Your View

The question that gets me is the fact that Palestinian refugees have been living in camps in Lebanon and Jordan for decades. How many of these people actually would chose to return to the land owned by their parents or grandparents is given the 'right of return'?

Or would they prefer to be normalized as Jordanian or Lebanese citizens. After all, there is no historic distinction, language barrier etc between a Jordanian and a Palestinian, both are Arab descendents of the British mandate, and a fairly arbitrary division of land, are they not?

I think if the Palestinian negotiators could concede the right of return, Israel would be able to make concessions of its own, however, many rulers in the area seem to keep the refugee camps going in order to point to the Palestinian problem.

Democracy is the dictatorship of law...

Want to solve the problem ? Bring back carpet bombing and occupation wars.

Strike hard enough so that your opponent never stands again. Then occupy the land, abolish your enemy's cultural and political influence. Then you shall have your peace.

This goes for both parties involved, get it over with....

Wars dont determine who is right or wrong, simply who is left standing.... The "middle-east" region needs closure on way or the other.

As far as the summit goes... Nothing tangible will come from it. Excuses again without results. Waste of time.

These long drawn out posts that are coming in are pure and simple dribble. Most of the people commenting have no idea what they are talking about.

And I had no idea that most Canadians were such babblers. Look, you all can babble your brains out but the bottom line is that there will "never" be peace in the middle east and most counties will always disagree and be a odds. There is no answer to this age old problem so stop trying to come up with one.

I dont believe these peace talks will lead to any lasting solution.

I'm afraid that without some very brave leaders on both sides who are willing to compromise and take firm action, there will never be peace.

American Administrations will continue to supply arms to the Isrealis and Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran will continue to want the extinction of the Isrealis.

Memories of massacres in refugee camps and memories of suicide bombers will take generations to forget.

There has to be a starting point and I dont believe the current leaders have the courage to initiate that process.

I was not directing it at you, Michele. I was commenting on the general tone of the posts and how little consensus is achieved here and how unrealistic it is to expect consensus there.

People come armed with their preconceived notions and a stubborn refusal to give them up. Sounds just like the middle east. Its human nature. Hence, my pessimism regarding the chance for peaceful change there.

And yes, I was obviously lumping myself in with the other 'nut-jobs' - it was meant to be humorous. A jibe at myself as much as others.

Here, here, Michele. Couldn't of said it all better myself.
And as an aside, the reason I am adding my 2 cents worth, is that I am watching CNN, discussing this meeting a few minutes ago. The correspondent stated that America/Bush 'will be trying to establish anti-Iranian support among Arab leaders.

I couldn't believe my ears! (Is that the real reason Bush asked for this meeting?)
So he has a 'coalition of the willing' to attack Iran?, as many seem to think he is preparing to do (with no options off the table ie nuclear included, which he recently alluded to)

Anyway, just the latest news flash.
Peace in the Middle East anyone?

With Saudi's only there to support their Arab brothers, I don't see much of a chance for success.

I will give credit to George Bush for the first time in a long time. Getting everyone together to talk is a great step. This would be much better then throwing bombs at each other.

If lasting peace was to come out of this, George would end up going down in history as the best US President. Kind of laughable but true.

Frank, I assume your post refers to me so I will respond.
I never said Bush 'started this problem'; but I do believe an honest broker needs to be impartial (my previous post points out that I don't believe the U.S. is) I will defend my posts any time But PLEASE do not put words in my mouth.

"I love this topic, brings out the nuts..." You must be one, since this topic 'brought you out'.
No really Frank who is 'a nut job'; some one who does not agree with you?

It would be nice if you could post your comments without resorting to name calling. When you use these tactics it shows you don't have enough knowledge of the issue and have to resort to 'emotional debate'.

Allan, Kamloops

"so perhaps I'm on the wrong side of this debate or something".

Well Allan, as per your usual weird mantra of anti-Bush, anti-Harper, anti-Christian, blame the West for everything, conspiracy theories combined with your usual inacurrate facts (such as the comments you made on this subject), the answer to your above statement is...Yes, as usual.

People used to understand the well defined distinction between republicanism and democracy.

In more recent times however, they do not. Maybe it's that killing foreigners for our "democracy" sounds better then for our "republic"?

On another note, the U.S. does not want another country smuggling weapons into Iraq to be used against the U.S. army but sees no problem suppling Israel with weapons?

Jeff Wilson, it seems I touch a nerve with you.

All I have done is point out FACTS (something your post seems to lack) about how America 'acts' around the world. I try to keep the emotions out of it and look at facts, rationally.

I am not influenced by America, or FOX news as some here seem to be.

I don't like American double standards, and do not engage in them that is why I point them out.

I do not want to abide by American policy, but unfortunately it seem I do not have a choice in the matter; seeing as we are partipating in the SPP; which will give more control to the U.S.

Jeff, It seems you need a lesson on the kind of governmental system we have here in Canada, seeing as you think we have a democracy.

Democracy is "majority rule".

It means that the country is ruled by what a majority of the population wants, not by what a political party and government want.

The Canadian system of government is best described as republicanism (even if it does have some symbolic monarchism), where the plurality (majority: more then half of a group, plurality: largest share) of the people vote for who rules.

Notice the distinction here; in our system the majority do not actually rule, but the plurality does decide who rules.

That (majority rule vs plurality decides who rules) is a very important distinction to make, even if it doesn't seem like it. It means completely different people running the country.

It means the difference between politicians running the country and the majority of the people of the country running it.

If the governmental system of this country was a democracy, and 51% of the people in the province wanted to build a giant monument to the roughriders in the middle of Toronto, then it would be done.

But since it isn't, in our current republican system of government, the politicians running the government would
have to support the building of the monument for it to be done.

Here's something to consider.

If you take away the biblical tripe from what is actually quite a modern political issue (that has nothing to do with ancient scribblings), remove western world guilt over what some people 3-5 generations ago did in WWII, and actually step back and look at the issues of Israel and the Middle east as we might any other region in Africa, Asia, etc then it just might become clearer that something we deem so “vitally important” that it simply must be pointlessly debated every few months, begins to look a lot like the relatively mid-range entrenched tribal conflict that it is.

The fact of the matter is that the only reason this conflict warrants the attention it does is because the west wants access to regional resources and various foreign governments have been short sighted enough to continue to arm regional players with sophisticated weaponry which makes these little spats all the more dangerous.

Take away those factors, change the races and religions involved and, judging by even recent history, we are quite content to sit back and pretend that nothing is happening at all.

In this case and considering the fact that every time a blow up happens we get pushed closer to getting directly involved in an unsolvable war, it seems time to rethink our position on the entire matter and stop making this more than it is.

I love this topic, brings out the nuts...

So we've worked in Chomsky, Bush bashing (he started this problem - wow!), hints of Antisemitism and a touch of Islamophobia. All spit forth with extreme passion.

If people so far removed from the conflict cannot resolve their feelings and see a solution, how likely is it that those in the heat of it can?

This will not be resolved in my lifetime, nor that of my children. Not to be a fatalist, but that is the way it goes.

Regardless of who is 'right' or 'wrong' Israel needs to make more of an effort to compromise with its neighbours.

Let's face it... if it wasn't for the Americans, Israel wouldn't exist (roughly one third of the USA's foreign aid budget goes to Israel).

There will come a time, whether it be in 50, or in 100 years, when the US will no longer be the sole superpower of the world and unable to yield the unwaivering control they currently do.

If Israel has any interest in existing at such a time, they will have to make nice with their neighbours... soon. The longer the crisis lasts, the more the hate for Israel in the region grows, and the more refugees it creates.

1) There is such a thing as Arab Jews. These are the Jews that were displaced from Arab countries and still hold deeds to property that is three times the size of TINY Israel. ie Arab League stole Jewish land 1948-1967

2) The Arab League in 1950 declared that any "Palestinian" (they weren't Palestinians then I'm not sure what name they gave them at the time) were not to be given citizenship as such these people and their descendants sit in refugee camps in places like Lebanon until this day. Most of the "refugees" were born in those camps in Lebanon with no rights.

3) Saudi Arabia refuses to shake hands with Israeli diplomats at summit. Saudi Arabia gives rape victim 200 lashes and six months in prison. Saudi Arabia has no moral standards.

4) Over 40 Christian books stores have been burned down in Gaza since Israel left.

5) If the Arab League would mind its own then perhaps there would be peace in the rest of the Middle East.

6) If all this doesn't make sense yet, then keep in mind that applications for Israeli citizenship is overflowing from Muslim-Palestinians. Do you think it could be the normal life style, health care, welfare ==> Modern society?

To: Allan of Kamloops

Try to get your facts straight.

Only one religion allowed in Israel? Tell that to all the Roman Catholics, Protestants, Muslims and atheists who are full Israeli citizens and who have full voting rights in their elections.

All these people have the right to form political parties and run for office. In the last election, two Muslims were elected and currently hold seats in the Knneset.

The U.S. and President Bush have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO GOVERNS IN ISRAEL. To think that they do is so far beyond the line of reason and reality as to be absolutely laughable.

Israel had 12 sons and became a great nation which subsequently broke up into the northern kingdom of Israel (10 tribes) and the southern kingdom of Judah (2 tribes).

But Israel became sinful and turned away from God (2 Kings 17). So God had Israel destroyed by the Assyrians in 721 BC and its inhabitants sent into exile.

It was God that decided that the nation of Israel should no longer exist because as a nation its people were sinful.

He, however, allowed the kingdom of Judah to remain.

The descendants of Judah, regardless of their religion, are by blood the true Jews. The Jews too were sinful and had to endure conquest and occupation by various nations eg. Babylon (Iraq), Persia (Iran), Macedonia (Greece).

But, unlike the Israelis, a lot of Jews were allowed to return/remain in Judah.

What should be noted is that the Romans, after conquering the Jews and in order to humiliate them, renamed Judah/Judea to Palestine because the Philistines (eg. Goliath) had been their perennial enemies.

THUS PALESTINIANS ARE ACTUALLY JEWS. This is proven as DNA tests have shown that the closest relatives to the jews are the Palestinians.

So today we have the situation of the prodigal son (Israelis) returning to his homeland from exile for past sins.

But instead of living in peace and humility with his relatives, he has returned with a vengeance. He has retaken the inheritance the he had stolen (and later forfeited) and has murdered his relatives and assumed their identity.

This done against God’s laws as well as His covenant with Abraham.

For justice to prevail and for peace to be returned to the region, the Palestinians being the true Jews, should have their Jewish identity returned to them (eg. the star of David is theirs as David came from the house of Judah) as well as the lands of Judah (between the Dead Sea and the Mediterranean, including Jerusalem).

I don’t see this happening at the upcoming summit or anytime soon.

Israel exists because we in the West want it to exist. It provides us with a foothold to the oil wealth of the region and provides a place to send unwanted jewish populations (I'm using "jew" in low case to represent religion vs. "Jew" in upper case to represent inheritance.)

The reason the jewish holocaust occured was because Europe was quite anti-Semetic and when the Nazis came calling, jews were handed over for removal.

"Divide and conquer" is a popular strategy used to gain control of a region.

By turning Semite (jew) against Semite (Palestinian, Arab) we have successfully insinuated ourselves into the region.

Playing the sides against each other prevents them from uniting against us. Instead they look to us, who are the cause of the strife, as the mediators.

Remember the Palestinians didn't persecute the jews. When the jews were seeking asylum, it was the Palestinians who gave them shelter.

(Even Canada had its shores off-limits to jewish emigrants.) Ariel Sharon, for example, was born a Palestinian jew to emigrants from Europe.

The Palestinians were the good guys. They did not deserve to have their land taken from them. So what happened?

Why did the persecuted take lessons from the Nazis and become the persecutors? Simply put - Israelism was reborn.

Some background history. God's covenant was with Abraham (Gen 12). Abraham's descendants who believed in Him, regardless of their religion (jew, christian, muslim), were bequeathed the lands of Canaan.

But Israel (nee Jacob), a son of Isaac and grandson of Abraham coveted the inheritance for himself.

So he waited until his brother Esau was in a weakened state and got him to sign over his birthright before he gave him aid (Gen 25) (much like the Israelis are trying to do to the Palestinians today).

He also waited till his father Isaac was old and blind, disguised himself as Esau, and tricked Isaac into giving him Esau’s blessings (Gen 27). Israel was a selfish and devious person.

Perhaps this view of the mess in the middle east will escape the DELETE button by those at CBC it might offend, unlike my last effort.

I say this as I see others are allowed to post three times toda on the same issues, so perhaps I'm on the wrong side of this debate or something.

That aside, I am a bit perplexed by those who post on here in either absolute ignorance of fact or intentially to try to insult one party or the other.

I refer to the scholars (lol) who insist on describing Israel as a "democracy", but calling all the Arab states "Islamic", as in Islamofascists," the new Bushism for those he can't control.

Now I realise there are some in the Arab world who want to force Islam on all citizens, just as a good many in Israel think only Jews are entitled to citizenship.

Can you have a democracy when only one religious belief is allowed?

Conversly, if all the citizens of a country are allowed to vote, regardless of religious affiliation, and then opt to elect a majority government, is that not a democratically elected government?

Or does being "democratic" require the approval of the US and England, which, of course, know a thing or two about appointing and propping up unelected dictators in middle-east settings?

Perhaps I ought to direct the question to Chris of Waterloo if he can tear his mind away from the fact that someone hasn't noticed his whiteness or the equally troubling problem that someone has said Canada is a western country.

Was she supposed to say a "white" country Chris?

Sometimes it helps to put things in perspective.

Think of Israel as downtown Toronto and the various surrounding neighbouring countries who want to wipe them out as being such places as Mississauga, Oakville, Scarborough, Brampton, Milton etc. Now think of the eastern Lakeshore area as the Gaza strip. Divide the Rogers Centre into four to represent Jerusalem.

That will give some idea of the strategic and security problems that Israel has to deal with. Every bit of land that they give up means that the enemies who have vowed to wipe them off the face of the earth get that much closer to their goal.

If you've never been to that part of the world, you should go if you can. Israel is so small that a passenger jet aircraft approaching Tel Aviv on the Mediterranean coast at cruising speed will cross Israel and enter Jordanian air space within 4 or 5 minutes.

The scale of things in the middle east is nothing remotely like it is in North America. Countries there are more like room mates than they are like neighbours.

When it comes to air and rocket attacks, there is no buffer zone and no early warning system that could be even remotely effective for any of them.

Miltary dominance by the Israelis is the only factor that maintains some level of uneasy balance in the region.

Diplomacy and politics will only work for a few weeks until some radical Muslim terrorist group thinks its become too quiet and peaceful and blows up another Israeli bar or school bus.

Three cheers for Don of Mississauga! Thank you for the educational and impartial posts. There needs to more of this kind of objectivity in these discussions.

To "Michele," from somewhere in "Canada:"

Why do you blame America?

Why does everyone always blame America?

If you don't like American influence, don't allow yourself to be influenced by it!

If you don't like American double standards, don't engage in them!

If you don't like American money, don't spend it!

If you don't like American policy, don't abide it!

There is NO EXCUSE!

NONE AT ALL!

America is but one nation of many hundreds.

No nation need negate America and then have to go it alone! Never!

There are plenty of fish in the sea!

So... If you don't like America... if you don't wanna be their friend, and yet, you don't wanna coddle up to dictators from other countries... NO PROBLEM!

Make friends elsewhere!

Make friends with Finland, or Norway, or Ireland, or The Netherlands, or Paraguay, or Bolivia, or...

It's a great, big, wonderful world out there!

Like my mom said to me when I was barely 3 years old: "If there're going to be like that, then they aren't you friends, so go hang out with the kids who are nice to you!"

SERIOUSLY!

WHAT'S THE PROBLEM!?

Countries suck up to America because the people of these countries, ultimately, whether they be democracies or dictatorships, allow them to!

Just like we in Canada suck up to China knowing full well that a lot of the things we buy from China are made by oppressed, over-worked, under-fed children!

Do you remember the feminist chant in Canada which goes, and rightly so: "NO MATTER HOW WE DRESS, NO MATTER WHERE WE GO, YES MEANS YES, AND NO MEANS NO!!

Remember?

Well, why don't you, and all the leaders of the world who agree with you, just say: "NO" to America. (And "NO" to China, for that matter.)

Again, it's a matter of leadership!\

None of our leaders will stand up to ANY injustice these days! Not a one!

And in a democracy, dear Michele, that is your fault.

So blame yourself!

Before you blame the great American Boogie-man!

OK?

Ya know............we can say whatever we like about this issue, the bottom line I believe is this: most middle east countries do not want the Israelies in the middle east.

They want them gone.

You gotta know that when other countries won't even aknowledge your existance, then there's gotta be a serious problem that no one can ever fix.

This area of the world has been in constant turmoil since way before the Americas were colonised by the Europeans.

I don't think that any peace talks are going to make any difference about what's going on over there. There is way to much hate.

con't.

While claiming to be protecting the world from pro-liferation threats in Iraq, Libya, Iran and N. Korea, American 'leaders' have not only abandoned existing treaty restrictions but also plans to test and develop new weapons themselves.They have also reversed policy by threatening 'first use' of nuclear weapons against non nuclear countries.

Through the space weapons program the U.S.'s goal is to have the ability to strike any target anywhere within 45 minutes.

The U.S. itself is not living up to its obligations to 'constrain' or reduce its nuclear arsenal; which puts themselves in violation of the NPT

When the coalition of NPT introduced a proposal that called merely for implemention of the NPT commitments already made, the U.S., Britain and France voted AGAINST it.

With a record like that how can the U.S. ever be seen as a 'honest broker'. Citizens of the 'western' world, including some posters here, may not see the U.S. in this light; but I bet more of the rest of the world does, particualarly after the last 7 years.

After reading some of the comments here I suggest people read 'Manufacturing Consent'. Its obvious to me, if not themselves, that they have fallen totally for what the mainstream media tells them. I also suggest they try some alternative sources of information to broaden their sources of information.

I would also like to point out Bush's threat of WW3 at a press conference on October 17, 2007:
"I've told people that if you're interested in avoiding World War III, it seems like you ought to be interested in preventing them from having the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon"

I think it would be good to point out that many of the current 'dictators' in the mideast region have been placed in power by England or the U.S., such as Jordan and Saudi Arabia. The U.S. has also played a part
in past dictators put in power, such as the Shah in Iran. They also support other current dictators such as Pakistan where the CIA funds, covertly, up the 1 Billion a month to keep Musharraf in power. All Pakistan's top generals have been hand picked and bought by Washington. The U.S. has also back the formation of the Islamic republic of Afghanistan(at inception).

Bush is now going after Iran claiming they are trying to develop a nuclear weapon, even after the IAEA reports claim otherwise. Iran is a member of the non-proliferation treaty
(1 of 189 states). Five of which have nuclear weapons: the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Russia, and China. Only four nations are not signatories: India, Israel, Pakistan and North Korea. India and Pakistan have openly tested nuclear bombs.

The key inducement for NPT membership is that those in compliance will have exclusive access to highly 'sensitive' nuclear technology. As a move to weaken the NPT effort, Bush has announced plans to lift these
restrictions and grant this information to India, which has rejected the NPT.

con't.

A quick note to Charlene Smith, from Woodstock, Ontario:

It is true that the Soviets lost in Afghanistan. But that is because of, as I mentioned in a previous post, bad leadership!

The Soviets threw more than 5 million soldiers and more than 10,000 tanks, a multitude of artillary pieces, countless katusha rockets, and God knows what else at the Nazis!

And they won! TOTALY!

If the Soviets had fought in Afghanistan the way they had fought against the Nazis, in other words: If the Soviets had thrown the ENTIRE MIGHT OF THE SOVIET UNION against the Afganis, instead of the miniscule 150,000 soldiers they sent there, then the Afghanis would all be speaking Russian by now!

I suppose we can all say: "Well, it's a good thing they didn't," eh?

Nevertheless, the Soviets loss in Afghanstan was a matter of poor leadership, plain and simple.

Just like the massivly out-numbering Muslims' constant loss to tiny Israel is!!

And just like if NATO should loose in Afghanistan this time!

If NATO looses in Afghanistan this time, it will be because of poor leadership! It will definately NOT be because of the men and women on the ground who, as citizen soldiers of free democracies, especially Canada, carry on the legacy of fighting in other peoples countries for a better tommorow for the people of these far away places, at the cost of their very own lives!

And all because these citizen soldiers of free democracies, especially Canada, do truely believe that their sacrifices, and that their very own LIVES, will make a better world and therefore, as you write of your ancestors who crossed oceans to fight for other peoples' freedom too, do truely think that they are therefore fighting "for the benefit of Canada" too!

Because Canada is a part of the world and therefore a better world is also a better place for Canada!

Don't you think?

Yes, there's always a chance of success. The Israelis have consistantly defended themselves justifiably against attack by extremists of several fronts. On occasions when they have gained vast tracts of territory due to their incredible military strength, they have more often than not subsequently given it back. Israel is not lacking in humility, she is lacking in recognition from her neighbors both physical and figurative.

The humility needed is needed from the palestinians and arab countries.

The fact that Arab countries are participating facilitates talks, and that's a start and source of hope. Isreal will survive regardless, whether Palestine is willing to recognize that and change their approach to one of peace and co-operation or not is the question.

Charlene, I thank you for your response, but unfortunately I missed the part where you clarified what a "Western Country" is exactly. If you're going to use a term to stereotype people then at least have the knowledge to explain the term. As a 'white' person I am offended that my heritage and culture is simply referred to as a 'Western Country' and its the fault of 'Western countries' for all problems in the world. If you're going to live by the "Political Correctness Sword" then you must also die by it as well.

How could a lasting peace agreement come about between two forces that are so completely on opposite sides of the cultural, religious, political and legal spectrums?

Like most western countries, Israel is a modern society with both religious and secular cultural influences. It is as true a democracy as Canada is. It's economy follows a modern economic model and it's laws and judicial system are very "western". There is no deep seated religious or political objective to eradicate Islam and it's adherents from the planet.

The Arab/Muslim countries are a complete contrast. They are invariably dictatorships or monarchies. Their economies are extremely one-dimensional, largely based on oil production.

Their lives are totally dominated and dictated by Islamic beliefs. Their laws and judicial processes are based exclusively on the Quoran and, in many cases, brutally so. For example, Saudi Arabia, with a population smaller than Canada at 27 million, has publicly beheaded 136 people so far in 2007 many of whom were tried without benefit of legal counsel and convicted on the basis of forced confessions. Israel virtually abolished the death penaly in 1954.

If the Israelis give up any land whatsoever to the Palestinians the Muslim crusade against the existence of Israel will accelerate. They will simply demand more and more until they precipitate an all-out war. The leader of Iran has stated that it is his sacred duty to trigger Armaggedon and wipe the Jews from the face of the earth. How can anyone believe that lasting peace is even remotely possible with people like that in power?

Some may not like it but those are basic facts.

You can try and mix fire and gasoline if you want to but there will be an explosion. And so it will be in these "peace" talks.

Does anyone remember an interview with Norman Schwartzcoff after Desert Storm?Remember he is also considered a genius also.

He stated that IF the Iraqi army hadn't been deprived of the bare essentials such as clothing,food etc. for so long then the Americans would have been slaughtered.

He stated their military positioning was brilliant.

They knew the desert conditions and terrain that nobody from out of their countries understood.

I think that was also what helped the Vietemenese too.

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the Solviets also defeated in Afganistan?

Not only is leadership a problem but I also think there is too much dissention in their own ranks not only by government officials but by the military and then throw in good old religion.

There is so many factions fighting each other and in so many other countries in the surrounding areas that we have a pressure cooking over there waiting to blow.

The only way to achieve peace there as in anywhere else is for everyone to want it.

I really don't see that happening in my life time.

Add nuclear weapons to the mix and it doesn't look to good for anyone in the world unless cooler heads prevail.

Man seems to be bound bent on the destruction of itself and the world as a whole.

I do worry for the future generations coming behind us.

How long has turmoil and upheaval plagued this middle eastern region. Israel, has fought to retain the independence awarded in 1948. To this day this tiny but fiercely proud nation struggles to ward off her religious and political enemies. Palestine , it's boundaries overflowing with refugees and former citizens of Israel, is constantly used as the 'fuse' for regional chaos. The oil producing boarder states increasingly seek more wealth and power. Petroleum using countries constantly play the 'checker and chess games' with these states; attempting to broker fuel advantages and disenfranchise certain of their competitors.

Are we now to believe this latest series of pacification agendas are sincere attempts to bring stability to the region? I doubt that very much. Unless and until 'production' takes a back seat to people , faith is recognised as a right for all, and the Creator, not man, is the 'bigger' picture, these round table discussions will accomplish nothing. Absolutely nothing !

Here's another thought:

It must be so entirely irksome for the Muslims to out-number the Israelis with a ratio of 1 billion to a paltry 5 million (that's a 200 to 1 ratio!!), and yet, Muslims cower in fear before the Israelis because the Muslims have routinely, ALWAYS, been utterly vanquished by the vastly out-numbered Israelis! ALWAYS!!

What gives?

And don't tell me about how America supports Israel! The Soviet Union supported the Muslims with their FINEST weapons and training, and yet, still the Muslims lost... badly... ALWAYS!

These were, by the way, the same Soviet weapons and training given to the North Vietnamese who beat the Americans! The Americans who fought with their own weapons, ie: THE SAME WEAPONS THAT THE ISRAELIS USED!

Clearly, historicly, there is no excuse! If the North Vietnamese, using Soviet weapons, can beat the Americans, who used American weapons, then the Muslims cannot blame their constant losses on the fact that the Israelis had American weapons while the Muslims had Soviet weapons! It just doesn't wash!

It is a historical fact that Soviet weapons can defeat American weapons! In other words: It ain't the fault of the weapons! It's the fault of the people who vastly out-numbered their opponants, YET STILL LOST... BADLY... EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!

It all depends on how you use the weapons! In other words: It all depends on how your leaders order you to fight with your weapons!

It comes down to a matter of LEADERSHIP!

The Israelis got it, the Muslims don't!

It's that simple!

As Christopher Hitchens pointed out, Religion poisons everything. Religious apologists constantly try to prove that religion is not the problem in the middle east. Well, in fact, it is the problem. Religion is always a problem. Once you made that first step of believing in some all powerful being who has never been seen, photographed or engaged in face to face conversation, you are ready to believe in anything. You have already genuflected to the idea of irrationality.
To those who point out that there was a Jewish homeland centuries ago in Palestine, I would point out in a similar fashion that the land you are now sitting on was once the homeland of North American aborigines. Do you feel it entitles them to have it back two hundred years later. Additionally, history is full of instances where one tribe has been defeated and replaced by another. If we try to re-establish the world as it was in 100 BC, we will be marching with Roman emperors again. Come to think of it that may not be such a bad idea.

The summit is doomed to failure simply because in order for real peace to be had, the leaders on all sides actually have to want it.

All of the players involved have vested political, economic and even personal interests in the status quo as so many have had before them and so many will afterwards. Until this changes, any talk of peace is about as realistic as expecting a blizzard to hit Jerusalem.

This one will fail like all in the past, and all in the future.

The reason why is very simple:

Muslim leaders have painted themselves into a Catch 22 corner.

In order to deflect their citizens wrath away from their dictatorships, and the accompanying total lack of democratic choice, hiddeous corruption, and outright hopelessness, these leaders have always whipped up violent, anti-Israeli sentiment and a no compromise mind-set in the people they lord over.

And it has always worked! They are still in power!

It's simmilar to how American politicians used the Soviet Union, and now use Islamic terrorism to deflect American voters' concerns away from America's domestic problems. It must be said, however, that unlike in the above named Muslim countries, in America, it is done without imprisoning, torturing, nor murdering their political opponants, nor shutting down newspapers, nor taking away American's right to vote!!!!

So now, back in the Muslim world, Muslim leaders can't possibly make peace with Israel, nor allow any other Muslim leaders to do so. Because if they did, they would be admitting that they have been telling an ocean of lies for 2 generations! Or worse, they would have to admit that they are weak and unworthy becuase they sold out to the "Zionist" enemy, instead of "driving them into the sea!"

And there ain't a Muslim dictator on Planet Earth whose gunna put himself in that position!

And so, the situation is hopeless.

Unless one thing, and only one thing happens:

The Israelis and the Palestinians must make peace on their own without help nor influence from anyone else. Period!

That way, no one else can be blamed for peace!

Kinda funny, ain't it?: In the Muslim World, making peace, at last, between the Israelis and the Palestinians is something very bad for which you can be blamed and vilified, even gunned down, ie: Anwar Sadat!

Totaly warped, eh!?

Don of Mississauga wrote: "Learn to distinguish! Islam is a religion, NOT a race or a country!"

True. But Islam is more than a religion. It is a system of government. And where Islam is predominant in a country as a "religion" it is invariably the system of government as well.

It would do well for ALL of us to learn to distinguish. Innumerable "westerners" think the Christian/Islam conflict began with the crusades. In fact, it began in the time of the prophet himself, and the policies of Islam in dominating the cultures they conquered were no less horrific than the policies of the crusades.

It's a bad idea to take sides in issues of mid-east peace, as no one has a clean slate.

When I was a very young man my boss harangued us constantly about the injustices done to Palestinians. I took the side of Israel. Now that I'm an experienced adult, the injustices of Israel bother me just as much as anything the Palestinians have done.

Forgive me, but sometimes I feel these two sides completely deserve each other.

First, I would just like to remind some people that using the term 'middle east' in a casual-blanket way does not really give any clear indication of the area you are actually speaking about. 'Middle' of what, and 'East' of where?

Be specific because otherwise you may find yourself inadvertently claiming certain things about some countries that are entirely untrue. The so-called 'middle east' is a big region. To blanket all 'middle eastern' countries as unstable tars them all with the same brush and negates to understand many complex and DIFFERENT cultures and histories.

Moving on... I must admit that while I applaud all efforts to achieve peace between Israel and Palestine, I am somewhat skeptical of the ultimate effectiveness that this meeting will have.

Hosted by the United States which has long been a firm supporter of Israel's existence, it seems to me that this may send a message of 'home field advantage' to Israel and discourage Palestinians before they even begin discussion.

This of course, is even without considering the United States' current relationships with other nations who have not historically supported Israel (ie Iraq).

Furthermore, it does not seem like it is really the LEADERS of these nations that need to be convinced of the merits of a peaceful coexistence, but rather, those who continue to attack the other group via marketplace bombings and the like. How exactly this is to be carried out when non governmental groups who fight on either side are not likely to be present to make themselves heard, is not clear to me.

And, one final note: to say (as some posts here do) that 'peace is not in their religion,' shows extreme ignorance. First, which religion? Judaism or Islam? And second, neither of these religions have fundamentally violent natures. Extremists on either side do not represent the whole picture.

This summit has a chance of progress because the most important parties are at the table and talking. Whether the summit is any more successful entirely depends upon how well the different parties work together toward a good compromise for the Palestinian people and the Israeli state. If this summit achieves what all others had not, there will by no means be peace until Hezbollah and Syria recogize Israel as a state and stop underiming attempts at peace.

Well Chris your "white man"therory missed the mark because my grandmother's side of the family can be traced back to the Swiss/German border back to the 1600s when they fled from religious persecution by the Catholic's.

Look under Huber later changed to Hoover.

They were caged,tortured and burned at the stake for being heretics for not renouncing their religion and becoming good Catholics.They were Pacifists.

Same thing happened to my Native grandfather,haven't been able to find out too much about him or anything of his family but wasn't that the point?

Try to make him into something he wasn't?Never being able to forget he was Native but never being allowed to forget he wasn't white either.

Am proud to say that in the First and Second World Wars,neither of them allowed their histories to dissuade them for fighting for the benefit of Canada.

Canada also fits into the Western doctrine as we not only have NOT been a country that long we were under British rule.

So he who can claim ignorance,let them cast the first stone.

Posters here are treating the subject mainly in a present political point-of-view. But the mid-east operates still as the confluence of three religious contingents, each mutually exclusive of the two others, and seeing them as interlopers in the natural superiority claimed by each faction. Consequently there will be no political solution ever considered, even as religion loses its primacy as the prime motivator of human actions and reactions in the rest of the world.

If the leaders of each of the three factions could bring themselves to see the religious intolerance in themselves and the religious truth which abides in the 'others' there would be hope for the cradle of mankind.

Maybe when oil is no longer the currency of power and the lands are permitted to return to use as food-producers those religious attitudes will change for the better.

I agree that this will not bring any peace to the Middle East, but somebody should try something. I would love to see Canada take over the meeting and move it to Toronto. Maybe Harper will have a little more pull than Bush! Or maybe we (USA/Canada) should give the Isreal people land and move them over to North America. This should fix all the worlds problems!

Charlene, I think you meant to say "USA and Britain" where you said "Western Countries". Additionally, please clarify what a "Western Country" is exactly.

Its a term fanatical left-wingers like to spout off in their rhetoric infested tirades. Is Australia a 'Western Country'? What about Japan? or Germany? Canada?

Or is this yet another way to blame the 'white man' for all of the world's problems, but disguising it under the term "Western Country"?

"Muslims" did NOT spread out over the middle east: Islam spread out amongst the Arabs of the middle east. Learn to distinguish! Islam is a religion, NOT a race or a country!

The Arabs had been living in the area as long or longer than Jewish invaders - yes, invaders. The Exodus story clearly refers to repeated and aggressive attacks against local inhabitants of the region of Palestine which led to the formation of a Jewish state in the heart of Arab territory.

The history confirms exactly my earlier post where I wrote that terrain is won and lost by force of arms NOT by divine right. Anyone who subscribes to the theory of divine right is clearly not in control of their thought process and no doubt continues to think that the rule of kings has been conferred by a supernatural entity - clearly an absurd impossibility.

Learn proper history!

In wars such as this everyone is a victim, from the Palestinian farmer driven from his land by Israeli terrorists in 1947 to the young girl murdered in a suicide bombing in the heart of Jerusalem in 2007. Both sides have suffered losses and both sides have engaged in horrifying acts of brutality against the other.

Given that the division of territory now includes Palestinian nationals AND Israeli occupiers, there is a slight chance that the two sides can reach some sort of accommodation with the help and support of the Arab majority.

War has obviously failed as a means by which Palestinians and Israeli's can settle their differences, and a thousand more years of terrorism on both sides will not change anything either.

There is not the slightest chance of peace in the MIDDLE EAST between Israel and Palestine!

The Dove of Peace in effect 'Flew out the Window' when Count Bernadotte who was bringing it to Israel, was murdered by the Stern Gang.

An all out war is the only way this long festering sore will heal!

The fact that Arab nations other than Jordan and Egypt are taking a stake in this process is huge. Men like King Abudullah of Jordan appreciate the value of long term stability in the region. They have long suffered through a series of devastating wars that have not advanced their nations cause.

The Gulf states on the other hand are very concerned about the rising tide of Islamic fundamentalism which threatens their traditional base of power. Stability amongst it's neighbours is definately in thier interest as well. Divided, they are doomed to failure!

It is an undertaking that is very complex and there will be no instant gratification. As you can tell from the posts of various readers......there are years of grudges, aggrieved and long suffering people along with a highly unfair distribution of wealth and power and access to suffrage.

The Israeli/Palestinian situation is a start......but there is far more work to do. To those of you cynics out there who would rather drive your SUV's to the Golf Course.....this is an endeavour worth doing!

Stan Welner's "creative" interpretation of history is frankly laughable. Why is it that some people believe that things they make up are actually historical facts. Most neo-cons use this revisionist strategy and it really hurts their credibility.

"Middle East misery began in cc 7 AD. I stand by this fact firmly! Muslims and Islam came into the Holy Land or Israel, not the other way around! This is not about taking sides. It is only about historical truth!

Muslims spread over much of the Central, East and South East Asia, in addition to Africa and Europe. How then could they be innocent bystanders or victims? Jews were the victims!"

You are historically and factually correct.

Israel, as a Jewish homeland, existed already thousands of years ago. Islam was invented only around 610 A.D. All the land which the so-called Palestinians are claiming as their own were in fact part of ancient Israel and belong to the Jews.

There are also incidents to take into consideration such as the massacre of Jewish residents of Hebron in 1927 and the expulsion of Jews from Arab states. It's not a coincidence that names such as Hebron and Gaza come from Hebrew.

As to history, it can be not only distorted but has also been disputed and what has been known as fact has also been proven false.

As to interpreting any kind of literature it is the truth of the writer and also everyone's perception of what they "interupt'it to mean.

Personally I wasn't around in A.D. time or even the B.C. time frame you mention.

Were you?

As to the comments about the Western politics, we have a habit of sticking our nose in other countries business ALL the time.

I think we are trying to make over ALL countires in our own image.

If they don't agree we declare them enemies or declare war on them.

Shouldn't we clean up our OWN problems at home BEFORE we decide to clean up everyone else's?

Stan:

FYI: Golda Meir was no man, and she did nothing for the peace process. It has nothing to do with gender, it's about religion. It's a battle that started with the crusades. No different than Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia and countless other ageless examples of religious intolerance.

There will never be peace in these situations. Just like the war on terror, we in the West will have to always fight the good fight.

To Stan Weiner:

Your reading of history is either grossly incorrect or you made it up. First off, The Romans occupied Palestine and destroyed Jerusalem not once, but twice: the first time around 70 CE (common era), the second time around 135 CE. Both times in response to a Jewish uprising. The diaspora resulted from Roman actions, not Arab / Turkish.

Jews and Arabs lived in relative peace with each other once the Turkish empire gained control of the region following the collapse of Rome. Things fell apart again when the crusaders invaded Palestine, killing Jews and Arabs indiscriminately. When the Mongol hordes invaded from the east it delivered a death blow to the Arabs: they were never able to recover from the Mongol wars and began a slow decline, culminating with their final collapse following WW1.

The current problems began when western european governments began to divvy up the Ottoman lands among themselves, reneging on agreements made with the local Arab population who wanted the right of self determination.

Things got worse when England sided with Zionists attempting to create a state within Palestine: they created the myth of "A people for a land without people" and targeted Palestinian lands for settlement. Arab farmers began to see their lands sold off to europeans and they were expelled from farms they had worked for centuries, causing much turmoil and resentment.

Jewish terrorism during the 1947 war cleared Palestinians off huge tracks of land and out of hundreds of villages which were then razed to the ground, erased from history and therefore historical claim.Former PM SHaron perpetrated much of this terrorism personally, and worked alongside terrorists and future Prime Ministers such as Menachem Begin.

Palestinians thrown out of Palestine have never been able to return and form a new, Palestinian, Diaspora. That's the REAL history, in brief.

Seems there is alot of talk relating to ancient history of the jewish people and islamists. Can't change history, even though many of us would like to, myself included.
Talk and rhetoric will not change a thing. Until the killing of innocents stops on both sides, there is little hope of any 'beginning'.

With the Arab nations on board there is a better chance at a meaningful dialogue going forward, however let's not forget that the two state solution is akin to dividing up your home between the family that owns the house and the burglars who broke in and pushed the rightful owners out. Still, that's the way aggressive powers have gained territory since the dawn of human history: find allies, invade, slaughter and kill, divvy up the spoils, relax and light a cigar, pretend to be the victim when the "natives" fight back. We can see the same pattern here in Canada with our First Nations communities.

The current tragedy is as a direct result of western military powers playing politics on a global scale while using the Arab world for their own dark purposes - first against the Ottoman empire, then against each other. The notion that one side has precedence over another is misleading and false: the fact of the matter is is that the current state of Israel is not there by historical / biblical right, but because of force of arms, the studied use of terrorism, and the collusion of western governments.

Ask a First Nations person why they would want to make peace with the same people who robbed them of their lands and nearly destroyed their culture and they will tell you that they are tired of war and strife, and want an end to unending years of prejudice, oppression, and humiliation. There can be no return to the way things were before Europeans invaded (in both cases) so it's well past time to try and find a reasonable accommodation with their hated neighbour.

I do not believe there is a ghost of a change for peace. Their leaders will try to commit to peace, but the radicals will destroy that any way they can.The insurgent faction will never give up.

To Brian Allardice:

Thank you! At least you could have told me what is it I don't know.

As for CBC, my detailed answer to Charlene Smith was ignored! Thanks a lot! It is not the first time. I wonder why!?

Well, I am a romantic, not a realist, and hope for the best. Unlikely, to be sure, but what else to do?

Cheers,
dba

To Stan Welner of Brampton, you know nothing of history.

Hey Charlene,

If you don't like the 'West' for whatever policy you disagree with, why don't you move over to Iran or Saudi Arabia and see for yourself how well your liberal ideas go over? I dare say that you would get your eyes opened up wide.

PS - what is with Canadians and the 'USA evil empire' rhetoric? It truly goes to show the lack of intelligence on the real issues here in Canada.

To Charlene Smith:

I get my facts mostly from museums, Bible, history books, encyclopedias and Internet. Where do you get your facts from, Charlene?

Middle East misery began in cc 7 AD. I stand by this fact firmly! Muslims and Islam came into the Holy Land or Israel, not the other way around! This is not about taking sides. It is only about historical truth!

Muslims spread over much of the Central, East and South East Asia, in addition to Africa and Europe. How then could they be innocent bystanders or victims? Jews were the victims!

The original inhabitants of these lands were either converted or beheaded, that includes the present day Palestinians.

Under these circumstances, Jews had no choice but to leave. Nevertheless, they remembered and did not forsake their land or faith!

Religious conversion did not bring peace to the Palestinian people, rather sheer misery!

I challenge you, Charlene to dig in and learn the whole truth of the Middle East history!

Thank You!

Whats the point? We all know this area is the most violent in the world, has been for centuries upon centuries. They are at least 200 years behind the rest of the modernized world; thus the caveman behaviours and thought processes.

Any effort to improve the MiddleEast is a lost cause and waste of resources.

Everytime I want to make a comment, it says "comments closed" what's that about? Let us comment. Take a look at the the USA Today site, they have a comment page for every story that is on their site. Maybe we could all earn something.

Daniel...........Toronto

Summits attended by officials who no longer - or never did - represent the will of the people will accomplish nothing.

For example, Saudi Arabia is governed by a brutal dictatorship hiding behind the guise of a 'Monarchy'. Even leaders in so-called democratic states very seldom care about the interests of all but a small elite - at least that's the way it is after the election is over.

So as long as a world's elites are trying to dictate solutions to problems without the support of the majority of their citizens/subjects, they can just forget about solving the conflicts now raging all over this planet. Besides, profit is always the motive of the people who really run this world. Politicians are usually just temporary puppets.

Stan may I ask,where you are getting your facts from?

Is it a history and old map or the Bible.

The reason I am asking,in the Bible Jews were homeless and sent to wander due to their arrogance of God.

In old maps,I remember Syria,Persia[Iran or Iraq?] I believe Turkey was there and Egypt.

It has been a long time since I have seen one and am not sure where to look for one now.

Fact is the WEST has no place in Eastern politics,they shift with the sands which Eastern Scholars keep telling the West but as usual the West doesn't listen.

I believe this summit is a huge waste of time and money.

Have any of you ever seen the interaction between a squirrel and a chipmunk. These creatures are from the same family, yet they are natural enemies.

The squirrel will always try to kill the chipmunk,with usually no exceptions.Their hatred and intolerance for one another is in their DNA. It has always been there, it's nature and there is nothing that we can do about it.

The same can be said about the middle east countries and Israel. If the almighty U.S of A think they can resolve the issues concerning these countries, then they are dreaming in technicolour and we all know that George Bush dreams in black and white...oh yeah,and lots of grey, a hell of a lot of grey!

I, like many of the others here, see no realistic hope in peace coming to fruition. US administrations come and go, peace talks stir up transient feelings of hope but in the end the results are boringly predictable...more violence.

Have you ever been involved in a family dispute over the inheritance you feel should have been allotted differently? There will be no peace settlement between Abraham's descendants, Hebrew and Arab, no matter how hard outsiders try to mediate their mutual disputes. The situation is only made worse by interference and obvious political motives by outsiders.

When Canada proclaims the Israeli warlike reactions of a year or so ago to be a "reasonable response" and also rejects the "democratic" election of a Palestinian government, we can see clearly the impossibility of any equitable solution to be approved by the actual power-brokers who control the hidden agenda being played out over the entire mid-east region.

Considering how long there has been complete and total turmoil in the mideast,I fail to see how peace could possibly be achieved!

And the U.S.will find a way to screw it up even worse than it is now, so what is the point?

Iran and Syria are the dogs that wag the Arab middle east tail, not Saudi Arabia.

These radical regimes do not want to see any kind of lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians because that would prevent them from wiping out the Jews as they believe is their sacred duty. The so-called Palestinian cause is a very convenient rallying point. If that's resolved, Hamas and the other Iranian/Syrian sponsored terrorist groups will become totally redundant and they aren't about to let that happen.

Every country involved in this summit might as well go home and save their collective energy, time and money.

The final resolution will only come at the end of an all-out (probably nuclear) war in the middle east with the last country left standing being declared the ruler of whatever remains habitable. That will almost certainly be a heavily damaged Israel.

Such a war is as inevitable as the sun rising in the east despite whatever warm fuzzies this latest political effort comes up with.

Not likely! The reason being is that the true issues are not being objectively looked at!

Contrary to popular belief, the Jews are greater victims than the Palestinians! The problems in the Middle East began in 7 AD, not in 1948, as many people came to believe.

Jews lived in what is today known as Israel from cc 2100 BC to cc 7 AD. Muslim hordes invaded The Holy Land in cc 7 AD and forcibly converted people around and within Israel.

Jews live in the area longer than any other nation, therefore the land is rightfully theirs! Jews were driven out en mass because they rejected conversion to Islam.

Wrongs done, in the 7th century AD, to Jews must be reversed first!

Once that injustice is rectified other issues will be solved easier and more objectively.

I just read "Palestine: Peace not Apartheid"
to gain more knowledge of this issue. I really
cannot see peace occurring in the region until
Israel stops building settlements in the Palestinian West Bank, removes existing settlements, and stops building road and walls in the West Bank. U.N.security
council resolution 242 (1967) required this. I realize the Palestinians are not blameless in all this, but I can only imagine their frustration over illegal Isreali settlements on their land.

A couple of quotes from the above mentioned book:

"Israel's continued control and colonization of Palestinian land have been the primary obstacles to a comprehensive peace agreement in the Holy Land" - Jimmy Carter

"In order to perpetuate the occupation, Israeli forces have deprived their unwilling subjects of basic human rights" - Jimmy Carter

"I am certain the world will judge the Jewish state by how it will treat the Arabs" - Chaim Weizmann, former Israeli president.

I doubt it.

This latest effort is little more than a pathetic effort by Bush to try to show he has actually accomplished something in the past seven years.

But, like the typical politicians who want to know the answer before asking a question, the US under Bush has been far too busy to even pretend to be the disinterested third party capable of reaching any real peace accord.

Let's face it, the Palestinian delegation led by Abbas has little if any credibility.

Before the Amerians and Israelis aided in an the attempted coup to oust the more popular Hamas party from power, Abbas was litle more than a figurehead president.

The coup failed, Palestine is divided and is in a shambles despite how hard the US and Isreal continue to try to prop up Abbas.

The Isreali prime minister himself, under investigation on half a dozen serious criminal allegations, could be gone before any deal is put together.

Just what, other than siding with the US and Isreal can we expect of Canada's politicians.

Harper's pro-Isreali stance, as witnessed in the Israeli-Syrian war of last year, pretty much ensures that Palestinian concerns will take back seat as far as he's concerned.

Most of the other 40 countries "invited" to attend have been hounded for weeks by the US to show up and thus create an illusion of unity in the middle east where there is anything but unity on anything right now.

In short, it's but another charade played out for the chumps who still think George Bush is capable of even wiping himself without smearing.

I am 54 years old, plan to live a long life, and do not expect this issue to be resolved in my lifetime. Both sides have much to lose by signing. Both sides have much to gain by continued animosity.

I have to admit that I would absolutely LOVE this issue to be resolved during the Bush administration and at a meeting sponsored by it. There would be such delicious irony in that!!

Zero. None. Nodda. Zip.

With too much interference from the west we have seen the dismal prospects of brokering a peace deal: the west has no one capable of being a true non-partisan diplomat, especially in Canada.

Peace is not in the west's interests of keeping the price of oil high so we can exploit the misery of others for the sake of our booming war based economies.

This is nothing more than keeping up false appearances.

There is absolutely no chance what so ever. You don't need to look any further than Lebanon to know Peace is not in their religion.

People who believe leaders of the Middle East would rather "die than come to a solution" are ignorant.

As I remember, Oslo, Oslo II, the Camp David Accords, the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty (1979), the Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty (1994) all involved the Israeli-Palestinian issue. All these conferences seemed to have lead to pretty peaceful resolutions. Pre-conceived notions of backwards Middle East States cloud reality.

That being said, although it is nice to have Saudi Arabia at the table, no peace will ever occur unless Syria comes to terms with Israel. Of course, that won't happen until the Golan Heights are returned (which was proposed once, but ultimately turned down because dispute over a 100 metre stretch of land, blocking Syria's access to the water resources Israel uses to irrigate the northern settlements).

Once Syria and Israel come to a peace settlement, unofficial and official Syrian support of Shiite Palestinian Hezbollah will decrease and the government of Lebanon will be able to retake control of their Southern border with Israel from the militia.

An agreement may be closer than one imagines. All it took before was a 100 metre zone to secure peace in the region and for talks about occupied zones to take front and centre stage.

No I don't believe they have any chance whatsoever.

There is too much instability now everywhere in the Middle East.

It is now a matter of whom the U.S. has declared a friend or an enemy.

Too much Western involvement behind the scenes out of the public's notice has brokered a unstable region with too much mistrust from everyone involved in the East now.

For the US to think they can make changes in a region DEFINED by conflict and strife, they are simply delusional.

I was in the region for an extended period of time in 1989 during the conflict with Lebanon. I was given a tour of Palestinian workers on the Israeli side by a decorated tank commander and his words of wisdom still ring true to this day:

"Not all of the Arabs ran to the occupied territories. Only the ones who felt they would be persecuted. Most remained in Israel and live here to this day."

So, what does this say, by running from persecution, those Arabs created persecution and have been enduring it ever since.

Solution? Treat them as humans and equals, raise their quality of life, give them something positive to think about other than killing the occupiers and you will then have peace.

Chance of success...of course! We should never doom discussions of this magnitude before they begin. If there will truely be such wide ranging attendance by the world community, then I remain hopeful.

Having said that, I still have great doubt that the Israeli and Palestinian positions are prepared to accomodate one another. Accomodation is ultimately what is necessary.

Israel will, for a long period of time, require significant force and buffer zones to protect their citizens and existence. They are surrounded by those that may continue to wish for their demise for many generations.

Some communities in the West Bank must be removed, although others in Israel proper may need to be modified and enforced. Checkpoints must also be reviewed and not ensure an unnecessary impedement to the Palestinian workforce and community.

The Palestinians require a real country, not refugee camps and unconnected territories (bantustans) which cannot function as a whole. They require an economy, institutions, and a right to some part of Jerusalem (not as Palestinian territory but possibly an International sharing framework (UN), which would include Armenians and Christians).

The refugee question I think can only be dealt with through reparations (financially). The Palestinians must also concede that they will only succeed if Israel succeeds, and find ways to work together.

Both sides must be prepared to take a deep breath, walk in the others shoes, and make the concessions and accomodations that can only bring the desired peace. That is assuming that peace is truely desired.

No, unless the same tactics, as those in Dayton, Ohio, are used on the leaders of former Yugoslavia, by the B. Clinton regime!

As it is, no solution and more of the same!

No one will be willing to sign on the dotted line! There is too much to 'swallow'! They all would rather die than come to a solution!

God help us! Men have too much pride to humble
themselves and do what is needed to bring peace to the Middle East, once and for all!