Your View - British Columbia

Wow Ann from BC...basically all people in prison deserve 24 hour a day torture if it were up to you? Nice to see we have such level headed people free on the streets.

Posted December 17, 2007 10:44 AM

I agree with Carl... capital punishment is not the answer. But, Pickton did get a life sentence and it's likely he will not get out on parole- so he's in jail for good. It’s funny how much the family cares about the women after their gone. Why were they on the street in the first place? If they were really cared about, they would not have to live on the streets.

Posted December 17, 2007 06:27 AM

To all those carping about how Pickton should have been convicted of first-degree murder, shut up and leave the jury in peace! I believe six murder convictions were justified, but there were a lot of ambiguities and grey areas which made this case extremely difficult. You did not see the evidence and do not know so stop going on about how you have been "let down." The relatives of the victims seem to be okay with the convictions.
And as for you using the bodies of these women as a platform to demand the return of capital punishment, you know damn well innocent people get the death penalty, that only poor people and minorities get it. It says something that you don't demand the death penalty for George Bush and Pickton is nothing compared to him! Where was your "concern" for these women when they were alive? Of course, they were "just" prostitutes and drug addicts so it's only now when the families have won a victory that you spout off.
You pro-death penalty "law-and-order" types are really no different than Pickton; you think those on the bottom of society are expendable. You are contemptible racists and cowards!

Posted December 15, 2007 09:05 PM

There is no Justice in BC. While it is true the system has taken Willie Pickton out of society for 25 years at the least; I think the system has failed to find the others who so obviously were involved in this heinous series of crimes. It appears that our courts were more concerned with hanging this fellow alone than truly finding out what really happened. On the other hand, at least the judge in this case did not simply sentence Mr. Pickton to 20 months house arrest.

Posted December 15, 2007 07:04 AM

At least Pickton didn't laugh at his sentence like those axe attack kids.

Posted December 14, 2007 04:11 PM

Shame on all of you who seek capital punishment in this case, or in any other. Sanctioning murder is wrong, period. No matter the crime. I am proud to live in a country in which our government does not conduct such terrible atrocities. Pickton's crimes were brutal, there is no question. But we are NOT him nor should we devalue life as he does!!!

Justice was done. 1st degree or second degree is irrelevant - the bottom line is that he will not see the light of day again.

Posted December 14, 2007 03:14 PM

This is too all those who think too much money was spent for such an obvious case. That the Canadian justice system is backwards because so much effort was required for such a case. That he was made out to be important.

It was not Pickton's importance that should be measured by the money and investigative efforts put into this case, but rather the importance of everyone in the past and in the future who has been justly aquitted for a crime they did not commit.

There is one set of rules that applies to everyone. The lives those wrongly accused are infinitely more important than details such as whether Pickton got 1st or 2nd degree murder. He got the maximum sentence...what else do you want?

Regarding the Death Penalty. It is nothing more than a revenge killing. A revenge killing outside the law is still tried as a murder case even if the victim has killed your whole family, why is the death penalty somehow an exception?

Posted December 14, 2007 11:58 AM

Rick from Van with the suggestion that the parents of the murdered women should shoulder some blame- Not enough time to comment on your comment other than Wow, you are carrying some stuff around.

Personally, I have no problem with the death penalty in a case like this. It's not the eye for an eye thing. It is more the fact that a society has the right to rid itself of those who commit such base crimes. We do not owe Robert Picton the right to live. He relinquished that right when he murdered and butchered his second victom. I really believe that I will live to see victim initiated vigilantiism unless our legal system becomes a justice system.

Posted December 14, 2007 07:44 AM

We must remember that the jury in Picton were reasonable honest everyday people trying to give their best for a task for which they were chosen but did not volunteer.

So I give them more respect than others might want to in their tough decision to find for second degree. I believe this decision arose not from uncertainty nor indecision but from a rational constructive process over those 8 days in their room. Something was bothering this jury. It might have been a technical legal point that concerned them, correctly or incorrectly. (Anyone who followed the Picton trial closely would have seen the rigor with which each point would be argued.)

I think they may have been cautious and concerned about making a correct decision in the various verdicts available to them in this murder indictment, which the Judge laid before them in his address. They wanted their verdict to stand and, if they could help it, not be overturned.

While we all understand the stong emotional reaction of many members of the public against the unexpected verdict, I regard the outcome as a positive sign of our justice system working effectively, in the face of many suggestions that it is not.

Posted December 13, 2007 11:35 PM

OK so Picton is guilty and going away for life. But what about the other 84 missing women. What are Police doing to find them? Will they just be forgotten now; as the list contiues to grow. SHAME SHAME SHAME soone else is getting away with them, possibly accomplices of "Willy". Or Inpendants,lone wolf's. Has justice served obviously NOT. Get Police and Crown back on the case don't let it fade away.

Posted December 13, 2007 07:48 PM

Rick, those comments were completely uncalled for and without any care or consideration for the families involved. Where do you get off judging people without knowing all the facts? I am the mother of teenage girls - and every day as I love them and struggle with their resentment of me and their Dad because we have rules and boundaries, I pray for their safety. I know when I see pictures of these young women who are now forever gone that, there but for the grace of God go I or go my children. Yes, we as parents have a responsibility to provide safe, loving and supportive homes for our children - and most of us try really hard to do that. But, we as a community also have a responsibility to each other and to support families in crisis and victims of domestic violence and child abuse. My girls are precious to me, and I give them a good home and I teach them right from wrong, but that does not stop them from doing stupid things at times, putting themselves at risk or wanting to constantly push the envelope. Are you going to blame me if my kids end up dead or worse? I don't know the situations for each of these families - but I am willing to bet that of course they are feeling guilty - guilty because they probably think they should have done more, but that is not for you or anyone else to judge. Bottom line, this was an evil and despicable act by a depraved and disgusting murderer and blaming the parents who are already suffering horribly is about as low down and dirty as you can get.

Posted December 13, 2007 07:20 PM

The death penalty? How about the fact that killing is morally wrong. I find it astonishing that any right minded human being would think it's okay to kill another human being - to sanction a government to kill another human being. Is that the lesson we want to teach our children? If someone does something really bad, we should murder him. I'm astonished! Pickton will spend the rest of his natural life in jail. That is a fair punishment for his crimes.

Posted December 13, 2007 03:24 PM

While I think there is never any real justice for the kind of crimes that Mr. Picton was found guilty of, our so called justice system really doesn't meet out the punishment that is deserved. There should be no three meals a day, jumping to the head of the medical line, showers, nice warm roof over their head, etc. Canada should bring back the death penalty and enforce it. If not the death penalty, give them real life sentences, where life is life, not with an option for parole in 10-25 years. The no human contact idea is a good one too. They are put in a plexiglas cage, lights on 24/7, meals are delivered once a day, the only visitor they may have is a priest or the religious leader of their choice, and that is only once a year, guards are not allowed to speak to them, and when they don't move one day, the sentence is done. Put those facilities underground, and you might start to think there is some kind of justice. The kind of people that commit these kinds of crimes are not deserving of any understanding or caring from us or the courts. Really make the punishment fit the crime, and you might have a justice system. Until we can get past the people that figure hardened criminals and serial killers can be "rehabilitated" we are not going to have justice.

Posted December 13, 2007 03:22 PM

Justice? Our country does better than most.
The jury of his peers did an amazing job and he was sentenced as harshly as possible in Canada. I cannot imagine that he will not be named a dangerous offender. But will our best hope of justice there for the next, and the next...until?
A word of caution to Canadians pushing for more punitive sentencing in Canada. Love your country and our systems of rights and privileges. As we speak, Canada is losing its uniqueness in so many hidden ways, in this government's rush to harmonize with the United States. The drive to harsher sentences already begun is but one change imposed on Canada, and it did NOT result of any public consensus. If you think we still have a democracy, think again. We are in the process of losing Canada. IF you think the public deserves a say no matter what your view in this or any other important policy issue, SPEAK OUT for a public process NOW. Ask any major political party spokesperson if they stand for Canada, or some new union which is being created behind closed doors. They will not answer you. Who is in charge here?

What is the cost of our (everyone's) rights and freedoms and JUSTICE in this country? Effort, I hope. Research. Awareness. Fearlessness. If we are complacent do we deserve justice?

BTW, I am tired of hearing the cost of the trial given the other grossly irresponsible ways this government spends our money. What do 6 murder trials and the ground work done of 20 others cost, not to mention taking this monster off the streets and preventing even more murders? What are the potential costs to citizens of not completing the job?

Posted December 13, 2007 12:25 PM

Rick from Vancouver. I couldn't agree with you more. Good on you for saying, and saying it well, what many of us have been thinking.

Posted December 13, 2007 09:37 AM

DW- Edmonton- You cannot serve a life sentence and be a dangerous offender, the DO status REPLACES the life sentence. It is very rare that a DO application is made in a first degree or second degree murder case because they are already serving a life sentence. DO's have more opportunities to be released than lifers and if you assume they will "never" get out...just wait and see.

Posted December 13, 2007 05:44 AM

Eva, as for Mr. Latimer, I'm not saying it was right, but HE decided it was just to kill his daughter, and as a loving parent who cared for his daughter to the best of anyone's ability for her entire life, he was in a better position than anyone else to make that decision. Additionally, the judge and jury also sympathized for him when they granted him a 1 year sentence. Unfortunately they were tied by the letter of the law and their wish for leniency was buried when his sentence was overturned then upheld for the full sentence. As for the law being unjust, if Latimer wanted out at any cost he could have applied for prerogative of mercy long ago, but that would mean expressing he did something wrong.

As for Pickton, he also decided his killings were just, but obviously no rational juror would side with that so he somehow gets the same sentence as Latimer, though since it is multiple murders I don't think he can apply for parole until 25 years.

If this isn't twisted enough, we now must rely on the National Parole Board and hope they make the right decision when Pickton applies for early parole. It is clear he should never be released the NPB has shown us they are capable of making decisions that baffle us.

Posted December 12, 2007 07:09 PM

Lon, from Saskatoon, I brought up Latimer because in the beginning posts I saw that posters were refering to his cast by way of contrast to Picktons case....of course this thread is about the pickton case...it's also about murder...i still say, who decides when someone's pain is worthy of murder ("compassionate" homicide)?
Latimer's act of murder was premeditated and planned...should have been first degree ALSO. If he believes law on books is unjust, why not proud to go to jail for breaking it?

Posted December 12, 2007 03:25 PM

I have one question to ask.....why were these families' children on the streets in first place? The families shamelessly blame everyone else on earth for the deaths of their children when they should be blaming themselves for the abuse and neglect that these young women suffered at the hands of these families, which put them on the street in the first place. Shame on every member of these families for not providing the structure, support, love and affection that children need to grow into caring and emotionally strong and stable people. Instead their children ended up on crack/cocaine/heroine and selling their bodies on the street. To the families of these victims, I have one thing to say to you. When all of you sit there and bathe in all the media attention you are receiving and cry your tears for the cameras supposedly for your sadness and anger at Pickton for killing your children, the world knows your tears are really of regret and guilt for yourselves for sending your children to the killer in the first place. You are just as guilty, if not more, as Pickton for killing your children. The shame that you have brought to yourselves and your families is your life sentence. Shame on you.

Posted December 12, 2007 02:08 PM

Lindsay from Ontario, maybe you should get YOUR facts straight. You may recall the trial of Paul Bernardo. Although he was found guilty of two counts of first degree murder, and sentenced to life in prison with no parole for 25 years, he was also deemed to be a "dangerous offender" two months after being sentenced. He will likely never be released.

Posted December 12, 2007 01:24 PM

I would like to correct the statement made about the lenght of the sentence. If the sentences ran consecutively then it would be 6x25=150. But the sentences in Canada run concurent so in this case the sentence is 6x25=25. and that would make Pickton in his 80's I believe, before he can apply for parole. Not that he will ever get it.

Posted December 12, 2007 01:05 PM

Justice has been served as far as our legal system is concerned and can go with a 2nd degree murder charge. Since I do not believe that Pickton acted alone in these murders, I hope that the other parties are brought to justice if and when there is a second trial. It pleases me to know that it is likely that Pickton will spend the rest of his life in prison.

Posted December 12, 2007 10:51 AM

If there ever was an argument for the elimination of concurrent sentancing here it is folks. Picton is convicted of 6 seperate killings but will serve his punishment all in one fell swoop. If we had consecutive sentancing and the judge applied the minimum standard for 2nd degree murder; Picton would be eligible for parole in 60 years (10 years for each count), not 25 as it currently stands.

Posted December 12, 2007 10:01 AM

I am amazed that people would trust our justice system with the death penalty. Have Canadian judges suddenly gotten interested in justice instead of worshipping the law?

After the littany of mistakes made by the Canadian legal system over the last 40 years that we are paying for time after time for millions of dollars for gross mistakes in our legal system I am shocked people would allow a Canadian judge to walk a dog let alone decide life or death of a human being.

I would like to see at least a couple of hundred years of good behavior, intelligent decisions, an interest in the truth, and an appreciation of justice from the Canadian legal system before I would let these clowns we call judges have the right and power to decide life and death for anything more substantial than a gold fish.

Posted December 12, 2007 10:00 AM

I think the ramifications of the verdict have been poorly understood. The jury was not necessarily implying the murders were unplanned or unpremeditated: they were saying it had not been proven that Mr. Pickton was guilty of planning or premeditating them, though he was guilty of involvement in their commission. In combination with the question they asked the judge during deliberations, it is pretty clear they had reasonable doubt that Mr. Pickton acted alone, or was even the prime instigator. Which means the crown signally failed in prosecuting the case, that other guilty parties could well still be out there, and there are grounds for the defence to appeal. I think it's also quite possible that, had the judge not altered his directions in midstream, the jury would have been forced to acquit Mr. Pickton.

Posted December 12, 2007 08:57 AM

To Ree in Minn: the sentences are to be served concurrently. That means 25 x 6 = 150. Not much chance of a parole hearing on this planet.

Posted December 12, 2007 07:58 AM

How does one reasonably accept that providing all Pickton's basic human rights to food, shelter, medical care ad nauseum, will avenge senseless death at the hands of a sociopath?
How is it that these women, many of them aboriginal women, can be avenged by the senseless degradation of alcohol, drugs, prostitution and all that goes with it?
A lot of time was put into firing Pickton. How about some time spent on the healing of the wounded? When will we hear of the energy put into that?

Posted December 12, 2007 07:57 AM

It's refreshing to see the opinions of people like Sharon (Vancouver) and Jonas Fischer (toronto), amongst all these "Guilty Until Proven Innocent" commenters who say things like "Try him on the remaining charges and throw away the key." I really wonder to what degree the public is aware of the evidence against Pickton. Very little of it was reported on in the media. Much of what we know about this evidence is anecdotal or passed on through the media filter. Much of the evidence is eyewitness testimony -- the least reliable and often an unverifiable form of evidence.

The day the mere accusation of a crime is enough to convince the general public that the accused is guilty is the day when public hearings become nothing more than show trials. On that day, very little will stand between our democracy descending into despotism.

Second-degree murder is a reasonable conviction given that the jury must establish that there is a criterion of "beyond reasonable doubt". This is a much higher standard than what is held even in science or civil court (balance of probabilities). It's the sentence, not the conviction, that is meant to be proportional to the gravity of the crime (this is why victim impact statements come AFTER the trial).

Posted December 12, 2007 07:36 AM

Wow Dennis in Kingston. That was quite possibly the most illiterate statement I've ever seen on a CBC web forum. Most impressive. However, I do thank you for making what is perhaps the strongest possible arguement against capital punishment. That those who think they know more than they do should never have the power to take another life.

Pickton was a monster, and deserves what he received: to never again smell the air of freedom. He will never be paroled, and it is the best possible result from a terrible situation.

Posted December 12, 2007 07:22 AM

Please people get your facts straight. Pickton was sentenced yesterday to life with no parole ELIGIBILITY for 25 years. That means he cannot APPLY for parole for 25 years. There is no 2-for-1 credit for pre-trial custody but his sentence is considered to have started when he was arrested. Therefore, 25 years from that time, he is eligible. This is the same as for first degree murder.

A dangerous offender APPLICATION can only be made at the time of sentencing. He would not qualify as he received a life sentence. A DO is serving a life sentence as well, however, parole eligibility is different. They are reviewed after 7 years and every 2 years following. DO status is ONLY for people who would not qualify for a life sentence.

Do some research before you start posting stuff you know nothing about.

Posted December 12, 2007 07:14 AM

Eva, this post is about Pickton's crimes, not Latimer's. But since you bring it up, the reason the comparison has been made to Latimer is because both acts drew 2nd degree murder conviction and are subject to the same minimum sentence.

However in the 14 years since Latimer decided to follow his moral obligation it appears that you have not truly learned anything about his unfortunate position, and that he acted to end Tracy's pain, not his own. If you had, like the majority of us, you would understand that, rightly or wrongly, it was a "compassionate homicide" and indeed not a slaughter as was the victims of Pickton.

After reading through all the comments so far, I now understand why the second degree conviction is more appropriate than first degree. We tend to want to rank things by order of their atrocity, but our justince system doesn't work that way - it also doesn't treat the victims any lesser due to their gender, social class or occupation. And though the NPB can sometimes appear inept, we need not worry about Pickton ever being free to kill again.

Posted December 12, 2007 07:11 AM

No doubt I agree that this fella should serve life! I worry about Canadian Justice when I see that they could not find him Guilty of 1st degree Murder. In fact, Pickton qualifies for the death Penalty which should have been maintained for just such an extreme case... What upsets me in this matter is that we spent so much money on such an obvious case. Over 200,000 exhibits, years to investigate and almost a year for a trail. Ottawa should have stepped in put a common sense spending limit of 5 Million or some intelligent ceiling for one single criminal case. Just another example of how desperately we need a Canadian Common Sense Act to compliment the Charter of Rights and the Canadian Criminal Code.

Posted December 12, 2007 06:24 AM

I think Mr. Picton got what he deserved. He should never get out to harm any other person. He will no doubt end up in hell for eternity. I hope prison is not a picnic for him...

Posted December 12, 2007 05:35 AM

I'm glad Mr. Pickton was given life without parole for 25 years. It is people like this person that make me belieave that the DEATH PENALTY is a good idea....

Posted December 12, 2007 05:06 AM

A lot of words and a lot of money!! Justice could really only be served in this case with capital punishment. No more words, no more money!!

Posted December 12, 2007 03:12 AM

first i want to give condolence's to the victims family's these women were human beings and didn't deserve what happened to them. they battled demons so strong most of you will never understand or experience that type hell and i hope you never do! As for Mr.Pickton first or second degree murder , it's just a number the only thing that counts is this guy will never get out and hurt again isn't that what matters?

Posted December 12, 2007 03:11 AM

Absolutely. First degree murder is a VERY difficult thing to prove. By the coviction he got and the judges sensible sentence justice has been served as much as it can by the legal system. The best justice is to never forget the victims. Pickton will die old lonely and reviled.

Posted December 11, 2007 10:28 PM

Wouldn't the death penalty be appropriate for this monster? I hate to think about the hard earned tax dollars being collected from the victims to pay for the food, shelter, health care for this monster to live one more day in comfort.

Posted December 11, 2007 10:26 PM

The fact that he even has a chance for parole is crazy. He's serving his convictions concurrently which makes no sense. That shouldn't be allowed. These sentences should be back to back such that he won't ever get a chance for parole.

Posted December 11, 2007 10:16 PM

What?? Guilty of SECOND degree murder charges? I am shocked. How is it that a man lures women to his farm and murders them is not charged with cold blooded, premeditated, first degree murder?
The idea that he may live long enough to see the light of day outside of prison is ludicris!!
It is not even a matter of seeing justice done, but a matter of seeing to it that the public is safe from these preditors. When did this stop being important to the justice system? I am appalled.

Posted December 11, 2007 09:49 PM

As a former resident of Vancouver and a survivor of violent sexual assault in that city during the time of these brutal murders I can't help but think about the families of all of the other women who are thought to have been killed by Pickton. I know how important it was for me and my family to see my assailant brought to justice for his crime against myself. Each of the victims of this man's brutality deserve to have their names brought into the court and have him stand resposible for his actions in their deaths. That being said, in all fairness I think a just punishment would include the families being able to face Pickton outside of the courts and decide for themselves what they think is appropriate.

Posted December 11, 2007 09:13 PM

NO JUSTICE is not served properly, because he will sit in jail, eat properly, and get served ON hand and foot... I believe the prisonerS should be growing their own food in a greenhouse, raise some chickens, and EAT the fruits of their labour , instead of tv, computer, education, gyms, and all the other luxuries they have.. what a SYSTEM WE HAVE, IT IS JUST GARBAGE,,,, I VOTE FOR THE DEATH PENALTY.... A LIFE FOR A LIFE BUT IN THIS CASE IT WOULD BE ONE LIFE FOR 20 OR MORE. IN 25 YEARS , WE WILL HAVE MORE PEOPLE IN THE PRISONS THAN CAN BE ACCOMODATED. SO THEREFORE, WE NEED SOME CHANGES MADE. THANK YOU

Posted December 11, 2007 09:09 PM

I think that the decision was quite acceptable. The families of the victims can feel a slight comfort knowing that their Sisters lives would be justified with the decision upon Picton.
However if he will ever find rehabilitation and seek any forms of therapy is an question that can only be found inside the walls of which ever prison he goes to.
My heart goes out to the Victim's families, in hopes they feel a slight bit of peace with the decision.
At the same time this does not resolve the situation of Canada's female street workers, but I hope this addresses the issue that homeless females need some form of aid from the government.

Posted December 11, 2007 09:04 PM

Will everyone PLEASE stop using the word "justice" when discussing the legal system? No legal system has ever provided justice, nor will one ever do so.
That's my linguistic gripe for the day.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:40 PM

Yes, justice was served. They tried him and are sending him to jail. I don't think it matters he has an option of parole in 25 years. He's not going to get out.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:35 PM

Justice has not been completely served - he basically got ONE life sentence with a possible parole at the 25-year mark when he should have gotten 6 consecutive life sentences with the parole date for each being set at 25 years! Yes, I want him to die in jail ... I'm pretty certain that he probably will not survive for 25 years, but even more important is that a precedent be set.
I want our justice system to establish a very logical principle: Each victim of a crime deserves to have his/her offender sentenced for EACH offence, separetly and CONSECUTIVELY.
Do I think it will happen? Well, that would require Government Officials to use LOGIC - and we all know: Government and Logic are mutually EXCLUSIVE to one another!

Posted December 11, 2007 08:31 PM

Justice has been served for Pickton, he will spend the rest of his life behind bars and that is the harshest sentence that can come in Canada. As for the victims, as long as the Downtown Eastside continues to be ignored, there is no justice for them. Turning a blind eye to the blatant social problems is the same symptom of the sick society that did not act when the women went missing.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:30 PM

In my opinion justice has not been served. From what I have read, what has been reported, Pickton found pleasure in killing those women in various ways and slaughtering them like pigs, and is not in the least remorseful. Canada should have the death penalty, and that animal should be one of the recipients.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:26 PM

Unfortunately I think it is better that he was charged with second degree murder rather than the chance that a first degree charge would be overturned on an appeal. At least this way he should be locked up until he draws his last breath. Even though it should not happen, the possiblity that he even qualifies to apply for early parole is sick! I think we need to take a look at the justice system in this country and lobby for change. 2 for 1 time served and concurrent not consecutive sentencing - who are the laws for anyway?? Not the law abiding citizen.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:22 PM

Under the circumstances, this was the best result that could be expected. Let's wait for the inquiry into the police investigation. It is my bet there is a whole new episode waiting to be exposed. Stay tuned.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:15 PM

There may come a day when I am called to sit as a juror. It could be that -- like the citizens who served for us all in this trial -- I would be exposed to brutality, to have images and words and pain seared into my mind. And at the end of it all I must try to ignore raw emotion, to sift testimony for facts, to deliver some form of justice for victims, for the accused, and for the rest of the country. For the rest of my life I would have to live with the knowledge that I did or did not do my best. Thank you, whoever you may be, for your time and for your best. I hope you may ignore the criticism, and find an easy path back to your lives.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:13 PM

Even still after 25 years he is still only 83 years old! He could still have another 7 good years out of prison. Consecutive sentences would be better.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:02 PM

"Beyond reasonable doubt" is a powerful phrase that helps define freedom. The Law is very specific, and the jury has done what they could with what they had. We must take what consolation we can from the fact that Pickton will almost certainly never get parole, no matter when he is eligible to apply for it.

A a society, we must bear some collective responsibility for making a dedicated effort to lift people out of the vicious cycle of poverty and all that it entails.

Moreover, since prostitution is already quite legal in many of its forms (sleeping with someone in exchange for dinner, or marrying someone for money, for example), we should get rid of our twisted moral squint and legalize it across the board in order to protect public health, as well as the safety of women who are pushed to the street version by life circumstances that most of us cannot begin to imagine.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:02 PM

Picton will die in jail. He'll be 83 years old when this sentence is served.

Plus, there is a possibility that he'll still be convicted on the 20 other counts. So he is not going to get out of jail alive ... and that is good, because someone like this can never be released into society under any circumstances.

But as for the death penalty ... as just as that might seem to many in a situation like this, killing prisoners just lowers us all to the level of murderers,

And even if you think it is OK to kill convicted murderers under the "eye for an eye, tooth for tooth" premise, we all know of the high-profile cases, right here in Canada, where people convincted of murder were later found innocent ...

So if we had the death penalty and in the future we mistankenly sentence an innocent person to die, we would all have murderers' blood on our hands.

I, for one, do not want that guilt. I am hoping our society is beyond that.

Posted December 11, 2007 07:56 PM

"Willie" has gone up the river for life. In twenty-five years, if he lives that long, he can apply but will be refused parole. At this point maybe it would be an idea to offer to give him a Gameboy in five years if he gives up his co-conspirators for their parts in the first six or any other murders.

Posted December 11, 2007 07:52 PM

Time to bring back the death penalty!

Posted December 11, 2007 07:30 PM

Justice has not been served just because Pickton is found guilty. There were 84 missing women and still counting. 26 have been tied to Pickton, the Police and the Crown and the community should not be happy with this result. This fact is not going to change, it's just going to fade away and back to business as usual while the number of missing continues. Very few care about the poor and unfortunate, sad but true in CANADA.

Posted December 11, 2007 07:29 PM

THIS IS B.S. EVERYTIME HE BROUGHT A WOMAN TO HIS FARM HE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO KILL HER AFTER HE WAS DONE WITH HER.THAT HAS TO BE PREMEDITATED MURDER.

Posted December 11, 2007 07:26 PM

YES !!!!! There is Justice !!

Posted December 11, 2007 07:11 PM

I think justice will be served when society demonstrates a genuine effort in protecting the women like Pickton's victims. While Pickton is responsible for many deaths, all of us are responsible for continually pushing these women to the fringes where their lives are at risk daily. We are all responsible for failing each an every one of those women. And how dare we sit in our warm and comfortable homes, captivated in front of our TV sets at 6pm sharp (no earlier) "grieving" for these women who most of us would have thought to be worthless 6 years ago. Where, I ask, is the justice for these women in that? Yes, justice will only take place when we begin to treat one another like the human beings they are.

Posted December 11, 2007 07:10 PM

Unfortunately the laws in Canada are way too soft on crime, especially murder. If you murder 6 people you should be sentenced to 6 life sentences with the parole ineligibility period to be served concurrently. In the absence of capital punishment which I support 100%, a sentence of 150 years which is 6 times 25 years would be appropriate not only for Willie Pickton but anybody convicted of multiple murders. On one hand I beleive this would be appropriate for Pickton, on the other hand he is not worth the money it will cost to incarcerate him. But I may be upset for nothing because I have a feeling he will be a tempting target for an inmate looking to make a name for himself and with nothing to loose. Here's hoping!

Posted December 11, 2007 07:10 PM

I agree with Skeptaculous. While, when taken together, one could conclude that Pickton must have intended and planned to kill at least some of his victims, if the Prosecution couldn't prove that he did in a particular case, the jury couldn't find him guilty of first-degree murder in that case. The jury could also not include anything about the other 20 women, because those have not been prosecuted.

There is nothing wrong with a second-degree charge - it does not denote these women were of any less value. And the judge has clearly recognised the 'meta facts' in this case with the sentencing.

Nevertheless, the police were obscenely arrogant and negligent in their refusing to investigate these crimes as soon as these people went missing. Police forces in Canada have too many racists and thugs in their midst, and at their helms. The responsible Vancouver Police should be prosecuted, for real justice to be served for these women and their families.

And yes, Pickton should be tried for the remaining victims as well. Justice needs to be served for those women and their families. If it were your daughter or son whom Pickton slaughtered, you would want and deserve the same.

Posted December 11, 2007 07:01 PM

NO!. Terms should be consecutive, like the victims. 25 years for number 1, PLUS 25 years for number 2, + 25 years for number 3 etc. What's with this? The system needs a strong re alignment. He is lucky to get away with his life.

Posted December 11, 2007 06:56 PM

Why would we ever want a serial killer to be let free? Why cannot we face facts- that sexual predators do not change and remain very very dangerous? Is a 70 year old serial killer rehabilitated? Can they be trusted to behave in a shopping mall with your kids?? Think!!

Posted December 11, 2007 06:49 PM

My first reaction to the jury's decision is absolute astounishment. Whether the accused operated alone is of little relevance. He participated in the brutal slaying and dismembering of a countless number of women...vulnerable women. He made a choice. The verdict, I believe, should've been six counts of first degree murder. But not only was the Crown's entire case relevant to the verdict outcome but the Judge's instructions were also very relevant. I would like to be able to read his instructions.
Nonetheless, the jury must be commended for the sacrifice they made. I hope they all receive adequate debriefings. Adequate opportunity to heal from what they were made to hear and digest for all those very long months. As for the accused....one can only hope and pray that if God doesn't take him first that another lifer will.
I also hope the BC community is successful in bringing about an inquiry into police conduct since 1998 in relation to this matter. There are numerous lessens to be learned from these women's deaths. I wonder if the police have an interest in learning. Women, and the rest of Canada, shall see.

Posted December 11, 2007 06:48 PM

Sentences for serial killers should be consecutive not concurrent. The government should change this. There should be additional time for each crime. Serial killers should be declared dangerous offenders and never let out of prison.

Posted December 11, 2007 06:38 PM

This sentence would only be adequate if it was no chance of parole for 150 years that would be appropriate. 25 years for each murder would be an appropriate and fair sentence.

Posted December 11, 2007 06:08 PM

The Jury spent and sacrificed many hours and I thank them for that.As to their duty it was clearly not discharged.How you can decide that a man has murdered 6 women : there is Testimony indicating he had an accessory bringing these women to his ranch;be found to not have a plan or premeditate the murders is incomprehensible to me.
It is sad that we do not have a system like the USA where the jury would have to defend their gross error to we the public who they are to serve.JUSTICE is clearly blind to the truth.

Posted December 11, 2007 06:06 PM

why have the police not been held accountable for the many years and many lives that their feet dragging have caused. they had ample time to come to the same conclusion as others as to whether a serial killer was at work. obviously so much more could have been done.
where is their apology to the families?

Posted December 11, 2007 06:04 PM

No not in the least. He should speng the rest of his life in jail The ruling should have been life for all counts and no chance of parole for 50 or more. this is disaponting.

Posted December 11, 2007 06:04 PM

Justice has not been served. Pehaps the first murder was not premeditated, however the following certainly were. Picton formed the plan to drive to Vancouver, pick up a woman and take her to his farm. Sound like premeditation to me.
Also, hopefully he will be tried for the balance of the murders. I know it is expensive, but we cannot put money before people. the women deserve that much, since we failed them in life. I'm sure that governemnt has wasted that much money this year alone.

Posted December 11, 2007 04:16 PM

Why are Casnova, MS Taylor and Dave Pickton not being brought to trial I feel justice has not been served as these individuals have not been charge for anything and I find it quite clear they were involved in some way.

Posted December 11, 2007 03:11 PM

I agreed with reader James Gill's comment. We should not second guess the jury. They are the one who sat thru almost a year to hear all the evidences. We are just outsiders who might have heard hearsay or biased reports. It is obvious that Robert Pickton could not have done it alone. The jury seemed to send a message that he is indeed guilty of participating in the crime, but he was just a minor player. The mastermind and other significant guilty parties are still at large.

Posted December 11, 2007 03:02 PM

Respectfully, I think many of the posters here have made a major error in their thinking about this case. The jury was charged with rendering a verdict on the PROSECUTION'S case, not on whether they thought Pickton deserved X vs. Y sentence. While we may all assess the outcome of the case based on "common sense", the jury had to limit their deliberations to the evidence presented by the prosecution. The prosecution had a steep hill to climb, with only bone chips and DNA and the testimony of admitted addicts and criminals. Still, they drew a tight circle around Mr. Pickton and his farm. The jury should be cut some slack for actually understanding the difference between what could be proven -- that Pickton was involved in each of these killings -- and what could not be proven -- that he and he alone set out to kill these women in a specific way, at a specific time, etc. We may not like the gap between "common sense" and evidence, but it's what separates juries from lynch mobs. We owe the jurors a great deal of thanks for their service.

Posted December 11, 2007 01:51 PM

FIRST FROM MY FAMILY TO ALL THE VICTOMS FAMILIES OUR PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU ALL..

AS FOR YOUR QUESTION IF TH JUDGE GIVES A SENTENCE OF LIVE ON EACH COUNT TO RUN EFFECTIVE AFTER EACH OTHER THAN NO CHANCE OF PARLOE
WOULD EVER BE CONCERDED IT IS TO BAD WE DO NOT HAVE CAPTIAL PUNNISHMENT.

Posted December 11, 2007 12:31 PM

First of all I am not a Lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. But the question how the six murders could turn into a second degree murder conviction than into first degree is rather simple: If he picked the women up for a reason OTHER than to kill them the meditation would fall wayside. If he killed them "in the throes of passion" for example the first degree charge would not stick.

This is the "problem" with the legal system, the Crown (thus the state) has to show, without a doubt, that he picked these women up with the intend to kill them. If the defense could show that this was not the case, that he never intended to kill them in the first place then "in dubio pro reo" would have applied, which seems to be the case judging by the question that the Jury asked the Judge.

I am split on my feelings over this case, on the one hand it seems clear that there was a pattern and that it is hard to conceive that any of these murders could have just happened "by accident", but on the other hand the verdict at least shows that the system IS working, the defense was given the chance to show argue their case and the jury didn't seem to be "swept away" by the perceived notion about who they were judging.

Is this "justice" for the families? Probably not. I don't think anything could have come out of the court room that would not have them feel the loss, but what people in general have to keep in mind the system we have is designed on purpose to make it as hard as possible for the Government to convict it's citizens (and keep in mind in cases like these it is the STATE who is charging the citizens, not the individuals).

I hope the Crown goes back on the other 20 cases and lays charges again and maybe gets a better conviction on these cases to make sure he never comes out again.

Posted December 11, 2007 11:44 AM

i also have to comment on the Robert Latimer issue...people are bringing it up comparatively well, somehow implying that Latimer's act of murder is somehow not reprehensible because it is "mercy killing"...and just WHO decides in a case like this if it is "mercy" killing? the very person who never got a chance to defend her life is now gone, that is Tracy Latimer...ask her, she ASKED for her father to put her in the truck and gas her to death...what a farce...i think if Latimer really believes in the injustice of our laws that prohibit "mercy killing" then he should be proud to take his punishment and stand up for his principles that he did the right thing, even though our criminal code says it's murder to "mercy kill"...and by the way, i grew up on a farm, where any surplus animals were sometimes put down with the exhaust fume method...i find it horrible to consider that "mercy killing" is somehow not murder or should be condoned...no, Latimer is as sinister a murderer as anyone else who decides that it is their right to take the life of another...no, Tracy Latimer left no statement saying she "wanted" to be "put down" because she lived in pain. How many other people with similar conditions are in a situation where they are at the "mercy" of their caregivers...if we allow Latimer to do it then many more will follow. and, he is a hippocrite to ask for amelioration of his sentence...if we still had death penalty for murder, why wouldn't Latimer be proud to go to the gallows for his principles?
Sorry folks, i find it makes something rise in the back of my throat to consider that somehow we should feel sympathy for Mr. Latimer, any more than we should feel sympathy for Mr. Pickton.

Posted December 11, 2007 10:03 AM

Mr. Harper, if you ever had a launching pad to go for stiffer sentences for violent offenders, this is it.

Show this country that you actually are tough on crime and not just tough-talking.

Posted December 11, 2007 10:00 AM

Jon (Toronto)

This issue has nothing to do with the cost of death row in the US. We are talking about criminal justice in CANADA. Stop focussing on how the US takes care of its criminals (which I admire) and focus on how Canadian society deals with its worst monsters.

Idiot.

Posted December 11, 2007 09:59 AM

Some info for the out-of-town people - this guy did not act alone, he had 5-6 accomplices - where are they ? ... free ! ... come on, anyone who even followed this from a distance knows he did not act alone ... who is getting away with it here ???

Posted December 11, 2007 09:19 AM

Two comments:
(a) It is sad that the 'justice' will have to be carried out by his fellow inmates. (Assuming he ever emerges from Super PC (protective custody).) The prison system has it's own set of rules. We despise inmates, but they will likely do society's dirty work, in term of natural law and order. Sex offenders ARE on the bottom of the totem pole 'inside'. (My various acquaintances have worked in the Kingston prisons in different capacities and have told me about the hierarchy.)

(b) I am disappointed with the failure to act on the part of the Federal government, in terms of declaring this Lower East Side Vancouver region a site of a "public health emergency". Upon reading the stories of these women, it is amazing that they are even alive. (I am thinking of Mona Wilson's account, particularly.)

(c) Just today, there is a news story here in the GTA about a father and brother who killed a girl for not wanting to wear a Hijab. She told her friends that she feared for her life. (Belief that s/he will REALLY DO IT is One of the *biggest predictors* of whether your abuser will KILL YOU.)
(However, for protection, 15 year olds aren't not covered by Children's Aid here in Ontario.)

She just wanted to be normal and fit in with her friends. We need more education to kids and teens about WHY violence and hatred towards women occurs (displaced anger), and how it escalates toward sexual harassment (a form of genderized bullying), sexual assault (date rape), domestic violence and murder, on a continuum. I'm really getting sick of the war on women and children. When a mother is de-resourced and abused and suffering, there is a a child who is de-resourced and abused and suffering, too. Kids learn from this trauma. The intergenerational misery goes on and on.

I'd like to blame Harpers, but the Liberals never did anything either, intervention-wise, did they?

Posted December 11, 2007 09:02 AM

I completely agree with the sentiments of many of the people that have posted their disbelief in second degree murder convictions.
I live in a portion of town that is right next to where these women disappeared from, I knew some of them to see them, and knew Sarah De Vries personally, from my own time living on the street. We have to remember that while the second degree murder charges seem to lack the credibility of a first degree conviction, they can't pin first until they meet certain requirements.
As has been pointed out, they can't nail a first degree conviction to Picton because they can't prove his intent to either kill these women (killing prostitutes for sport), or prove that he intended to kill particular women (killing specific persons). And that because they can't connect means of travel. How did so many women so thoroughly addicted women get from the DTES to the farm? Did Pickton go pick them up? or did he have a driver (accomplice)?
And as for accomplices, the true story of who knew what will most likely never be told because (personally) I don't think that the police will ever find all of the people that they wanted to question about the murders. Pickton's brother Dave is an example.
The real question in my mind is will the justice be served for the other women, or will the graves of these women be back filled for the sake of expediency, and the sake of the taxpayer.
Go look at your daughter, Sister, or a beloved female friend....Would you want their deaths to remain unresolved because of taxpayer concerns? All these womwen were such a person to someone somewhere.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:57 AM

I read in a recent news item that two women in Pakistan had been murdered (beheaded) by suspected Taleban militants who want to impose "strict Sharia Law) upon the community, that is, capital punishment for prostitutes .... the two women were accused of and probably were, prostitutes. i believe that Pickton's prejudice in judging the women he killed as "evil" (so he stated that he was trying to live by the Ten Commandments...hmmm, looks like he missed the big one, Thou Shalt Not Kill, anyway....) and so was doing some kind of twisted service to humanity by carrying out these murders. Well, the reason and the only reason, that the disappearance of these women was disregarded, why it took so long for authorities to take action, is that we as a society are not so far from condemning women who are prostitutes, and we all know that is true, only with the continued outcry of family and friends of these women did anyone who could do something about it pay attention...if it's ok to shrug off the "disappearance" of a woman who is regarded as "a prostitute", yes, it is still regarded as a crime against society to engage in prostitution yet what about everyone else who is involved? in my view, at least the (supposed) Taleban who want to impose laws that condemn wayward women to death are upfront, open and honest about their intentions.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:32 AM

I do not believe that justice was served when the pig farmer/serial murderer was sentenced to life in prison. Why does that deviant deserve to live with three square meals a day, television and a place to workout if he so chooses? Why does he get to live on taxpayers money after killing and torturing so many women? If a rabid dog was to terrorize and bite people, that dog would be destroyed. Why does this rabid man deserve better than a sick dog? I feel that the whole concept is disgusting. An eye for an eye may discourage others from doing the same thing Pickton did. I find this very depressing to know that he will never be truly punished for his crimes, simply because he is(sadly)Canadian.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:20 AM

Anyone who thinks Pickton will ever be released doesn't understand Canadians.

They'll keep him locked away until he dies a slow death in prison, if only for his own safety.

On another note, let's work on keeping people we know off the street, keep them from ending up in the ditches of our cities. It's rare that a life that ends up on East Hastings lives to see many happy days.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:19 AM

I have an idea. Call a meeting of all West Vancouver hookers with Robert Picton as the guest speaker. Lock the doors for two hours and let them work an appropriate sentence for him.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:03 AM

Apparantly, the verdict will allow, if not require, incarceration for life, so in that sense, justice may be served. However, the failure convict for 1st degree strikes me as bizarre. I've never heard of a serial killer lacking premeditation before.

Posted December 11, 2007 08:00 AM

Some of these posts are getting a little silly.
For instance the judge CAN NOT make the sentences one after the other. This is not an option for the judge to make. NO MATTER HOW BAD THE CRIME. This is part of Canadian law, and like it of not, the judge just can't change the law as he feels like.

Secondly, Yes, technically 2nd degree murder, you can get parole in 10 years or 25 years. The likelyhood of that happening in this case is a flat 0%. Do any of you seriously think there is any real chance he will be set free in 10 years, well actually way less, since time served already would be counted against that times 2.

You need not panick folks, that he will be set free in 5 or 6 years!
In all likelyhood, he will get a parole hearing in 25 years, that will last a good 5 minutes where he will be denied.

Posted December 11, 2007 07:49 AM

I am totally stunned by the verdict as everyone is with it being "second degree murder" what is wrong with us bleeding heart Canadians. This is total injustice, and can only ask the members of the jury what if it were their daughter, mother, sister. What is wrong with them.
Maybe second degree for the first murder, but every murder after that was premeditated first degree murder.
I am ashamed of them. I am ashamed of our system for allowing this. I am ashamed of the excuses we as Canadians continue to do as Bleeding Hearts.

Posted December 11, 2007 07:49 AM

1. For those complaining about first versus second degree murder, please read the post by Neil Williams. Yes, Pickton took women to his farm. Yes, many of those women ended up dead. Yes, he was connected to those murders. But no, it was not proven that he took each woman to his farm to kill them. There was no evidence to prove exactly what happened or what Pickton was planning/thinking.

2. Pickton will never receive parole, so justice was served.

3. Dangerous Offender designation doesn't apply to first and second degree murders. Dangerous Offender designation can only be added to sentences with a specific number of years for incarceration (i.e. a sentence of life doesn't quality).

4. We don't have the death penalty in this country so no point even discussing it.

Posted December 11, 2007 07:21 AM

so six years of pretrial "dead" time,have allready been served, doubled which is the standard,equals 12 years, elligable for parole after 10 years ,concurent or consecutive, do the crime, do the time. i fully expect an application for day parole,12 years into a 25 bit,he's allready served one third,its his rights under the parole boards mandate to apply, he might get to 50 yet,but don't hold your breath.dave dinah and pat are still out there, is your daughter at home,have you seen your sister lately, you have only seen the tip of the iceburg.

Posted December 11, 2007 07:18 AM

the canadian judical system is a total sham. here we have a person convicted of six counts of murder and will receive a sentence of possibly 25 years(life)with possibility of parole in 10 years - total stupidity.he will serve six life sentences concurrently - totally assinine.
in any other juristiction this person would possibly get the same sentence,but at the very least serve the six life sentences consecutively, ensuring no possible parole.
this system sucks and the mammby-pammby do-gooders better become aware of it.

Posted December 11, 2007 06:45 AM

Yes, in so far as Pickton will likely never be released from prison,justice is served. However, can true justice for the horrific deeds perpetrated ever be served? I doubt it.
I strongly suspect the Robert Willie Picton did not act alone in perpetrating these murders; so,further justice will be served only when the remaining guilty parties are tried and convicted.

Posted December 11, 2007 05:43 AM

I suspect the explanation for second, rather than first, degree convictions may lie in underlying ugly attitudes: ie "those women" are in some fashion responsible. As well, I suspect the verdicts points to a basic denial of the stark ugliness of the reality of these multiple murders.

Posted December 11, 2007 05:41 AM

I cannot fathom the reason why this animal was not charged with first degree murder. 6 counts of second degree murder just does not make sense to me. He should be put away for life. No chance of parole for 10 years?? Why should he even have a chance at anything..did those 6 women have a chance?? Heck no! Put this sad excuse for a human away for ever just like Bernardo..hey..maybe they could share the same cell!

Posted December 11, 2007 05:39 AM

If this doesn't qualify for a FIRST DEGREE murder conviction, just what would constitute FIRST DEGREE in this country?

Posted December 11, 2007 05:36 AM

No. I don't understand how Picton could have killed 6 girls and it not be premeditated. I mean he picks them up on the lower east side then takes them to his farm and chops them up. Maybe the first one was 2nd degree murder but surely by the fifth - it's premeditated murder, i.e. First Degree murder.

Posted December 11, 2007 05:05 AM

Only partially. There is little doubt that so many murders had to be premeditated. First degree is really the only conviction he should have had.

Posted December 11, 2007 04:40 AM

I'm sorry, but after you bring one young woman home and happen to kill her, the next 25 are premeditated no matter what way you look at it. One count of second and 25 of first. Period!

Posted December 11, 2007 04:33 AM

I have yet to read all of the postings and maybe this has already been broached, but he has been found guilty in playing a part in the deaths of these 6 women.

My only question is when will Canada even consider 6 consecutive life sentences, if there ever was a case that needed it, this is one. I know that a life sentence is a life sentence but to even provide this man with the opportunity to see request parole in 10, 15 or 25 years is preposterous. Six or twenty six life sentences, served concurently in Canada is just that, a life sentence with the chance of parole in 10 to 25 years. Six or Twenty six life sentences served consecutively, well it goes without saying that this man will never see the light of day again and the families of the victims will not have to ensure that they attend every parole request to ensure that he remains right where he is.

Posted December 11, 2007 04:17 AM

I can not imagine what it must have been like to be a juror for this trial. I can not imagine what darkness may linger, forever, in the mind, hearts and spirits of these brave men and women who gave of themselves for months.. .listening and reexperiencing the trauma inflicted upon the women who will be forever gone.

Thank you.

You heard the evidence and if 2nd degree is what you determined so be it.

I know, the emotional response is to say, "What? No 1st degree conviction, those dumb bastards... what we they thinking, Pickton is not fit to be a human..."

Verdicts are decided based on evidence.

Take your beefs up with the police and the lawyers...

or maybe accept that Willie Pickton did not do this alone.

Posted December 10, 2007 10:10 PM

Hello Everone,

clearly to me, we are all missing the boat with this trial,

all this publicity regarding the Mr Pickton, not enought regarding WHY we have prostitution in the Streets?

why these women were NOT cared for by their families and ended up into prostitution?

after all of this is finish...is prostitution will still be going on in Vanvouver?

we should really considered, stop putting money into this case, and start putting money to help educate prostitute of the street, to actually take them OUT of the street and pursue a more normal live!

Bottom Line

1-Family of the prostitues : should help their children getting off the streets ASAP!
2-education is the key to getting these people off the streets!
3-invest in our children education

Posted December 10, 2007 08:59 PM

Only if he never sees the light of day again. Only if this does not repeat itself. But over and over these women due to their perceived value, are not listened to. Like it was said these are someones daughter and someones sister and friend. They do matter. They must matter. I am not a very religious person, but Jesus did say something whatever you do to these little ones you do unto me. But sadly this will happen again and is happening now.

Posted December 10, 2007 07:56 PM

I am a teenager and I personally believe that Willie Pickton is guilty of murder, whether first or second degree that is the duty of the 12 juroros. My opinion however is that the media played a huge role in the people's mind. The newspapers, radios and TV's portrayed Pickton as a killer the whole time, thus planting an image in our mind of him as guilty. I do not understand how a person cannot premeditate 5 murders after he had already committed one? However I was not in the courtroom and only know what the media tell me. Maybe the jurors believed that because of his mental disabiities Pickton had not planned out the murders. I believed first I read about this story in 2005 when I was in grade 7 that he was guilty. However after reading more and understanding the complexity of the situation I soon gathered the opinion of Pickton either being guilty of not all 6 first degree charges or all but on a lesser charge. Finally I credit the defence, they made a fantastic case for a man who many people thought was guilty.
In my Social Studies class of 23, I was the only one who realized how much influence the media had on society. The media portrayed Pickton as a killer and many people thought he was, however one should remember in Canada you are innocent until proven guilty.
I congratulate the Jury for their work on this case and understanding the mountains of evidence. I am considering a career in law and therefore always read and listen to court stories such as Conrad Black, and many others.
I am just a teenager, but soon I will be an adult, and therefore I feel it is important for me to learn about adult life. I learned that the media can influence us, and our justice system is fair and honest, by having a Jury and giving both sides an equal and unbiased chance to make a case for their clients.
It is now up to the Judge to sentence Mr. Pickton, and until then all we can do is wait.

Posted December 10, 2007 07:18 PM

To clarify something, second degree murder doesn't mean the killing was "unintentional", it means it was not premeditated, ie: planned out before hand. Manslaughter is unintentional.

Still, I have a hard time believing they weren't premeditaded, but the jury is just doing what they can within the rigid confines of the law. It's hard to prove premeditation beyond reasonable doubt.

Posted December 10, 2007 05:32 PM

Ken Warren (teaching_in_China) wrote: "What would happen to Willie if his crimes were committed here in China? OOOoo, is Willie ever lucky he's Canadian."

Hardly. In China, he would likely have paid off the local communists and have reached his (new) goal of 100 - probably with lots of help from his powerful "friends", who enjoy the party atmosphere of the farm.

Now if he cricicized or stole from the gov't - that's a different story.

Posted December 10, 2007 03:10 PM

Perhaps I don't know enough about the process of coming to a verdict in a case like this. Robert Pickton killed at least 6 women...how could it possibly be that all of them were unintentional? He took all of those girls to a remote farm with the promise of free drugs and is suspected of killing up to 26 women from Vancouver's drug ridden lower east side. He is a sick man and I'm sure there is no chance of him becoming fully rehabilitated. I doubt Robert Pickton will ever be a free man, but the families should have at least been given the respect of aknowledging that their daughters were murdered and that this was no accident.

Posted December 10, 2007 03:04 PM

My overall view of the trial is how the media was kept out of the fray.I think that the side show and the sensationalism in our media is put to shame by your coverage. It is a policy of resepct for an unbias trial environment that our sociity lacks. The restraint in the guise of ones right to know should have limitations for a fair trail to procede. I remember when the story first broke about the murders the US media showed up with thier tyipcal cranivel and readied themselves for keeping everyone on the edge of their livingroom seats with all the gory details. I'm glad you throw thewm out. I'm sick of pretrail publicity and know of the effects it has on the excused as well as the victims families. I feel that such trails as OJ Simpsons pionts amply to the negative effect of a judcial procedeings. Cameras in court with all the details. Also the pertrail pionts of discovery was better then I've seen here. Very offend surprise eviedence can be interjected into a trail.Many times lekt unchecked in our court procededings.One thing did seem odd. A woman who had a web site was interviewed. She stated that she was at the court procedeings. I wonder if she was in viiolation of the media rules? Did she publish any proceedings Even the indepth media programs here leads to a bickering of two opposite views. There is'nt anything but an interplay of bias where one person has the same view consistantly. Don Hanely of the Eagles said it well. Its interesting when people die gives us dirty laundry. Sorry for any misspelle words, I'm a product of the Washington shcool system. Sometimes I wonder if the whole system will revert back to prarading the accused naked down Main Street giving the citizens rotten eggs to pelt the suspect before he is proven guilty. I know our media bores a peep hole into any activity of an individaul without any regard to thier privacy or innocence. Way to go!!!

Posted December 10, 2007 01:59 PM

Pickton gets six second degree murder charges and Rob Latimer can't get into a halfway house because he doesn't show remorse (at least not the way the system wants him to). Pickton is a serial killer, he's a murderer, he's Hannibal Lecter, he killed 6 women! Sometimes I just don't get it.

Posted December 10, 2007 01:28 PM

I disagree with Crown counsel's contention that a verdict of guilty of six counts of 2nd degree murder is a victory and virtually the same thing as 1st degree murder, due to the fact that the sentence for both crimes is essentially equal. It's not the length of time that Pickton will serve at tax-payers expense that matters in this case, though the fact he might never see the light of day with the exception of another trial has me happy BC has put some justice back in the Justice system. It's the message that the verdict sends - how can anyone believe that a person could lure, take prisoner, torture and mutilate 6 (or many more) women without some degree of premeditation? OK, maybe the benefit of the doubt for the first victim; the subsequent victims followed a similar pattern as Pickton developed an appetite, blood-lust and worked on his craft. We will have to wait for some juror to write his/her unauthorized memoirs to know what may have gone on those two long weeks in deliberation. However, one can only guess that the verdict may have stemmed from some nagging thought in the back of several people's minds that Pickton did not act alone; did not have the mental capacity to have executed so elaborate a scheme and for so long. The real travesty in this verdict is that it somehow reinforces the pathetic attitude that colored this case from the word go - that these women would not be missed or mourned, and that, in the end, the system would make victims of them (and their families) again.

Posted December 10, 2007 12:59 PM

I don't have time to read all these posts, I just have one simple thought/question (not being educated in law - beyond television court dramas, like most of us)...
I could understand 2nd degree if all 6 women were in one place, and he did not plan to kill them (pre-meditate) but did something (like drink and drive, or bomb a public place) which resulted in all 6 deaths at one time and by one action. But how, in any sane understanding of logic, could the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th time a person 'happens' to kill a human being 'without pre-meditation', in basicaly the same manner, and then dispose of the bodies (demonstrating a sound mind and knowledge of one's wrong doing) be NOT considered pre-meditated and therefore 1st degree murder?

Under what circumstances is one to believe the perpetrator had NO understanding or ability to comprehend the liklihood of the outcome of taking the same actions 5 (and perhaps 25 or 50) more times after the first time it 'resulted' in murder. How can a reasonable person not come to the conculsion that this, (by a VERY generous consideration) is AT BEST one count of 2nd degree murder and all subsequent events pre-meditated first degree murder of human beings.
When the hell are we going to stand up and ask for some common sense to be used in our world?

Posted December 10, 2007 12:57 PM

I, for one, am not going to second guess a jury who have had the opportunity to hear all of the evidence and make sense of it. The jury had the opportunity to consider whether or not to convict for first degree, and chose not to do so.

Given the jury's question to the judge about their ability to convict where they believe that he acted indirectly, I think we can all draw inferences as to why they found him guilty of second degree murder rather than first degree murder.

Posted December 10, 2007 12:52 PM

Why he didnt get the death penalty by bullet to the head is beyond me.

Posted December 10, 2007 12:49 PM

This is a case where justice gets lost in the technicalities. How can the death of 6 women be not premeditated? Where is the common sense in the justice system these days? Did the government not find enough evidence, hear enough testimonies, or find enough bone fragments on this killer's farm? Let's bring back the death penalty so that real justice can be served in such cases! I am appalled!

Posted December 10, 2007 12:43 PM

Ours is a nuanced and understated justice system. It operates under the theory that it's better to err on the side of mercy. While at times this may outrage us, this is more beneficial in a civilised society than not.

As for Robert Pickton, there is no doubt that with 6 murder convictions and 20-something more coming down the pipe, he will spend the rest of his life in prison. Therefore the net effect is the same, and our justice system -- understated though it is -- will get the job done. We may not get the faux-closure of a 100+ year sentence, but he's off the streets for good.

Posted December 10, 2007 12:39 PM

My faith in the jury system is shakend when the jury called it 2nd degree murder. He is a serial killer for godsake.

Posted December 10, 2007 12:30 PM

We have a story of two Roberts. One Robert is convicted of the mercy killing of his severely disabled daughter. His day parole was denied and he could spend ten years in prison before his release. The other Robert was found guilty of second degree murder in the butchering of six women and who really knows how many other women (how he was not found guilty of first degree murder will always dumbfound me). So theoretically the serial killer could also be out in ten years. If this isn't a mockery of justice I don't know what is.

Posted December 10, 2007 12:28 PM

Jon (Toronto),
So, you believe anyone with a different view than yours is an idiot. Maybe you should write a manual so we can learn your ways, almighty one.
I really don't care how much it costs in the US. This has nothing to do with money, it has to do with lives. It is my personal opinion that Pickton deserves death for what he did.
Justice will not be served until his heart stops beating. You can disagree with me. I don't care.

Posted December 10, 2007 11:54 AM

In case like this Justice can never be served without Capital Punishment.

Posted December 10, 2007 11:52 AM

I have never been more disgusted with the outcome of a trial in my life. How is a SERIAL KILLER a second-degree murderer? Call me crazy, but the murder of well over twenty women (and who knows how many more) seems premeditated to me, and the issue of whether or not he knew each of them personally by name and history seems irrelevant.

This is a classic case of social status working its way into a verdict. You think if these were six women from West Vancouver that it would still be considered second degree murder? Fat chance. Because these women were prostitutes, they got themselves into a sticky situation, and in a fit of passion, they are fed to the pigs. The justice system has failed these women by refusing until the bitter end to recognize them as daughters, grandaughters, mothers, aunts, children, HUMAN BEINGS and has instead treated them like trash. I seriously wonder if there were more woman on the jury if the outcome would have been different.

Conrad Black steals money from the wealthy and gets life.
Pickton steals the lives of our children and may yet walk a free man. Insanity.

Posted December 10, 2007 11:51 AM

I don't believe the crown can choose to declare him a dangerous offender... I believe that has to be done at the beginning of a trial, and chronicalogically I don't think historical crimes count... I could be mistaken, however.

Was justice served? Robert Pickton sat in front of a panel of his peers, who returned a verdict based on the evidence they heard, as they saw fit. Yes, justice was served - regardless of the verdict.

We can all question the jury, but unless we were in both the courtroom every day as well as the deliberations, we have no right to. We are not privy to all the information, even if we desire it, especially in light of a potential second trial. To determine the motives of another person has to be one of the most difficult tasks we oculd be asked to do... and I'm sure they did their best.

As for a second trial, I understand the victims' families need for closure, but on a prgamatic as opposed to emotional side, have to ask myself why? If he is sentenced to life-25, he will be well into his 80s before he is able to even apply for parole. Extra charges will not change this, as whether we like it or not, one can currently only serve a single life sentence. Therefore, it seems to be a rather large expense for no practical gain in terms of sentencing. In addition, if he is a premediatated serial killer, as so many believe, the recognition of numbers is important to him. Therefore, additional guilty verdicts may acutally be seen as a positive thing for him, as opposed to additional punishment... Again, I understand the victims need for closure - I'm just not sure as a taxpayer I see a need for the expense....

Posted December 10, 2007 11:48 AM

Most has already been said here except for one thing, (correct me if I'm wrong) but watching all the grief expressed by the families some real and some self serving the question still comes to my mind over and over again . . . . where were some of these concerned families when these poor unfortunate women were living these exposed lives? Suddenly, they appear out of nowhere looking for free transportation, accommodation, sympathy and whatever more they can get out of the taxpayers on top of what they already get.

I feel sadness for those poor women who no doubt suffered greatly during their short lives. I wish we could do something about bringing them back and finding the others still missing, perhaps we can.

I believe Willy Picton should have been guilty of first-degree murder on all six counts for all the reasons posted above. I also believe that those 12 jurors did the best they could within their knowledge base and I am grateful for their hard work and feel for them and the suffering they will endure for the rest of their lives. I also believe that there were a lot higher up individuals who aided and abetted these murders or partook of the benefits of them and they need exposing. I blame the Vancouver police as well for falling into the trap of uncaring led by those who employ them.I don't believe the good of the general public will be served by proceeding with the other 20 charges. The verdicts can not be any different at best than what has already been rendered and the costs both financially and psychologically need not be endured by anyone including the families. I think the investigations need to go on and that anyone other than Picton being found complicit in these deaths or others should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

It's time to move on . . . . .

Posted December 10, 2007 11:40 AM

Second degree murder??? I just hope for the sake of the victims and their families that the police is actively investigating other people, and will get someone actually convicted at the first degree. This is the only thing that would bring even a shadow of closure on this horrible story. Think about it, at least 26 poor girls are murdered and butchered, a clear link is established between these events and someone and/or a group of very sick people, but nobody is made to properly answer for those crimes? What kind of justice are we running?

Posted December 10, 2007 11:40 AM

While the jury finding of 2nd degree as opposed to 1st degree murder may seem outrageous, we need to remember that the jury had to deliberate on the facts presented by the crown and the argument for/against a 1st degree conviction. If teh jury ignored the facts and simply found for 1st degree because 'it made the most sense' it would only be grounds for an appeal. Do we really want this individual to continue to drag this already very sad tale through the courts for years to come? I am content with whatever crime he is convicted of as long as he never, ever gets out of jail.

Posted December 10, 2007 11:37 AM

No, justice has not been served. If the verdict is compared to the lighting of a firecraacker, it has fizzled out. Wither the prosecution has not done a full job or the jury did not understand things. True, I was not in the courtroom, but all I hear and read, there was ample evidence of premeditation. If there had only been one count, then there might not be premed. But 6 deaths?? Six women at various times going there and all found dead, if that`s not premeditation then I don`t know what is The next thing to consider is sentencing. No one has touched on or mentioned CONSECUTIVE sentences on the counts. It is common in U.S. courts but not here. There should be nothing less than consecutive counts on all convictions. Too bad we cannot adopt the best law system in the world-the United States Of Admerica.

Posted December 10, 2007 11:27 AM

After the first murder, how could the others NOT have been premditated?

Posted December 10, 2007 11:26 AM

This question is premature until we know the sentence. Hopefully, Pickton will spend the rest of his miscreant life in prison (and not Club Fed either!)

In Canada, it's "murder one and get the rest for free"!! This is outrageous and must be changed by Parliament. Concurrent sentences MUST be abolished. There should be consecutive sentences for serial crimes. Serial killers, like Pickton, MUST be sent a strong message of deterrence. He (and they) MUST never see the light of day again.

Posted December 10, 2007 11:24 AM

If Andrea Yates can murder 5 of her children and be found not guilty by reason of insanity, then Pickton should be made governor general.

By a standard commonly applied in Canada, Pickton is insane. Why he found guilty of anything is a mystery to me.

Posted December 10, 2007 11:24 AM

I think about the families of the 20 others. The chance that there may not be another trial must be very difficult to absorb. The fact that there likely would not be a first degree murder charge must make them sick. If it were my family...my daughter....I would need someone to answer in a court of law...I would need to here the words of the jury -Guilty of murder in the 1st degree. Then I would rest!

Posted December 10, 2007 11:20 AM

This guy is a very sick man.....and I hope people come to see this....it is sad for the families.....and we need to understand that he was not the only person on the pig farm....and we need to undertand that the people around him are not normal people mentally.......I understand that the girls are humans.....I understand the anger, hurt, sadness, but we have to remember we have no say how we leave this big world....the higher power sometimes takes people and when it is our time it is our time....But keep in mind that this man Robert is a sick man....he has to be if you think about what has happen on his Pig Farm......and to heal we need to see all views and my big question is qhy no one turned this man in years ago????? He is a sick person........

Posted December 10, 2007 11:07 AM

Justice was not served because it's now obvious that Willie was only one of many people involved. If the blame is only palced on him the real killer 9s) are roaming free.

Think about it: Willie told police to start digging on his property because he probably didn't know exactly what was there. His brother Dave who has a history of violence said he knew where bodies were buried and immediately cast blame on Willie. The police searched the properrty twice and didn't find anything. Once Willie was in jail they searched it again and found body parts lying around in the open.

This whole thing was a keystone cops investigation and Willie Pickton got railroaded. I'm not saying he isn't guilty but he certainly isn't the most guilty.

Posted December 10, 2007 10:55 AM

the picton trial is a testiment to the jury system in the country. The tough and hard work done by all those in the system should be recoginized. The crown presented its case in an unemotional and rational manner, the defence advocated for thier client, ensuring that if there was a guilty plea it was delivered in a fair trial, the judge instructed the jury and had the sense to know when a mistake was made, admit to it and clear it up right away (the ability to say I'm wrong and fix it may avoid an appeal), and a jury who thought carefully and came to a verdict that makes sense. to those who are angry or dissappointed that there are not first degree murder convictions, hand some respect to the folks who sat though ALL the evidence, listened to the judges charge and did thier best. they are in the best position to judge. And yes, to the person in BC, I think the crown would have little trouble having Picton declared a dangerous offender.

Posted December 10, 2007 10:47 AM

Second degree murder for six deaths over a considerable period of time makes no sense to me.

In any case, I hope the police are still looking out for other people who knew about, and/or participated in these murders.

Posted December 10, 2007 10:44 AM

Haha I love how this gets turned into a capital punishment debate. FYI, it costs more to taxpayers in the U.S. to put a prisoner on death row due to the various appeals and other legal processes than to lock him in prison for 20 years.

Or perhaps we should do away with the legal process altogether and just hang anyone even accused of murder without giving him due process, lets bring back the witch hunts because I can't live without the few dollars it cost me to give this man a fair trial.

An eye for an eye isn't going to bring anyone back.

Idiots.

Posted December 10, 2007 10:43 AM

Second degree with no parole for ten years. The same as Robert Latimer received. Surely this is not right, Pickton deserves far more severe a a sentence if justice is to be served.

Posted December 10, 2007 10:39 AM

How is this even possible? 6 counts of 2nd degree murder, all at different times...
So he kept planning on not killing them and then in the heat of moment he happened to? That just defies all logic.
I thought 2nd degree murder was a so called "crime of passion?" Husband comes home, finds his wife in bed with another man and kills them both.
Do we have 5th graders on the jury? Honestly, whats wrong with our justice system. The least the judge could have done was make him serve the six sentences consecutivly and not concurrently. Then he wouldn't be eligible for parole for sixty years.
Wake up - this verdict is an absolute joke. The judge and jury should both be ashamed of themselves. The media and the people of Canada need to take a stand on this.

Posted December 10, 2007 10:39 AM

Perhaps one of my fellow armchair lawyers could confirm this for me, however, I believe the conviction on second degree murder charges is correct. As I understand it, what is at issue here is not whether Pickton intended to kill people (clearly, he did), but whether he intended to kill SPECIFIC people. Since there was no evidence that he held a grudge against any of the six women and had set out to deliberately injure them, rather than just picking up six women at random and killing them later, second degree murder is the appropriate charge.
I do think justice has been served, although, the final sentencing for parole eligibility should confirm or deny this. Even the most lenient of our justice system's wrist-slappers should be able to see that six murder convictions should equal a long time in jail, little to no eligibility for parole, and probably dangerous offender status, to keep him behind bars until the day he dies.

Posted December 10, 2007 10:37 AM

The Pickton murders are now our dark history. How we as a society deal with these murders will be reviewed a reanalysis in the future. No one will enjoy hearing the details of the other 20 women murders. But we must go on. We must as a society bear witness and prosecute these other murders. Even if the outcome seems useless. History will not appreciate the cost saving on our morally and pocket book if we don’t

Posted December 10, 2007 10:34 AM

How is it possible this person could NOT be charged with first degree murder? There must be something terribly wrong with the Canadian justice system to allow such an obvious and prolific serial killer to murder so many people and potentially get out of jail in 10 years.

Posted December 10, 2007 10:29 AM

Many of you are saying he's eligible for parole in 10 years. That is not a fact. His sentence is for life, however, due to pre-sentence custody (5 years) counted as double (10 years), and concurrent vs consecutive sentencing, as well as a Liberal law making statutory release at 2/3ds of your sentence, it is entirely possible that he's eligible for parole before he even hits any prison. Don't be surprised if he doesn't get it, but it says something about our laws if you can kill six women at six different times and get second degree murder. That's ludicrous.

In my view, the judge should have better instructed the jury. Second degree in a serial murder trial is unfathomable, and objectionable. He should have informed the jury either to acquit or find guilty of first degree on each of the 6 counts.

Another fact is that first degree can even be pursued with a momentary pre-meditation. How does the jury account for the time in between the abduction, the torture and the death? Plenty of pre-meditation, a total lack of justice.

Posted December 10, 2007 10:12 AM

Guilty of first degree murder and the death sentence for sure. Cant do it here? Send him away to where they can. he should definately be convicted of all twenty six women who were daughters n mothers n sisters n friends n aunties etc....Why does money even come into the picture for these women.There is not enough money to compensate for these women who had to suffer at the hands of this monster. The money being spent on Pickton although is a shame and a total waste of taxpayers dollars. Let us just say an eye for an eye and do what is right and kill this bastard and be done with the problem once and for all.I dont get our justice system as it seems to protect the criminal and now there is actually a chance he could someday get out??? When will these children of our creator have a chance to live? These women who are faceless and dehumanized by our justice system will never have the chance to walk free and live their dreams. I am ashamed to be a part of this country in which the guilty are protected while the innoscent continue to fight for their lives.Justice will be done when this animal is putdown (death).

Posted December 10, 2007 10:09 AM

I am satisfied that he will pay the price no matter what although feel that it should of been first degree. I was a key witness and feel that I have given almost six years of my life to see a conviction. Disapointed with the publicity I got and dont feel I hade a fair shake. I pay income tax like everyone else and have turned my life around to be a productive member of society although still labeled a undesirable member of society because of my past. I have to deal with false acusations from the media and the public but I can also look my self in the mirror and be proud of the fact that I tried to do the proper thing..

Posted December 10, 2007 10:04 AM

Once more our "Justice" system has shown their disdain for women.It makes me sick to think that a murderous scumbag, like Pickton, has walked away with a much lesser sentence, just because he killed a woman. Now there will be appeals upon appeals and eventually he will walk. He IS a "dangerous offender", and should be incarcerated forever.

Posted December 10, 2007 10:01 AM

If the first murder wasn't pre-planned and the second was just a coincidence and the third, well let's just call that bad luck. What is the fourth? If that isn't planned first degree murder I don't know what is. What are we going to call the murders of the next 20 women? The inability of our court system to properly convict and sentence the worst of our violent criminals makes me sick. It needs to dramatically change.

Posted December 10, 2007 09:54 AM

If the judge gives Pickton 25 years of jail time how come that would not be 150 years,because 25 times 6 guilty counts would be 150 years.If not then it dosen't matter if you murder one person or 6 or 26.Each women deserves to have a 25 year sentence for their killer,respect the women and give equal justice.Thankyou.

Posted December 10, 2007 09:30 AM

The only just thing to do with this ass backwards verdict, is for the judge to impose 6 consecutive life sentences. At least he then would do a minimum of 60 years before having a parole hearing. Concurrent should not be an option for any sentence. What kind of punishment is that? Our justice system needs to be over hauled. Give severe jail time. Why is it when a judge throws the book at someone, it goes straight to appeal because they compare the sentence to another judge's bad sentence of lesser time given. If the law allows the max, the sentence should stand at what is given. SCREW THE CRIMINALS. I am so sick of our lax punishments.

Posted December 10, 2007 09:24 AM

I think people commenting on this board watch too much television, and that is where they get the idea that a first degree murder conviction is necessary for justice. This isn't Law & Order, however, and 1st or 2nd degree doesn't really change that much, practically speaking.
A life sentence is a life sentence, and Pickton has six of them. He will be eligible to apply for parole at some point, but with six murder convictions (and possibly 20 more to come) it's going to be a stretch for him to argue that he should be set free, even in 25 years time. First degree murder is hard to prove because you must prove the mental elements of the crime to a specific degree. Evidence like that is extremely hard to come by.
Congratulations to all of those involved in this harrowing trial, and good luck on the one still to come.

Posted December 10, 2007 09:06 AM

I do not beleive that justice has been served. I do however feel that this decision might be a advantageous in that there is a better chance of the other 20 accusations going to trial. If he had gotten 1st degree right away the other 20 cases might have been thrown out of court because he can't get a tougher sentence than life 25, which is the minimum sentence for 1st degree murder, regardless of how many times he is found guilty. If he gets less than that, then going to court for 20 more cases is more justified. It's happened before. That is just the way our super legal system works.

Posted December 10, 2007 08:46 AM

Two words...Death Penalty.

Posted December 10, 2007 08:39 AM

In the same week, Robert Latimer is left in jail, Karla Homolka walks free, and for some unfathomable reason, Picton gets convicted of second degree murder, and theoretically at least, is eligible for parole after ten years, same as Latimer.

Something is rotten is the state of Canada.

Posted December 10, 2007 08:38 AM

What is the differece between first second third degrees the amount of torture these ladies each went thru i do not think so! Murder is Murder! God bless all the families and supporters.
Joy

Posted December 10, 2007 08:30 AM

Justice has not been served. With the evidence available to the Crown, the Crown should have been able to secure a verdict of first degree murder. A litums test for the trial is the need for the trial judge to correct his instructions to the jury on a point that is vital to this question. The instruction in question is not a difficult point, and it is difficult to understand why the judge would have erred, and why it took so long for the error to come to mind. From the trial coverage it is not clear whether either of the two sets of counsel brought it to his attention (and one of them should have caught it and done so) or whether it occured to the judge on his own. If the former, it should have happened sooner. If the latter, while we should be glad it happened at all, we are left to wonder what brought it to the judge's attention, and what effect the delay had on the jury.

Posted December 10, 2007 08:12 AM

The jury did a fantastic job in this case and followed the rule of law and fundamental principles of justice very well. 1st degree murder is very hard to prove, as we all know from examining our Criminal Codes, because it requires Specific Intent, and Subjective Mens Rea, beyond a reasonable doubt, in each circumstance. The crown failed in proving these, and the defense found the reasonable doubt. Everything at trial happened as it should have. If there is a problem with this, it is the politicians who wrote the Code whom are to blame.

Second degree murder really gets the same thing though. He will never get parole, and he will die in prison, which is much worse than just being put to death. He also should bot get DAngerous offender status, it would make him eligible for parole after 7 years, and every 2 years after that. A life sentence is worse, thats why Clifford Olsen has a life sentence and not dangerous offender status.

I think the jurors did an excellent job with what they were presented with.

Posted December 10, 2007 07:56 AM

We need a public inquiry as to how the system did NOT work to protect these women. (Plus those ugly rumours about Hell's Angels involvement). Maybe things have changed now but a public inquiry would help ensure that the changes stick and ensure that our society does more to protect sex trade workers now.

Thank goodness Stevie Cameron is writing a book on the case. She is a great investigative journalist.

I am surprised by the second degree verdict as the six women were consecutively murdered. But I respect the job the jurors did and their year long commitment to a trial from hell.

Posted December 10, 2007 07:40 AM

I think a lot of the posters are upset, because they don't understand the difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder.
The fact that he killed more than one person doesn't really come into play.

First degree murder would be like, I am going to go find Miss X, bring her back here and kill her. Or even, I am going to go find a hooker, bring her back and kill her.

Second degree would be like, I am going to go get a hooker, something goes wrong during the session and he kills her.

One thing to consider would be if he gets hookers everynight, and kills one every few weeks, then it would be second degree.
If he killed each and everyone he brought back, then first degree.

Posted December 10, 2007 07:39 AM

The rule of law prevailed. Where there is no "rule of law",
Pickton would have been hanged 10 months ago.

Posted December 10, 2007 07:38 AM

No I don't think second degree was the right sentence.

He has said on tape that he killed 49 people.

Also this may be the wrong thing to say , but willy picton has not said that they were all women,people are forgetting that there are many people missing in BC not just adults, but children as well.

This should be looked into as deeply as possible.

One more question why is it that BC has had two mass murders?

Posted December 10, 2007 07:27 AM

So a guy kills at least 6 differen't women that we know for sure of so far on 6 differen't occasions and not one time was it considered premeditated? Our justice system is almost as much of a joke as the O.J. system in the US.
We've wasted millions trying this case so far, we'll waste millions more in a second trial and then hundreds of thousands after that keeping this piece of garbage in the penal system for the rest of his days and for what? So that in the end we can tell the families of all these victims that not one of these women were killed involving any kind of premeditated planning? I must be stupid.

Posted December 10, 2007 07:07 AM

Justice was NOT served even though Pickton was convicted.
To not view his crime as 1st degree murder is a disgrace, and an indication of just how screwed up our justice system really is here in Canada.
6 victims all killed at the same place by similar methods,by the same lowlife!
Tell me that isn't 1st degree murder!
Tell me it wasn't pre-meditated!
I cannot understand what was in this jury's mass mind and I am ashamed of them.
Seems anyone can kill a human being now and our courts treat it like it was a minor offense.
Those girls deserved much better!
And, I cannot shake the feeling that Pickton did not always act alone.
Somebody else saw, and somebody else knew what was going on.
It would be almost impossible for there not to be with that many victims,and the VPD and the RCMP have not finished the job.
To think otherwise would be to stick our heads back in the sand and take the easy way out...as usual!

Posted December 10, 2007 07:03 AM

Once again the Canadian justice system has shown itself to be a joke. This man may have killed over 50 women yet he could be out on parole in five years. What is that? If ever there was a case for the death penalty this is it! At the very least, he should be placed in solitary confinement until the day someone finds his rotting flesh on the floor of his cell. In the US he would get 6 life sentences and only be eligible for parole in 150 years. In China they would put a bullet in his ear. Not in Canada! We have to prove how civilized we are by showing the world that we are not vengeful. Air India, Carla Homolka and now Robert William Picton. Its sad!

Posted December 10, 2007 06:55 AM

Yes indeed, it may be a disappointment for many. But then what do you expect when you have Murderers like, Bush that have killed into the millions and will never see the inside of a court room, much less ever serving time for what he has done.

Posted December 10, 2007 06:25 AM

The IQ level of the jury is in serious question. With human body parts all over the mans property and that fact that there are many victims rather than just one makes a second degree murder charge ludicrous. One victim could be a crime of the moment, six or more victims screams out premeditation.

Posted December 10, 2007 06:22 AM

The justice system sucks bigtime!!!!! This piece of scum murders
6 women and gets convicted of only 2nd degree murder.He should be sent down to Texas where they know how to depense justice for persons such as Pickton,execution by lethal injection.The Canadian justice system needs a major overhaul so animals such as Pickton are locked away forever with no chance of parole.

Posted December 10, 2007 06:18 AM

I don't quite understand how the jury came up with 2nd degree in this case - if he did it, like they convicted him in all 6 charges then it seems clearly premeditated and as heinous as it gets. If the jury had their doubts they should not be compensating in their verdict, they should be declaring not guilty (which obviously only the jury has the authority to decide).

Either way, it is unfortunate that the families and friends of victims are turning to the courtroom to deal with their emotions - tying their emotional state to something out of their control will assuredly lead to dissapointment.

Posted December 10, 2007 06:17 AM

Looks to me like the jury must figure anybody hooked on booze or drugs is not entirely a human being and thusfirsty degree murder can not be used

Posted December 10, 2007 06:12 AM

Throughout this trial, I have felt so nervous about the traumatic impact that a 'not guilty' verdict would have had on the families and friends of the women who Pickton killed. I am pleased, for their sake, that the prosecution has shown themselves to be competent, careful and trustworthy. I am, however, disappointed in the CBC today. You have failed to serve justice by reducing a lengthy and unimaginably complex process to the simple yes-or-no question, was justice served? It was the jury's task to decide what justice meant in this case. They were guided by the judge, assisted by defense and prosecution lawyers, and informed by countless witnesses and pieces of evidence. Was justice served? What kind of opinions can anyone who wasn't privy to the trial have on this question?

Posted December 10, 2007 06:01 AM

I can still very clearly remember the day I first heard about the murders. As I was filling up with gas at the Super Store in Kelowna (where I lived for 18 years), I was at first sick at the thought and then terribly sad for the women that have to be a position to be as vulnerable as that.

There's not much more in the world that is as horrifying as what Picton (Pigton) did to a living human body- not once but more than we will ever know.

I am using the most cliche of words but a word of such disgust, fright, horror, sadness haven't been invented to describe any of this.

The jury did well.

I feel some peace, but what is the state of our country in that we can't do more to help those at the bottom of their lives?

We are Canadian. Think about it.

Rest in Peace Dearest Ladies.

Respectfully yours,
Imbi Meere

Posted December 10, 2007 05:45 AM

I believe the jury made a very sound and intelligent decision. By find him guility of six counts of second degree murder, there are two very important consequences. First, the fact that there were six counts means that he will be in jail for the rest of his life... the same result as six counts of first degree murder. Secondly, and so important, the options for an appeal are severely limited. If they had decided it was first degree murder, any evidence that somebody else had been involved with, helped to perpetrate, or assist in planning the murders, would leave the whole thing wide open for appeal. This way, that kind of evidence would not matter.

Well done, jurors. You made an excellent intelligent decision in the midst of what must have been a very emotional time.

To the families of the victims, my condolences. May you finally have some peace.

Posted December 10, 2007 04:53 AM

Second degree murder, six times?

Please.

Further, does this mean that Pickton will get time to put his things in order before he begins his jail time, like Black?

Sadly, it is a flawed system, but it seems to be the best one we have.

Posted December 10, 2007 01:48 AM

It's unfortunate that this person was not found of First Degree murder. It would be nice to say that ya, he did it, and we have a witness that saw him do it. But no witness of that type was found.

How would it be if YOU were the defendant. Let's say you killed someone while driving drunk. Let's say you go through the trial and even though no one actually saw you drinking (let's say at home), the jury comes back and says "First Degree!!". You get life in prison with no chance of parole. Was that a fitting judgement for your crime?

The lack of understanding of how the legal system in this country works is astounding. Everyone seems to think that if that's how it's done in the US, then that must be how it's done in Canada. Not even close!!

The jury doesn't decide his sentence. His sentence is LIFE!!! Period, end of story. It's up to the judge to decide how long before he can get parole. Chances are, and it's a pretty good chance, it will be the max of 25 years. That will make him in his early 80's. And just for the record, in the US...if a person is conviced of 6 murders and gets 6 consecutive sentences, they are still elegible for parole after a set date, that the judge decides at sentencing. So just cause he might get consecutive sentences, doesn't mean that he couldn't get out after 10 years anyway.

Just about everyone who has written on here, has had a very simplistic approach and answer to the problem. I would strongly suggest, that it be manditory for every citizen of this country to attend a Law Day presentation. And if you don't show up on your day, maybe you should get Life!!

Posted December 10, 2007 01:35 AM

It's called the criminal justice system for a reason. The criminals get all the justice.
We can wait to see now if we get to fund an appeal.
I hope Vancouvers' finest, along with their head man, that ignored the disappearance of these unfortunate victims sleep well knowing that their indolence was a contributory factor in this matter.
We have, indeed, witnessed profiling.

Posted December 10, 2007 12:15 AM

Well, as far as the law in Canada permits, I suppose justice has been served. For the six cases in question.

A series of first-degree murder convictions would have been more satisfying, but the way the legal system is set up, a single pedantic individual on a jury can alter the result greatly.

So now we can all sleep sound, since Canada's worst mass murderer is now behind bars, with no possibility of parole for at least... hmmm... lemme see... he was arrested in early 2002... does time in custody awaiting a sentence count double towards reaching the parole date? If so, does that mean he already has 11 years credit?

I am fairly sure he will never see the light of day again, but what this country truly needs is guts. Why can we not just sentence someone to life, and that's it? It would be nice for the families of the 61 missing women to KNOW that the prime suspect is inside for life, forced to watch basic cable while Clifford Olson tries to steal his popcorn.

Too bad this was not Texas. Willie would fry for sure, and probably with numerous "malfunctions" that would cause the switch to have to be thrown at least a half dozen times.

But we are in Canada, land of the "we are probably more or less free", and the home of the "I think if we set up a committee, we could decide, if we absolutely have to, to be brave". Why don't we just take the blasted maple leaf off the flag and put a waffle on it instead? I think it represents Canada better, and you can even put maple syrup on it!

Prime Minister Harper, you say you are tough on crime, prove it! Change the laws so we can fry this son of a b----.

Posted December 10, 2007 12:12 AM

I don't know if justice has been served but I do think it is the best verdict that can come out by the jury. Let us not to forget our justice system.(It is here, whether you like it or not!) There are no solid links or proofs that he is the killer. However, the victim's remains were found on his property. In some degree, he is somehow reponsible for their deaths. For that, I applaud the jury for their enduring sessions to come to this verdict. I am glad that this person is put away from the society.(hopefully forever) If police can find others who are involved & put them away, then I can have sweet dreams night after night.

Posted December 9, 2007 11:52 PM

For all those calling for the death penalty, I think it's better he rot in jail for years, slowly deteriorating than to give him a quick and mostly painless way out.

Posted December 9, 2007 11:50 PM

This is no justice. It is lazy justice.
Iam new to this country but each new verdict and case I came accross does not instill a confidence in me (about the justice system)

Posted December 9, 2007 11:36 PM

I believe that Pickton wasn't the only one involved in these womens' murders. At the very least, his brother or a close friend of his must have known what was going on. It is despicable what has happenned and horrible that no one has spoken up about his or her knowledge in the murders of these women. It deeply saddens me that these women aren't given justice for what has happenned to them. I think in this case, Canada's justice system should make an exception on capital punishment-eye for an eye.

Posted December 9, 2007 11:33 PM

It doesn't take a high-powered crown lawyer for the jury to deduce by themselves that 2+2=4 (or rather, in this case 3+3=6). Common sense, not any argument the crown would have made to the jury, says that even if he killed one without premeditation (which I doubt, but that is beside the point), there's no way the other five were killed without premeditation

Posted December 9, 2007 11:26 PM

David from Toronto:

Are you an imbecile? Certainly the jury was, or at least they didn't seem to have the definitions of the different kinds of murder available. I can understand the first one (chronologically) not being premeditated, but how can a sane person say that the other five were not. It's not like he invited them over for a rendezvous, and then in the heat of passion decided to kill them and feed them to the pigs. If that were the case, the defense would have had a strong case for having him plead not guilty by reason of mental defect, but they didn't. The alleged involvement of an accomplice or two is not (or should not be) relevant to the kind of murder that he is convicted of.

Posted December 9, 2007 11:21 PM

I think the verdict is indicative of Canada's justice system. I do not think the sentence is just. It is absolutely sickening that the Canadian tax payer is paying for this trial defending a animal.

Posted December 9, 2007 11:21 PM

Justice will be served provided the Judge has the moral courage to sentence Picton to 25 years before parole on each charge. Families of these victims are already doing life.

Posted December 9, 2007 11:18 PM

There is no justice in Canada. The worst serial killer in Canada's history convicted of mere second degree murder? This is pathetic. And the self-righteous liberals will still think Canada's justice system is superior because it abolished the death penalty. We give monsters a slap on the wrist, and hope they don't do it again. Boy, Canadians are so superior to the Americans. We know that criminals are just suffering from low self esteem. This is a pathetic nation, with no justice at all for victims. Our judges should be doing hard time.

Posted December 9, 2007 11:04 PM

Justice has been only partially served. These multiple, deliberate, brutal and clearly premeditated killings deserve a first degree murder sentence for all primary "executioners" and second degree murder sentences for anyone who knowingly assisted.

Not only are the above noted sentences deserved and indeed earned, they are needed to send the clear public message that needs to be sent in relation to how serious these kind of crimes are regarded in Canada.

Posted December 9, 2007 10:59 PM

The sad thing about the trials in the deaths of these 6 women is that it was needed at all. Vancouver police spent almost a decade denying even the possibility that there was a serial killer running around the Vancouver east side -- even to the point of running one of their own out of town for suggesting that it was true. The only thing that goaded the Vancouver police into action was a 60-minutes story that declared Vancouver 'the best place to be a serial killer'.

It shouldn't take that kind of shame to make the Vancouver region's police services do their jobs.

Had these women gone missing from Shaugnessy or Point Grey, Picton would have been arrested long before these 6 women had died. It is that determined inaction over the deaths of the poor which leaves me thinking that, what little justice was done to day was far too late for these 6 women and their families.

Posted December 9, 2007 10:54 PM

does his sentencing include time already served? he has been in custody since 2002. I Thin the court system is a total joke like every other case they have gotten out on "good behaviour" What a joke....

Posted December 9, 2007 10:49 PM

If Canadians call that justice than I guess justice has been served. Ten years for killing six people and feeding them to pigs is a joke and a disgrace to the CANADIAN people. I am surprised there isn't more crime in Canada because of our lax justice system.

Posted December 9, 2007 10:17 PM

I have to trust that this was a fair and just conviction, although I cannot help but to think that perhaps the first one or two murders were not planned and deliberate (things like this sometimes happen as accidents at first), but that after the initial killings Mr. Picton got a taste for it and then did plan to commit the subsequent killings. Prison is where he belongs (I have no doubt of his guilt), but nothing can or will ever disolve the tremendous horror that these young women went through.

Posted December 9, 2007 10:11 PM

A first degree murder sentence carries an automatic life sentence with no chance for parole for 25 years - with the exception of the weak willed political decision to include the infamous "faint hope clause" which permits for a jury review of a 1st degree sentence after 15 years (thank you Liberals). Pickton was convicted of of six counts of 2nd degree murder which carries an automatic life sentence with no eligibility for parole for a minimum 10 years. In a case such as this a jury may recommend to the presiding judge parole eligibility anywhere between 10-25 years. In this case however the jury has declined to make a recommenation, which is interesting in itself, and will leave it to the judge. This case cost the taxpayer $116 million including payment to defense counsels and after 4 years of disclosure and legal arguments around admissibility of evidence the defense amounted to: "Don't trust the witnesses and Pickton is not a smart man" - unbelievable. Ten officers alone on the most expensive case in history were devoted exclusively to disclose evidence to the defense. We are entering an era where legalistic wrangling and obfuscations are threatening to prevent the prosecutions of major cases as they collapse under their procedural weight - the Basi and Virk conflict of interest case will probably illustrate this very phenomenon as it drags into its 4th year of pre-trial arguments. The next test for the justice system is the Pickton sentencing. I am unable to recall an example anytime in BC where a maximum sentence has been applied in any case except in an instance of 1st degree murder where the sentence is mandatory under the Criminal Code. Could anyone imagine a worse case scenario where the full 25 year sentence should be applied? We'll see....

Posted December 9, 2007 09:56 PM

It is hard to imagine the burden placed on 12 people selected to be jurors and asked to in deal with the horrendous facts and weight of expectation this case has involved. That they took 9 days to reach a verdict suggests that there was some intense deliberation in the jury room.
It must be assumed that these 12 people are quite reasonable Canadian men and women who have now returned verdicts finding Picton guilty of 2nd degree murder. Those people who get lathered up at times like this and start calling for the death sentence seem to ignore the obvious fact a jury unable to return 1st degree convictions without the death sentence attached would be most unlikely to be overcome with a bloodlust should death have been a possible outcome of a 1st degree conviction.
It would seem that in Canada it would, thankfully, be difficult to find 12 people willing to convict almost anyone if death were an option on the sentencing slate.

Posted December 9, 2007 09:48 PM

Carl Copithorne, don't you DARE bring Mumia Abu-Jamal into this. He is a cop-killer (not a political prisoner as you so erroneously stated) and deserves all the punishment he gets. He was also a member of the Black Panthers, which is virulently racist towards whites and has targeted dozens of police officers to be murdered. Mumia is guilty as sin.

Posted December 9, 2007 08:50 PM

Question:

When a police officer is killed is there ever a first degree murder
charge or second degree? We all know the answer is a special answer.

On the other hand, if a prositute or similar 'sex-trade worker' is killed.... who cares besides the victim's family? This a class-related court case and it meets out as predicted because our laws are not tough enough; nor are they administered quickly.

As far as 1st degree murder and the so-called 'death penalty' are concerned... well there is no penalty in death. Dead is dead. There may be some deterent to other would be killers, but what off the completely innocent who are sentenced to death or even harsh sentences on the first and only go around the system?

What we really need are judges with the tools (laws) to put some types of people (especially serial type repeat killers; mentally deranged types; rapists; pedophiles; people with damaged frontal lobes and the like... away.... for a REAL life sentence. NO parole; no getting off in 5 or 10 years where the chance to commit a crime against society again is self-evident.

In such cases, they would be kept in jail with NO rights until they die. That's justice and in fact, it may be worse than any death sentence via 'capital punishment'.

In my opinion, the real killers (more than one likely)of these women whom Picton is accused of killing or being an accessory to killing, are still walking around free and probably doing more of their evil work.

Posted December 9, 2007 08:48 PM

Justice served? - No I think not, for he will not get the puishment due. There ought to be a special punishment reserved for those who are as rotted to the core as Pickton. There used to be, but it was removed from the statute books. Who in all honesty would want to share the same planet with the stench of someone like this?

Posted December 9, 2007 08:45 PM

Yes, justice has been served - in this particular instance.

The important thing now is to push for the change in attitudes and laws that will make prostitutes and drug users less vulnerable.

Posted December 9, 2007 08:41 PM

NO, that guy should have been hung on the rope. Why did we ever take away the rope it would have been nice to see him hanging!

Posted December 9, 2007 08:40 PM

To Ian of Langley. Ric of Toronto et al -
Truth first; think about it.

To a dismayingly large proportion of the rest of you folks -
This jury found reasonable doubt that Picton actually committed or planned any of these murders. If you consider the evidence presented, you will no doubt rise to the same conclusion. The jury did find that with the evidence presented, Picton was at the very least and without any doubt, deeply involved in the victims deaths. That is no less than any honest and truth seeking person could make of this. And that is what 12 people very much like you, decided.

To the "let's git a rope and hang 'im" group,
Count to ten, breathe deeply, cool down and try to remember Steven Truscott, David Milgaard etc.

Posted December 9, 2007 08:25 PM

Has justice been served? Maybe so. It's hard to understand how multiple murders can be anything but planned and deliberate. It seems to me he should have been convicted of first degree murder by the jury. I am sure this incongruity between the evidence and the verdict, coupled with the error made by the judge in his charge to the jury, will afford a ground of appeal against the conviction. I suspect it will be many years before the appeals are concluded, even if the Crown does not proceed with the other 20 counts.

But ultimately I think that no legal result in this case will ever achieve justice on its own. Justice will only be served if people generally and governments in particular bring about changes in the social conditions in our community which resulted in these tragic murders. I for one would like to see the kind of government resources expended that have been expended in the investigation and prosecution of Pickton applied in improving social conditions on the downtown eastside. Imagine what might happen if governments spent $00 million plus dollars on drug treatment, proper housing, childcare, employment and training programs.

Posted December 9, 2007 08:15 PM

Numerous people are confusing "concurrent" and "consecutive" in their posts. "Consecutive" means one after the other, one life sentence followed by another life sentence, etc. "Concurrent" means all sentences being served at the same time.

The Senate block the allowance of "consecutive" sentences.

I do not believe consecutive sentences should be the norm, but I would like to see judges given the leeway to apply them in certain circumstances. For example, when a jury brings in a verdict like this, it would be nice if the judge could order consecutive sentences.

The way it is, we can look forward to Pickton returning to the spotlight again in a few years, just like certain other notorious killers, to "enjoy" some press. And then in a few years, yet again. Yes, it's unlikely he'll ever be freed, but why do we need to give guys like this a platform to mock the judicial system?

Posted December 9, 2007 08:11 PM

It's very difficult to know what the jury had to deal with during their deliberations. I applaud them, and trust they reached their verdict by following the judge's directions, taking into account the evidence (of which I have little knowledge), as well as following the justice system. How else could someone be found guilty of six separate murders, which by definition is a serial murderer, and not be convicted of 1st degree murder?

Posted December 9, 2007 08:06 PM

No, I think the jury made an error. Picton obviously planned all he did carefully. It was years before he was considered a suspect !They should have considered the consequences of thier findings. Maybe parolled in 10-25 yrs ? Is this a punishment or are they considering that he may be rehabilitated in that time? If fareness is seen it will be the Judge pronouncing that the sentences will run consecutively ie 60-150 yrs.

Posted December 9, 2007 08:02 PM

Justice has been served.

The crown had a case to meet. They met it for second degree murder and not first. I am certain the crown's efforts were to the best of their abilities. The truth is there was insufficient evidence to meet the evidentiary standard for first degree murder.

It is not fair for people who have not spent 10 months hearing the evidence to question the jury. Further, Picton is facing 6 life sentences and almost certainly an application for dangerous offender status. It is incorrect, if not ignorant, to assume that just because he is temporally eligible for parole that he is it entitled to it. I share people's disgust for his crimes. However, it is irresponsible to dictate justice from one's armchair on the basis of news reports and a whim.

Posted December 9, 2007 08:02 PM

I believe that the verdict of guilty of Second Degree murder is the wrong one. He should have been found guilty of First Degree Murder because all the murders were premeditated. As it is he will probably be able to apply for bail within 10 years. He should be sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole, just like Olsen.

Posted December 9, 2007 08:01 PM

I don't understand why there is no mention of the fact that many of the women that he killed were aboriginal. It seems like that fact is being sweeped under the rug and no one wants to acknowledge the simple fact that aboriginal women are seen as less important than white women, in death and in life.

Posted December 9, 2007 07:58 PM

There is no justice served - Canada does their criminal trials done by a jury than a judge. So they don't know all the facts. He could get parole in 10 yrs. Capital punishment is the only justice here. There is too much freedom in Canada even for the worse offender in the world.

Posted December 9, 2007 07:56 PM

This discussion, so far, is an very heated, emotional one. The one issue not discussed is the possibility (however improbable) of a "wrongful conviction", which has happened to far too many people in the hands of the justice system.

Take the case of David Milgaard, who was found guilty of murder in the death of Gail Miller, and sentenced to life imprisonment. The jury found Milgaard guilty based on the evidence, and the judge gave the sentence. What if those very sentiments of "death penalty" had been in force at the time of sentencing, and Milgaard had been executed for what was then considered such a "horrific" act against an innocent person? Fortunately, he did live, and was,
eventually able to prove his innocence to the charge (and even get compensation), but the damage was done...by the justice system.

That's why I like the present system in Canada, with no death penalty, as this prevents the horrific situation of a person wrongfully convicted for a murder to be given a chance to prove his innocence, but also keeps those who are guilty under law from harming others (in the "dangerous offender" status).

It's not a question of whether or not justice has been "done", but whether or not justice will pass the test of time, both for the innocent, and for the guilty, not as the original verdict and sentence, but as the evidence over time. Even Truscott was recently told that the justice system failed him back in 1959.

After all, we are humans, even as Canadians, and humans are not perfect--even those in the justice system.

Posted December 9, 2007 07:52 PM

I think justice has been surved to some extent. Yes he is without a doubt guilty, but he had better spend the rest of his life in jail. If that happens then justice will be served.

Posted December 9, 2007 07:48 PM

As is usual with our Canadian Justice system; The RCMP was unprepared & unfocussed, the prosecution again defered & the defence will likely curtail further charges.
Mr Robert Picton will likely be out on the streets in just 10 more Christmasses - God rest ye merry Gentlepersons.

Posted December 9, 2007 07:46 PM

The Canadian Criminal Justice System is a complete joke. It appears that we are not capable as a society to properly punish our murderous monsters like Pickton. When will this country get a backbone and ammend the criminal code to include consecutive sentences or the death penalty??? We continue to demonstrate to the world that we are a weak, pathetic country. It is times like this when I'm ashamed to be a Canadian.

Posted December 9, 2007 07:28 PM

I believe William Robert Pickton got what he deserved it would have been nice for a first degree charge but I believe the Jury did there best in the trial at least we as Canadians know that Pickton wont be seeing outside streets possibly the rest of his life. My heart goes out to the families who have lost there loved ones to this man take comfort that this man is behind bars forever.

Posted December 9, 2007 07:27 PM

I feel for the jurors, who obviously took their job very seriously under difficult circumstances.
I feel for the families, who would have liked to have seen first degree murder verdicts for these victims.
It's very common in the US that jurors will speak out after a verdict, I'm guessing that's not the case in Canada? I can only speculate that the jurors beleived he was guilty, but did not act alone. It seems incredible that this particular individual committed 6 murders, let alone 26 (possibly) without someone else being actively involved. Is the investigation continuing? I hope so.

Posted December 9, 2007 07:03 PM

One life should equal one life sentence. I just hope the families are happy about his sentence and find closure , so we can move on with the trial of the other 20 women so their families can feel the same way.

Posted December 9, 2007 06:57 PM

This is probably the best they could get. He killed so many and they picked the six best cases to try first. Weaker cases were put on hold.

The trial was long. The instructions to the jury took 4 days. The judge had to clarify some of the instructions as the jury appeared to be having trouble even agreeing on element three of the decision process.

Element one was whether the death was unlawful; element 2 was whether it took place at the date and place stated; element 3 was the identity of the killer; element 4 was that he had the intent to kill; and element 5 was the death was planned and deliberate.

Originally the jusge said "If you find that Mr. Pickton shot Ms. Abotsway, you should find that the Crown has proven this element [No. 3]. On the other hand, if you have a reasonable doubt about whether or not he shot her, you must return a verdict of not guilty on the charge of murdering her."

He had to add "or was otherwise an active participant in her killing," as the crown didn't really have any hard evidence that he did it. They did have one witness that saw him with a body - that's it.

Without this clarification I think the jury was having are hard time even agreeing on manslaughter.

Posted December 9, 2007 06:54 PM

Murder is the unlawfl, intentional killing of another person (without provocation). The difference between first-degree and second-degree murder involves the element of premeditation, not intent. First-degree murder is intentional murder with premeditation. Second-degree murder is intentional murder without pre-meditation. It is, indeed, possible to kill several times without pre-planning each murder. As someone pointed out on another new site, you can use the bathroom 100 times this week but that doesn't mean you planned in advance when you would use it, which bathroom, or how. The intention to use the bathroom is there, but it is formed on an instant, not in advance.

Posted December 9, 2007 06:48 PM

Based on some of the comments below, I wonder if there is some confusion with the term CONCURRENT SENTENCE. For concurrent sentences, all sentences are served at the same time, with the time of imprisonment being that of the longest sentence. Whereas for consecutive sentences, the time of imprisonment is the SUM of the sentences.

Therefore, I would expect people to want consecutive sentencing, which would be longer, in a case like this one.

Posted December 9, 2007 06:40 PM

I feel relieved for the famlies of the 6 women whose killer was convicted today. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't understand why he wasn't convicted of first degree murder. But after listening to Wally Oppel today, I'm sure that it won't be in the "public's best interest" to try him again for the remaining 20 (plus) victims. In other words, it will be too expensive for the taxpayer (read 'the government'). We'd rather spend the money on something that shines a brighter light on BC, like..oh I dunno..the Olympics?

Posted December 9, 2007 05:47 PM

By the way, I should have written "we" in the line about "needing the death penalty" in quotation marks. The capitalist state does not represent me.

Posted December 9, 2007 05:43 PM

After the judges second set of instuctions to the jury, it would seem that the jury might not have believed that willy did the murders; but rather he may have had knowledge of something going on, therefore second degree. What if there are other killers still out there.

Posted December 9, 2007 05:40 PM

I agree he is GUILTY. But not to second degree murder. FIRST DEGREE MURDER, yes.

And for this he should receive the DEATH PENALTY.

Why waste more time and money on the other twenty or so murders. He is guilty

Posted December 9, 2007 05:37 PM

Great verdit but whatever took them so log.

Posted December 9, 2007 05:37 PM

I feel justice was served. A second degree convicton on all counts appears the best and right verdict given all the known facts. A first degree conviction could easily been appealed. The jury did an excellent job and have served the publice well. We owe them all a debt of gratitude for the personal sacrifices they {and their families} have made to see it through. My heart goes out to the families of all the victims in these crimes.

Posted December 9, 2007 05:34 PM

I am fairly surprised that we’re being asked by the CBC to give our opinions on this verdict and if justice has been done. What are we supposed to base our opinions on? Media coverage? Something tells me that an adversarial process lasting over 10 months within the justice system can achieve a far better conception of justice and fairness than a natural law-vigilante-style of justice based solely upon exposure to selective media coverage of the trial. In my view, the CBC has not been responsible with this story, mabye the real question is if there should have been a media ban on the trial to prevent this circus?

Posted December 9, 2007 05:30 PM

I want to say that I am very happy for the families of the victims, though a conviction of first-degree murder did not come about. The main thing is that there has been some recognition that these women were human and that they did have a right to live.
Now, I would also like to say that I am appalled that people on this website are talking about how we need the death penalty. It is poor people and minorities like these women who go to death row, not propertied white people like Pickton! You defame the memory of these women by advocating the death penalty! Look at the case of Mumia Abu-Jamal, a black political prisoner on death row in the States and then tell me that the death penalty is about anything other than class and race oppression! It is noteworthy that none of the victim's families seem to be mentioning the reinstatement of capital punishment in this country or are even seem vengeful, and if anyone should feel that way it should be them! They seem just happy their loved ones have been acknowledged!
Finally, I would like point out that good though this conviction is, it is not just one person who is the problem here. The fact that these women had to be prostitutes at all, probably would still be prostitutes if they were alive and that millions over the planet have to make a living this way is an even greater crime than anything Pickton has done! Where are the cries for justice for all capitalism's victims?

Posted December 9, 2007 05:10 PM

What would happen to Willie if his crimes were committed here in China? OOOoo, is Willie ever lucky he's Canadian. Too lucky, I think. Our justice system has too many 'humane' flaws to be considered real justice. Parents, siblings,other relatives and friends of victims are entitled to justice too. They're not getting it here. In a ridiculous scenario, Willie could get only ten years, and be credited with the five he's been in custody. That could mean that he'd be eligible for parole in five years. How about that poor Saskatchewan farmer who eased his severely handicapped daughter's excrutiating pain and suffering and serves three times the penalty Willie might face despite the massive support the farmer got from Canadians from coast to coast. Justice System, lend us your ears before Willie chops them off.

Posted December 9, 2007 04:53 PM

I wonder what it would take in this country to get a successful 1st degree murder charge?

If killing 6 different women at 6 different times with slightly different methods and styles isn't 1st degree murder, then lets take it off the books.

If it is an impossible charge to prosecute get rid of it. Then the victims and their families won't feel so bad as if the murderer was somehow let off the hook. Yea, the hook he wouldn't let his victims off of.

Legally, it probably doesn't make much difference to Pickton but I do feel bad the victim's families.

If the difference between 1st and 2nd degree is premeditation, did he do this impromptu act 6 times?

There is nothing infallible about 12 people making a decision. Many times they have made the wrong one. Somehow I get the feeling they did once again.

Posted December 9, 2007 04:50 PM

It is better than a "not guilty"; without the benefit of hearing the evidence or being in the jury room, one still has to wonder how you could imagine multiple 2nd degree killings; one maybe. But to have him bringing women to his property then killing them as an afterthought, time and time again is hard to understand.

Let's hope he doesn't get parole eligibility.

Posted December 9, 2007 04:42 PM

I think justice has not been served. Had the life-style of the victims in this tragedy been of a more virtuous nature the verdict might have been more severe. I suspect one or more of the jurors exercised moral judgement on the victims rather than the killer.

Posted December 9, 2007 04:37 PM

"Has justice been served?"

What justice is there?

There will be a lengthy appeal process for the trial of 6, then the trial of the remaining 20, and then the appeal of the trial of 20. By the time trial and sentencing is done Pickton will have "served" maybe 5 years. He will be an old man, maybe in his 60's.

So the taxpayers lose, the families lose because it doesn't bring the victims back, and Pickton will not get the mental help he needs nor serve any meaningful amount of time because of his age.

What a grand fiasco.

Posted December 9, 2007 04:36 PM

At the time of sentencing, can the judge recommend that 'Dangerous Offender' be pursued?

Posted December 9, 2007 04:11 PM

Justice Served !! hope that willy picton is ready for his worst nightmares to become a reality he will be sent too one of our canaidian penatenteries an like the old school saying gos what gos around comes around, and as his fate is concerned i hope he is made too suffer long an very very slow neverending torment an pain,(HE IS NOW A TARGET 24/7) when i think about how he might have killed my three freinds, Georgina Papin , Sarah De Vrise ,an my dear childhood sweetheart ( Andrea Borhaven ) all whos remains where found on that godforsaken hell on earth the picton farm,when i think bout how they died an who was envolved my heart breaks an the anger and tears start ,i pray that the police round up the others involved in those sad an tragic deathsan i hope that society comes together with the victems famlies / freinds . fight too make changes too help street kids get off the street !.

Posted December 9, 2007 04:08 PM

kudos to the jurors. they had a hard line to walk and i think they did a good job. good verdict in keeping with the evidence, the rule of law and the principles of justice.

Posted December 9, 2007 04:08 PM

Justice will not be served as long as women have to sell their bodies in order to survive, and as long as aboriginal women are still regarded as expendable human beings. The media coverage of this trial completely lacks a historical and social context as to how Pickton and his accomplices could get away with the mass murder of women from the Downtown Eastside for the past twenty years. Although Pickton will be pinned for the murders, our economic system that allows for the trafficking of women is also responsible for these murders.

Posted December 9, 2007 04:06 PM

2nd degree murder???
As I understand it, it's first degree murder if someone planned the murder. 2nd degree if it wasn't.
How on earth can 6 murders be unplanned? One might argue that the first one was not planned, maybe even the second one, but after that there can be "NO REASONABLE DOUBT"(the legal stipulation) that the murders were not planned!

Posted December 9, 2007 04:05 PM

Why has this man with the preponderance of evidence found on his property
only receiving second degree murder charges? I think this verdict is appalling.
In other countries he would have been hung for one of those charges. Either
we have lawyers too clever at getting their client off, or our judicial system is
sadly lacking in reality and failing where it should succeed. I am shocked
and dismayed at this news. I personally don't know any of the families of
those murdered but when you look at it from their point of view, that daughter
can never be spoken to, held with love or wished a good day EVER AGAIN.
Shame on you, Canadian courts!

Posted December 9, 2007 04:02 PM

Canada needs CONCURRENT sentencing so that lowlife scumbags like Pickton never again see the light of day outside the prison walls. The fact he is eligible for parole after 10 years is disgusting.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:54 PM

I do think that justice has been served for the six women murdered. On the other hand, it is very hard for justice to be served for the friends and family, or the general public because the media doesn't have time to give really clear explanations of legal terms and practice.

For example, most of the public and probably friends and family won't be aware that our Criminal Code starts its discussion of killing with "Culpable homicide" or killing that is illegal -- murder, manslaughter, and infanticide are all considered culpable homicide.
Then the Code defines murder in the first degree as 'planned and deliberate". "Planned and deliberate" have specific legal meanings -- It may be that with all the defence suggestions of Pickton's 'weak-mindedness', the jury felt Pickton lacked the brain-ability to plan or make deliberate ahead-of-time plans, even though when he got some women to his farm he intended to kill them. It seems like splitting hairs, but legally there is a difference. The other point is that Second degree murder is defined in the Criminal Code in this way "All murder that is not first degree murder is second degree murder". So, first degree and second degee murder are both equally murder; the differences are in the state of mind of the murderer or in the connection of several people in carrying out murders. Pickton will receive an automatic life sentence for murder -- the only difference in puniishment is that he might be able to APPLY for parole earlier than if he had been convicted of first degree. But the chances of the parole board allowing him parole remain, I believe, extremely thin. So the public should know that Robert Pickton will be punished as a murderer -- and that's as it should be.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:45 PM

Guilty of murder on all six charges and not premeditated? That's hard to believe. But guilty he is. Justice in my mind will not have been served until he has faced all of the charges that have been filed against him.

Was there something symbolic about the arrangement of the candles by the families of the victims in the ceremony in front of the courthouse?.... it looked like 6 candles,representing todays verdict,were placed outside a heart-shape, representing the other 20 women he has been charged with killing. This suggests to me that the victims families and friends don't think justice has yet been served either.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:43 PM

I am very disappointed in the verdict. They should just execute or even better torture him inch by inch like he did to those poor women.

This would safe millions of tax payer money and time better spent elsewhere for many people. This thing is a monster and should be treated like one.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:36 PM

We can't second guess the jury. Justice has been served.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:28 PM

having not heard all the evidence , i think 2nd degree is the best that could be done in canada. he should be classified as a dangerous offender, and spend the rest of his life in jail..unfortunately thats too good for him..

Posted December 9, 2007 03:28 PM

Mr Opal's statements notwithstanding,there is no reason that the public should have any confidence that robert pickton will be spending the rest of his life in prison. Past events have shown that the parole board will release inmates convicted of violent crimes well within the limits of their sentences. misplaced compassion and the passage of time have in the past allowed monsters to once again walk amongst us.Mr Opal said that it was not logical to give a person more than one life sentence because that person had only one life to serve it. the simple fact is that murderers get out, they have been known to kill again and in cases like robert pickton it seems obvious to me that concurrent sentencing would garantee that we wouldn't be dealing with them again.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:23 PM

Following the first murder Picton had to have known that the possibility of the same fate awaited any other women he brought to the farm. He continued to seek out women to bring home fully knowing that they would probably never leave alive. Just the fact that he endangered their lives by bringing them to the farm (whether he alone committed the murders or not) makes him guilty of premeditation. All of his futher charges should be held in court if only to strengthen the case against him and quash any possiblity of parole in future years. The families of the other twenty victims deserve to know that justice has been served in the deaths of their loved ones as well. If he killed twenty six people, make him stand trial on all twenty six murders. To not take the other charges to court only sends the message that if a person wants to dispose of one person, they might as well dispose of all the people who they feel has wronged them, because they will only serve the time for one anyways. The cost of the trial should not even enter into a case of this magnitude.
This case has affected not only the families of the victims, but the jury as well whom I'm sure will have nightmares for the rest of their lives after spending a year being subjected to horrors beyond anyones imagination.
I pray that the families can have some piece of mind knowing that this monster is behind bars and finally have some closure.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:22 PM

Yes, Canadian-style justice has been served on Willie Pickton. He will be given a "life" sentence that amounts to less than one year of his life for each victim's life. He will eat, sleep, watch TV and movies, read, talk to people, laugh, make pronouncements and do interviews on occasion, perhaps write a book, take courses, make friends, get married and have conjugal visits (like Bernardo), maybe have kids, write and receive letters, have no financial or work pressures, and will - despite Wally Oppal's opinion - see the light of day every day he chooses to look outside. His victims? Not so much.

Is it any wonder why war criminals and other low-lifes from around the world come to Canada for refuge? If Willy is convicted of all 26 (of maybe 49) murders, he'll serve less than one year per victim, as we always make sure the sentences are concurrent, not consecutive as in the U.S. In Canada, murder is cheaper by the dozen. Oh well, our politicians can rest assured they have not broken the commandment against killing and will surely sit as key advisers in God's cabinet.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:18 PM

I'm pretty sure it was premeditated... how could the jury not find him guilty of first degree murder? Oh they better send him away for the full 25 years! Can't they deem him a dangerous offender and send him away for the rest of his life?

Posted December 9, 2007 03:12 PM

Justice is not about equivalence between the fate of the victims and that of the defendant.

The families of the victims talk of "closure" - but we still have no real idea of what happened on that farm, and people who probably do know were not compelled to testify.

If I had been on the jury, I would have convicted Pickton. But it is not clear that he acted alone or with premeditation. The women died there and were butchered there, but did he act alone? It is seems improbable, but not only is there no direct evidence of his activities but no one has given a credible account of how this could go on for so long.

Above all it is yet another collective failure of the police services in Canada and this region. We cannot continue with the present shambolic municipal management of police services. We need a much better metropolitan system.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:08 PM

It would be nice if the media (including you, CBC) could actually explain to the general public what a second degree murder conviction means. I just watched yet another TV anchor imply that all that Robert Pickton will serve is 10 years in jail.

To reiterate what others (such as Josh) have said:

It does NOT mean he will be out of jail in ten years. It means the MINIMUM amount of time anyone who is convicted of 2nd degree murder can serve before they are ELIGIBLE for parole is 10 years. The sentencing judge has the discretion to impose a MINIMUM parole eligibility period of BETWEEN 10 and 25 years.

No matter what period of minimum parole eligibility is imposed, he will still need to be GRANTED parole. As others have indicated, I think we can safely assume that this man will not be granted parole given the nature of the crimes.

And no matter what, he will be under the supervision of the justice system for life. He has still received a life sentence. There is no "concurrent sentencing" for multiple murders. Everyone who is guilty of murder is automatically given a life sentence, but they can be paroled. And again, given that he is a multiple murderer, the odds of him (1) living past his (most likely lengthy) parole eligibility period, and (2) receiving parole, are very, very slim.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:08 PM

This is a good start, finally.
I hope this monster will be put away forever.
There had to be other involved with Picton, one way or another.

I am sure that Picton will be held accountable for the other women that he murdered.

I just hope that he will be put in with the worst of the worst in prison.
Then this monster will get his just deserts.
There is no honor amongst psychopathic killers.

If the victims of this trial had been in any other profession, I think Picton's charges would be more severe, and I am so sorry to say that.
The whole case from the beginning would have been handled much differently and with tougher punishments. I hope I am wrong about my sense and our justice system, but life's experience tells me otherwise.

My love and support goes out to the families and all the girls are always in my prayers.

Jen King

Posted December 9, 2007 03:06 PM

Has justice been served with this verdict? Yes, I think so.
Pickton will more than likely spend the rest of his life in prison.

Do we need another trial ( or trials?) I cannot see how another trial would serve the public interest. The victims' families may seek closure with another trial, but that is not the purpose of a trial. Closure for these families may be provided in some other fashion. A trial only gives Pickton respite from his jail cell and more publicity.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:05 PM

Confirmed by the justice system as a murderer on multiple counts, R.W. Pickton will, no doubt, be declared a dangerous offender and never see the light of day as a free man.
If each of the remaining twenty charges is pursued to a logical conclusion, it is likely that one or more of the charges will result in a conviction, but not one additional moment of time served. In the event there may be acquittals, which under the law do not affect Pickton's sentence, but may have the unintended consequence of corrupting the jury pool (in Pickton's favour).
Moving immediately to an full public inquiry of the circumstances surrounding the victims and the process surrounding these convictions and the extent of involvement of others would seem to represent a more worthy memorial to others whose lives have been taken or effected.
Perhaps Pickton will be more forthcoming with information about others involved in one or more of the 26 murders about which we know. Pickton is not bright and might potentially be persuaded to do so given his grim future.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:04 PM

I remember reading that Pickton made statements like this:

"I had one more planned, but that was to be the end of it."
"I got sloppy."
"I got caught because I got 'careless.'"

In the greater scheme of things, it seems as if the sick show he was running was very planned and deliberate enough.

This animal deserves life without parole.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:04 PM

He got exactly what he deserved. It's just too bad it was first degree murder. That being said, the jury should come back and recommend life with no parole for 25 years. For those worried about possible parole, he's 58 and most likely will not live to 83 in prison. He'll die in prison whether he is truly there for life or only 25 years...either way, he's dead.

Also, there are still trials for the remaining 20 women. Those will probably take a few years to proceed with, so the earliest he could be free is more likely 30 years...still dead, dead, dead.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:03 PM

I for one would not want to have been a member of that jury...the agony..yes the agony those jurors have been through...listening to witnesses testifying and the evidence......I for one don't believe the jurors could have come back with any different verdict than they did...but in the end Picton will get his just deserts....no matter if he gets parole or not after 10 or 20 years....when he dies he will then have to answer to a much higher authority than any human on this earth...God will judge him...now that will be his just deserts.

Posted December 9, 2007 03:01 PM

A few points:
*A life sentence isa life sentence. Pickton will be under the supervision of the courts until the day he dies.
*In my view, it's a little difficult to second guess the jury. They are our peers. It's easy to rant about the shortcomings of the system, but these were our peers -- people who were just as outraged by what happened as us.
*For me, the key will be the sentencing. If he gets off with life - 10, then I will ranting! But if gets life 25, then he'll be about 82 when he is eligible for parole.
*What about time already served? Normally time served before conviction -- for Pickton it's been about 5 years already -- often counts as double. So if that's the case, he's already served the equivilant of a 10 year "normal" sentence. Anyone know?
*I don't understand the talk about skipping a trial for the remaining victims. Sure it will be expensive, but it seems to be a huge assumption that Pickton killed them all? Maybe evidence will point to accomplices, who have not been identified or charged so far. What kind of closure does foregoing a trial give to the families of the victims? And again, if the 20 or so remaining victims were white middleclass businessmen, would there be talk of skipping a trial?

Posted December 9, 2007 02:49 PM

Justice served. No.
I cannot see how any jury would have issues on finding him guilty of planning these murders. He admitted he wanted a body count of 50 and was caught before he could reach that.
It is 'Canadian justice'. People like this deserve capital punishment.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:48 PM

I think some readers are missing the point - the simple fact that Pickton was found guilty will mean that he will never see freedom again. First or second degree murder makes no difference - either way, he'll be given LIFE in prison with a minimum period before he can APPLY for parole (which, in his case, he will never be granted). Life for Pickton WILL mean the rest of his natural life in jail... the fact the jury came back with a verdict of second-degree murder makes no difference (although, arguably, it may show that there is a need to evaluate whether there ought to be the option for trial by jury in such lengthy and complicated cases as this one).

Posted December 9, 2007 02:48 PM

I don't believe justice has been served, especially since Pickton committed not one, but according to the jury themselves, at least six murders. The lack of consecutive sentencing in this country is a serious miscarriage of justice; if Pickton only killed one of the women, let alone the dozens he is suspected of, he would have recieved the exact same sentence. How is that fair to the victims and their families?

Posted December 9, 2007 02:47 PM

Good Verdict: The Crown must at least prove premeditation AT LEAST ONCE. If they could have proven a single instance OF PREMEDITATION, then Pickton would have been convicted for 6 counts of first degree murder. In this case the crown didn't have any evidence to prove that a single murder was premeditated. The mere accusation of 5 other murders, also without evidence of premeditation, DOES NOT CONSTITUTE EVIDENCE of premeditation.

Anyway the court will probably say no possibility of parole for 22 years or something. So the difference between first degree and 2nd degree here is almost trifling. And I doubt he is going to get parole EVER.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:46 PM

while I am appalled that a man could commit 6 violent murders even have a slight chance of parole in 10 years, the second trial will also add to his sentence. The deaths of these women (I'm sure they were all beautiful, wonderful, imperfect, and troubled human beings deserving of love and support and help - not violent deaths, having worked in the DTES myself after 2002) have at the very least finally been accounted for. We can all only hope that this marks a radical shift in the treatment of those still remaining in that life. Further, I hope this does not get the RCMP off the hook for continuing to find and charge all those who aided and abbetted this particular monster, nor allow them to discontinue to search for answers for the remaining missing women. Justice may not yet be served, but lets all pray it will be in the end.

I find that 6 second degree murder charges shows Picton to be even more dangerous than had he premeditated the murders. If he had planned them all before the moment, he may have some small chance of rehabilitation as a human being. But knowing that this man snaps at any moment and brutally and irrationally kills another at the least sign of anger, or paranoia, or upset, is so uncontrollable it is truly terrifying. He will never be the least bit able to rationally control himself, and should be declared a dangerous offender at the first opportunity. He is truly a monster and uncontrollable. There were many occasions where he brought women home and did not kill them, but from what I understand that he would just snap and have no control over his drug- and psychosis-induced rage.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:45 PM

I do not believe that justice has been served, because the trial wasted over $100 million of tax payer money, and there are more indictments against him that haven't even been tried in the court. This is very expensive. Why not just hang him?

Posted December 9, 2007 02:37 PM

There seems to be more people who ought to be brought to trial so Justice still has her work cut out for her. As far as Willie himself is concerned, I think we should throw a rope into his jail cell, let him send himself to Hell and be done with him.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:37 PM

The second degree murder charge speaks to the jury's belief that there were other people involved (specifically, Pickton's domineering brother). I get the sense that the jury believed him guilty of killing those women, but that someone else was the more active member. The crown should take this as a clear urging to keep working to link the brother to these crimes.

Regardless, Pickton will never again walk the streets. I'm not sure what people are worked up about: he will die in prison.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:35 PM

The man should be put to the Death Penalty.

Thank you .

Posted December 9, 2007 02:33 PM

After reading the 45 previous posts, I believe we should do away with the Senate and the Liberals and reinstate the death penalty.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:33 PM

What I don't understand is how you can be convicted of multiple counts of second degree murder. Obviously there was some premeditation and they should have been able to convict with first degree.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:30 PM

Hmm, both Latimer and Pickton, convicted of 2nd degree murder...something is not right.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:28 PM

did Willie pull the trigger? We don't know 100% for sure. Did he act alone- we don't know. Was he involved in their death - absolutely. Did he dismember their bodies after they were dead - circumstancial evidence would say yes. But did he pull the trigger - the crown did not prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt. Which would we rather have 6 convictions that will not be questioned or an appeal. Thank goodness they could convict as second degree charges with similar consequences. I agree with everyone here, Willie will never see parole if he survives in jail long enough to even ask.

I am horrified to learn that our beloved Senate is sitting on the legislation to allow concurrent sentencing.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:26 PM

When are Canadians going to demand a 'legal system', instead of the money making 'legal industry' it is? Consider the effort and cost of getting this to trial. Other than a lawyer, who is satisified to turn the decision over to 12 of our citizens? Are they trained in any aspects of law? Why 12 people? It's difficult to get that many people to agree on anything. Try 3 trained elected jurrors.
This trial raised more questions than it answered. Why was Dave Pickton never called?

Posted December 9, 2007 02:26 PM

No ruling in Canada would be sufficient in sentencing this despicable monster.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:22 PM

I don't believe that justice was served because it is impossible to believe that premeditation was not involved and therefore a first degree murder charge. Justice was not served because delays in investigating and charging Pickton not only allowed more murders to occur it also likely contributed to the evidence collection and the case presented by the crown around a first degree murder charge. Justice is never served by laws that set consecutive sentences for such horrific crimes. Justice will be served when already marginalized women are treated with dignity and respect by law enforcement and when the punishment fits the crime. There is much to learn for law enforcement and legislators from the deaths of the victims of Pickton.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:22 PM

I find it hard to believe that there are no accessories to these murders. But in the case of Robert Picton I do think that justice been served.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:16 PM

I do not think justice will be served until and unless Pickton is sentenced to 10 years on EACH count, and the sentences are consecutive, not concurrent. No mandatory supervision, no parole
and no appeal!

Posted December 9, 2007 02:15 PM

In answer to Ree, in Canada, 'life' means life. If a murderer doesn't get parole he dies in jail. And Pickton's not going to get parole.

The only shoddy bit of this is the failure of the jury to find that the murders were planned. How on earth could the jury come back with a finding that he killed 6 prostitutes without planning any of the murders? It's absurd.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:06 PM

No. A 25 year "life" sentence for taking 6 lives? Sounds more like Canadian compromise, not justice.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:05 PM

I followed this trial as closely as I could in the media and I'm still not sure if these women were actually murdered or simply overdosed. But the one thing I just can't get my head around is the stagging cost of this whole thing, I believe it's up somwhere around $150 million. So based on that I must say no this is not justice because as a taxpayer I feel like I've been robbed.
Somebody had to be held accoutable and Willie was the most likely candidate. The question now is will there be pointless second trial?

Posted December 9, 2007 02:04 PM

Once more another killer convicted of murder gets less than he deserves. It is becomeing evident that there is only justice for the people who commit the crimes.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:03 PM

So much for canadian justice. This animal lured women to there deaths, so that makes it premeditated murder and it should have been first degree murder. To bad this had not happened in Oklahoma, because he would have been on death row by now.

Posted December 9, 2007 02:02 PM

This is another example of Canadian justice gone wrong. Pickton should be handed a separate prison sentence for each murder. That would mean a total of 60 years before parole eligibility. The Canadian justice system is in complete disrepair by treating one murder the same as multiple murders.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:58 PM

hopefully he will never be allowed to go free?

Posted December 9, 2007 01:53 PM

No punishment that is sanctioned by Canadian law is sufficient

Posted December 9, 2007 01:52 PM

Justice can only be served when multiple killers are forced to serve the sentences for the consecutively.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:50 PM

First of all in this case it may never be possible for true justice to occur. Too much has not been available for the police, prosecutors and the jury to examine. Did others help plan, execute and assist the cover up in these acts? Did any of the human flesh find its way onto the shelves of the meat market served by this slaughter house? And how much evidence has there been not shown to the judge and jury beyond that which has been ruled inadmissable? I find it highly unlikely that this near cretin low life could plan, execute, and clean up/cover up this situation for as long as it did carry on. There had to be others involved. Now having said that, it is probably the most difficult investigation these officers have/will ever been involved in. Some of the constraints that we must place on police in a democratic society necessarily preclude the gathering of evidence required for a complete understanding of the missing details and motive(s). I hope this investigation is not over, and that inspite of cost, and appeals, etc. that they continue to delve into who else was in on and co-managed this horrendous operation. What also was missing in this deliberation was the option to declare him guilty of criminal insanity. The Judge should have the option of a sentence of life without parole ever in an insane asylum. Then medicare him with sodium pentathol for further interrogation!

Posted December 9, 2007 01:50 PM

Justice will be served when the officials and authorities finally look after the venerable or those living near the margin of the society. Yes, the monster has been caught and punished. But what happens to those fell asleep and ignored the monster?

Posted December 9, 2007 01:47 PM

No, justice was not served. He must have planned these murders. Therefore he should have been charged with first degree murder.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:47 PM

How many people does one have to murder to receive first degree murder? Were most of them not prostitutes, would the verdict have been different? This is totally ludicrous: possible parole after ten years plus one day - makes me ashamed to be a Canadian!

Posted December 9, 2007 01:46 PM

The answer to the question, undoubtably, is "yes", justice has been served, whether or not one agrees with the verdict, and having not been in the courtroom for the months that the jury was, I am not qualified to dispute their findings. However, having served on two juries in B.C., cases involving manslaughter and fraud, I strongly believe our system works. We are well-served by the process. What would make it work better is paying the jury members realistically, just like every other officer of the court.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:45 PM

The jury apparently was bamboozled by the defence’s double-speak – as they say “something” baffles brains. Frankly, the jury should be shamefaced. Apparently, victims’ rights are secondary to those of the criminal; this is not the first time we have witnessed it, nor shall it be the last.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:44 PM

It just shows how our system is sooo onside with the criminals..He should have been found guilty of first degree murder, but our injustice system prevents that verdict. The jury did the right thing under our present system..We MUST work toward reform in our system..Victims first...

Posted December 9, 2007 01:43 PM

Although I believe Robert Pickton was most certainly involved in the murders, I don't believe that one person acting alone could be responsible for all these deaths. There were people who suspected, people who saw things, people who knew things. And there must have been people close to Robert Pickton who had more than suspicions, who allowed him to continue by their inaction or their direct involvement. Who are these people and to what extent were they involved? How could more than fifty women be murdered before the alarm was sounded? Where were the police during this time? How could something like this go on for years without police being involved? Not only was this a complete failure of law enforcement over the period of time it took to sound the alarm, it's now a failure of the legal system for focusing all efforts on a conviction of Robert Pickton.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:41 PM

Not having been present at the trial, how can one decide? Besides, what is just punishment for the death of so many? I agree with Ben, however, that others must have been involved.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:39 PM

I am not sure exactly what the differences are between first and second degree murder. Am I correct in my belief that first degree murder is premeditated, but second degree is not? If so, how can he kill 6 women and each of the murders be non-premeditated? After the first or second murder, wouldn't common sense indicate that he has some idea that he is going to kill these women? Would the jury have us believe that every time he brings a woman back to his pig farm he is doing so without the intention of killing her, but that he suddenly changes his mind at the last second (each time) and kills her without premeditation? This is ludicrous on the very face of it. Is there a person with actual legal practice who can enlighten me?

Posted December 9, 2007 01:38 PM

I thought second dregree murder convictions were for people who did not intend to kill their victim ? I will never understand the legal system. If the jury did not intend to convict of first degree murder then there should not have been an option of a lesser charge as it would appear from all reports that these girls were butchered not just killed so therefore a first degree murder conviction would be more in line with the crime.. He did not do it just once he did it time after time. The jury are obviously convinced that he did kill these girls so why the lesser charge ??

Posted December 9, 2007 01:35 PM

I have followed this trial intensley from the start! Given the difficulties experienced in the instructions from the Bench the jurors have done a credible job, given the circumstances.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:34 PM

I remember when the police had a hard time believing that the missing women had been murdered and refused to do serious investigations as most of the women involved were either drug users or prostitutes or a combination so Justice has been a long delayed thing. Second degree murder are expedient and may lead to his parole earlier than first degree murder convictions would. Six second degree murder convictions is better than nothing but an expedience. Has justice been done? a semblance has but Robert Picton's treatment will be better than the treatment that he accorded the women that he murdered. I think that the jurors should all be praised for what they have done as exposure to the details of this case must have been horrific. I think that the government should award all the jurors extra compensation for their work in this case. They have truly earned it.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:33 PM

Were the jurours all drunk or on dope? First degree murder should be the sentence.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:24 PM

Ree, with the number of convictions, Pickton won't see the light of day in freedom for the rest of his life, so convictions in the first or second degree won't matter in the outcome.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:22 PM

How can he not be guilty of 1st degree murder on 6 women. Maybe the first was an accident but the rest where oviously planned. He should get life without parole and made to spend it with the other inmates. Maybe they will admisiter the proper punishment.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:21 PM

Why only second degree murder? Justice had NOT been served! Sadly!

Posted December 9, 2007 01:20 PM

No.It was premeditated thus first degree.This is why I do not agree with the jury system:leaving decisions of this importance with twelve persons who are not smart enough to get out of jury duty.Give me a break.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:18 PM

I'm totally confused. In this case, wouldn't the distinction between first- and second-degree murder be whether the murder was planned and deliberate?

How can six independent murders committed over the course of 2-5 years not be planned and deliberate?

Some analysis of this verdict would be most appreciated.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:14 PM

I do not think justice has been served.Is anyone to believe that this monster didn't plan each and every one of these poor women's deaths? Then he carried out those plans and has not shown one ounce of remorse. Maybe in his next trial he'll get what he deserves.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:13 PM

The only way that this can come out right now is if the sentencing is consecutive. If ever there was a time for the powers that be to try and offer this creature a deal to find out who else was envolved it is this case. I do not believe for one second that he was the only one envolved.
Pete.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:12 PM

Pickton killed each of these women, chopped them up and fed them to the pigs, wouldn't this be considered "planned"?
My opinion is that he should have been charged with first degree murder!!!

Posted December 9, 2007 01:11 PM

BTW, I've often wondered how many BC residents ate pork from Robert Pickton's farm. You never hear anything about that, do you. No, I guess certains news stories are better let untold.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:08 PM

With that many deaths and more to be addressed, I was hoping for a first degree verdict. I hope the jurors will recommend the maximum sentence they are allowed.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:07 PM

I can understand a 2nd degree conviction on the first one (chronologically) and 1st degree on the rest. I can't understand 6 2nd degree convictions, though. I know that it's often difficult for the crown to prove intent on ONE charge, but you kill 5 others and not at the same time, there's no way they were 'heat of the moment' deaths, there had to have been intent. Very odd indeed. I'd like to hear the judge's instructions to the jury on this.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:07 PM

Justice seemed to be very odd in this case.

I can understand 6 1st degree convictions or a 2nd degree conviction on the first one (chronologically) and 1st degree on the rest. I can't understand 6 2nd degree convictions, though. I know that it's often difficult for the crown to prove intent on ONE charge, but you kill 5 others and not at the same time, there's no way they were 'heat of the moment' deaths, there had to have been intent. Very odd indeed. I'd like to hear the judge's instructions to the jury on this.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:07 PM

In response to Ree, the mandatory sentence for murder (1st or 2nd degree) is life in prison. The number only applies to the minimum number of years that must be served before the person is eligible to APPLY for parole.

Rest assured that there is no way that Pickton will ever be released. Period.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:07 PM

He will be sentenced to life in prison. He will be eligible for parole in as early as ten years. However, simply being eligible for parole after ten years does not mean that he will be granted parole. There is only one life sentence in Canada, no matter how many people are murdered by the convicted killer. The House of Commons passed a law to provide for consecutive sentencing for multiple murders several years ago. Unfortunately, the Liberal dominated Senate refused to pass the law and the law was never enacted. The fact that this mass murderer will only receive one life sentence is on the hands of each Senator who refused to vote for consecutive sentences for multiple murderers.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:07 PM

Now declear him a dangerous offender. Try him on the remaining charges and throw away the key.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:06 PM

Well, some sort of justice has been served. There are still more tragic deaths to be accounted for, so don't break out the party hats yet.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:05 PM

Thus far, justice has been served to its fullest potential, despite the not guilty verdicts on the first-degree murder counts. The real question lies with the sentencing--if he is indeed sentenced to 25 years without parole (total, I might add) that means he won't be eligible for parole until he is 83 years old, should he survive that long. Indeed, regardless of the verdict in the second trial on the other 20 murders, and assuming he is convicted in that trial regardless of whether that sentence will be served concurrently or consecutively to the one from this trial, the fact remains that if the jury and judge rule that he is not eligible for parole until he has served 20-25 years, it is very unlikely that Mr. Pickton will ever again leave prison except in a casket. I believe that is true justice in this case.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:04 PM

Justice has been served, finally.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:03 PM

Unfortunately they cannot submit him to the same torments he inflicted on these six women or the other twenty plus that he will never stand trial for.Capital punishment was not all bad and would have fit in this case!!

Posted December 9, 2007 01:02 PM

I find it shocking to admit this, but I feel that only the death penalty would do to serve justice in this case.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:02 PM

My thanks goes to the jury. Emotionally, I would have liked to see guilty of first degree but based on the conviction criteria and the rules of reasonable doubt, I can understand why they have convicted of the lesser charge. I think everyone, including the jury was doing their best to avoid an appeal or mistrial.

The jury have endured hell for the past 10 months and I am sure if the opportunity to convict of first degree would have been there - they would have taken it.

My hope is now that the system will give Mr. Pickton concurrent sentences and we never, ever hear his name again. More important, I hope and pray the families of the victims can finally find peace.

Posted December 9, 2007 01:01 PM

right and proper
justice served

Posted December 9, 2007 12:57 PM

Justice Has Been Awarded

Posted December 9, 2007 12:55 PM

I'm confused by the sentence. Is he looking at 10-25 years total for all six killings or 10-25 for each murder?

Posted December 9, 2007 12:51 PM

probably. but surely theres others who deserved at the very least to be charged as accesories after the fact... how could no-one else have known?

Posted December 9, 2007 12:50 PM