hilstrom |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| AGRICULTURE
|
| Mr. Rick Laliberte |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| Hon. Lorne Nystrom |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| HEALTH CARE
|
| Mr. Charlie Power |
1150
| Hon. Allan Rock |
| Mr. Charlie Power |
| Hon. Allan Rock |
| PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES
|
| Ms. Sophia Leung |
| Hon. Ronald J. Duhamel |
| IMMIGRATION
|
| Mr. Deepak Obhrai |
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| MIRABEL AIRPORT
|
| Mr. Paul Mercier |
1155
| Hon. Harbance Singh Dhaliwal |
| PENSIONS
|
| Mr. Pat Martin |
| Hon. Allan Rock |
| AGRICULTURE
|
| Mr. Scott Brison |
| Hon. Lyle Vanclief |
| WOMEN ENTREPRENEURS
|
| Mrs. Nancy Karetak-Lindell |
| Hon. Hedy Fry |
| NATIONAL DEFENCE
|
| Mr. Jay Hill |
1200
| Hon. Herb Gray |
| JACQUES DUCHESNEAU
|
| Mr. Réal Ménard |
| Mr. Jacques Saada |
| FISHERIES AND OCEANS
|
| Mr. Peter Stoffer |
| Mr. Wayne Easter |
| ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
|
| SIERRA LEONE
|
| Hon. Lloyd Axworthy |
| GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO PETITIONS
|
| Mr. Peter Adams |
| COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
|
| Finance
|
| Mr. Maurizio Bevilacqua |
1205
| Citizenship and Immigration
|
| Mr. Rey D. Pagtakhan |
| PETITIONS
|
| Divorce Act
|
| Mr. Maurizio Bevilacqua |
| Rights of Grandparents
|
| Mr. Mac Harb |
| Impaired Driving
|
| Mr. Peter Adams |
| QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER
|
| Mr. Peter Adams |
| GOVERNMENT ORDERS
|
| CRIMINAL RECORDS ACT
|
| Bill C-69. Third reading
|
| Mr. Peter MacKay |
1210
1215
1220
| CARRIAGE BY AIR ACT
|
| Bill S-23. Second reading
|
| Hon. Stéphane Dion |
| Mr. Stan Dromisky |
1225
| Mr. Bill Gilmour |
1230
1235
1240
| Hon. Lorne Nystrom |
1245
| Mr. Jay Hill |
1250
| Mr. Rick Laliberte |
1255
1300
| Mr. Charlie Power |
1305
| Appendix
|
(Official Version)
EDITED HANSARD • NUMBER 229
HOUSE OF COMMONS
Friday, May 14, 1999
The House met at 10 a.m.
Prayers
GOVERNMENT ORDERS
1005
[English]
CRIMINAL RECORDS ACT
The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill C-69, an act to
amend the Criminal Records Act and to amend another act in
consequence, as reported (with amendment) from the committee.
Hon. Fred Mifflin (for the Solicitor General of Canada) moved
that the bill be concurred in.
(Motion agreed to)
Hon. Fred Mifflin (for the Solicitor General of Canada) moved
that the bill be read the third time and passed.
[Translation]
Mr. Jacques Saada (Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General
of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am extremely honoured to rise
to speak to the merits of Bill C-69, an act to amend the Criminal
Records Act.
This is an extremely important bill, dealing as it does with
improving the safety of our children and other vulnerable
people. This is an objective shared by all parties, as was
amply demonstrated during debate and in committee.
I would like to begin by complimenting my colleagues sitting
opposite on the spirit of co-operation that clearly demonstrates
the extent and depth of our shared commitment.
With the co-operation and advice of the other parties, this bill,
as amended, is even stronger than it was when first tabled.
In particular, I am pleased to acknowledge the initiative taken
by my hon. friend from Calgary Centre to introduce his own
private member's bill on this same matter.
With his co-operation we have been able to ensure that the
principles of his Bill C-284 are captured within Bill C-69 so that
we can proceed expeditiously with this single proposal.
1010
The central objective of the bill will be achieved by a process
that it is outlined in clause 6. It will allow a flag to be
placed in the criminal records system when a sex offender is
granted a pardon and that record is sealed. This will help
ensure that such records are identified and can be disclosed by
the solicitor general for screening purposes.
As hon. members will know, the Criminal Records Act establishes
a system to offer pardons to former offenders who have
demonstrated a return to a law-abiding life.
It is designed to both recognize that return to good conduct and
to encourage continued positive adjustment by removing the
stigma and barriers to normal social participation created by a
criminal record. Under that act, offenders can have their
records sealed by obtaining a pardon from the National Parole
Board.
I should point out that this does not expunge the conviction nor
does it erase the record. The conviction is a matter of
historical fact and the criminal record can be unsealed on the
authority of the solicitor general if that is required in the
interests of the administration of justice or national security.
Pardons are granted only when it has been demonstrated that
crime free conduct has been resumed.
In the case of summary conviction offences, this requires a
three-year crime free period after completion of any and all
sentences. In the case of more serious indictable offences, the
waiting period is five years. Before a pardon is received,
police are consulted in every community where pardon applicants
have lived during the past five years.
The rate of success in obtaining pardons by applicants is quite
high, well over 90%, but this does not reflect any lack of
diligence in considering pardon applications. Rather, it
indicates that the vast majority of applicants qualify for a
pardon, whereas those who would obviously not qualify are
deterred from applying when they see the thoroughness of the
application information they must provide, including
fingerprints.
The vast majority of pardon recipients are law abiding at the
time of being pardoned. In fact, most pardon requests arise
precisely because the applicants have returned to a stable
law-abiding life.
As most hon. members will know from the inquiries they receive
from their constituents, the most common reason for seeking a
pardon is for purposes of employment and travel outside of the
country. Moreover, and perhaps most important, the vast
majority of pardon recipients remain law abiding.
During the past 28 years, nearly a quarter of a million pardons
have been granted and of these, just over 6,000 have been
revoked for a new offence. This is a “success rate” of over
97%.
Now, I hasten to note that Bill C-69 deals primarily with sex
offenders, a small segment of the larger pardon group.
The
solicitor general's department has recently estimated that,
during the past 28 years, 4,200 sex offenders have received
pardons and, of these, 114 or 2.6% have had their pardon revoked
for commission of another sex offence.
Thus, these estimates demonstrate that, thankfully, only a very
small number of pardoned sex offenders continue to pose a risk
to society and to children in particular.
No matter how small the number, we are determined to reduce
that risk to the lowest level possible. And that is why Bill
C-69 is so crucial.
1015
This is not a new found concern of the government. Bill C-69 is
founded on measures that have been taken since the beginning of
our mandate.
In 1993, extensive consultations were conducted in every region
of this country with child-caring organizations of many
descriptions: school and child welfare officials, voluntary
organizations such as Boys and Girls Clubs, Big Brother and Big
Sister agencies, Volunteer Canada, etc.
Police were also included in all of these consultations as were
victims organizations.
It was clear in those consultations that a check of criminal
records constitutes only one part of a comprehensive screening
process, but an important and essential part.
Based on that consensus, the national screening system was
launched in 1994. That system is a collaborative effort
involving child-caring agencies, the police community, the
Canadian Police Information Centre, or CPIC, and the departments
of the solicitor general, health and justice.
Volunteer Canada in particular has been an important partner in
training and informing the voluntary community about sound
screening practices Only recently, I was proud to participate
in the launch of a public information campaign by Volunteer
Canada.
With the motto “You Have A Responsibility to Question”, it will
encourage parents to insist that organizations to which they
entrust their children have effective screening practices. The
national screening system provides access to criminal records of
applicants for positions of trust with children and vulnerable
persons.
With the consent of the applicant—I repeat, because this is
important, with the consent of the applicant—local police check
the CPIC records system for a criminal record. They then
provide the results of that search to the screening agency,
usually through the applicant him or herself, for review as to
its relevance to the position in question.
The national screening system has been working well and its use
by the voluntary sector and other bona fide organizations is
constantly expanding.
There have been over 700,000 searches conducted to date.
Bill C-69 further refines the national screening system by
correcting a weakness that has been identified in its use. That
is the fact that a pardoned record of a sex offender could be
overlooked during a routine screening check of the CPIC system.
As it stands today, the solicitor general has the authority to
unseal and disclose a pardoned record for purposes consistent
with the administration of justice, including screening.
However, he cannot use that authority if such records are not
requested—and they cannot be requested if their existence is
unknown.
Because such records are removed from the CPIC system and kept
separately in a sealed database, they do not show up when a
routine query of CPIC is made.
This is exactly what is intended by the Criminal Records Act.
For most purposes these records should be invisible. However,
when persons are applying for a position of trust and their
record suggests there would be an increased level of risk to a
specific vulnerable category of person, an exception is
warranted.
There was unanimous agreement on this point among the federal,
provincial and territorial ministers of justice and solicitors
general when they met in October 1998. A working group of
senior officials examining ways to better protect children
submitted 10 recommendations to their ministers. All 10 were
adopted and are being implemented at this time.
One proposal was that the records of pardoned sex offenders be
made available for consideration during screening of persons for
positions of trust.
The federal Solicitor General, with the support of the Minister
of Justice, undertook at that meeting to determine how best to
do so, in consultation with provincial partners. Consequently,
Bill C-69 provides that when a criminal record that includes a
sex offence is pardoned and removed from CPIC, a notation or
flag will be left in its place. After that, when a screening
check is conducted, that notation will direct the police officer
doing the search to submit fingerprints to CPIC headquarters
with a request for that record.
It will then be brought forward to the Solicitor General to
consider its unsealing.
1020
Some will say that this measure runs counter to the fundamental
intent of the Criminal Records Act. Admittedly there is some
basis for that position, but it is the government's view that
this is a narrow and limited exception that is warranted.
Ministers of justice from all jurisdictions have supported this
principle, as have all parties in this place.
Not taking this step would risk incurring the potential
consequences of the pardon helping a predatory sex offender work
his way into a position of trust with vulnerable people. I say
it is a narrow exception. Only sex offences on a list that will
be placed in regulations will cause a flag to be placed on CPIC.
This flag will only become visible during a screening search
that will be indicated by the entry code on the computer
terminal.
Unauthorized use of that code will be prohibited by the act and
by CPIC policy. Moreover, there will be other safeguards built
into the system.
Consent of the applicant will always be required and he will
retain the option of abandoning the application if he wishes not
to disclose his record to the screening agency.
Fingerprints will accompany the request to unseal a pardoned
record to ensure the accurate identification of the applicant.
And finally, the Solicitor General will have to agree that
disclosure of the record is warranted.
These safeguards will protect the rights of pardoned
ex-offenders. They will protect them from having their pardoned
records arbitrarily disclosed while ensuring that bona fide
agencies will have access to the full record of applicants who
have committed sex offences.
This will not automatically deny them placement in such
positions, but it will allow agencies to fully consider what
role in their organization would be appropriate for such
persons.
Ensuring that police will play a central role in screening will
provide considerable assurance that the system will not be
abused by persons who are trying to evade detection.
Before concluding, I should mention that flagging pardoned
records on CPIC is not the only provision in Bill C-69. The bill
will also clarify and strengthen the pardon system is other ways
as well.
For example, it will provide that pardons will be automatically
revoked upon conviction for a so-called hybrid offence—one that
can be prosecuted by indictment or a summary offence.
At present, automatic revocation applies only to indictable
offences.
In addition, a waiting period of at least one year will be
required before an applicant who has been denied a pardon can
apply again.
Appeals to the board in cases of denial or revocation of a
pardon will now normally be in writing only, and the act will
specify more clearly that the effect of the pardon is to seal
the record, not expunge the fact of conviction.
Regulations to the act will also specify the sex offences that
will be flagged on CPIC and the wording that must be used in the
consent form that applicants sign.
Regulations will also set out the factors that are considered by
the Solicitor General in making his decision whether or not to
unseal a record.
These are important changes. They are changes that are based on
experience with earlier and effective measures already
instituted by this government. They respond to the unanimous
recommendation of provincial and territorial colleagues.
They are consistent, I believe, with the shared concern of all
hon. members to do all that is possible to protect our children
and vulnerable adults from predatory sexual offenders who would
conspire to harm them.
We on this side of the House welcome the interest and support of
the other parties for this important legislation. In view of
the clear interest of all parties, I am confident we can proceed
expeditiously with this legislation.
Naturally, I invite all my colleagues in this House to support
the bill. I will conclude, however, by again complimenting them
all, particularly the hon. member for Calgary Centre, for the
superb contribution and excellent co-operation that has led the
Standing Committee on Justice to stand unanimously behind this
bill.
1025
[English]
Mr. Eric Lowther (Calgary Centre, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I
want to express my sincere thanks to the hon. member for
Brossard—La Prairie for his excellent speech. He has covered
many of the key points on the bill. I do not think it would
serve the House for me to repeat them at any great length. He
has articulated the purpose of the bill very well.
I will just touch on a couple of the points that have brought us
to the decision the House will make today on Bill C-69. These
points have to do with the human interest part of the bill. It
speaks well to the process we have and that it can still work.
The hon. member articulated the purpose of the bill. It is to
allow access to pardons. If a person, who has committed sexual
offences, particularly against children, applies for a position
of caring for children, there would be an opportunity for
organizations to get access to the pardon records.
Bill C-69 is a bill for which, not surprisingly, there is broad
support in the House. It relates very specifically to a bill
that I brought forward to the House, Bill C-284, which
effectively did the same thing and which passed second reading in
the House.
We have the information in the CPIC system today of those who
have been pardoned for sexual offences, as the hon. member
mentioned. The bill will now allow those pardon records to be
flagged so that those who want access to that information in
order to assess someone who is applying for a job of caring for
children can now have access even past the pardon.
It is a good bill. It is very consistent with Bill C-284, which
I brought forward.
My bill, Bill C-284, passed second reading in the House. At
about the time that we were in the justice committee looking at
Bill C-284 the government brought Bill C-69 forward. Bill C-69
effectively did the same thing as my bill. It was broader in some
areas and included more types of sex offences, which was good.
However, it was not as strong in our estimation in some other
areas.
Collectively, we worked together to bring both bills to that
committee at the same time so that committee members could
examine the different aspects of both bills and come up with a
stronger option at the end of the day.
There are some things I would like to see in Bill C-69 that are
not there, but the majority of issues I was concerned about have
been addressed.
How did we get here? I think there is a human interest story
the House should be aware of. Six years ago a lady in Vancouver
named Gertie Pool started a petition to allow for greater access
to information to protect children from sexual predators which
quickly received 25,000 names and was brought forward to the
House.
The Reform Party member for Fraser Valley put forward a private
member's bill in the 35th parliament that was basically on the
same theme as Bill C-69 and Bill C-284. That bill was never
drawn or deemed votable but it was in the House.
In the 36th parliament, I took the member's bill, modified it
slightly and put it back into the mix. Interestingly enough, my
private member's bill was drawn. I appeared before the committee
to see if it would be deemed votable and we had some witness
testimony that helped the decision. In the wisdom of the
committee, they said, “Yes, let us bring this before the House
and make it votable”.
We debated the bill in the House. Even though there were a
number of members on the government side who thought maybe we did
not need Bill C-284, it passed second reading and that got it to
committee.
1030
From a concerned citizen's petition we have a private member's
bill that has passed second reading. The government was also
somewhat concerned about the issue. It had been doing some
studies in Correctional Service Canada and was working on Bill
C-69.
This all came together in the justice committee. Once we were
in committee we put forward some amendments to make it a more
automatic disclosure so that there would be less discretion on
whether or not the information would be disclosed to the hiring
institution.
I give thanks to the many witnesses that came before the
committee such as the police association and the chiefs of police
association. Julian Fantino also came forward, as well as many
victims groups. These witnesses brought home the tragedy of a
sexual offence, particularly against children, being a life
sentence to the victims, something they never fully get over.
Many groups from the YMCA, boys groups, boy scouts and all kinds
of children's organizations signed on. They told us they were
behind us in this regard and wanted us to get it through the
House of Commons. Many of them sacrificed time and effort to
support the bill. They are one of the reasons we are able to
support an amended version of Bill C-69 which combines the
strength of both bills.
I commend my colleague from Brossard—La Prairie. He has been
instrumental in working with the committee, with the solicitor
general and with me. He has been true to his word throughout the
process. He has been a key factor in bringing it all together
and implementing a very important bill, which I believe is one of
the first bills of the new solicitor general.
This very important bill allows children's organizations and
those concerned about the care of children to do a thorough check
of the information. The information is in the CPIC system. The
flagging which he detailed in his speech is all that is needed.
We can now use the information we already have to do a more
thorough check to protect our children.
I am glad we have been able to demonstrate in the House through
the bill and through the process that we can bypass partisan
issues. We are not entirely agreed on how exactly to do it, but
substantively, for the most part, there is agreement. It is
better that we get 80% rather than nothing. Both sides of the
House saw that. At the end of the day we have proven that the
process can work, that we can serve the needs of Canadians and
that we can better protect children.
In addition to the good work the bill will do, for me and for
many members of the committee one of the most rewarding aspects
of the whole process is that with persistence, perseverance and
an honest concern on the part of citizens, witnesses and members
of the House we can put forward legislation that serves the
people and better protects our children, the most vulnerable
members of society.
We can actually implement laws which will enable us to do that.
A very encouraging note for me as a two year member of the House
is that there is a way for all of us to impact on the process if
we really care about putting Canadians first and putting some of
our partisan positions aside.
I thank the House and the member for the earnest and diligent
effort that all have applied in this regard. I encourage the
House to send the bill on today to the Senate and hopefully soon
for royal assent so people have access to this new tool to
better protect Canadian children.
1035
[Translation]
Mrs. Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral (Laval Centre, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I
am taking part today in this debate at the third reading stage
of Bill C-69, an act to amend the Criminal Records Act and to
amend another act in consequence.
Before speaking to the bill, I would like, on behalf of my
colleague from Charlesbourg, to acknowledge the excellent work
done by the Standing Committee on Justice in its study of Bill
C-69. I am pleased to lend my voice to the member for
Charlesbourg to recognize the exceptional spirit of co-operation
shown by all members of this committee, who set aside any
partisanship to do a thorough study of this bill. This kind of
spirit should always be present in committee work.
Bill C-69 amends the Criminal Records Act and one provision of
the Criminal Code. To better understand the meaning of these
amendments, one must take a quick look at the current Criminal
Records Act, which dates back to 1985.
This act allows those who are convicted of a criminal offence to
be granted a pardon after serving their sentence. Such pardon
may be granted after a specified period, provided there are no
other convictions during that period.
The period is three years for a summary offence and five years
for an indictable offence. After having repaid his or her debt
to society, a person may apply for a pardon to the National
Parole Board.
Pardon eases the rehabilitation of an individual who has served
his sentence by removing the negative aspects of sentencing in
the case of such things as jobs and travel abroad. The records
of pardoned individuals are therefore kept separately from other
criminal records and may not be disclosed.
I should also mention that a pardon may be revoked automatically
if an individual is convicted on summary conviction or by the
parole board if the individual is found guilty of an offence
punishable either on indictment or on summary conviction or if
the board deems the behaviour of an individual is such that he
no longer deserves to be pardoned.
The three main changes proposed by Bill C-69 are the following.
The first is the imposition of a waiting period prior to
re-application for a pardon following a denial. In the existing
legislation, an individual whose pardon application has been
denied may re-apply immediately.
Under the second, the pardon will be automatically revoked on
sentencing for a hybrid offence, that is, an offence punishable
either on indictment or on summary conviction.
Third, and this is the biggest change to the bill, a provision
provides for notations in the records of individuals found
guilty of sexual crimes and pardoned. This provision will
permit disclosure of the records of these individuals when they
apply for a job in which they will be in close contact with
children or vulnerable groups.
Clause 6.3 of the bill permits the disclosure under certain
circumstances of the record of an individual who has been
pardoned. This provision is a measure of protection against
repeat offences by pardoned sexual offenders. The aim is to
prevent a pardoned sexual offender from becoming a playground
supervisor or holding some other position putting him in contact
with children or other vulnerable groups, such as people with
mental handicaps.
The RCMP will therefore be able to separately identify the
records of persons who have been pardoned and who have been
sentenced for a sexual offence.
1040
Consequently, an agency like Big Brothers, for instance, could
ask the RCMP to disclose the record of a convicted sexual
offender. Of course, the offender must consent to the content of
his record being disclosed.
If the record shows that the individual has previously been
convicted of a sexual offence, the solicitor general must break
the seal and release the information to the police who would
then inform the agency.
This provision is an exception to the pardon principle, which
can be justified by the fact that our society wants children to
be protected against sexual predators, even those who have been
pardoned.
It is important to recognize however that the current
legislation meets its objectives. In fact, the recidivism rate
of pardoned offenders is about 2%. Since 1971, almost 250,000
pardon applications have been granted and less than 2.4% of
pardons have been revoked by the National Parole Board.
During the same period, covering almost 30 years, some 12,000
pardons were granted to sexual offenders and about 700 pardons
were revoked because of a subsequent sexual offence.
Even if the current recidivism rate is very low, at about 5.8%,
we hope that Bill C-69 will help to reduce it and even provide
an incentive to promote and facilitate the pardon process. This
is why the Bloc Quebecois will be supporting Bill C-69.
[English]
Mr. Pat Martin (Winnipeg Centre, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I am
pleased to be able to add our contribution to this debate.
Our critic in this area has already spoke to the fact that the
NDP caucus finds a lot of merit in Bill C-69. We understand that
the bill finds its origins in a legitimate public concern about
the legitimate social issue of whether our interest comes from
the fact that one is a parent and has concern about these issues,
whether one works for an NGO or is one of the employers who may
be concerned about a certain type of individual to be hired or
the qualities the individual may possess. We are very glad to
see the bill introduced because it finally starts to address
legitimate concerns.
The amendments to the Criminal Records Act which we understand
Bill C-69 to introduce would flag the criminal records of
hardened sex offenders seeking positions of trust. That is the
operative word. There has to be some burden of proof that the
person is making application for a position of trust.
Bill C-69 would make them available for screening purposes by
placing a flag on the records of convicted sex offenders so that
police could be alerted. The sealed pardoned record would exist
so they could then request the solicitor general's authorization
to unseal the permanent record. Even if the individual has been
pardoned and the criminal record has been sealed, the bill would
give access to that information if it were deemed necessary.
In answer to these concerns Bill C-69 would develop a schedule
of offences to be flagged. It does not mean that all pardoned
offenders would have their records flagged. It would be a
schedule of the types of things the community needs to know about
and that should be flagged. It would also place a definition on
children and vulnerable groups so that we would know what groups
would be making application for the unsealing of closed records.
It is valuable to specify in the regulations factors to be
considered by the solicitor general when looking at an unsealed
pardoned record that should be reviewed, itemized and clarified.
1045
Bill C-69 automatically revokes pardons for new convictions of
indictable or hybrid offences. Someone may have been pardoned or
there may be a pardon on record for a past offence but new
offences obviously would have to be reviewed and revisited.
The NDP supports the overall intent of the legislation to ensure
that the criminal records of pardoned sex offenders seeking
positions of trust are available to law enforcement officers for
screening purposes.
The one thing we have to be careful about in this type of
legislation is that the rights of the individual still must be
protected. The test of legislation of this kind is if it meets
that challenge and we can be comfortable that the rights of the
individual are not being trampled because that would not be to
anyone's benefit.
Bill C-69 strikes a sufficient balance between the rights of the
individual and the safety concerns of the community. That is the
ultimate test and that is the thing we have to be worried about.
By giving law enforcement agencies the authority to access all
records relating to the previous criminal conduct of an
individual we may be able to prevent future tragedies. This is
something that all members of the House, and I am pleased to see
all speakers so far, are firmly committed to.
The NDP has always recognized that the true measure of our
community and our culture is how we treat the most vulnerable in
our society. Nobody would argue that children placed in a
position of trust are easily those who are the most vulnerable.
We believe that legislation like this takes us one more step down
the road of making sure that our society can provide a safe and
nurturing place for those people who are most vulnerable.
We have always maintained that history will judge us not by the
illustrious buildings in our capital cities nor the might of our
armies. We will be judged by what measures we have taken in this
very privileged time to make sure we all enjoy the benefits not
only of the redistribution of wealth but also of having some
measure of safety and security no matter where we and our
children are.
We are glad to vote in favour of Bill C-69. We are very pleased
this measure came forward. It is the right thing to do and a
very timely thing to do. We compliment the movers of the
amendments. I give my assurance that the NDP caucus will vote in
favour of Bill C-69.
Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC):
Mr. Speaker, I am also pleased to take part in this debate. I
can assure the hon. member who just spoke that it will be
unanimous in terms of our support. The Conservative Party as
well is very much in favour of this bill as we were of that of
the hon. member for Calgary Centre. His Bill C-284 was the impetus to
the government's adoption of this particular notion.
As outlined by previous speakers who referred to Bill C-69, this
particular act that is to be amended will now incorporate and
permit law enforcement agencies, and by virtue of their
co-operation, agencies such as Big Brothers, Scouts Canada,
kindergartens and those who seek to have persons in positions of
trust in their employ, to inquire through the police and through
the solicitor general's department about the appearance on a
person's record of a prior sexual assault conviction. Prior to
this amendment there was no ability to do so with any certainty.
As has been mentioned a balance always has to be struck when one
is attempting to disclose information that was deemed to have
been pardoned. This country's pardon system has often been
questioned. This bill and the amendment to this type of
information is very positive.
1050
Along those lines, May 3 to May 7 was sexual awareness week. The
city of Lethbridge promoted this week by bringing to the
attention of Canadians the issue of sexual assault. It made this
comment in its literature: “It is not an issue of sex; it is an
issue of power and control”. That is very true when it comes to
the disclosure of information to protect those in our society who
are most vulnerable. I am talking here about children who are
very vulnerable when exposed potentially to individuals who have
been convicted of sexual assaults.
This bill, which will amend the Criminal Records Act and other
acts as a consequence, will provide the necessary protection. It
allows access to records of pardoned individuals which was
previously unavailable. It will work in conjunction with another
bill which is currently before the House of Commons, Bill C-79.
That bill is aimed specifically at bringing victims more into the
picture with respect to our criminal justice system. It is
intended to allow access in particular by the police and agencies
to this vital information which concerns sex offenders who had
received a pardon previously.
The safeguards to protect the individual's rights exist within
the legislation. The solicitor general has a degree of
discretion where, as referred to, police officers are now
mandated to make the disclosure when the request has occurred and
the proper vetting has also occurred. There are safeguards and
scrutiny will take place before the information will be
disclosed.
We are all aware of high profile individual cases that have
become very public, one of which rocked our national sport of
hockey. I am referring to the Toronto Maple Leafs scandal
involving an usher, John Roby whose case is now coming to a
close. Mr. Roby was facing 35 charges of molesting children and
showed very little remorse throughout the trial.
This type of predatory violence is something we must do
everything possible about in this House and certainly in our law
enforcement. We must do everything within our means to ensure
the proper information is disseminated to society so people will
know and can identify those persons who are preying on our most
vulnerable the children.
Prior access to criminal records may not have helped in that
case. This is a situation where this is not retroactive for cases
that have already been heard. But in similar future situations
where there is a high rate of recidivism, which is the case when
it comes to sexual assault complainants, they need to know that
individuals have in the past engaged in this type of despicable
behaviour. These records will be flagged.
Individuals who have engaged in that activity and who have been
for whatever reason granted a pardon will have their records
flagged. Agencies will be permitted to gain access to that
information and then make informed decisions as to whether they
would put a person with that type of record in a position of
working in close contact with children.
Another tragic case which has garnered much public attention is
the case of Alison Parrot, an 11 year old who was raped and
murdered by Francis Carl Roy in 1989. Alison's mother tried to
seek justice in the death of her daughter yet there was a further
tragedy. Mr. Roy should not have been on the streets. He had
two prior convictions for the rapes of teenage girls and had
assaulted another woman only days before Alison Parrot was raped
and murdered. The judge decided to protect Mr. Roy's right to
presumption of innocence and agreed to the defence motion not to
disclose to the jury the prior convictions in the other cases.
This will be an issue for another day, but I suggest again that
when it comes to the protection of children, information is
power. It is power in the hands of those who need it most,
mainly the police and agencies that oversee children through
their education or caregiving.
Bill C-69 will set up a sex offender registry which will be
accessed over the Canadian Police Information Centre, the CPIC
system. That information will be quickly available to police
officers who can then pass it on to those who make the inquiries.
This again is important. Speed of access is very important.
When a person applies for a job or volunteers for an
organization, the information needed for the decision to hire or
not to hire is required in a very expeditious way.
1055
Another measure that would enable people to notify these
agencies like CPIC is by making direct inquiries through the
solicitor general's department. Again this is a welcome change.
If we continue to enact legislation such as Bill C-69, we may
some day reach a point where the Canadian public will again begin
to believe in our justice system and have greater faith in the
ability of our law enforcement agencies to protect them from
sexual predators.
There is always talk in situations such as this one of the
charter of rights and the individual's rights to be protected.
We know that a pardon is an extraordinary remedy when a person
has already been convicted and has gone through the proper legal
channels. However there are some instances, and obviously the
protection of children is one, that outweigh that individual's
rights to keep this information private.
I suggest that there is a recognition of this by the government
and the efforts of the hon. member for Calgary Centre and all
participants of the justice committee. I would commend the
witnesses who also came forward and spoke in favour of this
legislative initiative.
Criminal records concerning a pardoned offence will only be
released by the solicitor general or the RCMP after there is
written notification given to the affected offender. There will
also be an element of vetting as to the appropriateness of this
decision.
Community rights in most instances should prevail. Statistics
have shown that since 1994, 700 pardoned individuals have
reoffended. This is somewhat disturbing, particularly when it
again bears on the protection of children.
[Translation]
I believe in democracy. Therefore, I believe in rights for
everyone, including former sexual offenders. I can understand
the minister's dilemma: she must always try to ensure that the
rights of all Canadians are protected.
With Bill C-69 the minister tried to come up with a bill that
will protect all Canadians. In a democracy we must
debate bills, to allow elected representatives to suggest
possible changes. Normally, these changes will improve the
legislation.
However, a balance is necessary.
The Deputy Speaker: I apologize for interrupting the hon. member
for Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, but he will be able to continue
his speech after Oral Question Period.
STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS
[English]
WORKPLACE SAFETY
Mr. George Proud (Hillsborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
safety in the workplace is a priority for Canadians and the
Canadian government. Safety and productivity are also
interdependent factors in the workplace. Therefore it gives me
great pleasure to rise before the House and salute all workers of
Canada and the people who are working to make Canadian workplaces
safer.
The week of May 17 to 23 marks the annual North American
Occupational Safety and Health Week. This special week gives us
an opportunity to promote awareness of the importance of
preventing injury and illness in the workplace.
Injury on the job has a tremendous emotional, physical and
financial toll on many Canadian workers and their families every
year. It also results in diminished productivity and lost work
time. An investment in occupational health and safety is an
investment in the economic health of Canadian business and the
well-being of workers.
Many special events have been planned in Canada, Mexico and the
United States to bring attention to workplace safety issues
during the week of May 17 to 23. I urge all my hon. colleagues
in the House to become involved.
* * *
PENTICTON AIRPORT
Mr. Jim Hart (Okanagan—Coquihalla, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I
rise to congratulate the 4,000 people of Okanagan—Coquihalla who
signed a petition demonstrating their concern over the future of
the Penticton airport. Their voice was key to averting an
economic disaster in the south Okanagan.
This week the Minister of Transport announced that the Penticton
regional airport will remain open under the management of the
Department of Transport. This is not a long term commitment.
The federal Liberals bungled the transfer of the airport to the
city of Penticton from the beginning. They appointed a
negotiator unacceptable to all parties, which forced the collapse
of an agreement in principle. The Liberals made a delicate
Indian lands claim the responsibility of a municipal government
to negotiate, clearly a federal responsibility. At the last
minute they changed safety regulations that would have added
$450,000 per year to the operating costs of the airport.
1100
The people of Okanagan—Coquihalla came to negotiate the
transfer of the airport in good faith. The next time they expect
the federal Liberals to do the same.
* * *
WORLD TELECOMMUNICATIONS DAY
Mr. David Pratt (Nepean—Carleton, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
Monday, May 17 is the day members of the International
Telecommunications Union celebrate World Telecommunications Day.
The theme of this year's World Telecommunications Day is
electronic commerce. This theme captures many of the most
important challenges facing the ITU as we enter the 21st century.
E-commerce means that the nature of economic activity will
change everywhere in the world, not just in the developed
countries.
Access to information networks will become as important for
investors as raw materials, energy and labour. In the
information age, countries that do not have access to information
networks will not grow, no matter how rich their natural
endowments.
Access to electronic information services will be necessary for
consumers and producers to buy and sell products at the most
efficient prices. In the coming global competition for goods and
services, protected markets will not prosper.
Canada is well positioned to take advantage of the e-commerce
challenge. As the Prime Minister said last year, we want to make
Canada the most connected nation in the world and a world leader
in e-commerce by the year 2000. I know that as a nation we will
rise to this challenge.
* * *
[Translation]
CANADIAN TULIP FESTIVAL
Mr. Mac Harb (Ottawa Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the world's
largest tulip festival is taking place from May 14 to May 24.
Fifty years ago, Princess Juliana of the Netherlands, who had
spent the war years in Ottawa, gave 100,000 tulips to the
nation's capital, to thank Canada for liberating her country
during World War II.
The numerous events that mark the Canadian Tulip Festival are
aimed at promoting culture and entertaining the numerous
visitors from all regions of Canada and from abroad.
The festivities will take place on more than 13 sites in the
national capital region and will include various public shows.
The Government of Canada is proud to be associated with this
event. I hope that all my fellow citizens in the region, and all
those who will visit the national capital region in the coming
weeks, will enjoy this blossoming of colours and shapes.
* * *
[English]
MARNIE PAIKIN
Ms. Paddy Torsney (Burlington, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, it is
my pleasure to congratulate a great Canadian and a new member of
the Order of Canada, Ms. Marnie Paikin.
Blessed with a quick mind and an incredible ability to analyze
and synthesize vast quantities of information, Marnie has applied
her smarts to numerous social causes and to many successful
Canadian businesses.
Marnie has dedicated herself to improving the lives of people in
her community. She has worked hard for health and cultural
organizations, including the Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra.
An avid sports fan, Marnie's love for the CFL, in particular the
Hamilton Ti-Cats, is legendary. In the early 1980s I saw my
first Blue Jays game with sports commentator extraordinaire,
Marnie Paikin.
A former resident of Burlington and a true Hamilton booster, I
know that I join Marnie's huge fan club, her many admiring
neighbours and her wonderful family in being proud of her
accomplishments and wishing her every continued success.
* * *
ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE
Mr. Chuck Cadman (Surrey North, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, for
months now we have been demanding that the solicitor general
restore funding to the RCMP so that they can do their job
properly.
There have been stories of reduced drug operations, parked and
damaged patrol cars, the grounding of aircraft and boats, and
unacceptable responses to citizen complaints.
We have another one for the list. In Surrey we recently lost
three of our nine school liaison officers; that is, one-third.
According to the RCMP the officers were redeployed to other areas
because of a staff shortage brought on by a lack of funding and a
shortage of new recruits.
Three of our schools recently had bomb threats. A recent survey
of students found that 44% were concerned with drugs, 41%
complained of fighting and 31% found bullying to be a problem.
Now we lose one-third of our liaison officers.
Maybe the solicitor general would like to explain to my
constituents how his government can bankroll pornographic films
while their children's safety is being put at risk through lack
of funding.
Surrey now has 16 vacancies and that number is expected to rise
to 23 by the end of the summer. We are tired of hearing about
reviews and studies. We want the problem to be fixed.
* * *
[Translation]
INTERNATIONAL MUSEUMS DAY
Mr. Mauril Bélanger (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Canadian Heritage, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like to draw the
attention of my colleagues in the House to the fact that May 18
will mark International Museums Day. The day's theme of the
pleasures of discovery underscores the fact that museums are
sources of entertainment and discovery.
In Canada, in addition to drawing some 5.5 million visitors a
year, our museums are major employers and important educators.
1105
This is why our government is proud to have increased the
museums assistance program's budget by $2 million this year and
to sponsor Bill C-64, which will institute the indemnification
program for travelling exhibitions.
In addition, this summer, Young Canada Works will provide jobs
for 800 young people in Canada's heritage facilities.
I join with my colleagues in this House in inviting all
Canadians to take advantage of the cultural activities organized
across the country to celebrate museums.
* * *
AGROLOGISTS
Ms. Hélène Alarie (Louis-Hébert, BQ): Mr. Speaker, I am delighted
today to salute my classmates and their spouses, who have come
to Parliament Hill to celebrate 36 years of life in agronomy.
When we graduated in 1963 from Laval, our motto was to feed the
world and save the planet. To this end, each of us worked in
very different sectors. Some returned to the land, others chose
basic or applied research, government affairs, teaching,
international co-operation, industry, farm credit, agricultural
extension, tobacco, food inspection, the environment, banking,
the Canadian milk board and administrative tribunals—all
spheres related to agriculture.
We were considered a remarkable group.
Perhaps this view of us was well founded, because many of us
have held influential positions in all areas of the agri-food
sector. Some have already left us, and we miss them today.
To each of my classmates, I say welcome to the House and what a
pleasure it is to have you here.
* * *
[English]
STONEY CREEK CITIZENS OF THE YEAR
Mr. Tony Valeri (Stoney Creek, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I
would like to congratulate this year's recipients of the Stoney
Creek Chamber of Commerce Citizen of the Year Awards.
Anne Bono has been involved in a wide variety of volunteer tasks
and is a native of Stoney Creek. Her contributions extend from
22 years as past president of the Stoney Creek Chapter of the
Canadian Cancer Society to her work with the Catholic Women's
League. She is a dedicated individual and continues to inspire
us all to do more.
Graham Murray has been awarded Junior Citizen of the Year for
his contributions to many causes. He is a committed volunteer
and he is being recognized for his capacity to inspire and
motivate his peers.
Finally, the winning Corporate Citizen of the Year is Fortino's
in the Fiesta Mall. Fortino's is a leader in product and
marketing innovations and has always been an active partner in
community oriented fundraising, especially with the Heart and
Stroke Foundation.
I extend my best wishes and congratulations to this year's
recipients.
* * *
RIGHT HON. JOHN GEORGE DIEFENBAKER
Mr. Derrek Konrad (Prince Albert, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I
rise today to remember the Right Hon. John George Diefenbaker,
Canada's 13th Prime Minister, who first took his seat in the
House of Commons on this day in 1940.
The Chief, as he was known, served the constituents of my riding
of Prince Albert for 39 years until his death in 1979. That
strong association with Prince Albert, I have found, continues to
this day.
John Diefenbaker is remembered for a number of accomplishments,
including the appointment in 1957 of Ellen Fairclough as the
first woman cabinet minister and the extension of the vote to all
aboriginals in 1960. His most important contribution to Canada
was the drafting of the Canadian Bill of Rights, which passed in
1958.
Diefenbaker was a leader who made Canadians feel good about
themselves, beginning most of his public addresses with his
distinctive “My fellow Canadians”.
It is fitting then that his riding should be represented now by
a party that believes in the common sense of the common people
and their right to be consulted on public policy matters.
* * *
[Translation]
ECOACTION PROGRAM
Mr. Mark Assad (Gatineau, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this week, the
Government of Canada allocated $2.75 million for the
implementation of 116 projects, as part of the Ecoaction 2000
program.
The federal government feels that the best way to improve the
environment and the health of our communities is to encourage
local communities to identify the problems and to propose
appropriate solutions for their environment.
This initiative is another example of how the Canadian
government, in co-operation with local organizations, is always
striving to improve our quality of life.
* * *
[English]
SHIPBUILDING INDUSTRY
Mr. Gordon Earle (Halifax West, NDP): Mr. Speaker, while
in opposition the Prime Minister wrote the following to the
Marine Workers Federation in 1990:
It is safe to say that most people recognize that something has
to be done to create a much more competitive shipbuilding
industry. The government should now, as they should have done
long ago and indeed as they promised to do, take steps to
alleviate the problem.
Almost nine years have passed since that letter was written and
for six of those years he has been the Prime Minister.
Our shipbuilding industry is foundering on the shoals of
government neglect and this Prime Minister refuses to act. The
United States, Italy, France, Spain, Britain, Korea and China
have shipbuilding strategies, but Canada does not.
1110
We have the technology and we have the skilled workers. What we
do not have is a federal government that is committed to the
future of a Canadian shipbuilding industry. The Port of Halifax
recently lost its bid for post-Panamax shipping business because
of a lack of strong support and commitment by the federal
government.
I call on the Liberal government to meet and work with the
shipbuilding workers, unions and businesses to craft a strategy.
* * *
[Translation]
NORTH SHORE HIGHWAY ACCIDENT
Mr. Ghislain Fournier (Manicouagan, BQ): Mr. Speaker, on
Wednesday, in my riding of Manicouagan, a terrible automobile
accident took the lives of four young students from the Cegep in
Sept-Îles.
These young women, who were full of life and plans for the
future, were on their way to write an exam. They leave behind
them parents, brothers, sisters, relatives and friends who loved
them and who are now facing a huge void.
The families and friends of Stéphanie, Marie-Ève, Julie and Fanny
now realize how fragile life is, and they will live through
difficult moments in the days and weeks to come. Only courage,
time and solidarity can help them overcome this tragedy.
On behalf of my colleagues and all the residents of Manicouagan,
it is with deep sadness that I offer my most sincere condolences
to the families and friends of these four young women.
* * *
FONDATION PAUL-GÉRIN-LAJOIE
Mr. Robert Bertrand (Pontiac—Gatineau—Labelle, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
35 years ago, on May 31, 1964, the Quebec Department of
Education was created, with Paul Gérin-Lajoie as its head.
The Fondation Paul-Gérin-Lajoie is using the occasion of this
anniversary to launch a fundraising campaign aimed at collecting
$2.3 million in donations from Canadian businesses.
The foundation's objective is to provide children here and in
other countries with the means to build their individual and
collective futures by acquiring a basic education.
The foundation's founder and president, Mr. Gérin-Lajoie,
stresses the importance of access to education “When all
children know how to read, write and count, they will have the
key to their future”.
We wish the foundation well in its undertaking. Let us hope
that they attain their objective and that access to education
for all children becomes a reality.
* * *
[English]
CANADA MILLENNIUM PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM
Mr. Norman Doyle (St. John's East, PC): Mr. Speaker, I
wish to bring to the attention of this House the shameful way the
federal government is handling the approval of project grants
under the Canada Millennium Partnership Program.
Next year, the year 2000 AD, marks the 1000th anniversary of the
arrival of the Vikings in Newfoundland. However, the Millennium
Bureau of Canada has refused to fund an application from the
Viking Millennium International Symposium. We could not find a
project more millennium related than a 1000th anniversary, but
still it was turned down.
Indeed, of the 301 projects approved under phase II of the
program, only four were approved from Newfoundland, less than 1%
of the total funding, even though Newfoundland comprises 2% of
the population of Canada.
This simply is not good enough. I call upon the federal
government to rectify the situation immediately.
* * *
INTERNATIONAL DAY OF FAMILIES
Ms. Eleni Bakopanos (Ahuntsic, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, tomorrow,
May 15, is the International Day of Families, established by the
United Nations General Assembly in 1993 to improve the
institutional capability of nations to tackle serious family
related problems.
I rise today to pay tribute to three non-profit organizations
which are key support elements for the families of my riding of
Ahuntsic.
[Translation]
The Union des familles d'Ahuntsic is a cultural and sports
association, whose activities include a summer camp for
disadvantaged children.
La Parenterie du nord de Montréal is a community self-help
association through which families help other families who have
a family member suffering from mental illness.
La Maison Buissonnière offers socialization services for
children and parent-child activities to a clientele of parents
and children from birth to four years of age.
[English]
In celebrating the International Day of Families I look forward
to the 15th annual National Family Week in my riding, which asks
grades 4 and 5 students to submit a piece of their artwork for
National Family Week.
I also call on everyone today to thank their families for their
love and support.
* * *
SHARED PARENTING
Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, last week thousands of Canadians, myself included, were
anticipating a favourable response from the justice minister to
the report “For the Sake of the Children”. Despite five and a
half years in this place, even I was holding out hope for the
necessary change.
1115
What a difference a week makes. Instead of bringing forward
legislation or even an action plan, the minister announced
another three year delay. She even went so far as to say that
divorce reform must be accompanied by spousal abuse laws. What
an insult to the millions of fathers whose marriages have failed
for a variety of reasons, almost all of which have nothing to do
with violence or abuse.
I am particularly frustrated with the minister because I have
brought forward two private members' bills relating to these
completely separate issues: Bill C-25 calling for shared
parenting laws, and Bill C-494 calling for protection for abused
spouses and their children whose lives are in danger.
If the justice minister really wants to do something about
spousal abuse she should pledge her party's support to the quick
passage of Bill C-494.
* * *
[Translation]
GÉRALD LAROSE
Mr. René Laurin (Joliette, BQ): Mr. Speaker, the CSN congress
begins today and will choose a successor to the man who
profoundly marked Quebec, Gérald Larose.
With 25 years of commitment and devotion to the cause of workers
in Quebec, 16 of which were spent as the head of the CSN, he
will remain an important figure in the history of the union
movement in Quebec.
During his long career, he was a part of every struggle for
social progress.
Yesterday, in an interview in Le Devoir, he proposed a new way
to look at the relations between society and government. We
should pay attention to the words and ideas of this man of great
experience.
An open and direct man, he always communicated with feeling the
faults of a free market society and the need for a more
equitable distribution of the collective wealth. He is also an
ardent defender of the idea of a sovereign Quebec, which, for
him represents as much the normal democratic and national course
of the people of Quebec as social justice.
The Bloc Quebecois salutes this great man and wishes him good
luck in his next undertaking.
ORAL QUESTION PERIOD
[English]
SUPREME COURT OF CANADA
Mr. Chuck Strahl (Fraser Valley, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
today Mr. Justice Peter Cory will celebrate his retirement from
Canada's supreme court. Speculation abounds that Louise Arbour
is likely to be the Prime Minister's first choice to replace him.
Ms. Arbour is clearly an impressive candidate, but whether it be
her or someone else, why is the Prime Minister afraid to bring
someone of that calibre before parliament so that we can review
that appointment before it becomes a fait accompli?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, there has been no announcement of any decision on the
replacement for the very distinguished Mr. Justice Cory.
The system we have been using, involving a recommendation by the
Prime Minister to cabinet and the decision by cabinet, has in the
past led to an outstanding supreme court. I am sure that the
application of this system in the future will lead to an
outstanding replacement for Mr. Justice Cory.
Mr. Chuck Strahl (Fraser Valley, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
just because a system has been around 130 years does not mean we
cannot make improvements on it.
Canadians realize the importance of the role played by Canada's
supreme court. It is a critical link in our democratic chain and
yet choosing our next chief justice is left to two or three
people hunkered down behind closed doors in the Prime Minister's
office.
The Canadian public wants and deserves a better system, a system
that consults the public by way of their elected officials here
in our democratic institution, the House of Commons.
Why is the Prime Minister so adverse to the public scrutiny and
accountability that a public review process would bring to the
judicial appointment?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the hon. member undermines the premise of his question
when he says that Mr. Justice Cory is the chief justice. He is a
very distinguished member of the court but he is not the chief
justice.
In any event, the accountability is there because when a
decision is made by cabinet of a replacement for Mr. Justice Cory
that decision is subject to the scrutiny of parliament through
question period, through debates in the House and through
parliamentary committees. The accountability is there and we are
pleased to accept the responsibility and be accountable for the
decision.
Mr. Chuck Strahl (Fraser Valley, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, the
Prime Minister fails to consult parliament on the most important
judicial and symbolic appointments. He signs treaties and even
commits Canada's troops to war without an actual vote in this
democratic institution, the House of Commons.
The Prime Minister has a perfect opportunity to bring the
judicial appointment process, kicking and screaming, into the
21st century. He can do it now with a “made in Canada” review
process.
Why does the Prime Minister not seize this opportunity to
enhance the role of the supreme court and its accountability to
the Canadian public by bringing that appointment process for
review in the House of Commons?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the hon. member says he is calling for a “made in
Canada” system but he seems to be calling for the American
system. What we have seen in the press about the American system
leads us to believe that what we are doing now and what we will
continue to do has brought good results.
It has not brought the court into any disrepute. In fact, we
have a very strong court and we want to see that continue.
1120
Mr. Eric Lowther (Calgary Centre, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
whenever we challenge the government it seems to come out with an
anti-American comment.
Review of the appointments to the country's top court is an
international phenomena. Countries like the Netherlands,
Germany, Italy and others all have such systems. Besides this,
provincial justice ministers, a retired supreme court justice and
legal experts from across the country all believe the current
system should be changed.
Why is the Prime Minister so afraid of parliament? What is it?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the Prime Minister is the last person to be afraid of
parliament, especially when it comes to being afraid of the
official opposition.
The Minister of Justice consults widely in making her
recommendation to the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister brings
the recommendation to cabinet, which makes a decision. That
decision is a matter that is subject to the scrutiny of
parliament.
We are accountable to parliament and through parliament to the
Canadian public. We will continue to be accountable for a system
that has led to one of the most outstanding supreme courts in the
world. We want to keep it that way.
Mr. Eric Lowther (Calgary Centre, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
what the government fails to realize is that in Canada parliament
is losing its supremacy. Courts have been undoing the work of
parliament for far too long.
We are elected here by the will of Canadians and we are held
accountable at least every five years. However, judges,
particularly supreme court judges today, have extraordinary
legislative powers but no accountability.
Why will the Prime Minister not send a clear, positive message
to the courts and Canadians by having the supreme court nominees
at least appear before parliament before they are appointed to
the bench?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, judges do not have legislative roles like the House of
Commons and like the other place.
The hon. member is wrong in suggesting that parliament played a
role in the past in appointing judges. It has never played any
such role.
The hon. member is again giving me the opportunity to say we
have an outstanding supreme court and this outstanding supreme
court has come into place because of the system we are using now.
He wants to change a system which has given us an outstanding
supreme court.
I say that Canadians want to have our court continue as a high
quality body. We will continue with the system that has led to
its greatness.
* * *
[Translation]
MINISTER OF HUMAN RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT
Mr. Stéphane Bergeron (Verchères—Les-Patriotes, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
the Minister of Human Resources Development is having a very
hard time defending himself against the information
commissioner's accusations.
In his letter of April 23, the commissioner wrote that “the
minister's office put its interests ahead of those of the
applicant and defied the legislation throughout this period.
This is completely unacceptable”.
Will the Prime Minister assure the House that such behaviour
will not go unchecked and that he intends to relieve the
minister of his duties if the minister does not have the decency
to resign?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the
information in question is already in the hands of the person
who requested it. The minister has said he is in the process of
reviewing his department's procedures and instituting
improvements.
I therefore think that the minister acted in a completely
appropriate manner, and I wonder why the hon. member continues
to raise these pointless questions.
Mr. Stéphane Bergeron (Verchères—Les-Patriotes, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
by refusing to discipline the Minister of Human Resources
Development, who contravened the Access to Information Act, the
Prime Minister is setting an important precedent that may, to
all intents and purposes, make this legislation ineffective.
What message is the Prime Minister sending to other ministers
and senior officials who might receive politically embarrassing
requests from journalists under the Access to Information Act?
Are they not being told to do as they please, because there is
no penalty for defying the law?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the
minister released the information. It is already in the hands
of the applicant for his use.
I can assure the House that the government and all ministers
consider the Access to Information Act to be a very important
piece of legislation and that, if its enforcement in a
particular department needs to be tightened up, it will be.
1125
Mrs. Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral (Laval Centre, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
the information commissioner is not just any public servant at
the service of the Prime Minister. He is accountable to this
parliament and his job is to ensure that the Access to
Information Act is complied with. The commissioner is now
accusing the office of the Minister of Human Resources
Development of having defied the act for political protection.
Can the Deputy Prime Minister tell us what the purpose of an
information commissioner is, if ministers can ignore him, defy
the act and not only get away with it, but even be congratulated
for it?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we
believe the commissioner is a very important officer of
parliament. This is why the minister already said that he took
the information commissioner's comments very seriously. The
minister has already taken measures to improve the provision of
replies by his department.
As I just said, we are not keeping the information secret. It is
already public knowledge.
Mrs. Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral (Laval Centre, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
four months later in the maritimes.
In the family trust scandal, the Liberals blamed the auditor
general. In the Somalia scandal, they blamed Mr. Justice
Létourneau. In the tainted blood scandal, they blamed Mr.
Justice Krever.
Are we to understand that, in this new scandal about the
withholding of information by the office of the Minister of
Human Resources Development, the Liberals are blaming the
information commissioner for making a tempest in a teapot?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, if
there is a scandal, it has to do with the questions put by Bloc
Quebecois members, who are using oral question period to ask
useless questions on a case that is already closed.
First, the information is public and, second, measures have
already been taken to make the necessary improvements.
* * *
[English]
IMMIGRATION
Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the
trade minister originally opposed the head tax as not Liberal.
The heritage minister opposed it. The revenue minister says that
he still opposes it. In fact the only person who seems to love
the head tax is the finance minister, its creator.
When will the finance minister finally get the message that
Canadians do not want refugee families treated as revenue
sources?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the hon. member is using the wrong terminology. There
is no head tax. There is a right of landing fee which is applied
to help people applying for permanent residence to deal with the
costs of the applications.
The question is totally premature because we are dealing with
refugees entering under minister's permits. There is no fee or
tax of any kind applied to those permits. If these people later
on want to apply to stay permanently there is a fee in place,
there is a loan program applicable to that fee.
This is a matter we can look into when the time comes. Right
now it is purely speculative and hypothetical.
Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the
time already came for the refugees who paid it last year, the
year before and the year before. Last year alone the finance
minister extracted $11 million from refugee families with his
head tax.
The finance minister also gave $11 million extra dollars to the
Senate. In fact, he could eliminate the head tax altogether if
he would just say no to the Senate.
Which one really needs a break: refugee families who have lost
everything, or the finance minister's friends in the Senate?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the hon. member as usual has her facts wrong. Refugees
do not pay the right of landing fee. They enter under minister's
permits for which no fees or taxes are payable. If later on they
apply for permanent residence other considerations apply.
When it comes to the Kosovar refugees, many of them at this
stage say they want to go back to their home countries. If they
later decide they want to stay permanently, other considerations
arise and they can be examined at that time.
* * *
AIRBUS
Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC): Mr.
Speaker, now that the RCMP has abandoned the criminal
investigation into Bre-X Minerals Ltd., perhaps it will
reconsider the wisdom of its politically motivated airbus fiasco.
Bre-X is the biggest alleged market fraud in Canadian history,
yet the RCMP gives up because Bre-X board members refuse to talk
and it is costing millions.
With the encouragement of the Liberal government, the RCMP
continues to waste taxpayers' dollars on the airbus investigation
that today has found no evidence, not a shred.
1130
When will the solicitor general take responsibility for the
RCMP, put an end to this continuous embarrassment and focus on
solving real crime, not settling Liberal vendettas?
[Translation]
Mr. Jacques Saada (Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General
of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by
correcting my colleague's introduction. To the best of my
knowledge, the RCMP investigation into Bre-X has not been
interrupted or abandoned.
As for the charges in the Bre-X affair, they are not the
responsibility of the Solicitor General of Canada or the
Minister of Justice of Canada, but rather of the Attorney
General of Alberta.
Furthermore, I would remind my colleague that the Solicitor
General of Canada does not interfere in operational matters of
the RCMP.
[English]
Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC):
Mr. Speaker, the last time I checked the RCMP was under the
ministry of the solicitor general. Canadians are tired of
excuses and want action. It is a fact that the RCMP is suffering
from a severe lack of funding due to Liberal budget cuts, yet as
Bre-X gets swept under the rug the partisan obsession against
Brian Mulroney continues to cost millions.
The National Post described it perfectly. It said that
the government was intent on finding something to do with someone
about a crime yet to be established in order to prove that it was
not entirely wrong headed in its pursuit of Airbus rumours in the
first place.
Letting this case fester and bumble on is not an option. The
solicitor general should tell Canadians when he will put an end
to this futile investigation.
[Translation]
Mr. Jacques Saada (Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General
of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, my colleague would like to see
the solicitor general decide when the RCMP needs to carry out an
investigation, and when it does not. I am sorry, but that is
not the role of the solicitor general.
As for the funding to which my colleague refers, I would like to
quote someone whom I will identify in a few seconds “We have
continued to fulfill the mandates entrusted to us. We may have
sometimes been a bit on the slow side, but no investigation has
ever been stopped for lack of funds”.
These are the words of Pierre Lange, Deputy Commissioner for
Quebec region, whom I congratulate on his excellent work to
date.
* * *
[English]
NATIONAL DEFENCE
Mr. Gary Lunn (Saanich—Gulf Islands, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
the minister of defence confirmed yesterday that the government
was planning to expropriate British Columbia property in Nanoose
Bay. This has never been done before in the history of Canada.
The government is resorting to threats rather than negotiation.
It would not dare consider it in any other province. It would
not even mention the word expropriate. This is an absolute
insult to every British Columbian.
I ask the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs why the the
double standard for British Columbia.
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, there is no double standard for British Columbia. We
are dealing with a Canadian military base which has existed since
1965.
The last time I looked, National Defence was a totally federal
responsibility under our Constitution in British Columbia and in
every other part of Canada. The base is needed for the purposes
of the Canadian navy and its allies. More will be said about
this matter later today when an announcement is made by other
ministers.
* * *
APEC SUMMIT
Mr. John Reynolds (West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast, Ref.):
Mr. Speaker, the student clamp down at the 1997 APEC summit
pleased now deposed Indonesian dictator Suharto so much that his
ambassador wrote to the Prime Minister thanking him for his
personal efforts in ensuring his safety. I guess a little
pepper-spray goes a long way in diplomatic circles.
For a PMO that has until now denied any involvement in the
security forces at APEC, was getting a pat on the back from a
deposed and disgraced dictator worth trampling on the rights of
Canadians?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I totally reject the premise of the hon. member's
question.
Representatives of the Prime Minister's Office have said that
they will make themselves available to testify in this matter
before the inquiry being carried out by a distinguished former
supreme court judge.
The hearings are under way. Let us see what the hearings have
to say and what the judge has to say. Then we will be in a
position to deal with the matter in the House of Commons if such
should be necessary.
* * *
[Translation]
MARIJUANA
Mr. Bernard Bigras (Rosemont, BQ): Mr. Speaker, on the subject
of the clinical trials on marijuana for medicinal purposes, our
information indicates that Department of Health officials are
currently in discussion with the American company Monsanto to
involve it in the supply of marijuana.
This company is known for its production of chemical fertilizers
and pesticides and its involvement with the bovine growth
hormone controversy.
Can the minister confirm that Monsanto is being considered in
the department's work hypotheses in connection with the supply
of marijuana.
1135
Hon. Allan Rock (Minister of Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
officials are currently working on preparing proposals for
clinical trials. We will get started in a few weeks. I am
awaiting the report and the results of their work.
Mr. Bernard Bigras (Rosemont, BQ): Mr. Speaker, several weeks
after the minister's announcement regarding the master plan, we
in the House are entitled to answers, if there is to be
transparency.
My question is clear. Yes or no, have officials contacted
Monsanto representatives and will the firm be included in the
minister's plans?
Hon. Allan Rock (Minister of Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I will
be very clear. No decision has yet been made on the source of
the marijuana for medical purposes, and, as I said clearly, I am
awaiting the results of the work by officials.
* * *
[English]
TAXATION
Mr. Gerry Ritz (Battlefords—Lloydminster, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, the taxaholic Liberal government is sitting on a huge
surplus. Half of that surplus has been ripped right out of
Canadians earning less than $20,000 a year. That is $6 billion a
year.
The Liberal government's heartless tax appetite has become a
major cause of poverty, killing productivity and driving down our
standard of living.
How can the tax rich Liberal government continue taking $6
billion a year from the Canadian working poor?
Hon. Jim Peterson (Secretary of State (International
Financial Institutions), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party
must be suffering from collective amnesia. In every one of our
budgets we have cut taxes.
In the last two budgets we took 600,000 Canadians off the tax
rolls. We had a tax cut of $16.5 billion over three years. That
ain't peanuts.
Mr. Jason Kenney (Calgary Southeast, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
it is this minister who is suffering from amnesia because he
seems to forget that the government has added 1.2 million
taxpayers to the tax rolls, some of whom they took off in the
last budget. More people are paying taxes. More low income
people below the poverty who are struggling to make ends meet are
paying taxes because of the government's reckless approach.
Why does he not follow the lead of the Mike Harris government
which will take 600,000 low income taxpayers off the tax rolls?
That is real tax relief.
Hon. Jim Peterson (Secretary of State (International
Financial Institutions), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party
would have us pay for tax cuts with borrowed money and drive us
into deficit. We just will not do it.
* * *
[Translation]
LABELLING REGULATIONS
Ms. Hélène Alarie (Louis-Hébert, BQ): Mr. Speaker, progress in
biotechnology allows for the growing production of genetically
modified foods that find their way on the market and on our
plates. Yesterday, Deputy Minister David Dodge recognized that
the Department of Health was completely overwhelmed as regards
the control of these foods.
My question is for the Minister of Agriculture. Does the
minister not think that one solution could be to regulate the
labelling of these genetically engineered foods, so that
consumers can make an informed decision about what they eat?
[English]
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the importance of analysing biotechnology
and the results of advanced science such as biotechnology is that
we use the most accurate and the best science available today.
Our regulatory framework is one of the best, if not the best in
the world, in order to assure consumers that safety will be
number one, safety to the environment, safety to animals and
safety to humans, before any product is registered in Canada as a
result of biotechnology.
[Translation]
Ms. Hélène Alarie (Louis-Hébert, BQ): Mr. Speaker, does the
minister realize that by not ensuring that genetically modified
foods are properly labelled, he is failing to fulfill his duty
to inform consumers and could undermine public confidence in the
food inspection process?
[English]
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I emphasize again that we use the best
science available today based on the advice of scientists from
around the world.
Science is reviewed by peer scientists and safety is number one.
When safety is number one and safety is assured based on the best
science today, consumers have nothing to fear.
* * *
THE ENVIRONMENT
Mr. Grant McNally (Dewdney—Alouette, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
the Sydney tar ponds is one of the worst environmental disasters
in Canadian history.
Residents now have toxic sludge laced with arsenic and other
poisons seeping into their basements.
1140
The Liberal government continues to do studies and reports yet
fails to take action. When will the government take action to
negotiate a permanent solution for the people of Frederick Street
and surrounding areas?
Ms. Paddy Torsney (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of the
Environment, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, perhaps the hon. member is
unaware of the process that is under way.
There is a joint action group that is identifying the solution.
It is a grassroots organization which Environment Canada is
supporting with research.
We have jurisdictional issues with the provinces. We certainly
support the provincial government's decision announced last night
to move families. I would hope members opposite would support
that initiative as well.
Mr. Bill Gilmour (Nanaimo—Alberni, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
try to tell the people who have toxic ooze coming into their
basements that the process is working.
I have been asking questions for five years on this subject and
getting very few answers. Five years, $70 million and we are no
closer to a solution. There are the highest cancer rates in Canada
and toxic goo oozing into basements.
When will the government permanently relocate the people of
Frederick Street away from this toxic nightmare?
Ms. Paddy Torsney (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of the
Environment, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, clearly the member opposite
has demonstrated his commitment to this issue and for that we
thank him.
The health of residents remains the first priority of the
government. We are very pleased the province has announced that
it will relocate residents. We look forward to continuing to
work with the local organization that is providing the solutions.
The Government of Canada is committed to helping. There will be
resources to do just that when the solutions are in place.
* * *
[Translation]
THE CONFERENCE OF PARLIAMENTARIANS FROM THE AMERICAS
Mr. Michel Guimond
(Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île-d'Orléans, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
the conference of parliamentarians from the Americas, or COPA,
is an international association which was working very well, but
the federal government decided to boycott it.
In addition to boycotting it, this government now wants to
replace it with another association that would exclude
parliamentarians from Quebec, American states, Mexico, and many
other states in the Americas.
Could the Minister of Foreign Affairs tell us why he is
boycotting this international forum and wants to exclude Quebec
once again?
Hon. Don Boudria (Leader of the Government in the House of
Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this is nonsense. The Canadian
government participated in the first conference, the only one so
far, in Quebec City. We participated once. Afterwards, the
Organization of American States announced that it would set up
its own association of parliamentarians.
Since the purpose of COPA was to link parliamentarians to the
organization of heads of state in the Americas, which will hold
a conference in Quebec City, it is only normal that the
government would want to be associated with its direct
counterpart, the OAS. It is as simple as that.
* * *
[English]
NATIONAL CHILD BENEFIT
Ms. Aileen Carroll (Barrie—Simcoe—Bradford, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, the auditor general has highlighted the importance of
ensuring government actions do what they are intended to do.
The social service ministers will be releasing a progress report
for the national child benefit in Quebec today. What steps are
being taken to ensure that the national child benefit does what
it is supposed to do, namely help Canadian families with
children?
Ms. Bonnie Brown (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Human Resources Development, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the national
child benefit goals are clear to all of us. They are to reduce
and prevent child poverty, to promote attachment to the
workforce, and to reduce overlap and duplication.
Today, as the questioner mentioned, the first report of the
national child benefit will be tabled in Quebec City. The
progress report begins to fulfil the commitment of ministers to
report regularly to the Canadian public in an open and
transparent way on this important initiative.
It is a concrete demonstration of the commitment of the
Government of Canada to the social union framework principles.
The progress report will be available to the public.
* * *
GRAIN TRANSPORTATION
Mr. Jake E. Hoeppner (Portage—Lisgar, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, the Minister of Transport is moving forward on the Estey
report toward a commercially driven grain handling transportation
system.
1145
Apparently not all of his cabinet colleagues share this
position. The Canadian Wheat Board has publicly stated that it
is opposed to the direction outlined by Justice Estey directly
contradicting the Minister of Transport.
Will the government please clarify who the wheat board minister
supports, the Canadian Wheat Board or the transport minister?
Mr. Stan Dromisky (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Transport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that
the government is very pleased with Justice Estey's vision for a
more efficient and reliable grain handling and transportation
system, including appropriate safeguards where they are required.
The Minister of Transport appointed Mr. Arthur Kroeger, a very
eminent individual, to consult with the stakeholders over the
summer of this year on the details of how a more commercial
system would work. The chairman will report back to the Minister
of Transport by September 30, 1999.
Mr. Howard Hilstrom (Selkirk—Interlake, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, the Estey report has every thing to do with farmers'
income. The Canadian Wheat Board is set up by federal
legislation but it does not represent every farmer.
The Canadian Wheat Board minister is ultimately responsible to
farmers for how it fulfils its mandate. The Canadian Wheat Board
is obstructing this progress by not going along with improvements
to this transportation system. Without the Canadian Wheat Board
being on side, Arthur Kroeger has very little chance of success.
What is the agriculture minister going to do to ensure that the
Canadian Wheat Board or the Canadian Wheat Board minister do not
obstruct badly needed improvements?
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member is behind the
times. The process that the transport minister put in place was
announced two or three days ago. The wheat board has said that
it is very willing and very much wants to be a part of that
discussion on the Estey report with all others. The wheat board
clearly said it wants to be and it will be at the table for those
discussions.
* * *
AGRICULTURE
Mr. Rick Laliberte (Churchill River, NDP): Mr. Speaker,
the damage from the farm income crisis just gets worse. In my
home province there is a suicide watch on farmers. No wonder.
They are faced with another wave of disasters: AIDA program
qualifications; continued high production costs; low commodity
prices; and the lack of a national vision on the whole farm and
our food supply. If these issues continue to be unabated we will
surely lose a generation of young farmers by mere discouragement.
Will the minister immediately call on this government to declare
a royal commission on the state of the family farm in this
country?
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we began to further address the
challenges of putting in place a farm safety net program for
Canadian farmers many months ago. Last fall as members know we
added the AIDA program to that.
I am pleased to say that in the last few days applications from
all of the provinces are coming in at a very good rate. I had a
discussion with all of my provincial counterparts yesterday. They
said that they are pleased with that, bar none, including the
minister of agriculture from Saskatchewan and the minister of
agriculture from Manitoba. They say that we will continue on
course for 1998 and continue our other discussions—
The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member for Regina—Qu'Appelle.
Hon. Lorne Nystrom (Regina—Qu'Appelle, NDP): Mr.
Speaker, on the issue AIDA, I had a call this morning from a
Saskatchewan farmer, Joe Linnell. He told me he had problems with
his AIDA forms. He called the minister's office and his staff
could not help him with the questions because they were too
complicated. They referred him to a 1-800 line in Agriculture
Canada which also could not help him.
In light of the fact that the staff could not help and
Agriculture Canada could not help, would the minister be prepared
to go out to the lobby, pick up a telephone and call Mr. Linnell
now at the following number: 306-697-2913? Mr. Linnell is
watching question period. He is waiting for his phone to ring.
Will the minister go out now and telephone him immediately? There
is time before noon.
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, unfortunately I do not have enough money
in my department for staff to personally help the farmers fill
out their forms. I do know there are lots of qualified people out
there. I would suggest that the farmer speak to his accountant.
Every farmer has an accountant. The expertise is there. If they
are enrolled in NISA, it is a very simple process to move the
numbers over.
* * *
HEALTH CARE
Mr. Charlie Power (St. John's West, PC): Mr. Speaker, the
health care system in Newfoundland and Labrador is in crisis.
Does the Minister of Health realize that there is a crisis in
Newfoundland and Labrador? If he does realize it, does he have
one single idea of how to correct this situation?
1150
Hon. Allan Rock (Minister of Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
there are tens of millions of reasons why Newfoundland is in a
better position today than it was three months ago to deal with
those health issues.
In the budget in mid-February we increased the transfers to the
provinces over the coming five years by $11.5 billion. We did
that on a per capita basis and Newfoundland will get its per
capita share.
I know that throughout the country provincial ministers of
health face real challenges in delivering quality services with
an aging population and increased costs. All health ministers
are working together now with additional money provided by our
budget to help meet those needs on the ground.
Mr. Charlie Power (St. John's West, PC): Mr. Speaker, it
is a good speech. We have heard it many times. Even if every
single Newfoundlander agreed with every single word the minister
said, the reality is that we have a crisis in Newfoundland and
Labrador.
The minister has said many times that nurses are the heart of
the health care system. In Newfoundland because we have a
significant shortage of nurses, we also have a significant crisis
in health care.
As we might say in Newfoundland, does the minister have even the
foggiest idea of how to correct this situation?
Hon. Allan Rock (Minister of Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
it is my full time job to come to grips with exactly that kind of
issue.
Let us be clear. The provincial governments are responsible for
delivering health services. The federal government transfers
money to assist them to do that.
What I am telling the hon. member is that I have a very good
idea of the challenges faced by Joan Marie Aylward. She is doing
a tremendous job facing those difficulties in Newfoundland.
We have increased the transfers to the provinces very
substantially over the coming five years with stable and higher
levels of funding. We will be there to help and to work with
provincial ministers, including in Newfoundland, but ultimately
the province must deliver those services.
* * *
PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES
Ms. Sophia Leung (Vancouver Kingsway, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
my question is for the Secretary of State for Western Economic
Diversification.
The government is committed to economic opportunities in western
Canada. Can the secretary of state tell the House what the
government is doing in western Canada to provide business and
entrepreneurial opportunities for disabled Canadians?
Hon. Ronald J. Duhamel (Secretary of State (Science, Research
and Development)(Western Economic Diversification), Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, in western rural Canada through the community futures
development corporations, the Government of Canada has provided
$6.5 million in loans. This has resulted in 319 loans and
roughly 650 jobs.
With respect to the urban areas, we are in the cities of
Edmonton and Calgary and the cities of Saskatoon, Regina and
Winnipeg with similar kinds of programs. We are looking to grow
into other cities because these programs have worked. The
Government of Canada is vitally interested in providing the
correct tools so that disabled Canadians can be—
The Deputy Speaker: The hon. member for Calgary East.
* * *
IMMIGRATION
Mr. Deepak Obhrai (Calgary East, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, the
right of landing fee is a discriminatory head tax which penalizes
genuine refugees seeking protection in Canada. It is ludicrous
to offer them financial assistance through resettlement on the
one hand and then force them to go into debt in order to pay this
head tax on the other. On October 7, 1997, I introduced a
private member's bill calling for the elimination of the right of
landing fee.
Canadians are compassionate and tolerant people. Why can this
government not learn from its citizens, show a bit of compassion
and eliminate this head tax for refugees?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I am glad that after 10 years of existence the Reform
Party has finally discovered compassion.
This government has been and continues to be a government of
compassion. We are certainly showing that by the way we are
receiving along with all Canadians the refugees from Kosovo. We
are opening our country to them. They are not paying any taxes
to come into the country as refugees. If they do not want to
return to their homes and they want to stay here, we have laws in
place to deal with that. If there are changes required, I am
sure the government will consider those changes.
* * *
[Translation]
MIRABEL AIRPORT
Mr. Paul Mercier (Terrebonne—Blainville, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
yesterday, the Government of Quebec tabled a bill making Mirabel
a tax free zone. In the meantime, the government opposite does
nothing. But we know that the Minister of National Revenue has
all kinds of spare time now that his department has been
privatized and turned into an agency.
1155
My question is for the Minister of National Revenue. It would
seem that the minister is studying the question, but what is he
waiting for to take action and do something concrete to help
Mirabel out of the mess his government has landed it in over the
last 30 years?
[English]
Hon. Harbance Singh Dhaliwal (Minister of National Revenue,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, we have had royal assent on the revenue
agency bill. It will make sure we get rid of overlap and
duplication. The members on the Bloc side bring up quite often
their wish to get rid of overlap and duplication.
A recent poll showed that more Quebeckers would rather have
Revenue Canada collect their taxes than Revenue Quebec. I think
they should be working toward reducing overlap and duplication by
signing on to the agency so they have a single window tax
collection system that would reduce compliance costs and save
Canadians millions of dollars.
* * *
PENSIONS
Mr. Pat Martin (Winnipeg Centre, NDP): Mr. Speaker, on
behalf of all pensioners of the public service, the military and
the RCMP, I want the government to clarify something. If working
people have no right to the $30 billion surplus in their own
pension, why does the pensions benefit act require a two-thirds
majority vote by all plan members on the use of any surplus in
any other pension plan in the federal sector? Why does the
government not see fit to live up to the same standards it
imposes on everybody else?
I want the government to tell pensioners once and for all how
their retirement pension fund surplus became the government's
latest cash cow.
Hon. Allan Rock (Minister of Health, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
the President of the Treasury Board has made it clear on a number
of occasions here in the House and elsewhere that these pension
plans are created by statute. They have their own particular
characteristics. The steps proposed by the government are
entirely consistent with the nature of those pension plans and
entirely fair to the members.
* * *
AGRICULTURE
Mr. Scott Brison (Kings—Hants, PC): Mr. Speaker, the
federal deputy minister of agriculture was in Nova Scotia on
Monday for a press conference with the premier to announce that
Nova Scotia was finally joining the federal farm aid deal.
Everybody was led to believe that Nova Scotia was receiving $7.5
million in new federal dollars for farmers. The provincial
minister said it was this guarantee of $7.5 million which
eventually convinced him to sign Nova Scotia on to the federal
deal.
Why did the minister of agriculture lead Nova Scotia farmers to
believe that they would receive $7.5 million in federal aid when
in fact the actual figure is $3 million less?
Hon. Lyle Vanclief (Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food,
Lib.): Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has his numbers wrong.
We treated Nova Scotia exactly the same way as we have treated
other provinces. We are giving Nova Scotia credit for provincial
programs that it has had and has already carried out in 1998 and
will in 1999. We estimate and Nova Scotia estimates it will be
in the area of $3.5 million. It is also estimated that on top of
that, there could be a further $3 million, $3.5 million or $4
million going to farmers in the province of Nova Scotia when
their applications come in. In Nova Scotia as in every other
province, the numbers being used are estimates of the total call
on the AIDA program.
* * *
WOMEN ENTREPRENEURS
Mrs. Nancy Karetak-Lindell (Nunavut, Lib.): Mr. Speaker,
small businesses led by women are increasing in importance in the
Canadian economy, however, they still face barriers to accessing
international markets.
Can the Secretary of State for the Status of Women tell the
House how the government is helping women in business access
global markets and create more opportunities for all Canadians?
Hon. Hedy Fry (Secretary of State (Multiculturalism)(Status
of Women), Lib.): Mr. Speaker, women who have businesses
created more jobs last year than the top 100 companies in Canada.
Women are becoming assets to Canada's global competitiveness.
Last year Canada led in encouraging the first ever APEC women's
ministerial meeting. Next week in Toronto the first ever
U.S.-Canada trade summit will be held. Policy issues with regard
to this problem will be discussed.
I want to congratulate the Minister for International Trade for
his outreach, his research and his initiatives in trade missions
to assist women to achieve this agenda.
* * *
NATIONAL DEFENCE
Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, while the Department of National Defence is forced to
beg, borrow or steal a boat to get our troops to Kosovo, the
government is spending $1.7 million to put huge Canada signs on
government buildings.
Access to information documents reveal the federal government's
self-promotion campaign to place giant illuminated signs on
buildings showing the government's impact on the community, as if
high taxes and high unemployment are not enough.
1200
Why can this government not get its priorities straight? Is
plastering buildings with giant signs not the wrong way to go?
Why not give overtaxed Canadians the tax relief they deserve?
Hon. Herb Gray (Deputy Prime Minister, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, we are giving Canadians tax relief in this budget. We
gave them tax relief in the last budget. We are going to
continue to give them tax relief.
At the same time, we are responding to the desire of Canadians
to have the name of their country proudly displayed. Why does
the Reform Party oppose such an obvious step to promote our
country?
* * *
[Translation]
JACQUES DUCHESNEAU
Mr. Réal Ménard (Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
yesterday, former Montreal chief of police Jacques Duchesneau
said that the federal government was backing his bid to head up
Interpol. The solicitor general, the RCMP and Interpol Canada
would provide assistance and the government would pay for his
travel.
Can the government tell us under what specific program it is
covering the cost of Mr. Duchesneau's travel, and exactly how
much money is involved?
Mr. Jacques Saada (Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General
of Canada, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, this is such an off the wall
allegation that I have no idea what to say. If the member would
agree, I will wait till the next sitting of the House to give
him an answer.
* * *
[English]
FISHERIES AND OCEANS
Mr. Peter Stoffer (Sackville—Musquodoboit Valley—Eastern
Shore, NDP): Mr. Speaker, I wish to remind the House that the
first mandate of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is to
protect fish, fish stocks and fish habitat.
Why did the DFO and the FRCC not intervene on behalf of over
2,000 lobster fishermen in Prince Edward Island and Cape Breton
to stop the exploratory licence for seismic oil and gas drilling
in the heart of lobster spawning grounds between those two areas?
Why did the DFO not do that?
Mr. Wayne Easter (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Fisheries and Oceans, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to see
that the member for Sackville—Musquodoboit Valley—Eastern Shore
shares our interest in protecting fish habitat.
The fact is that the part of the sea in question will be subject
to an environmental assessment under the direction of the
Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Board. DFO was on the
fisheries advisory committee and will be assessing it.
The member also should be informed that the Canada-Nova Scotia
Offshore Petroleum Board Fisheries Advisory Committee has
requested a six month delay. That time should be used to good
advantage by fishermen, DFO and others to ensure that the habitat
is protected.
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
[English]
SIERRA LEONE
Hon. Lloyd Axworthy (Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House to table, in both
official languages, a report which presents the results of a
fact-finding mission taken by the Special Envoy to Sierra Leone,
the hon. member for Nepean—Carleton.
I commend his initiative and commitment in putting this report
together and hope that all members will avail themselves of its
important findings.
* * *
[Translation]
GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO PETITIONS
Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, pursuant
to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table, in both
official languages, the government's response to four petitions.
* * *
[English]
COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE
FINANCE
Mr. Maurizio Bevilacqua (Vaughan—King—Aurora, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official
languages, the 18th report of the Standing Committee on Finance.
Pursuant to its order of reference of Tuesday, April 13, 1999,
your committee has considered Bill C-67, an act to amend the Bank
Act, the Winding-up and Restructuring Act and other acts relating
to financial institutions and to make consequential amendments to
other acts.
Your committee tables its report with amendments.
1205
CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION
Mr. Rey D. Pagtakhan (Winnipeg North—St. Paul, Lib.): Mr.
Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official
languages, the second report of the Standing Committee on
Citizenship and Immigration, pursuant to the order of reference
of March 1, 1999, on Bill C-63, an act respecting Canadian
citizenship.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank the members,
research staff and clerk of the committee as well as the
interpreters, the witnesses and others who assisted the committee
in its study of Bill C-63.
* * *
PETITIONS
DIVORCE ACT
Mr. Maurizio Bevilacqua (Vaughan—King—Aurora, Lib.):
Mr. Speaker, I have the pleasure to present a petition requesting
that parliament amend the Divorce Act to include a provision, as
supported by Bill C-340, regarding the right of spouses, parents
and grandparents to have access to or custody of children.
RIGHTS OF GRANDPARENTS
Mr. Mac Harb (Ottawa Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I too
have a petition signed by many constituents on behalf of
grandparents who want parliament to ask the government to amend
the Divorce Act so that it will allow grandparents to have access
to their grandchildren without having to go to court.
IMPAIRED DRIVING
Mr. Peter Adams (Peterborough, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I rise
to present a petition from citizens of Peterborough and the
surrounding area who are concerned about drinking and driving.
They point out that an average of 4.5 Canadians are killed and
125 Canadians are seriously injured every day as a result of
alcohol related accidents.
The petitioners pray that parliament immediately amend the
Criminal Code to streamline the judicial process and to provide
sanctions which better reflect the seriousness of the crime by
introducing amendments that provide for tiered penalties for
driving with a blood alcohol count above .08% and by introducing
mandatory assessment and needed treatment for offenders who are
sentenced for impaired driving.
Mr. Speaker, I wish to present another petition from citizens
who are concerned about drinking and driving. The petitioners
point out that 62% of fatally injured drinking drivers in Canada
have a blood alcohol concentration that is over double the legal
limit.
These petitioners pray that parliament immediately amend the
Criminal Code to add mobile digital breath test units to the list
of approved instruments under the Criminal Code and that police
be authorized to use passive alcohol sensors in impaired driving
enforcement.
* * *
[Translation]
QUESTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER
Mr. Peter Adams (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the
Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): I ask, Mr. Speaker,
that the remaining questions be allowed to stand.
The Deputy Speaker: Is that agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
GOVERNMENT ORDERS
[English]
CRIMINAL RECORDS ACT
The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-69, an
act to amend the Criminal Records Act and to amend another act in
consequence, be read the third time and passed.
The Deputy Speaker: When the House broke for question
period the hon. member for Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough had 11
minutes remaining in his allotted time.
Mr. Peter MacKay (Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, PC):
Mr. Speaker, as I was saying before the question period break,
what is needed in all cases involving justice where there is a
balance to be reached between the individual and the right of
society to be protected, a very delicate balance must be reached.
When it comes to the protection of children, who are least able
to protect themselves, I would suggest that in most, if not all
cases, we must tip that balance in favour of doing all that is
possible to protect children.
I mentioned earlier the case that arose in Toronto at Maple Leaf
Gardens. We are also aware from news reports of the case of
Graham James who was the former head coach of the Swift Current
Broncos. It was a much publicized case involving the position of
trust that a coach would hold and his ability to act in a
predatory way toward vulnerable young men, in this instance
hockey players.
We know as well that there are numerous instances when this
occurs and a position of trust is abused.
1210
This reinforces the importance of Bill C-69 and the ability of
agencies, coaches, teachers, volunteers, counsellors and
individuals involved in the delivery of services to children to
access information that would disclose this type of background.
One would be quick to acknowledge that it is a very sick and
twisted background.
Does Bill C-69 go far enough? The names of convicted sex
offenders in this case belong to the solicitor general and his
records. The solicitor general would have the discretion as to
whether that name and the record itself would be disclosed. The
RCMP, due to recent amendments to this bill, do not have that
discretion and I believe that is a good thing because there is an
opportunity in some instances for individual police officers to
be placed in a very uncomfortable position about whether they
should in fact release this information. They need the support
of their department, and in this case we are talking about the
solicitor general's department.
Victims of crime, individuals who have been directly affected,
including their families, are those who would be most in favour
of this bill.
The police of course were very supportive of the efforts that
were made by the hon. member for Calgary Centre. They spoke very
favourably of his efforts and were very receptive to the
government's position that it took in incorporating those
suggestions into the bill which is before the House.
With respect to citizens in communities, I have seen instances
where citizens have taken steps of their own. They have posted
notices around the neighbourhood when they were aware of an
individual who had been engaged in this despicable exploitation
of children and yet the agencies were not able to make public
that person's past.
We hope that this bill will, in some way, remedy that situation
in terms of disclosure, public knowledge and, ultimately,
protection. Knowledge will protect people affected by sex
offenders living in their community.
One concern that a person might have is about the bureaucracy
that often surrounds the implementation of an exercise such as
this. The solicitor general could gain possession of records
only through a written request to the prison commissioner if the
subject of the records had already given written consent.
For police investigating a sex crime, the same type of rule
would apply. They would have to rely on the commissioner to make
a notation; in other words, to flag a certain record that would
allow the police to then access the information. Yet a police
force or other authorized body may also request the commissioner
to provide the minister with any record of the conviction of that
applicant and the commissioner may then transmit the record to
the minister.
With more work now being placed in the hands of the already
overworked and underfunded police forces around the country there
is some concern as to how they will handle this additional
workload.
We have seen similar government bills, such as the youth
criminal justice act, where greater responsibility and emphasis
will be placed on the police in the exercise of their front line
authority, but there will be no additional resources. This is
something about which we have to be sensitive. Hopefully the
government will also be sensitive to it when it is looking at
next year's budgets and the money that will be allotted to the
police.
It is not enough to give them the tools, legislative
initiatives, changes to the Criminal Code and changes to the
Criminal Records Act without giving them the accompanying funding
that will allow them to use effectively these law enforcement
tools.
Others who might request the information that is covered by Bill
C-69 would be members of organizations, possibly for the
well-being of children. Examples might include a parent who
would like to find out about a child's hockey coach, a teacher or
a kindergarten supervisor. Associations like the Pictou County
Minor Hockey Association, the Antigonish Minor Hockey
Association, Big Brothers or Big Sisters would be able to access
information about employees or volunteers who were in or were
attempting to enter those organizations. This is relevant,
prevalent information that should be in their hands.
There has been discussion about the rights of the sex offenders
themselves. I will be the first to acknowledge that there has to
be some degree of respect for any person who has very damaging
information such as this on their record, particularly when it is
extremely dated.
1215
Once again we are into the argument of balance. I would suggest
that any indication this information would be withheld or kept
completely private would certainly be outweighed by the need to
protect the public and the need to protect children in this
instance.
I support the bill fully. I know the bill hinges upon passage
quickly through this place. This is a process with which you are
intimately familiar, Mr. Speaker. It often takes a long time.
Bills coming through the justice department and the solicitor
general's departments are coming in some instances in a very slow
and grinding fashion. We saw that particularly with the youth
criminal justice act. However, with the unanimous support we
have seen for the bill and the importance that has been place
upon it, there is hope of its speedy passage through the House.
The protection of the community has to be given the highest
order when it comes to bills of this nature. There is ample
support not only in this place but around the country for having
the bill firmly ensconced in our Criminal Code and in our
criminal justice act.
It is with pride that I lend support to the government's
initiative. Again much of the impetus and credit for the bill is
to be bestowed upon the member for Calgary Centre. He worked
very diligently in bringing the matter forward to this point. He
was very active in the justice committee in having it brought to
fruition and is to be commended for it.
Bill C-69 will certainly lead to a more stringent offender
registry. I have serious concerns, and the Progressive
Conservative Party repeatedly expresses its concerns, about the
already overburdened Canadian Police Information Centre and the
computer system that houses the information such as the DNA
databank, the criminal registry, the DNA registry and the
ill-founded gun registry that is set up to fail. All these
current computer information systems are embodied in one system
that is extremely strapped at this time.
The minister has announced a $150 million addition in funding
for the computer system, but conservative estimates from the
police indicate that it is simply insufficient. It is not half
of what is actually needed to make the system operate
efficiently.
Bill C-69 will receive the support of the Progressive
Conservative Party. It is the hope of our party that those who
prey upon children and have been caught and those whose names
have been recorded in our criminal justice system will not now be
able to point to a pardon as a means to protect themselves from
having that information disclosed to those who need it most.
Sadly, we will never be in a position to ensure that children are
not vulnerable in certain instances, but the bill goes some
distance to achieving that very laudable goal.
I commend all those involved in the production of the bill,
those involved in the drafting, and particularly those who
testified and had great input into the bill reaching this point.
The PC Party will be supporting the bill. We look forward to its
passage and seeing it become a legislative initiative.
The Deputy Speaker: Is the House ready for the question?
Some hon. members: Question.
The Deputy Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt
the motion?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
(Motion agreed to, bill read the third time and passed)
* * *
1220
CARRIAGE BY AIR ACT
Hon. Stéphane Dion (for the Minister of Transport) moved
that Bill S-23, an act to amend the Carriage by Air Act to give
effect to a protocol to amend the convention for the unification
of certain rules relating to international carriage by air and to
give effect to the convention, supplementary to the Warsaw
convention, for the unification of certain rules relating to
international carriage by air performed by a person other than
the contracting carrier, be read the second time and referred to
a committee.
Mr. Mauril Bélanger: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of
order, and if it is out of order I am sure you will tell me. I
was hoping that you would seek unanimous consent, and I expect
you would find it, to deal with all stages of Bill C-64 at the
report stage and third reading without debate. Would you seek
unanimous consent to do that before we proceed with Bill S-23?
The Deputy Speaker: Is there unanimous consent to proceed
with Bill C-64 at all stages now?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
An hon. member: No.
The Deputy Speaker: We will proceed then with the
consideration of Bill S-23.
Mr. Stan Dromisky (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of
Transport, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I am certainly very pleased to
rise today to bring to the attention of my hon. colleagues the
short but very important Bill S-23 which was considered and
passed by the Senate earlier in March.
My hon. colleagues will recall that parliament recently dealt
with legislation pertaining to marine liability in the form of
Bill S-4. With the introduction of Bill S-23, we are proposing
to move in the area of air carrier liability.
Bill S-23 amends the Carriage by Air Act so that Canada can join
other states in legally recognizing two major international
instruments dealing with matters relating to air carrier
liability such as Montreal Protocol No. 4 which relates to cargo
and the Guadalajara convention which clarifies the coverage of
the Warsaw convention.
These two documents update and modernize elements of the Warsaw
convention, which sets out the legal rights and responsibilities
of the carrier, passengers and shippers in relation to
international air transportation. They will be annexed to the
legislation as schedules IV and V.
The Carriage by Air Act was first enacted in 1947 to give the
federal government the authority to have Canada accede to the
Warsaw convention, which had been signed in 1929.
The act was amended in 1963 to authorize the federal government
to implement The Hague protocol, which amended and updated the
Warsaw convention to take into account the evolution in the
requirements of airline carriage in the 25 years following its
signature.
What we are seeking with this bill is essentially the same as in
1963: additions to the Carriage by Air Act which will enhance
and clarify air carrier liability coverage and simplify
documentary requirements.
The unification of law relating to the international carriage by
air, in particular the unification of law relating to liability,
has been of vital importance for the harmonious management of
international air transport. Without such unification, complex
conflicts of laws would arise and the settlement of claims would
be unpredictable, very costly, time consuming, and possibly
uninsurable. Furthermore, conflicts of jurisdiction could arise
which would further aggravate the settlement of liability claims.
This uniformity remains a significant contributor to the
facilitation of international air transportation in that the
conditions for the carriage of passengers, baggage and cargo are
to a large degree similar on international flights.
In this regard the Warsaw convention has been hailed and
recognized as the one international private law conventions that
has managed to unify the legal systems of some 140 states party
to it.
However, on the international scene it has long been recognized
that the 1929 Warsaw convention requires change to modernize it
so as to provide a wider mandated protection for passengers, for
carriers and for shippers. Montreal Protocol No. 4 and the
Guadalajara convention were developed to do just that.
Montreal Protocol No. 4 amends the liability regime as it
applies to cargo by providing stricter carrier liability and
establishing unbreakable limits.
It also simplifies the cargo documentation requirements and
authorizes the electronic transmission of information. This
transmission of cargo information, using means other than the
traditional multicopy air waybill, can provide significant cost
savings to carriers and to shippers.
1225
It has become extremely important that Canada act quickly to
accede to this protocol as it came into effect in June 1998 when
the minimum number of 30 states had ratified it. More
specifically, the protocol was ratified by the United States in
late 1998 and came into effect in that country on March 4 of this
year.
This means that until Canada has been able to deposit its own
ratification documents and the protocol has come into effect in
Canada, our carriers and our shippers will be at a competitive
disadvantage vis-à-vis their U.S. counterparts.
The Guadalajara convention clarifies the relationship between
passengers and shippers on the one hand and carriers on the
other. The convention extends the rules of the Warsaw liability
regime to the carrier actually performing the carriage when it is
not the same as the carrier with which the passenger or shipper
has contracted.
This sharing of the liability between contracting and operating
carrier, when they are not the same, has become increasingly
important as international carriers, such as both Air Canada and
Canadian Airlines, joined together in global commercial
alliances.
Extensive consultations were conducted by Transport Canada. It
was determined that both Montreal Protocol No. 4 and the
Guadalajara convention have the unanimous support of the Canadian
aviation industry as well as all the aviation related
organizations in Canada.
Notably, the airlines are very anxious for Canada to act
quickly, particularly now that Montreal Protocol No. 4 is in
force and applies in many countries.
In addition to industry consultations, 23 federal departments
and agencies were consulted, including justice, finance, foreign
affairs, national defence and the Canadian Transportation Agency.
All departments expressed support for or raised absolutely no
concerns regarding the adoption by Canada of these two very
important instruments.
It is imperative, hon. members, that we ensure that Canadian
carriers, travellers and shippers have the benefit of an
international legal regime that better reflects the realities of
today's aviation industry.
I believe we should move quickly to adopt this short but
extremely important bill. To delay would be to increase the
length of time our carriers will be at a competitive
disadvantage.
Mr. Bill Gilmour (Nanaimo—Alberni, Ref.): Mr. Speaker,
the Reform Party basically agrees with the bill. It is very
technical. As the parliamentary secretary stated, the amendments
will implement the Montreal Protocol No. 4 of 1975 and the
Guadalajara supplementary convention, 1961.
The international agreements amend and supplement respectively
the Warsaw convention of 1929 and the unification of certain
rules relating to international carriage by air of 1955, which
are part of Canada's Carriage by Air Act. The 1929 and 1955
agreements establish documentary requirements and liability
regimes for international air transportation.
As I said initially, this is a fairly technical bill and, in
some ways, a housekeeping bill. The Reform Party agrees with its
implementation, but we strongly disagree with the method by which
it arrived in the House. It came from the Senate.
All of us in the House account to our constituents. At the next
election, they will tell us whether they agree or disagree with
us. That is democracy. This is the House that the bill should
have come from, not the Senate. The Senate is unaccountable and
not representative. In our view, all bills should originate in
the lower House and then go on to the Senate.
To summarize, we agree with the bill but we strongly disagree
with the method and the route by which the bill has arrived in
the House.
1230
[Translation]
Mr. Michel Guimond
(Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île-d'Orléans, BQ): Mr. Speaker,
the name of my riding is quite long, but it truly represents the
many sub-regions I have the honour to represent here, in Ottawa,
since 1993.
I have 40 minutes to speak on this issue pursuant to
parliamentary procedure, but since it is Friday afternoon, I
know that many of my hon. colleagues are looking forward to
heading back to their ridings.
I must point out that, even if parliament is not sitting next
week, unlike what many people might suggest, members of
parliament will not be on holiday. We will be in recess. I want
to make a non-partisan comment. I believe that, next week, none
of my 301 colleagues in this House will be on holiday. We all
have work waiting for us at our riding offices, people to meet
and companies to visit.
Unfortunately, some reporters are suggesting that members of
parliament will take some time off. The people close to members
of parliament know that, yes, we do take some time off
sometimes, because we are human after all. But next week, from
May 17 to 24, the 301 members of parliament will not be on
holiday. We will be in recess and working in our respective
ridings.
I wanted to make this non-partisan comment because of the great
respect I have for the House of Commons as a parliamentary
institution.
The rules of procedure allow me to speak for 40 minutes, but I
will not use all the time I am allowed, especially since, as my
Reform colleague rightly pointed out earlier, Bill S-23 is mostly
a technical bill aimed at implementing two international
conventions. One can hardly be against this type of bill.
However, like the Reform member, I too want to deplore the fact
that the government has chosen, once again, to let this bill be
brought in through the other house, the name of which I cannot
mention. Members know that the Senate cannot be mentioned by
name in the House, and that is why I must refer to it as the
other house.
The government has 155 elected members, which is a majority.
Since it was elected to govern, it could very well have
introduced this bill through the usual channel. What is
disturbing to opposition members is that, if one reads Hansard
from the years 1984 to 1993, it shows that the Liberals
criticized the Conservative government of Brian Mulroney for
using such a procedure. Now that they are in office, they are
doing exactly the same thing.
That is why the members of the Bloc Quebecois had the
opportunity to say during the campaigns leading to the 1993 and
the June 2, 1997 elections—and we will have the opportunity to
say it again during the next election campaign—that Liberals and
Conservatives are all the same. When they sit in opposition,
they criticize the government, and when they take office, they
act in the exact same way as the government they criticized.
1235
It is disturbing to see that the government has chosen to
introduce this bill in a house made up of non-elected members.
I want to underline the terrific work being done by my hon.
colleague from Regina—Qu'Appelle and by the Liberal member from
Sarnia—Lambton, who are campaigning to have the Senate abolished.
Through their work, they want to ensure that the decisions are
taken by democratically elected parliamentarians.
As far as we MPs are concerned, the people can replace us every
four or five years. We are not appointed for partisan or
political reasons or because we are government cronies.
We often hear about former ministers in the National Assembly
who were appointed to the Senate by the current Prime Minister
and who are receiving their pension from the National Assembly.
We could also mention Ross Fitzpatrick, the Liberal bagman from
western Canada, who was appointed to the Senate by the current
Prime Minister and who sits on the board of directors of
Canadian Airlines and is lobbying for this company. We could
come up with many more names like these.
We could talk about people who were appointed under the Mulroney
government, like Senator Pierre Claude Nolin, the chief
Conservative organizer in Quebec during the 1988 election
campaign, who was appointed to the Senate at age 39.
My point here is simply to raise public awareness and make you
realize, Mr. Speaker, as I am sure you are by now, given the way
you seem to be hanging on to my every word, that we will be asking
the government in the future to continue to use—
Mr. Mac Harb: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.
I am sure it was not my colleague's intention to name the other
place. Usually members do not name the other place in this
House because both Houses are different from one another.
Mr. Michel Guimond: Mr. Speaker, to respond to the point of
order raised by the member who interrupted me, I will say that I
have been talking about the other House since the beginning of
my speech. I did not say the other place. I am being careful not
to mention the Senate by name. I have been talking about the
other House, but we will not get into this any further.
[English]
Mr. Mac Harb: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. My
colleague knows full well that he is not supposed to mention the
Senate in the House. If he wants to say the other place that is
fine, but he should not name it by name. The member knows that.
[Translation]
Mr. Michel Guimond: Mr. Speaker, this bill is aimed at giving
effect, in Canadian law, to international treaties ratified by
Canada. To do so, this bill amends the Carriage by Air Act to
implement the Montreal Protocol No. 4 and the Guadalajara
Supplementary Convention.
These two international agreements amend and supplement the
Warsaw Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules Relating
to International Carriage by Air, which establishes the
documentary requirements and liability regime for international
air transportation.
Montreal Protocol No. 4 simplifies cargo documentation,
authorizes its transmission by electronic means, and amends the
cargo liability regime. The Guadalajara Supplementary Convention
extends the rules of the Warsaw Convention to carriage performed
by a carrier other than the one with whom the passenger or
shipper entered into a contract.
I agree, this topic is quite dry and technical.
1240
I find it regrettable that the leader of the government is
eating an apple in this House. We are not allowed to name the
Senate, but what about eating apples in the House? The member
for Glengarry—Prescott—Russell is eating an apple.
I would not want to show disrespect for this member. We can see
he is looking after his health, and finds it important to eat
apples. I would have preferred him not to do so here in this
House, for a degree of decorum is required.
In conclusion, Montreal Protocol No. 4, which came into force in
June of 1998, took effect in the United States last March 4. In
other words, until Canada implements it, American carriers and
shippers have an advantage over their Canadian competitors,
because they can use the electronic transmission of air waybills
for cargo, which is far less costly.
This means that countries applying these international
conventions will have a certain advantage over those that do
not. This is, therefore, a bill which is in the interests of
Canada and Quebec, and one which represents a needed change as
commercial exchanges continue to grow.
We would like to point out that these agreements were signed
under the auspices of the Montreal based International Civil
Aviation Organization.
For all these reasons our party supports this bill, and
encourages the government to see that it is passed as quickly as
possible, if this can be done.
[English]
Hon. Lorne Nystrom (Regina—Qu'Appelle, NDP): Mr.
Speaker, at the outset I want to say that I am splitting my time
with the hon. member for Churchill River.
This bill is called Bill S-23. For people watching today, bills
come here called C which means Commons. Some are called
S which means they originated in the Senate rather than the
House of Commons.
I object to having a bill originating in what we call the other
place. The other place is not elected, it is not democratic and
it is not accountable to the Canadian people.
I see the minister, who is the government House leader across
the way, hanging on to the curtain in the back. I would like to
know from him why more and more bills are originating in the
other place. I can see him shaking his head but I cannot hear
what he is saying. Now he is scurrying out the back door.
The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): I do not wish to
interrupt but it would certainly not be fair to suggest that the
government House leader was scurrying out. He is making a very
dignified exit.
Hon. Lorne Nystrom: He did not scurry or crawl but
he did make an exit. Maybe he will come back in again after he
has a bowl of soup or something.
I want to raise this very serious question because this bill
originated in the other place. In the last poll I have seen, the
other place has the support of about 5% of the Canadian people.
Five per cent of the Canadian people support the existing Senate,
support the structure of the other place.
There is a great debate in the country as to whether or not it
should be abolished or reformed. Of the remaining 95% of the
Canadian people, they are roughly divided equally between
reforming the other place and electing it in some way, and just
abolishing it and getting rid of it. That is the debate.
It seems very strange that the government across the way would
originate a bill in a place that is not elected, not accountable
and has the support of 5% of the Canadian people. I do not know
another democracy in the world that would legitimize the other
place by originating a bill in the other place when it is not
elected.
We are not talking about a board, or a commission or an agency.
We are talking about a legislative body that can initiate
legislation to change the laws of the country. I think that is a
serious democratic issue in a modern-day parliamentary democracy.
Mr. Speaker, I see you sitting in your chair looking pretty sad
yourself when you start reflecting on the state of democracy in
the country. I am also pretty sad to see the government doing
this time and time again.
The Canadian people do not support that institution.
Ninety-five per cent of Canadians are saying that they do not
support the existing institution of the Senate.
Yet the government time and time again will go there to initiate
legislation. That is fundamentally wrong. I would like to see
government members stand up and defend why they do this.
1245
There is one minister in the House now who is listening very
carefully to this debate. We have time this afternoon for him to
get up and respond as to why they insist on doing this. The time
has come for us to have a serious debate about electoral and
parliamentary democracy and how to make this institution more
meaningful.
I knew the government House leader many years ago. I remember
in 1968 when I was first elected he was working in the House. The
turnout in that election campaign was about 80% of the
population. In the last election campaign it went down to about
67%. More and more people are giving up on the electoral system.
They are losing confidence in the electoral system. More and
more people are cynical of politicians and the political process.
One reason is that we have a legislative body that initiates
legislation. It is not elected, not accountable and not
democratic. We cannot get back at those people. If a Reform
member from British Columbia or an NDP member from Regina does
something people do not like, every three, four or five years the
people can say no. I experienced that in 1993 when I lost the
seat of Yorkton—Melville in Saskatchewan.
What can we do about a senator? There is nothing that can be
done about someone in the other place, short of their being
convicted for some serious criminal activity and being forced out
by their colleagues. There was one who was living in Mexico for
a long period of time. He had to resign under the pressure of
public opinion. Short of that, there is no way of holding those
people accountable and keeping their feet to the fire.
There are members in the other place who do not live in their
home provinces and hardly ever go back to them. They do not go
to meet their people. Some of them have even lived outside of
the country. They draw a salary and expenses roughly equivalent
to those of a member of parliament. They travel the world.
People think they are like American senators so the red carpet is
rolled out for them. That is the kind of institution we
tolerate. We spend $50 million a year of taxpayers' money funding
the other place.
Think of the homeless people under a bridge a few blocks from
Parliament Hill who could use a few thousand dollars for public
housing. Think of the money we could put into training and
skills to put people to work. Think of the farmers we talked
about in question period today who are now on a suicide watch
because they do not have money to pay their bills. Yet we pay
those people in the other place, who have no obligations
whatsoever in terms of accountability, $50 million. And the
government across the way initiates legislation in the other
place.
I hope the government House leader will rise to his feet and
explain to us how in the name of modern democracy he can tolerate
such a situation. I can say that the Canadian people do not
tolerate it. Only 5% of them support the other place, yet we
have a government that ignores the wishes of 95% of the Canadian
people. My oh my, once in power how they change their minds and
how they change their hearts.
I hope the minister across the way will answer the questions on
behalf of the people of this country.
Mr. Jay Hill (Prince George—Peace River, Ref.): Mr.
Speaker, I listened very intently to the words of my hon.
colleague.
I think that everyone in Canada, certainly everyone in this
place, is well aware that our two parties share the same
sentiment toward the inappropriateness of the present structure
of the other place. Where we differ is that my hon. colleague's
party chooses to support the abolishment of the senate, while the
Reform Party of Canada supports a triple E senate. I wear the
triple E pin very proudly. I still support the concept that we
need an equal, effective and elected senate.
I agree with my hon. colleague that the vast majority of
Canadians do not believe the Senate as it is presently structured
serves any useful purpose. It is a patronage haven for the old
parties. With the dictatorial system we have in the House and
the way in which the present government operates by ramming
through legislation with closure, I ask my colleague how would we
have a check and balance without having an elected, effective and
regional Senate?
1250
Hon. Lorne Nystrom: Mr. Speaker, I do not believe the
triple E idea is ever going to happen. We would need an amendment
to the Constitution and the unanimous consent of all provinces
along with the federal parliament in order to do that. I do not
think we are ever going to get Quebec to agree to have the same
number of senators as Prince Edward Island, let alone Ontario
having the same number of senators as New Brunswick. If we did
get that agreement the powers would be so weak and ineffective it
would not matter if we had a Senate in the first place. It comes
right down to the fact that this is never going to happen.
I do not think we need a second elected body in terms of
bureaucracy and the many more politicians who would be funded.
The amount involved would be greater than the $50 million we see
today. This would invite gridlock between the two Houses.
In answer to the member's question, we need to bring
accountability into the House of Commons. We need to bring the
review process into the House of Commons by reforming and
democratizing this place.
The powers of the Prime Minister's Office and the Privy Council
Office have to be reduced. These questions were raised in the
House today by the Reform Party and I certainly agree. The
appointment of justices and the appointment of senior people in
the government should have a parliamentary and democratic review
as is done in most countries around the world.
Our parliamentary committees should be stronger and have more
independence where legislation can be initiated. We should have
fewer confidence votes in the House of Commons. All kinds of
bills go through this place that should not be confidence bills.
Parliamentarians should be able to vote their own line and
express their own point of view. That should be done.
I also believe that we should have fixed election dates, fixed
dates for budgets and fixed dates for throne speeches. This would
again take power away from the government and away from the Prime
Minister and the executive.
Why do I say that? I say it because we need big democracy in
this country. There have only been two elections since 1921
where a majority of the people voted for a majority government
and those were the governments of Mackenzie King in 1945 and John
Diefenbaker in 1958. Every other time a majority has been
elected by a minority of the people. This Liberal government has
the support of 38% of the Canadian people, yet it has had a
majority for five years. I think that is wrong without
accountability built into this place.
We should be looking at modernizing our electoral system by
bringing in a mix of proportional representation so the vote of
the people is reflected by the composition of the House. We are
now one of only two or three countries in the world without a mix
of PR. We are not a modern electoral democracy and the minister
across the way knows this.
Even Britain, the mother of parliaments, has a mix of PR in the
Scottish assembly and the Welsh assembly. In the election after
the next, it will be brought into the United Kingdom parliament
itself. There is an election taking place now for the European
parliament where every member from Great Britain is being elected
through PR, through regional constituencies.
Those are things which we should be looking at. Every other
country in the world has modernized its electoral system. We can
do it in Canada as well.
Mr. Rick Laliberte (Churchill River, NDP): Mr. Speaker,
Bill S-23 is an act to amend the Carriage by Air Act. There are
opportunities to improve air transportation in this country and
not only by this act. I will put forward a challenge on this in a
very short while.
Air transportation in this country has evolved to become a major
component of our way of life and the way we do our business. We
will all be travelling back to our constituencies during the
upcoming recess and a vast majority of us will depend upon air
transportation to get us home.
Air is the only form of transportation to access communities in
certain regions of this vast country of ours. Air transportation
moves the basic necessities of life such as food and other cargo
into isolated and remote areas. These isolated and remote areas
depend upon good service from air carriers, but if these services
are not available, then good sound legislation is of utmost
importance.
The modernizing of our Carriage by Air Act is long overdue. The
last update was in 1964, almost 40 years ago. There has been a
lot of developments in the air transportation industry since
then. There has hardly been any development on the issue of a
passengers bill of rights.
1255
In the old bills, and it was adopted in this one, only $35 could
be assured for luggage and cargo loss. I had not realized this
until I read the bill. A few years ago I had a carry on bag with
sound equipment and photography equipment in it. Somebody walked
off with it at the next stopover. When we arrived at our
destination, my bag was missing. I had $1,300 of equipment
missing and the offer made to me was $35. I could never figure
out where the $35 came from. It comes from the Guadalajara
convention of 1961.
There are international agreements that bind our nations, such
as the 1988 Montreal protocol. All Canada is doing with Bill
S-23 is modernizing and updating it to its international
standards.
The challenge I want to place before the House and the
government is that we have a Canadian passengers bill of rights.
We hear of recent developments on the news and in the media
about the Americans. Our neighbours to the south are just as
dependent on air transportation as we are, going between the east
and west coasts. In the Swissair disaster, the victims' families
were protected under the American passengers bill of rights.
We wonder what kind of protection we have as passengers, and
what protection our families have, when looking at disasters that
have hit our airports and airlines in recent years. Our
situation forces us to use air transportation. Other situations
loom before us in terms of a passengers bill of rights.
A snowstorm hit eastern Canada this past winter. Passengers
were inconvenienced and left stranded in Canadian airports.
Toronto was a prime example. Passengers were the last to know of
any developments in the weather or decisions being made by the
air carriers regarding the rescheduling of flights or
arrangements for overnight accommodation. We saw pictures of
passengers sleeping on benches in the airports. There were
stories of lost cargo and luggage. This is a challenge for the
government to look at a sound and safe passenger bill of rights.
A new territory was born on April 1. We hear stories that the
entire territory does not have any highways to connect any of its
communities unless it is winter travel by snow machine or dog
team. They depend on air transportation.
The primary air transportation responsibility is highlighted in
this bill. People switch from one airline to another. They may
end up on six different airlines to reach their destination
because of the huge explosion of other air transportation systems
after deregulation of air transportation in the country.
We have to look at protection and who is responsible. It is
highlighted in the bill that the primary air carrier will be
responsible for passengers rights, whatever limited rights there
are in the act. It does not matter whether passengers transfer
flights. As long as the first air carrier on the ticket is
listed, that is who is responsible for the passengers rights.
We support Bill S-23 and the updating of the Carriage by Air
Act. It is an international standard act. I must repeat that we
need a Canadian bill of rights for passengers, for our citizens
and for visitors whom we wholeheartedly welcome into the country,
as we just recently did with the Kosovar refugees. Tourists drive
the economy of many regions of the country, especially during the
spring and summer.
I wish everyone safe travel this weekend. I welcome and wish all
passengers and refugees who have come to our country safe travel.
1300
Mr. Charlie Power (St. John's West, PC): Mr. Speaker, on
behalf of our transportation critic from Cumberland—Colchester I
will take a few moments to speak to Bill S-23, which we will be
supporting. Like the member who just spoke, I would like to see
discussion on some other things, such as a Canadian bill of
rights for passengers.
The region of Canada I come from is Newfoundland and Labrador. I
would love to get a chance to discuss in the House the cost of
airfare in this country, in particular the cost of regional
airfare. The cost of airfare in Newfoundland is a significant
prohibiter to travel. There are significant problems for the
tourism industry. For many individuals who have to travel on
crisis calls, the regional costs of airfare are absolutely
shameful. Someday we may get a chance to discuss these issues in
the House.
Today I will read a few notes on behalf of our critic which
address Bill S-23. It is a bill regarding air transport that
ratifies amendments to the Warsaw convention on international
carriage by air. More specifically, Bill S-23 takes the form of
amendments to the Carriage by Air Act by implementing Montreal
Protocol No. 4 and the Guadalajara supplementary convention.
The Warsaw convention was signed in 1929. It assigns liability
to the air carrier and provides for maximum liability in the
event of death or injury of a passenger and loss of baggage or
freight. In addition, the convention authorizes the passenger or
shipper to enter into a contract in order to improve the terms of
that liability.
Canada gave effect to the Warsaw convention in June 1947 by
passing the Carriage by Air Act. This act has been amended from
time to time to reflect new international agreements relating to
the conduct of the international airline industry. The Montreal
Protocol and the Guadalajara convention are the most recent of
these new international agreements and parliament has been asked
to ratify them through this piece of legislation which is now
before the House of Commons.
Bill S-23 makes some housekeeping amendments to the Carriage by
Air Act. Clarity is provided through definitions at the
beginning of the act. The text, in keeping with modern
legislative practice, has been rendered gender neutral, and a
formula is provided for the establishment of international
currency conversions. The Montreal Protocol and the Guadalajara
convention are dealt with in schedules IV and V and are referred
to accordingly in this act.
Montreal Protocol No. 4 amends the liability regime for cargo
with stricter carrier liability and with maximum limits. It
provides that a carrier is liable for damages to cargo to the
limits of the liability but only after those damages have been
established. As a result, the carrier cannot escape liability by
taking all necessary precautions and cannot be assessed damages
beyond the maximum limit even in the event of gross negligence.
This protocol, signed in 1975, only came into effect in 1998
when the requisite number of 30 states had deposited their
instruments of ratification. This protocol came into effect in
the United States in March of this year and thus puts U.S.
carriers at a competitive advantage over Canadian carriers. It
is therefore imperative that Canada ratify this protocol as soon
as possible so that our air carriers can remain competitive in
what is an increasingly competitive industry.
The Guadalajara convention in schedule V was first signed in
1961. It clarifies the relationship between passengers and
shippers on the one hand and air carriers on the other. It is
already widely in force and it clarifies the application of the
Warsaw convention to situations where the contract of carriage
was made by a carrier that did not actually perform some or all
of the carriage by air. In short, it distinguishes between the
contracting company and the carrier actually performing the
carriage and sets out varying liabilities for each. This fills a
gap that results from modern practice where one airline issues
the ticket and another airline does all or part of the actual
flight in question.
The Warsaw convention is thus made to apply to the contracting
carrier throughout the journey and to the actual carrier during
those parts of the journey that it actually carries. A claimant
may sue either, but the aggregate of damages is limited to the
amounts established by the Warsaw convention.
1305
Bill S-23 enjoys the support of the Air Transport Association of
Canada, a body representing all of the major airlines and many of
the cargo operators, regional carriers and small airlines as
well. The industry regards this legislation as long overdue and
essential for the modernization and commercial viability of
Canadian commercial aviation.
In conclusion, the PC Party supports the bill and urges its
quick passage.
The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): Is the House ready
for the question?
Some hon. members: Question.
The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): Is it the pleasure of
the House to adopt the motion?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
(Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and referred to
a committee)
Mr. Mauril Bélanger: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of
order. I would be remiss if I did not try asking you again to
seek unanimous consent, which I thought we had, to deal with the
report stage and third reading of Bill C-64, without debate, to
dispose of it. Will you seek unanimous consent to do that?
The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): Is there unanimous
consent to proceed as indicated by the parliamentary secretary?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
Some hon. members: No.
Hon. Don Boudria: Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of
order. I think you would find consent to call it 2.30 p.m.
The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): The government House
leader has moved that the Chair see the clock as being 2.30 p.m.
Does the House give its consent?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland): It being 2.30 p.m.,
pursuant to order made on Wednesday, May 12, 1999, the House
stands adjourned until Tuesday, May 25, 1999 at 11 a.m.
(The House adjourned at 1.07 p.m.)