The losers are not just those who died and were denied benefits - just think of the millions of dollars collected in premiums from car buyers who paid off their loans, but coverage would have been denied had they died. Sounds like the basis of a class action lawsuit. Posted by: Mike Holden | Feb 28, 07 06:57 PM

program is all right on, took me three years after husbands death to get about 2/3 rds paid to me for truck,i would not have given in till all was due to me except the lawyer i had was going to cost more than i could afford. what a time my two sons have had paying payments for our family. insurance ever again,,,never!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Posted by: carol lewis | Feb 28, 07 07:01 PM

Great program. I am the son of one of the people that happened to and its a shame that that has to go on. I wish the Insurance company would have accepted an interview. Shows that they are cowards and just want the money! Thanks to the staff at CBC for exposing this, it might help the next person who walks into a dealer to buy a car. Posted by: Mark Harrigan | Feb 28, 07 07:14 PM

I watched the show about insurance and the wives that were in shock from the insurance co. In 1990 I went through the same thing. My husband traded a station wagon worth $7,000. in on a Van. He died 6months later and I was told I had to buy it or let it go. I didn't have the money to buy it. I had to go out and buy a second hand car. So I lost big time.The insurance said my husband had a pre-existing health problem.I can't remember what co. I wish I had kept the papers.I know what the women are going through.The show is so good. Thank you and it lets people know just how bad things can be.Thank you Betty Hogg Posted by: Betty E Hogg | Feb 28, 07 07:41 PM

Insurance companies SHOULD be accountable on this and needs to raised with your Provincial and Federal Members of Parliment and have legislation changed on the Post Medical checks process REMOVED from ALL Insurance Companies policies. Thank you for bringing this case to the public's attention. Posted by: M.McCooeye | Feb 28, 07 07:57 PM

In 2001 we bought a car from a dealer and they did try to sell my husband a Ins. policy on the loan. I just happened to be with him and said NO you have had two heart attacks so do not pay extra when they wont pay with a preexisting condition.My husband died in 2003 and I had to make the last two years of car payments. This program will help others when getting a loan to know when not to buy the Ins. Thank you for your great programs Mrs. Peter Lorenzin Posted by: Sharon Lorenzin | Feb 28, 07 08:03 PM

Laws need to be enacted to protect Canadians against Post claim underwriting....ASAP, this practice by dealers and insurance companies is Unbelievable! Posted by: Mason | Feb 28, 07 08:11 PM

I have just seen your programme and I am shocked. My husband brought a new truck just before christmas and I was with him when he signed the papers. We were sold this insurance, I did think it was quite a good idea when the finance lady told us "do you want life insurance? if you die you wife gets the truck paid for" We didnt ask any questions (stupid of us!) as both of us are in perfect health right now and neither of us have any pre exsiting conditions. But we were not asked that or told of any small print we could read or even offred the form so we could read it if we wanted to. I will be checking this out now as basically the only way you would get the tuck paid for is if your my husband had an car accident! and if it was that bad that he died then I dont think I would want the truck then anyway! Posted by: Colette Godfrey | Feb 28, 07 08:16 PM

I just finished watching Marketplace regarding the life insurance sold to unsuspecting customers when buying a vehichle. I was furious when I checked my auto papers for a car that I bought last August to find that I had bought insurace to the tune of $2091 for which both me and my husband would probably not be eligible for. My dealer offered the insurance, suggested it was a good idea, but in NO WAY offered the explanation that was given on Marketplace. We were not advised to read the small print or offered the chance to take it home and read it. I know that ultimately it is our responsiblity but I believe it is the dealer's responsibility to inform the customer about those clauses that make it nearly impossible to collect on unless you are murdered or hit by a bus. Right now I am still reeling. To think I have to pay for this useless policy which up to this point let me sleep comfortably under the false impression that we were covered. I intend to get in touch with my dealer first thing tomorrow - I may not be able to change what's been done but he will know that I will never trust their dealership to sell me another car - nor will I EVER buy life insurace without reading EVERY WORD of the small print. Posted by: Tony and Crystal Nickerson | Feb 28, 07 08:21 PM

Excellent program!! I was angry and sick to my stomach to relive the events which you portrayed in your feature on Pacific Industrial Alliance, " auto payment" (life) insurance. We had the same thing happen to our family in 2003 when my father passed away from cancer. My father passed away honestly beleiving that his family wouldn't be burdened with ongoing payments because he trusted the salesman when he purchased this (life / payment)insurance. It's time the provincial government legislated that anyone selling any type of insurance be licenced and car dealerships should on moral grounds alone, disassociate themselves from these types of policys and that this specific policy as it is written, be illegal in Canada. It is obviously a money grab for the dealerships and the insurance company. Posted by: craig foote | Feb 28, 07 08:31 PM

As an independent life insurance broker, I always tell people that any insurance plan that does not underwrite at time of application (i.e run through a long series of medical questions and possibly require tests) will do the underwriting at time of claim (death). Then the companies may find a way to refuse the claim becaue of the many exclusions you mentioned on your show. This is true of mortgage insurance offered at the banks, group insurance, and even insurance offered by some RESP companies. Any guaranteed issue insurance carries these risks. People buy this type of coverage because it is on the surface cheaper than "real" insurance. Or seems easier to obtain. And of course, "no agent will call." Folks would prefer to be led into plans that are not in their best interest rather than be guided by knowledgeable licensed insurance brokers. I warn potential clients away from this type of coverage, and can only hope they listen. Peggy Steele Independent Insurance Broker Associate: Midpark Financial Corp. Kingston / Ottawa Posted by: Peggy Steele | Feb 28, 07 08:33 PM

As always, great show. Why is it that our society is so preoccupied with making money at any expense. I feel bad for those poor families that were left with a car loan after a loved one passed away. Having said that I have to place the blame on everyone in this case. Everyone has a responsibility to ensure all is disclosed and the buyer to read and understand what they're signing. Anyone who has ever purchased life insurance knows that you can't buy insurance without dis closing your medical history. That should have been the tip off. Posted by: Mark of Brampton | Feb 28, 07 08:36 PM

great show - i cancelled my loan protector insurance with bank right after your show . even worse than car dealer insurance on payments after death . fraud !!! questions are asked about your health if loan is over $100.000 - NO QUESTIONS IF YOUR LOAN IS LESS THAN 100,000 - THEY JUST DON`T PAY WHEN YOU DIE Posted by: joe breen | Feb 28, 07 08:48 PM

I found your credit insurance program very interesting as I had just heard of a similar situation with a major Canadian bank on an insured mortgage and also on a travel accident policy. Worth investigating as well. Posted by: Terry Whitehead | Feb 28, 07 09:04 PM

Just saw the show. I have a couple of remarks. One i have worked in a car dealership for many years and have one question that you did not address. would they have bought the car if they did not qualify for the life insurance? I think they would have. My business department Fully discloses the pre existing conditions that are required on all types of insurances, your show made it seem as though credit insurance is a bad thing to have, is it really? I think that your show have very many truths about what goes on in the closed doors of a car dealership but i truly 100% belive in the product that we offer, My general manager is very customer orientated with the public and i think that the last thing someone wants is too tarnish the reputation of our dealership. i welcome answers and wonder why you only showed the bad parts of credit insurance? Posted by: Shawn Meikle | Feb 28, 07 09:06 PM

Regarding the auto dealer insurance. This is not the only place this happens. I recently applied for travel insurance through a Canadian medical insurance company. Just like your auto dealer coverage , it will not cover any pre existing conditions and if you ahve even seen a doctor prior to traveling they may deny coverage. I have a previous condition from seven years ago and they will still not cover it. It seems to me they should offer a discount to people with previous conditions since they will never pay for any issues related to these. Posted by: R. Burkett | Feb 28, 07 09:06 PM

I was very disappointed with your program, in that you painted all dealers with the proverbial "same brush". I have been a Business Manager with an RV dealership for 10 years now. And yes, I do offer my customers creditor life insurance. It is clearly explained to them and it is their decision to accept or decline the coverage. But the bottom line lies with the customer...please read what you sign. And as a footnote, I have this coverage on my car loan, through Industrial Alliance Pacific. That, in itself, should speak for itself. Sincerely, Carol Franklin Business Manager Posted by: Carol Franklin | Feb 28, 07 09:30 PM

I was wondering if life insurance on a secured credit line at a major bank works the same way? We were told that if we got an unsecured line of credit, we had to fill out a medical for my husband and myself, or the other option was to go with the secured credit line, using our house as collateral, and be guaranteed insurance up to $100,000. Of course, at our ages, 57 & 60, we have health issues, so we have chosen the secured line of credit, trusting that the loan would be insured fully, without question at time of claim. What say you? Posted by: Janet Labrecque | Feb 28, 07 10:05 PM

What Wendy discussed is almost the same as some Mtg.Lenders selling Mtg.Insurance to our soldiers and then refusing payout to their widows when they fell in Afghanistan- absolutely disgusting. What Wendy did not touch on is the fact that insurances make their money because much,if not most of the time, their services are not required.Also: It is common practice that clients do not even claim insurance for "minor" claims around say $ 1000.-because they know that if they do their insurancerates will increase when renewal time comes around. Regards Geb. Posted by: Gebhard von der Wense | Feb 28, 07 10:20 PM

Thank you very much. I will never buy insurance again. I am older than the three gentlemen in the article and I would not be eligable to receive the benefits. Posted by: George Laskey | Feb 28, 07 10:44 PM

Thank you for the timely warning! My husband and I are in the market for a new vehicle, and I will be carefully reading the fine print on all contracts! I hadn't even thought about the need to buy life insurance on a car loan! You have left me with some points to think about! Posted by: Janet Woods | Feb 28, 07 10:49 PM

I watch your loan insurance on automobiles with great interest realizing that I have a prerexisting condition when I bought my car and got this insurance. Nothing was said to me and I did not read the policy closely enough. So thanks for the heads up. Your should also lok into insurance for bank loans as I now believe that the same principle applies and many would not be aware of it. Look forward to any update should you follow up on bank loan insurance. Thanks for educating me for the future. Respectfully Yours Dave Posted by: David Breen | Feb 28, 07 11:07 PM

Credit life insurance gave my father a rest assured state of mind. He died truly believing he was insured. This life insurance was sold to my father not knowing it's terms and conditions. He was eligible for this insurance with a fee of $1200. My mother grieves for her husband and now she grieves over a car she can't afford. This truly could of been avoided if everyone was honest and upfront. Posted by: Dwayne Salmond | Feb 28, 07 11:09 PM

Excellent work on the February 28 th broadcast. Posted by: Robert Hardy | Feb 28, 07 11:12 PM

Credit insurance is a big rip off. I am in the RV industry and am forced to offer this insurance to my customer when I finance with some companys. They make a customer sign an insurance waiver if they don't have insurance. Seminars put on by this insurance company want us to scare customers by telling them how bad things will be for there loved ones if they don't have insurance when they die and we are all going to die. I think the government needs to put laws in place to protect the consumer from this sort of thing. Posted by: Wayne Bosch | Feb 28, 07 11:16 PM

I have just purchased a new vehicle and was sold the insurance. When we were offered it my wife specifically asked, "Does it offer full coverage for anyone" and the answer was yes. After watching your show I now realise that is far from the truth, it will not cover my pre existing condition, diabetes, and therefore the policy is worthless. However you talked about the dealer not being a qualified insurance agent, who would be required to ask questions, I also purchased travel insurance this week and would have thought that the "Qualified agent" would have asked the right questions but he did not. I have now read the small print of this insurance and it also does not cover pre existing conditions and not even he asked. Where is the provincial and federal control over this, I cant believe that this is allowed to go on. It needs to be stopped, what can we do ? Posted by: Robert Farr | Feb 28, 07 11:54 PM

What a one sided story this has turned out to be. They paid out on a death benefit that I am aware of with no complications. it was fast and easy( Pretty hard to buy fire insurance when your house is already burning) It is unfortunate when we are faced with the media trying to scare people away from everything. Let me ask CBC this. Do you sell advertising on your network for profit. Posted by: Brian | Mar 1, 07 12:32 AM

I appreciate your bringing out these points to every Canadian. As posted by the Insurance Agent, my advice to every Canadian is DONT buy any insurance along with any product. Buy pure Life Insurance. It’s safe and cheap. You will undergo all underwriting procedures before being covered. Any underwriting done after the event will surely make you to lose your money. If you have adequate Life insurance, you won’t bother about other types of 'small' insurances offered on the telephone on your credit cards and other credit life insurances. Government should do something about this. Posted by: Sina Adebiyi | Mar 1, 07 12:46 AM

I saw your program tonight which I thought was really sad for the parties involved. In saying that I do believe it is the consumers responsibility to know what they are buying and the remember the old saying that "if it seems to good to be true....." THINK ABOUT IT! Posted by: Mike | Mar 1, 07 01:25 AM

In addition to insurances on loans I also have received offers from unions or automobile associations where you have to sign give future access to medical records. They never qualify you for anything until you try to make a claim. When you do make a claim it’s an automatic denial or they dig and make any inference they can from any medical condition they can find. It should be mandatory that they qualify you before they start accepting your money. Like you said in your show, who doesn’t have some type of condition when you get over 40 years of age so it leave a pretty big out for the insurance company. Maybe for another show you can expose travel insurance as well. I bought travel insurance from and it had the same clause about pre-existing conditions. Again no pre-qualifying a person before they take your money and if you read the fine print, their claims of coverage of up to millions of dollars drops down to a maximum of $20,000 if you don’t belong to a provincial medical health care plan. Why would that matter if I am buying insurance! Could it be that they really intend to make the government pay for anything that comes? I heard this year where a Montreal man had a heart attack in Mexico and the insurance company wouldn’t approve anything until they had time to check his medical history which may have taken several days or weeks. The wife had to use every line of credit they had after she was given the run around and because they could not stay long because they were paying for everything out of their pocket they traveled back as soon as they could and of course he died soon after. And guess what, no pre-existing condition. My feeling is that the insurance industry are not much better than scam artists. They have a lot of money to influence politicians and hire lawyers and lobbyists so check out the travel insurance and don’t let the stories die until you change something. Find politian’s from all sides to help. Posted by: Jerry Collins | Mar 1, 07 03:15 AM

How do I know if the insurance I purchased is useless and is there any way I can cancel now if it is bogus? The company is First Canadian Insurance Corp. $2650.46 Posted by: Brian Goudreau | Mar 1, 07 06:43 AM

We had insurance like you mentioned last night and we had never before 2004 purchased car life or disability insurance but in 2003 Peter had an accident and in 2004 the car we acquired was in my (Brenda) name so we decided due to circumstances to purcase this insurance just to be safe. In 2006 I took sick leave from work and subsequently filed for LTD and in the process we decided to claim the disability (monthly payments) insurance. At that time I had to have forms filled out by my employer and by my doctor (at our expense) and the insurance company denied my coverage due to a technicality involving the date of signing for the insurance and refunded my premiums. This has not been our first nor last eye opener on insurance since my husband had his accident. We were always very careful and somewhat insurance poor over the years. We finally came to the conclusion that the only way to collect from some of these companies was to be dead - can't argue with that. Your show last night certainly was an eye opener for that scenario. I was also very surprised to find out the profit margin for the dealerships. I truly believe that this process is now a money making scam for all involved (except the consumer) as it is far cheaper to sell insurance without asking any questions and the cancel and refund the policy cost the minute a claim is made. The whole process should face some type of legal process and be abolished or fixed to protect the consumer. I would like to see the statistics on policies sold, policies canceled when claims are made and numbers of actually claims that get settled in favour of the consumer. Posted by: Peter | Mar 1, 07 06:47 AM

I watched your program last night and was not surprised because it's the same thing with the disability insurances that car dealers sell. My husband has been off sick since March 2006 and we have been begging and fighting for each payment. We think it's a good idea to buy insurance at a very high cost but would be better off to keep the $2000. in case off sickness we could make a few payments. These companies just want your money but don't want to honor their contracts. Christine lavigne Posted by: Christine Lavigne | Mar 1, 07 07:22 AM

I work in the personal injury law field and I can tell you most insurance is vaporware. LTD's do not exist, you are better off buying lotto tickets. Some of the crooked insurance only covers the last two months of the loan. But it is not the insurance companies, its the right wing governments that accept their bribe/lobby donations and make laws intended to enrich the insurance industry. Posted by: John Guthro | Mar 1, 07 07:40 AM

How can these dealers be selling this insurance when they aren't licensed insurance agents? The government should put a stop to this immediately. (I am not in the business). Posted by: Rick | Mar 1, 07 08:24 AM

Thank you CBC Marketplace. I am a daughter of one of the men highlighted in this episode. You portrayed what happened well and I hope this will help to educate others out there. All my Father wanted was a reliable vehicle (the one he was replacing was unfit for the road). My Father did read the fine print. He knew he was not considered "insurable" due to his health. He questioned this and was given an answer which he took at face value. Which in hind sight was a mistake. There are many, many educated professionals in the insurance industry. They have put their time and money into becoming licensed to sell insurance. How is it a car salesman can sell this? I would not go to an insurance agent to buy a car...why buy insurance from a car salesmen. This practice is also an insult to those in the insurance industry. Unlicensed people (therefore unregulated) should not be able to sell any insurance. Let the professionals do it. I am hoping that exposing this type of insurance selling will start the ball rolling in making change happen. In order to sell insurance a person must be licensed but at the very least the policies are underwritten BEFORE the insurer pays for it. Seems to me I was told I was insurable for my Life Insurance BEFORE I started paying for it....why isn't this the same way? Lisa Jones (Nagel) Posted by: Lisa Jones | Mar 1, 07 08:29 AM

I believe you will find this applies to any insurance package that you do not have to qualify for medically before you get it(except some forms of group insurance, as you would have at work). You either qualify when you buy or when you need it, but it's a bit late when you are sick or dead to find out if you qualified. Posted by: greg panke | Mar 1, 07 08:54 AM

I did work for a while in life insurance business for a while, until I became rather disappointed with the industry as of whole. I could not lie anymore and look people in the eye. Insurance business is not the most honest endeavour around, this almost always happens, when you have industry policing itself being accountable to no one. It does make a perfect union with car business, don't you think? Posted by: Hannu Palovuori | Mar 1, 07 08:59 AM

How awful those dealerships and insrance companies can get away with that....and there are no regulations anywhere to protest the consumer!!!! I have never had to endure trying to retrieve insurance through death, but I am currently trying to collect on a "disability" insurance claim that was purchased through a car dealership....and it's near impossible!!! With all of the letters, documents, medical reports, etc. supplied from my physicians.....the insruance company feels they are the ones who can decide if I could work or not!!!! They can manipulate anything....and they know that most of us can't afford to fight them in court....so they usually always win. Hopefully some regulations will be put in place to monitor insurance companies. I personally have spent a lifetime insuring every loan I ever had.....insuring my home, my vehicle....and this is the first time I have ever had to try to collect on a claim. I soon found out that insurance is great while you're paying it, but trying to collect it is near impossible!!!! Posted by: Donna Bursey | Mar 1, 07 09:12 AM

I noticed that this episode focused on a few life insurance claims that were denied. I'm certain that there are millions of dollars paid each year to the estates of people that purchased life insurance on their car loans. Why was that not mentioned? The reporter asked for data on how many claims were denied each year, why not ask how many claims were paid? I guess the show wouldn't be as interesting if the entire story were told, it's much more interesting to only hear the negative parts. I often enjoy Marketplace but I would prefer if this episode showed the whole picture. Posted by: David Ramsay | Mar 1, 07 10:18 AM

40% & 45% commission to the dealer. Posted by: Dealer Greed | Mar 1, 07 10:36 AM

I have been in the life business for some time now, and it always floored me that a car salesperson is allowed to sell a product that provincial regulators tell me i need to maintain a licence for!!!!. when it comes to life insurance, if it seems too good to be true it usually is, contact a LICENCED life broker, he or she is required to maintain continued education, we have to take courses, write examsand are members of professional organizations. All the best Posted by: peter | Mar 1, 07 10:37 AM

Shame you targeted only one Credit Insurance Company, there are many of them out there. Lets not forget the old addage"Buyer Beware" Anyone with a pre-existing condition must be aware that they run the risk they could be turned down for Insurances any any payouts of Insurances. Remember as well its the Car Dealers selling this insurance. Posted by: Coleen | Mar 1, 07 10:47 AM

You Guys kill me!!!!! Perhaps you should have looked into all the death and disability claims that credit insurance has PAID. What a one sided story...would love to see the other side of this, but no, you guys always gave to attack the auto industry. Posted by: Susan | Mar 1, 07 10:47 AM

Good stuff. When you finish with credit life insurance, take a close look at disability insurance. I was advised by my Doctor to 'not work' on August 8th 2006 after several seizure episode that took me to emergency by ambulance. My life started to unwind instantly. I am self employed. That's why I took the policy years ago. Not only was I denied the coverage I had purchased, but the insurance company required that I continue my monthly payments despite NO INCOME. I am now $45,000.00 into my RRSPs just to live. I support a 3 year old grand daughter and myself. People beware. Insurance companies will not take the Doctor's reports, the MRIs (I have had 2) the EEGs ( I have ad 2) or the ongoing health conditions (Ihave had 1 more seizure since applying for disability). In despare I told my Doctors I must work- there is no option. The insurance company's delay tactics have beaten me down. I will pursue payments for the period I stayed off work, but my employment situation has worsened from being away for so long. Buy a rental property before you buy any insurance. If I had, I'd have income to see me through this rough time. It should be illegal to sell a product that can not be cancelled. Posted by: Barbara Mills-Weselake | Mar 1, 07 10:53 AM

I am a Financial Services Manager within the auto industry, I have offered and will continue to offer creditor life insurance in an ethical, and professional manner with confidence. Part of that ethical manner is full disclosure. I do indicate and encourage all customers to read and understand the documents they sign and if they are uncomfortable or don't wish to purchase the product then that's fine. All insurance is optional and for our customers that opt for the coverage many of them and their families are grateful to have had and used that insurance. I'm disappointed that this story didn't include any situations to that effect. I understand that in this day and age that bad news sells and sensationalism really sells but to not show both sides of the story is not indicative as to how the vast majority of business is done. My question is what happens to a customer and their family, that after seeing this program choose not to purchase the coverage, and would have qualified for it? Posted by: Alis Larson | Mar 1, 07 10:58 AM

I think it's highway robery and I believe that the government should force the insurance to recompense these people as a penalty. The person selling them should also be accounted Posted by: Gert Boulette | Mar 1, 07 11:41 AM

I find this very upsetting that these insurance comp. can get away with this. Our Gov. should make them re-inburse the peiople that were affected. They should also hold the seller/dealer accountable. The forms should have this in big bold letter and not fine print. I knoew a sale is a sale but where is honesty. Posted by: Gert. Boulette | Mar 1, 07 11:45 AM

After seeing the show, I expected a response of outrage and disgust at a company that was too spineless to even defend itself on the air. I was not expecting letters backing up these companies and accusing the show of sensationalism and poor journalism. This subject was no doubt a juicy carrot for a show such as Marketplace, where two of the most villified professions, car and insurance salesman, seemingly come together. I loved the fact that they showed the dealer who wouldn't sell the insurance. They should have showed his dealership. Business would be booming. The worst things is that my father's legacy will be how he made it onto TV. My father led a charmed life and was loved and respected by everyone he ever met. He was president of the Rotary Club, started a scholarship that has since been named after him and was the absolute best father a guy could ask for. He should be on TV for those things, celebrated for the exemplary life he led and the four kids he and his loving wife raised. He does not deserve to be a warning for the "Buyer Beware" crowd, a lesson about shady companies operating in the grey area of the law. He deserves better. I send this to you people who had the gall to defend an industry that uses pressure tactics and fear mongering as a tool in peddling their wares. Companies that would rather give a widow's claim money to lawyers as payment to fight drawn out and expensive court cases. Finally, as a nation we laugh at the USA for their lack of Health Care, yet some states have put a stop to this while we seemingly support it. Posted by: Scott Harrigan | Mar 1, 07 11:51 AM

Not one of these men died of an auto, hunting airplane or plain accident all passed away from their pre-existing medical condition. The policy, has limitations that are listed. Read the limitations and decide whether you can use it or not. Every insurance company tries to satisfy interested consumers. Those with preexisting health conditions can buy coverage to protect against accidental death not associated with their current health issues. In denied cases premiums were returned to those that did not qualify. (Scott) indicates “ I know dad thought he was covered” even though in the very same conversation he mentions how insurance poor the family was because of the health issues. You have touched on a issue that when viewed from the side of the grieving families looks like the Auto industry is heartless and money grubbing. You needed to mention the individuals who pointed out the short falls or the conditions “fine print” were the individuals that actually sell the product, not the front line salesman who offer it. These products work. CBC did not once show the other side of the issue for which this insurance has helped pay the bills it was intended to cover. I would think if Marketplace worked harder to view the whole issue you may have found that more consumers benefit from having this product then are unhappy with it. Posted by: Steve | Mar 1, 07 12:05 PM

Unfortunately the general population does not seem to be aware that you do NOT need to take the creditor insurance. You can go to another source. Creditor insurance is a declining benefit plan sold by untrained people. Always contact a qualified, licensed professional about any insurance. The stories told here are part of the reason why insurance people do not want the banks to get any more access to insurance. They botch up what they do now. Posted by: Robert Caswell | Mar 1, 07 12:08 PM

How can Marketplace target one company? There are many Insurance companies that sell credit Insurance. I sympathize with the people who were not able to collect due to a pre - existing condition, however they did in fact have a pre - existing condition which contributed in some way, shape or form to their deaths. Personally if I am paying $2,000 for insurance & having to sign a legal sales agreement I am going to make sure I know the ins & outs of what I am signing, that way I know what I am covered for. Do these Insurance companies make money, absolutely, do they payout big claims, absolutely. Read your policies, know them, understand them. Then make an informed decision wheter to purchase or not, don't cry after the fact. Posted by: coleen aldred | Mar 1, 07 12:09 PM

As a business manager at a dealer, I take great care to explain all documents before signing. I can recall many situations that the company mentioned paid out loans in full, quickly and compassionately. It is a shame that a few people have not read the documents thoroughly before signing and are aware of pre exsisting problems that may interfere with their claim. There are always two sides to the story people. Posted by: Aaron Bedard, Business Manager | Mar 1, 07 12:10 PM

In response to Brian Goudreau: If you got your policy through a licensed, qualified agent you are probably fine. You can always take it to another agent, hopefully one you know or who you get good references on, for analysis. If you find out there is anything doubtful about it you can ALWAYS cancel it. Send them a letter and then stop paying premiums. How do I know? I am a fully licensed agent and I teach people who have to write an exam to get their license. Posted by: Robert Caswell | Mar 1, 07 12:19 PM

I have read through a number of these comments on last nights program regarding auto/purchase insurance. I have been instructed by my financial advisor, never buy the insurance from any type of dealer. The reasoning behind this is you can top up your personal life insurance to cover the existing loan. I know my home mortgage is insured by me not the lender. A bigger savings to the client and less head aches. Posted by: Harold Wallace | Mar 1, 07 01:03 PM

It is the same with credit card insurance/payment protection plans. I was laid off at one point for a year and a half, and thought I was protected. Little did i know that i was going to have to fax Employment Insurance slips every 2 weeks and bank statements once a month to get them to make payments. Then once Employment insurance runs out.. well they took out the big red stamper and stated that all further claim was denied. The federal government needs to step in and regulate this industry to protect consumers. Posted by: Matt | Mar 1, 07 01:04 PM

Nice work on last night's program. However, car dealers are small potatoes compared to the banks and credit unions. The banks and credit union are doing the same thing except they are doing it with life insurance on mortgages. It includes the same pre-existing condition clauses. And here's the kicker. If the mortgage holder happens to pay off more than what the mortgage schedule says he or she needs to and then dies, IF the insurance company pays, they will pay more to the bank then the actual amount owing on the mortgage. The bank keeps the extra and the dead guy got to pay the premiums for it. Posted by: Dan Hager | Mar 1, 07 01:10 PM

When it comes to insurance you must ask yourself where they will get the money from to make the payouts. The answer is simple; "out of your pocket". The next question should be; "And where does the money come from to operate their fancy offices and pay their salaries plus the costs of administering the insurance system, do the investigations, etc.?" And the answer will be; "Out of your pockets". Put the amount of money aside as you'd otherwise be paying in premiums into your own savings account and have it available in the event that you run into a problem of some kind; you'll be, on average, better off. Posted by: Ed Grant | Mar 1, 07 01:13 PM

One other thing. One of the persons featured in the program noted that his father was told he had to take the insurance to qualify for the loan or lease, or at least a reduced rate. If this is true, it may be cause for legal action against the dearlership as this is considered 'tied selling' and possibly illegal in that province. In some jurisdictions it is illegal for a lender to leverage the sale of an insurance product against approval on a loan or a reduced or discount rate on the loan. It would be worth exploring. Posted by: Dan Hager | Mar 1, 07 01:18 PM

Folks, whether they be car salesmen/ dealerships, insurance people, etc are not going to spend time with you if there is not some kind of profit in it for them. Before signing on for "insurance", whether it be life, disability or anything else, go home and call a bona fide insurance company and see what it will cost to take out a policy from them. The sale pitch of insurance, undercoating / rust-proofing, paint /fabric protection usually occurs right after you and the sales-person has come to some agreement on the purchase price. At this point you have made the decision that this is going to be your vehicle, so you are more vunerable when they pitch these "extras" to you. There is a BIG mark-up / profit margin on these items, so they will do their best to use any angle to have you purchase these. Mind you, when the salesman offers to sell you insurance and you say "You know, I think I will hold off on signing this purchase agreement until I go home and look into this (whether it is an insurance, or whatever)". Now THIS they won't want to hear. Not only does this give you time to look into the issues, but they also realize that it gives you additional time to re-think the whole purchase! Once you walk out the door, they have no guarantee that yuo are going to return. The same goes for the "additional" insurance that rent-a car companies sell. Collision insurance sure is nice if you write off the vehicle, however make sure whether or not your credit card already offers this coverage before signing the contract. If you sound like you are not 100% sure, the salesperson will most likely impress upon you that if you have an accident and your credit card company does not cover it - you personally will be liable for the repairs. Before you know it you have agreed to spend $20+/day for insurance that you may not have needed and the company will have had another profitable sales contract! Posted by: G. Jacobson | Mar 1, 07 02:42 PM

The best way to avoid any surprises with insurance is to have personal coverage. Apply for personal, not creditor coverage when purchasing a product using a loan (ie. house, car etc...). Consumers need to wise up and realize that if something like insurance is relatively low cost - there must be a reason. While insurance provided a large death benefit for a relative modest cost, it is not out of line to pay 10% salary towards insurance premiums - it all depends on what is inteneded to cover and how much of a liability is being insured. If an insurance company does not establish your eligibility for insurance prior to you accepting the policy, then the consumer has to realize they will establish it later - usually at time of death. This is where the consumer (or beneficiary of the consumer) feels betrayed because if there were health issues prior to acceptance the compnay will not pay the benefit. Consumers will spend hours driving around a city to shop for the best deal on TV's and research them ad nauseum on the internet, yet when it comes to insurance (and investments, I might add) which are probably the most important purchases they will every make, they spend no time to get educated. Blaming insurance companies, banks, etc...will not be effective. Consumers need to take control, get educated and deal with "licensed' professionals. Posted by: consumer advocate | Mar 1, 07 02:48 PM

CBC focused on 3 families who were denied claims, but I am curious to know how many claims were paid by Industrial Alliance in 2006 alone. That part of the story never seems to be mentioned, further skewing the story against the Life insurance product. Also keep in mind that if you bought a life and/or disability product from a dealership, you can cancel at ANY time by written letter to Industrial Alliance, and obtain a pro-rated refund. CBC-please give viewers the proper information to make an informed decision. My condolences to the families shown in the story. Posted by: Quinn | Mar 1, 07 02:49 PM

As I do find this to be very sad for the denied claiments, I would like to state that when you purchase something you need to read the fine print! What happens when we buy cell phones? More than not I hear about people stuck with plans and extra charges they never knew they had. If CBC wants to attack the Insurance and Financial Services why stop there? CBC should attack Health Care, ICBC auto insurance, Banks, Cell phone companies, computer dealers, etc. In my opinion the bottom line of the story is read before you buy. This is not the insurance companies fault nor the Car dealership....Sincerely Disappointed in this display of one-sidedness. Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 1, 07 02:57 PM

Can anybody name a life insurance policy that pays when the cause of death existed before the policy was purchased? Isn't it common sense that you can't insure a condition that already exists? If that wasn't the case wouldn't people with critical illnesses be buying life insurance like crazy, and all the insurance companies be going broke? And not everyone with a pre-existing condition dies from that condition. Someone with diabetes could die from unrelated cancer, in which case the policy would pay. This is why I quit being a reporter. The media twists stories and gives fragmented information, putting people at risk. Pre-existing conditions apply to all kinds of insurance, as it should. However, the report focused on car dealers, an easy target, to gain as much hype as possible...weak journalism. What will they report on next..."You Can't Buy House Insurance As Its Burning Down"...what a scandal! Posted by: Colin | Mar 1, 07 03:14 PM

NEVER EVER buy insurance on products, loans, cars, etc at the store/dealer location. If you feel you need the peace of mind that the loan will be covered in case of death, or illness,take out a term policy covering the duration of the payment schedule. Use a reputable insurance company with a reputable, independent insurance agent to help you. Posted by: Susan Walma | Mar 1, 07 03:16 PM

Hi I am an insurance agent and I watched your program on credit insurance. I found it very interesting. I was wondering if you knew or if you could find out whether the mortgage insurance offered at the banks is the same type of coverage and proposes the same complications. I know that what they offer is post-claim underwriting. So I would be curious to see if the same issues of non-payment arise with their coverage. Do banks ask all the questions?Or explain the product that they are offering? Thank you for your assistance with these questions. Christine Posted by: Christine Lisle | Mar 1, 07 03:19 PM

This program was biased to the point that it took the whole "problem" way out of proportion. It makes no difference as to when the underwriting process takes place. if you HAVE a disease, and you DIE BECAUSE OF IT...why would anyone insure you? Its common sense. So you have Cancer, and you die of Cancer, why would any insurance company cover the payments? Chances are that you will die related to that illness. However, the insurance company ASSUMES THE RISK that you could die under any OTHER circumstance...hence the whole point of insurance. So, if you had Cancer, but you died becuase you got into a car accident, or you fell off a bridge then, it would be fair to say that those kinds of deaths. I would also like to know the amount of claims that WERE paid out, comapared to those that weren't becuase of pre-existing conditions. I also am willing to bet there were more cases of people WHO HAD pre-existing conditions but died of reasons not related to the illness, and the insurance was still payed out. I do feel bad for the ones who were not able to recover their losses and I would be angry as well, however, why would anyone sign a contract without reading a contract first. I think this product is great, and that if you have a disease you should think to yourself, why would anyone pay my insurance amounts if I died of something that I already have? Posted by: James | Mar 1, 07 03:24 PM

This one-sided, misleading story is what needs to be investigated. Imagine if no one bought credit life insurance based on CBC's recommendation. What percentage of people would take the time and effort to get life insurance from another source? I think 10% would be a high estimate. That would leave thousands of people, who would have been paid under their claims, without any coverage. Not everyone dies from a pre-existing condition. CBC may have just destroyed thousands of lives, and they did it because of greed. They did a one-sided, sensationalized story for one reason, viewership. With viewership comes advertising. Advertising pays the bills and the huge CBC salaries. The story isn't the insurance and auto industries' misrepresentation and greed. Its the media that's guilty of what it preaches against and they do it right under the public's nose. I'm currently in the auto industry and I used to be a news reporter. The media is by far more corrupt. The news media's only interest is money. They get it through hype, and they'll twist any story to get it, no matter who or how many innocent people they hurt along the way. Posted by: Colin | Mar 1, 07 03:50 PM

I checked with my Credit Union about the insurance I carry on a Line of Credit and my car loan. I did not read the small print either and was a bit surprized to find out that the insurance benefit is not payable within the first 6 months if I pass away from an pre-existing health condition. I have diabetes, so this is this is relevant to me! At least after 6 months I am fully covered. I guess all I have to do is stay healthy for another 5 months!! Thank you for bringing this to my attention. At least now I know the limitations of my policy. Posted by: Brenda | Mar 1, 07 03:51 PM

I previously worked for an automotive finance company and saw hundreds of life claims that were approved with little or no push back from the insurer. Those that were declined were usually done so due to a pre-existant condition. All insurance policies that I have ever read specificially exclude pre-existant condtions. Yes, it is a shame when a family loses a loved one and then finds out insurance that was paid for doesn't pay... but let's be fair. Read the documents, understand the reality. Posted by: Rick T | Mar 1, 07 03:53 PM

I used to be an independant life insurance salesman. Don't blame the product. Blame the person at the dealership for not explaining the policy, or better yet, READ YOUR PAPERWORK. Caveat emptor. Insurance underwritten at time of application can be much more expensive. My mother was the beneficiary of a life insurance policy sold at a car dealership. No problems. Too bad Marketplace is always one-sided style journalism. I wonder how many claims Industrial Alliance paid out last year? Posted by: PAUL MOORES | Mar 1, 07 03:54 PM

As an employee of the auto industry and a credit insurance company I embrace the content of this story. Every industry is plagued with individuals who poorly represent the product and/or service they are providing - this type of journalism helps weed them out. Once again we see how important a proper disclosure is - at time of sale. Don't attack the product - it's been around for 40 years. Millions of intellegent people have said "yes" on the merits, coverage, cost and yes, commission associated with it. Also, millions have benefited financially from paid claims. Focus on the individuals that are poorly representing the dealers they work for, the customers they're serving - and clearly - the insurance company they're using. Condolences to the grieving families, you've been mistreated. Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 1, 07 04:01 PM

Insurance companies do cover people with pre-existing conditions and they risk manage the policy having the premium higher to compensate. Having Diabetes I know that eventually (after a long life, I pray) I will most likely die from a complication from the disease. It is not easy to obtain insurance but it is achievable. One of the main factors is that you must take care of yourself. By taking care I have made it 18 years with no side effects from this disease other than some weight gain and borderline hypertension. For items like Diabetes, there should be no pre-existing clause, we buy insurance becasue we have the pre-existing condition and pay higher premiums due to them, so that we can provide for our families fi something should occur. Our government needs to protect consumers with an option for third party mediation, most people do not have the money to pay a fortune to lawyers to fight insurance company's and as we all know, insurance companies have lawyers on the payroll, that do nothing but work to avoid paying out. Posted by: Matt | Mar 1, 07 04:04 PM

I am a Business Manager (actually at one of the dealerships in the "sting"). I find it interesting that, in most of the coverage, the person undercover spoke to sales people on the floor and not the actual people who sell the product, the Business Manager. In fact, the business manager you did speak with offered the customer to take home a copy of the policy to read. Shame on you for not speaking to the right people. It'd be the same as talking to a secretary instead of your lawyer. If the person had talked to me, I would have told him the truth, as I was trained. You also only reported the negative side, not the thousands that do get paid out. Posted by: Business Manager | Mar 1, 07 04:26 PM

As usual I find the media likes to slant Ideas in the interest of creating a Story. I wonder if they have investigated to see how many claims were paid through these insurance programs. Also were the people Informed that if anything else not related to the pre-existing is covered. Liscensed agents that I have dealt with have not disclosed anything to me so I guess I am responsible to read the contract. Wake Up not everyone is trying to decieve people sometimes there is more to the stoty than meets the Eye Posted by: John Peters | Mar 1, 07 04:42 PM

A few years ago my husband passed away from a massive heart attack. We had our vehicle insured by an insurance company. We were asked no med. questions at all. When my husband died they said it was from "pre-existing conditions" because he had diabetes. I fought for over a year with them and could get no where. I hid my suv for a year while I personally tried to convince them they were wrong. I talked to so many people there and they were so nasty. Finally I went to Lou Isfeld motors where we bought the suv, and Lou Isfeld himself went to bat for me. He told the insurance company he would cancel all his business with them if they did not pay me out. Within hours my bank had a cheque for the whole amount. It does pay to fight They are so "Just above the law", blame everyone else, and cannot be trusted. I hope it is alright to let you know this Ann Marie Moore Posted by: Ann Marie Moore | Mar 1, 07 05:07 PM

As a former life insurance agent, I left the industry many years ago because I would not sell something that I would not buy myself. The problem is not limited to unlicensed agents or "fly by night" insurers. I sold a client with a pre-existing condition 2 policies from 2 different high profile, internationally recognized companies. One policy had been in effect for 9 years when my client died. His widow was denied benefits because of the pre-existing condition. After a 4 year legal battle, the company settled for 10% of the face value of the policy and the widow paid her own legal costs. The other policy was creditor insurance on recently purchased equipment. The policy had not even gone into effect at the time of my client's death. Yet the company sent a condolence letter to the widow within 10 days and returned the contract, "paid in full". The point is. No amount of due diligence or "caveat emptor" would have foreseen these two opposite treatments of my clients widow. The problem is really the general decline in business ethics. The onus should not be only the buyer to "read the fine print". The first person we deal with every day is the one in the mirror. If we treated clients with the same respect as we demand for the guy in the mirror, Wendy would have nothing to report. Keep up the good work. Posted by: Jim Snyder | Mar 1, 07 05:27 PM

Your program on credit life highlights a real problem , however it would have been helpful if some information was disclosed on satisfied customers . I consider the different departments of insurance in Canada to be very delinquent in allowing insurance to be sold by non - professionals - this being a much more severe issue when medical questions are not required , and permitting an Insurance Company to refuse a claim based on pre- existing conditions . Time does not permit a long commentary on this subject - however allow me to say that in Ontario and other provinces the out of province medical insurance product has become popular and necessary as OHIP or similar body restricted their coverage -- in my opinion the most misunderstood and abused provision rests with the freedom of interpretation allowing Insurance Companies to use this provision to their advantage , while the average resident may have litttle or no understanding of power of this provision . My input may not be of interest to you as your audience is the consumer . If you are interested in discussing the much larger COMMERCIAL issue of CREDIT INSURANCE being sold to a naive public. I am willing to speak privately with your representative on an unofficial basis . Specifically , where do the profits find a home ? What is the importance of having a CAPTIVE INSURANCE Company in the Caymen Islands or Bermuda owned by a financial institutiom who sells credit insurance ? What is OSFI's responsibility ? Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 1, 07 05:39 PM

To all the people out there who defend the way that these salespeople sell this insurance - give your head a shake! In big business auto, banks, insurance its all about the dollar, the "upsell", my heart goes out to the families in the story and anyone else has has had to go through this. My Father past away a few months ago, and we are now going through the same thing. We had a letter sent back to my mother saying the claim was denied, know she has to find a way to pay back tens of thousands of dollars. If there is a system in place with guidelines to protect the consumer in all these cases, the public would be prtected. The insurance company at the bank my parents dealt with had no problem accepting the insurance payments! In my opinion they are crooked just like the dealers and insurace agents in this story. The gov't must change the laws. Posted by: Tim | Mar 1, 07 05:51 PM

Let me ask you this. If those people HAD NOT purchased the insurance and then passed away who would have been responsible for paying off the loan? The fact is that when they we're declined all of their premium would have been returned to them including the portion that was dealer commission. How about all of the claims that have been paid? Stop being one sided. I cannot believe the the CBC, which is subsidized with our money, has lowered itself to Tabloid Television. If you want proper disclosure start with yourself. Posted by: Doug | Mar 1, 07 06:02 PM

it is really unfair to paint all finance managers and dealerships with the same brush. i wonder why you didnt take the time and effort to interview the families that the credit insurance companies DID PAY IN FULL!!!!i am a finance manager and i do diclose everything to a customer when presenting our insurances and other products for that matter. as well as the terms and fine print and i am so tired of the media and thier scare tactics trying to warn the public on something they dont investigate on both sides. not all dealerships are the same wendy!! there are the honest ones such as my dealership that in 18 years of doing business has never had an issue with a life insurance claim . we pride ourselves here on full disclosure, and just out of curiousty if one of our customers do pass away can their family come to you to payout the loan being as your giving them such great advice. i suggest that in the future you look at both sides of the story. Posted by: kim | Mar 1, 07 06:06 PM

I'm disappointed with the CBC for airing this story as such. It was certainly senationalized for the sake of "provocative tv". I have first hand experience with this as well. My father was a transport driver and died due to a short illness in 2004. His truck was paid for by credit insurance which he purchased with the truck. (a payout of over 175 thousand dollars). The CBC focused on 3 denied claims due to pre-existing conditions which is all clearly stated on the contracts. (of all insurance companies who offer this coverage). ONE SIDED & Sensationalized. Go to www.iaplife.com they will be issuing a statment shortly. ps: did anyone stop to think that Industrial Alliance didn't grant an interview due to the privacy laws in this country??? Think about it. Posted by: Morgan | Mar 1, 07 07:40 PM

I also think that everything was not put into perspective in the show and I am truly sorry for the company and dealers involved. Advice: read your policy and phone the insurance company when some parts of it seem unclear. Usually you have a period to do so and to return the product if you are not satisfied. Posted by: Claudia | Mar 1, 07 07:46 PM

In September 2005 I leased a new car and the disability insurance. I was not told of any preexisting conditon and signed the papers. Paid for more than one year when I became sick, when I applied for the disability payments I was told I should have read the contract as it clearly stated the fact that I was not able to collect as I am a diabetic. I paid over 1200 dollars and would be refunded 400. paid towards my car payments I was told. The car dealerships should explain fully the clauses and that you have only a limited time to cancel. I haven't collected as yet but am still working on the case. Posted by: Valerie | Mar 1, 07 08:57 PM

Just like the media to put things completely offside,here is a good one,will MarketPlace pay off any existing loans,since they are advising the public to not insure our assets,liabilitys.You know the answer.Insurance Companies have been around for a very long time and we believe in this product because of Fear of what could happen and we do not want to leave a burden with our loved ones.Of course there is pre-existing in any policy look at....no matter who underwrites the policy.From any other article that I have read,Consumers are smarter these days and do read fine print,I would not doubt for one moment that the host or the producer,director,or any staff member related to this brodcast has some form of insurance on a existing loan,most likely with mentioned Ins. Co. Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 1, 07 09:38 PM

Your father forgot his glasses, he signed a legal and binding document and you received a FULL refund of premium collected and then you roast the insurance company. Perhaps the CBC should contact the thousands of people who are very grateful that they purchased the OPTIONAL coverage the dealership offered them and ended up saving their credit ratings and their vehicles. Too bad that story doesn't get told. Shame on you CBC, these were not underage children being pushed into a product they knew nothing about. Remember people there is always 2 sides to every story. Posted by: jed | Mar 1, 07 09:53 PM

This is why it is so important to buy coverage that is underwritten at point of application, rather than point of claim. One is far better to be declined coverage for underwriting reasons up front than to find out after the fact that the protection that you depended on to protect your family or yourself was not there when it was needed. This also removes the opportunity to investigate other (albeit less attractive) options. i.e. Setting money aside, discussions with family re. "what if," etc. Any PROFESSIONAL Insurance Broker or Agent will discuss these matters with you. Sometimes that means delivering bad news about coverage not being offered, but at least you know up front. A professional agent will offer some non insurance ideas to you if coverage is not available. Posted by: Anthea | Mar 1, 07 10:17 PM

I am shocked at what the media gets away with. My wife passed away and we were offered life insurance. It was made clear at the time of purchase it was an option. On the bill it stated clearly "optional" insurance. She chose to purchas the life insurance. The dealership person told us that at age 45 the chances of her dieing based on claims provided to them by the Insurance Company were not as high as chances as her collecting the accident and health coverage as her loan was for 66 months. They also explained, that like all insurance policies it would not cover any pre-existing condition that she was being treated for 6 months from the date she was purchasing the car. But, because she was financing 42,358.00 which meant she was adding alot to our existing debt she felt that she should increase her life insurance. At the time I was the sole bread winner and we had 3 kids at home 14,12 and 8. Unfortunately we did collect on this policey. The insurance comany I.A.P. Life. went above and beyond to see the vehicle was paid out in full. My wifes condition was not pre-existing. If it was, we were prepared not to be compensated. Signed. Gratefull Posted by: Winna Smith | Mar 1, 07 11:22 PM

While I think it was really sad that the parties involved were left with bills that were unexpected, did they really think that they would be covered for something that they had before they bought the policy? And when did we not become responsible for ourselves? It's really easy to blame the big insurance company, the dealership etc. but at the end of the day the responsibility falls the individual to know what it is that they are buying. PS: Nice way to slant the story to just one side. There's responsible journalism for you! You are one step away from Jerry Springer. Posted by: David | Mar 2, 07 12:04 AM

Thank you Wendy, for revealing the nightmare that people are going through to collect not only death benefits, but disability insurance. My mother-in-law was denied benefits for her husband, who died of a heart condition but was upfront with the car company when they purchased the insurance, not a problem they were told. Denied pre-existing condition. I am presently fighting with the insurance company. I purchased a vehicle in January 2004 and purchased disability/life insurance for $3,000. In February 2005, 14 months later I was diagnosed with Maltoma of the Stomach. In April of 2006 I made the decision to have radiation treatment for this rare condition and was off work until November 2006. Posted by: Tina | Mar 2, 07 07:07 AM

I was also denied benefits due to a "pre-existing illness". I saw a doctor within six months prior to the commencement date of the contract. I was not asked that question prior to signing up. My hip replacement surgery took place over 3 years after that appointment in Sept. 2003. When I contacted the company I was told that in addition to seeing the doctor within the six month period, applicants should not be taking any any medications of any type. I have been high blood pressure meds for about 8 years so based on any of these things I would not even qualify for their coverage. I work for one of the major automakers and was told by the dealer that as long as I qualify for sick and accident benefits I would be covered by this lease insurance. Posted by: Joe Cator | Mar 2, 07 08:48 AM

Read the contract before purchasing the insurance, it is no ones fault but the customers if they dont take the time to read over the fine print, just because you dont want to take the time to read it over doesnt give anyone the right to blame the insurance companies, ITS YOUR OWN FAULT, read it carefully next time!!! Posted by: Anonymous | Mar 2, 07 11:24 AM

As a licenced insurance broker, I am continually amazed that people with absolutely no education or qualified training are allowed to sell insurance products to consumers in Canada. Anyone extending credit and offering insurance to cover it, and is not a licenced insurance agent should be disallowed from selling that kind of product. Both the Federal Superintendant of Insurance (who governs insurance companies), and the Provincial Superintendant of Insurance, (who governs liceneced individuals) need to be forced to address these issues. The public cannot trust an uneducated, unqualified, unlicenced person to actually put the consumer's interest above their own and fully disclose the fine print of credit insurance. Shame on the insurance companies for being so greedy for profits, that they would put their own reputations on the line and let these "dealers" sell insurance. They have given up the right to any defense when they allowed unlicenced individuals to sell their products. This just one more splendid example of why people need to talk to a licenced insurance agent to buy insurance. Would you accept medical advice from a plumber? Posted by: Kevin | Mar 2, 07 12:09 PM

I should start off by saying that I am an independant insurance broker. This show was simply reinforcing what independant brokers like me have been emphasizing for years, spend your money on a quality product underwritin at day 1. These can still cover a pre-existing condition as long as the company doesn't offer the coverage with an exclusion on that. Before insurers offer with an exclussion they may offer the coverage with a higher premium to offset the risk, and still cover the condition. You would apply and after the insurer assess your situation they would make you an offer for coverage, which clearly states the situation. You can easily get very inexpensive term insurance to cover loans and mortgages that will pay in the event of a claim, provided there is no misleading information by the applicant. The bottom line is to speak to an independant, licensed broker in order to understand what is happening in the market today. They can save you a lot of worrying and even save you money in the long run on premiums by consolidating insurance coverages. Thanks. Posted by: Graham | Mar 2, 07 02:06 PM

ANY group life or sickness or disabity policy will exclude pre-existing health conditions. That includes not just policies sold by car dealers, but also those sold by travel agents, mortgage brokers, etc. Is that not preferable to simply denying a policy upfront to anyone who has a pre-existing health condition? If the people featured in your article had died for reasons unrelated to the pre-existing conditions, would the benficiaries receiving the death benefit proceeds not have felt a little more favourably disposed toward the insurance company? Posted by: Sheldon Rokin | Mar 2, 07 02:39 PM

Thanks to the CBC for doing this report.After watching I discovered that my husband is insured through the same company with our vehicle.It doesn't say much for our country when companies do this to people when they are at their most vulnerable and they don't even give it a second thought. These companies should be held accountable for their actions.This country is full of people who have families and real lives.But it seems that when it comes to big companies such as this one and others we are only a country of numbers and dollar signs.Our country would be lost if it wasn't for consumer watch dogs like marketplace and others who put people before all else and fight for those who can't. Posted by: Doris | Mar 2, 07 02:41 PM

I have read all of these reviews of people who are fuming over the life insurance policies that they have bought from car dealerships. What I think many of you are overlooking is that not all insurance companies work this way, I personally do know of situations where car insurance has been a benefit for many families and without it they would have had there vehicle taken away. I think as a consumer we should properly educate oueselves on the different products that may be out there in the market. I do feel bad for these people that may not have been made aware of the pre exsistinf clause on there contract, but as a society we have been told to read what we sign and car insurance is not the only insurance that we buy with the clause. Mortgage Insurance for example.A good friend of mines husband died of cancer 7 months after buyng a new home and because he did not disclose this information he was not elgiable. My friend was told she would have to continue making payments(which she could not afford)or sell. I do think the program was good but lets look at all asspects of insurance not just the negative because overall it has done positive things for familes then all this negative that we heard about from a handfull of people. I guess there will always be so much to complain about with insuarnce but where would many widows and there children be if there spouses didn't have any? Posted by: M.Williams | Mar 2, 07 03:02 PM

As a agent in the industry I see this on a weekly basis. Whether its a mortgage, car loan, consolidaton loan, the Banks/Credit Unions will force you to take out insurance to cover the loan. This is known as tied selling and is illegal, yet most banks and credit unions get away with it everyday. Hopefully this program will get the consumer and corporate affair's attention and help protect the consumer from being ripped off. The post that James placed is completely wrong. Of course if someone has an illness they will not get insurance, but if they have high blood pressure, high cholesterol,heart murmur, and the underwriting is done at the beginning the insurance company knows the risk and charges accordingly, and will pay the claim. When dealing with the bank their are no questions to assess risk therfore if a consumer die's of a heart attack or stroke,the bank will say, "well.. if we knew you had this(High Blood pressure/cholesteral etc) we wouldn't offer the insurance" therefore here are your premiums back but you owe us for the loan. This is why Underwriting at the beginning is so important. Its not your fault James I can tell your not from the Financial industry. Posted by: Shaun | Mar 2, 07 03:49 PM

Can anybody let me know were you can buy fire,automobile,life or any type of insurance that will cover pre existing conditions???? This company is a well respected insurance company and did not deserve to be painted with this brush full of false information. Posted by: Gord | Mar 2, 07 04:02 PM

What was the common theme in the 3 stories? They didn't read the contract. Before you sign a contract you have a responsibility to fully read and understand that which you are signing. Of course that would be expecting consumers to be responsible for themselves, that's not as popular as blaming the 'big bad corporation'. Posted by: John | Mar 2, 07 05:28 PM

The behaviour of the insurance companies here is deplorable. If the people were going to be denied claim, then why on earth were clients sold these policies in the first place?! Don't give me the argument that people should read the fine print. That's clearly a loophole for the insurance company to slip through come collection time. Seems to be a cash cow in their favour, ie "we have no problem collecting your premiums, but heaven forbid you trying to put forward a claim". Insurance should be sold through regulated professionals. That will raise the profile of the industry. Posted by: Paul Sallmen | Mar 2, 07 06:56 PM

I wish someone would clean up the R.V & Car Dealers and these Used Car Dealers that do Sub Prime someone has to step in and do something and not ONVIC THEY SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN OWN BY DEALERS.We need toughfer laws on Insurance Companys and the people who sell it.Moving on l wish Market place would do somthing on all these old used cars on the road that arn't safe and not good for the enviroment if we want to stop Green Gas this would be a great start Kelly. Posted by: Kelly McGlogan | Mar 3, 07 09:43 AM

I am extremely disappointed in the slant that your program gives into the Automotive Industry. As a former employee of the Ontario Automobile Dealers, I am perplexed as to why you interviewed Bill Davis and not the head of the Associations Dealer Services Division which markets the loan insurances. Bill has absolutely nothing to do with that division and is an ex-politician who is a Government lobbyist on behalf of car dealers. Every credit insurance provider has varying Pre-existing conditions and exclusions. Dealers often change providers so they can sell the BEST coverage’s to their clients with confidence with a fair and reasonably priced product. Auto dealerships range from professionally run operations (which were not shown on the Program), to back-country shysters, like the stores that CBC featured. Millions of dollars in claims are paid every year on behalf of consumers in Ontario. Canadians as a whole are under-insured and it is ultimately the choice of the consumer to take the coverage. Before CBC attacked the Auto sector why not look at the much higher premiums that credit card companies, Banks and credit unions charge their clients. Posted by: Automotive Insider | Mar 3, 07 10:05 AM

PLEASE...PLEASE... CHECK INTO OTHER KINDS OF "LOAN INSURANCES" MORTGAGE... CREDIT CARDS...BANK LOANS ETC. LET'S SEE IF THEY HAVE BEEN PAYING UP. Posted by: A. Jenson | Mar 3, 07 04:06 PM

I am a financial planner (close to retirement so I'm no longer biased) and am licensed to sell insurance. For 20 years I have been exhorting anyone in earshot not to buy loan insurance, mortgage insurance or credit card insurance, on the basis that most people can buy this protection independently at better rates and without the risk of not being paid out. When writing an application, we must ask detailed questions about the applicant's past and present health, lifestyle (smoking, drugs alcohol, hazardous activities etc.) and disclose this to the insurance company. Other than suicide in the first two years, non-disclosure or fraud I haver seen a case of an company not paying the claim. It was good that you told viewers to buy insurance from a licensed broker, rather than a car dealer. Why not investigate the banks' mortgage insurance practices? Here it is sold by DEFAULT, you have to actively decline it or the premiums are included in your payments! Michael R. Conrad CFP, RFP Posted by: Michael R. Conrad | Mar 3, 07 04:11 PM

My Parents bought a car in 2002.They had life insurance on there car loan. There were no qustions to answer he had a heart condition for over 10 years. They never once mentioned anything about his heart condition being a problem, (which they were fully aware of). He was left to beleive that my mother was covered. When my father died in 2006 the Insurance company wouldn't pay the car off due to a pre existing illness. We fought the Insurance Company and we did get the premiums back that he payed in, but my mother was left with having to make the payments. my father died thinking that my mother would be ok and not have to worry about trying to make the car payments. Car dealers are not fulling explain how the insurance they offer work. My Father was under the impression that even with his heart condition he was covered. It upsets me to know that there are a lot of people being taken for a ride. Posted by: Barbara Gillespie | Mar 3, 07 04:46 PM

I'm a business manager at a car dealership. First of all, why did Marketplace go to salespeople for info and not the Business Office? I'm not a car salesman, I'm a trained Business Manager. We take courses regularly on issues covering our services. Whenever I present credit insurances, the customer is told upfront that it is voluntary, has no bearing on loan approval, and that pre-existing conditions must be addressed. Has Marketplace ever thought about looking into the number of times a CUSTOMER has tried to dupe a car dealer / insurance company hoping to fly under the radar. I'm not suggesting those in the story did so by any means, but I have caught a few in my years doing just that. Marketplace, you have done a lot of damage to the car sales industry as well as the consumer. Are you prepared to cover the loans for people who have chosen not to take coverage because of your story? I've been told there's a case in the US that happened to a newspaper for doing this. By the way, we just delivered a new car to a life insurance agent. He bought disability insurance on his loan because he felt it was a valuable product! Posted by: Grant | Mar 3, 07 06:02 PM

I am a licensed life and disability insurance agent. My younger clients, parents of young children, often say they do not need life or disability insurance "yet" because they are too young and healthy to need it, and anyway, they have all that type of insurance at their place of employment. As mentioned by several writers there are several issues to consider. One is being medically assessed at time of purchase of the policy, for positive assurance of the coverage. This order of events buys you future insurability in a good contract. Second issue to consider is portability. An Individual policy will stay with the owners through many mortgages, jobs and vehicle purchases. Thirdly, to avoid being declined for insurance coverage later in life, buy guaranteed renewable Individual coverage while you are healthy. There are contract exclusions and limitations in Group, Association, Bank Mortage and Creditor Insurance that compare unfavourably with Individual coverage. The consumer usually does not have access to the Group Master Contract, but merely sees a summary. Contact a licensed agent to discuss all the factors. Fay Oppenheim. Calgary Posted by: Fay Oppenheim | Mar 3, 07 06:05 PM

When we got the insurance I worked midnights that had had a shift start at 11:00pm. I got hurt about 1 hour into the shift after signing the insurance agreement with the dealer that night. And because WCB pays first the first night of wage loss of an injury and I was off for two days , it apparently voided the agreement and could not be claimed againstlater when I was on a sever disablity claim due to illness unrelated. Since when do you have to tell insurance companys that you pay for that you had a WCB claim? Posted by: Sharon Godoy | Mar 3, 07 11:18 PM

I have taken the time to read through most of the comments posted here about your program. I think you have accomplished what you set out to do, scare consumers. You have also presented only one side of the story and only talked about three individuals that unfortunatly were not covered. The question is, if they had purchesed Life Insurance from a licenced Agent, would they have been covered? Most likely not! I was a Licenced Agent in the past, however I changed careers a number of years ago. What upsets me even more about your program is the so called professional who came right out and discredited the credit Insurance industry, even though his career now is to attend court as an expert witness in defending policy holders rights against the personal insuance industry! And your program does not mention any problems or concerns regarding their conduct. Maybe your saving that issue for another program! In closing I do not often watch programs on CBC because in the past when it comes to Politics or issues regarding consumers such as this one, it seems that you are always taking one side and have in my mind never reported the stories from both sides, case in hand! Thats too bad! Many yearsago I read a book about "The Merchant's of Fear" refering to the Insurance Companies, I think someone should write that book about you! Maybe someone will ..... Posted by: Bill | Mar 4, 07 08:17 AM

I am an insurance broker dealing with life and health insurance related products and each and every licensed life insurance agent or broker knows all of the pitfalls of buying this insurance and in fact this is the reason for many negative opinions regarding the insurance industry. People such as are in these car dealerships, often say "would you like your car loan paid off if something happens to you" when you are signing your paperwork and you say, sure - and end up signing the papers having the premium paid. However, these representatives from the dealership are not licensed in any way to sell insurance and should be outlawed from doing so. Customers that purchase this insurance very seldom read the "small print" and are not aware that the underwriting is done only at the time of a claim - if your claim is not approved at that time, you may get your premiums back. Always, always - deal with a licensed insurance agent or broker - the underwriting is done when you apply, and at least you know what coverage you will have, and if you are not approved - at least you know that. The sad part about this is that the banks are even bigger than car dealerships in running these types of things - with mortgages, term loans, car loans and lines of credit. It seems quick and easy when you are in the office to sign the paper and move along with life. One word of advice - ALWAYS DECLINE THE INSURANCE OFFERED BY A BANK OR CAR DEALERSHIP. If you want insurance coverage - go to a licensed insurance agent or broker and get "real" insurance. Lay the blame where it belongs- with the car dealers and the banks. Tim - Brampton. Posted by: Tim | Mar 4, 07 11:34 AM

As a Life and Health Insurance Broker, I constantly tell my clients - Do Not - buy insurance products from the banks or credit cards or car companies. On the other hand, there are some who seem to believe the "Bank" or "Car Dealership" won't do them wrong - until it's too late. First of all, none of these people are licensed in insurance products. Secondly, what they don't tell you is that all the underwriting is done when you die and can go back to the day you were born to gather information on your medical history. If there is anything you didn't disclose on the application, they have the right to refuse payment upon death. It's a very sneaky way of doing things. Whenever I sell a product to a client, I personally deliver the policy and we go through it line by line, page by page to ensure there is no misunderstanding or hidden clauses. If you want more information, please go to my site at ssrisk.com. I'd be pleased to answer any questions you have. Posted by: DMALEK@ROGERS.COM - DORIS MALEK | Mar 4, 07 11:35 AM

I have also come head to head with an insurance group policy. Here they offerred an extra $50,000.00 coverage. Apart from taking the opportunity to add more questions and getting an up to date health profile on us they also required us to provide a blood sample, which allowed them to do any tests they choose, without getting our approval. I asked that that they perform any tests as long as they are only tests that they specify beforehand, this was rejected. The form that I was asked to sign for the blood test, specifically did not allow any changes to the form. I refused to sign and they did not agree to being more specific. I beleive that genetic testing may be around the corner. I had a similar problem with obtaining critical care insurance from Great West Life. Their form specified that they could do any investigation they choose on me. When I asked that this be ammended to be limited to checks that are relavant to the underwritting, I was told that this was a standard clause used by all insurance companies and it can not be changed. Again all I wanted was some responsibility on their part in not doing things without reasonable need. In both cases I had to go without the added insurance. Posted by: Al | Mar 4, 07 12:40 PM

The program is biased, very one-sided - doesn't tell the whole story, then again, it has to entertain. I work as a sales consultant at a premium brand dealer. Customers tend to lie, the people on the show were extreme examples. What about the other side, the countless individuals who have benefited from such life insurance. I don't advocate nor sell any kind of insurance, but it is the responsibility of the consumer to know what they are buying. Read the contract, don't just sign. The reality is that people don't like to read what they sign, it takes 'too much time'. Alright. To blame auto dealers is one-sided. Consumers have responsibility as much as the dealer does. Before you sign, read the contact. Posted by: John Loewen | Mar 4, 07 01:09 PM

Be careful CBC. Do not allow your story to let people believe that Post Claim Insurance is a scam, or fraudulant because it is not. I am a life insurance agent with London Life and I always recommend poeple apply for traditional, personal life insurance to cover their debt commitments. However, this is not always possible as many people are uninsurable due to their health history. Post Claim life insurance may be their only option to try to get some type of insurance on their debt. Deaths are not always caused by pre-exisiting health conditions and Credit Life Insurance, if affordable may just be the best product available to help family members from financial ruin. Posted by: Matt | Mar 4, 07 02:48 PM

I AM ABSOLUTELY SICK OVER THIS STORY. I GIVE MY SYMPATHY TO THE FAMILIES, BUT HELLO...READ WHAT YOU SIGN, DON'T FORGET YOUR GLASSES AND ASK THE QUESTIONS IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOU ARE SIGNING. I USED TO WATCH MARKETPLACE ALL THE TIME, NOT ANYMORE. I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO IAP'S COMMENTS IF THE MEDIA DOES NOT BLOW IT TOO OUT OF PROPORTION. I WOULD CHALLENGE CBC TO DO A STORY ON THE HAPPY FAMILIES WHO HAD INSURANCE OR THE DISABLED GUY WHO COULD NOT MAKE HIS CAR PAYMENT BEACAUSE HE DID NOT BUY THE INSURANCE DUE TO YOUR WATCHING YOUR SHOW!!!!MOVE OVER JERRY SPRINGER!!! Posted by: Disgusted in CBC | Mar 4, 07 09:10 PM

This posting got me laughing: "First of all, why did Marketplace go to salespeople for info and not the Business Office? I'm not a car salesman, I'm a trained Business Manager. We take courses regularly on issues covering our services. Whenever I present credit insurances, the customer is told upfront that it is voluntary, has no bearing on loan approval, and that pre-existing conditions must be addressed." This assurance in the face of the program which documented quite clearly that the 3 people who were denied claims were not told this by the business managers involved. I challenge this business manager to explain to readers what government license he/she or any other business manager has to prove that they have had the training that they say they have. Of course there is no license and there is no requirement to have any training. The only training the dealer wants to make sure they get is how to close a consumer on all the extras sold in the business office. What really stood out in this story is the failure of the life company to publish how many claims that they have paid on this stuff and by contrast how many claims are denied. Here is the U.S., the Congress would subpoena these bumbs and demand answers. The fact that they won't disclose the information is a clear indication of what is going on. Good work Marketplace! Posted by: Bob Barney | Mar 4, 07 09:58 PM

As a LICENSED life insurance advisor in Canada I would like to applaud your show. This is something that all of us in this industry try to explain to our clients from an educated and licensed perspective. I only hope that you will air this episode again and that your news broadcast will do an indepth story on it. The insurance industry has long lobbied the government to keep this type of 'insurance' and that which the banks sell out of the marketplace because as someone else on this blog noted they are not licensed. While it is very important for all of us to read the fine print most people trust the so called professionals that they are dealing with and for that there should be some accountability. The one and only piece of advice that I can give to anyone reading this or watching your episode is to discuss proper life, critical illness and disability coverage with a licensed insurance advisor. Posted by: Paula | Mar 4, 07 10:30 PM

This is in response to Gord's question whether any ins company will pay on preexisting conditions. The obvious answer is no. HOWEVER, when applying for individual coverage through a licensed insurance professional a potential client is taken through FULL underwriting to determine whether they are insurable. This is simply not the case with mortgage, car loan or creditor insurance. Is your mortgage insured by the bank Gord? How many health questions were you asked when you applied for coverage? Posted by: paula | Mar 4, 07 10:40 PM

For me it wasn't the possible loss of a car it was my home. For all our married years my husband and I chose mortgage insurance through our major Canadian Bank. We had a good relationship with our banker, so when the insurance was offered we had no reason to doubt the credibility. When my husband unexpectedly died at a relatively young age (46) from a heart attack; on top of the enormous grief I also faced loosing my home and found myself counting on the generousity of family and friends to hang on for 6 months while I waited for the insurance company to decide if my husband had died from an pre-existing condition. Our banker had not advised us of this procedure when they offered the coverage and when I tried to ask the banker for support I was told that "privacy laws prevented them from getting involved now that Rob was died". I did ultimately get the insurance but I firmly believe the only reason I did was because a lawyer friend respresented me through letters to the underwriter and one of the forms requested from a doctor contained errors. I do not think I got the pay out for the simple reason that when had agreed to sign up neither my husband nor I had any pre-existing conditions, we were not out to "get them" we were simply looking to protect each other in the unlikely event of one of us dying. Posted by: Genny Ross | Mar 5, 07 12:09 AM

wendy please investigate the insurance companies. My mom had coverage and when she was killed in a car accident my dad was denied any payment. They said because she had a bout with skin cancer ( a spot of skin below her eye) which was cleared up 2 years before that; this made the policy unpayable. please please to much bull and heart ache. tx Posted by: k malone | Mar 5, 07 01:13 AM

I bought disability insurance when I leased my new vehicle at a dealership. I also financed the insurance in my lease. Bad mistake! I read over the policy, found I didn't even meet the requirements and cancelled the insurance the next day. The Insurance Company gave a full refund. The cheque was made out to me and the dealership. I was instructed by the insurance company to endorse the cheque and give it to the dealership. Great I thought. Not so!! The dealership been paid back in full for the policy and I have to keep paying the preiums,GST/PST and finance charges on this insurance for the next 5 years. Remember, they've already been paid back IN FULL!! I will, however, according to the dealership, be reinbursed at the end of the 5 year lease, but only the face of the insurance--not the GST and PST. And the finace charges over that period--of course, goes to the dealership. I find it hard to believe this is even legal. I've called every agency I can think of--their advice, "Get a lawyer". Isn't that like putting good money after bad? Posted by: Charlie | Mar 5, 07 02:00 AM

I AM THE SALES MANAGER FOR ONE OF THOSE DEALERS ON YOUR SHOW...I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY YOU ONLY NAME THE BAD DEALERS NOT THE GOOD...MY F/I MANAGER TOLD THE CUSTOMER THE TRUTH YET YOU GIVE THEM NO CREDIT....YOU ARE ONLY ONSIDED...GIVE THE GOOD DEALERS A BREAK.... Posted by: ROB GOWE | Mar 5, 07 11:02 AM

I have been a licenceed life insurance agent for over 30 years. Creditor life and disability insurance have been available for more than 40 years. All these policies are generally overpriced and have many pitfalls. Before forking out from a few hundred to two or three thousand dollars, plus interest, consult with licenced broker or agent and you will find better coverage for less money, or find out you are uninsurable, upfront, before you spend your money. The indirect, dealer provided contracts should have a 30 day cooling off period to permit a sber second look, at a major expense. John Moir Posted by: John Moir | Mar 5, 07 02:06 PM

Please keep in mind that it's the car dealers and their sales people who are most at fault here but consumers cannot plead ignorance all the time either. I am an insurance broker and I see this every day. I tell people to decline this stuff and the mortgage insurance offered by their bank as well for the same reasons. But time after time they take it becasue it's cheaper. Posted by: Darren | Mar 5, 07 02:37 PM

I AM THE FINANCE MANAGER @ A CAR DEALERSHIP IN ONTARIO @ AM COMPLETLY APPAULED THE A NEWS SHOW SUCH AS THIS WOULD NOT BE MORE INTERESTED IN BOTH SIDES OF THE STORY HERE.I FEEL FOR THE 3 FAMILIES OUTLINED ON YOUR SHOW HOWEVER,HOW ABOUT READING THE FINE PRINT???ANYONE WITH ANY PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS KNOWS THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE COVERED FOR THIS KIND OF COVERAGE!!!AS THE ONE GENTELMAN SAID ABOUT HIS FAMILY BEING INSURANCE POOR ALL THEIR LIVES!?!I WISH THAT YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THE FULL STORY ABOUT THE REAL BENEFITS OF PURCHASING CREDIT INSURANCE,BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THERE ARE ALOT OF VERY HAPPY PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO DID PURCHASE IT & THAT ARE GLAD THAT THEY DID.I DON'T THINK THAT THESE PEOPLE SHOULD BE SO TICKED WITH THE DEALERSHIPS & INSURANCE COMPANIES AS THEY SHOULD BE WITH THEMSELVES AS ALL THE FIGURES ARE LAID OUT IN PLAIN PRINT ON EVERY CONTRACT THAT OUR CUSTOMERS SIGN IN FULL DISCLOSURE.I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO MENTION THAT I GET FAR MORE CALLS TO MY OFFICE ASKING IF THE CUSTOMERS HAVE PURCHASED INSURANCES AS THEY HAVE BECOME ILL OR THE PURCHASER HAS PASSED AWAY,ETC.ITS UNBELIEVABLE HOW MANY OF THESE CALLERS ARE MAD AS THIS(THESE) PEOPLE DIDNOT PURCHASE ANY INSURANCE AND NOW HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO COME UP WITH THE PAYMENTS OR PAY OUT IN FULL.AT OUR DEALERSHIP ALL CUSTOMERS HAVE TO SIGN A WAIVER THAT IS KEPT IN THE FILE IF THEY CHOOSE NOT TO PURCHASE THE INSURANCE.AS FOR IAP ,I DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS A BETTER COMPANY TO DEAL WITH.THESE GUYS GO ABOVE AND BEYOND TO TRAIN US ON SELLING THERE PRODUCTS WITH SEMINARS,REGULAR VISITS,ETC.I LOOK VERY FORWARD TO IAP 'S RESPONSE TO THIS PROGRAM,AS I'M SURE AS DO MANY OTHERS.P.S WHY NOT CHECK INTO THE INSURANCE COVERAGES OUR BANKS OFFER ON THERE LOANS.AWAITING FOR A FAIR RESPONSE.JOANNE Posted by: JOANNE | Mar 5, 07 06:09 PM

Why would this program blame car dealerships or the Insurance companies they reprsent? The same rules apply to personal life or disability insurance as it does to creditor insurance. Is it not also true that if insurance is not offered at the time of the loan, the dealer (or Bank) could be held responsible to pay in the event of death or disability. I am a finace manager at a dealership and I offer these products. I let my customer decide if they want it. If they don't I have them sign a waiver. That way they had a choice and the dealer is protected against any liability. Posted by: Shauna Adams | Mar 5, 07 07:54 PM

After viewing your program on life insurance on car purchases i felt violated and sick. I happen to fall into the same catagory of this useless policy. I called the insurance company and expressed my outrage and disgust with there deceptive methods.How can they feel proud in recruiting car dealership to sell this worthless product.Shame on the dealerships for allowing there salespersons to sell it, do you need more profits at the expense of others?The part thats so deceptive is no questions were asked us,nor were we made aware of any "COOLING OFF PERIOD".We are the Baby Boomer Generation who among us doesn't have some form of medical problem? It comes to this....WHO CAN YOU TRUST ANYMORE? Posted by: Upset in Nfld | Mar 5, 07 11:15 PM

Note to Charlie: I work at a reputable dealer and the information given to you by the dealer is not correct. The refund for your insurance premium is to be applied directly to your lease. The dealer has NO RIGHT to make you wait until the end of your lease. If they refuse to IMMEDIATELY refund the premium, contact the insuraqnce company directly, or the financing source directly....FORD CREDIT, GMAC or who ever the end lessor the dealer assigned the lease to. AS IT STANDS You have paid the premium AND are receiving no benefit. This dealer is obviuusly trying to pull one over on you, or the dealer employee is. Good Luck. Posted by: Frank | Mar 6, 07 11:08 AM

My Dad passed away about 3 years ago & his ins. never paid out either. He was on Oxygen at the time of purchasing. One of my brothers was with him when he signed the papers & was offered this ins. - he specifically asked (twice) that if he died tomorrow would this ins. cover him & he was told yes. He passed away approx. 6 months later & neither this veh. of the van he & my mom had purchased earlier were paid off. Very disappointing & upsetting. When I loved one passes away there are enough hardships without having one sprung on you that you thought was taken care of. I myself sell Life ins. & I make a point of telling all my clients this story. They are all quite shocked. Posted by: Lorri McLeod | Mar 6, 07 02:32 PM

Don't just look at the car dealerships, look at all life/disability insurance sold with another product. My brother died of cancer last year and was diagnosed 2 years prior to signing up for a credit card. Not only was his claim denied due to preexisting conditions, they also stated that it was illegal to sign up for life insurance if you had a preexisting condition. They refunded the last months premium on his credit card the month he died but not one cent more. Save your money and go to a reputable insurance company for life insurance, the ones that will deny you up front. Posted by: Mary Lou | Mar 6, 07 03:06 PM

Just like to know if is the same for your house? Posted by: Calvin | Mar 6, 07 04:40 PM

I believe that it should be the credit card company that is forced to notify the person affected by the unlawful possesion of credit card numbers. After all it is not the company that is at fault for being hacked into. I could understand how damaging it would be for a major coporation to announce their security has been compromised. Why should it be their obligation to notify the public? That should be between the coporations and the credit card companies. Is that not what we pay them for? I disagree with making it manditory for companies to notify the public when they have been unlawfully broken into. Posted by: art goresky | Mar 7, 07 02:32 AM

Your show struck a chord with me because a few years ago when we bought our car, with out even asking us they signed us on for life insurance. I was furious when I got home and went over the paper work and went back immediatley to the dealership and made them take it off. I have no plans on returninng to that dealership again. Posted by: Amy | Mar 7, 07 08:53 PM

People talk about the need for a regulating body for the car and insurance industries. MARKETPLACE just proved to me and millions of others that there should be a regulating body for the media. This story was so one sided that I dont know if it can even be classified as journalism! You have scared people into not buying or perhaps even cancelling their insurance. MY QUESTION TO MARKETPLACE IS..........WILL YOU COVER THE LIABILITY IF AND WHEN PEOPLE DIE WITHOUT COVERAGE? not once did you mention the good deeds these companies have done, like paying billions in claims on an annual basis, community involvement, corporate donations. I dont know of any insurance company that will cover pre-existing conditions unless it lists it as an exclusion in the event of death. Posted by: Mark N | Mar 7, 07 10:56 PM

While I do not disagree with the issues raised in the report "Left A Loan", I am dissappointed that the impression left with the public is that "The Car Dealer" is the lone "bad guy" in this insurance game. All Canadian Banks sell Credit Life and disability insurances to cover Mortgages, vehicle and personal loans as well. Their "loans officers" are no more trained in these insurances than are the average Dealership employee, nor do they have health questionaires filled out at the time of purchase... not to mention that they too are paid a commission for these insurance sales. Where is the expose on the Banks? That said do I believe that a simple yes / no health questionarie could easily solve the problem at the Dealer level. Posted by: Nick Sebastian | Mar 8, 07 07:12 PM

I have also heard stories - right from the person selling the insurance at the dealership - of insurances being included in a loan as the Finance Company "requires" it, which has never been a condition of an approval. I agree with many, it is only the few that ruin it for the entire industry. As for reading the fine print, yes, consumers responsibility, sometimes one needs a lawyer to read it over. At the same time, Dealerhip personnel are under pressure to sell these products to meet their targets, so they do what they have to do to keep their job. Bigger picture, Dealership owners are under pressure by the manufacturer and its finance company to make profit. It doesn't end ! Sad, think about the chain of profits made from one policy, to the underwriter to the finance company collecting the interest, to the reps that are out their selling it to the dealerships. Who is paying all those profits, the customer, which seems to lose in the end at some policies are denied. What a mess, just to make a few extra bucks, sad sad sad what we do to each other in society for $$$ Posted by: Pete | Mar 9, 07 08:10 AM

I read with amusement that licensed insurance brokers are advising consumers not to purchase credit insurance from 'uneducated business managers' in car dealerships. I am a Business Manager who was previously a financial adviser. I have years of education under my belt including the Canadian Institute of Finacial Planners licensing (although I have allowed that to expire.) While in college during a Risk Management course (all about insurance) the teacher informed us that the real profit lay in selling life insurance as a LICENSED insurance broker. Consumers, do not assume that just because somebody in any given industry is licensed, they are any smarter or ethical when promoting themselves or a product. Life insurance salespeople make A LOT of money from the sale of policies to you. There are policies that are not paid out that were purchased in a licensed insurance brokers' office, after doing a health questionaire. Posted by: ANONYMOUS | Mar 10, 07 01:53 PM

It is too bad this continues to occur. If the sales people know about the possible conditions that are listed in the policy, any GOOD businessperson should provide all the information or recommend it be reviewed. As a claims adjuster with a previous employer, I had to explain why certain hazards were not covered. I, on occasion, had agents call me to ask why I had denied coverage. In many cases, they just wanted to sell the policy. However, we have heard it time and again, BUYER BEWARE!! Every show I have seen on this type of issue said "Read everything. Know what you are buying." If the insurance company was really concerned about customers, they should have picked up on all these policies being sold without having to pay out. But, from the small print you reviewed, as long as it was from natural causes, they never had to pay out anyway. It's no wonder they do not want to speak to you. How do they legitimately answer a question like that? Thank you and my condolences to the families featured in your program. Posted by: Sean Hiscock | Mar 10, 07 03:57 PM

In 1996, we purchased a vehicle from a dealership in BC and was advised by the business manager to take the life and disability coverage because my husband works in construction and injuries can be devastating. So we did and we were glad as a few months later, he had taken a nasty fall resulting in a broken hip. Being off work for several months and having all the required medical reports the insurance company did make the payments on his behalf without a problem. So naturally, when we purchased a new vehicle in 2002, we got the coverage again. In 2004, my husband suffered an injury at work and once again had all the required medical reports and filed his claim. After not hearing anything for a couple of months, he called the insurance company and was informed that his coverage had been cancelled. When he demanded to know who cancelled it, because he surely didn't, the person he spoke to changed the story and said it wasn't cancelled, it had expired!! What a load of crap. If it was expired then how come our doctor had been paid for his reports?? Needless to say, he was furious. We immediately cancelled the coverage on a second vehicle that we had purchased. So now we immediately refuse any coverage and have instructed our family to decline any "insurance" coverage when making a vehicle purchase. It costs way more than it's worth. What a scam!!! Posted by: C. Denton | Mar 12, 07 10:26 AM

I found a lack of balance in the story - there must be many families who have received loan payouts upon death. If there is a written contract, and a reasonable refund timeline to "return" the product, it would seem the client is free to take the contract home and to read with no pressure or to review with someone else...a lawyer, a family insurance agent, etc. I found it odd that in the final story the son shared the comments that they were told they had to have the insurance to get 0 % finance program. Why if the father was "fuming" did they not walk out of the dealership? It is a very competative industry. I would also wonder why they would not have called the loan company (GMAC, FORD CREDIT, ETC) to clarify such a claim, if in fact it was made. Consumers need to take some responsibilty for what they purchase, and legal contracts they sign. I can appreciate the emotional stress that the widows and families faced in these cases, but with legal contracts it would seem that the documents were not read by the consumers. Posted by: DOUG | Mar 12, 07 01:02 PM

Insurance companies should stop selling this product via banks and other oraganisations which uses unqualified people who only wants to sell their own product and make a few more bucks.Let the consumer buy the insurance they need from qualified agents if they wish to protect themselve. Imagine a buck for creditor insurance a buck for credit card protect and so on and on.They all add up. Once you add it up you will find it is buy one policy. Posted by: Nihal Fernando | Mar 12, 07 02:15 PM

I watched your program on Marketplace about the Credit Insurance sold by the Auto Dealers. I thought you might be interested to know that the same product is sold by the Alberta Treasury Branch for customers using certain business credit cards. They do say it is optional although a lot of pressure is put on to purchase the product at the time you apply for the BusinessCard. I did a little research and found out the the policy is post-claim underwritten at the time of claim -just as the Auto policy. The Bank actually denied that was the case but with a little more pressure, they said they would refund the premiums if the claim was denied. For all those people out there who think they are insured because the bank (Auto dealer) takes your money, think again. Turns out that SunLife is now uncomfortable with the product and is offering another policy to the ATB. I wonder if all the premiums taken under false pretenses will be returned? Thanks for all your information on the topic. I was trying to get the ATB bank to send me a copy of the policy but no one was able to obtain one (because there isn't one). Betty Seidel Posted by: Betty Seidel | Mar 12, 07 06:03 PM

After reading through many of these posts, I find it amazing how many insurance agents comment negatively on buying credit life insurance at the dealerships. You should go to them to make an informed decision!! OF COURSE THEY DO!! They want your business with them not the competition! duh! Posted by: John | Mar 14, 07 11:24 AM

I think that people who do not read what they sign are the ones at fault. It is your responsiblity to read before you sign. Even f you sign most policyies have a 30 day time period in which to cancel the policy, so if you go home and read what you were "pressured" to sign, you can still cancel. I believe that this was a very one sided story as there were only claims that were denied on this show what about the claims that are paid out every day??? Posted by: JEN | Mar 14, 07 04:54 PM

Don't think that this only applies to car loans. Credit life insurance is sold by banks, credit card companies, and any other place where you have a "creditor" involved. You wouldn't go to a mechanic for medical advice or a bartender for legal advice so why would you trust your insurance needs to a car dealership or a bank which is prohibited from selling "life insurance". Think about it. Posted by: Cory | Mar 14, 07 09:41 PM

I am a business manager at a small car dealership and we do offer credit life insurance. I have always been up front with my customers and disclosed the pre-existing clause. Because of your show one of our long time customers declined life insurance for the first time. He is the Fire Chief in a town near by. Thank you for helping him make the decision to not protect his wife and children every time he goes into a burning building. Posted by: Dee | Mar 15, 07 01:40 PM

Where are the stories of the people who were extremely relieved and happy when one of these companies pays out the loan or honours a disability claim. Keep in mind, there are truly professional business managers at car dealerships and I am happy to be one of them that explains the policies in full. I have been in the car business for some time and I know that I have several customers that have had their payments protected due to injury or illness. Where are there stories? Although the incidents in the show are unfortunate and sad, there are professionals out there who WILL treat people with respect and explain what it is they are buying. If they do not, onus SHOULD be placed on both the dealership AND the insurance company. I am sorry to hear about the losses and the debt incurred after a policy has been rejected, but there are also alot that are paid. Jeremy Posted by: Jeremy | Mar 21, 07 12:16 PM

Not only is credit life insurance underwritten at the time of death but so are the life insurance policies that banks' offer on their mortgages. Pre-existing condition is also an exclusion to pay out at the time of death for this type of policy and is sold by an unlicensed person. As a licenced insurance agent in Ontario my banker automatically knows that I do not want this coverage and checks off "no" for me. Mortgage life insurance monthly charged is based on the original amount loaned and when the amount of loan drops the monthly amount charged to you for the life insurance does not. Posted by: Karen Jackson | Mar 23, 07 02:03 PM

Finance managers are the ones trained on these products, not the car sales people. Would you walk into your bank and put them on the spot with regards to the vehicle you plan on financing?? Posted by: Marco | Mar 27, 07 09:14 AM

Just (5/26/07) watched(re-run?) of Wesley's investigation on Auto dealers selling "Post-Claim-Underwriting" policies to buyers with health/pre-existing conditions/etc. Why do you expect Canadian Auto dealers to change there ways when our National Banks do the same thing. A bank sold my wife a policy on her LOC account when she had declared(verbally) that she had a heart transplant seven years before, was diabetic and on on-going meds(immun-suppress). When we found out she would never collect they said sorry and DID NOT even give her the premiums back. No wonder banks are making multi billions in profits-Change to a Credit Union ASAP! Posted by: Artepru | May 26, 07 07:11 PM

my husband died 10 years ago .when he died the insursance company refused to pay .because he had a heart condition.when he applied for the financeing he was getting a disability pension ,how i found out was when the repo man showed up at my door i had to borrow the back payment and then continued to pay for it myself.i had 3 children at home.my husband was in his late 50s when he bought the vehicle.he died a year later.we deal with the pain of loseing him than have to deal with the feeling of the greed of insurance companies. denied for ongoing heart condition.well anybody getting a disability pension has something wrong. it cost me twenty five thousands dollars,at least the dealer enjoyed there profit.thank you.for your show.suzzanne wells peterborough ontario Posted by: suzzanne wells | May 26, 07 07:15 PM

I just watched the re-aired story "Left A Loan" about car dealerships pushing life insurance. Just a caution to consumers...banks do the same thing! A similar situation happened to my Mother when my Father passed away. He had life insurance on a line of credit loan (for a vehicle). I was shocked when I learned he had this insurance as he was in very poor health when he obtained it. When we sent in the claim for the insurance, it was denied, citing "pre-existing condition" clause. When I requestd the application form to determine if Dad had incorrectly answered the medical questions, there was no application...just a yes or no checked off on the line of credit application. The bank said he was given a policy booklet, when he obtained the insurance. We found the booklet and sure enough, had he read it, he ought to have known he would not be eligble for a claim. Our issue was that he had the insurance prior to the booklet being provided! Why would he read the booklet after being told he had the coverage. I believe he purchased the insurance in good faith believing the loan would be paid if he died. Why would anyone buy insurance if they truly understood it was of no value upon their death. Is it a coincidence that those folks dubbed by this "scam" are seniors? Not likely. Posted by: karen | May 26, 07 07:19 PM

I was told I had to buy a $1200 life insurance policy for a lease with a balance of $9000 after a down payment of $15,000. The leased car was ordered from the factory and when it arrived I was sent to the business manager where I was lied to about the unnecessary insurance policy. You should do a show about fraudulent auto dealer business managers! These business managers aren’t trained in business, just bullying the consumer into buying unnecessary policies. Posted by: David Adam | May 28, 07 09:29 AM

My husband and I were at our bank on June 6,th to sign papers for a car loan. I noticed there was an extra $6,000.00 attached to our loan and I questioned it. The loan officer sais that we needed this in case anything happened to either of, the loan would be secured. I asked if this was Mandatory and he said no but we really should have it. I was a little puzzled by this because now this was an extra $6,000.00 on our loan which put our pay back to the bank in double numbers. The loan officer was not happy when I told him that I don't think we need this and went on to say that if they didn't give us the loan, we would be paying a higher interest rate. We were pre-approved a month ago so I don't know why he would of said that. My thinking it was a scare tatic for us to buy the insurance. We did sign the papers and them came home and went online to find the articile on Marketplace. We plan on cancelling right away. The thing that bothers me the most is he put the amount in there without asking us if we wanted it. Don't be fooled Posted by: B. Nemetchek | Jun 7, 07 10:40 AM

I would like more info about this insurance - I just purchased a truck last month and I just seen this program and didn't look at the papers until after I signed it. This there any way that I can get out of this? Posted by: Teena Lafferty | Jun 27, 07 12:00 AM

I watched your show on credit loan insurance with great interest. As a licensed life insurance broker in BC, I am constantly informing my clients against relying on these types of creditor insurance "post-claim underwritten" contracts which are sold by un-licenced, un-trained and un-regulated sales people in car dealerships, loan offices and banks. I agree with many of the people who have commented on your story that these types of insurance contracts and the manner in which they are sold should be illegal. In fact selling these products as a condition of getting a loan is illegal, as a form of "tied-selling", however it happens every day in dealerships and banks across this country. The problem is that the actual life insurance industry is licensed and regulated by provincial insurance councils, but the banks get around this because they are under federal legislation and not bound by the provicial insurance legislation. This is just one more reason why deregulating the banking industry in Canada to allow banks into the insurance business is bad for consumers. The bigger problem here, which is worth noting and maybe further investigation by your program, is not car dealers, but bank credit mortgage insurance which uses the same post-claim underwriting and is sold as an afterthought to everyone signing a mortgage(usually with no more salesmanship or disclosure than a "just sign here for your mortgage insurance please"). While a car loan may be for $10-$30,000, most mortgages are for hundreds of thousands of dollars, where consumers are at the same risk of having no coverage, yet paying hundreds of dollars each year for what they think is financial security. These products are easy to get, but are very expensive and do not serve the consumers best interest, only the people who sell them. I thank your show for bringing this to public attention. Posted by: Greg Eaton | Jul 21, 07 11:38 PM

There is no sense in me reciting my seven year "war" with a direct insurance company. By passing me through their complaint system, and a supposed ombudsman, with NEVER directly addressing the issue, I decided to take the hit of a few thousand dollars. My situation was not a health issue, it was an outright lie. I AT FIRST CALLED IT A MISTAKE ON THEIR PART. But... It took me a while to get all supporting documents together, and they still ignored me. I guess I was part of their policy that states "ignore claimants for a year and 90% of them will go away. Then ignore the rest"... The lawyer fees and the threats of how they don't care how much it costs them legally wore me out. This doesn't address the excellent work done in this video, but it is a real-world recollection of the "do-anything-for-a-dollar" insurers that are out there. And to the bozos that ask why Marketplace doesn't talk about all the "paid claims"; How, pray tell, is a company doing what they are legally required to do, as it IS THEIR REASON FOR BEING ALLOWED TO SELL A PRODUCT, a story worthy of being covered. The only STORY is when a company accepts money for a product with no intention of actually delivering that product. Posted by: SCOOTER MCGAVIN | Jul 22, 07 01:13 PM

I just saw your program on insurance. Well I was left to pay off $189,000 for a motor home we purchased. We bought the motor home in June 2005 by May 2006 my husband had died of a massive heartattack. He was never diagnosed with heart disease or was he being treated for it, but did have highblood pressure and was being treated. We bought the insurance and we thought we where covered. It did say pre existing! Since he was not being treated for heart disease I thought I would get the loan paid out. WRONG, this insurance is a scam and I wish government or a law firm would step in and help to repay what they have stolen from innocent people. They told me I would not receive pay out of the loan and did offer me half of the premium we paid. So I did get legal advice and the lawyer sent a few letter and the insurance company did offer to pay half of the loan . I did accept this offer because the legal fees and the years spent on court seem fruitless. I was very angry that this happened to us. I was left with a large sum to pat out $80,000. Is there any way we can get help. In response to the car dealer in Ont. You have no idea what you are talking about., The language of your insurance you pawn off on people, Says PRE EXSISTING well the insurance covers there rear end by saying pre existing covering every possible illness and even if you go to a doctor with ANY THING they will say it was PRE EXISTING. I would like to know if this happened to YOU how you would feel. Sales people like you make it bad for the rest. You say they go far beyond to train! They can because the have stolen from millions of people so they can train you to sell and brain wash you. They have the funds to do so. They probably pay for your meals,drinks and rooms etc. Posted by: S.S. | Jul 22, 07 07:00 PM

I found the show interesting in the fact that it showed IAP in its true colors. They are are a company who are out to profit on the backs of everyone and anyone with no sympathy whatsoever. My story is a little different - in my case in 2001 I had purchased a vehicle through financing and about a year after became ill. After calling the dealership to see about my payment options I was informed that while I was ill I had to make the first payment and after that everything would be covered under insurance but IAP refused to pay claiming that I was only working part time when I bought the vehicle therefore the insurance policy didn't apply to me and I had to continue making the payments myself. The salesman did not explain any of this to me at the point of purchase and at the time I wasn't even aware that I had such insurance until I called. As one person said in the show it was a matter of papers coming at you for signatures and assurances that this was the normal procedure and you had nothing to worry about. Buyer beware I guess - a lesson learned a little too late. Posted by: Bonnie Stead | Jul 23, 07 06:25 PM

The banks, car dealers, and credit insurers that participate in these scams, should be charged with racketeering. Since the government is covering its eyes, what we need, is someone who can put together a class-action suit against the participants. Include the collection agencies too. Posted by: Mike Corbeil | Jul 24, 07 01:40 PM

Working as a professional licensed insurance agent, I am appalled that this is able to happen. In my profession (home & auto insurance) we are heavily regulated to death....and life insurance companies are allowed to operate like this?? I can just imagine me collecting money for a car insurance policy and waiting until the client has an accident before telling them they did not qualify?! That's absurd. You should also look in to the life/disability insurance the banks sell with their mortgages - they operate in the same manner as you reported. Again, no one selling you a mortgage knows anything about the insurance product & people purchase it everyday and MANY claims are denied because these policies are underwritten after there has been a claim. It's truly disgusting. Posted by: Urusula | Jul 27, 07 05:50 AM

Don't forget that all of these problems are not limited to car dealers. The biggest offenders are the banks. I personally spoke with the Royal Bank and an employee had no idea of whether or not the Bank was asking any of the health questions. Note that this is a HUGE moneymaker for both the Banks (and other creditors) and the insurance industry. Posted by: Tim Landry | Aug 21, 07 12:01 PM

In response to S.S: Since working for a company like the ones shown on this program, i can assure you that there are plenty of satisfied customers out there that are very happy with these types of insurance. What this program doesn't tell/show you are the millions of people that are truly thankful this insurance is around. This program doesn't show you the millions of customers that had their claims paid. Before you point the blame on someone, maybe you should have read the fine print and asked more questions before you signed the dotted line. Posted by: c.c | Aug 22, 07 03:09 PM